On March 24 2020 18:36 Fecalfeast wrote: Does Wednesday, Mar 25 6:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) work for everyone or is that too early in the morning for the EU people? Could do Tuesday, Mar 24 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) or if we wait another day I can do it earlier in the day
for me in Canada it would be too late for the deadline, I think the best deadline for both continents is during the late evening for Europe? So that it's during the late afternoon for America?
On March 26 2020 04:47 GlowingBear wrote: Can we just assume Chez soft claimed Mafia?
No, he's just making up for the lack of rayn in the game.
I don't understand this?
Oh god let it rain imagination.
He was supposed to be hydraing with rayn, read Ray=Rayn in his post and it makes sense.
yeah this I got, but GB was talking about the people that weren't Ray
The thread?
? I don't think it's a big deal, but I still don't understand your "No, he's just making up for the lack of rayn in the game." comment
On March 26 2020 05:30 Vivax wrote: That GB wants to frame it as if he's talking about a mafia QT and focusing too much on discussing Chez posts makes GB look worse.
I disagree, I find it pretty townie actually. Getting excited about a hidden scumtell
This is slightly scummy because after the game started he decided to read the setup before posting.
Made me laugh but I do agree with your logic at least.
you agree it's scummy to check the day post when a game starts?
lul x2
Not necessarily how I'd put it, but wouldn't you rather direct your attention towards the actual game content? It can be excused because he wanted to make a joke, but that's also a noncommittal way of doing things.
Idk, I didn't even read the day post before reading what players wrote.
No, that doesn't make any sense.
The daypost tells us that none of the proposed setups are actually in the game. There are 2 scum, 1 blue, and 0 flavor.
The others didn't speak to me when I said hello and asked who they were. They spoke amongst themselves about me. They knew my name. Strange creatures they are.
Ray talked to me! He told me what he thought about the others. He such a beautiful thinker! I asked him about the ones we cannot see. I await his response.
On March 26 2020 07:04 Holyflare wrote: Time to vote Sentinel. Struggles with thread entrance, copies my nonchalant-ness to LS. Reads fake, easy mafia.
##vote Sentinel
"I'm voting for you because you did what I did"
That's not how you start a wagon silly
You did exactly what I did directly after me. It wasn't original or funny, it was just a mimic of someone who is town in an attempt to blend in. Everything you have done is neither constructive nor helpful. Even this quoted post doesn't construct a read, nor does it evaluate anything else in the thread or about my alignment or anyone elses.
You are mafia, simple as that.
is this what you really feel about sent, or is it strongly worded to make the game move?
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
why?
Vivax typically has trouble Day 1 as mafia, here he seems present and quite comfortable.
in my mind, Vivax doesn't have trouble D1 as mafia, he has trouble all game as mafia, so he can tryhard early but usually run out of steam sooner or later. I didn't think anything he posted was that "comfortable", I didn't even understand his joke lol
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
why?
Vivax typically has trouble Day 1 as mafia, here he seems present and quite comfortable.
in my mind, Vivax doesn't have trouble D1 as mafia, he has trouble all game as mafia, so he can tryhard early but usually run out of steam sooner or later. I didn't think anything he posted was that "comfortable", I didn't even understand his joke lol
For me vivax is a hard read first day.
yeah, he usually becomes pretty obvious as the game goes on
On March 26 2020 07:04 Holyflare wrote: Time to vote Sentinel. Struggles with thread entrance, copies my nonchalant-ness to LS. Reads fake, easy mafia.
##vote Sentinel
"I'm voting for you because you did what I did"
That's not how you start a wagon silly
You did exactly what I did directly after me. It wasn't original or funny, it was just a mimic of someone who is town in an attempt to blend in. Everything you have done is neither constructive nor helpful. Even this quoted post doesn't construct a read, nor does it evaluate anything else in the thread or about my alignment or anyone elses.
You are mafia, simple as that.
is this what you really feel about sent, or is it strongly worded to make the game move?
On March 26 2020 07:04 Holyflare wrote: Time to vote Sentinel. Struggles with thread entrance, copies my nonchalant-ness to LS. Reads fake, easy mafia.
##vote Sentinel
"I'm voting for you because you did what I did"
That's not how you start a wagon silly
You did exactly what I did directly after me. It wasn't original or funny, it was just a mimic of someone who is town in an attempt to blend in. Everything you have done is neither constructive nor helpful. Even this quoted post doesn't construct a read, nor does it evaluate anything else in the thread or about my alignment or anyone elses.
You are mafia, simple as that.
is this what you really feel about sent, or is it strongly worded to make the game move?
Who am I voting for?
It's probably the latter, Rels
##vote [UoN]Sentinel
what's your objective there?
I worded it strongly in order to make the game move
On March 26 2020 13:30 Holyflare wrote: Why would I care what you think of my Sentinel case and why does that make me mafia if you don't think it's strong?
so you think it's strong? I still don't know for sure. I hate that about the way you're playing right now.
even the first part of the question is kinda the same thing. "Why would I care what you think of my Sentinel case" Well you don't have to care about anything ... ? I don't understand
why are you like this? Not cooperating, then asking others to do it anyway? I will answer your questions. Because I'm trying to play the game. So be a good sport and reciprocate. Do you think your Sent case is strong or are you acting stronger than you really think? And how is KSC scum in the eyes of Sent?
On March 26 2020 13:36 Rels wrote: and please explain why KSC should be conf scum in Sent POV
I've evolved as a player. I see far beyond what normal players see and I can extrapolate things from a meta-analysis of this game.
Mafia have three main objectives:
Blend
Sew discontent
Survive
The game relies on mafia making mistakes and outing themselves through having perfect knowledge and being unable to think and type with the naivety that a townie has. This leads to the following main problems: 1.They know that fundamentally all cases against townies are bad. 2.They know that all cases against mafia are good (or poorly explained but correct) but they need to discredit them or downplay them. 3.They have to jump on cases on townies that they know are fundamentally bad.
Kelsier is textbook mafia in this situation, regardless of Sentinel's townieness or mafia-ness. Kelsier's last posts are the hallmark of every mafia player with perfect information. It hits point 2 and 3 to a tee.
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
I agree with the read is there anything else you want to talk about?
Guess you could fill me in on why GB is town and why Rels is town?
GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least.
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
Good point but GB is usually more jokey as town than scum especially doesn't do these type of pushes this early as scum like in Battle of the Drams. Rels I can see your argument but I been liking his responses so far just want to see him push the game more.
The only thing i'd give Rels credit for is he seemed to make an effort to understand all the nonsense chez posted and the resulting discussion. I just ignored all of that tbh. Rest of his play has been weak.
We can agree to disagree on the last part only. Is there anything else you want to talk about?
I think the push on sentinel blows a fat cock but I want to see who else jumps on it and pretends its a good case.
On March 26 2020 08:26 KelsierSC wrote: Apparently I have to go to work tomorrow ( I don't as i'm not a key worker but my boss is a fuckhead )
going to sleep now but I will probably be posting from my office with the door closed. I think LS and vivax are pretty town. vivax because he has posted. LS because the interaction felt ok and if I recall he is a fan of outrageous reads.
no one else has been impressive, would lynch chez because he gives me a headache. the push on sentinel is bleh however he hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway , but I don't like listening to HF about anything. I operate in a no bully zone.
There is a fundamental disconnect between the information presented to Kelsier in the thread and his logical assumptions and progressions. In Kelsier's opinion, the case on Sentinel is bad but the case is majoritively based on the assumption that while being present in the thread and having the ability to post for the first 6 hours he has contributed nothing and his entries were unfunny.
Kelsier's current mindset if town: I have seen a case based on Sentinel doing nothing and I think it is terrible.
Then he follows up with a goodnight post (bolded for brevity) that he outlines "Sentinel hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway".
Kelsier's current mindset if town: ?????? Kelsier's mindset as mafia: The case on Sentinel is the only one in the thread so far, I need to find a reason to hop on it and he's doing nothing so he's easy to get rid of and put a vote on.
These points are irrespective of the rest of his filter. Remember the mafia tenets I mentioned earlier? Mafia has perfect information, they know that all cases on townies are bad and have to "reason" out their reads. His filter is full of discrediting people's opinions for almost no reasons.
Mafia has perfect information and it's a beginner mafia mistake to town read people freely for bad reasons and also out yourself by arguing against OK-ish points (remember mafia tenet number 1?). Again, Kelsier's filter is littered with these.
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
I agree with the read is there anything else you want to talk about?
Guess you could fill me in on why GB is town and why Rels is town?
GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least.
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
Discredits read on GB. This is all discrediting reads.
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
I agree with the read is there anything else you want to talk about?
Guess you could fill me in on why GB is town and why Rels is town?
GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least.
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
Good point but GB is usually more jokey as town than scum especially doesn't do these type of pushes this early as scum like in Battle of the Drams. Rels I can see your argument but I been liking his responses so far just want to see him push the game more.
The only thing i'd give Rels credit for is he seemed to make an effort to understand all the nonsense chez posted and the resulting discussion. I just ignored all of that tbh. Rest of his play has been weak.
Says absolutely nothing about Rels again. Says he'd give him credit but also contradicts the credit right at the end of the point. The post amounts to nothing.
To surmise, Kelsier is following all tenets of playing as mafia. He is playing destructively, rather than constructively with his perfect information (he discredits town reads people are giving frequently). He discredits the Sentinel push while meekly saying he'd join it right after. Kelsier has perfect information and is mafia.
On March 26 2020 14:05 Holyflare wrote: Let me ask you this follow up question, Rels. If I were indeed pushing Sentinel as a "reaction" and I didn't think my case was actually strong, why would I ever answer your question of whether I believed in it and debase the whole thing? If I answer, "No, I do not think it is strong" then a mafia Sentinel would have nothing to fear whatsoever and anything I hoped to achieve would be pointless.
Why should I be totally transparent to the detriment of anything I achieve in that case?
I totally understand this from your point of view. There is a disconnect there, between me trying to see your thinking, and you trying to do whatever objective you have. But too often, you hide behind this to do your thing as mafia, and I don't want you to have this excuse. So I'm doing my best to make you play straight, because that way you can't hide behind it as scum.
On March 26 2020 19:08 KelsierSC wrote: First night a few hours after the game begins I am trying to get a feel for the game . Few interactions and give my opinion on what's happened so far.
I call a bad case on sentinel a bad case and then give my thoughts before I have to head out. Nothing special or particularly concrete. Some general d1 thoughts.
Come back to some giant case against me that quotes almost my entire filter. Im not going to spend D1 defending myself from obnoxious bullshit ty.
of course it's not a slam dunk case, but I disagree that it's bullshit. Personnally I was convinced by it, and apparently I'm not the only one. So please if you're town, ignore it and go on to find scum. Do you really think HF is scum, or is it just an angry reaction?
On March 27 2020 11:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Ok time to be more serious
HF's case on KSC is solid and I can't find any real counters to it and Kelsier's reaction has been a resounding "pls no bully". HF is definitely town and KSC is probably scum. I say probably only because he might reappear in the thread and defend himself. But scummy enough that I can put my real vote on him.
The Trfel case was... bad. To me it looks more like grasping at straws and bad town rather than a scum play though. But:
On March 27 2020 09:42 Trfel wrote: I don't like voting early on Day 1, I'd rather wait for more information to come out. My vote will be there by the deadline, don't worry about it.
I never know what to think of Holyflare.
I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment. He hasn't posted much and the little he has posted contains a forced-feeling self-vote. I'm holding back judgement for now though, he may have some sort of explanation. I'd much rather kill KelsierSC than [UoN]Sentinel at this point, especially if KelsierSC isn't coming back. There are actual reasons to scumread KelsierSC, I greatly prefer that to [UoN]Sentinel, who is largely a question mark.
Granted I wasn't here and neither were half the players but the wishy-washiness of the last paragraph is suspicious. Is KSC + Palmar the scumteam? Neither of whom has shown up for a while?
I have 5 reads and in order of towniness they're me > HF > ShoCkeyy > Trfel > KSC. The reason I don't want to mark Trfel as red just yet is because his case on Palmar does strike me as a town attempt and because there's a good chance one or two mafia are lurking.
that one of your two townreads is randomly Shockey is very townie in my eyes
Trfel the more I read your Palmar case the more I think you're mafia. It's just too on the nose. You're very smart, but your reasonning is so focused on a surface level it doesn't match. Like this:
On March 27 2020 09:54 Trfel wrote: Palmar doesn't care about who gets lynched. From town perspective this makes no sense. To me it feels like he's just interested in surviving and is disinterested otherwise, or that KelsierSC is town and Palmar is trying to set up extra mislynches.
I don't see you believing this. It's too obvious - of course Palmar's play is disinterested, if you want to push him it's because you want to warn him of doing something or die or something like that. I have a hard time believing that you really think he slipped up and was too carefree in his posts ...
On March 27 2020 11:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Ok time to be more serious
HF's case on KSC is solid and I can't find any real counters to it and Kelsier's reaction has been a resounding "pls no bully". HF is definitely town and KSC is probably scum. I say probably only because he might reappear in the thread and defend himself. But scummy enough that I can put my real vote on him.
The Trfel case was... bad. To me it looks more like grasping at straws and bad town rather than a scum play though. But:
On March 27 2020 09:42 Trfel wrote: I don't like voting early on Day 1, I'd rather wait for more information to come out. My vote will be there by the deadline, don't worry about it.
I never know what to think of Holyflare.
I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment. He hasn't posted much and the little he has posted contains a forced-feeling self-vote. I'm holding back judgement for now though, he may have some sort of explanation. I'd much rather kill KelsierSC than [UoN]Sentinel at this point, especially if KelsierSC isn't coming back. There are actual reasons to scumread KelsierSC, I greatly prefer that to [UoN]Sentinel, who is largely a question mark.
Granted I wasn't here and neither were half the players but the wishy-washiness of the last paragraph is suspicious. Is KSC + Palmar the scumteam? Neither of whom has shown up for a while?
I have 5 reads and in order of towniness they're me > HF > ShoCkeyy > Trfel > KSC. The reason I don't want to mark Trfel as red just yet is because his case on Palmar does strike me as a town attempt and because there's a good chance one or two mafia are lurking.
that one of your two townreads is randomly Shockey is very townie in my eyes
I don't follow, please explain
I don't think shockey is obviously townie. As scum in your first real post on the game, I think you would include some obvious town from your point of view in your reads. So, basically GB. But you didn't. This feels like a natural read to me
On March 27 2020 13:08 Holyflare wrote: I went back and read Trfel's last game and it feels a lot more free flowing and conversationally asking questions in paragraphs than I'm seeing here. Don't know if it means anything but it's definitely a different playstyle at least. This seems more like state facts, no intrigue?
In my mind Trfel was more of a case maker than a freeflowing talker, but I probably didn't play with him in a long time
I thought KSC had an history of being angry but reading his last few games I might have been wrong. That makes his outburst even worse looking that I thought
On March 27 2020 13:27 Rels wrote: on this part TBH I don't understand you or GB. I don't see how him not voting early makes him scummy.
