EPT+1 for the lore
[M][N] Holy Guardians - Chapter 2
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Jockmcplop
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+1 for the lore | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 11:30 Chezinu wrote: Mom!! Dad said that we wants to murder me! Stop arguing! I'm trying to read. shhhhhhh | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 10:22 Trfel wrote: So I think the most suspicious person so far is raynpelikoneet. Implies that I am mafia one post, implies that I am town later + Show Spoiler [Analysis] + On April 05 2020 02:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Is that saying you dont belong to the family?  On April 05 2020 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why did raynpelikoneet's view change? Even if he's just joking around, if he's town, I expect him to have some perception of my alignment; whatever it is, it can't really fit into both of these statements.Maybe he fell asleep again? It's also boring to tak with townies only so maybe we wait for the bloody cobbler to arrive. INITIATE DISLIKE PILE. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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+ Show Spoiler + Its an important message. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 13:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Yo jock. You read things clearly. Anything good catch your eye? yes no maybe so? So far only the post that i quoted from trfel tbh. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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It looks like you are being very sensitive to rayn's opinion of your alignment, and that oversensitivity has caused you to read something NAI (rayn's early prodding) as being suspicious. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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I don't see it. On April 05 2020 13:39 Trfel wrote: Why does that make me more likely mafia? I think all players, regardless of alignment, are more sensitive to people's opinions of them. Overdefensiveness and coming into the game immediately being worried about people's read on you is +mafia for sure. I don't think all players play like that at all. A big example of this is the way you assume I think you are mafia when before this post I had not said anything of the sort, just that I disliked your previous post (I mostly disliked the logic of it until this response you just made). So the two assumptions you had made were: 1: I think you are mafia 2: The fact that you think that I think you are mafia, and Vivax's town read on you, are the most important things to you in the thread (ie you didn't respond to or quote anything else) Both of these assumptions show a mindset that you are coming into the game with, and that mindset is something that I have often seen with scum players. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 14:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I see something "off" but as of right now not alignment indicative. I just need to see more to swing either way. Trfel / hap are where my eyes are focused atm What do you think of Shockeyy's entrance? His tone seems weird to me. I don't know what that means for shockeyy though tbh. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 14:34 Trfel wrote: You're greatly misrepresenting my play. I'm not being over defensive. I'm hardly defensive at all. I don't really care what other people's reads on me are, I do care why those are their reads. I'm not trying to misrepresent you. I'm explaining how I see your entrance. The reason I originally brought this up was that I don't see how rayn seeming to imply that you are scum, then imply that you are town is alignment indicative for rayn. The fact that you think this makes rayn suspicious seems like the wrong reaction to someone's implying that they might have a read on you. Maybe defensive is the wrong word. Its like you feel like you need to react to someone mentioning you or implying that they have a thought about you. On April 05 2020 14:34 Trfel wrote: Generally when someone says they dislike a post, it means they are more suspicious of that person. Otherwise why would you say that? That's a fair assumption to make. Hard disagree. I pointed out here: On April 05 2020 13:29 Jockmcplop wrote: It looks like you are being very sensitive to rayn's opinion of your alignment, and that oversensitivity has caused you to read something NAI (rayn's early prodding) as being suspicious. that I was questioning how you turned rayn's implication of a possible read on you into an alignment thing for rayn. That is a logic issue, not an alignment issue. When you then immediately jumped on my wording I started thinking about your alignment and motivation. But regardless, I didn't ask Vivax about his town read on me, I don't particularly care about that. I was trying to ask Vivax why he was suspicious of raynpelikoneet. I apologize for not being more clear on that point. Ah ok i thought you were asking Vivax about his town read on you. Just out of curiosity why don't you care about Vivax's townreading you? | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 14:40 ShoCkeyy wrote: I think I did a great job. Hopefully Cobbler does too, glad to see him play after so many years. lol As long as you're happy with it I suppose that's the most important thing  | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 14:43 Vivax wrote: Jock I really really think Trfel is town here. He has a mind of his own if I had to name the reason, instead of just being a void content factory. Noted. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 14:37 ShoCkeyy wrote: Trfel from his last game seems new and curious. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. I wasn't watching the last game. He's very different already? | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 15:07 Trfel wrote: On phone and in bed, so not going to quote you Jockmcplop, hope that's okay. I don't care about Vivax townreading me because I don't care too much about townreads in general (especially at this stage in the game) and I thought I knew why he was townreading me (since he later explained why, it turns out I was only partially correct, ah well). I don't really know how to respond to the rest of your post so let me know if I missed something. But it seems that a key point is my "case's" first point on raynpelikoneet. It's not that he has an implied read that is suspicious, it's that the implied/joke read changes. Townies usually approach mafia from two perspectives: treat everyone as town until there is reason to suspect otherwise, or treat everyone as suspicious until they show otherwise. Raynpelikoneet's posts don't fit in either mindset. That said, if I'm being honest, it's not a strong point at all and we all know this. I'm saying it's the most suspicious thing at that point in the game. Why'd I bring it up then, so people like you have something to talk about! I'd say it worked perfectly  hmm... i quite like this logic even if I don't agree. | ||
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On April 05 2020 15:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Lean scum Vivax I am confused. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 18:09 Chezinu wrote: What do you find appropriate dad? Why do I disgust you? He cares not for attempted sororicide, only for choice of clothes. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 18:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: That is basically the easiest thing hes posted that I went "wtf" on. Also, he didnt answer a question I posted a few pages ago and has been "active' while not actively pushing much. Outside of basically Trfe and rayn, Vivax has no real reads/leanings on peoples alignment. Or at least ones hes posted. Meanwhile he called someone out for almost identical behaviour Oh ok I get it. I guess I just read his tone and eagerness as townish.. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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Vivax I already explained, he just has that spark when he's trying to solve, and you can see it here. This is a meta read though so its always a chance that this is the game where scum Vivax changes his meta. He's probably town though. Bloody keeps saying things that I'm thinking and although that's fakeable so early in the game, I find it far more likely that he sees the game similarly to me because he's town. I wouldn't lynch rayn here because he *seems* townie, but historically I can't read rayn for shit so I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt really. I'll filter him in a minute and see if anything jumps out. I like the long post alot. Chez I wouldn't lynch also because I can't read him. He's very entertaining though so best keep him alive. Everyone else can die until we find scum, probably in the following order, scummiest first: haphauli - Not really much to say other than I agree with bloody and rayn but he needs to come and be town or he gets lynched. Rels Nothing. Shockeyy Need to see more from shockeyy but he seems a bit too laid back if you know what i mean. Almost like he can't be bothered. Said he wants to have more interactions with other people so I want to see what happens if he does. Trfel I have explained. He responded okay to pressure but I still think his case on rayn was poor and he pulled out the 'trying to get people talking' line that mafia loves. I'm trying to avoid tunnelling on him though because I've done that before when he was town. So yeah my two biggest scumreads have barely posted. I guess that shows where I am in this game at the moment. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 21:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dont think you have explained Trfel though, at least i have a hard time knowing where you stand on him and why. You're right for some reason I thought I already posted about this. I question his motivations and his tone bothers me. I don't really have a case on him or anything its more that his tone seems strange, like.... diplomatic or politiciany. It felt like he was trying to disarm me with friendliness. He certainly hasn't said anything that would make me townread him and I find myself questioning his motives, as you saw before. He's at the bottom of my lynchpile because he seems to have some logic behind his reads that *could* be townie, and stayed calm when I pressured him. On balance, though, I think if there's a 4 person lynchpile he belongs in it. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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What is that logic you're talking about [quote] The post I bolded earlier in the thread and you mentioned it. I stick by that. It just looks like the kind of logic town would use in deciding early reads. Its not enough to counter the bad feeling i get about him though. [quote]and why wouldn't a guy who is mafia stay calm in Trfele's case? I mean like do you have something to support your assumption that Trfel would freak out for what you said to him if he is mafia or?[/QUOTE] I didn't assume trfel would freak out. Some mafia freeze up or change tone slightly in response to pressure and he didn't. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 21:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: What is that logic you're talking about The post I bolded earlier in the thread and you mentioned it. I stick by that. It just looks like the kind of logic town would use in deciding early reads. Its not enough to counter the bad feeling i get about him though. and why wouldn't a guy who is mafia stay calm in Trfele's case? I mean like do you have something to support your assumption that Trfel would freak out for what you said to him if he is mafia or? I didn't assume trfel would freak out. Some mafia freeze up or change tone slightly in response to pressure and he didn't. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 21:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: the thing is the logic is completely wrong. OK. I agreed with it at the time and it seemed like a genuine bit of logic town would use to try and work things out. I don't want to ignore it just because you disagree with the premise. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 21:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: I mentioned it btw because while it is incredibly wrong i think you wouldn't not take advantage of that if you were mafia (and if he was town). It is still incredibly wrong and i am not sure how your answer (and read on him) clears up the confusion about that because you should be re-evaluating shit when people tell you something is fundamentally wrong. I am re-evaluating though. I re-evaluated and came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be smart for mafia to make a post like that. He has to stick to that logic later in the game, so we can file it under 'useful' for later, unless you want to lynch him now, and we can agree to disagree about whether the accuracy of the statement means we can't give him townpoints for posting it. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 22:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Maybe i am just bad but i don't really understand you right now because you seem to be saying Trfel is not mafia but your vote is still on him? I'm not saying that. That one or two sentences he posted made me think town, but because of his tone and the way interacting with him felt to me he's a scumlean. Its not that hard to understand tbh and I said the same thing a few posts up. My vote was only still on trfel because i hadn't moved it yet. ##unvote ##vote: shockeyy | ||
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Jockmcplop
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Ask yourself this, what purpose does me voting for rels or hap serve town right now? I really don't want to have explain every little thing. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 22:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: I asked and i got a conclusion of "why would you vote for outside of your top 2 scumreads in a game where there is 2 scum?". Doesnt really matter who plays or who is playing or not. That's an absolutely terrible conclusion to come to. It would make sense ONLY if you believe that the only reason to vote for someone is to kill them. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 06 2020 04:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Yo Jock, wtf was were those last like 2-3 posts by you. What happened in your brain that could possibly lead your mind into doing the shit you just did. Settle down there bloody. There was zero point in voting for either hap or rels at that particular point in the game. There was already pressure on hap coming from rayn and others so a pressure vote there was redundant, rels will probably get replaced if he doesn't show up and play, and I had already said in my reads list i wanted to see more from shockeyy. Interesting that hap turned up, read the thread and put his vote on me... It looks very much like just going with thread sentiment mixed with a healthy dose of self preservation. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 06 2020 01:39 Hapahauli wrote: @ Jock "Pressure votes" are certainly valid. Why does town-Jock not want to pressure his top scumread ("mafia-hapa") with a vote? Why does town-Jock not want to pressure Rels? How did you arrive at Shockey vs. the other candidates? In addition, the "order of scumminess" itself leads to some extra questions about your vote on Shockey. Given this list, Rels is #2. It is literally impossible to tell anything about Rels' alignment given zero posting. Rels is null in the purest sense of it. This would imply that Shockeyy and Trefel are slightly above-null, but you chose to place a vote on Shockeyy anyway. Question 1 i already answered above. I disagree with your assessment of rels being 'pure null'. Unfortunately that ignores a huge amount of information in the thread. Reads are relative and happen relatively to each other. Someone with zero posts can be null, but they can be a scumread depending on what's happening in the thread. Given the look of the thread, the low number of posts, and the fact that some solving is happening most of the time when people are in the thread, its logical to think that the mafia is more likely to be hiding in the low/zero poster category. In addition to this, i'm struggling to come up with solid scumreads on the people who are posting (until you turned up and started posting), so the low/zero posters are where I'm looking mostly. You could just ignore all that information and go simplify it down to 'zero posts = pure null' but doing so would infer to me that you have some reason to ignore the rest of what's happened in the thread... Shockeyy is not a 'slight townread' at all. I need to see more from shockeyy but I'm fine leaving my vote there if I don't. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 06 2020 19:12 Trfel wrote: You didn't answer my question :'( Sorry I missed it. Hapahauli's entrance was bad. I agreed with bloody's case on him basically. He seemed like he was just asking random questions to be involved without actually caring about the answers. Now I scumread him more because of the way he came back and instantly jumped on the back of what rayn was saying about me, which looks like a self-preservation move, using thread sentiment to feign aggression against the obvious target. I still want to see more from shockeyy though. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote: Thanks for answering, I appreciate it. I dunno if you looked in my "Notes" spoiler, but what I'm getting at is: you were present in the thread when BloodyC0bbler posted about Hapahauli. You were there for his early posts and didn't seem to find them interesting yourself. But it was only after raynpelikoneet posted about Hapahauli that you said you scumread him. If you agreed with BloodyC0bbler's case, why didn't you say so at the time? To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing? There's nothing really to say about bloody's case on hap other than 'I agree'. There's no conversation to be had about that, and I was busy in the thread speaking to you about other stuff at that time. I agree with plenty of stuff people say in the thread but I don't always make a point of posting about it. If hap had done more at that time I would have had reason to to go analyze his posts or respond to bloody with my own opinions about it but he hadn't and so I don't see the point in posting +1s or 'i agree' or something like that. | ||
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On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote: To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing? I can see how it would look like that. I would say that also applies to hap's return to the thread and his subsequent vote for me. The difference being that hap was under pressure at the time and I wasn't, and also that when I made my reads list the only decent case in the thread was against hap. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 06 2020 20:01 Trfel wrote: Sorry to keep pestering you, but I don't understand the second paragraph. Honest curiosity about what you are saying. What does being under pressure matter for this? Like why is that difference alignment indicative? And what does the last sentence mean, that you have to agree with it because it's a decent case, or that Hapahauli had no decent case on you to agree with? I think I'm just missing your intention with those sentences, sorry. If you're under pressure you need to post reads and figure out a way to survive. Hapahauli has worked out his best way to survive. My read on hap was based on the information available in the thread, that's why i scumread him, because the best case in the thread was about hapahauli. Hapahauli's reason for scumreading me was survival. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 05 2020 23:17 Hapahauli wrote: My posts have fundamentally different motivations than Jockey. For one, I don't consider Shockey or Trefel scum-reads. I consider them lynchbait. There's something about their posting that triggers my "gut", and I'd rather try to engage with them early-game and/or think aloud in the thread a bit. Had the thread not kicked up while I was fast asleep, I probably would have continued trying to get them to talk a bit more and open up. Jockey is instead directly scumreading Trefel. This post triggers me massively. I have spent the entire game trying to get both trfel and shockeyy talking. That, and talking to rayn, is basically all I have done. I have been directly interacting with trfel for basically the entire game and my vote on shockeyy is an attempt to get him talking. Scumreading people and picking out the faults in their posts is a fantastic way to get them talking and it generally works (it worked well with trfel). This looks like hapa just grasping at straws trying to find 'original' ways to verbalise his convenient scum read of me. ------- I'm getting less scummy feelings about trfel as the game goes on. He just feels more townie than he did at the beginning of the game. | ||
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On April 06 2020 20:41 Trfel wrote: And I actually kinda like that Jockmcplop post. Though, didn't you say mafia love to say they're trying to get people talking?  I don't know anything  Yes I did say that haha. It was a different context though, I wasn't defending my posts by saying that, and the fact that I was trying to get people talking should be really obvious by the way i interacted with you and then downgraded my scumread of you slightly because of the way you responded, and by my pressure vote on shockeyy. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 06 2020 20:53 Vivax wrote: Jock what are the things Cobbler thinks similarly to you? His early scumreads of trfel and hapa were the main features of his early play and i felt the same for the similar reasons. If he wasn't agreeing with what i saying he was saying what i was thinking. I did disagree about his read on you and pulled him up on it but his explanation made sense. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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He says he sees shockeyy as lynchbait which infers that he townreads him but doesn't go into any more detail than that. | ||
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On April 06 2020 21:00 Jockmcplop wrote: Why do you think hap didn't give a proper read of shockeyy, even though he's an important part of the game given that hap is voting for the person who is voting for him? He says he sees shockeyy as lynchbait which infers that he townreads him but doesn't go into any more detail than that. The question he asked to shockeyy at the start of the game also looks random af to be honest, especially with no follow up. It looks like he wants to get shockeyy talking, but he hates that i have a pressure vote on shockeyy later. Hap, when you asked shockeyy what his mafia experience is is that because you wanted him to make some posts in the thread to help you read him? Do you have a read on him now? If so, what it is, if not, why are you lynching me for voting for shockeyy? | ||
