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Winter Warfare Mafia - Page 15

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 12:42 GMT
#2135
On December 15 2023 21:34 marvellosity wrote:
I really am sorry if I ruined anything by my emotional reaction to stuff in last 18h.

It's fine and understandable. You probably didn't.
I am also not giving up.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 13:28 GMT
#2136
First of all there is no way i am voting for Chezinu over sandroba D2 when i did if i was mafia. Not even in the scenario where i am mafia with Chezinu and sandroba. I was the key person to actually make Chezinu lynch even viable option at that time.

So i guess it's time to look through all the people who are telling i am mafia because i voted for Chezinu, or whatever i did during D2. There is mafia there and there is probably 2 mafia in there.

That means i don't care about Slam, Trfel, DMB.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 13:30 GMT
#2137
marv is probably just not mafia. Technically his vote change could possible come from mafia if sandroba is also mafia, but then again his play towards that doesn't make any sense at all (D1, building the wagon on sandroba D2 mainly). So i am just gonna write him off as town, not sure why Palmar downgrades him here??
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 13:35 GMT
#2138
sandroba is just weird... Based on his posting idk, his posting D2 looked better to me. As (i think) marv said, he was actually playing. Also the Chezinu wagon met so much resistance, direct from Koshi, and indirect from HF, when it actually started properly building, it's quite weird to me he calls me mafia in this position in case he is town.

I am just very conflicted on what to think of him, it doesn't make much sense to me either way. Like i enabled him to survive and we lynched mafia roleblocker in process and i am his top scumread? Really?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 13:52 GMT
#2140
On Koshi,there is a very weird progression of his at the time i vote for Chezinu. First he posts this:
On December 15 2023 01:03 Koshi wrote:
I can't believe slam is mafia.
Chez is liability.
Sandroba/Chez still possible.

Sandroba is posting so extra day isnt that bad.

After i vote for Chezinu, his expression is this:
On December 15 2023 02:21 Koshi wrote:
If Chezinu is mafia I am going to note down that rayn came in very angry after the wagons on tfrel and sandroba broke up.

So like Koshi here supposedly thinks that afte the wagon on Trfel (NOT ON TRFEL AND SANDROBA!!!) broke, i came in angry, and voted for my OTHER scumbuddy???? That doesn't make any sense at all. Also there was no implication in any of my posts i was even angry, as i was not.

Continuing,
On December 15 2023 02:38 Koshi wrote:
Anyway. I like this Chez lynch.
Slam is going berserk so if chez is town that is already worth it.
But Sandroba is fighting real hard and I simply dont know if he is mafia.
Marv is depressed so maybe that is his mind coming to terms with that he is wrong.

If Chez is mafia. We have another exciting day.

Because it opens up Palmar mafia and dmb bad town.


But I still think Palmar town over rayn town. So here we are.

Why does it open up Palmar being mafia and DMB town?
Note that again when now, it actually can happen he thinks lynching chezinu is good, sandroba is maybe not mafia anymore -- but rayn is mafia because rayn switched the momentum of the lynch from (town)sandroba, to (mafia)Chezinu.

It makes no sense.
After this he goes straight back to telling me to vote with the "town circle" and against sandroba:
On December 15 2023 03:17 Koshi wrote:
Man. Voting against town circle is so anoying. rayn. If you believe marv has any chance on being mafia, tell me.
If not. Can you vote his wagon or at least tell him why you arent?

Dafuq is this.

...........
But he is supposed to think Chezinu is mafia and sandroba is ???? at this point, why am i supposed to vote for unknown over mafia?

And then into just blindly following marv (who scumreads sandroba) onto Chezinu. I mean like i was voting for his scumread and MY scumread, marv just followed HIS (marv's) scumread to vote on someone else, and Koshi even claims the reasoning is invalid (sandroba's post not disgusting).

And again, Palmar sees nothing wrong here. Palmar loves everything about Koshi. Let's remember that too, because i don't understand any of this logically and i think Koshi is mafia.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 13:53 GMT
#2141
On December 15 2023 22:47 Palmar wrote:
Talk about me rayn

youre probably mafia or very stupid.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 13:58 GMT
#2142
Holyflare, what are his top contributions here why everyone townreads him D2.
These?
On December 14 2023 02:51 Holyflare wrote:
Trfel

+ Show Spoiler [posts] +


#72
- This is the beginning of when trfel didn't like sandro. I think the highlighted part of sandro's post is extremely waffley and bad so like that he's picking it out to pre-empt what he's about to say and get a response to it. ++

