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"posting a screenshot doesn't prove anything. Isn't that right, shallow[bay]?" - Ver
in regards to scaramanga's screenshot
from what i see the screenshot is kinda cut off so we can't see ur name on the top left - seems like the img was resized for some reason
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh125/scaramangaa/lol.jpg
i think its fishy that this supposed dt picked Ver of all people to check: i dont really see many strong clues against him, and i dont think anyone has posted an analysis on him thus far...
if what ace says is truth, then:
1. this dt lucked out (or is super smart) and picked Ver out of all ppl to check (20% chance to land a red)
2. this dt must have some sort of bond with ace previously for him to trust Ace right from the get go
i agree with ver, quit bandwagoning blindly
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On December 15 2008 15:49 Ver wrote:
To start off, it seems more than a little strange that I'm being targeted without having made a single post. My reasons for that are below, but all the same, even if a DT followed what Ace suggested in the thread, there is very little reason why that DT would not check Ace himself as he is at least as dangerous/helpful as me if not even moreso. Lastly, why would the DT pm Ace of all people to be his mouthpiece, given that if he's mafia he's one of the most dangerous/the most dangerous person in the game and you don't want to give him a big head start by knowing a DT. He cannot know both that I am mafia and Ace innocent this early. Thus either this 'DT' is being really stupid or there is a greater scheme going on here.
The fact that everyone is taking this accusation at face value and bandwagoning me does not show a healthy minded town. I got accused out of nowhere and only one person questions these proceedings. Everyone is just bandwagoning from one target to another on the flimsiest of reasons. Killing Folca for last game is just dumb. Clues on day 1 are not a sufficient reason to kill Scar, but at the same time, posting a screenshot doesn't prove anything. Isn't that right, shallow[bay]? Then people voted for some random zombie who can equally be a clueless mafia or clueless townie. And now everyone jumps on me once I'm 'supposedly' guilty. As if anything can be proven this early. Quit the bandwagoning (folca->scar->veno-> me all in 1 day seriously lol) and think critically. Only 1 person so far is even questioning what's going on and everyone just dismisses him.
This would normally be a battle of arguing/my word vs Ace's. However, the fact that he say's he was informed I was a mafia from someone else makes this considerably more complex than a kill one then kill the other if wrong situation. Consider the two likely scenarios:
1) I am mafia, Ace and the DT are legit. Lynching me straight up is best case scenario.
2) I am innocent, and either Ace or the 'DT' are mafia. Here lynching me immediately puts us in a big hole. Ace can of course call out the 'DT' as mafia, but Ace could easily be mafia yourself fingering an innocent person. Or the mafia member posing as 'DT' could argue to get Ace killed. Thus the town gets considerably behind and either loses two of it's most valuable thinkers for 1 mafia (great great trade for them) or loses 1 analyst for 1 mafia, which is still a pretty poor trade for the town considering mafia KP is rounded up.
The point is that except for option 1 the town is going to be stuck in a very messy situation that will take several days to extricate fully and could potentially result in myself and Ace both being innocent and dying from the town itself. Or just as bad, I turn up innocent, Ace as mafia gets the town to kill the DT who didn't check Ace first and wastes two days of lynching again. Or Ace can prioritize his survival and kill the DT in the night. If you blindly rush the gun here you are betting on the fact that I am mafia and are way behind if I turn up innocent.
Thus I propose an offshoot of Alventenie's plan from game 3. Let us both live. Force the mafia to make a decision of who to kill. Unlike in Alventenie's plan, I cannot offer anything more than being a townie. But I am an exceedingly valuable townie in my analyses and plans, as the inner circle people last game can attest to (which is likely why I was fingered for this). And also analysis/plans are very easy to check on to see if I uphold myself logically as I consistently have before. If I don't hold myself accountable to this, then bam dead. The same goes for Ace and the results of this 'alleged' DT too.
Therefore, give us an extension till tomorrow to figure out a better target BC. I can stay up for an hour or so to debate but then I must sleep.
