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On March 06 2009 05:39 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 03:16 Qatol wrote:On March 06 2009 01:41 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On March 05 2009 23:28 Fishball wrote:On March 05 2009 20:45 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On March 05 2009 20:42 Scaramanga wrote:On March 05 2009 20:08 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
if you encourage smurfing pretty soon people are going to sign up with multiple accounts to try to fuck up the game / look cool Mods can see aka's, so they'll be able to know if theres multiple accounts for one person btw why would anyone want to fuck up the game, thats just stupid by those people I dunno I thought thats what fishball or whoever does? Or does he just go afk if he gets a green role? I love ignorance. Reminds me of the GLB thread. Well that's what question marks are for. Maybe you could enlighten me? Fishball generally joins the game and then messes around the whole game regardless of his role. He is somewhat active, but doesn't help pull off any plans. He also deliberately puts himself on voting lists that he thinks will be checked because it causes controversy around him. Anything you want to add fishball? I have joined every single Mafia game except for one since Chuiu made the first one. (Also including the failed Starcraft Mafia, made by somebody I don't remember who, but TL search should help) The only game I did not join was Caller's game, hosting right after BC's. First game - I was townie and I died early. Second game - I was townie again, then became Ace's Bodyguard, but was also killed off early. Third game - Townie, but Ace was Mafia and he killed me during the first Night cycle, dying early once again. Fourth game with Ace hosting - I was Mafia, I played my role well, but with people "infiltrating" IRC channels and worst yet, another Mafia member giving up the entire list of his family to the town, with the sole reason "I was bored", ruined the game. Fifth game, BC host - I was a Veteran. At this point, I think if you've been paying attention, you would have caught my posts regarding this game in recent threads already. In every single game, inactiveness of certain players have always played a critical role. This game was worse. Small details aside, this game mainly consisted two things: List checks and Inactivness. Inactive was what killed the town, and List checks was the only weapon the town had. Clue analysis did not work very well and was basically non existent. Ace was basically silenced for most of the game, and the town was doing crappy. After Spike, a townie, was lynched, I kept my eye closely on Mynock, who was suspicious to me. After I was proved townie, Ace did manage to send me a PM regarding a plan, before he was silenced again. Ace also added a "pass phrase" in order to communicate with people within the "inner circle". Mynock then approached me later, regarding another plan, and said there was no time for the pass phrase or something like that. Amberlight claimed vigilante publicly while Mynock have told me he was the vigilante himself. Even though I was then, a proved townie, information didn't match up. What that means, is basically they were keeping information from me, or they were mafia and lying. It turned out to be the former. You see, at this point after five Mafia games, with all the lame shit that have ruined previous games, I'm pretty much fed up by now. This is also one of the main reason I skipped Caller's game, to take a rest. Seventh game, Chuiu's most recent game. I was a Veteran. Game ended like in 1 Day/Night cycle. I've made a few posts the entire game. None of them were "trolling". I was busy the entire weekend, regarding issues with RL, have mentioned in the thread and BC also knows about it. I finally took time to catch up with 34 pages on Monday, read through the whole thing only to find out that the game had ended. If you must mark me as a troll, the only condition you (and others) could have done so is when regarding BC's game. I'm done repeating myself about this game already. Clearly no one is reading. I don't talk about any game information while I'm dead like Attackzerg, who doesn't shut up even being warned numerous times; I don't betray my own mafia family members; I don't "hack"; I'm not as poetic as Ocz; I don't photoshop PM's, even though there is a strict rule to NOT post role PM's in the first place, and I don't go inactive for most of the game. I have suggested numerous times to have open discussion regarding TL Mafia roles and rules setup. All I want is to be able to play a full game, without any of the factors listed above. I'm sure most of the people here are hoping for the same thing. So back to your original quote: "Fishball generally joins the game and then messes around the whole game regardless of his role."If you still think your statement still stands, I guess I'm a pretty hot troll.
Apparently I posted too hastily. I marked you as a troll because of BC's game. I never really noticed you doing much in any of the other games and "I have no alignment. I am neither mafia nor town" seems to stick out in my mind for some reason. About the pass phrase. There was a bad information error there. Ace sent the phrase to you, but I (and thus Mynock who was acting as my mouth at the time) never got it. We wanted to include you in the circle, but your PM indicated at least to me that you weren't interested. Hence the information hiding.
Btw, I honestly believed you about being busy and getting behind in chuiu's most recent game.
