TL Mafia V: The Wrath of KHAAAAAANN
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BloodyC0bbler
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BloodyC0bbler
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BloodyC0bbler
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Obviously this cannot be taken at face value as well, a DT can be sane or insane. Realistically however, we need to start somewhere, and the clues won't be helpful as they are right away. So i suggest this, we lynch Mikeymoo, if he flips as green we will know that I'm the insane dt, and if he flips red we know im the sane DT. Either way, this checks me out the fastest, and potentially gets rid of a mafia that could be influential in destroying the town. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 05:12 ShadowDrgn wrote: You're an insane dt.... or mafia. Or i am a regular DT and i just snagged a mafia in the first go. Everygame pretty well needs something to get the game started, but there is always someone who has to sacrifice themself to do this. I merely stepped up to the plate this game, and went for someone I knew was influential that most people forget about. Every single game people will check out Ace and Ver, but they always forget about the people behind the scenes who help these games, in this game we have mynock, camlito and mikeymoo. Mynock in posting usually gives away he has a role, Camlito will post accordingly to his role, and mikey can hide decentlyish if he wants to. This makes him extremely dangerous, so i chose to check him. As such I Rolechecked Mikeymoo He flipped Mafia. Now as i said, i could be the insane dt, or the sane dt. Either way, either another dt could come forward with a roleclaim on mikey(we have 3 uses each) or the jack could as if the game is like last, the jack is always sane. Or we can use our first day lynch to kill mikey, if he flips green im the insane DT, the other dts can then realize they are sane, and we dont bandwagon kill someone based off day 1 analysis, which is not the way to go usually. So I stress, we can easily determine if I am a sane DT or an insane one, and that would be decided as soon as he is lynched, then that will free things up for the other dt's hopefully and get the ball rolling on the town getting organized. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 06:09 mikeymoo wrote: Because BC's move is so retarded if he's mafia. Vigi hit misses, we lynch him the next day. I know from playing with BC that he's smart enough to figure things out. This move just reeks of Village Idiot. Or wait if we lynch him do we continue playing? Or is it Village Idiot wins? The issue comes down to this though. Anyone, including mafia will say they are blue to get the DT killed as well. As from playing previous games with you, you would do your best to keep behind the scenes and undermine the town if mafia or aid it if town. I have checked you and you flipped red, yes I could be insane, but you are deff not blue. Green or red is what you have, and as per how the green townie works, if you die to prove I am sane or not will be instrumental to the towns success | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 06:12 JL13 wrote: Well, I'd like to believe you because you are essentially sacrificing yourself. But I still can't clear you regardless if he turns red or green. Why? This is because there's isn't a really good way to confirm you without using other DTs/Jack's rolechecks. You can be: 1) DT, which is what you claim. a) You are insane, other DTs don't know they are sane 100% until you die and your role is revealed. b) You are sane, other DTs don't know if they are sane or not 100%, until you die and your role is revealed. Another way to get DT alignments... is all check the same person (i suppose in this case mikeymoo). If mikeymoo gets lynched and flips green/red, then you guys (DTs) can figure out who is sane/insane. Might be a waste of checks, but this clears up alignments really fast. Remember that the chances of multiple insane dt's is extremely low, as it would really break the game so by mikey flipping red or green a) I am known to be sane if hes red, or b) insane if hes green. That clears the other dt's and makes it so they know the role they are. Then one of them, or the jack can then check me and verify my role. Then we have the network of them all knowing if they are sane or not. Note that rolechecks are up to 3 this game, as opposed to having 2 like normal, so the one used check just puts us back to square one. Also, there are more red roles this game, which means any red we kill could potentially one of the important mafia roles. It sucks that I had to jump out into the open, but with insane and sane dt's the faster we can verifiy ourselves, the better. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 06:18 Ace wrote: why are you guys even listening to anything other than cold logic: Lynch BC first. Thats the same logic you used in game 3 to save yourself from being killed from folca's dt check. One that then and even now doesn't make too much sense. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 06:26 mikeymoo wrote: Hence why you would use it against him now. Why would Ace + myself put ourselves in the line of fire to save me? It's such a bad move by two good players. For similar reasons to malongo doing it half assed last game, save one of his compadres if your red, or in the case your green sticking his neck out for you now to gain your trust, or in the case your green and hes red, him sticking his head to get himself inside a townie circle. There are multiple reasons for a player like ace to do so, as he thinks each act through as he does them in mafia. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 06:29 Ace wrote: It always made sense. Even in game 3 it made sense. Anytime on the first day any person jumps out and claims DT and that they've found someone they should be lynched. The burden of proof is on your death, not mikeymoos. Secondly I know you're smarter than that. No matter who you checked this game, they've got a high chance of flipping red if you're an insane DT. Which puts a big fucking hole in your entire role claim. See, if you REALLY wanted to find out whether you were sane or not, you would have waited to see who was going to get lynched on Day 2, and then before he died role check him. Check what color his blood spills, compare it with Mikeymoo and THEN reveal yourself. But you didn't. Killing you first stops any mafia in any game from false role claiming DT on the first day. If they know it's a sure fire way to get lynched they just won't try it often. What you're suggesting is killing mikeymoo first (lol) and then if he really does flip townie you can always say lulz, guess I was an Insane DT. When the real DTs check you and find you're mafia they can't come out safely without exposing themselves unless they find a mouthpiece. Of course they can't because they used their Day 1 rolecheck on someone else, and the Day 2 check on your