EPTTL Mafia 2 [GG]
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Kau
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Kau
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About your Bodyguard plan, what stops a mafia mayor from pming each actual bodyguard with a list that is something like: mafia 1 mafia 2 mafia 3 bodyguard # Each actual bodyguard would get a pm back from each of the fake mafia-bodyguards and they wouldn't know. Then once the mayor gets checked by a detective, couldn't there be fake mafia-detectives that state that the mayor is innocent? | ||
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Kau
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On March 19 2008 09:02 Ace wrote: They can't because all the other Bodyguards that didn't get a PM would know something is wrong. In the event that they do that, it just helps the town because we can just apply all clues and DT/Jack power to that list of suspects and catch the Mafia asap. No fake detective is going to spring forward and state the Mayor is innocent because they run the risk at having a real detective also step forward and once again we are back to place where we have confirmed a situation with at least 1 suspect as Mafia (because someone is lying) and a sure fire Mafia lynching. What I'm saying is that the pm is sent to every real bodyguard. Say there are 3 bodyguards. 3 pms would be sent out: Mafia 1 Mafia 2 Bodyguard 1 Mafia 1 Mafia 2 Bodyguard 2 Mafia 1 Mafia 2 Bodyguard 3 Each bodyguard would then get pms back from Mafia 1 and 2 and thus are "confirmed". And about fake detectives springing forward and stating the mayor is innocent, the townies have no way of knowing who is telling the truth and who isn't. We can't know when a real detective steps forward because he could very well be fake. | ||
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Kau
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On March 19 2008 09:12 Ace wrote: They'd still be caught. Ok let's look at like this: Scenario 1: There are 7 bodyguards total. 2 Mafia members "fake" PM the BG's with a Mafia Mayor who also sends out the PM. We will know how many BGs are there when the elections are over. The Mafia can't leave 2 of the real Bodyguards off the list because the 2 that didn't get a PM would speak up. They can't just add an extra 2 to the PM because any BG getting a PM from the Mayor with 9 names obviously means the Mayor is clearly not thinking straight and is fishy. Scenario 2: There are 7 bodyguards total. 2 Mafia members "fake" PM the BG's with an Innocent Mayor who also sends out the PM. The PMs from the Mayor don't match those 2 "fake" PMs. Even better, the names of those 2 fakers never even appear in the Mayor's original PM and they just outted themselves as Mafia for a pathetic chance at confusion. How can the Mafia possibly get away with faking any of it without drawing attention to their members? Ace, I don't see how scenario 1 would happen at all. Unless I don't understand how the game works (which is a definite possibility), this is how I see it using your numbers. What everyone knows: There are 7 bodyguards. Only the mayor knows which 7 people are bodyguards. Now, we assume that the mayor is also mafia, so he can coordinate with other mafia members. Since he knows who each bodyguard is, he will send each of the 7 bodyguards a pm. Each pm will have 7 people in it: 6 mafia and 1 bodyguard. Each bodyguard gets pm'ed back by the mafia members (6 different pm's for each bodyguard) and so they believe there are 7 bodyguards. No bodyguards are left out. Each list sent contains 7 people. Each bodyguard recieves 6 confirmation pm's. | ||
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Kau
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On March 19 2008 09:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote: As I had said earlier, once one bodyguard dies, the other bodyguards would find out that the one that died isn't in their list and would obviously protest. Mayor gets lynched and people get the list of a large portion of the mafia, plus the mayor. So in the case a bodyguard speaks out, we lynch the mayor? Then what happens when the mayor was innocent and he sent all the pm's as he should. Some mafia could speak out and we'd lynch our mayor? | ||
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Kau
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Detectives stay silent if the Mayor is legit, and speak up if he is Mafia Ah, this fixes everything then. I hadn't thought of that. | ||
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On March 19 2008 10:16 qrs wrote: Much as I hate to admit it, I believe my plan is flawed. As per Kau's post, a Mafia can identify himself as a bodyguard, and all the bodyguards will believe he is telling the truth. The Bodyguard plan is not failsafe after all. Unless someone comes up with something new, we will have to waste some detective power as Ghar has been saying. We would only have to lose one detective. Ace said that if the detectives find the mayor is innocent, then they say nothing. If the mayor is mafia, then the detectives speak out. Now in the case the detectives speak out, we would first have to lynch the detective to see if he's an actual detective or mafia. If he's actual detective then we know the mayor is mafia. If he's mafia then we know the mayor is townie. Hmm... Actually, what happens in the case the mayor is mafia, and a mafia-detective points him out along with real detective. Would we have to lynch both to be sure? | ||
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On March 20 2008 00:53 Pangolin wrote: If he is able to tell us why he is pardoning somebody and the town agrees I don't see why we shouldn't allow him to pardon people, the same as any pardoner. Are we waiting for most people to vote before closing polls or is there some kind of time limit? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925¤tpage=18#348 Have you tried reading this? | ||
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Kau