I didn't say it did necessarily but why even have hesitance? It's not like your vote can't move once you have placed it and an added vote count creates pressure to the intended person you are voting, otherwise what's the pressure at all?
If he agrees with my case, had further points to add to it about Kelsier's stance on LS then it's kind of strange suddenly to NOT be certain about where to place your vote and to be suddenly "conflicted" that Palmar, his other new scum read, is also voting Kelsier?
It's just a line of text in a vote thread, what's the big deal about not being sure? It creates pressure and shows your INTENTION throughout the game to give players more information about where your head was at at any given time.
I mean, yes to everything, in a perfect world that's right ... but in my experience it's common for certain townies to hold their vote when they're not sure, so that's kind of a moot point in my opinion
In addition to the other things on Trfel, this post feels pretty fake to me.
On March 27 2020 11:01 Trfel wrote: GlowingBear and everyone else, care to respond to the actual points I've raised instead of meaningless nonsense?
Getting kinda sick of this.
Yes, I'm confused because one of my main scumreads is voting for the other one. I'm not confident enough in my reads to vote, given the circumstance. If you have any actual help or comments on my reads to help sort this out, I would really appreciate it.
Otherwise, BUGGER OFF.
I've read the fitler of his last game yesterday, and I feel like he was much more nice and apologetic. This BUGGER OFF seems pretty fake to me.
On March 27 2020 22:07 Palmar wrote: I think we should lynch shockeyy over sentinel KSC?
How do you feel about this?
I liked what I read from shockeyy , so not for it.
Why would you want to?
He got mad when I called him mafia and felt it was random, yet until that point in the game he had done nothing except vote for Blazinhand? Feels oversensitive.
His first two posts in the game were both excuses even when bunch of people weren't even in the thread. He was telling us how he was totally not just afk, just doing something else.
He made some weird association between me and holyflare.
He has done very, very minimal amount of work for town.
gonna look at the weird association thing, everything else seems pretty meh to me. Especially since I think shockey is the kind of player to get angry easily?
on the other side, you don't think his weird aggressivity towards HF makes more sense as town than as scum?
the only thing I don't like is how he defended Sent, how he did it was weird, like he was so sure he was a townie playing antitown
I don't think his theory "HF is scum and Trfel/Palmar agreeing with him is weird so one of them is scum" is scummy though, I could see him as town making a dumb theory like this, it might even show that he's trying to make sense of the game
On March 28 2020 00:29 GlowingBear wrote: HF's case is bad and you all should know it.
I have been trying to have a conversation with him but he refuses to. When I attacked his case, he simply ignored it. Because he knows his case isn't good.
This is Mafia Holyflare 100%. He is selective, he is boring, he acts like an emotional bitch. He just wants to convince people Kelsier is Mafia instead of trying to actually trying to sort everyone out.
You can win this game by killing him. If not, it will be another game where HF is glaringly Mafia but people refuses to believe
##Unvote ##Vote: Holyflare
HF is always difficult to read, but TBH this game I don't see what you see. He seems pretty reasonnable to me, I don't see him hiding behind emotional outbursts like you said? I like how he attacked me when I challenged him, just enough to see my mindset, but not overly aggressively
On March 28 2020 02:03 LightningStrike wrote: As for HF being scum: DMA said he was town earlier.
DMA?
Dick Move Analysis like he would be to much of a dick to not be town for that action.
do you think HF can't be a jerk as scum?
I doubt that he can do this post as scum:
On March 27 2020 08:46 Holyflare wrote:
On March 27 2020 03:20 GlowingBear wrote:
On March 26 2020 14:01 Holyflare wrote:
On March 26 2020 12:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote: If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia.
For saying the wagon on me is bleh? I think it's too early in the game for that to be a scum read
On March 26 2020 13:36 Rels wrote: and please explain why KSC should be conf scum in Sent POV
I've evolved as a player. I see far beyond what normal players see and I can extrapolate things from a meta-analysis of this game.
Mafia have three main objectives:
Blend
Sew discontent
Survive
The game relies on mafia making mistakes and outing themselves through having perfect knowledge and being unable to think and type with the naivety that a townie has. This leads to the following main problems: 1.They know that fundamentally all cases against townies are bad. 2.They know that all cases against mafia are good (or poorly explained but correct) but they need to discredit them or downplay them. 3.They have to jump on cases on townies that they know are fundamentally bad.
Kelsier is textbook mafia in this situation, regardless of Sentinel's townieness or mafia-ness. Kelsier's last posts are the hallmark of every mafia player with perfect information. It hits point 2 and 3 to a tee.
On March 26 2020 08:15 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 08:13 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 08:10 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:52 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:48 KelsierSC wrote: [quote]
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
Good point but GB is usually more jokey as town than scum especially doesn't do these type of pushes this early as scum like in Battle of the Drams. Rels I can see your argument but I been liking his responses so far just want to see him push the game more.
The only thing i'd give Rels credit for is he seemed to make an effort to understand all the nonsense chez posted and the resulting discussion. I just ignored all of that tbh. Rest of his play has been weak.
We can agree to disagree on the last part only. Is there anything else you want to talk about?
I think the push on sentinel blows a fat cock but I want to see who else jumps on it and pretends its a good case.
On March 26 2020 08:26 KelsierSC wrote: Apparently I have to go to work tomorrow ( I don't as i'm not a key worker but my boss is a fuckhead )
going to sleep now but I will probably be posting from my office with the door closed. I think LS and vivax are pretty town. vivax because he has posted. LS because the interaction felt ok and if I recall he is a fan of outrageous reads.
no one else has been impressive, would lynch chez because he gives me a headache. the push on sentinel is bleh however he hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway , but I don't like listening to HF about anything. I operate in a no bully zone.
There is a fundamental disconnect between the information presented to Kelsier in the thread and his logical assumptions and progressions. In Kelsier's opinion, the case on Sentinel is bad but the case is majoritively based on the assumption that while being present in the thread and having the ability to post for the first 6 hours he has contributed nothing and his entries were unfunny.
Kelsier's current mindset if town: I have seen a case based on Sentinel doing nothing and I think it is terrible.
Then he follows up with a goodnight post (bolded for brevity) that he outlines "Sentinel hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway".
Kelsier's current mindset if town: ?????? Kelsier's mindset as mafia: The case on Sentinel is the only one in the thread so far, I need to find a reason to hop on it and he's doing nothing so he's easy to get rid of and put a vote on.
These points are irrespective of the rest of his filter. Remember the mafia tenets I mentioned earlier? Mafia has perfect information, they know that all cases on townies are bad and have to "reason" out their reads. His filter is full of discrediting people's opinions for almost no reasons.
Mafia has perfect information and it's a beginner mafia mistake to town read people freely for bad reasons and also out yourself by arguing against OK-ish points (remember mafia tenet number 1?). Again, Kelsier's filter is littered with these.
On March 26 2020 04:25 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 04:15 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 04:04 Vivax wrote:
On March 26 2020 03:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On March 26 2020 03:03 Fecalfeast wrote:
Setup Information
The exact roles in this game are as follows:
Antivaxxer Coughing Boomer
American Doctor 8x Healthy Boomer
fixed
This is slightly scummy because after the game started he decided to read the setup before posting.
Made me laugh but I do agree with your logic at least.
you agree it's scummy to check the day post when a game starts?
lul x2
Discredits a read for no reason. Makes no conclusions.
On March 26 2020 06:59 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
last thing I remember is he is AFK as fuck as mafia, so not a bad read.
Jumps on giving a free town read to Vivax even though this is not his meta.
On March 26 2020 07:48 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:37 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:09 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 06:27 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
I agree with the read is there anything else you want to talk about?
Guess you could fill me in on why GB is town and why Rels is town?
GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least.
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
Discredits read on GB. This is all discrediting reads.
On March 26 2020 08:10 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:52 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:48 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:37 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:09 KelsierSC wrote: [quote]
Guess you could fill me in on why GB is town and why Rels is town?
GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least.
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
Good point but GB is usually more jokey as town than scum especially doesn't do these type of pushes this early as scum like in Battle of the Drams. Rels I can see your argument but I been liking his responses so far just want to see him push the game more.
The only thing i'd give Rels credit for is he seemed to make an effort to understand all the nonsense chez posted and the resulting discussion. I just ignored all of that tbh. Rest of his play has been weak.
Says absolutely nothing about Rels again. Says he'd give him credit but also contradicts the credit right at the end of the point. The post amounts to nothing.
To surmise, Kelsier is following all tenets of playing as mafia. He is playing destructively, rather than constructively with his perfect information (he discredits town reads people are giving frequently). He discredits the Sentinel push while meekly saying he'd join it right after. Kelsier has perfect information and is mafia.
Funny, this case is basically about Kelsier but you're voting Sentinel. This is so bad.
On March 26 2020 19:08 KelsierSC wrote: First night a few hours after the game begins I am trying to get a feel for the game . Few interactions and give my opinion on what's happened so far.
I call a bad case on sentinel a bad case and then give my thoughts before I have to head out. Nothing special or particularly concrete. Some general d1 thoughts.
Come back to some giant case against me that quotes almost my entire filter. Im not going to spend D1 defending myself from obnoxious bullshit ty.
On March 26 2020 19:37 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 19:33 Holyflare wrote:
On March 26 2020 19:08 KelsierSC wrote: First night a few hours after the game begins I am trying to get a feel for the game . Few interactions and give my opinion on what's happened so far.
I call a bad case on sentinel a bad case and then give my thoughts before I have to head out. Nothing special or particularly concrete. Some general d1 thoughts.
Come back to some giant case against me that quotes almost my entire filter. Im not going to spend D1 defending myself from obnoxious bullshit ty.
So you're establishing that you attack me personally and blame the death of the forum on me/my playstyle because I play the game of mafia?
You arent playing mafia you are a bully hiding behind your screen. Got no time for you
On March 26 2020 22:56 LightningStrike wrote: Just woke up and saw HF also casing KSC although it not the worst case in the world but I aint biting it and KSC's reaction though seems very over the top? Dunno how to feel about that. Palmar's entrance is meh. I hope someone can actually help me read HF this game....
On March 27 2020 03:25 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On March 27 2020 03:20 GlowingBear wrote:
And this is basically what's interesting right now.
Holyflare is mafia, he's pushing Kelsier while voting Sentinel. It doesn't make sense. I don't believe he is trying to solve the game, but he's just trying to fit people's post in a narrative to push his mafia agenda.
##Vote: Holyflare
I also found this interesting as well. I don't get the push on either or, which is why I didn't even buy into it, yet Palmar followed along anyways.
On March 27 2020 03:52 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 27 2020 03:20 GlowingBear wrote:
On March 26 2020 10:12 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 08:56 GlowingBear wrote: LS, I was pushing Rels just to get some traction in the thread.
HF, is Vivax town?
And what you got out of that push onto Rels?
Nothing, I was just getting traction.
On March 26 2020 10:17 Chezinu wrote:
On March 26 2020 09:49 GlowingBear wrote: zZz
Hello! Wakey wakey little teddy bear! oh how memorizing you are! Please speak to me!
Chez I'll speak! Are you mafia?
On March 26 2020 11:31 Trfel wrote:
On March 26 2020 10:58 Rels wrote:
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
why?
Vivax typically has trouble Day 1 as mafia, here he seems present and quite comfortable.
This is in the past, Trfel. Last game I've played with him he was very capable as mafia.
On March 26 2020 14:01 Holyflare wrote:
On March 26 2020 12:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote: If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia.
For saying the wagon on me is bleh? I think it's too early in the game for that to be a scum read
On March 26 2020 13:36 Rels wrote: and please explain why KSC should be conf scum in Sent POV
I've evolved as a player. I see far beyond what normal players see and I can extrapolate things from a meta-analysis of this game.
Mafia have three main objectives:
Blend
Sew discontent
Survive
The game relies on mafia making mistakes and outing themselves through having perfect knowledge and being unable to think and type with the naivety that a townie has. This leads to the following main problems: 1.They know that fundamentally all cases against townies are bad. 2.They know that all cases against mafia are good (or poorly explained but correct) but they need to discredit them or downplay them. 3.They have to jump on cases on townies that they know are fundamentally bad.
Kelsier is textbook mafia in this situation, regardless of Sentinel's townieness or mafia-ness. Kelsier's last posts are the hallmark of every mafia player with perfect information. It hits point 2 and 3 to a tee.
On March 26 2020 08:15 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 08:13 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 08:10 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:52 LightningStrike wrote: [quote] Good point but GB is usually more jokey as town than scum especially doesn't do these type of pushes this early as scum like in Battle of the Drams. Rels I can see your argument but I been liking his responses so far just want to see him push the game more.
The only thing i'd give Rels credit for is he seemed to make an effort to understand all the nonsense chez posted and the resulting discussion. I just ignored all of that tbh. Rest of his play has been weak.
We can agree to disagree on the last part only. Is there anything else you want to talk about?
I think the push on sentinel blows a fat cock but I want to see who else jumps on it and pretends its a good case.
On March 26 2020 08:26 KelsierSC wrote: Apparently I have to go to work tomorrow ( I don't as i'm not a key worker but my boss is a fuckhead )
going to sleep now but I will probably be posting from my office with the door closed. I think LS and vivax are pretty town. vivax because he has posted. LS because the interaction felt ok and if I recall he is a fan of outrageous reads.
no one else has been impressive, would lynch chez because he gives me a headache. the push on sentinel is bleh however he hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway , but I don't like listening to HF about anything. I operate in a no bully zone.
There is a fundamental disconnect between the information presented to Kelsier in the thread and his logical assumptions and progressions. In Kelsier's opinion, the case on Sentinel is bad but the case is majoritively based on the assumption that while being present in the thread and having the ability to post for the first 6 hours he has contributed nothing and his entries were unfunny.
Kelsier's current mindset if town: I have seen a case based on Sentinel doing nothing and I think it is terrible.
Then he follows up with a goodnight post (bolded for brevity) that he outlines "Sentinel hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway".
Kelsier's current mindset if town: ?????? Kelsier's mindset as mafia: The case on Sentinel is the only one in the thread so far, I need to find a reason to hop on it and he's doing nothing so he's easy to get rid of and put a vote on.
These points are irrespective of the rest of his filter. Remember the mafia tenets I mentioned earlier? Mafia has perfect information, they know that all cases on townies are bad and have to "reason" out their reads. His filter is full of discrediting people's opinions for almost no reasons.
Mafia has perfect information and it's a beginner mafia mistake to town read people freely for bad reasons and also out yourself by arguing against OK-ish points (remember mafia tenet number 1?). Again, Kelsier's filter is littered with these.
On March 26 2020 04:25 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 04:15 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 04:04 Vivax wrote:
On March 26 2020 03:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: [quote] fixed
This is slightly scummy because after the game started he decided to read the setup before posting.
Made me laugh but I do agree with your logic at least.
you agree it's scummy to check the day post when a game starts?
lul x2
Discredits a read for no reason. Makes no conclusions.
On March 26 2020 06:59 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
last thing I remember is he is AFK as fuck as mafia, so not a bad read.
Jumps on giving a free town read to Vivax even though this is not his meta.
On March 26 2020 07:48 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:37 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:09 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 06:27 LightningStrike wrote: [quote] I agree with the read is there anything else you want to talk about?