#74 - Sandro responds and to me, it looks like he should be town reading slam in #73 but somehow in his original conclusion he downplays the town read. Trfel picks up on this in this post and his next post (#75), indicating that Sandro makes absolutely no read on slam whatsoever even though he writes a lot of lines about him so it's just kind of pointless. ++

There's a bunch of questions thrown out in the next few posts and at least he follows up a bit with sandro. Not sure I like that in #118 he just kinda fobs sandro's response off but I like that he expands what he's thinking to DP. Sandro's post is riddled with open-ended unsureness that didn't seem to have a purpose. I like even more that he tries to question Slam over Slam thinking that all the reactions were overblow and it could just be mafia/mafia theatre. I'm not sure I like that Slam post even (will investigate) but Trfel does a good job of trying to dig into someone that looks like they have a thought process incongruent with theirs. ++

#120 Oh, he basically says exactly what I said above and takes back the town read. Pretty good imo. ++
Same kinda vibe with questioning DP in #124

Next few posts are just a bit of back and forth with marv interjecting and talking to DP about the sureity of his sandro read and it not being very sure. I think #136 the ending feels a bit robotic "I'm very interested to see how he follows it up" is just so generic. I also think #143 is also extremely generic in a way that the post is too formulaicly worded. Like he's just going through the motions of scum reading sandro and waiting for the next step of his programming to happen without interjecting real thoughts. --

Actually kind of like the highlighted bits being pointed out in #146, they don't really make any sense to me (DP saying that mafia likes to take strong commitments early ???). I actually hate DP in these interactions lol, good thing I didn't pay enough attention to them. ++ trfel

The next few posts in #156, #157, #159 are all good responses to DP making wtf accusations and then a weird unvote. I like that Trfel wanted it followed up.

Gonna stop linking to posts now, cba. #167 is a good question to vivax. Not sure exactly what vivax was going to achieve with his sandro question and it shows trfel is still interested in interactions in and around sandro.

#169 is basically a scum read on DP without actually saying as much. I'm not sure why he stops short of outright calling DP mafia. Don't really like it. I guess you could say he doesn't really make a conclusion on sandro too although you could argue that's just a feeler content creation case with more poignant accusations. Don't like this post regardless ---

#257 Quite like the initial points on Vivax that trfel talks about but the second half of it seems like something extra tacked on for no reason. If he doesn't know what to make of the order or if it's alignment indicative why does it matter? Feels like adding words for the sake of it and a bit hypocritical in the same respect as his accusation to sandro earlier. --

#262 Think sandro mentioned this in one of his recent posts but I also don't like that he callously threw out the vivax suspicion beforehand, found out it wasn't actually true and then still used it to almost double down on ANOTHER meaningless reason to not like what vivax said. Vivax could have quite easily caught up by skimming and then gone back to poke at questions so seems pretty mediocre. ---

As a caveat to the above, in this post above he mentions that he doesn't like that DP has fallen off after the questioning of him (doesn't bring back up the other DP points he disliked before, at least not yet. Just kinda outs it which is fine imo. Don't hate it.) +

He makes some throwaway question to me asking why I think rayn is mafia, has some follow up with rayn about vivax's posts again in #272 as if that line of thought even means something anymore. Meh. At least he acknowledges that in the same post and is just more concerned with Vivax's lack of involvement.

#287 Points out that I agree with what Vivax is saying (has a overarching view of most of Vivax's posts/stances). Will await to see the conclusion to what I say before questioning whether this is a good post or not because I'd be extra curious about what I said, given my answer was something crap like "I forgot".

#328 tries to get vivax (a scum read) to comment on DP (presumably a scum read but kind of unsaid). Good follow up I guess, shows thinking about the game at least, even if an easy post. +

#335 A correct take but not sure I understand why he's more concerned about my "overall picture of play" when I've made like 2 posts. Here is where he mentions that DP is probably asleep and wants my thoughts too. Mmmm. Questionable post imo. --

#388 No reads list but Vivax/DP/Koshi (first mention)/Sandro are in his suspect list. Not sure where Koshi came from or how.

fuck me I'm bored of investing myself into playing this game it's tedious af, just gonna summarise the rest




lot more back and forth with DP about really silly nitpicking points imo. I don't think trfel's points are that bad that DP fell off after the push on him and did not much (will double check between when DP stopped pushing and went to bed to clarify). I also don't think his point about the marv push was that bad either.

Koshi read is phoning it in but fine. Shared sentiment.