Edit: Finished an incomplete sentence (added 'argue to get Ace killed. ' in paragraph 2) )
Sorry ver, heres how it goes, your gonna get lynched tonight and if you flip green/blue then i can vouch for ace and then we lynch the fake dt, we traded you for a mafia, the better situation is that you are mafia, then we have a hidden dt with someone to speak and we can set some shit up, anyhow your gonna get lynched first night
On December 15 2008 16:01 zeks wrote:
"posting a screenshot doesn't prove anything. Isn't that right, shallow[bay]?" - Ver
in regards to scaramanga's screenshot
from what i see the screenshot is kinda cut off so we can't see ur name on the top left - seems like the img was resized for some reason
i think its fishy that this supposed dt picked Ver of all people to check: i dont really see many strong clues against him, and i dont think anyone has posted an analysis on him thus far...
if what ace says is truth, then:
1. this dt must have some sort of bond with ace previously for him to trust Ace right from the get go
2. this dt lucked out (or is super smart) and picked Ver out of all ppl to check (20% chance to land a red)
i agree with ver, quit bandwagoning blindly
Its odd that right after we get a spot of good luck you come out of no where to help ver, you guys havent really helped each other so why are you comming out all of a sudden in defence?, i dont see whats wrong with this plan, we get either get 1 mafia and a dt with a mouthpeice or we get 1 mafia dead for 1 townie, i'll take either of these
if you want me to re screen im happy to do so
What i think is weird is that you tried previously to get people to continue to vote for me even though i have proved without a doubt that im a townie, then you come to attack a plan that gets us at least 1 mafia
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On December 15 2008 15:55 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2008 15:22 chaoser wrote:On December 15 2008 15:09 chaoser wrote:On December 15 2008 15:02 Scaramanga wrote:On December 15 2008 14:57 chaoser wrote:
ok, lets say ver turns up red, does that necessarily mean whoever said he was mafia (the "dt") ISN'T actually mafia. They just saced a mafia to gain our trust and so we end up telling them our roles/trust them on matters, and they use it against us If ver flips red, we get him to check someone else if he dosent or lies we lynch that's the thing, he can say mafia members are townies as well as other townies are townies and so on. he doesn't have to lie all the time, just some of the time. and from time to time they can sac, another mafia or something. either way we're being swayed by this one person and he/she gets a lot more power than anyone else and at the same time we have no idea who they are except for one or two people who may or may not be mafia. it's all about trust. once trust gets established, we're less likely to question that person and people who we haven't developed trust in but do question them will be suspected as mafia. and we don't have another 100% sure dt on our side yet to check this one. let's just let this play out before we start placing trust in people. sorry about the double post. but i had something else to add >_>;; if we ask this person to check another person (cause they wre right about ver) and they say townie, then what? we trust them? we test his word by lynching the person he said was townie? if he's actually townie, we just killed someone innocent good job. how do we check everything he says? he could be telling the truth till he has enough of our trust to start lying. you could say we will sooner of later find ways to check what he's saying based on clues/we figure out who else is a dt but i don't like to place my bets on the future and what COULD happen so i'm just saying, take everything with a grain of salt. a huge one. Dude honestly are you thick or not reading my post, if ver is green well then gw we lynch the fake dt and bam we've traded a mafia for a townie gj, if ver and this dt are both mafia then we get this dt to rolecheck someone else to get a townie web, if he dosent check then we lynch him, either way we get 1-2 townies or a web of people working together
first of all, don't call me thick, that's rude. secondly, as I WAS SAYING, they are not stupid enough to do that first option (the trade) and if they do the second option (ver IS red) there's no way for us to 100% know the dt and ace are NOT red.
Here, i'll spell it out for you. If ver is red, he's dead, we ask the dt to check someone else. he says he cheked and they are green/townie. now what? how do we check that what he said is correct? you're assuming he doesn't check but that's stupid and would play into what you just said it stupid. he would obviously say he checked.
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On December 15 2008 15:58 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2008 15:49 Ver wrote:
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1) I am mafia, Ace and the DT are legit. Lynching me straight up is best case scenario.
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see, that's the thing! even if you ARE mafia, they don't have to be legit! they could just be sacing you to gain oyur trust
Even then, one less mafia would be good for the town.
If nothing else, ace's post says that we need to carefully watch him to see who's side he's really on.
1. If Ver turns up mafia then we need to check out ace to make sure he's not sacrificing one of his own to gain a list of blues.
2. If Ver turns up green or blue, we need to get the name of ace's dt and decide if we want to lynch ace or his "dt"
Either way, it will give the town a direction, even if the clues aren't good on the next day
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and @ Ver, with the lackluster list of seasoned mafia players missing (plexa, bockit, mtf to name a few) your name sticks out as someone to search. I wouldn't be surprised if a DT checked you and told ace for some reason. Buttt even though they CHECKED you and told ace, it doesn't mean ace isn't mafia.
I either see it as ver is mafia and so is ace.
or ver is mafia and so is chaoser. (unless chaoser is just overthinking and trying to overargue things).