Guess you could fill me in on why GB is town and why Rels is town?
GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least.
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
Discredits read on GB. This is all discrediting reads.
On March 26 2020 08:10 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:52 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:48 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:37 LightningStrike wrote: [quote] GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least.
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
Good point but GB is usually more jokey as town than scum especially doesn't do these type of pushes this early as scum like in Battle of the Drams. Rels I can see your argument but I been liking his responses so far just want to see him push the game more.
The only thing i'd give Rels credit for is he seemed to make an effort to understand all the nonsense chez posted and the resulting discussion. I just ignored all of that tbh. Rest of his play has been weak.
Says absolutely nothing about Rels again. Says he'd give him credit but also contradicts the credit right at the end of the point. The post amounts to nothing.
To surmise, Kelsier is following all tenets of playing as mafia. He is playing destructively, rather than constructively with his perfect information (he discredits town reads people are giving frequently). He discredits the Sentinel push while meekly saying he'd join it right after. Kelsier has perfect information and is mafia.
Funny, this case is basically about Kelsier but you're voting Sentinel. This is so bad.
On March 26 2020 15:10 Trfel wrote: Holyflare's points on KelsierSC make sense to me. I also don't understand why KelsierSC thinks LightningStrike is town after repeatedly saying all of his reads are bad. Feels really arbitrary.
However I also don't understand why Holyflare calls out [UoN]Sentinel specifically for not scumreading KelsierSC when he later says that [UoN]Sentinel's alignment doesn't affect his case on KelsierSC? I'm very confused by this.
Worst post on thread yet. Are these points alignment indicative? What do you believe these guys are? Town? Mafia?
On March 26 2020 18:32 Palmar wrote: also the pool of mafia is like trfel, shockeyy, ksc and sentinel.
Just lynch those 4 and the game is over.
Care to explain? At least explain why you're leaving Chez out.
---
And this is basically what's interesting right now.
Holyflare is mafia, he's pushing Kelsier while voting Sentinel. It doesn't make sense. I don't believe he is trying to solve the game, but he's just trying to fit people's post in a narrative to push his mafia agenda.
##Vote: Holyflare
So I wasn't the only one who actually thought this as well even I didn't say it in the thread but I been thinking that for sure. I will vote HF with you. ##Vote: Holyflare
On March 26 2020 12:27 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On March 26 2020 12:04 Holyflare wrote:
On March 26 2020 11:10 Rels wrote:
On March 26 2020 10:23 Holyflare wrote:
On March 26 2020 08:54 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:04 Holyflare wrote: Time to vote Sentinel. Struggles with thread entrance, copies my nonchalant-ness to LS. Reads fake, easy mafia.
##vote Sentinel
"I'm voting for you because you did what I did"
That's not how you start a wagon silly
You did exactly what I did directly after me. It wasn't original or funny, it was just a mimic of someone who is town in an attempt to blend in. Everything you have done is neither constructive nor helpful. Even this quoted post doesn't construct a read, nor does it evaluate anything else in the thread or about my alignment or anyone elses.
You are mafia, simple as that.
is this what you really feel about sent, or is it strongly worded to make the game move?
Who am I voting for?
It's probably the latter, Rels
##vote [UoN]Sentinel
These posts, afking and work commitments are why this forum is dead and others thrive.
You post a long case and people agree with it (which is fine because they actually elaborated on reasons why) but other people disagree with it and say absolutely nothing relevant to any of the points within it. There is no debate about what points are constructed or what points make someone mafia, there is no push for me because someone thinks this is a narrative (instead, there is a push for me because people can't read the voting thread). This forum is plagued by people talking AT each other saying meagre sentences like "I think he is town" or "I think he is mafia" and no actual discourse about any points anyone raises.
This was the post that alerted my DMA stuff.
He can 100% do this as Mafia. Anyone can do this as Mafia. Whining is very easy to do.
GB I'm sorry I don't see it. I understand what it feels like too - there was one game where I was 100% sure HF was scum, and I was so scared that he would escape his lynch. I pushed him all day. I made sure he was dead, I was sure that he would get away at the last second.
Trfel I read everything you wrote and I've responded to you:
On March 27 2020 12:43 Rels wrote: Trfel the more I read your Palmar case the more I think you're mafia. It's just too on the nose. You're very smart, but your reasonning is so focused on a surface level it doesn't match. Like this:
On March 27 2020 09:54 Trfel wrote: Palmar doesn't care about who gets lynched. From town perspective this makes no sense. To me it feels like he's just interested in surviving and is disinterested otherwise, or that KelsierSC is town and Palmar is trying to set up extra mislynches.
I don't see you believing this. It's too obvious - of course Palmar's play is disinterested, if you want to push him it's because you want to warn him of doing something or die or something like that. I have a hard time believing that you really think he slipped up and was too carefree in his posts ...
On March 28 2020 02:31 Rels wrote: Trfel I read everything you wrote and I've responded to you:
On March 27 2020 12:43 Rels wrote: Trfel the more I read your Palmar case the more I think you're mafia. It's just too on the nose. You're very smart, but your reasonning is so focused on a surface level it doesn't match. Like this:
On March 27 2020 09:54 Trfel wrote: Palmar doesn't care about who gets lynched. From town perspective this makes no sense. To me it feels like he's just interested in surviving and is disinterested otherwise, or that KelsierSC is town and Palmar is trying to set up extra mislynches.
I don't see you believing this. It's too obvious - of course Palmar's play is disinterested, if you want to push him it's because you want to warn him of doing something or die or something like that. I have a hard time believing that you really think he slipped up and was too carefree in his posts ...
Rels, I don't really understand what you're saying here. You're saying I'm mafia because my case on Palmar is too simple? Like the reasoning is too obvious?
Why can't a simple reason make someone mafia? I've found it's so easy to overthink things while simple reads are often overlooked and tend to be right.
it's not that it's only simple, it's that it's simple and wrong. Palmar being carefree early in the game doesn't mean anything. But you made a big deal out of it. It doesn't match what I expect of you
Trfel I'm very sorry if you're town. Because I'm going to say another thing that I find scummy about you, and I don't want you to feel bad if you're town. I know I could be bias confirming ...
The way you're talking about your scumreads is so sure, when I thought you were a very doubtful person. So that's something that makes me think you're scum too.
Like in these 2, you're so sure that KSC is scum, and that Palmar is scum:
On March 28 2020 02:27 Trfel wrote: I'm so sick of getting killed Day 1 for nonsense, garbage reasons, it happened the last two games.
Yet again, no one has responded to the actual thoughts I've been sharing, people are picking on meaningless semantics.
And there's a ridiculously scummy person (KelsierSC) who definitely deserves to be killed but no one cares. He "redeemed himself" with a single post that contained actual thinking:
Not a huge amount to write about him that hasn't been said. I think agreeing with HF isn't scummy it's a lot of writing with quotes and everything. The part I don't like is how he throws on some additional fire that actually says nothing about my alignment. feels like this is added on so it doesn't look like a blatant sheep
These don't line up. I get that agreeing with someone's reads and reading them as town are different things, but in this case KelsierSC didn't like LightningStrike's logic or read results and never mentioned a positive thing. Just read the posts yourself, I still don't understand AT ALL how KelsierSC decided to townread LightningStrike there. There was nothing about the conversation that "felt ok."
I think his palmar case is ok but I don't recall Palmar being good on D1 but his point about it not being a weekend has merit and palmar's lack of direction is a fair comment. I do like his comment about palmar being an unlikely D1 lynch so vote me instead, that's a pretty town mindset.
Finally he made some non commital stuff about sentinel , scum lean but holding back.
I think trefl is good enough for a D1 pass.
I was never non-comittal about [UoN]Sentinel, I never said he was a scum lean. I never said I was holding back. I said I wanted to wait for more information and see how his play evolved, which made sense given the circumstance.
In this post KelsierSC even says that my two main pushes/scumreads, comprising the majority of my play this game, are both ok. Yet he still thinks I'm mafia. He's picking on semantics, making up reasons, and has absolutely NOT redeemed his earlier play.
On March 28 2020 02:31 Rels wrote: Trfel I read everything you wrote and I've responded to you:
On March 27 2020 12:43 Rels wrote: Trfel the more I read your Palmar case the more I think you're mafia. It's just too on the nose. You're very smart, but your reasonning is so focused on a surface level it doesn't match. Like this:
On March 27 2020 09:54 Trfel wrote: Palmar doesn't care about who gets lynched. From town perspective this makes no sense. To me it feels like he's just interested in surviving and is disinterested otherwise, or that KelsierSC is town and Palmar is trying to set up extra mislynches.
I don't see you believing this. It's too obvious - of course Palmar's play is disinterested, if you want to push him it's because you want to warn him of doing something or die or something like that. I have a hard time believing that you really think he slipped up and was too carefree in his posts ...
Rels, I don't really understand what you're saying here. You're saying I'm mafia because my case on Palmar is too simple? Like the reasoning is too obvious?
Why can't a simple reason make someone mafia? I've found it's so easy to overthink things while simple reads are often overlooked and tend to be right.
it's not that it's only simple, it's that it's simple and wrong. Palmar being carefree early in the game doesn't mean anything. But you made a big deal out of it. It doesn't match what I expect of you
I wouldn't use the word carefree, I'd just say he's not invested at all. Since when do we give players a free pass for doing absolutely nothing and not even wanting to see their scumreads lynched?
Note that Palmar even changed his play after I called him out on it! He went ahead and voted for ShoCkeyy, his top scum read, after all. And is now sitting off of the main wagons. If this isn't scummy I don't know what is.
On March 28 2020 02:46 Rels wrote: Chez are you in contact with rayn? Can you paste what he thinks?
The sunshine in my mind supports me. He was in complete agreement with my thoughts on the teddy. For we both had come to the same conclusion before hearing one another.
Please, let me rule this day. Let's raise the teddy up!
On March 29 2020 02:36 GlowingBear wrote: Anyway, took my time off the game and I'm not upset anymore. And analyzing Vivax reaction to me, it feels extremely fake. I'm confident he is mafia.
I also hated his posts this night, the way he putted a lot of blame on you was pretty scummy
Trfel is also still very scummy. Not together with Palmar though
LS and GB, if you could tell me what posts you thought were townie at deadline it would be great. To me, it just looks like he showed up 30 minutes before deadline to make sure he wasn't the lynch, then fucked off.
On March 28 2020 02:50 Rels wrote: Trfel I'm very sorry if you're town. Because I'm going to say another thing that I find scummy about you, and I don't want you to feel bad if you're town. I know I could be bias confirming ...
The way you're talking about your scumreads is so sure, when I thought you were a very doubtful person. So that's something that makes me think you're scum too.
Yeah, I used to be more like that, over the past few years things have changed. That's actually why rsoultin voted to kill me the past few games and I flipped town in both of them.
Furthermore, desperate times call for desperate measures. I've been scumread SO MUCH for uncertainty and waffling that I'm trying to adjust my play to include more certainty and stronger pushes.
Like to those plays? I don't see it in your last game. Even in your big case that game, you're still using a language that match what I would expect from you:
Yeah yeah, I know, I'm one to talk, with my Eversince read and all. If that's really an issue for you let me know and I can explain it, I like to think we're all past that now though.
On Grackaroni:
On July 02 2019 09:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Grack might be town.
Raynpelikoneet's initial town lean on Grackaroni. And here is his explanation:
On July 03 2019 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: I had a townread on grack early on because i decided (after his last scumgame) to read him like i read yamato. Grackaroni is quite a low quantity poster. His post early on where he asks kind of a throwaway question on Trfel made me think there is some sort of thought process in his head. I gave him a slight townread for that.
And here is the post in question:
On July 02 2019 05:03 Grackaroni wrote: Eversince looks different but it's also 4 years old.
I don't really trust her yet, but it seemed like Rayn had a really confident read on her in the last game, so I'd be interested to hear his take.
To me this doesn't show thought process at all, raynpelikoneet's explanation really doesn't make sense here. Grackaroni stated two extremely obvious points, and it took minimal effort, and could easily be done by mafia. He didn't even draw any conclusions from this.
Later, raynpelikoneet posts a further townread of Grackaroni:
On July 03 2019 01:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: well i think grack officially goes to town pool now.
Raynpelikoneet's reasons for this:
On July 03 2019 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: When he came back and followed up his stuff he actually DID follow it up and it even made sense.
Grackaroni's posts in question:
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
can you expand on this?
He found me suspicious in the last game for not interacting with thread and disappearing.
In this game he is calling other people opportunistic for considering voting me.
However, raynpelikoneet himself even posted reasons to doubt this reasoning:
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
can you expand on this?
He found me suspicious in the last game for not interacting with thread and disappearing.
In this game he is calling other people opportunistic for considering voting me.
but last game you did that as town in his mind right?
In addition to the fact that it's easily explained. Grackaroni didn't even draw any conclusios from this, he just called it "very strange." To be honest, I don't see a ton of thought process or follow-up from Grackaroni in these posts, which is how raynpelikoneet characterized them. And I don't think most other players did either. So where did raynpelikoneet's townread come from? It feels like too much information, in this case, truly knowing that Grackaroni is town and letting that affect his read.On Conversion: Raynpelikoneet's first post implying a townread of Conversion:
On July 02 2019 09:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hi conversion, seems like we share a lot of things and feelings. Are you me?
Weren't you one of the people who got mad at me and scumread me for doing the same thing a few games ago?
Never mind I'm confusing you with someone else. Carry on
I think Eversince is town, discuss?
Why do you think I'm town?
Your posts feel so carefree and relaxed and comfortable, which is the complete opposite of your last game as mafia, which felt very rigid and forced. Plus, instead of relying on losing the wifi hotspot and the pre-game excuse, you seem to have redoubled your efforts to engage in the game and be involved. To me that makes a decent townread
Weren't you one of the people who got mad at me and scumread me for doing the same thing a few games ago?
Never mind I'm confusing you with someone else. Carry on
I think Eversince is town, discuss?
Why do you think I'm town?
Your posts feel so carefree and relaxed and comfortable, which is the complete opposite of your last game as mafia, which felt very rigid and forced. Plus, instead of relying on losing the wifi hotspot and the pre-game excuse, you seem to have redoubled your efforts to engage in the game and be involved. To me that makes a decent townread
I don’t like this post. ick
Care to say why?
too feel good-y for my condensed ball of rage and hatred
also 4 year old meta seems like a reach to have a swing towards a read in any direction that early instead of something to pocket and observe for late
This is at least somewhat understandable, though really Conversion only shared one thought. Later, raynpelikoneet posts this:
On July 02 2019 23:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah conversion easily town this game.
You can look here for the specific posts, it's a little long; but for a brief summary, Conversion's posts in question are pushing onto Eversince. Seems to be a townread simply for also scumreading Eversince. You can look at this exchange yourself, it starts on page 11, I just really feel (again) like this is a weak townread that doesn't have justification to back it up.