Regardless, you have my apologies
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On March 06 2009 05:39 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 03:16 Qatol wrote:On March 06 2009 01:41 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On March 05 2009 23:28 Fishball wrote:On March 05 2009 20:45 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On March 05 2009 20:42 Scaramanga wrote:On March 05 2009 20:08 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
if you encourage smurfing pretty soon people are going to sign up with multiple accounts to try to fuck up the game / look cool Mods can see aka's, so they'll be able to know if theres multiple accounts for one person btw why would anyone want to fuck up the game, thats just stupid by those people I dunno I thought thats what fishball or whoever does? Or does he just go afk if he gets a green role? I love ignorance. Reminds me of the GLB thread. Well that's what question marks are for. Maybe you could enlighten me? Fishball generally joins the game and then messes around the whole game regardless of his role. He is somewhat active, but doesn't help pull off any plans. He also deliberately puts himself on voting lists that he thinks will be checked because it causes controversy around him. Anything you want to add fishball? I have joined every single Mafia game except for one since Chuiu made the first one. (Also including the failed Starcraft Mafia, made by somebody I don't remember who, but TL search should help) The only game I did not join was Caller's game, hosting right after BC's. First game - I was townie and I died early. Second game - I was townie again, then became Ace's Bodyguard, but was also killed off early. Third game - Townie, but Ace was Mafia and he killed me during the first Night cycle, dying early once again. Fourth game with Ace hosting - I was Mafia, I played my role well, but with people "infiltrating" IRC channels and worst yet, another Mafia member giving up the entire list of his family to the town, with the sole reason "I was bored", ruined the game. Fifth game, BC host - I was a Veteran. At this point, I think if you've been paying attention, you would have caught my posts regarding this game in recent threads already. In every single game, inactiveness of certain players have always played a critical role. This game was worse. Small details aside, this game mainly consisted two things: List checks and Inactivness. Inactive was what killed the town, and List checks was the only weapon the town had. Clue analysis did not work very well and was basically non existent. Ace was basically silenced for most of the game, and the town was doing crappy. After Spike, a townie, was lynched, I kept my eye closely on Mynock, who was suspicious to me. After I was proved townie, Ace did manage to send me a PM regarding a plan, before he was silenced again. Ace also added a "pass phrase" in order to communicate with people within the "inner circle". Mynock then approached me later, regarding another plan, and said there was no time for the pass phrase or something like that. Amberlight claimed vigilante publicly while Mynock have told me he was the vigilante himself. Even though I was then, a proved townie, information didn't match up. What that means, is basically they were keeping information from me, or they were mafia and lying. It turned out to be the former. You see, at this point after five Mafia games, with all the lame shit that have ruined previous games, I'm pretty much fed up by now. This is also one of the main reason I skipped Caller's game, to take a rest. Seventh game, Chuiu's most recent game. I was a Veteran. Game ended like in 1 Day/Night cycle. I've made a few posts the entire game. None of them were "trolling". I was busy the entire weekend, regarding issues with RL, have mentioned in the thread and BC also knows about it. I finally took time to catch up with 34 pages on Monday, read through the whole thing only to find out that the game had ended. If you must mark me as a troll, the only condition you (and others) could have done so is when regarding BC's game. I'm done repeating myself about this game already. Clearly the ones who keep asking is either not reading, or have poor reading comprehension. I don't talk about any game information while I'm dead like Attackzerg, who doesn't shut up even being warned numerous times; I don't betray my own mafia family members; I don't "hack"; I'm not as poetic as Ocz (love the guy); I don't photoshop PM's, even though there is a strict rule to NOT post role PM's in the first place, and I don't go inactive for most of the game. I have suggested numerous times to have open discussion regarding TL Mafia roles and rules setup. All I want is to be able to play a full game, without any of the factors listed above. I'm sure most of the people here are hoping for the same thing. So back to your original quote: "Fishball generally joins the game and then messes around the whole game regardless of his role."If you still think your statement still stands, I guess I'm a pretty hot troll.
thank you sincerely.
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Hmmmm
Hey guys. How about we play a standard game of fucking mafia, sounds good? Like none of this fucking IRC bullshit just play the game it was meant to be played, like Chuiu's first game (only minus the part where we are all retarded and didn't know what we were doing anyways)?
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I was thinking about the detective role. A lot of people feel that clue checking is worthless or pointless because it almost never lands. What if we made the detective role look a little bit like this:
Detective - Has two abilities.
First the ability to, once every other day, ask whether a sentence is a clue. (Meaning the detective would be finding out if what he's reading even points to someone to begin with)
Second, the ability to, once every day, ask whether a clue points to a player. (Meaning he would then be able to start looking for the player the clue points to OR he would be able to ask if a sentence pointed to a person even without knowing if it was really a clue or not)
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Only every other day? Especially if there are few DTs (2/3) its not that useful. Second ability is the one we already have right? I think we should still have rolechecks. Cluechecks could be ok, but as someone (forgot who) said, clues are probably best left in the hands of the town.
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We can keep rolechecks too, I just really feel like detectives should be centered around dealing with clues.
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If we go with this plan, will there be separate DTs for rolechecks + cluechecks or will the DTs have the ability to do both?
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I figure giving DTs all that would make them a lot of responsibility for one player. We could separate them and have one Private Eye with 3 role checks and 2-3 DTs.