ass. Since you weren't lynched and neither was their Day 1 check they still don't know if they are sane or not, hence they are still fucking confused. Your idea is the one that makes 0 sense. You always lynch the person accusing on Day 1 because all the relevant questions will be answered with YOUR death - not mikeymoo's. For someone of this cold logic, where was it in game 4 ace? You guys get the myserious role claim and nail ver on it. Not the dt who gave you the info. In every game on day one a DT who roleclaims, Especially in this case, gives information to every other dt playing. Yes they use their day 1 checks, and at that point they aren't sure if they are the real DT or not. As of this lynch that is determined instantly, so yes, there is a high possibility he is green and I am insane, but at the same time, it clears the other DT's for tommorrow and allows them to pm any information they have to people without the fear of further proof. With his death the rest of the dt's know their alignment, I guarentee know mine, and it gets rid of someone who potentially can screw the town almost as badly as you, ver, or camlitos would if you were red and inside any town circles. Do I agree that it could have been best served to wait a day or so? Yes, but at the same time, Day 1 helps set the tempo for the rest of the game, if we take eons without a dt exposing anything on Day 1 we end up killing someone on faulty clue work, its retarded. Behaviour analysis also isn't good on day 1 without something like this happening as people will just stay quiet, eventually people abstain and someone with 1-2 votes gets lynched(Yes even if 99% of the town abstains someone will still hang unless caller changed the game rules from last game). This is one of those times that yes I will die most likely for it, but the information coming from it is more than worth it. You yourself act on these as well, and take more faith from the information coming through 1-2 people rather than the voice itself, there's no logic in that. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 07:00 Ace wrote: In game 4 I was a mouthpiece, not the DT. So lynching me wouldn't solve anything. Hence, this is not the same scenario. Your example fails. The DTs are NOT cleared tomorrow. If Mikeymoo dies and flips green, that does not tell us anything about you. Which means some DT still has to RC YOU. Which means thats 2 rolechecks down the drain for a DT and thats assuming mikeymoo is going to get lynched. Thats a terrible trade for someone who could potentially be mafia from the town's POV. Hell, even if everything went right and the DTs figured out whether they are sane or not they can't PM anything to anyone except on blind trust because they have no more abilities to use. In a game with this much fatal roles, that'd be suicide. And also in Game 4 I took the word from Qatol because I got it from Caller, and Scaramanga also knew. That's 3 people that find out from the DT. That's a lot of pressure on him if something goes wrong and I was confident enough in my ability that if all 3 of them were mafia they'd have just gotten themselves killed. Which means it was most likely true. anyway onto something that bugs me about the way things happen around here: A general piece of mafia advice If anyone claims they are a DT on day one and says they have found a mafia member - lynch them. Always. This is critical. If you always lynch the accused, then mafia will always just have someone roleclaim DT on Day 1, claim someone like myself or Ver is mafia and watch the town lynch us. Then when you lynch the mafia for lying you feel like morons. If Myself/Ver flips red you still have no idea about the DT. However, if you lynch the accuser first you ALWAYS know what the accused role is. ALWAYS. This is crucial. If you do this consistently mafia will hesitate to DT claim on the first day in future games knowing they will get lynched. It also prevents our DTs from role claiming so early without building a solid deck of proof and finding a mouthpiece with their other day2 and day3 abilities. This logic will always work. Do NOT lynch the person being accused. It tells you nothing unless they just happen to flip blue, which means you fucked up anyway. Now why would you want to go down that road? If you lynch me first I flip up detective, but why would caller say i flip as the insane detective, thats a give away to the rest of the detectives at no cost. This can help clear by day 2. If for arguments sake there are 3 dt's as per normal games(remember for arguments sake) To make 2 of those insane, or for the love of god 3 of them, caller is stacking the game in favour of the mafia. As i don't think he would do that chances are high there are only 1 insane dt (possibly 2 if there are more than 3 dts). We already have 3 role checks a piece which is 1 higher than in previous games, giving us essentially 1 rolecheck to help verify our own alignment, if we each spend 2-3 days figuring out if we are sane or not, we are pretty well fucked as a town. This provides us with a simple and effective way to help all the dts right now, making them know that the day 1 rolecheck they did is legit or not. As for being a mouthpiece? That is less credible than the DT taking the risk themself, as they can just go "oh shit the guy was townie, means my DT was insane or mafia lets lynch him" and suddenly 2 dead townies with 2 wasted lynches for one mafia in the end. Huge pay off. The fact that you blind trusted scara as well as caller with having qatol as mafia shows your own personal logic is completely flawed, it payed off for you but flawed. Mafia claiming dt mouth piece is alot simpler and more effective than claiming DT. My method gives dts to use a check today, and by tommorrow know if they are sane or not, as caller would risk way too much imbalance by having more than one insane dt, or by having 4-5 dts +jack just to have 2 insane dts as thats an insane amount of rolechecks. Meaning we most likely have myself and 2-3 other dts with one of us as insane. Mickey will flip red or green, and we find out some info/hurt mafia alot. This also helps get town organized, ffs Ace you know this as well as i do, yet our so against it, just as you are every game your mafia. Yet as town this is something you love to have happen. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 07:25 Ace wrote: Actually assuming mikey is legit, it makes more sense for him to really claim blue. The town always goes against my logic because it's "shit, we might lose a DT tho...". With mikey claiming to be blue now those same townies can think "damn, we might lose a blue this way too..." hopefully countering that ass backwards thinking. Claiming blue is the only thing a mafia could do in that position to hope to not get lynched ace. My rolecall to be effective for the other dt's requires his death, as well as for myself, if he was mafia, saying he is blue is the only way to defend himself. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 07:47 CynanMachae wrote: If you are DT and he's mafia, claiming blue doesnt save him. Suppose we lynch you, you pop blue, uh well, mikey's red. Say he said he was green, we lynch you, you pop blue, well, we are still not sure about mikey. I mean it in the sense that, by saying he is blue it throws us down to "hes lying no hes lying" If he was red or green, I could be insane, i even said it is a possibility. Blue is his only way of trying to refute i am a dt. And to re-iterate to everyone who hasn't read this yet. Lynching me first does not prove anything to dt's on day 2 or 3. I will flip detective, then town Still has to then check mikey again in another way on my rolecheck. Wasting rolechecks. Ace's logic on lynching me first will give less information to the town than lynching mikey, that is simple. Your all basically thinking in your head "kill the accuser to prove hes legit, or the accused to prove if the dt is legit" Problem with this, killing me does not prove mikey's role, killing him proves mine, as well as is instrumental for the other dt's. You also are going well "ace said this was a good idea" Ace also stated he adopts almost the same thing but worse. He prefers to recieve random pm claims of "hey im a dt, so and so is red" and will lynch based off that, rather than someone taking the risk of standing up and coming out into the open. Seriously, consider that I'm risking my own death(if i was mafia this is retarded of a strategy) to snipe one random player? If i were mafia i would have claimed to be a voice of a dt, and gotten more people lynched that way. The only time that someone would push to lynch a DT is if they were afraid of being found out as red. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 07:54 Ace wrote: I hope the real DTs are looking at the people arguing against me right now because no one can be this stupid. If BC really was a DT, all this time he would be advocating for himself to be lynched. Because if he REALLY was a DT, him flipping blue would have exposed mikeymoo as liar (since he would have lied about being a blue) and also cleared up some DTs that check mikeymoo to figure shit out by the arrival of Night 2. BC hasn't once offered himself up as the sacrifice. He has to be lying. Lynch him. Ace its the information that is gathered from it, In the case of the insane DT you gain more information from lynching the accused than the accuser, that is clear as day, and the fact you dont see it, or are refusing to a) makes you the VI or b) mafia as well. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 08:17 Bockit wrote: Same as game 3, we have no choice but to lynch the accuser. It's always the best option, especially with insane dts in the game. Ace has covered the logic already in his posts, but if you want more go to game 3 and read my posts in there. There's another reason to lynch BC, because this was such a dumb move by him if he was the dt, behaviourally I have to imagine that he isn't the dt. This leaves him as either Village Idiot or mafia. Lynching either is a good thing. If he flips VI, he gets his personal win and there'll be less derailment. If he's mafia well we all know that's a good thing. And then the crux of the matter, If he truly is a detective he will very likely die tonight. Mafia don't seem to have a habit of leaving them around if you've noticed. If he's insane and we lynch mikey, we lost a townie/blue, and then we lose the dt at night. Logically, lynching BC gives us the most info for the smallest loss, that's what it comes down to. And then behaviourally what he did makes no sense which is usually a good sign something is up. Let me remind you, If i am the insane DT he would have still flipped blue when i role checked him, blues stay blues, only greens and reds are confused. How do you get the most information from killing me? I die and flip DT, it doesnt say if im insane or not, then your left at "shit is mikey green or red" so you lynch him. That is two wasted lynches to find out what you would find out if he is lynched tonight. You all can't seem to connect the dots, because insane DT's are in this game, you will have to lynch the accused to get the information the accusing DT was trying to give. If i had been a legit DT this isn't a step that is normally needed as you will always know what you use as a power is legit. If there is even 1 insane, you have to spend more time trying to determine your role. As you said, say mafia does kill me tonight, what has that accomplished, lets see I am sane DT A)mikey is red and dies b) I die tonight unless protected I am insane DT a)mikey is green dies (shit) b)the other dt's know if they are sane or not c) mikey's staunch defenders using rather flawed logic are almost certaintly red d) I die at night unless protected I don't expect to live through the night, I want to give information to the other dts, which requires my roleclaim on mickey to be used sooner rather than later. The longer time it takes for them to know if they are sane or not, the higher chance the mafia has on infiltrating town networks. More is gained in his death first. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 08:29 chaoser wrote: the thing is, we lynch first and then medics have time to decide who to protect so if BC turns out ok then medics can protect him then so there's actually no problems with him having to fear death Its unreasonable to stack medics on me though, as a bomber could kill me, or just stack 2-3 hits in a night to kill me. Most i can last is 1-2 nights. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 08:44 Bockit wrote: Nice fleshing out of option two to make it look better than it is. B and C are kind of irrelevant. If you read the beginning of game 3 again I was making the same arguments there as I did here. Yes Ace turned out to be mafia and Folca did turn out to be a dt, that was basically shit luck. And then you're forgetting options 3 and 4: You are mafia: - You could be godfather roleclaiming dt in case you get checked - You could just be mafia (Much more likely if it's this option) You are village idiot - Good to lynch you because you'll just stir shit as the game goes on if you're kept alive. in 3 of those 4 possibilities, it screws us to lynch mikey over you. In 2 of those 4 possibilities, it is worthwhile to kill you. Now something you haven't addressed is your behaviour. Why, why after so many people asked dts NOT to jump out on day 1, did you do this if you were a DT. Not only that you picked a dude that other DTs were unlikely to have picked themselves and thus couldn't speak up against you. Because lets face it, dts are more likely to be investigating Ace/Ver than mikeymoo. Also, all this stuff about finding out the sanity of dts by cross checking dt checks. There's a much easier way that was put forward last game so it's not like it's anything new, just rolecheck the guy who's about to be lynched. That way you don't need any huge webs of crosschecked dt rolechecks who then become public knowledge and killed by