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On April 06 2020 21:11 Trfel wrote: Actually it might be better to vote Rels over ShoCkeyy. If Rels is town, his modkill costs us a lynch. If we mislynch and Rels is modkilled, it's 4v2 MYLO which is far from ideal. If you are struggling for scumreads elsewhere then yeah that's a good idea. For me though i'm getting this tinfoily feeling about hap/shockeyy and it would probably bug me voting elsewhere. | ||
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Jockmcplop
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On April 06 2020 22:05 Hapahauli wrote: Lurkedy-lurk-lurk. I'm just going to get some food but if you could answer this it would be appreciated: On April 06 2020 21:06 Jockmcplop wrote: The question he asked to shockeyy at the start of the game also looks random af to be honest, especially with no follow up. It looks like he wants to get shockeyy talking, but he hates that i have a pressure vote on shockeyy later. Hap, when you asked shockeyy what his mafia experience is is that because you wanted him to make some posts in the thread to help you read him? Do you have a read on him now? If so, what it is, if not, why are you lynching me for voting for shockeyy? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On April 06 2020 20:30 Jockmcplop wrote: This post triggers me massively. I have spent the entire game trying to get both trfel and shockeyy talking. That, and talking to rayn, is basically all I have done. I have been directly interacting with trfel for basically the entire game and my vote on shockeyy is an attempt to get him talking. Scumreading people and picking out the faults in their posts is a fantastic way to get them talking and it generally works (it worked well with trfel). This looks like hapa just grasping at straws trying to find 'original' ways to verbalise his convenient scum read of me. ------- I'm getting less scummy feelings about trfel as the game goes on. He just feels more townie than he did at the beginning of the game. I haven't thought about my current read on BC. Give me a 10 minutes i'll look through his filter. The point you made about his algorithmic view is interesting though, it explains why he was so angry at my posting, I have no idea how you are supposed to play this game I just play it and do what i feel. | ||
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On April 06 2020 22:45 Vivax wrote: I'm not sure if you asked me this, but Shockeyy boils down to whether you believe he's scum doing nothing, or town doing nothing. He deserves to be lynched, sure, but how can anyone have a 'proper' read on him? ehh... maybe I just look at how hap has interacted/referred to shockeyy and it gives me the chills. Hap refusing to answer my question above absolutely sucks and his answer to that would have helped me read him so i'm taking his refusal to answer as a sign that he is mafia. | ||
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On April 05 2020 15:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Town Bloodyc0bbler Leaning town Shockeyy Jockmcplop Null Chezinu Rayn Rels Lean scum Vivax Scum Trfel Hapa On April 06 2020 05:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The how is purely I didnt find his entrance as jarring mixed with people i had scum reads focusing him. ATM id drop him down to Rels / Chez territory of null read. Here I will update my lists for you Town Bloodyc0bbler Lean Town Rayn Vivax Null Rels Shockeyy Chezinu Lean scum Jock trfel Scum Hapa There is a world (with how you are currently being active) where I could see my read on you being wrong. So please keep up the posting =) I don't like the way he jumped on the jock train with everyone else but I can understand it if he sees my posts as objectively bad. I don't get why though. He's moved you up to being a town read which is confusing. I don't see how your play has changed since he was leaning scum on you. Is he just following other people's reads? The other changes seem natural to me, shockeyy down to null and rayn up to town lean. Vivax, if you say there's an algorithmic way of thinking about mafia and you get where BC is coming from with that, would you say he is consistent about through day 1 so far? Surely that's a way we can get a read on him, but I'm not familiar with the idea. | ||
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On April 06 2020 23:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: He said Vivax wasn't explaining his reads until he did, and his position changed on the list after that. Yeah that checks out. BC still a townread for me then. | ||
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On April 07 2020 01:56 Hapahauli wrote: Oh oh carry on. We both misread each other. I said I had a strong preference against lynching Rels, and that the lynch should be between myself and Jock. If rels is town mafia definitely don't want him lynched. mmhmm | ||
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On April 13 2020 10:38 ShoCkeyy wrote: Sorry Jock, I almost won the game for us D: You played well I thought. I completely screwed up on day 1 but you're right you almost had it. | ||
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On April 14 2020 05:07 Vivax wrote: Not to be a dick here, but this is probably the type of post you should never make about your teammate (edit: Actually never) Nah its not being a dick.. advice is good cos i don't really know what i'm doing most of the time. | ||
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