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On June 14 2024 10:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 09:08 AlphaZero wrote:
im going to be thoroughly unpleasant to deal with in the post game if scott is mafia, For the record i am not gonna stop anyone pushing you. You did the same to me to me D2, letting me take all the shit and no help other than Koshi (and Oats). You may have all the shit today, we'll see where we end up.
Thats fine, im a big boy.
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Is there a dick move analysis here?
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Its an appeal to emotion that I have used as scum before, but the question is: Is mocsta a big enough dick to pull that move.
I certainly was. but it doesn't apply to all.
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On June 14 2024 10:59 scott31337 wrote:
Decisions decisions
I predict you will vote for me.
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On June 14 2024 11:15 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 11:00 AlphaZero wrote:On June 14 2024 10:59 scott31337 wrote:
Decisions decisions I predict you will vote for me. I already am.
So whats the decision?
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On June 14 2024 11:20 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 11:16 AlphaZero wrote:On June 14 2024 11:15 scott31337 wrote:On June 14 2024 11:00 AlphaZero wrote:On June 14 2024 10:59 scott31337 wrote:
Decisions decisions I predict you will vote for me. I already am. So whats the decision? I'm not sure yet. I think Mocsta and DMB are both town, so I don't like either wagon.
None of that makes sense. What are you thinking about. Presumably you already think you have your vote on mafia.
It’s like you are performing the act of thinking but there is no thinking happening.
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On June 14 2024 12:06 Vivax wrote:Ah yes it‘s you  Well I‘ll try to summarize after sleep & work so mostly go over my filter to recapitulate. The latter two quotes I talked about will be part of it. Recently the fact you bent to rayn‘s opinion, and as for early game your vibe was off and we even briefly had a majority on you.
So basically you need time to think of why.
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On June 14 2024 12:47 Vivax wrote:
Why are you mafia ? Becauase you’d have knowledge of every single other mafia and prepared accordingly for the ones who are going to fall.
Like when you acknowledged rsoultin’s read and hedged your sandro read but then didn’t really do much about it when sandro still remained at low post count.
But i literally did the opposite of that.
if you think I am DP you should know that DP would never end up looking this bad in aid of a failing teammate like sandro.
DP would bus hard and not be linked at all to his teammates.
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i get you but we kind of need to vote together with our town reads.
I'm also down for scott, if you could town case mocsta that would be useful.
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I'm finding it odd that mocsta 'rage quit' and wasn't going to vote, but then is not actually quitting and is actually still pushing for a vote.
I don't think that is a normal town rage quit.
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On June 14 2024 14:39 Trfel wrote:
AlphaZero, you want me to explain why I think Mocsta is town because you disagree right? Not to convince everyone else?
I am also willing to vote for scott31337. Whatever seems more reasonable.
Yeah, cause if I am missing something I want to know.
Pretty big disaster if we mislynch here, because probably i will be mislynched next.
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On June 14 2024 15:52 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 10:25 Mocsta wrote:
I'm not playing anymore
Go ahead and vote me off
Last post
Which you can reread after my town flip
I am not voting this cycle either as a fuck you to Rayn
He's just butthurt he got a few votes last cycle. That's it
Putting this game on pause for half a day was really good to crystalize some thoughts
Firstly, I stand by this for post game that the rayn/az mason is an important parcel.of information for how d2 went down when talking about bussing optionality.
We very likely expect d1 mafia received whisper and did not use.
Presumably it is the same d3 as no one has said they are masoned.
I conclude d2 Rayn/az is either town town or one is mafia.
Why is this relevant.
We don't know what was said but we know both players must remain increasingly consistent and cautious compared to theead-only players.
My point is this. I thought alpha townread sandroba regardless of what was in filter
Even Rayn my biggest antagonist agrees he thought alpha townread sandroba because of filter.
I don't believe Rayn is scum at all. He will say it's to save my neck I will say it's because I have seen what I expect from town Rayn which is an intelligent player that likes his butt being licked real clean and I just won't do that. I never agreed that one post was a good reason to lynch sandroba and here I am now burning as if a witch when I bleed the same as the rest of yoh. That's precisely why I think Rayn is town.
Alpha is scum.
His game is a fancy take on poilicy ynch.. you are not playing with correct principles.. even burn as a witch Rayn does not take it that far.
Alpha because he started captivating with some red flags has been a big contributor for the shit town culture of d1 and d2. Again I stand by that if somehow he was town.
His game has already allowed him an out which he throws out ready to go.. again. Town might like this because it feels good yet who else is doing this? Fuckn no one else because it's scummy and defensive instead of solving the game.
I'm not sure why koshi thought alpha rage fuxk you was legit. The post was clearly manicured which completely goes against the idea of rage.
Alphazero is my top scum read. I don't know who he is partnered with. Probably one of dmb or vivax.
I don't know how to choose. I agree with sandroba here who agrees with trfel that dmb could be beneficial to take out regardless of alignment when you to the last scum. Not this lynch.
Lastly Scott who is controversial. I spent this morning reviewing past game. Firstly his games are really low post count yet even going to d4 mafia in some his style/meta is very clear..