#428 is a bad post (the one talking about DP sleeping with no other push in the thread). ------

his posts about DP calling sandro basically town are correct and DP's arguments are pretty bad faith

voting for vivax is consistent and I don't think #666 is that bad given his posts previously, it's pretty much just a summary of what he's been saying, not a hipster new read thing

I also kinda liked that he stopped interacting with the DP scum read, the frustration seemed real and I dunno if he'd be that frustrated as mafia? Although would he perhaps be more accusatory if he was town and thought DP was mafia and then go after him more? Maybe he's getting frustrated because he's being misrepresented and can't really fight back properly as mafia? One to think about more.

#805 is a whatever defence of marv. Perhaps unwarranted and feels a bit like his defence of me for little reason.

#815 possibly like this post

#823 does mafia trfel really make this post to a town vivax if he knows this to be true? I'm not so sure he actually does.


tl;dr

1) I think Trfel's opening posts on sandro are decent but the suspicion drops off the face of the earth. I don't like that.

2) His argument with DP is extra pointless from DP's side. I don't think the arguments that Trfel presents calling out DP are that bad other than the sleeping thing obviously which is a bit shit but not specifically what he meant. I need to check the timeline here for when DP stopped pushing Trfel and then went to bed because if it's straight away then Trfel's points are bad. If DP stays in the thread a bit aimlessly doing nothing then Trfel's points hold a lot more merit.

3) I think his Vivax suspicion is fine but he throws in a lot of extrenuous details into it that are basically meaningless and he eventually admits that. He defaults to the same kind of argument that he thinks DP is being mafia for (no thread presence or drive) which is an ok read. I actually liked his initial questioning of Vivax over his questions to Sandroba. It shows that he was interested in people interacting with his original scum read.

4) He kind of throws out some free town reads (or at least pressure appeasing reads) on me and marv out of the blue which I feel like I've seen him do before in a previous game, or at least it tickles my brain saying I have somewhere but I can't really get a feel for why he does it. Just seems out of the blue.

5) His argument with DP I think he was mostly correct on and DP was arguing in bad faith. He gets very frustrated with being misrepresented but it doesn't seem like he cares to go the extra step to call DP mafia here or campaign for him. Instead, he leaves and comes back and decides to ignore DP to stop the back and forth (which is fine) but I think he'd be more vocal about suspicions here on his return.

6) I really think that #823 is a post a mafia trfel probably doesn't make to a vivax that he knows is town?

7) I get the overall impression that Trfel is kinda sticking to scum reads and hasn't had much evolution of them? They seem a bit static, even if it appears he's questioning them.




I dunno lol, could genuinely see him being town or mafia. I'd be more inclined to call him town, although I'm fully ready to be burnt by that position. Feel like I've wasted my precious time playing this game now.


On December 14 2023 03:15 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2023 10:31 die_meatbaby wrote:
palmar is simply trying to convince everyone here that they should vote for Vivax. But he is doeing it just in a strange way
On December 12 2023 00:45 Palmar wrote:
On December 12 2023 00:44 sandroba wrote:
On December 12 2023 00:32 Palmar wrote:
On December 11 2023 23:52 sandroba wrote:
On December 11 2023 22:47 Vivax wrote:
There's nothing exonerating Sandro in his filter.
It's mostly just generic reasons to call me mafia and he can't even find the text pieces to prove what he's saying. I've been far from a blend-in playstyle.

This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing.

In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons"

This btw is a genuinely very scummy post. Not because of it's context but because of the thought process behind it.

Sandroba can easily just say "well Palmar looks town so I go murder train on Vivax", but instead he does "independent research" and comes to the same conclusion to justify his vote. It's forced "case".

This is a scummy post if Vivax flips mafia and it's also scummy if Vivax flips town.

But the good thing is that it locks in Sandroba's vote on Vivax so I don't care for now. Can only lynch one dude today.

The main reason I though you looked town is that you were trying to get traction on vivax, who I thought was likely mafia - not that you were super town and because of that vivax should be mafia - that doesn't make any sense, and I wouldn't trust you without being convinced myself even if I though you were town.
Sharing my reasoning there helps me clarify and reassess my thoughts, get feedback from the thread which helps my read and getting reads off others and also helps to convice other players of my desired lynch, all pro town things.
The way you are trying to set this up and your reasoning is not making any sense, it feels either like pushing mafia agenda or if you had a pre conceived notion that I must be mafia, which I'm trying to get to the bottom of


shush the town people are talking.

Be a good boy and keep your vote on Vivax.