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On March 20 2008 09:04 Caller wrote: I have a concern with Ace's plan: suppose that the mayor is townie and all the bodyguards get the right messages then suppose that a mafia false claims that hes a bodyguard. that means we'll end up killing several bodyguards and potentially the mayor for a mafiaso. not a good trade. The mayor gets a list of the bodyguards. | ||
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On March 20 2008 13:32 bumatlarge wrote: I was gonna say, if Ace picked a mafia out of the hat like that, I bet he would be mafia. In order to maybe prove his worth, the mafia agreed to lynch one of their own, to give a mafia mayor some lee-way when things don't look so good for townies. That would make no sense because if any of the detectives follow the plan he laid out, he'd be sacrificing himself and another mafia member for one detective? | ||
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On March 20 2008 13:44 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: Can I propose we have a detective check up on our mayor? I think a Blue being lynched out of 129 possibilities is really..unlikely. It's unlikely whether or not he's mafia though. I mean 1 out of 129 isn't that far from 1 out of 110. | ||
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How do we know he isn't lying "again" to save himself? | ||
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Now if he was mafia and is just saying that he's roleblocked when he really isn't, then that just puts him at higher risk when someone else is actually roleblocked. | ||
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On March 21 2008 05:10 qrs wrote: It's not that dumb. Assuming that all blues (+ fake-blues) send in their roles as they are supposed to, it makes absolutely no difference whether the rest of us officially declare townie or not. No one's going to declare Mafia, and anyone who was going to declare roleplayer should have done that. But on second thought, I concede that if we are afraid that some blues will stay low for whatever reason (although they shouldn't) and we are afraid of lynching them by mistake then the "I am townie" statement does do something: it tells the mayor "I am not an inactive blue". It does make a difference if townies have to pm because it forces the mafia to pm too, because ideally, every townie and every blue would have pm'ed Ace, so the only ones who have not pm'ed would be mafia. If we had it so that no townie had to pm, then mafia can just do nothing. | ||
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Mr. Blonde, coming out of nowhere it seemed. Mr. Blonde had braced himself on the ceiling and swooped down from above diving strait into Mynock. So Mr. Blonde comes from shadows and flies. Shadowdrgn perhaps? | ||
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Kau
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On March 22 2008 14:43 butidigress wrote: "to attack the three men ... finished him off throwing three knives into each of his legs and three in his back. kau: born 3/31/87 joined tl 3/31/07 name is three letters long awful lot of threes if you ask me... But half the 3s are part of the number 31. | ||
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On March 23 2008 03:08 Eti307 wrote: As for now I will surely vote for Ghar, but I am still highly suspicious of ShadowDrgn.. and I seem to be the only one  you're not the only one eti! | ||
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Kuja900 Ninja4ever. Chezinu zeks rpf Hittegods KF91 str BlindAlbino nemY BuGzlToOnl Kuja900 Dr.Dragoon French_Toast MoRe_mInErAls xDark.Carnivalx HeRoS)Pink So would it be worth it to check these people with a detective (asking how many mafia members voted for _____)? | ||
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Kau
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On March 27 2008 19:28 Alethios wrote: Kau, it wasn't junk. It was a debate which, I feel, progressed the town forward. Perhaps if you actually had something thoughtful or constructive to put forward, you could have saved us a line of junk. I'm sorry but how did the town progress forward? Maybe I'm not seeing something but are we not still following the same plan as before you started the whole "Ace could still be mafia" and following the plan would be "retarded"? All I feel is that this progressed you forward to where the some of us already are, and that is trusting Ace and his plan. @Ace, why did you expect LucasWoJ to die? | ||
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a) they think it's a cheap strategy and will make the game too easy. b) they're a townie and think that it wouldn't make a difference if they pm'ed Ace. Both of which are not true. | ||
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On March 29 2008 01:36 LTT wrote: I don't understand how anyone can vote for showtime. The medic save guarantees that he is a townie. If we just vote for people who are brazenly outspoken, we are going to lose. Well when I voted there were only a couple other people on him. I suppose I shall go change it if we are at risk of lynching him. | ||
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Kau
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On March 29 2008 01:47 Ace wrote: This is what happened with dinsmab which made me suspect him of possibly lying when he first claimed DT: he role checked someone, and sent the PM to myself AND randombum. He told us both he was a Detective, and that if he died that day one of us was surely mafia. With the recent evidence linking a bum to the murders either the mafia got really lucky or randombum snitched. I'll let you guys figure it out. Burn the pardoner at the stake! | ||
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Kau
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On March 29 2008 02:37 Ace wrote: exactly, but also dont vote for myself or randombum unless unless you're obviously innocent and knowing that wont effect the ratios. Actually, even then that might not be a good thing. Say the split would've yielded a 1/4 mafia, but instead, with second votes, you have another 10 people who also voted, and 1 of them is mafia, then you end up with 2/14 and you get a worse ratio no? | ||