Again read this through eyes of town once I flip. Scott is town.
His mafia game is fundamentally very different and more narrative driven.
Yes Scott has shifted since n2 and I believe it's completely town plausible based on:
1. He feels vindicated with sandroba lynch
2. Was assuming less heat in him accordingly
3. Felt more puzzle pieces in place to solve game
It's a natural confidence boost.
The mental state 12 hrs ago no idea.. like trfel i ignore it
I will vote alpha for those who see the light
I have no response for Rayn. I'm town I've been completely honest with him and he is tunneled. I don't have the time to prove to him I'm town so here I burn.. like it doesn't matter what I say to Rayn. He won't take it I and accept.
Rayn again because of this. I believe you are town. Yep that's the type of player I look at you as even though yes I respect you are very good.
[B##vote: alphazero
The alpha push pull plus mason logs combination should not
be ignored.
Yeah Mocsta is town and the final answer is DMB/AZ [/b]
Wrong.
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On June 14 2024 16:14 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:01 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:53 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:51 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:41 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:33 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:32 Trfel wrote:
Read your first post. I respect the work you put into it but I'm honestly not sure if there is a distinct difference that I would put a lot of confidence in. This may be due to my aversion to meta reads though.
I just don't like to clear someone if I am not 100% sure. I've seen so many games go awry due to clearing someone for poor reasons and then making up reasons to find other people mafia as a result. Imo if you just keep most people on the table and look for reasons to suspect people instead of reasons to clear people, you're better off. That's fair and understandable. I think the most important part was the last paragraph about sandroba this game though? Do you disagree? I think it makes sense in the context that sandroba probably didn't expect to go afk for so long. I think it's quite reasonable for mafia to vote a partner early in a day tbh. If they can defend themselves, great, just say their defense makes sense and you changed your mind! If not, you have an early bus, and they probably weren't surviving anyway. Scott31337 being mafia doesn't feel right to me so I am open to that being wrong. I do have a little more confidence in the die_meatbaby vote. yeahi agree about voting early in the day -> you are talking about optionality.. and to me, AlphaZero goes about optionality slightly differently. i mean, i know people say they dont understand my read progressions. yet, this is completely different to AZ where people distill his sandroba read as town, even though he has posts to defend he thought sandroba was scummy the actions do not line up with the words & it is the actions that i believe led people like me (maybe rayn) to mentalise that az townread sandroba I'm sorry, could I ask for clarification about what you mean here? Is this supposed to be a reason to suspect AlphaZero? Is it because he says things about being suspicious about sandroba but also is defending sandroba? Because that wasn't my interpretation of what happened tbh. damn right its a reason to be suspicious of anyone whose words dont match behaviours. that applies in real-life and in this game we call mafia. we all saw in d1 how calculated alphazero can be with his approach to command[/b[ attention.
the expectations for words and behaviour *should* be higher for az than in comparison to for example slam
its inexcusable that a player who command attention can have multiple people misread his intentions in such a push-pull way.
Again, i stress this is not the same as me. with me, people do not understand how i connect A to Y (chose now to right Z for AZ lol)
And yeah, i tsbecause clearly i seem to skip every letter inbetween and go ta-da
I'm not accusing AlphaZero of that at all.
I am accusing him that the pathway from A to B to C is too clean, meticulous and curated
Thats not town play. I guess I thought AlphaZero's stance on sandroba was pretty clear, but maybe I'm somehow the only one? I have a really hard time thinking about this as AlphaZero's fault instead of the rest of yours though, tbh. Unless that's not what you're saying, I'm a little confused because for the first 2/3 of the post you seem to be saying that AlphaZero is scummy because he failed to communicate his view on flipped mafia sandroba in a way that others can understand, and in the last 1/3 you seem to be saying that his play is too clean and that makes it look fake. I guess I'm just not sure which one it is, or is it both? But they seem a little mutually exclusive, no? Also, I really wouldn't recommend sheeping me, I have no idea what's what. You have been much more present and involved than I have for a while now, trust yourself. You're more than capable, you've got this.
Complete side note but... what if something stupid happened, like [b]sandroba saw his role PM and was like, "this sucks, I don't want to play as mafia" so he went to his mafia chat and was like, "hey guys I don't want to play as mafia, I'm gonna do next to nothing, just bus me" and then rsoultin busses him and we're so bad that we still don't lynch him and eventually sandroba flips and there are a lot of associative reasons to townread mafia members, just because sandroba didn't want to play as mafia? I don't mean to say that this is particularly likely, but I'd also say it's far from impossible, no? Maybe it's just me being bad at associate reads but I'd much, much, much rather read people mostly based on their own play. I just think there are so many fewer ways to screw it up.
I agree that this is possible.
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Koshi why do you think mocsta is town based on that Appeal to emotion.
Because he is actually not playing in a way that aligns with that post.
I find his latter posts to lack emotional congruence with the rage quit post.
I guess I don;t get why you find it compelling.
Also what is it with your reads changing like leaves in the wind?
you have literally implied almost the whole game could be mafia at this point, is this like a strat to quote yourself and show you were right when literally anyone flips mafia?