Raynpelikoneet didn't care about the Day 1 lynch, between his townread and his scumread + Show Spoiler [Analysis] +
Honestly I think this is probably the strongest point I have. From raynpelikoneet's perspective, the lynch in the last eight minutes was his townread (Conversion) against his strong scumread (Eversince). Posts in the thread in the last eight minutes of Day 1, making it clear that shenanigans were incoming:
On July 04 2019 04:24 Pandain wrote: I'm strongly for a Conv lynch (if Grack won't get lynched) just because I have town reads on everyone except Grack and him.
Jock is way too active. Rayn is way too active. HF could be scum but seems townie. Trfel is playing like his town games. Eywa was really townie with his exhcnage with me.
Who else wants to lynch Conv (or grack)
On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain switch to conversion with me
On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain switch to conversion with me
I switched.
Who else wants to join?
On July 04 2019 04:27 Pandain wrote: If ES and Trfel switch ES is saved Grack vote conv
So raynpelikoneet was present, and if he was at all reading, knew that shenanigans were coming and that Conversion being lynched was at least a possiblity. During these last eight minutes, here are raynpelikoneet's posts:
On July 04 2019 04:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: I get that i am probably overreacting, i just hate when someone is for example called out for lying and they say "but i just did it because the sky is red" and people go woaaah must be town, nothing wrong with that, look they gave an EXPLANATION, when i n fact the whole explanation doesn't make any fucking sense at all.
On July 03 2019 01:09 Eversince wrote: And I've played with HF a few times over the years. He's stupid good mafia player. If he's town he'll figure things out! Go look at his massive list of games to look. Like he can be wrong but mafia almost always shoot into the vets on this site (HF/Rayn/Marv etc..etc.)
@Raynpelikoneet, is the bolded the thing you are using to scumread Eversince?
Because to me, Eversince is saying here that Holyflare is good at mafia as a game, not as an alignment.
She also clarified that she meant I'm good at mafia rather than the mafia alignment.
I know she did but do you believe that's the truth? I don't.
That was everyone's interpetation of the comment except you. You're the only one reading it otherwise. Also, it's clear that he meant the game and not the alignment because she specifically says "if he's town he'll figure it out" right after. It wouldn't be very sensical if she was referring to the mafia alignment and then said hes a good town player.
that's not my point. my point is noone says "good at the game" unless the player in consideration is also good as mafia, because people who are only good as town are not good mafia players.
Even I think this point is a stretch my dude. I've seen plenty of people say that.
I could possibly believe her if she didnt try to prove her oiint with something that doesnt exist. Thats why i think she is making shit up on the fly.
He's continuing to argue and explain himself. He's only minimally pushing Eversince here, he's not saying anything about Conversion, he's not getting upset, he seems very calm and relaxed. In fact, it doesn't feel like raynpelikoneet is invested or cares about the lynch at all.
I know I made a similar point against Holyflare in my case on him, but that was a bad case. There the point was bad, because in that game Holyflare made several posts to Eversince, calling her mafia, in the same time window. The argument against Holyflare was that the posts were addressed to Eversince instead of the thread, which is weak. And even still Holyflare made a post to the threaad in response to the shenanigans:
On July 04 2019 22:42 Holyflare wrote: Rayn what exactly are your reads actually?
ES + Grackaroni mafia pretty much.
On July 05 2019 04:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Aside from ES you should kill Grack. He made the post on me being mafia, i can understand you not agreeing with me here or even thinking it's a good post. Just read it again. It doesn't make sense i am sorry i can't explain it further. Then there is the post on Conversion i challenged at eod, the reasons he says conv is mafia for happened when he read conv town, middle point of the post is fluff that doesnt make anyone anything and the the rest is "rayn and conversion are mfia because other people i have better feelings on". Me + Conversion were his top town reads!!!!!! Who did what? He never goes into anything like who actually did something and what makes them town. He just throws out a narrative and sticks shit with it, conversion up to lynch and me to throw distrust on.
Sorry if not clear, but that's what i think.
On July 05 2019 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Kill ES, kill Grack, profit.
On July 05 2019 04:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Lynch ES, lynch Grack. If either of them are town then idk, maybe Pandain? I have a hard time seeing anyone else as mafia. Maybe maybe maybe Eywa but that reasoning i have at the back of my head is fucked up and you will have to figure out yourself. Eywa is not mafia though.
And here is raynpelikoneet's reaction to End of Night 1, seeing Holyflare and Grackaroni flip town:
On July 05 2019 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: fuck you
On July 05 2019 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: vigi what`?
On July 05 2019 04:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why no shot on ES? Why in the hell?
It doesn't make sense for raynpelikoneet to be mad here. He was highly suspecting Grackaroni, he was going to lynch Grackaroni after Eversince anyway. One of his scumreads still died, objectively it wasn't a bad shot. Raynpelikoneet has no reason to be mad about this, as he can still go and lynch Eversince (his other scumread) and then find out who the last mafia (assuming Eversince is mafia) is, the vigilante shot didn't really change much of anything.
Except raynpelikoneet is mad about it anyway. This doesn't make sense from what his perspective should be.
Conclusion: I think there is a decent chance raynpelikoneet is mafia. I still want to filter everyone else before I decide, but I think these are some solid reasons to be suspicious of raynpelikoneet.
On March 28 2020 02:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Checking up on the thread although at work so won't have the time to do any deep dives until night. For now I'm considering GB's case on HF and thinking how much sense it makes.
I would prefer KSC get lynched but Trfel is a pretty close second. He hasn't shown up and I can lynch him on the same logic I don't like KSC for.
what is this logic that is similar to Trfel and KSC??????
On March 27 2020 18:19 Vivax wrote: Why is HF 'definitely town', and why is Trfel's last line wishy-washy, in your own words?
HF is town because he's spent Day 1 getting others to show up in the thread and post defenses, at which point he can write a book on all the different universes in which they're town or scum and why that's important. I like the pressure on me and Trfel and keeping Rels honest. His case on KSC and follow-up pressure is consistent and logical enough for me to believe it's a genuine case vs. looking for the worst player in the thread at any given moment.
On March 28 2020 02:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Checking up on the thread although at work so won't have the time to do any deep dives until night. For now I'm considering GB's case on HF and thinking how much sense it makes.
I would prefer KSC get lynched but Trfel is a pretty close second. He hasn't shown up and I can lynch him on the same logic I don't like KSC for.
On March 28 2020 02:27 Trfel wrote: I'm so sick of getting killed Day 1 for nonsense, garbage reasons, it happened the last two games.
Yet again, no one has responded to the actual thoughts I've been sharing, people are picking on meaningless semantics.
And there's a ridiculously scummy person (KelsierSC) who definitely deserves to be killed but no one cares. He "redeemed himself" with a single post that contained actual thinking:
On March 27 2020 20:14 KelsierSC wrote: Trfel
Not a huge amount to write about him that hasn't been said. I think agreeing with HF isn't scummy it's a lot of writing with quotes and everything. The part I don't like is how he throws on some additional fire that actually says nothing about my alignment. feels like this is added on so it doesn't look like a blatant sheep
These don't line up. I get that agreeing with someone's reads and reading them as town are different things, but in this case KelsierSC didn't like LightningStrike's logic or read results and never mentioned a positive thing. Just read the posts yourself, I still don't understand AT ALL how KelsierSC decided to townread LightningStrike there. There was nothing about the conversation that "felt ok."
I think his palmar case is ok but I don't recall Palmar being good on D1 but his point about it not being a weekend has merit and palmar's lack of direction is a fair comment. I do like his comment about palmar being an unlikely D1 lynch so vote me instead, that's a pretty town mindset.
Finally he made some non commital stuff about sentinel , scum lean but holding back.
I think trefl is good enough for a D1 pass.
I was never non-comittal about [UoN]Sentinel, I never said he was a scum lean. I never said I was holding back. I said I wanted to wait for more information and see how his play evolved, which made sense given the circumstance.
In this post KelsierSC even says that my two main pushes/scumreads, comprising the majority of my play this game, are both ok. Yet he still thinks I'm mafia. He's picking on semantics, making up reasons, and has absolutely NOT redeemed his earlier play.
On March 28 2020 02:51 Trfel wrote: Furthermore, there ABSOLUTELY IS truth to the Palmar Day 1 thing. And the fact that he has refused to acknowledge it practically makes him mafia. Maybe the meta isn't completely accurate, especially if no one here has heard of it, but at least the perception of this meta has definitely existed.
On May 12 2015 20:14 GlowingBear wrote: ##Pardon: Bill Murray
Now lynch someone that is scum.
Bye.
hahaha that's fuckin choice there's some next level shit going on here, pretty heroic
On May 12 2015 22:21 batsnacks wrote: ##vote Sandroba
I found probable mafia. Unfortunately I can't explain it without claiming. It's weird though because sandroba did nothing last game as mafia and now he's talking a lot.
so are you like 3p lyncher and you win if sandro dies or what
On May 12 2015 22:32 Palmar wrote: There is not nearly enough emotions in the thread about GB pardoning BM. Why aren't yall people who think BM is mafia absolutely frothing right now?
Palmar deffo town just based on this btw
On May 12 2015 23:09 Palmar wrote: you're right that was a bit dick-ish, sorry LS
But the point stands. Sandroba not posting as mafia in one game does not mean he cannot post in another, and because of the filter limitations it's not exactly hard to post 3 pages of stuff in one game.
Same with RoL. He's lazy and shit as either alignment. But he did jump a dumb remark from me (apparently a lot of people here are literally sheldon).
Like maybe I'm just wrong and bad about sandroba, projecting my own personality on him too much but he's now done two things this game where I just think "If I was towndroba in this situation I'd have reacted completely differently". Aside from my initial point about how him saying he'd keep an eye on marv was basically a pointless sentence that doesn't fit in (If he doesn't say that, can we then assume he's not keeping an eye on marv? Isn't the default position in all mafia games to always keep an eye on everyone?), there is more too.
1). Sandroba's reaction to me calling him scum.
On May 11 2015 23:30 sandroba wrote:
On May 11 2015 23:24 Palmar wrote: Every time I say something really dumb the thread dies.
fixed it for you.
I wouldn't mind killing jat either.
Dismissal. He doesn't defend against my point and he doesn't try to use it to pry into my own alignment. He just outright dismisses my stuff, only to come back later and say:
On May 12 2015 19:55 sandroba wrote:
On May 12 2015 19:49 Palmar wrote:
On May 12 2015 19:49 sandroba wrote:
On May 12 2015 19:47 Palmar wrote: I don't really think BM is mafia but I haven't read too much up on the game.
Any time frame we should expect the reading to start? I enjoy playing games with you, but not when I can't actually discuss important points with you and get your input.
You're mafia so why do you care?
If you believe so, I want you to tell me why that is. I can't tell if you are trolling/tunneling aimlessly or you actually believe what you are saying.
Which implies he doesn't know why I think he's mafia, when I had already explained it then.
Also
2). His reaction to the BM pardon.
Sandroba literally just made this case on BM:
On May 12 2015 19:34 sandroba wrote: I think we do need to lynch BM today. The bullshit level in his posts is a lot higher than anything I've seen from him. It is still possible that he is town and using a large quantity of drugs but that I cannot account for, and unless someone can confirm him town so he can be safely ignored we will need to deal with him at some point and I would prefer if it was today. One example of the BS he is pushing that I think points to him clearly lying on purpose and not being on drugs is this post:
On May 12 2015 16:22 Bill Murray wrote:
On May 11 2015 10:06 Trfel wrote: Hello.
I'll get to this game in a few hours at the latest. I am sorry for my absence today, I'll be better during the week than on weekends.
The purpose of this post is to ensure that I comply with the "one post every 24 hours" rule. Meanwhile, enjoy some music.
So Trfel makes excuses "ill be absent" "this post it so ensure that i comply with the one post every 24 hours rule" then he posts a video... cool. really beneficial before this all he had done was harass people
Then I nuke him for behaving like this, which didnt fit how he played last game as town
WITHIN AN HOUR of him "fulfilling his daily post on mothers day", he posts:
On May 11 2015 14:05 Trfel wrote: You're kidding me.
You nuked me for low activity on a weekend, and Mothers' Day?
I really hope you are not town here, because you being town would really kill my motivation to play this game. I mean, if you're going to give the majority of your posts for the first 24 hours away, you really shouldn't be killing me for not playing in a 24 hour period.
And not only that, but he wants to misrepresent what happened He instead attacks me NOT for me nuking him, but wants to lie and come up with some bullshit excuse to basically omgus me
1) he tries to nuke me in return that doesnt work 2) he votes me 3) he then proceeded to ask me if i have any more nukes after unvoting 4) he finds out i have no more nukes 5) he votes me again
this guy isnt enjoyable to play with, and his behavior is self serving and scummy as fuck
He is clearly nit picking and ignoring parts of trfel post. trfel states that he is going to be back in a few hours to this game but BM does not bold that part and bolds parts that change the meaning of the post. Also he flat out lies about the time elapsed between the 2 posts, which was 4 hours, not one, in accordance to the part BM chose to overlook in his first post. Conclusion is I think he is doing it on purpose and is mafia for it. ##vote: BM
And his primary scumread gets pardoned.
This is fucking sandroba people. Not some random scrub who doesn't know jack shit about the game. Again, I may be projecting my own personality but I'd be so mad at this.
Think how I would've reacted if anyone would've pardoned GB in mini mafia mini thing or someone had pardoned WoS in noir 3. I was mad enough with people just not listening to me. But someone actively shutting me down? Fuck that.
I don't think sandroba cares, I think he didn't defend my case and instead chose to dismiss it and I think my initial point was very good.
We should lynch sandroba.
I buy it. ##unvote ##vote sandroba
On May 13 2015 02:33 Blazinghand wrote:
On May 13 2015 02:12 Palmar wrote: I'm off guys for a while and I think I'm also out of posts.
I'm okay with my vote where it is. I don't think sandroba would dismiss my stuff as trolling if he was town. I'm waffling a bit because people keep telling me he's not mafia and marv seems to actually be willing to sort of go out on a limb to defend him which I'm not sure marv would do as a scumbuddy. But the points against him stand.
oh yeah in addition to sandro i'm still fine with JAT lynch but I'm too laz to write a case and I think Palmar's star power plus sandro acting weird should be on its own enough to get sandro lynched. i'll check back in a few hours, say my name in your post and i'll read it if your got questions for me
On May 13 2015 05:47 Blazinghand wrote: Eh, I get it, Vivax is being uncaring or whatever, and he actually is a really amazing player as town. I can't really give a good argument in his defense, but I still think the right move here is to follow Palmar, who has god tier D1 reads
I felt his anger was real especially from the last post I quoted and so did GB.
I don't see anything on the tone that can't easily be done by a scum about to get lynched D1.
On the content side, I even find them pretty scummy. He's complaining that noone responded to his posts, but plenty of people commented on his case D1, which was his Palmar case. It was shit, so that actually a big part of why he was up for lynch in the first plae.
even the tone is not like what I would expect from town!Trfel. You're good at meta right, don't you agree?
I expect him to be sorry to play bad when he's pushed, and to be doubtful of his reads. It's been a while since I've played with him, but he was like that last game he's played too, I've read his filter. Here in this game, he's not apologetic, more angry, and he's super sure of his reads.
