|
On March 04 2009 10:53 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 10:50 Caller wrote:On March 04 2009 10:49 Ace wrote:
Remember all the town members get their roles before the mayor election.
What happens if the Mayor accidentally chooses a DT or Medic as a bodyguard? What's wrong with that? They would just get BG powers in addition to being a DT/Medic. So if they die it'd count as a dead BG and DT/Medic. :/ Innocent Mayor accidentally chooses a DT as bodyguard. DT figures out Mayor is legit by role checking his original role. The Mayor doesn't have to guess about the DT being legit because his role check is true and he's a bodyguard. That's pretty bad don't you think? Or what happens if the Mayor is scum? The DT is fucked because what can he say? His death while somewhat noble also fucks over a possibly innocent pardoner. Bodyguards are plain townies for a reason. Mayor shouldn't ever get to choose his bodyguards especially if what you guys are saying is to avoid an inner circle - that's just begging for one to happen.
First of all, Mayor could be GF. So DT would probably not say anything if its town.
Second of all, if mayor is scum, pardonner would be fucked anyways.
And what's to stop a non-BG DT from doing this, or for a mafia to fake DT to Mayor?
|
On March 04 2009 10:58 Ace wrote:
I dont understand why you would want fake deaths and PM'd clues...
fake deaths discourage townies and vigis from targetting those if they're mafia. Likewise, fake deaths can be used to hide blues from mafia. The only guaranteed sign of life is if people can talk (thus talking would be strictly enforced). PMd clues force townies to participate, otherwise not all of the possible information is available which screws over town. And Pmd clues allow mafia to BS shit.
|
On March 04 2009 10:58 Ace wrote:
I dont understand why you would want fake deaths and PM'd clues...
Yeah I'm not sold on fake deaths yet. But I think PMed clues will force people to talk about the clues more and keep even greens logging in to discuss and check their inbox. I think it will also get mafia talking and actually having to take risks to try to incriminate others. I think we can still have a day post while requiring cooperation among the town to put together the full picture.
|
On March 04 2009 10:59 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 10:53 Ace wrote:On March 04 2009 10:50 Caller wrote:On March 04 2009 10:49 Ace wrote:
Remember all the town members get their roles before the mayor election.
What happens if the Mayor accidentally chooses a DT or Medic as a bodyguard? What's wrong with that? They would just get BG powers in addition to being a DT/Medic. So if they die it'd count as a dead BG and DT/Medic. :/ Innocent Mayor accidentally chooses a DT as bodyguard. DT figures out Mayor is legit by role checking his original role. The Mayor doesn't have to guess about the DT being legit because his role check is true and he's a bodyguard. That's pretty bad don't you think? Or what happens if the Mayor is scum? The DT is fucked because what can he say? His death while somewhat noble also fucks over a possibly innocent pardoner. Bodyguards are plain townies for a reason. Mayor shouldn't ever get to choose his bodyguards especially if what you guys are saying is to avoid an inner circle - that's just begging for one to happen. Innocent mayor could just as easily choose a mafia BG who then fakes being a DT by getting lucky saying the Mayor's original role. If mayor is scum he can leak it to some townie who earns his trust.
Why would a mafia bg even fake being a blue? That would just be incredibly stupid.
|
On March 04 2009 11:02 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 10:59 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On March 04 2009 10:53 Ace wrote:On March 04 2009 10:50 Caller wrote:On March 04 2009 10:49 Ace wrote:
Remember all the town members get their roles before the mayor election.
What happens if the Mayor accidentally chooses a DT or Medic as a bodyguard? What's wrong with that? They would just get BG powers in addition to being a DT/Medic. So if they die it'd count as a dead BG and DT/Medic. :/ Innocent Mayor accidentally chooses a DT as bodyguard. DT figures out Mayor is legit by role checking his original role. The Mayor doesn't have to guess about the DT being legit because his role check is true and he's a bodyguard. That's pretty bad don't you think? Or what happens if the Mayor is scum? The DT is fucked because what can he say? His death while somewhat noble also fucks over a possibly innocent pardoner. Bodyguards are plain townies for a reason. Mayor shouldn't ever get to choose his bodyguards especially if what you guys are saying is to avoid an inner circle - that's just begging for one to happen. Innocent mayor could just as easily choose a mafia BG who then fakes being a DT by getting lucky saying the Mayor's original role. If mayor is scum he can leak it to some townie who earns his trust. Why would a mafia bg even fake being a blue? That would just be incredibly stupid.