mafia. Again, logic says we should lynch you and behaviour says something is up. Anyone who has talked to my outside mafia games knows that I hold mikeymoo, plexa, MTF, and camlitos in alot higher regard than Ver and Ace. Ace from my experience has had a decent strategy in Mafia 2, but was the mouth piece of the clue analyzers. In mafia 3 he was red advocating we lynch folca to save his own skin, last game he got random picked out by RoL. Ver has had decent writeups from what ive seen, and also behaviour analyzes, but as the town manage to completely botch aces mafia, my respect of him isn't that high. Mikey I have played with directly and know his ability(he was in the same circle i was in winning mafia 3), same with camlitos(plexa and mtf arent playing). I figured the chances of caller picking camlitos again for mafia were slim so i checked Mikey. As for my behaviour? In everygame i have honestly roleclaimed, go look at aces game, mafia 3, and last game, i said i was green. I was all cases. Mafia 2 i claimed vig to ace which i was. I play everygame in a way to give the town best chances for survival, not my own personal gain, count that into your analysis. As for what your offering in terms of role checking someone about to be lynched to determine? That means every dt has to do this once. This way, only one of us has to. Now lets flip this around as you want me to. If i was godfather, I would never roleclaim dt first day, its guarenteed that i die either with first or second lynch. Meaning id never get to use my recruitment abilities. As for regular mafia I have stated earlier it would be easier and smarter to just claim i was speaking for a DT then get someone lynched, then if it goes poorly, sell out X, they get lynched then i get lynched. Seriously half the shit that goes on in this game is dictated by players such as ace and ver, who because they have played this more than us, or have had one amazing game that people see them as the best players. Ace rarely changes up his play, and if people go against him he whines and stops playing and then posts to stir shit up. Learn to think people. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 09:51 3 Lions wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 31 2008 09:45 0cz3c wrote: Finally. I guess I finally got the message across. THANK YOU. I knew we could come to an understanding. Not sure if that's the most beneficial to the town, but just choose a time before the game ends to lynch me and I'll be happy. Thanks. Yes, I am the village idiot. But now on to some serious, helpful business for the town. There's a chance that BloodyCobbler is mafia. I kid you not. The name of the game is "The Wrath of Khan." Yeah. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah. Look at BloodyCobbler's signature. It reads, "BY THE KHAN FOR THE KHAN OF THE KHAN THEREFORE SAMSUNG KHAN WIN." ....Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. However, I have not yet convinced myself, so I'm not sure whether I can call him a 100% mafia (as I have been able to do (quite confidently) with the previous seven). But I have the eighth. Let's just vigi kill him some night. That should do it. I know what you're thinking. "But 0cz3c, we can't just blindly trust you. You're saying he's mafia, but you ain't showin' us no clues. What gives doggonit?" Reasonable thoughts. So, expecting your doubt in advance, I've prepared some analysis that indisputably links Ace with the role of mafia. Firstly, he was mafia last game. And the game before the one before that. Yeaaaaaaaaaah. I'm always skeptical about these things, for an Arabian proverb states that whatever happens one time will never happen again, but what happens twice will surely happen thrice. This is the third time. I guarantee it. Secondly, Ace is from the United States. Michael Jackson is from the United States, too. Coincidence? Clearly not. I've dug up some more mud on the mafia. His profile reads, "don\'t blame me, you shoulda voted for me the first time." Ace uses the first person. Caller never uses the first person in his Day Post. Something like this is always intentional. Especially when the clues are about Ace and are meant to be conspicuous. Thirdly, the attackers are putting the blame on Caller. It's not their fault for attacking him; rather, it's his existence that is the primal cause and problem. You might notice that this detail is strikingly similar to Ace's profile words, in which he says, "don\'t blame me, you shoulda voted for me the first time." He's putting the blame on everyone but himself. As the umpire in the center of the world would say, "You're ouuuuuuuuutttttttaaaaaa here." It's coming. I-T-'-S C-O-M-I-N-G. Here is my Ace in the Hole. The movie. Ace in the Hole by Billy Wilder. Notice any word that sticks out? My analysis indicates that it must be "Ace." Hmmmm. That seems to ring a bell. DING DONGGGGGG. ACE. The suspect for mafia. ! In Ace in the Hole, a man holds another man's life in his hands, but all he only wants money. $$$ The man leaves a trapped man to die. Well, Caller here is trapped himself. ! And, of course, the Day Post says, "He Wanna Stay Alive, Better Do What He Can." Identical to how the man in Ace in the Hole acts. And notice how WILD the mafia are acting. Almost like....BILLY WILDER ! And I overlooked this previously, but here it is: FACE. F - A - C - E. ACE. Another mafia bites the dust. I think I've gotten almost all of them. I'll wait for the next day post before I make my final verdict. I'll let you guys know what I conclude. Hmmm. You know, it seems that all these clues are linking back to movies I've watched in my film class. I'm not sure if this is a coincidence, so I'll keep an eye out for this in the future. I'll provide the list of the movies in a following post for any other adventurous clue hunters. Also, I'm am the jack. I've already used one rolecheck, so I cannot check either BloddyCobbler or mikeymoo. I'm not sure if I'm insane or not, so I would not like to disclose the information which has been revealed to me. I will once I find out, however. Of course I remind you all that Showtime! has said that I am insane. If it turns up that he is lying, then that means that he is mafia. So, then, we must lynch him. Caller: can Jack be insane? I'd like to ASK YOU FIRST BEFORE WE JUMP TO ANY CONCLUSIONS !!! I'll be role-checking Scaramanga tomorrow. Hopefully mafia will think that I'm just kidding and they won't kill me at night. I think I can tough it out another night. We'll know for sure whether Scaramanga is truly the mafia I have deduced him (correctly) to be. How can you be both the Jack and Village Idiot? Hes a special kind of stupid | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 09:56 AttackZerg wrote: You fools haven't learned to not read his posts ..... wtf? i read whats bolded in his posts. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 10:01 AttackZerg wrote: BC, something is weird, I've never seen you post this much constantly..... your personality is different from last game. Somebody check the previous thread and compare, something is up with BC. Either he A) has a good role or B) gets excited like me when they know they are going to die and sets up a huge scene. AZ this is the first time ive had a role since mafia 2 and By god im not letting retards lead this town again. Ace got lucky inactives were replaced in mafia 2 or they woulda won easy. Ace seems to always get the top spot to lead the town yet he relies on so many people to win, and rarely do i see public credit given. Instead I am merely doing the first step that won us game 3, but with the upside i can give alot more information than we did in mafia 3 as this way a bunch of people who are so staunchly defending mikey can be checked next, and some will deff flip red. I would rather die early using my blue role efficiently and get the town running as it should to win(remember one central body WONT WORK this game with a GF and mole as well as GF conversions. My method will start the beginnings of the small groups by giving my fellow DT's the ability to see if they are sane or not. Then the small groups start, use 2-3 vocal townies as their mouth pieces and we have a shot at winning. Everything I do is for the town, you will see that I use my role to the best i can everygame. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 10:17 mikeymoo wrote: BC is posting a lot because he's defending himself from a foolish move/excited he's going to die because he's VI. I assure you I have a blue role. Everyone's speculation on my claim is correct. A red DOES have motivation to claim blue, as does a green. As BC said, it's a "he lies no he lies" situation. I implore everybody to listen to common sense and reread what everyone has posted. BC is acting weird. It's very apparent. Also as BC said, this happens EVERY GAME. So why would he come out in the open? It's not "to get the ball rolling" as he said, but because everyone knows this happens on day one, and it happens with the same result. The accused dies. He's trying to kill me, obviously. Or he's trying to get lynched. And he also doesn't know if I'm mafia or not. If he was Jack and KNEW I was red, then there is a good reason to lynch me today. Why let BC know if he is insane right away? This is just so mind-shatteringly stupid. I flip red: Bloodyc0bbler is legit? Not necessarily. Could be a mafia ploy. No info. I flip blue: Oh well way to go town. BC is mafia/VI I flip green: Good job town again. No info yet again. And if I die, keep watch over everybody who voted for me. There is almost no case against me, and people who voted for me are likely retarded/mafia. Both of us are posting far more than we normally do. If you flip red, yes i am legit as im a DT If you flip blue(not likely) you hit me i could be mafia/VI if you flip green it means im insane, other dts are sane, and town learns alot. All of their current checks flip legit and we are on our way to town victory still and your death serves a huge purpose. I have said before, If i was mafia i would not be playing as i am now, especially considering most reds will have a role. Would be suicide. As for getting the ball rolling? It is exactly that, one good lynch or one that gives alot of information if amazing for town moral, and have stressed already how the mini circles will form. as for VI? That role is more efficiently used playing on the side of the town and getting rewarded later. You have played with me previously, you should know that i only play for the betterment of the town. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 10:33 mikeymoo wrote: lol how does this have any merit?!? VI can die at night, so it's better to get lynched asap. Because a VI can just hide behind the scenes, and wait till town basically wins and be like "lynch me now" Pretty simple reason behind it. As a regular green i just hide behind the scenes and do analysis. As a blue i have to do what is the best thing for the town using my role, regardless of if i live or die. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On December 31 2008 10:50 Incognito wrote: I haven't finished reading through the whole thread yet. Some useful information from some of the questions I've seen: From: Caller Subject: Re: Kill Power Date: 12/31/08 10:47 #/2 rounded up ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Mafia kill power is...= to their members? From: Caller Subject: Re: Sanity Date: 12/31/08 10:45 just dt ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Oh also when a DT dies, is he simply revealed as a DT or is his sanity revealedd also? It shouldn't be, the DT should flip the exact role message he was given. | ||
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On December 31 2008 10:54 mikeymoo wrote: Um a DT isn't told his sanity. What do you mean the DT should flip the exact role message he was given? sorry i phrased it badly. Exactly what you said. He should flip blue as in just Detective, if he dies and the sanity is told it kinda ruins the point of having the sanity bit. | ||
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On December 31 2008 11:22 Mynock wrote: Wait a second. Who said there's only 1 insane DT in the game? Or am i missing something? To have more than 1 would require having like 4-5 dts + jacks And to maintain a balanced game, he would need 3 dts, which requires 1 insane dt to maintain balance. Caller should have learned from last game, that balance is essential. Anymore than 3 dts and the game gets too inbalanced with the amount of role checks. and with more than 1 insane dt you get too much time debating on your sanity that you don't end up being useful. anything else and this game gets to be horrifically one sided either for town or mafia based on how many dts/how many insane dts there are. | ||
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On December 31 2008 11:42 Bockit wrote: Things like roleclaiming in previous games is irrelevant there's no point bringing it up as proof that you are legitimate in this game. New roles, new affiliations, everything changes. The godfather thing was more for completeness than anything else. leaving us at this again: The biggest issue with the behaviour is that you jumped out, on day 1. You could have pm'd 2 people you knew were posting and used them as your mouth, much safer than just coming straight out to everyone and even possible to catch out another mafia if one of them refuses to speak for you. You could have waited one more day and had another check to put out on the table. Mikeymoo really wouldn't have been able to accomplish much, not with the more vocal players making their points. Behaviour from previous games is important here however, as it defines how people play almost game to game. Ace has played exactly the same everygame, with the difference that if hes mafia and called on it, he starts to spaz a little and slips up. Otherwise he just gets angry. Bringing up my previous gaming experiences is more a reflection on how i play, which is always to the same goal. Then you say i should use mouth pieces? Early day 1, that is a safer route but less legitimate to prove yourself as you first have to prove the people your a DT, and in a pm there is no risk to yourself really, as its your word vs theres and pm's can be photoshopped. Using a mouth piece is less logical than someone taking the risk and getting lynched, as there is almost no risk to yourself but no credibility either. By doing it in the open you put yourself on the same chopping block, which no intelligent mafia will do, and the VI's best interest revolve working with the town to ensure a victory then have town lynch them just before that happens. Only being a DT would correlate to this way of playing. | ||