On March 30 2020 11:33 Trfel wrote: Rels, care to respond to my post earlier this page to you?
GlowingBear, that's not why I am suspicious of Palmar. In short, Palmar doesn't care what happens, who gets lynched, or who is mafia, and I believe that makes him likely mafia. I'll see if I can explain it better later tonight when I am on a computer.
yeah I saw that you linked the filter I've asked, I thought I would have time in the evening to check it but I didn't
On March 28 2020 02:50 Rels wrote: Trfel I'm very sorry if you're town. Because I'm going to say another thing that I find scummy about you, and I don't want you to feel bad if you're town. I know I could be bias confirming ...
The way you're talking about your scumreads is so sure, when I thought you were a very doubtful person. So that's something that makes me think you're scum too.
Yeah, I used to be more like that, over the past few years things have changed. That's actually why rsoultin voted to kill me the past few games and I flipped town in both of them.
Furthermore, desperate times call for desperate measures. I've been scumread SO MUCH for uncertainty and waffling that I'm trying to adjust my play to include more certainty and stronger pushes.
Like to those plays? I don't see it in your last game. Even in your big case that game, you're still using a language that match what I would expect from you:
Yeah yeah, I know, I'm one to talk, with my Eversince read and all. If that's really an issue for you let me know and I can explain it, I like to think we're all past that now though.
On Grackaroni:
On July 02 2019 09:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Grack might be town.
Raynpelikoneet's initial town lean on Grackaroni. And here is his explanation:
On July 03 2019 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: I had a townread on grack early on because i decided (after his last scumgame) to read him like i read yamato. Grackaroni is quite a low quantity poster. His post early on where he asks kind of a throwaway question on Trfel made me think there is some sort of thought process in his head. I gave him a slight townread for that.
And here is the post in question:
On July 02 2019 05:03 Grackaroni wrote: Eversince looks different but it's also 4 years old.
I don't really trust her yet, but it seemed like Rayn had a really confident read on her in the last game, so I'd be interested to hear his take.
To me this doesn't show thought process at all, raynpelikoneet's explanation really doesn't make sense here. Grackaroni stated two extremely obvious points, and it took minimal effort, and could easily be done by mafia. He didn't even draw any conclusions from this.
Later, raynpelikoneet posts a further townread of Grackaroni:
On July 03 2019 01:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: well i think grack officially goes to town pool now.
Raynpelikoneet's reasons for this:
On July 03 2019 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: When he came back and followed up his stuff he actually DID follow it up and it even made sense.
Grackaroni's posts in question:
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
can you expand on this?
He found me suspicious in the last game for not interacting with thread and disappearing.
In this game he is calling other people opportunistic for considering voting me.
However, raynpelikoneet himself even posted reasons to doubt this reasoning:
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
can you expand on this?
He found me suspicious in the last game for not interacting with thread and disappearing.
In this game he is calling other people opportunistic for considering voting me.
but last game you did that as town in his mind right?
In addition to the fact that it's easily explained. Grackaroni didn't even draw any conclusios from this, he just called it "very strange." To be honest, I don't see a ton of thought process or follow-up from Grackaroni in these posts, which is how raynpelikoneet characterized them. And I don't think most other players did either. So where did raynpelikoneet's townread come from? It feels like too much information, in this case, truly knowing that Grackaroni is town and letting that affect his read.On Conversion: Raynpelikoneet's first post implying a townread of Conversion:
On July 02 2019 09:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hi conversion, seems like we share a lot of things and feelings. Are you me?
Weren't you one of the people who got mad at me and scumread me for doing the same thing a few games ago?
Never mind I'm confusing you with someone else. Carry on
I think Eversince is town, discuss?
Why do you think I'm town?
Your posts feel so carefree and relaxed and comfortable, which is the complete opposite of your last game as mafia, which felt very rigid and forced. Plus, instead of relying on losing the wifi hotspot and the pre-game excuse, you seem to have redoubled your efforts to engage in the game and be involved. To me that makes a decent townread
Weren't you one of the people who got mad at me and scumread me for doing the same thing a few games ago?
Never mind I'm confusing you with someone else. Carry on
I think Eversince is town, discuss?
Why do you think I'm town?
Your posts feel so carefree and relaxed and comfortable, which is the complete opposite of your last game as mafia, which felt very rigid and forced. Plus, instead of relying on losing the wifi hotspot and the pre-game excuse, you seem to have redoubled your efforts to engage in the game and be involved. To me that makes a decent townread
I don’t like this post. ick
Care to say why?
too feel good-y for my condensed ball of rage and hatred
also 4 year old meta seems like a reach to have a swing towards a read in any direction that early instead of something to pocket and observe for late
This is at least somewhat understandable, though really Conversion only shared one thought. Later, raynpelikoneet posts this:
On July 02 2019 23:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah conversion easily town this game.
You can look here for the specific posts, it's a little long; but for a brief summary, Conversion's posts in question are pushing onto Eversince. Seems to be a townread simply for also scumreading Eversince. You can look at this exchange yourself, it starts on page 11, I just really feel (again) like this is a weak townread that doesn't have justification to back it up.
Raynpelikoneet didn't care about the Day 1 lynch, between his townread and his scumread + Show Spoiler [Analysis] +
Honestly I think this is probably the strongest point I have. From raynpelikoneet's perspective, the lynch in the last eight minutes was his townread (Conversion) against his strong scumread (Eversince). Posts in the thread in the last eight minutes of Day 1, making it clear that shenanigans were incoming:
On July 04 2019 04:24 Pandain wrote: I'm strongly for a Conv lynch (if Grack won't get lynched) just because I have town reads on everyone except Grack and him.
Jock is way too active. Rayn is way too active. HF could be scum but seems townie. Trfel is playing like his town games. Eywa was really townie with his exhcnage with me.
Who else wants to lynch Conv (or grack)
On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain switch to conversion with me
On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain switch to conversion with me
I switched.
Who else wants to join?
On July 04 2019 04:27 Pandain wrote: If ES and Trfel switch ES is saved Grack vote conv
So raynpelikoneet was present, and if he was at all reading, knew that shenanigans were coming and that Conversion being lynched was at least a possiblity. During these last eight minutes, here are raynpelikoneet's posts:
On July 04 2019 04:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: I get that i am probably overreacting, i just hate when someone is for example called out for lying and they say "but i just did it because the sky is red" and people go woaaah must be town, nothing wrong with that, look they gave an EXPLANATION, when i n fact the whole explanation doesn't make any fucking sense at all.
On July 03 2019 01:09 Eversince wrote: And I've played with HF a few times over the years. He's stupid good mafia player. If he's town he'll figure things out! Go look at his massive list of games to look. Like he can be wrong but mafia almost always shoot into the vets on this site (HF/Rayn/Marv etc..etc.)
@Raynpelikoneet, is the bolded the thing you are using to scumread Eversince?
Because to me, Eversince is saying here that Holyflare is good at mafia as a game, not as an alignment.
She also clarified that she meant I'm good at mafia rather than the mafia alignment.
I know she did but do you believe that's the truth? I don't.
That was everyone's interpetation of the comment except you. You're the only one reading it otherwise. Also, it's clear that he meant the game and not the alignment because she specifically says "if he's town he'll figure it out" right after. It wouldn't be very sensical if she was referring to the mafia alignment and then said hes a good town player.
that's not my point. my point is noone says "good at the game" unless the player in consideration is also good as mafia, because people who are only good as town are not good mafia players.
Even I think this point is a stretch my dude. I've seen plenty of people say that.
I could possibly believe her if she didnt try to prove her oiint with something that doesnt exist. Thats why i think she is making shit up on the fly.
He's continuing to argue and explain himself. He's only minimally pushing Eversince here, he's not saying anything about Conversion, he's not getting upset, he seems very calm and relaxed. In fact, it doesn't feel like raynpelikoneet is invested or cares about the lynch at all.
I know I made a similar point against Holyflare in my case on him, but that was a bad case. There the point was bad, because in that game Holyflare made several posts to Eversince, calling her mafia, in the same time window. The argument against Holyflare was that the posts were addressed to Eversince instead of the thread, which is weak. And even still Holyflare made a post to the threaad in response to the shenanigans:
On July 04 2019 22:42 Holyflare wrote: Rayn what exactly are your reads actually?
ES + Grackaroni mafia pretty much.
On July 05 2019 04:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Aside from ES you should kill Grack. He made the post on me being mafia, i can understand you not agreeing with me here or even thinking it's a good post. Just read it again. It doesn't make sense i am sorry i can't explain it further. Then there is the post on Conversion i challenged at eod, the reasons he says conv is mafia for happened when he read conv town, middle point of the post is fluff that doesnt make anyone anything and the the rest is "rayn and conversion are mfia because other people i have better feelings on". Me + Conversion were his top town reads!!!!!! Who did what? He never goes into anything like who actually did something and what makes them town. He just throws out a narrative and sticks shit with it, conversion up to lynch and me to throw distrust on.
Sorry if not clear, but that's what i think.
On July 05 2019 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Kill ES, kill Grack, profit.
On July 05 2019 04:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Lynch ES, lynch Grack. If either of them are town then idk, maybe Pandain? I have a hard time seeing anyone else as mafia. Maybe maybe maybe Eywa but that reasoning i have at the back of my head is fucked up and you will have to figure out yourself. Eywa is not mafia though.
And here is raynpelikoneet's reaction to End of Night 1, seeing Holyflare and Grackaroni flip town:
On July 05 2019 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: fuck you
On July 05 2019 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: vigi what`?
On July 05 2019 04:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why no shot on ES? Why in the hell?
It doesn't make sense for raynpelikoneet to be mad here. He was highly suspecting Grackaroni, he was going to lynch Grackaroni after Eversince anyway. One of his scumreads still died, objectively it wasn't a bad shot. Raynpelikoneet has no reason to be mad about this, as he can still go and lynch Eversince (his other scumread) and then find out who the last mafia (assuming Eversince is mafia) is, the vigilante shot didn't really change much of anything.
Except raynpelikoneet is mad about it anyway. This doesn't make sense from what his perspective should be.
Conclusion: I think there is a decent chance raynpelikoneet is mafia. I still want to filter everyone else before I decide, but I think these are some solid reasons to be suspicious of raynpelikoneet.
I'm not sure what you are meaning by quoting the previous game here. Can you show more clearly what you are trying to point out?
As for meta... Which games of mine are you reading? I don't believe the Mafia Database has been updated for quite some time. I recommend reading games more recent than three years ago or so... From End of the World Party Mafia, where I was the Town Doctor and got lynched Day 1, rsoultin's posts (ok it was gonna be posts but I deleted one of them and I'm too lazy to find it again, it's nested in there anyway):
On March 05 2019 04:48 Trfel wrote: Voting Palmar for mayor because of all of the mayors' targets I want to see [UoN]Sentinel lynched most. Him having a townread on himself while claiming to have not read his role PM is super suspicious, moreso the more I think about it. Other than his huge list post he hasn't shown much thought at all, he's been just following the thread sentiment. His overall play makes his effort seem fabricated. A few reasons being quoting my reasoning in one area while highly scumreading me in another, and more importantly not seeming at all invested in his reads. If he put all that effort into reading and making his scumreads, he wouldn't not actually push those reads and follow the thread sentiment like a headless chicken. It feels forced, and like he's trying to use the effort to prove he's town.
##Mayor Palmar
:/ you feel off this game to me. there was a glimmer of truffledom and now it's gone again. you're not doing the truffle waffle
It's not my choice of targets? I can choose between [UoN]Sentinel and Palmar, I'm confident I much prefer [UoN]Sentinel, no need to waffle. If I was the mayor myself I'd probably go with Fecalfeast or maybe sicklucker. You're townreading Fecalfeast off of tone, right?
yeah it's mostly just him doing whatever the fuck and pointing out some things i agreed with at the time + damdy is usually pretty good at reading him and thinks he's town (though i think his read on him gets better later?)
ftr the truffle waffle is not usually dependent on other wagons unless my memory has really gone to shit
Where rsoultin scumread me for not waffling as I used to.
In fact, while I'm there, here's a link to my filter from that game if you haven't already read it.
hey I was in that game! Last TL game of the world lol. With Wiggles' radio show! We scum played an awesome game.
On March 31 2020 01:06 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Rationale for GB:
- Votes Trfel - Switches to HF when Trfel is actually going to be lynched - Switches to KSC when HF has no chance of being lynched in Trfel's spot - Oops KSC is town
Could've been a mistake but: - Back to attacking HF while nothing else is going on - Oops HF is modkilled - I guess I'll uh lynch a lurker or something
and you feel GB has a better chance of being lynched right now than Trfel?
On March 31 2020 02:30 LightningStrike wrote: Rels there was 2 votes on GB before he voted him I think that would answer that question even though I not Sentinel?
sure but votes are not everything. No way GB is lynched over Trfel right now
On April 01 2020 02:29 GlowingBear wrote: By the way, it's Trfel, guys.
yep. Even more than Trfel looking scum, the interactions between the 2 are pretty damning. They can't shup up about the other without ever hard scumreading them
On March 27 2020 11:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Ok time to be more serious
HF's case on KSC is solid and I can't find any real counters to it and Kelsier's reaction has been a resounding "pls no bully". HF is definitely town and KSC is probably scum. I say probably only because he might reappear in the thread and defend himself. But scummy enough that I can put my real vote on him.
The Trfel case was... bad. To me it looks more like grasping at straws and bad town rather than a scum play though. But:
On March 27 2020 09:42 Trfel wrote: I don't like voting early on Day 1, I'd rather wait for more information to come out. My vote will be there by the deadline, don't worry about it.
I never know what to think of Holyflare.
I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment. He hasn't posted much and the little he has posted contains a forced-feeling self-vote. I'm holding back judgement for now though, he may have some sort of explanation. I'd much rather kill KelsierSC than [UoN]Sentinel at this point, especially if KelsierSC isn't coming back. There are actual reasons to scumread KelsierSC, I greatly prefer that to [UoN]Sentinel, who is largely a question mark.
Granted I wasn't here and neither were half the players but the wishy-washiness of the last paragraph is suspicious. Is KSC + Palmar the scumteam? Neither of whom has shown up for a while?
I have 5 reads and in order of towniness they're me > HF > ShoCkeyy > Trfel > KSC. The reason I don't want to mark Trfel as red just yet is because his case on Palmar does strike me as a town attempt and because there's a good chance one or two mafia are lurking.
On March 27 2020 18:19 Vivax wrote: Why is HF 'definitely town', and why is Trfel's last line wishy-washy, in your own words?
HF is town because he's spent Day 1 getting others to show up in the thread and post defenses, at which point he can write a book on all the different universes in which they're town or scum and why that's important. I like the pressure on me and Trfel and keeping Rels honest. His case on KSC and follow-up pressure is consistent and logical enough for me to believe it's a genuine case vs. looking for the worst player in the thread at any given moment.
I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment. He hasn't posted much and the little he has posted contains a forced-feeling self-vote. I'm holding back judgement for now though, he may have some sort of explanation. I'd much rather kill KelsierSC than [UoN]Sentinel at this point, especially if KelsierSC isn't coming back. There are actual reasons to scumread KelsierSC, I greatly prefer that to [UoN]Sentinel, who is largely a question mark.