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Hey guys! Just letting you know I'm detective. I'll have the mafia killed in no time
Edit: sorry did i say killed, i mean found out
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On December 15 2008 16:07 Vivi57 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2008 15:58 chaoser wrote:On December 15 2008 15:49 Ver wrote:
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1) I am mafia, Ace and the DT are legit. Lynching me straight up is best case scenario.
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see, that's the thing! even if you ARE mafia, they don't have to be legit! they could just be sacing you to gain oyur trust Even then, one less mafia would be good for the town. If nothing else, ace's post says that we need to carefully watch him to see who's side he's really on. 1. If Ver turns up mafia then we need to check out ace to make sure he's not sacrificing one of his own to gain a list of blues. 2. If Ver turns up green or blue, we need to get the name of ace's dt and decide if we want to lynch ace or his "dt" Either way, it will give the town a direction, even if the clues aren't good on the next day
1) will probably happen
2) this probably WON'T happen cause it's too stupid an action if they are mafia (which is the only real reason they would lie.)
either way, 1 means we need to still be suspicious, or even more so until we can prove without a doubt that he is straight up blue. i'm on;y saying all this because of the bandwagoning which shows that people are very quick to trust people which is a BAD thing. think for yourselve goddamnit! or else we'll be like mindless lamb for the slaughter
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Voting is closed it seams, looks like ver is lynched, lets see how this plays out
Edit:
On December 15 2008 16:07 Vivi57 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2008 15:58 chaoser wrote:On December 15 2008 15:49 Ver wrote:
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1) I am mafia, Ace and the DT are legit. Lynching me straight up is best case scenario.
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see, that's the thing! even if you ARE mafia, they don't have to be legit! they could just be sacing you to gain oyur trust Even then, one less mafia would be good for the town. If nothing else, ace's post says that we need to carefully watch him to see who's side he's really on. 1. If Ver turns up mafia then we need to check out ace to make sure he's not sacrificing one of his own to gain a list of blues. 2. If Ver turns up green or blue, we need to get the name of ace's dt and decide if we want to lynch ace or his "dt" Either way, it will give the town a direction, even if the clues aren't good on the next day
Yep so were gonna get the dt to check ace, i hope to fucking got ver is mafia
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On December 15 2008 16:16 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2008 16:07 Vivi57 wrote:On December 15 2008 15:58 chaoser wrote:On December 15 2008 15:49 Ver wrote:
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1) I am mafia, Ace and the DT are legit. Lynching me straight up is best case scenario.
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see, that's the thing! even if you ARE mafia, they don't have to be legit! they could just be sacing you to gain oyur trust Even then, one less mafia would be good for the town. If nothing else, ace's post says that we need to carefully watch him to see who's side he's really on. 1. If Ver turns up mafia then we need to check out ace to make sure he's not sacrificing one of his own to gain a list of blues. 2. If Ver turns up green or blue, we need to get the name of ace's dt and decide if we want to lynch ace or his "dt" Either way, it will give the town a direction, even if the clues aren't good on the next day 1) will probably happen 2) this probably WON'T happen cause it's too stupid an action if they are mafia (which is the only real reason they would lie.) either way, 1 means we need to still be suspicious, or even more so until we can prove without a doubt that he is straight up blue. i'm on;y saying all this because of the bandwagoning which shows that people are very quick to trust people which is a BAD thing. think for yourselve goddamnit! or else we'll be like mindless lamb for the slaughter
If ver is actually mafia this bandwagon is justified. People can see something as good and agree with what ace found, it's not like they read the name of someone who posted and see "ACE" and just agree with him.
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hahaha i just realized this thread got moved to sports n games
FAIL
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I agree with chaoser.
There's a chance that Ace or his DT is mafia, and because there is still this chance, it's not really worth it to lynch Ver. There's little gain from Ver flipping red because there's still a chance that he was used as a sacrifice, and that will keep the town from benefiting much from his death, even if he is a mafia. That, and the mafia killing power does not decrease with 9 mafia still alive.
Ver is one of the better thinkers of mafia. Sacrificing him, of all people, is a bad idea. Perhaps if it was an inactive or someone who didn't speak up much, it would be a good idea, but Ver could be a huge help for the town, and betting him for a less than sure benefit seems like too much of a gamble to me.
We should wait to lynch Ver. If later in the game, Ace and his source appear to be credible or Ver has some more evidence other than Ace's word stacked up against, we can lynch him, but in the light of the situation currently at hand, Ver's lynching does not benefit the town.