LOL MANDALOR
|
On March 04 2009 10:59 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 10:53 Ace wrote:On March 04 2009 10:50 Caller wrote:On March 04 2009 10:49 Ace wrote:
Remember all the town members get their roles before the mayor election.
What happens if the Mayor accidentally chooses a DT or Medic as a bodyguard? What's wrong with that? They would just get BG powers in addition to being a DT/Medic. So if they die it'd count as a dead BG and DT/Medic. :/ Innocent Mayor accidentally chooses a DT as bodyguard. DT figures out Mayor is legit by role checking his original role. The Mayor doesn't have to guess about the DT being legit because his role check is true and he's a bodyguard. That's pretty bad don't you think? Or what happens if the Mayor is scum? The DT is fucked because what can he say? His death while somewhat noble also fucks over a possibly innocent pardoner. Bodyguards are plain townies for a reason. Mayor shouldn't ever get to choose his bodyguards especially if what you guys are saying is to avoid an inner circle - that's just begging for one to happen. First of all, Mayor could be GF. So DT would probably not say anything if its town. Second of all, if mayor is scum, pardonner would be fucked anyways. And what's to stop a non-BG DT from doing this, or for a mafia to fake DT to Mayor?
1.) If the Mayor is GF and the DT figures it out why would he not say anything?
2.) If the Mayor is scum the Pardoner is not fucked. If all the Mayors bodyguards start dying off SURELY you don't think the town is gonna sit around and be like oh that's just normal.
3.) Why oh why would a mafia bodyguard FAKE being a DT? That is making no sense at all.
|
On March 04 2009 11:01 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 10:58 Ace wrote:
I dont understand why you would want fake deaths and PM'd clues...
fake deaths discourage townies and vigis from targetting those if they're mafia. Likewise, fake deaths can be used to hide blues from mafia. The only guaranteed sign of life is if people can talk (thus talking would be strictly enforced). PMd clues force townies to participate, otherwise not all of the possible information is available which screws over town. And Pmd clues allow mafia to BS shit.
...
why would you want to hide blues from mafia and allow mafia to directly effect a critical part of the game they shouldn't have control over?
|
Your replies make me smile Ace 
|
Caller, my biggest problem with your idea is just that it is too fancy. What we need right now is a very simple game. Look at this last game: the most experienced player the mafia had was ulszz.
From: Teejing
Subject: Re: mafia 4 curiosity
Date: 3/4/09 09:21
nah,we were 100% beginners xD. I had to PM some guys myself to get some information myself. So yea, ommunication was not existence.
Your idea might be fun to play with. However, I don't think it is appropriate for the skill level we have right now.
Btw, I am specifically referring to the no death reveal.
|
On March 04 2009 11:05 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 11:01 Caller wrote:On March 04 2009 10:58 Ace wrote:
I dont understand why you would want fake deaths and PM'd clues...
fake deaths discourage townies and vigis from targetting those if they're mafia. Likewise, fake deaths can be used to hide blues from mafia. The only guaranteed sign of life is if people can talk (thus talking would be strictly enforced). PMd clues force townies to participate, otherwise not all of the possible information is available which screws over town. And Pmd clues allow mafia to BS shit. ... why would you want to hide blues from mafia and allow mafia to directly effect a critical part of the game they shouldn't have control over?
Hide blues from mafia like this:
ex. It's night 2. Instead of using both vigilante hits, you pretend to use both and actually use one.
One of the vigilante hits actually kills tim. Town decides to "fake" hit Jim.
Bob reports a clue that says that Jim, a DT, was killed, and that his role was townie. Another one says that Tim, a townie, was killed.
Mafia can choose to waste hits on them. But if they're actually dead, the hit is wasted, and so they may not bother targetting them. In the meantime, Jim is happily using all of his role and cluechecks while keeping dl and giving the info to a trustworthy person.