You can get rid of all the bolded bits and lose nothing. But more importantly it gives Trfel enough wiggle room if one of us (i.e. me) flips town. And if both of us are town all along and he's scum then he's already ahead. But, especially given the top two targets of suspicion at the time were KSC and me, the quoted paragraph is a great example of being in the thread without contributing anything to it.
Trfel is suspicious.
On March 28 2020 02:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Checking up on the thread although at work so won't have the time to do any deep dives until night. For now I'm considering GB's case on HF and thinking how much sense it makes.
I would prefer KSC get lynched but Trfel is a pretty close second. He hasn't shown up and I can lynch him on the same logic I don't like KSC for.
Trfel is suspicious, but my main target is KSC.
On March 31 2020 00:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Going to say
Town = HF > Rels > Shockey > Palmar > LS > Trfel > GB = Scum
##Vote: GlowingBear
Trfel is suspicious, but my main target is GB.
On March 31 2020 01:06 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Rationale for GB:
- Votes Trfel - Switches to HF when Trfel is actually going to be lynched - Switches to KSC when HF has no chance of being lynched in Trfel's spot - Oops KSC is town
Could've been a mistake but: - Back to attacking HF while nothing else is going on - Oops HF is modkilled - I guess I'll uh lynch a lurker or something
GB is scum because he's protecting his scum teammate Trfel. But I will push GB anyway, even though there is no way GB is lynched instead of Trfel given the thread sentiment.
On March 27 2020 11:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Ok time to be more serious
HF's case on KSC is solid and I can't find any real counters to it and Kelsier's reaction has been a resounding "pls no bully". HF is definitely town and KSC is probably scum. I say probably only because he might reappear in the thread and defend himself. But scummy enough that I can put my real vote on him.
The Trfel case was... bad. To me it looks more like grasping at straws and bad town rather than a scum play though. But:
On March 27 2020 09:42 Trfel wrote: I don't like voting early on Day 1, I'd rather wait for more information to come out. My vote will be there by the deadline, don't worry about it.
I never know what to think of Holyflare.
I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment. He hasn't posted much and the little he has posted contains a forced-feeling self-vote. I'm holding back judgement for now though, he may have some sort of explanation. I'd much rather kill KelsierSC than [UoN]Sentinel at this point, especially if KelsierSC isn't coming back. There are actual reasons to scumread KelsierSC, I greatly prefer that to [UoN]Sentinel, who is largely a question mark.
Granted I wasn't here and neither were half the players but the wishy-washiness of the last paragraph is suspicious. Is KSC + Palmar the scumteam? Neither of whom has shown up for a while?
I have 5 reads and in order of towniness they're me > HF > ShoCkeyy > Trfel > KSC. The reason I don't want to mark Trfel as red just yet is because his case on Palmar does strike me as a town attempt and because there's a good chance one or two mafia are lurking.
Trfel is suspicious, but my main target is KSC.
On March 28 2020 00:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On March 27 2020 18:19 Vivax wrote: Why is HF 'definitely town', and why is Trfel's last line wishy-washy, in your own words?
HF is town because he's spent Day 1 getting others to show up in the thread and post defenses, at which point he can write a book on all the different universes in which they're town or scum and why that's important. I like the pressure on me and Trfel and keeping Rels honest. His case on KSC and follow-up pressure is consistent and logical enough for me to believe it's a genuine case vs. looking for the worst player in the thread at any given moment.
I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment. He hasn't posted much and the little he has posted contains a forced-feeling self-vote. I'm holding back judgement for now though, he may have some sort of explanation. I'd much rather kill KelsierSC than [UoN]Sentinel at this point, especially if KelsierSC isn't coming back. There are actual reasons to scumread KelsierSC, I greatly prefer that to [UoN]Sentinel, who is largely a question mark.
You can get rid of all the bolded bits and lose nothing. But more importantly it gives Trfel enough wiggle room if one of us (i.e. me) flips town. And if both of us are town all along and he's scum then he's already ahead. But, especially given the top two targets of suspicion at the time were KSC and me, the quoted paragraph is a great example of being in the thread without contributing anything to it.
Trfel is suspicious.
On March 28 2020 02:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Checking up on the thread although at work so won't have the time to do any deep dives until night. For now I'm considering GB's case on HF and thinking how much sense it makes.
I would prefer KSC get lynched but Trfel is a pretty close second. He hasn't shown up and I can lynch him on the same logic I don't like KSC for.
Trfel is suspicious, but my main target is KSC.
On March 31 2020 00:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Going to say
Town = HF > Rels > Shockey > Palmar > LS > Trfel > GB = Scum
##Vote: GlowingBear
Trfel is suspicious, but my main target is GB.
On March 31 2020 01:06 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Rationale for GB:
- Votes Trfel - Switches to HF when Trfel is actually going to be lynched - Switches to KSC when HF has no chance of being lynched in Trfel's spot - Oops KSC is town
Could've been a mistake but: - Back to attacking HF while nothing else is going on - Oops HF is modkilled - I guess I'll uh lynch a lurker or something
GB is scum because he's protecting his scum teammate Trfel. But I will push GB anyway, even though there is no way GB is lynched instead of Trfel given the thread sentiment.
Actually, at the time he pushed me, I was the second wagon. 2 votes on me were guaranteed. It was his best bet, unless Trfel could push Palmar with you leading it.
That was the vote situation, but noone was ever switching to you given what they had said earlier. On the other hand, a lot of people were ready to vote Trfel if he suddenly became obvious town.
On April 01 2020 05:55 Chezinu wrote: YO YO Palmer!
I gotz some sinshine for ya.
It goes like this:
Read rels' filter starting from p5 post #810 until the end of it (#830 is important). See what you did during those two hours other than repeating what you said before?
I never really scumread Palmar, I wanted to force him to play. When he came back with his "chill guys the game is simple" posts, I found these posts pretty townie. Even before he came back though, my scumteam was Trfel / Sent.
I don't know how you don't see that, rereading my post in that period it's quite clear, starting on my vote on Palmar:
On March 30 2020 00:56 Rels wrote: It's a good day to kill Palmar actually
##Vote Palmar
Time to play or die
A few post on Trfel:
On March 30 2020 01:04 Rels wrote: Trfel is also still very scummy. Not together with Palmar though
LS and GB, if you could tell me what posts you thought were townie at deadline it would be great. To me, it just looks like he showed up 30 minutes before deadline to make sure he wasn't the lynch, then fucked off.
On March 28 2020 02:50 Rels wrote: Trfel I'm very sorry if you're town. Because I'm going to say another thing that I find scummy about you, and I don't want you to feel bad if you're town. I know I could be bias confirming ...
The way you're talking about your scumreads is so sure, when I thought you were a very doubtful person. So that's something that makes me think you're scum too.
Yeah, I used to be more like that, over the past few years things have changed. That's actually why rsoultin voted to kill me the past few games and I flipped town in both of them.
Furthermore, desperate times call for desperate measures. I've been scumread SO MUCH for uncertainty and waffling that I'm trying to adjust my play to include more certainty and stronger pushes.
Like to those plays? I don't see it in your last game. Even in your big case that game, you're still using a language that match what I would expect from you:
Yeah yeah, I know, I'm one to talk, with my Eversince read and all. If that's really an issue for you let me know and I can explain it, I like to think we're all past that now though.
On Grackaroni:
On July 02 2019 09:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Grack might be town.
Raynpelikoneet's initial town lean on Grackaroni. And here is his explanation:
On July 03 2019 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: I had a townread on grack early on because i decided (after his last scumgame) to read him like i read yamato. Grackaroni is quite a low quantity poster. His post early on where he asks kind of a throwaway question on Trfel made me think there is some sort of thought process in his head. I gave him a slight townread for that.
And here is the post in question:
On July 02 2019 05:03 Grackaroni wrote: Eversince looks different but it's also 4 years old.
I don't really trust her yet, but it seemed like Rayn had a really confident read on her in the last game, so I'd be interested to hear his take.
To me this doesn't show thought process at all, raynpelikoneet's explanation really doesn't make sense here. Grackaroni stated two extremely obvious points, and it took minimal effort, and could easily be done by mafia. He didn't even draw any conclusions from this.
Later, raynpelikoneet posts a further townread of Grackaroni:
On July 03 2019 01:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: well i think grack officially goes to town pool now.
Raynpelikoneet's reasons for this:
On July 03 2019 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: When he came back and followed up his stuff he actually DID follow it up and it even made sense.
Grackaroni's posts in question:
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
can you expand on this?
He found me suspicious in the last game for not interacting with thread and disappearing.
In this game he is calling other people opportunistic for considering voting me.
However, raynpelikoneet himself even posted reasons to doubt this reasoning:
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
can you expand on this?
He found me suspicious in the last game for not interacting with thread and disappearing.
In this game he is calling other people opportunistic for considering voting me.
but last game you did that as town in his mind right?
In addition to the fact that it's easily explained. Grackaroni didn't even draw any conclusios from this, he just called it "very strange." To be honest, I don't see a ton of thought process or follow-up from Grackaroni in these posts, which is how raynpelikoneet characterized them. And I don't think most other players did either. So where did raynpelikoneet's townread come from? It feels like too much information, in this case, truly knowing that Grackaroni is town and letting that affect his read.On Conversion: Raynpelikoneet's first post implying a townread of Conversion:
On July 02 2019 09:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hi conversion, seems like we share a lot of things and feelings. Are you me?
Weren't you one of the people who got mad at me and scumread me for doing the same thing a few games ago?
Never mind I'm confusing you with someone else. Carry on
I think Eversince is town, discuss?
Why do you think I'm town?
Your posts feel so carefree and relaxed and comfortable, which is the complete opposite of your last game as mafia, which felt very rigid and forced. Plus, instead of relying on losing the wifi hotspot and the pre-game excuse, you seem to have redoubled your efforts to engage in the game and be involved. To me that makes a decent townread
Weren't you one of the people who got mad at me and scumread me for doing the same thing a few games ago?
Never mind I'm confusing you with someone else. Carry on
I think Eversince is town, discuss?
Why do you think I'm town?
Your posts feel so carefree and relaxed and comfortable, which is the complete opposite of your last game as mafia, which felt very rigid and forced. Plus, instead of relying on losing the wifi hotspot and the pre-game excuse, you seem to have redoubled your efforts to engage in the game and be involved. To me that makes a decent townread
I don’t like this post. ick
Care to say why?
too feel good-y for my condensed ball of rage and hatred
also 4 year old meta seems like a reach to have a swing towards a read in any direction that early instead of something to pocket and observe for late
This is at least somewhat understandable, though really Conversion only shared one thought. Later, raynpelikoneet posts this:
On July 02 2019 23:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah conversion easily town this game.
You can look here for the specific posts, it's a little long; but for a brief summary, Conversion's posts in question are pushing onto Eversince. Seems to be a townread simply for also scumreading Eversince. You can look at this exchange yourself, it starts on page 11, I just really feel (again) like this is a weak townread that doesn't have justification to back it up.
Raynpelikoneet didn't care about the Day 1 lynch, between his townread and his scumread + Show Spoiler [Analysis] +
Honestly I think this is probably the strongest point I have. From raynpelikoneet's perspective, the lynch in the last eight minutes was his townread (Conversion) against his strong scumread (Eversince). Posts in the thread in the last eight minutes of Day 1, making it clear that shenanigans were incoming:
On July 04 2019 04:24 Pandain wrote: I'm strongly for a Conv lynch (if Grack won't get lynched) just because I have town reads on everyone except Grack and him.
Jock is way too active. Rayn is way too active. HF could be scum but seems townie. Trfel is playing like his town games. Eywa was really townie with his exhcnage with me.
Who else wants to lynch Conv (or grack)
On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain switch to conversion with me
On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain switch to conversion with me
I switched.
Who else wants to join?
On July 04 2019 04:27 Pandain wrote: If ES and Trfel switch ES is saved Grack vote conv
So raynpelikoneet was present, and if he was at all reading, knew that shenanigans were coming and that Conversion being lynched was at least a possiblity. During these last eight minutes, here are raynpelikoneet's posts:
On July 04 2019 04:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: I get that i am probably overreacting, i just hate when someone is for example called out for lying and they say "but i just did it because the sky is red" and people go woaaah must be town, nothing wrong with that, look they gave an EXPLANATION, when i n fact the whole explanation doesn't make any fucking sense at all.
On July 03 2019 01:09 Eversince wrote: And I've played with HF a few times over the years. He's stupid good mafia player. If he's town he'll figure things out! Go look at his massive list of games to look. Like he can be wrong but mafia almost always shoot into the vets on this site (HF/Rayn/Marv etc..etc.)
@Raynpelikoneet, is the bolded the thing you are using to scumread Eversince?
Because to me, Eversince is saying here that Holyflare is good at mafia as a game, not as an alignment.
She also clarified that she meant I'm good at mafia rather than the mafia alignment.
I know she did but do you believe that's the truth? I don't.
That was everyone's interpetation of the comment except you. You're the only one reading it otherwise. Also, it's clear that he meant the game and not the alignment because she specifically says "if he's town he'll figure it out" right after. It wouldn't be very sensical if she was referring to the mafia alignment and then said hes a good town player.
that's not my point. my point is noone says "good at the game" unless the player in consideration is also good as mafia, because people who are only good as town are not good mafia players.
Even I think this point is a stretch my dude. I've seen plenty of people say that.
I could possibly believe her if she didnt try to prove her oiint with something that doesnt exist. Thats why i think she is making shit up on the fly.
He's continuing to argue and explain himself. He's only minimally pushing Eversince here, he's not saying anything about Conversion, he's not getting upset, he seems very calm and relaxed. In fact, it doesn't feel like raynpelikoneet is invested or cares about the lynch at all.
I know I made a similar point against Holyflare in my case on him, but that was a bad case. There the point was bad, because in that game Holyflare made several posts to Eversince, calling her mafia, in the same time window. The argument against Holyflare was that the posts were addressed to Eversince instead of the thread, which is weak. And even still Holyflare made a post to the threaad in response to the shenanigans:
On July 04 2019 22:42 Holyflare wrote: Rayn what exactly are your reads actually?
ES + Grackaroni mafia pretty much.
On July 05 2019 04:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Aside from ES you should kill Grack. He made the post on me being mafia, i can understand you not agreeing with me here or even thinking it's a good post. Just read it again. It doesn't make sense i am sorry i can't explain it further. Then there is the post on Conversion i challenged at eod, the reasons he says conv is mafia for happened when he read conv town, middle point of the post is fluff that doesnt make anyone anything and the the rest is "rayn and conversion are mfia because other people i have better feelings on". Me + Conversion were his top town reads!!!!!! Who did what? He never goes into anything like who actually did something and what makes them town. He just throws out a narrative and sticks shit with it, conversion up to lynch and me to throw distrust on.
Sorry if not clear, but that's what i think.
On July 05 2019 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Kill ES, kill Grack, profit.