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On December 15 2008 16:20 decafchicken wrote:
hahaha i just realized this thread got moved to sports n games
FAIL
Failing as usual already, decaf. Lol.
Can't wait for next set of clues to find a coffee clue and automatically kill you :D.
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On December 15 2008 16:23 Camlito wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2008 16:20 decafchicken wrote:
hahaha i just realized this thread got moved to sports n games
FAIL Failing as usual already, decaf. Lol. Can't wait for next set of clues to find a coffee clue and automatically kill you :D.
LOL that was so bad, and nevake it looks like the votes are closed
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United States2186 Posts
On December 15 2008 16:01 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2008 15:49 Ver wrote:
To start off, it seems more than a little strange that I'm being targeted without having made a single post. My reasons for that are below, but all the same, even if a DT followed what Ace suggested in the thread, there is very little reason why that DT would not check Ace himself as he is at least as dangerous/helpful as me if not even moreso. Lastly, why would the DT pm Ace of all people to be his mouthpiece, given that if he's mafia he's one of the most dangerous/the most dangerous person in the game and you don't want to give him a big head start by knowing a DT. He cannot know both that I am mafia and Ace innocent this early. Thus either this 'DT' is being really stupid or there is a greater scheme going on here.
The fact that everyone is taking this accusation at face value and bandwagoning me does not show a healthy minded town. I got accused out of nowhere and only one person questions these proceedings. Everyone is just bandwagoning from one target to another on the flimsiest of reasons. Killing Folca for last game is just dumb. Clues on day 1 are not a sufficient reason to kill Scar, but at the same time, posting a screenshot doesn't prove anything. Isn't that right, shallow[bay]? Then people voted for some random zombie who can equally be a clueless mafia or clueless townie. And now everyone jumps on me once I'm 'supposedly' guilty. As if anything can be proven this early. Quit the bandwagoning (folca->scar->veno-> me all in 1 day seriously lol) and think critically. Only 1 person so far is even questioning what's going on and everyone just dismisses him.
This would normally be a battle of arguing/my word vs Ace's. However, the fact that he say's he was informed I was a mafia from someone else makes this considerably more complex than a kill one then kill the other if wrong situation. Consider the two likely scenarios:
1) I am mafia, Ace and the DT are legit. Lynching me straight up is best case scenario.
2) I am innocent, and either Ace or the 'DT' are mafia. Here lynching me immediately puts us in a big hole. Ace can of course call out the 'DT' as mafia, but Ace could easily be mafia yourself fingering an innocent person. Or the mafia member posing as 'DT' could argue to get Ace killed. Thus the town gets considerably behind and either loses two of it's most valuable thinkers for 1 mafia (great great trade for them) or loses 1 analyst for 1 mafia, which is still a pretty poor trade for the town considering mafia KP is rounded up.
The point is that except for option 1 the town is going to be stuck in a very messy situation that will take several days to extricate fully and could potentially result in myself and Ace both being innocent and dying from the town itself. Or just as bad, I turn up innocent, Ace as mafia gets the town to kill the DT who didn't check Ace first and wastes two days of lynching again. Or Ace can prioritize his survival and kill the DT in the night. If you blindly rush the gun here you are betting on the fact that I am mafia and are way behind if I turn up innocent.
Thus I propose an offshoot of Alventenie's plan from game 3. Let us both live. Force the mafia to make a decision of who to kill. Unlike in Alventenie's plan, I cannot offer anything more than being a townie. But I am an exceedingly valuable townie in my analyses and plans, as the inner circle people last game can attest to (which is likely why I was fingered for this). And also analysis/plans are very easy to check on to see if I uphold myself logically as I consistently have before. If I don't hold myself accountable to this, then bam dead. The same goes for Ace and the results of this 'alleged' DT too.
Therefore, give us an extension till tomorrow to figure out a better target BC. I can stay up for an hour or so to debate but then I must sleep.