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On March 06 2009 08:48 Chuiu wrote:
I was thinking about the detective role. A lot of people feel that clue checking is worthless or pointless because it almost never lands. What if we made the detective role look a little bit like this:
Detective - Has two abilities.
First the ability to, once every other day, ask whether a sentence is a clue. (Meaning the detective would be finding out if what he's reading even points to someone to begin with)
Second, the ability to, once every day, ask whether a clue points to a player. (Meaning he would then be able to start looking for the player the clue points to OR he would be able to ask if a sentence pointed to a person even without knowing if it was really a clue or not)
Im assuming that we are talking about the lesser DT with cluecheck only.
Its still too unpowered for a DT imo. Because everyday the DT will lost the ability asking if the sentence is or not a clue. Better than that i suggest that every dt recieves a confirmed clue everyday (maybe a paragraph from the day post with the clue in bold). That gives the DT an accumulated knowledge that is fair (since its only one clue and he has to make cluechecks). Then every DT recieves a different confirmed clue in bold from the day post. I dont see this too much broken in a setup where the dt cant share the info. This also encourages the dts to stay alive as much as posible because the more time they are alive the more the info they can share with the town. It also increases the mafia interest in snipe them (since all them have different clues from each day). As i see it its quite a normal power (because again even WITH the clues its hard to do cluecheck)
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United States2186 Posts
Detectives can have both cluechecks and rolechecks. Remember, we want to keep the number of blues limited and simple. 2 DTs are fine.
There will be a godfather, so clues will be helpful to find this regardless.
But I still think DTs should have more than 3 rolechecks and usable every night after the first lynch. Rolechecks aren't that strong especially because a) there are 2 and b) they could overlap because there is nobody to organize them (cannot trust sheriff). You cannot force people to just care more about early game (first 3-4 days prolly) clues outside of adding the godfather. How about this:
2 DTs: 5 Rolechecks usable every night after the first lynch. Infinite cluechecks. 1 power per night.
This makes logical sense because catching the godfather won't happen until late in the game generally, when there is a larger amount of clue evidence to use against him. Clues are also a lot more useful later on anyway than in the beginning. Cluechecks in the first few days are almost guaranteed failures. Meanwhile, rolechecks are most useful in the beginning of the game for getting the town started on the right foot. This way the town doesn't feel like there is no information, but clues have a distinct purpose in the mid-lategame.
Nemy, we can't use that setup directly because the level of play has vastly improved. I mean look at game 2, same system, no overpowered elders: Ace broke the game and made it boring for those outside of his secret society. Now we have issues like blue targeting and stuff; things just aren't all that simple unfortunately. That said, we're mostly good on everything now.
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^^^^^ People won't know what you're talking about when you say sheriff -.-
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Sydney2287 Posts
Following Chuiu's train of thought and combining it with Ver's post just then, how about making cluechecks so that the dt can ask either "Is 'x' a clue?" OR "Does clue 'x' point to player 'y'?"
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^ I like that Bockit.
To the uninformed the Sheriff would be an elected role much like the mayor except his only ability would be to imprison a player for one day. The imprisoned player cannot use his role, cannot vote, can speak, and is protected from lynching and being hit by vigils, hatters, mafia, etc. The Sheriff would be able to do this 4 times a game but never on the same player twice.
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That goes along with rolechecks, right?
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Sydney2287 Posts
On March 06 2009 12:51 Incognito wrote:
That goes along with rolechecks, right?
Yeah.
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United States2186 Posts
Here is the rolecheck data taken from the two relevant games. The others aren't relevant because: town was bad in mafia 1, RC list not public in mafia 2 + it's too big, rolechecks not used in mafia 4 because all dt's died in 2 days, and in mafia 6 2 DTs died night 1 and the last DT was manipulated by the inside man.
One of the issues we are having is how to make the DTs and the strength of rolechecks (there will be 2 DTs regardless). Keep in mind that these games there were more than 2 DTs/jacks but they were often busy using the much stronger votecheck. Our DTs will only have rolecheck/cluecheck and there will be no jacks.
Mafia 3:
5 RC:
on Ace (mafia), Fakesteve (medic), Fanatacist (mafia), Fusionsdf (vet), Plexa (mafia)
1 DT lynched day 1, 1 jack died night 3, 1 dt died night 4. Last jack lived all game.
Mafia 5:
4 RC:
on Ver 2x (mafia), amber (hatter), More_Minerals (townie)
2 DTs killed night 1, jack killed night 3. 3rd DT lives all game.
Take this how you will. Too tired to type up something more.
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I didn't realize being a DT was so dangerous...
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Mafia thread and signups will open Wednesday about 9am GMT -6. It will end on Sunday in the evening and the game will start on Monday.
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On March 09 2009 15:21 Chuiu wrote:
Mafia thread and signups will open Wednesday about 9am GMT -6. It will end on Sunday in the evening and the game will start on Monday.
awesome, thanks Chuiu
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Bump so game start time gets some more visibility.
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EPT