Likewise, fake death mafia: Mafia fakes a death. Mafia member claims Rob the townie (actually mafia)is dead. That person is unlikely to be targetted by DTs, Vigs, or lynch votes. Thus, he can maintain KP while at the same time have an excuse for inactivity. However, the backlash is if initial mafia is revealed or compromised, then Rob is in deep shit.
|
Sydney2287 Posts
On March 04 2009 10:51 Ver wrote:
Basically the main thing we need to address is: Mayor/Pardonner or no offices. Let's decide this first, since everything else derives from this decision. I originally wanted no offices since it promoted an inner circle but with godfather + millers + unknown alliegances of BGs (I think that blues shouldn't be BG though yes? Otherwise killing them is too devastating), I am starting to like this a lot.
Ok here's a poll:
Poll: Ellected Offices?
(Vote): Yes (Mayor/Pardoner)
(Vote): No
I didn't include Mayor/Executioner because the goal here should be to return to vanilla for a bit.
If we have offices I think that the people that should be eligible for bodyguards would be townies, mafia (Not sure about godfather) and millers. For most of the reasons that have been stated in the thread so far.
|
On March 04 2009 11:04 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 10:59 Caller wrote:On March 04 2009 10:53 Ace wrote:On March 04 2009 10:50 Caller wrote:On March 04 2009 10:49 Ace wrote:
Remember all the town members get their roles before the mayor election.
What happens if the Mayor accidentally chooses a DT or Medic as a bodyguard? What's wrong with that? They would just get BG powers in addition to being a DT/Medic. So if they die it'd count as a dead BG and DT/Medic. :/ Innocent Mayor accidentally chooses a DT as bodyguard. DT figures out Mayor is legit by role checking his original role. The Mayor doesn't have to guess about the DT being legit because his role check is true and he's a bodyguard. That's pretty bad don't you think? Or what happens if the Mayor is scum? The DT is fucked because what can he say? His death while somewhat noble also fucks over a possibly innocent pardoner. Bodyguards are plain townies for a reason. Mayor shouldn't ever get to choose his bodyguards especially if what you guys are saying is to avoid an inner circle - that's just begging for one to happen. First of all, Mayor could be GF. So DT would probably not say anything if its town. Second of all, if mayor is scum, pardonner would be fucked anyways. And what's to stop a non-BG DT from doing this, or for a mafia to fake DT to Mayor? 1.) If the Mayor is GF and the DT figures it out why would he not say anything? 2.) If the Mayor is scum the Pardoner is not fucked. If all the Mayors bodyguards start dying off SURELY you don't think the town is gonna sit around and be like oh that's just normal. 3.) Why oh why would a mafia bodyguard FAKE being a DT? That is making no sense at all.
Why would a regular mafia fake being a DT?
How would the DT figure out if the Mayor is GF or Miller?
If DT discovers Mayor is legit scum, how is Pardonner fucked?
|
And the executioner is far too strong. Say the mayor is town but the executioner is mafia. This is what I would do as the executioner: wait for the day 1 post. "I vote for Mayor" "I close the voting"
Sure I'll be lynched on day 2. However, I wasted a lynch, removed all possibility of double lynch, and screwed over the town's organization.
|
On March 04 2009 11:09 Qatol wrote:
Caller, my biggest problem with your idea is just that it is too fancy. What we need right now is a very simple game. Look at this last game: the most experienced player the mafia had was ulszz.
From: Teejing
Subject: Re: mafia 4 curiosity
Date: 3/4/09 09:21
nah,we were 100% beginners xD. I had to PM some guys myself to get some information myself. So yea, ommunication was not existence.
Your idea might be fun to play with. However, I don't think it is appropriate for the skill level we have right now.
Btw, I am specifically referring to the no death reveal.
Again, this new skill level will put everybody on an equal footing. Everybody has not played with this new type before. That means old strategies won't work and new ideas may. Thus, newbs and experts are on a more equal footing than just everybody around waiting for BC and Ace and Mikeymoo and Camlito and all the other good players to spread their gospel. It also prevents Folca moments as people are on new footing, this gives them a chance to say something without being dismissed as naive or worse yet, mafia.
|
On March 04 2009 11:13 Qatol wrote:
And the executioner is far too strong. Say the mayor is town but the executioner is mafia. This is what I would do as the executioner: wait for the day 1 post. "I vote for Mayor" "I close the voting"
Sure I'll be lynched on day 2. However, I wasted a lynch, removed all possibility of double lynch, and screwed over the town's organization.