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Incognito, for an idea of how people are playing, go look at my playstyle in previous games where im green. Now go look at aces, and mynocks for instance when they are red and townie. Ace is playing very similar to his mafia style atm. This is obviously not how i play when im green, and everyone considered knows that this is the worst way to play a red, so that would leave me as blue, like i claimed. | ||
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On December 31 2008 12:45 Mynock wrote: BC, I'm curious to hear what you perceive me as now. Of course it will probably be irrelevant once you flip VI and get your picture, but I'd still like to hear it. Really haven't bother analyzing your previous gameplay. Your bandwagoning with ace, much like normal. But most people view him as a saint so i wont hold that against you. Ace United States. December 31 2008 12:35. you can't ever compare my playstyles in games to one another. I play different behind and the scenes than when I'm in public. So anything you try to do will be useless, especially since I play as a helpful townie even when I'm mafia. What are you smoking? Everytime your red you argue publically against being lynched(anyone would) but when you get called out you use skewed logic to favour yourself and then you drop down to saying how someone who was blue wouldnt play the DT role like that, then when you die you post some random curses or other bs. Behind the scenes you play the innocent townie to get intertwined and screw the town, as any intelligent mafia would. Its when you get called out your gameplay shifts. When your townie you rally to be the town voice, then treat anyone not blue or who agrees with you like trash so no, its a pretty accurate way to guide someone game by game. You may have more experience with the game, but that doesn't make everyone in it sheep who have to play the way you think they should. Stop ralleying behind your mafia buddy and let him die, at least this time you didnt get rolecalled first. Edit: added in a end quote tag. | ||
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On December 31 2008 13:02 Unforgiven_ve wrote: i got it a 11:11 !! tha numbers! make a wish | ||
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On December 31 2008 13:02 Ace wrote: ok BC just blew his rouse. He can't be a DT. nice way trying to discredit me there buddy but it wont work. Lynch BC. And me defending mikey moo doesn't imply there is a connection between us. I'm defending him on the basis that you're a lying sac of shit. Nice trying to analyze my playstyle but you still failed. I never use skewed logic, as your impending death is about to reveal. You did use skewed logic. In a game where as a DT i could be insane, more information is gained from the accused death than the accuser. With my death nothin is certain at all about the accused but my blue role. You seem to forget that. As for analyzing your playstyle, thats a general rundown of it and you know it. Regardless, it comes down to the choice of the town to believe two players who both have claimed blue, one openly to help the town, the other to help himself. Lynch me and a blue dies tonight, Lynch mikey and a green/red dies. pretty simple | ||
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On December 31 2008 13:07 Mynock wrote: You know what's funny tho? Every time I was rallied behind Ace is when both him and me were Town (we were only once Mafia together, last game, and yeah, you could see how that played out). I dunno, but from my point of view it says something about my perception rather than just blunt stabs and bandwagoning, don't you think? Finally, whatever I say will always be based on the most solid logic known to me, rather than anything else. If I am Mafia I never feel the need to withhold sound advice from Town, as that's not in mí best interest either (because it would differ from my "usual" style). That is because I'm confident I can always gain Town's trust, and that is because NO MATTER what role I am, I will play it like a Townie, so it will be in Towns interest to listen to what I say. Ad I can tell you this: 1) the VI has not identified himself yet. 2) You played your role extremely bluntly and based on very vague logic (how can you assume only 1 DT is insane? Yes I read your post, I just think it's completely unsound) if you really are a DT. 3) The best way for a DT to play is gather info until he can find a confirmed blue and then provide it all to the inner link. That, or use a mouthpiece as a minimum. I put you on a VI, and want to tell youo that even if you get what you want, using the same strat as RoL did last time is pretty lame. Unlike last game the VI has no reason to identify himself? Hes a green whos job is to die, thats about it. As for best way to play a dt? you have a mole, gf who can convert people into mafia and appear as someone who is blue,a mafia that only has a codename and no clues pointed at them, then most likely 1 insane dt. If the DT's can't verify their sanity quickly, mafia will certaintly win. I will agree with you that Had i been another blue role, green again or mafia, easiest way is to sit behind the scenes. DT's dont have as much leeway with that this game as they might not be reliable. Town is at a supreme disadvantage until the dt's can be sure of theirselves. and lastly to again answer the 1 DT insane, To create a balanced mafia game, having more than 3-4 DT's makes it unbalanced (specially with 3 rolechecks) Having even more of them insane further imbalances it as dt's become pretty useless unless they waste abilities on it. So yes a large part of me playing The dt as i am, is based on caller not making a completely one sided game. | ||
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On December 31 2008 13:28 Bockit wrote: Wait so if I suddenly accused you of being red, and you had a blue role you would just say 'no I'm a <rolename>' giving it to mafia? All he did was roleclaim the one thing a DT would pick up, He came up red, making him a liar in my books. If you had someone roleclaim you red knowing that the only other role they could have pegged you for is green(due to insane dt), and you were red, you would roleclaim you were blue to protect yourself. If we had legit dt's he would claim green. By claiming blue all he did was try to dodge first lynch and save his red self. | ||