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On June 14 2024 16:18 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:16 AlphaZero wrote:On June 14 2024 16:14 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 16:01 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:53 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:51 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:41 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:33 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:32 Trfel wrote:
Read your first post. I respect the work you put into it but I'm honestly not sure if there is a distinct difference that I would put a lot of confidence in. This may be due to my aversion to meta reads though.
I just don't like to clear someone if I am not 100% sure. I've seen so many games go awry due to clearing someone for poor reasons and then making up reasons to find other people mafia as a result. Imo if you just keep most people on the table and look for reasons to suspect people instead of reasons to clear people, you're better off. That's fair and understandable. I think the most important part was the last paragraph about sandroba this game though? Do you disagree? I think it makes sense in the context that sandroba probably didn't expect to go afk for so long. I think it's quite reasonable for mafia to vote a partner early in a day tbh. If they can defend themselves, great, just say their defense makes sense and you changed your mind! If not, you have an early bus, and they probably weren't surviving anyway. Scott31337 being mafia doesn't feel right to me so I am open to that being wrong. I do have a little more confidence in the die_meatbaby vote. yeahi agree about voting early in the day -> you are talking about optionality.. and to me, AlphaZero goes about optionality slightly differently. i mean, i know people say they dont understand my read progressions. yet, this is completely different to AZ where people distill his sandroba read as town, even though he has posts to defend he thought sandroba was scummy the actions do not line up with the words & it is the actions that i believe led people like me (maybe rayn) to mentalise that az townread sandroba I'm sorry, could I ask for clarification about what you mean here? Is this supposed to be a reason to suspect AlphaZero? Is it because he says things about being suspicious about sandroba but also is defending sandroba? Because that wasn't my interpretation of what happened tbh. damn right its a reason to be suspicious of anyone whose words dont match behaviours. that applies in real-life and in this game we call mafia. we all saw in d1 how calculated alphazero can be with his approach to command[/b[ attention.
the expectations for words and behaviour *should* be higher for az than in comparison to for example slam
its inexcusable that a player who command attention can have multiple people misread his intentions in such a push-pull way.
Again, i stress this is not the same as me. with me, people do not understand how i connect A to Y (chose now to right Z for AZ lol)
And yeah, i tsbecause clearly i seem to skip every letter inbetween and go ta-da
I'm not accusing AlphaZero of that at all.
I am accusing him that the pathway from A to B to C is too clean, meticulous and curated
Thats not town play. I guess I thought AlphaZero's stance on sandroba was pretty clear, but maybe I'm somehow the only one? I have a really hard time thinking about this as AlphaZero's fault instead of the rest of yours though, tbh. Unless that's not what you're saying, I'm a little confused because for the first 2/3 of the post you seem to be saying that AlphaZero is scummy because he failed to communicate his view on flipped mafia sandroba in a way that others can understand, and in the last 1/3 you seem to be saying that his play is too clean and that makes it look fake. I guess I'm just not sure which one it is, or is it both? But they seem a little mutually exclusive, no? Also, I really wouldn't recommend sheeping me, I have no idea what's what. You have been much more present and involved than I have for a while now, trust yourself. You're more than capable, you've got this.
Complete side note but... what if something stupid happened, like sandroba saw his role PM and was like, "this sucks, I don't want to play as mafia" so he went to his mafia chat and was like, "hey guys I don't want to play as mafia, I'm gonna do next to nothing, just bus me" and then rsoultin busses him and we're so bad that we still don't lynch him and eventually sandroba flips and there are a lot of associative reasons to townread mafia members, just because sandroba didn't want to play as mafia?
I don't mean to say that this is particularly likely, but I'd also say it's far from impossible, no? Maybe it's just me being bad at associate reads but I'd much, much, much rather read people mostly based on their own play. I just think there are so many fewer ways to screw it up. I agree that this is possible. Everything is possible. But can we lynch dmb today?
I'd rather vote with rayn on my own scum read thanks. Cause at least he builds a proper case. you are just saying whatever.
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On June 14 2024 16:23 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:21 Koshi wrote:On June 14 2024 16:18 AlphaZero wrote:
Koshi why do you think mocsta is town based on that Appeal to emotion.
Because he is actually not playing in a way that aligns with that post.
I find his latter posts to lack emotional congruence with the rage quit post.
I guess I don;t get why you find it compelling.
Also what is it with your reads changing like leaves in the wind?
you have literally implied almost the whole game could be mafia at this point, is this like a strat to quote yourself and show you were right when literally anyone flips mafia? Yes. I think dmb is mafia. Anybody who is with me early on this is town. Hey, free townreads! Come and get them
Terrible...
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build the DMB case properly then Koshi. If you are so convinced she is mafia then that is the best way to get others on board.
Just make a case that is undeniable.
Instead of just saying it.
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On June 14 2024 16:29 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:27 AlphaZero wrote:
build the DMB case properly then Koshi. If you are so convinced she is mafia then that is the best way to get others on board.
Just make a case that is undeniable.
Instead of just saying it. No. I dont like that. I suddenly have these shivers when I think about rayn.
You are too all over the place to be honest.
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if rayn is mafia that is not something we need to deal with or think about now.
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EPT