Yeah executioner is probably op, but that can be fixed.
|
On March 04 2009 11:11 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 11:04 Ace wrote:On March 04 2009 10:59 Caller wrote:On March 04 2009 10:53 Ace wrote:On March 04 2009 10:50 Caller wrote:On March 04 2009 10:49 Ace wrote:
Remember all the town members get their roles before the mayor election.
What happens if the Mayor accidentally chooses a DT or Medic as a bodyguard? What's wrong with that? They would just get BG powers in addition to being a DT/Medic. So if they die it'd count as a dead BG and DT/Medic. :/ Innocent Mayor accidentally chooses a DT as bodyguard. DT figures out Mayor is legit by role checking his original role. The Mayor doesn't have to guess about the DT being legit because his role check is true and he's a bodyguard. That's pretty bad don't you think? Or what happens if the Mayor is scum? The DT is fucked because what can he say? His death while somewhat noble also fucks over a possibly innocent pardoner. Bodyguards are plain townies for a reason. Mayor shouldn't ever get to choose his bodyguards especially if what you guys are saying is to avoid an inner circle - that's just begging for one to happen. First of all, Mayor could be GF. So DT would probably not say anything if its town. Second of all, if mayor is scum, pardonner would be fucked anyways. And what's to stop a non-BG DT from doing this, or for a mafia to fake DT to Mayor? 1.) If the Mayor is GF and the DT figures it out why would he not say anything? 2.) If the Mayor is scum the Pardoner is not fucked. If all the Mayors bodyguards start dying off SURELY you don't think the town is gonna sit around and be like oh that's just normal. 3.) Why oh why would a mafia bodyguard FAKE being a DT? That is making no sense at all. Why would a regular mafia fake being a DT? How would the DT figure out if the Mayor is GF or Miller? If DT discovers Mayor is legit scum, how is Pardonner fucked?
1.)This isn't a regular mafia. This is a mafia that just happened to be selected to be a bodyguard. If he fakes being any blue, especially a DT and he guesses wrong that's just instant GG for him. Even if he guesses right, now he has to keep guessing all game to prove he really is a DT. LOL?
The mafia would have to be crazy to even attempt this. There's a difference when you fake a DT as a regular mafia to a random townie because that townie can be killed if they catch on. You can't kill the mayor so easily. So it's just useless to even try it.
2.) clue check for GF. If it never works out the DT really doesn't care if it's a Miller because the Miller is on the town's side. Anything but Godfather = good.
3.)f the DT bodyguard discovers a scum mayor, he has to speak up. He will then die. When he dies, thats -1 bodyguard which also makes the Pardoner more vulnerable.
|
A Mayor (elected). Has double lynch power and double votes.
Pardoner: gets two pardons
4 Bodyguards for the above. Chosen at random from green townies , millers, and mafia (including GF)
2 Detectives: Have infinite cluechecks (once per day) and either 3 role checks or one votecheck.
4 Veterans: Have two lives and get a clue upon taking the first hit.
3 Medics: May protect someone once per night. Get a clue upon protecting someone.
2 Vigilantes May kill one per night, starting night 2.
2 Millers: Show up as mafia, don't know it
23 Townies
All town members may stumble upon a random clue each day (chance of 1/3).
10 Mafia. KP = Mafia/2 rounded up.
1 Of them is GF that shows up as townie
I think deaths should be announced so it is not too complicated but clues about the perpetrators will be PMed to random greens. There will still be a day post with clues but the greens will be rewarded with morsels for staying in the game and contributing. Also gives mafia some leeway to plant stuff.
|
On March 04 2009 11:27 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2009 11:11 Caller wrote:On March 04 2009 11:04 Ace wrote:On March 04 2009 10:59 Caller wrote:On March 04 2009 10:53 Ace wrote:On March 04 2009 10:50 Caller wrote:On March 04 2009 10:49 Ace wrote:
Remember all the town members get their roles before the mayor election.