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On December 31 2008 13:34 naonao wrote: sign me up :D your a bit late :p | ||
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On December 31 2008 13:34 Ace wrote: mikeymoo doesn't have to role claim to prove himself. The entire burden of proof rests on BC, not mm. Otherwise every game would start with mafia roleclaiming a DT and watching the town stupidly lynch. Yet your down with "someone claiming to be voice of DT" and laying burden of proof on the accused. So your fine with someone blindly trusting X to lynch Mafia A but totally against DT A just calling out Mafia A. Wow sounds like we have a winner. Ace you practice policy completely differently than you preach. You would only staunchly protect mikey this hard if you 100% knew his role, and only ways to do that would be to be a mafia with him, or have looked at his pm's. | ||
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On December 31 2008 13:36 chaoser wrote: yet this is what you did in game four (even though you were not mafia) and you stated that you didn't need to explain anything so why is it that you can do it and BC can't Because hes a hypocrite | ||
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On December 31 2008 14:28 0cz3c wrote: That's what I meant. Ace is the doc, no? My clue analysis seems to confirm this. he was paramedic | ||
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I am a dt who rolechecked mickeymoo he then said he was townie Verifying I'm a sane dt. Or that im mafia and hes townie oriented or we are both mafia. If you lynch one of us, you have to weigh it down to losing one blue, and killing a red, and which person you want to believe. | ||
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I was given role of DT, and as i said earlier i know prominent players from previous games. The first on my list atm for decent players are mynock, camlito, ver, ace, mickeymoo. Those are the first names in my head. Most people would check ace or ver, and possibly mynock, but not camlito or mickeymoo. Camlito was mafia last game, chances of another flip of red is rare, i rolechecked mickeymoo then without anyone to trust, nor sure if i was blue, i posted my findings publically. I advocated my position i believe well, but as soon as he claimed blue, i knew i was sane, but continued to argue the way i did to hopefully help the town realize i was trying to do this for the betterment of it. But now as it comes down to me about to die. Remember that when i flip as dt, he has already confirmed that he is red by claiming blue, as such lynch or vigi him for it. | ||
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On December 31 2008 16:08 Amber[LighT] wrote: I'm just going to post this: Who the fuck role-checks Mikeymoo? He has NEVER been a major player (or a part) in any mafia game here. Just letting you guys know, if you're new to TL mafia... If a DT would like to role-check me so we can get something moving that would be great. It would be a good idea to start organizing asap before we all die. Double check mafia 3 before you say that again. Good try though | ||
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On December 31 2008 16:14 Amber[LighT] wrote: So between: mynock, camlito, ver, ace, mickeymoo You chose someone who was key in just 1 mafia game? The other four are usual suspects in every game and usually have trouble uniting the town because of their 'mafia history' and they were not role-checked? (I know Ace got S. Bombed) I dunno just a bit sketchy coming from me. Ace had one game of real accomplishment and yet hes viewed as a saint. Ver has played in what, 2 games where he helped lead callers town to defeat, and then died day 1 in my game? Mynock usually is vocal but he was just red with camlitos in version 1 of callers game so i went for option 3. It was thought out and even justified earlier in the thread. | ||
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If he was he verified every player, host, and non player in the game | ||
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So no, i call bs on you "randomizing me" I also had it 2 minutes after you saw a post of mine in the old thread bitching about being green 3 times in a row, this makes 4. | ||
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On January 01 2009 03:22 chaoser wrote: the old point of the VI was that since he couldn't be killed except for lynching, he could cut a deal with either the town or the mafia so he could help them. atleast that's what i think All VI was in this game was a kick in the balls, there are no pros to the role, My pm didnt even guarentee me a ms paint(which is a shitty reward) nor is the thing in my role description. My pm was filled with cutsy ^^ smiles, saying i was villiage idiot and as such i got my role early. So rather than make me a legitmate green, caller made me a green who is actually worse than a green with no pro's to the role. Basically my options when i got my role were as followed A) play game normally, then lose B) suicide and win C) play game normally and hope people lynch me for helping and win D) go completely inactive and say fuck it E) quit game I chose B as the rest a) werent fair to town or b) fair to myself | ||
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On January 01 2009 06:15 Caller wrote: Admiral Ackbar. Reflecting changes as we speak in op Pure gold, AZ is now immortalized | ||
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On January 01 2009 06:18 Caller wrote: I move that AZ changes his username to AdmiralAckbar second | ||
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On January 01 2009 06:19 3 Lions wrote: Attackzerg: Me: feel bad for ace. Everygame im green (and yes Village Idiot is basically green) ace dies day 1, im glad the tradition lives on | ||
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You dont have faith in anything. | ||
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On January 06 2009 13:40 Ace wrote: hmm yea I think I'm with Camlito on this one. Unless you get people that are going to play their roles seriously (BC did even though he hated the VI role) it's no point in playing anymore. It was worse than being a townie =( Caller, only thing i gotta say, is you have to find a way to deal with the inactivity =\. Your voting threads are way to dead for the amount of players. | ||
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On January 06 2009 13:55 Ace wrote: Right. Ver, Camlito, myself, Plexa and MTF were all greens in our "breakout" games. Just play for your side and you'll have fun. So was I actually. Just sucks being the same type of role regularly as you end up playing a very similar game. | ||