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On March 29 2008 03:03 Ghar wrote: Yes, but it seems that Chuiu combined the double lynch list together. Thus in effect, nullifying Ace's vote split between suspect 1 and 2 if we are to have them both killed by the end of today. Because people who cast their second vote on the other suspect will have a vote in both suspects. If he only means to have one person of suspect 1 and 2 killed, then who's the second lynch for? I might be confused, if I am, my apologies. You're suppose to use your second vote on anyone but the original 4 (suspect 1, suspect 2, ace, randombum). I think the goal is to kill both suspects, so the second votes must be spread thinly enough so that this happens. | ||
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On August 05 2008 20:45 Ace wrote: + Show Spoiler + Stop at top of 31 Suspects: ahrara_ - doesn't read or plainly is Mafia because he is calling a pretty logical plan bad (p.20). However, he caught on to Empyrean's bad logic to get the Mayoral election. His plan is to lynch the real DT anyway to see if he's legit...possibly bad, but can be good. He isn't 100% as dumb as he sounds though. aZnvaLiaNce - asking to put strategy behind us the first night, clearly stupid or crazy. says he supports me after the plan is posted. araav - ran for mayor on ridiculous pretenses SonofaBob - voted for araav on even more ridiculous pretenses CDRDude - shaky posts on page 21, calling araav's platform "good" when it was clearly crap Plexa - says never to trust an australian with 10 posts (Ghar) p.21 EvilMonkey - nonsense posts xDark.Carnivalx - seems logical for now but voted for Araav, bandwagoner? Naib - claims Araav's posts make the most sense when they clearly dont, accusing Ghar already Empryean claims DT on Mayor voting Day, so early when it isn't even needed much. He is clearly leading to some confusion among the Townies, and is already starting to point fingers (at ahrara). He "concedes" to me after he realizes it's almost a sure bet I will be elected Mayor, and instead Happily settles for Pardoner. He also isn't "defending" himself with any reason when suspicious posts of his are pointed out. Bockit - complete nonsense Somuchbetter - seems like a smart guy, understood the plan Ghar/myself suggested and is willing to embrace it. Amber[Light] - thought he was smart, but posted something completely off the wall that no sane person would have - I think he may be scum Lenwe - voted for randombum, but posted a pretty good reason for why. Is playing cautious. qrs - thinking way too much about the wrong things,however is willing to follow the BodyGuard Plan and has seen how it works out. He questions almost everything I do, which is good but it seems to come from posts other people make. Hopefully it's just enthusiam and not a sheepish mentality over proving my status. Heros)Pink - saying not to put Ghar in position because clues point to him even though they really dont, is vying for Empyrean against me and Ghar. THis dude is very odd, as even when logic stares him in the face he refuses to look. RtS)Night[Mare - think Empryean wouldn't be Mafia again is a bad idea to start off with. advocated voting on only 4 players and "closing the vote" even when only 35 votes were cast. Blindly supporting Empyrean even when it's obvious Emp is acting weird. L - seems to be thinking smart. Sharp guy, seems to be supporting me. BWdero - puts Ghar on his suspect list just because others have also, bandwagoner? Klive5ive - is very opposed to myself and Ghar for Mayor. Klive is also supporting voting for Empryean. He is trying to post logical, but his logic is clearly backwards. Mafia? Is VERY opposed to myself and Ghar. He even sounds shady when posting as he wants to kill Townies somewhat fast. He also supported araav. Extremely blind support of Empyrean, assumes he is innocent off the bat. Falcynn - Seems to be working towards the greater goal of the Town. Seems logical. Shallow[Bay] - very off the wall, but is posting clues which helps. He may be a hidden weapon against Mafia if he would stop being so crazy. Mynock - seems very logical in his posts, levelheaded for sure Yogurt - what the fuck? supporting Empyrean based on nonsense. Changed his vote to me AFTER empyrean "conceded" his election to me. His first vote for Empyrean was in the midst of nowhere. Falcynn - as of now I think he may be Townie, as he is generally helpful with everything he does. votes with logic and questions stupidity. Hittegods - seems genuinely interested in how the plan works. spoinka - voted for me asap but doesn't post often Naib - also voted for me even though he seems to be second guessing himself GeneralStan - seems genuinely good, smart enough to see Empyrean's shit Lysithea - decent JeeJee - heavily against Empyrean and all he stands for Last Romantic - likes the bodyguard plan but voted for Empyrean and would vote for araav Ziel - supports Bodyguard plan and Ghar, realizes we must carry the plan out zeks -quiet towny, not really bad so far. advocates Mayor and Paronder work together caller - admits to being a flip flop, wants Pardoner Hollander - vigilant in getting clues bumatlarge -called out empyrean to prove his innocent Wysp - seems like a solid, reasonable guy. Has been against Empyrean from the get go. LucasWoj - seems to be a misguided townie, not sure of what to do at all. May have good intentions but he claims medic, and claimed to protect Shallow[bay] the first night. Aww man, even after arguing about the bodyguard plan I didn't even get put on your list ^^? Edit: And did you send butidigress after me or was that him being vigilante? | ||
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On August 06 2008 09:20 Ace wrote: @Kau: no I didn't Vigi you. A few times the Vigis acted on their own. We vigi'd KH1031 though :/ Aww man, I wish butidigress would tell me what I did that was so incriminating. Probably all that stuff I said about shadowdrgn. | ||
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