What happens if the Mayor accidentally chooses a DT or Medic as a bodyguard? What's wrong with that? They would just get BG powers in addition to being a DT/Medic. So if they die it'd count as a dead BG and DT/Medic. :/ Innocent Mayor accidentally chooses a DT as bodyguard. DT figures out Mayor is legit by role checking his original role. The Mayor doesn't have to guess about the DT being legit because his role check is true and he's a bodyguard. That's pretty bad don't you think? Or what happens if the Mayor is scum? The DT is fucked because what can he say? His death while somewhat noble also fucks over a possibly innocent pardoner. Bodyguards are plain townies for a reason. Mayor shouldn't ever get to choose his bodyguards especially if what you guys are saying is to avoid an inner circle - that's just begging for one to happen. First of all, Mayor could be GF. So DT would probably not say anything if its town. Second of all, if mayor is scum, pardonner would be fucked anyways. And what's to stop a non-BG DT from doing this, or for a mafia to fake DT to Mayor? 1.) If the Mayor is GF and the DT figures it out why would he not say anything? 2.) If the Mayor is scum the Pardoner is not fucked. If all the Mayors bodyguards start dying off SURELY you don't think the town is gonna sit around and be like oh that's just normal. 3.) Why oh why would a mafia bodyguard FAKE being a DT? That is making no sense at all. Why would a regular mafia fake being a DT? How would the DT figure out if the Mayor is GF or Miller? If DT discovers Mayor is legit scum, how is Pardonner fucked? 1.)This isn't a regular mafia. This is a mafia that just happened to be selected to be a bodyguard. If he fakes being any blue, especially a DT and he guesses wrong that's just instant GG for him. Even if he guesses right, now he has to keep guessing all game to prove he really is a DT. LOL? The mafia would have to be crazy to even attempt this. There's a difference when you fake a DT as a regular mafia to a random townie because that townie can be killed if they catch on. You can't kill the mayor so easily. So it's just useless to even try it. 2.) clue check for GF. If it never works out the DT really doesn't care if it's a Miller because the Miller is on the town's side. Anything but Godfather = good. 3.)f the DT bodyguard discovers a scum mayor, he has to speak up. He will then die. When he dies, thats -1 bodyguard which also makes the Pardoner more vulnerable.
1) Even if a DT is BG and checks mayor and guesses correctly, how would this be different from a DT that isn't a BG?
2)the DT sees Miller as mafia and sees GF as w/e GF wants to be. There will be doubt!
3) If Mayor is scum, and town finds out in anyway, pardonner is in trouble, regardless of the cause.
|
o wait, Ver has his Millers show up as Mafia. I didn't realize that.
So to change part 2 of my previous answer:
Even if the DT investigates the Mayor and figures him as mafia(but he is really the Miller) then he dies anyway. He flips town, o well. You lose double lynches and stuff but you had to take a risk that you don't have a Mafia Mayor. Either way in this situation as the DT you have to speak up.
|
On March 04 2009 11:31 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
A Mayor (elected). Has double lynch power and double votes.
Pardoner: gets two pardons
4 Bodyguards for the above. Chosen at random from green townies , millers, and mafia (including GF)
2 Detectives: Have infinite cluechecks (once per day) and either 3 role checks or one votecheck.
4 Veterans: Have two lives and get a clue upon taking the first hit.
3 Medics: May protect someone once per night. Get a clue upon protecting someone.
2 Vigilantes May kill one per night, starting night 2.
2 Millers: Show up as mafia, don't know it
23 Townies
All town members may stumble upon a random clue each day (chance of 1/3).
10 Mafia. KP = Mafia/2 rounded up.
1 Of them is GF that shows up as townie
I think deaths should be announced so it is not too complicated but clues about the perpetrators will be PMed to random greens. There will still be a day post with clues but the greens will be rewarded with morsels for staying in the game and contributing. Also gives mafia some leeway to plant stuff.
How would there be leeway? With townies getting clues about all the dead, mafia has little room to say something that may be contradictory to what townie said.
Still I think it's better. Run with it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