Edit: Finished an incomplete sentence (added 'argue to get Ace killed. ' in paragraph 2) )
Sorry ver, heres how it goes, your gonna get lynched tonight and if you flip green/blue then i can vouch for ace and then we lynch the fake dt, we traded you for a mafia, the better situation is that you are mafia, then we have a hidden dt with someone to speak and we can set some shit up, anyhow your gonna get lynched first night Show nested quote +On December 15 2008 16:01 zeks wrote:
"posting a screenshot doesn't prove anything. Isn't that right, shallow[bay]?" - Ver
in regards to scaramanga's screenshot
from what i see the screenshot is kinda cut off so we can't see ur name on the top left - seems like the img was resized for some reason
i think its fishy that this supposed dt picked Ver of all people to check: i dont really see many strong clues against him, and i dont think anyone has posted an analysis on him thus far...
if what ace says is truth, then:
1. this dt must have some sort of bond with ace previously for him to trust Ace right from the get go
2. this dt lucked out (or is super smart) and picked Ver out of all ppl to check (20% chance to land a red)
i agree with ver, quit bandwagoning blindly
Its odd that right after we get a spot of good luck you come out of no where to help ver, you guys havent really helped each other so why are you comming out all of a sudden in defence?, i dont see whats wrong with this plan, we get either get 1 mafia and a dt with a mouthpeice or we get 1 mafia dead for 1 townie, i'll take either of these if you want me to re screen im happy to do so What i think is weird is that you tried previously to get people to continue to vote for me even though i have proved without a doubt that im a townie, then you come to attack a plan that gets us at least 1 mafia
Yes you proved yourself without a doubt with a PICTURE. I don't possibly understand how you, or anyone else can delude themselves into thinking that a picture of a pm proves that you are innocent. All that does is convince brainless townies, just as this did (shallow was mafia, dragoon townie).
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3694/sillymafiafj7.png
I'm not saying your guilty, as there are reasons for you posting that either as mafia or townie. But it sure is nowhere near proof of innocence.
Your picture is just as credible as you 'vouching' for Ace if I turn up innocent. Try better next time.
@ Camlito:
Yeah I agree that I am one of the important people to discover right away and this isn't some low probability event. However, I a) haven't posted a thing and b) the 'DT,' rather than checking the more active/better/important Ace, instead checks me and pms Ace on blind trust. You know how fishy that sounds?
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Night 1
As the town has spent the day fighting and bickering among itself, dragging people to and from the gallows, ever so close to flip the switch. When the sun was about to fall however they finally made up their mind, dragging Ver up, and putting the noose around his neck, he glares at them in contempt. The switch is flipped and Ver dies in dignity
All people with usable night actions send them in now.
Deadline will be 24 hours to start, if in 12 i have almost no actions in, i will extend it.
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Yes i see its pretty fishy isn't it? :D
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haha epic clutch dts = win
GOGO TOWN DIE VER MAFIA SCUM
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On December 15 2008 16:19 Camlito wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2008 16:16 chaoser wrote:On December 15 2008 16:07 Vivi57 wrote:On December 15 2008 15:58 chaoser wrote:On December 15 2008 15:49 Ver wrote:
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1) I am mafia, Ace and the DT are legit. Lynching me straight up is best case scenario.
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see, that's the thing! even if you ARE mafia, they don't have to be legit! they could just be sacing you to gain oyur trust Even then, one less mafia would be good for the town. If nothing else, ace's post says that we need to carefully watch him to see who's side he's really on. 1. If Ver turns up mafia then we need to check out ace to make sure he's not sacrificing one of his own to gain a list of blues. 2. If Ver turns up green or blue, we need to get the name of ace's dt and decide if we want to lynch ace or his "dt" Either way, it will give the town a direction, even if the clues aren't good on the next day 1) will probably happen 2) this probably WON'T happen cause it's too stupid an action if they are mafia (which is the only real reason they would lie.) either way, 1 means we need to still be suspicious, or even more so until we can prove without a doubt that he is straight up blue. i'm on;y saying all this because of the bandwagoning which shows that people are very quick to trust people which is a BAD thing. think for yourselve goddamnit! or else we'll be like mindless lamb for the slaughter If ver is actually mafia this bandwagon is justified. People can see something as good and agree with what ace found, it's not like they read the name of someone who posted and see "ACE" and just agree with him.
but in the future if people argue with ace, people will be more likely to trust ace. this game is all about power/trust balance and once mafia gains more trust than blue, we lose, simple as that. i'm afraid with people throwing trust around so easily (changing from target to target) that we are giving our trust away too easily and i just want to remind everyone to BE SUSPICIOUS!
and once again, ver being mafia does not justify ANYTHING. Sure, we got rid of a mafia, but they just gained our trust (which seems to be very easy to do apparently)
and thanks nevake, always nice that someone understands
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Chaoser i know what you mean  . I've just been in enough mafia games now to see that argument over and over and it just seems repeditive, but i know what you mean. You are right, but the way i read your posts it seemed you wanted to aid the delaying of vers lynch.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://stargate.ugo.com/images/movie/default.jpg)