I mean for sure right know it´s the best option to vote on him because his start in the game was so scumy, but when he rolled mafia in older games he just posts random stuff like memes, strange one liners for a laugh and didn´t really try to make wagon like he did here. Like this last posts he made, feeling like me at my second game where I got lynched as a Doctor on D1 and tried just to convince them so strong that I am town and blue.


On the other side i really don´t know who else should get voted here, because nobody looks so scum as he do atm.



Actually think this is a bad DMB post, it has all the components of a mafia post:

1) Throw shade at palmar

2) Say the vote on vivax is correct

3) Give a line that shows caution that it might not be the right lynch because he's not doing what he did as mafia last time and is actually doing what DMB did as town one time

4) Find a reason to not leave that wagon anyway and provide no alternatives




Trouble is, this is just a post in a vacuum and I think their other posts when vivax looks townie are a lot better. Was anyone there and can talk about the sentiment at the time and if DMB was actually instigating or just following?

On December 14 2023 18:58 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2023 18:54 marvellosity wrote:
On December 14 2023 18:44 Holyflare wrote:
Very uneventful day and lots of people not particularly caring who we go on doesn't make me feel much better.

Thoughts on Trfel’s posts since your vote on him?


Rayn post good, koshi one not that great.

Although not sure it's correct on rayn, I like the sentiment at least. Went to check the last game I played with rayn on here because I felt like there was some other misunderstanding bs but last time he was mafia with me and pointed out something similar he was way more likely to back down on it there. I suppose you could say he's backed down here but it doesn't feel like it's in the same way.

A lot of the posts where he is actually saying something just end up in "maybe yes, maybe no".
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 14:01 GMT
#2143
Another thing is the time around my vote on Chezinu.
Holyflare has literally just claimed he considers Chezinu is mafia, when the votes actually start flying that way, he goes on full attack mode on me (like "vote me i dare you"), which of the only possible outcome in case i bite is that i actually do vote for him (and that does nothing).

Very likely mafia here too.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 14:04 GMT
#2145
I have to continue later, gotta get some dinner.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 14:11 GMT
#2147
On December 15 2023 23:02 Koshi wrote:
Let's start with completely removing the idea that you had any positive effect on the Chezinu lynch. I agree that you entered the thread in a pivot moment and voted Chezinu while wildly swinging around you trying to hit anything except Chezinu, going as far as saying the counterwagon Sandroba was mafia as well.

Let's not.
There should be noone to believe you here.

I resisted the Chezinu lynch? hahahahaha. That is just funny. But if that gets me lynched fine. Go tell the people that.

You definitely did, telling me to vote with the "town core" over and over again.

The reason why Palmar might downgrade marv is because he was the main reason we were sitting on sandroba. I mean, you really need to kill marv here because he knows I wanted to move from Sandroba before he did and tried to talk him into it. I prefer you don't kill me because you know, I am going to get lynched and it would be against your wincon if I got nkilled.


Also the fact you just got +20 pages of content and couldn't find anything suspicious on HF is interesting. Not willing to go into that fight again?

You genuinely believe i wouldnt have as mafia found reasons for HF or anyone to be mafia and just lynched my roleblocker? You're insane. Or mafia, just probably mafia.

Extra: I refreshed and saw your reasoning. See that quote is me telling marv it is time to switch and let Sandroba live another day. Sandroba also didn't get it I think so maybe I wrote it weird. But there are so many moments where I said Sandroba is not my own lynch and I sheeped marv.

Extra 2: If you want to lynch me, you got to use the angle that I have no reads and am using marv to hide. That has a better chance to work. But I like that you aren't make this not too convincing so we can still be scumbuddies after you get lynched tomorrow.

don't care.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 14:12 GMT
#2148
On December 15 2023 23:07 Koshi wrote:
rayn. You can't seriously be thinking HF & I are mafia right?

I can think what the fuck ever i want.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 15:14 GMT
#2166
I dont have to read you, you lead a lynch on mafia roleblocker.
It would be just waste of time imo.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 15:22 GMT
#2178
On December 16 2023 00:19 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2023 23:47 Holyflare wrote:
On December 15 2023 23:41 Holyflare wrote:
On December 15 2023 03:01 Rels wrote:
Day Two Vote Count

sandroba (4): marvellosity, Koshi, Palmar, Holyflare, Holyflare
Chezinu (4): Trfel, Alakaslam, sandroba, raynpelikoneet
Trfel (1): sandroba, Holyflare, Chezinu, Alakaslam
die_meatbaby (0): sandroba
Palmar (0): sandroba

Not Voting (1):die_meatbaby

With 4 votes, sandroba is currently set to be lynched!