On July 05 2019 04:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Lynch ES, lynch Grack. If either of them are town then idk, maybe Pandain? I have a hard time seeing anyone else as mafia. Maybe maybe maybe Eywa but that reasoning i have at the back of my head is fucked up and you will have to figure out yourself. Eywa is not mafia though.
And here is raynpelikoneet's reaction to End of Night 1, seeing Holyflare and Grackaroni flip town:
On July 05 2019 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: fuck you
On July 05 2019 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: vigi what`?
On July 05 2019 04:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why no shot on ES? Why in the hell?
It doesn't make sense for raynpelikoneet to be mad here. He was highly suspecting Grackaroni, he was going to lynch Grackaroni after Eversince anyway. One of his scumreads still died, objectively it wasn't a bad shot. Raynpelikoneet has no reason to be mad about this, as he can still go and lynch Eversince (his other scumread) and then find out who the last mafia (assuming Eversince is mafia) is, the vigilante shot didn't really change much of anything.
Except raynpelikoneet is mad about it anyway. This doesn't make sense from what his perspective should be.
Conclusion: I think there is a decent chance raynpelikoneet is mafia. I still want to filter everyone else before I decide, but I think these are some solid reasons to be suspicious of raynpelikoneet.
On March 28 2020 02:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Checking up on the thread although at work so won't have the time to do any deep dives until night. For now I'm considering GB's case on HF and thinking how much sense it makes.
I would prefer KSC get lynched but Trfel is a pretty close second. He hasn't shown up and I can lynch him on the same logic I don't like KSC for.
what is this logic that is similar to Trfel and KSC??????
On March 30 2020 01:24 Rels wrote: This read progression is weird too
On March 27 2020 18:19 Vivax wrote: Why is HF 'definitely town', and why is Trfel's last line wishy-washy, in your own words?
HF is town because he's spent Day 1 getting others to show up in the thread and post defenses, at which point he can write a book on all the different universes in which they're town or scum and why that's important. I like the pressure on me and Trfel and keeping Rels honest. His case on KSC and follow-up pressure is consistent and logical enough for me to believe it's a genuine case vs. looking for the worst player in the thread at any given moment.
On March 28 2020 02:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Checking up on the thread although at work so won't have the time to do any deep dives until night. For now I'm considering GB's case on HF and thinking how much sense it makes.
I would prefer KSC get lynched but Trfel is a pretty close second. He hasn't shown up and I can lynch him on the same logic I don't like KSC for.
On March 30 2020 01:25 Rels wrote: Trfel and Sent also have a hardon to each other. Yes this is bad unflipped association but ...
On March 30 2020 01:27 Rels wrote: Palmar come and be obvious town so that I can focus on those two please please please
On April 01 2020 06:13 Chezinu wrote: Look and behold, I saw a bright beam of light. I gazed at it's frequency and felt the vibrations that hummed:
Rels wanted to lynch Trfel over Sentinel, waited for Palmar, Palmar said nothing new to what he said before. Rels promised to write a case on Trfel. He didn't follow up, and after Sentinel flip the only case he provided is reasoned on because Sentinel was mafia. ggnore
I did promise a case lol, that's actually a good town meta tell for me I would have done it 100% as scum. I would have gotten a Trfel lynch easy as scum in this game lol
I asked the Light... through the Google... I asked about me... I did not receive an answer it seems... But then I asked about Rels and I did receive an answer...
My Teddy Bear Friend, you may be able to troll a check after all!! LET'S DO THIS HOUSE OF BROWN!!! I KNOW THE BROWN IS IN YOU!!!!
RAWRR!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA NO WAY
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA THE LIGHT HAS SPOKEN, CHEZ!!
##Unvote ##Vote: Rels
Is it a April Fools day vote or is it a serious vote and if serious why?
It's a serious vote. Reason:
Do you have an actual case of why Rels is scum?
I've read what Chezinu said about Rels and I think he could be scum. I think Trfel is worse but I really want Rels to be scum after those images Chez brought.
Check my close to deadline post and you'll see I wasn't very confident Rels is town.
Unless you think Chez is Mafia?
wait I thought you were trolling with your vote. What do you mean, after those images? Is there a hidden case that I missed?
If Palmar is also not trolling, his vote on me makes me uneasy. It doesn't match the "game is simple" mindset of earlier. Would explain the Vivax NK too.
But the fact that Trfel doesn't see that and continue his Palmar push, but instead takes the opportunity of jumping on me when people are voting me ... lol. 99% scum.
Chez is conf town. I know you all think the Chez/rayn logs can be faked, but I can't imagine it. rayn is pretty proud and I'm sure he would consider that cheating.
They're very dumb to push me when I should be obvious town to rayn. But whatever
On April 02 2020 09:26 Rels wrote: lol Trfel that makes me happy to see you so opportunistic makes me feel better
Opportunistic? I wouldn't call trying to figure out the alignment of the person leading the votes opportunistic. I'd call it being responsible and caring about the game.
I did indeed miss the top of the post you mentioned, my apologies. I saw the rest and assumed it was all like that.
Still though, what about those Palmar posts did you like so much? I have yet to understand this point from anyone, in particular I'd like to hear it from you.
these posts explained why Palmar as town would be carefree, since in his point of view, the game was easy, so no need to tryhard. It made a lot of sense with his play thus far. But it doesn't make sense with his vote on me now
On April 01 2020 05:55 Chezinu wrote: YO YO Palmer!
I gotz some sinshine for ya.
It goes like this:
Read rels' filter starting from p5 post #810 until the end of it (#830 is important). See what you did during those two hours other than repeating what you said before?
On April 02 2020 23:54 LightningStrike wrote: Ok 2 close wagons now 3 hours before EoD still not exactly sure who I want to lynch yet honestly >.<
is it? I might be foolish but I don't feel that I can be lynched today ... in my mind the wagons are Trfel / Palmar, even though I'm the lynch right now lol
On March 30 2020 04:26 Palmar wrote: It's so fucking tiring that people double guess everything and never just play this game in a simple way.
Mafia people play like mafia
Town people play like town
HF got into a huge dick measuring contest with GB, ergo they're both town.
Vivax made good reads and was just all around chill and cool guy, ergo he's town.
KSC came around and actually tried, ergo town.
LS is town because I said so
Rels is probably dumb enough to be town
Trfel could be mafia because he's completely uninteresting.
Sentinel is almost certainly mafia, his filter is shit
Shockeyy is probably the other one, he sounds like mafia.
Nobody is going to try to read Chez, but I'm kinda fine with him not dying at the moment.
Just kill the people that look and sound like mafia.
Stop fucking overthinking everything.
On March 30 2020 04:28 Palmar wrote: sure I might be wrong on something
but it's really annoying that we can't just assume there's no massive fuckery or super good mafia play.
It's like that huge game where HF (who is fucking atrocious at day 1 scumhunting) lynched me on day 1 after I correctly called out like 3 mafia.
Then rayn, who is ghosting chez in this game, complained in the post game that the mafia played like mafia and that was too obvious.
And I'm like ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?
MAFIA PLAYS LIKE MAFIA?
Who'd have thought?
...
This is just stupid.
Sentinel/Shockeyy today, my vote is sent.
like, in his view, I'm town, and 2 of Trfel / Sent / shockey are scum, the 3 lowest post counts in the game. Sent flips, shockey dies, Trfel doesn't do anything new and still looks pretty bad, maybe even more than before because association.
But Chez does a case that is pretty bad: Palmar's whole game view changes, and now he votes me? Without seeing what I have to say? By making me believe his vote was troll, we lost 36 hours that we could have had to discuss.
On March 29 2020 03:03 LightningStrike wrote: That was such a bad kill regardless who is mafia because he was very lynchable. Will check his filter.
He was never gonna be lynched.
Looked very town and made good reads.
no. Not at all
Vivax was the towniest townie that ever towned in this game.
Not my fault you couldn't see it.
3 of the most active people in the thread thought Vivax was scummy at night. Yet he dies anyway. Why? This is a weird kill, in my mind that was a blue snipe attempt.
If Palmar is scum, he thought Vivax was obvious town though, so that explains the night kill.
but him voting me without explanation, interrogation, without even me realizing it's a real vote ... it doesn't make sense with his "game is simple" post
On April 02 2020 23:02 Palmar wrote: I genuinely think Chez made a really good case for killing Rels.
I am sticking with that.
Hi Palmar,
Could you please explain Chez case? TBH, I don't really get it. I just want google to be right.
I had a ray of thought. It goes like this:
I dont think rels' defense is valid. Its true he probably could have made a case on trfel and even get him lynched d2 but actually bussing sentinel who already apparently did his job n1 is the best play for anyone who is mafia. Sentinel is gonna get lynched anyways, if not d2 then d3. So why not gain town credit while he can? The incriminatimg part is that when there is only one mafia left, rels is sure trfel is the last mafia and STILL hasnt made the "sure mafia" case, other than that what sentinel has posted. And thats bull. When people think they found they are proud of it and want other people to know it, i mean as town. Rels isnt. "Why would i do that as mafia" doesnt cut it because i dont care, as i dont know what mafia "would" do other than that what i would do. Rels isnt acting like a townie should, before or after sentinel flip.
Why would I need to make a case? Until just now, I was sure that Trfel was always the lynch
and still is TBH. I don't see GB and LS voting me over Trfel. I was pretty sure Palmar was trolling, his vote didn't match his previous reads, and he didn't explain his read change. He only just now admitted that his vote was based on your case
this thing about me not bringing a case is so silly. Anyone that has played with me knows that I'm the first person to case as scum. I would never say something and then not do it, it's not how I play scum
If you don't explain yourself, this vote is not moving
This is also a weak-ass vote.
If I'm mafia my explanation is going to be bullshit, and if you don't think I'm mafia why are you voting me?
in general maybe, but in this case it's absolutely good. I should have done it sooner, if I had done that the minute you voted me, we would have had the whole day to arguee
On April 03 2020 00:56 Palmar wrote: I've never noticed but Trfel seems to type out the full name of every player at all times. He'll always talk about Holyflare, GlowingBear and [UoN]Sentinel instead of just using HF, GB, Sent etc.
That's a really strange habit.
I do not trust robots.
Another good point in my case.
lol I like this because it's easy to prove/disprove if he did it before as town
On April 03 2020 00:56 Palmar wrote: I've never noticed but Trfel seems to type out the full name of every player at all times. He'll always talk about Holyflare, GlowingBear and [UoN]Sentinel instead of just using HF, GB, Sent etc.
That's a really strange habit.
I do not trust robots.
Another good point in my case.
lol I like this because it's easy to prove/disprove if he did it before as town
On July 03 2019 06:56 Trfel wrote: Sorry I'm not going to be very active until later tonight. It's a busy day for me, and I just learned that the company I've really been looking forward to working with is only giving me a temporary contract position instead of full employment, which is very disappointing after I've been unemployed for 15 months now so I'm pretty sad and out of it.
Been filter diving from the top. I like raynpelikoneet, his play seems to match his play last game very well. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and he's still not focusing in and incessantly pushing single things. The thing that makes me townread him is that (assuming Eversince is town, which admittedly there is a chance I am wrong, but that is my current read) on Holyflare's comment he instantly switched his vote back to Eversince and has resolutely kept it there. If raynpelikoneet is mafia he knows that this is wrong, and in accordance with his "new," non-tunneling style of play I think he would be a bit more hesitant/reserved with that. Which makes me think he is town. If I explained that adequately.
On July 02 2019 16:28 Eversince wrote: I need to figure who to vote for. I'd be fine with Conv for reasons I already said. Grack would be ok but rather not, if he's town he'll start playing. Or we just lynch into lurkers. Which is also trash.
Lynching lurkers isn't always trash. I personally don't see the rush to figure out a vote right now. I guess we all play differently but I'd rather wait until near the deadline to gather as much as possible first.
On July 02 2019 16:28 Eversince wrote: I need to figure who to vote for. I'd be fine with Conv for reasons I already said. Grack would be ok but rather not, if he's town he'll start playing. Or we just lynch into lurkers. Which is also trash.
Lynching lurkers isn't always trash. I personally don't see the rush to figure out a vote right now. I guess we all play differently but I'd rather wait until near the deadline to gather as much as possible first.
Usually I do too. Which might happen again but I'll need to go back to sleep sometime tonight. I don't want to wake up tomorrow with 10-15 extra pages to try to read with 15 minutes, decide and make a vote. I'd rather talk while people are about.
Fair enough. What do you think of Pandain? Immediately reversing his only read is a little suspicious and 'I changed my perspective' is a very opaque answer as to what happened. It kinda it makes it impossible to progress a conversation about what exactly pandain is thinking. Not being open about your thought process is mafia motivated at this point, especially when something like his trfel read debacle sticks out so obviously in the thread.
His vote on you also seems like he's forcing something, trying to be first to vote for some reason. I can see mafia motivation everywhere with this guy already.
##vote pandain
On July 02 2019 16:46 Jockmcplop wrote: I know I said I didn't need to vote early, but this really jumped out at me. Pandain come back and be more town for me, I don't like having such a strong scumread so early lol.
Pandain made no posts in between these posts.
I know this has already been pointed out, but this scumread of Pandain feels somewhat fabricated. It feels like his suspicions of Pandain kinda came out of nowhere, it feels a bit forced to me. I could easily be wrong though; I'd like to see more from Jockmcplop, I think he's put himself in an interesting position with the null read on Eversince and the current vote count. @Jockmcplop, do you have an explanation for your thought process through the quoted posts?
Holyflare, this sentence is for you, just because I know you like seeing your name on things.
So far I'm suspicious of Eywa-. Eywa- feels a bit self-conscious, which seems highly opposite their town play last game. + Show Spoiler [Analysis] +
On July 03 2019 02:29 Eywa- wrote: I'm really not sure what else I'm supposed to provide or how it'll be valuable.
Why did you say "if eversince flips mafia then this game is just super easy going forward"? You must have a reason for it and afaik it's the reasoning you are voting for her (as you haven't said anythig else on why she is mafia).
So what am i supposed to think if not that?
Not my reason for voting... My reason for voting is that I think ES is mafia.
cute, why is she mafia?
The biggest reason is her role PM. Probably RNG.
Very similar to posts that Eywa- made last game as town.
On July 03 2019 05:01 Eywa- wrote: The role pm part was a joke... Oops, somehow it's being quoted in every post now.
But this didn't come up last game at all? Feels like Eywa- is self-conscious about not giving reasons in this game, which wasn't at all present last game, despite playing in a very similar way.
On July 03 2019 04:30 Eversince wrote: Actual to elaborate a little more on my Ewya point.
She will fight tooth and nail and still say nothing with Rayn. But there is like 15 pg of content and I'm the easy vote, so just kill ES, dump everything else, and try to appear like your doing something.
I don't think you're the only good lynch, but I think you're the most likely to get lynched of the narrow pool of acceptable lynches. The difference is negligible, so we can say you're the best lynch... or tied for the slot at least.
On July 03 2019 05:07 Eywa- wrote: Idk, feels like you've slipped a bunch and you're reluctant to just tell people they're wrong when reading you. You on multiple occasions tiptoed around that either indicating you don't like the way you're being read or that you felt a read on you was justified (despite it being a mafia read)
You also haven't provided much substance imo despite aggressively posting (I know, I'm the one talking...)
