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This game is looking awesome, glad to see a lot of the old-timers joining as well.
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On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works.
Only read the thread up to this point so far. I think the once great town hero Trfel has betrayed us and is working with the enemy.
The fact that he is choosing to comment so much on this technical aspect and not on people's alignment indicative behavior is what makes me believe this is the case.
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On March 04 2024 12:54 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2024 12:50 DarthPunk wrote:On March 04 2024 12:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. I think I fundamentally disagree with you on how the game works. I don't trust any one player on D1, much less do I trust their singular reads. Yes it's true that there might be someone who comes up with a perfect scumlist D1, but without any knowledge of flips, I have no way of knowing their list is better than mine. I obviously believe my reads first but on D1 they could be fucking terrible and I just don't know it yet. Town consensus at least provides multiple inputs so if I see several people who I think are good players reading the game the same way that I am, it helps me to solidify my reads. Let's put it this way. If I was a vig, I would never ever shoot D1. This mayor kill is no different than that in my eyes. Town KP is usually at a premium so I don't think it should be used based on one player's gut read D1. How about we just talk about who is mafia and who is town. I thought it would be useful to get into his mindset a bit, I think the utility has run its course though. To respond to your other post, (and also I suppose I can include Vivax or anyone else in the discussion about Oatsmaster), I felt like Oatsmaster has actually provided some substance this game. He has taken a unique angle in being interested in why players [i[don't want to be mayor, and he's been following up on this. I think that's actually rather decent for being less than an hour in. Really it feels genuine to me, like he's truly interested in the approach and people's answers. [/i]
Okay I like this post about oats and the mayor post before it
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On March 04 2024 12:59 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2024 12:52 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 04 2024 12:51 die_meatbaby wrote:
So the game started not even an hour ago and people making here already Townreads. How is this possible. I would never give somebody a townread this early.
And how are we supposed to choose a mayor who should be town so early in the game Do you think the townreads are good or bad bad. Dp is writing a litte strange. When he is Town he usually has a huge confidents of himself and make this clear in the thread as well. Maybe it just surprises me that he didn´t directly offering beeing mayor and trying to get people on his side. Also before making townreads I would wait for more people to join here as the europeans still sleeping
leaning very town on dmb, stark difference from last game and I agree with her DP assessment.
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On March 04 2024 12:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2024 12:40 Vivax wrote:On March 04 2024 12:38 iamperfection wrote:
can we not speculate on hypothetical wagons for now.
For what its worth nobody's posts have given me mafia goosebumps yet. Are you so quick to write off Oats for not reading the OP? But I agree that I probably won‘t vote for him. He was good last game on MS though, when he was town. It's weird to me that both you and DP mentioned the MS game within a minute of each other in your attempts to call out oats.
Townie points to MZ for noticing this and pointing it out, I don't think the mentions are weird in particular, but think someone finding this suspicious shows a townie mindset
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On March 04 2024 13:19 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2024 13:11 DarthPunk wrote:
MZ could be mafia here.
That associative push with me/vivax is really out there. And usually I am the one defending him from being misylnched by all the bads. Sorry I keep doing this, but why do you think that makes Meapak_Ziphh mafia? I don't see why that reasoning is more likely to come from mafia, if anything I think it's the opposite.
Trfel, the town hero, obviously comes to the same conclusion as me.
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On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk.
The crowd goes wild! Trfel, Trfel, Trfel!
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On March 04 2024 14:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Slam is probably mafia.
good post by rayn at this point in the thread
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On March 04 2024 22:13 JacobStrangelove wrote:
That's a good point sandro, curious to know your thoughts on copcake vs DP and Ray's alighnment from your perspective.
Honestly undecided on DP, leaning town on copcake. If I had to decide now I would say it's most likely TvT here. Rayn is amongst my top town with dmb and trfel,
Coincidentally, you are one of my few scum hunches so far.
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On March 04 2024 23:07 Vivax wrote:
##Vote: Trfel
##Mayor: Vivax
Sandroba why do you believe that Trfel is town ?
He posted exactly what I was thinking at the time, much like the last game. After he switched from posting about technicalities there is not a single post he made that I didn't fully agree with
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On March 04 2024 23:17 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2024 22:10 sandroba wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
[quote]
Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started.
Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before.
Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. Only read the thread up to this point so far. I think the once great town hero Trfel has betrayed us and is working with the enemy. The fact that he is choosing to comment so much on this technical aspect and not on people's alignment indicative behavior is what makes me believe this is the case. And why does it sound like you‘re scumreading him here and afterwards he lands in your top towns ?
It sounds like that because that's exactly what happened.
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I think it's fair for TTT to scum read tfrel at that point in the thread. At the same time the lack of engagement in other matters, or revising the read after more pages is a bit sus
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On March 04 2024 23:35 Vivax wrote:
I just presented evidence to the contrary of what Sandro believes and he just sits there and takes it.
If you consider time to be at a standstill that would make it a paradox. I won't fight you for correctly pointing out I changed my mind.
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On March 04 2024 23:33 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2024 23:29 sandroba wrote:On March 04 2024 23:17 Vivax wrote:On March 04 2024 22:10 sandroba wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
[quote]
I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind.
Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1.
Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. Only read the thread up to this point so far. I think the once great town hero Trfel has betrayed us and is working with the enemy. The fact that he is choosing to comment so much on this technical aspect and not on people's alignment indicative behavior is what makes me believe this is the case. And why does it sound like you‘re scumreading him here and afterwards he lands in your top towns ? It sounds like that because that's exactly what happened. Too bad he‘s scummed it up more than once and you should know better than that. His Oats townread is explained in a very scummy manner and selective too, so its agenda driven.
Can you elaborate more on what makes it scummy and selective? When I read it I felt like it pointed out the things that jumped out to me as well.
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On March 04 2024 23:40 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2024 23:39 sandroba wrote:On March 04 2024 23:35 Vivax wrote:
I just presented evidence to the contrary of what Sandro believes and he just sits there and takes it. If you consider time to be at a standstill that would make it a paradox. I won't fight you for correctly pointing out I changed my mind. I will fight you because it doesn‘t look like a well explained progression. I am questioning the basis of your read.
That's true, I wouldn't say I explained it well.
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On March 04 2024 23:45 CopCake wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2024 23:37 sandroba wrote:
I think it's fair for TTT to scum read tfrel at that point in the thread. At the same time the lack of engagement in other matters, or revising the read after more pages is a bit sus Where is TTT here or do you mean To the Stars?
I mean to the stars
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Not sure about being prickly, but I was just doing some filtering and I think his last post sounds very honest and townie.
I was looking at people with low-impact and some pretense of being a helpful townie, I have you, JSL and VE in that category atm.
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On March 05 2024 00:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
sandroba since you are here what do you think about iamps whisperer thingy?
I don't care, I think a townie will disclose info when he feels it will benefit town. And mafia will disclose when they feel it benefits them. Not worth discussing imo.
I feel like talking about this is an easy subject to feign being pro town/
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Feel free to vote for me as mayor. There are lots of reasons why I'm a good choice:
- I will lynch my scum read, which historically has a higher likelihood than the town collective choice of hitting mafia
- I will identify people who are good and town and will listen to them, I'm not married to my reads and I'm willing to concede when people I trust are convincing
- My reads will get more accurate as the game goes along, so keeping me alive is good e.v.
- I have been historically easy to identify and lynch as mafia
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EPT