The deadline is Friday, Dec 15 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in


Slight take back. It wasn't a dead set lynch but it very much felt like it was at the time so now I'm a bit conflicted. Will read back.


I re-take this back, rayn's vote looks absolutely awful, especially considering the posts around it.

Only reason I will consider him even possible scum.

Csn you explain to me why my vote looks like absolute horrible shit? I would like to hear it from someone i think is town.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 15:24 GMT
#2179
On December 16 2023 00:21 sandroba wrote:
Re-reading D2 I don't think there is any world where rayn is not mafia. Koshi called him out for the exact same reasons I saw when re-reading so Koshi probs town.

In the position of you being town, can you explain me why i voted for Chezinu instead of you when i did as mafia, and how does that make sense at the time?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 15:26 GMT
#2180
Im currently having dinner but i hope especilly you, sandroba, will be around today a bit later when i get home. It will most likely be the key for me to figure out this game before the whole game yells to lynch me and ignores me forever after i am dead.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 16:42 GMT
#2187
On December 16 2023 00:30 sandroba wrote:
Mafia busses all the time, you entered the thread and threw a cop-out vote on Chez while still saying I'm mafia. Never really took a stance on why I'm mafia, just kept the option open. You just avoided all the main topics like me vs trfel vs marv vs palmar, instead is hyper-conscious and about koshi and trfel were wrong about saying you voted on townie Vivax when you wouldn't be as town when people are not even considering you for a lynch.

"Mafia busses all the time is not an answer". I could have found all the reasons to just vote for you and not vote for Chezinu, hell i wouldn't even had to have talked about Chezinu at all. I had already voted for you D1, everyone and their mothers believed you were mafia D2. If i had just put a vote on you for whatever reason you would have been lynched 95% of the time since euros were gonna go to bed anyways, and everyone would have been okay with it.

I don't care about trfel vs marv vs palmar, the only reason i could care about that is if i wanted to lynch Trfel, which i didn't want to. Why am i not pointing out entirely incorrect observations about me? Those are the things townies in the game realise and ALWAYS comment on, just because you know what you have done and you it ALWAYS sticks out to you, at least it does to me, first.

Now i am trying to decide if you are just mafia trying to get away of being lynched since people found another target. For other people it is at least some reasonable to think i am mafia (even if it's not), but for you it should not be pretty much the ONLY thing that comes to your mind after Chezinu flip.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 16:43 GMT
#2188
On December 16 2023 01:05 marvellosity wrote:
I want to say this.

I find it super hard to believe town-rayn goes after Koshi in this spot.

I think Koshi has really cemented himself gosh over last 24-48h.
And rayn knows Koshi really well.

He should be making the same observation.

95% mafia.

yeah right, just look at last game's obs qt.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 16:47 GMT
#2189
I am trying to deduce if sandroba is mafia, because i know for 95% certain there is 2 mafia in sandroba/Koshi/HF/Palmar. Two others (+ you marv) are just being extremely stupid. Koshi and HF can't be reasoned with, Palmar most likely can't be reasoned with. sandroba maybe can be, if he's town, or he will give himself away if not.

That's why i am talking with sandroba. For others i am just dumping whatever i have on them and then i am going to make a decision by the end of the night.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 17:44 GMT
#2190
Fuck maybe sandroba is just town, i can't find any reasonable explanation for the whole D2 happenings if he is mafia.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
December 15 2023 17:50 GMT
#2191
On December 15 2023 07:03 Palmar wrote:
I'm not sure how to deal with sandroba right now.

I'm actually unsure how to deal with the entire game. I don't know who is mafia and it's so much effort to figure it out.

I'm still annoyed that sandroba never gave me anything other than Trfel. He didn't talk about rayn hf koshi slam etc at all.

I'm also more suspicious of Trfel by the minute but he's probably a weaker one.

My list is something like this at the moment

dmb
marv
slam
koshi


hf
trfel
chez


rayn
sandroba


The crazy part is, I wouldn't even be surprised if someone told me one of my townreads is mafia. I actually think it's quite likely.

I feel a little lost. And the time schedule again is so annoying. I want to believe I would have stopped killing Vivax on day 1 if he had defended himself while I was awake. I could've interrogated him and pushed him and forced him to look town. But everything was disjointed and bad.

The chez lynch is an admittance we don't know what we're doing. Sadly maybe that is exactly what we need, stall the game into tomorrow and hope for a better day and maybe a blue miracle or so.

This is a very very weird post considering Palmar's position on players all game before this.
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