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On January 06 2009 14:15 Ace wrote: Someone claiming DT on day 1 is never a problem - it's the townies that are too stupid to realize how to deal with it. I'm sorry but just like irl if anyone accuses another person of something you have no reason to blindly trust them on the strength that "they might be telling the truth" or in mafia terms, they might be blue. DUH! That's the entire reason they did it. Get smarter/better players and just ban the people who fuck it up. And IMO AZ hasn't ever fucked up a mafia game. I know where your coming from Ace with kill the accuser first, as well the burden of proof is on them. But when your the DT or in my case a complete asshole VI, you want the accused dead first. That being said, I knew you'd argue my death and had to argue back to avoid being tremendously obvious until after everyone who was going to vote had voted. In the end though i barely got lynched, was way to close. You were right though, kill the accuser first on day 1, just as anyone Claiming to be a dt in a pm day one shouldn't be believed either. | ||
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On January 06 2009 14:26 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: In this game with the insane dts, etc. Your lynch is definite, I voted to lynch you as well BC. However, I think in a game like Mafia 3, it makes more sense to lynch the accused. I understand it gives you less information, but you have to weigh that against killing one of your DTs. If he pops red, then you have either a legit DT who you can protect/test until you determine his authenticity. Then you could have a red posing as a DT who gets one of his own killed. That is rare imo, and a very hard circumstance to pull off, I would still keep the accuser "DT" under scrutiny until I am proven otherwise. Plus BC, you were retarded with the way you were talking and with your role, you had to be VI. I just wish we lynched someone else and vigi'd you out of the game. but whatever! I was riding on no one would think i'd do what you did, and on town retardedness. Ver almost had people swap targets last minute. For caller: I like the idea's of roles you have had in this game(minus the role i got), but i think by trying to add all the creative roles to keep people interested you didn't notice the inbalance that was created from it. With all the mafia roles, that protect them from being found, or allowing infiltration into the town, combined with the fact DT's have to basically waste an ability to become useful, makes it harder for the town. They also don't have a way to penalize mafia for vote swinging or the like. | ||
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On January 06 2009 14:37 Ace wrote: lol agreed. It'll happen anyway the way these games go. Unless we name change for the game. | ||
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Before he hosted I was intending to throw another one(i dont begrudge him at all for taking it off my hands). I do think he should have done what I was trying to do though, and gather the list of inactive players then ban them from playing. Ver offered to help, as did scara, mikey and a few others. Had he just said "hey i want to run it" then as a huge group we came up with the list of inactive to kick out, we would hopefully not be facing the same issue as now. For next game, whoever ends up running it, sit down and talk to all the previous game hosts/and their helpers and the active active players to find who who did jack shit, then ban them from playing. That, or wait an extended period of time before rehosting so it seems new and exciting again. | ||
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On January 06 2009 15:05 Caller wrote: LTT actually had the idea of giving everybody playing a special role that isn't very strong but isn't that of a townie. I think he wanted to do something with it. That could have worked as well, but inactivity is horrific =\. Aces game was pretty bad for it, mine was bad for it, this is bad for it, mafia 2, and 3 were bad for it. We need a system to deal with it somehow or the game loses its appeal. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler for MVP, winning mafia games from day 1 | ||
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On January 16 2009 13:44 Caller wrote: you were bitching like a madman lol qatol was also like "oh i can't play due to personal issues" but he pmed me everyday, lol. I was bitching cause the role is horrible =\ Like, had something happened if i died like randomly killing 2-4 people out of shame or the like, the role would have some like substance to it. As it is now the role was a gimped townie, which is worse than any role I've had to date. That being said, after seeing how the town operated this game, I'm kind of happy I had VI, let me a) win and b) avoid being pushed over the cliff by retard townies/smart mafia. [QUOTE]On January 16 2009 13:48 Ver wrote: Conversions were really dumb I agree. I thought outside of them the game was fine. BC you got lucky not enough people listened to me . Although that makes up for the 'luck' of getting stuck with that horrible role. Had you managed to convince them to lynch someone else(and i not died that night) I would have made it my vendetta to take you town. You pulled the same shite that mtf and plexa did when they were red and it was glaringly obvious, the only issue was people attempted to do clue analysis this game (and no behavioural?) when it was established like day 1 that callers clues were insanely annoying to read. I will give mad props to your GF though, insanely well played. | ||
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On January 16 2009 13:49 Caller wrote: c) had to waste half an hour making an ms paint hahaha, yes, wasting part of your life makes it a bit more worth it. | ||
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On January 16 2009 13:55 Ace wrote: first game day you guys wanted to lynch mikeymoo :/ I'd rather lynch BC than kill mikeymoo when we have no idea what his role is. Townies have dumb logic. Man, I had such a good mark too. Had I managed to get him lynched, i was dead next day(town would most likely be retarded and lynch me) or they would lynch me as they did. Only catch was if i randomly hit a mafia and got labeled as a DT hahaha. | ||
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On January 16 2009 14:01 Ace wrote: lol Trust me I really didn't want to lynch you but there was no third option - I just knew keeping mikeymoo alive was the smartest thing to do. Town is full of jokers though so I'm not surprised the game ended like this. I know you didnt =\, honestly man, I couldn't risk the first night, my name is too well known that if i wasnt lynched day 1/2, I was raped unless i was randomly selected to be converted, although that would have been hilarious had i been converted and they found out i was VI. I just played the role in a way to maximize my own chance of winning, It was gay as hell, but all i could think of as even if town was winning i wasn't guarenteed to be lynched. | ||
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