Overall, I'm failing to see any reason to not lynch you. Hopefully this falls into the category of sufficient justification, because I won't be going into any of the scum theater, that's discussion for another day.
Throw your vote down and stop saying how much you don't like my position, if you don't like it, put your vote where your mouth is.
On July 03 2019 05:07 Eywa- wrote: Idk, feels like you've slipped a bunch and you're reluctant to just tell people they're wrong when reading you. You on multiple occasions tiptoed around that either indicating you don't like the way you're being read or that you felt a read on you was justified (despite it being a mafia read)
You also haven't provided much substance imo despite aggressively posting (I know, I'm the one talking...)
Overall, I'm failing to see any reason to not lynch you. Hopefully this falls into the category of sufficient justification, because I won't be going into any of the scum theater, that's discussion for another day.
Throw your vote down and stop saying how much you don't like my position, if you don't like it, put your vote where your mouth is.
Yes maby I am to nice to people. Starting a game how is that bad? To me it seems like your taking easy town lynch because I CAN'T play the same every game. So just kill her.
Maby I think about this wrong. Maby I just need to be assholes to everyone. But that is not who I am so I can't do it!!
Nah, your start to this game (basically your entire first page of game (not including pre-game) filter is: 1) trying to pocket Pandain 2) random town read on first player to post 3) trying to pocket Pandain 4) AtE
There's some random comment about how you don't mind conversion (that was contradicted like 2-3 posts later - and then later escalated again).
Overall, here's a summary...
You're all over that AtE this game
You're always coming back to Pandain mafia and claiming that his read on you is wrong... Well, if he's mafia... He's not wrong is he? He's just... Well, Mafia.
You went through a phase of trying to name drop every player in the game, which lead to some reads escalating rather... Strangely.
You seem to be displaying a complete lack of understanding for why anyone is being read in certain ways rather than seeing things from their (town) perspective.
I'm voting ES now, I'll be voting ES at end of day as well.
It feels like Eywa-'s scumread and vote on Eversince is just following the momentum of everyone else, the reasons and actual strength behind the read comes out later. Eywa- even admits that Eversince is just the most likely lynch out of a narrow pool. Side note, what is Eywa-'s lynch pool anyway? They only mentioned four townreads, which leaves four remaining players, I'd say that's quite a wide lynch pool, instead of the narrow pool Eywa- claims...
But Eywa-'s scumread on Eversince increases in strength from "Eversince is one acceptable lynch out of a group of acceptable lynches" to "I'm lynching Eversince no matter what," and the only reasons cited are all from posts and events that happened before the first post in question.
It feels extremely opportunistic to me and somewhat forced. @Eywa-, can you explain your thought process through the quoted posts? I'm interested in how your read on Eversince has changed over those posts, and what caused that change.
I haven't gotten to Conversion and Grackaroni yet, and I need to reread Pandain; I will try to do so as soon as I can. Heading out for a bit.
On April 03 2020 01:00 Rels wrote: Palmar can you do me a favor? I really want you to explain in your own words what is Chez' case
I hated the "pressure" vote you put on me. It's a super dumb idea. It's one of the reasons I contemplated you just being mafia but decided I wanted to go with "dumb" instead.
Then you agreed on sent and promised to case Trfel.
There is no need to case Trfel, and there already a really, really good case on Sent, the fact that he's not doing anything at all. Even then, why didn't you immediately vote Sent to "pressure" him like you did me?
GB even asked you why you wouldn't vote him, you just said Trfel is more likely.
It feels like we had to drag the vote on Sentinel out of you, and I don't know why you promised a case on Trfel. In fact, if you couldn't write the case up, I doubt you had one. Cases come, at least to me, sorta organically. I just write them as I'm thinking.
Also I think Chez is town and he's a pretty good scumhunter, so sheeping him is smart.
On April 01 2020 06:13 Chezinu wrote: Look and behold, I saw a bright beam of light. I gazed at it's frequency and felt the vibrations that hummed:
Rels wanted to lynch Trfel over Sentinel, waited for Palmar, Palmar said nothing new to what he said before. Rels promised to write a case on Trfel. He didn't follow up, and after Sentinel flip the only case he provided is reasoned on because Sentinel was mafia. ggnore
On April 03 2020 01:11 Palmar wrote: I don't know what is the correct play.
To accept Trfel is town I have to believe he's lazy, and incredibly bad at mafia. No one spends this much effort being wrong in mafia game.
But then again, if he's mafia why does he think it's a bright idea to just hammer a post full of bullshit after another full of bullshit my way.
Palmar, I don't think Trfel has been lazy day2. But I believe he is putting effort because he knows this could possibly make me and LS townread him.
But it's just effort for the sake of town cred. See, you were his top scum. Naturally, he would be trying to convince us you're Mafia here and go full throttle against you. But the moment someone brings suspicions on Rels, voila, there's a post commenting that Rels might be Mafia but in not sure oops
to answer you Palmar, I was motivated to write a case on Trfel when I wrote that I'll do a case on Trfel, I just had to leave. Then later I didn't have the motivation anymore.
On April 03 2020 01:26 LightningStrike wrote: Tbh I'll put my vote on Trfel I think he'll flip scum more often than Rels and Palmar atm especially given Rels doing serious work right now. ##Vote: Trfel
On April 03 2020 01:26 LightningStrike wrote: Tbh I'll put my vote on Trfel I think he'll flip scum more often than Rels and Palmar atm especially given Rels doing serious work right now. ##Vote: Trfel
am I?
The fact you decided look at Trfel meta is something not many people will do even if prompted.
ok I disagree, especially given how I play scum, but I can see you thinking that easily
On April 01 2020 06:13 Chezinu wrote: Look and behold, I saw a bright beam of light. I gazed at it's frequency and felt the vibrations that hummed:
Rels wanted to lynch Trfel over Sentinel, waited for Palmar, Palmar said nothing new to what he said before. Rels promised to write a case on Trfel. He didn't follow up, and after Sentinel flip the only case he provided is reasoned on because Sentinel was mafia. ggnore
oh actually that is this Chez case
This is a surprisingly townie post.
this is townie too lol. I would expect you to continue preparing my lynch tomorrow if you're scum
On April 03 2020 01:26 LightningStrike wrote: Tbh I'll put my vote on Trfel I think he'll flip scum more often than Rels and Palmar atm especially given Rels doing serious work right no'w.
Sure, if you just literally ignore all of the posts I've been making? Why is a stupidly easy meta check the only "serious work," ignoring all of my cases and analyses?
this I agree, it wasn't a good point to me being town
On April 03 2020 02:33 Trfel wrote: @Rels, what about Palmar's list post to you qualified as "playing the game" and "towny?"
are these quotes from me?
I don't think these few posts day 2 really showed the was playing the game, it's more that every post he made before these made sense with the mentality he claimed to have in this string of posts. Taking it cool, the game is going the way I want, the lynch is the lynch I want, no need to overcomplicate thing
On April 03 2020 02:33 Trfel wrote: @Rels, what about Palmar's list post to you qualified as "playing the game" and "towny?"
are these quotes from me?
I don't think these few posts day 2 really showed the was playing the game, it's more that every post he made before these made sense with the mentality he claimed to have in this string of posts. Taking it cool, the game is going the way I want, the lynch is the lynch I want, no need to overcomplicate thing
Yes, those are quotes from you. You said you wanted to force Palmar to play the game, so I assume that when you removed your vote, that you felt that criteria had been met.
What about the times where Palmar was voting for his lesser scumread, or Day 1 where the lynch wasn't the lynch he wanted and he didn't really care? How does that fit in with this perception?
I don't know what to say, these are different from what I've liked about his posting spree D2. Yeah all of this doesn't make him town lol, but I don't think it makes him obvious scum either. He was OK with KSC being lynched D1 and Sent being lynched D2
On March 30 2020 01:04 Rels wrote: Trfel is also still very scummy. Not together with Palmar though
LS and GB, if you could tell me what posts you thought were townie at deadline it would be great. To me, it just looks like he showed up 30 minutes before deadline to make sure he wasn't the lynch, then fucked off.
On March 28 2020 02:50 Rels wrote: Trfel I'm very sorry if you're town. Because I'm going to say another thing that I find scummy about you, and I don't want you to feel bad if you're town. I know I could be bias confirming ...
The way you're talking about your scumreads is so sure, when I thought you were a very doubtful person. So that's something that makes me think you're scum too.
Yeah, I used to be more like that, over the past few years things have changed. That's actually why rsoultin voted to kill me the past few games and I flipped town in both of them.
Furthermore, desperate times call for desperate measures. I've been scumread SO MUCH for uncertainty and waffling that I'm trying to adjust my play to include more certainty and stronger pushes.
Like to those plays? I don't see it in your last game. Even in your big case that game, you're still using a language that match what I would expect from you:
Yeah yeah, I know, I'm one to talk, with my Eversince read and all. If that's really an issue for you let me know and I can explain it, I like to think we're all past that now though.
On Grackaroni:
On July 02 2019 09:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Grack might be town.
Raynpelikoneet's initial town lean on Grackaroni. And here is his explanation:
On July 03 2019 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: I had a townread on grack early on because i decided (after his last scumgame) to read him like i read yamato. Grackaroni is quite a low quantity poster. His post early on where he asks kind of a throwaway question on Trfel made me think there is some sort of thought process in his head. I gave him a slight townread for that.
And here is the post in question:
On July 02 2019 05:03 Grackaroni wrote: Eversince looks different but it's also 4 years old.
I don't really trust her yet, but it seemed like Rayn had a really confident read on her in the last game, so I'd be interested to hear his take.
To me this doesn't show thought process at all, raynpelikoneet's explanation really doesn't make sense here. Grackaroni stated two extremely obvious points, and it took minimal effort, and could easily be done by mafia. He didn't even draw any conclusions from this.
Later, raynpelikoneet posts a further townread of Grackaroni:
On July 03 2019 01:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: well i think grack officially goes to town pool now.
Raynpelikoneet's reasons for this:
On July 03 2019 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: When he came back and followed up his stuff he actually DID follow it up and it even made sense.
Grackaroni's posts in question:
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
can you expand on this?
He found me suspicious in the last game for not interacting with thread and disappearing.
In this game he is calling other people opportunistic for considering voting me.
However, raynpelikoneet himself even posted reasons to doubt this reasoning:
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
can you expand on this?
He found me suspicious in the last game for not interacting with thread and disappearing.
In this game he is calling other people opportunistic for considering voting me.
but last game you did that as town in his mind right?
In addition to the fact that it's easily explained. Grackaroni didn't even draw any conclusios from this, he just called it "very strange." To be honest, I don't see a ton of thought process or follow-up from Grackaroni in these posts, which is how raynpelikoneet characterized them. And I don't think most other players did either. So where did raynpelikoneet's townread come from? It feels like too much information, in this case, truly knowing that Grackaroni is town and letting that affect his read.On Conversion: Raynpelikoneet's first post implying a townread of Conversion:
On July 02 2019 09:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hi conversion, seems like we share a lot of things and feelings. Are you me?
Weren't you one of the people who got mad at me and scumread me for doing the same thing a few games ago?
Never mind I'm confusing you with someone else. Carry on
I think Eversince is town, discuss?
Why do you think I'm town?
Your posts feel so carefree and relaxed and comfortable, which is the complete opposite of your last game as mafia, which felt very rigid and forced. Plus, instead of relying on losing the wifi hotspot and the pre-game excuse, you seem to have redoubled your efforts to engage in the game and be involved. To me that makes a decent townread
Weren't you one of the people who got mad at me and scumread me for doing the same thing a few games ago?
Never mind I'm confusing you with someone else. Carry on
I think Eversince is town, discuss?
Why do you think I'm town?
Your posts feel so carefree and relaxed and comfortable, which is the complete opposite of your last game as mafia, which felt very rigid and forced. Plus, instead of relying on losing the wifi hotspot and the pre-game excuse, you seem to have redoubled your efforts to engage in the game and be involved. To me that makes a decent townread
I don’t like this post. ick
Care to say why?
too feel good-y for my condensed ball of rage and hatred
also 4 year old meta seems like a reach to have a swing towards a read in any direction that early instead of something to pocket and observe for late
This is at least somewhat understandable, though really Conversion only shared one thought. Later, raynpelikoneet posts this:
On July 02 2019 23:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah conversion easily town this game.
You can look here for the specific posts, it's a little long; but for a brief summary, Conversion's posts in question are pushing onto Eversince. Seems to be a townread simply for also scumreading Eversince. You can look at this exchange yourself, it starts on page 11, I just really feel (again) like this is a weak townread that doesn't have justification to back it up.
Raynpelikoneet didn't care about the Day 1 lynch, between his townread and his scumread + Show Spoiler [Analysis] +
Honestly I think this is probably the strongest point I have. From raynpelikoneet's perspective, the lynch in the last eight minutes was his townread (Conversion) against his strong scumread (Eversince). Posts in the thread in the last eight minutes of Day 1, making it clear that shenanigans were incoming:
On July 04 2019 04:24 Pandain wrote: I'm strongly for a Conv lynch (if Grack won't get lynched) just because I have town reads on everyone except Grack and him.
Jock is way too active. Rayn is way too active. HF could be scum but seems townie. Trfel is playing like his town games. Eywa was really townie with his exhcnage with me.
Who else wants to lynch Conv (or grack)
On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain switch to conversion with me
On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain switch to conversion with me
I switched.
Who else wants to join?
On July 04 2019 04:27 Pandain wrote: If ES and Trfel switch ES is saved Grack vote conv
So raynpelikoneet was present, and if he was at all reading, knew that shenanigans were coming and that Conversion being lynched was at least a possiblity. During these last eight minutes, here are raynpelikoneet's posts:
On July 04 2019 04:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: I get that i am probably overreacting, i just hate when someone is for example called out for lying and they say "but i just did it because the sky is red" and people go woaaah must be town, nothing wrong with that, look they gave an EXPLANATION, when i n fact the whole explanation doesn't make any fucking sense at all.
On July 03 2019 01:09 Eversince wrote: And I've played with HF a few times over the years. He's stupid good mafia player. If he's town he'll figure things out! Go look at his massive list of games to look. Like he can be wrong but mafia almost always shoot into the vets on this site (HF/Rayn/Marv etc..etc.)
@Raynpelikoneet, is the bolded the thing you are using to scumread Eversince?
Because to me, Eversince is saying here that Holyflare is good at mafia as a game, not as an alignment.
She also clarified that she meant I'm good at mafia rather than the mafia alignment.
I know she did but do you believe that's the truth? I don't.
That was everyone's interpetation of the comment except you. You're the only one reading it otherwise. Also, it's clear that he meant the game and not the alignment because she specifically says "if he's town he'll figure it out" right after. It wouldn't be very sensical if she was referring to the mafia alignment and then said hes a good town player.
that's not my point. my point is noone says "good at the game" unless the player in consideration is also good as mafia, because people who are only good as town are not good mafia players.
Even I think this point is a stretch my dude. I've seen plenty of people say that.
I could possibly believe her if she didnt try to prove her oiint with something that doesnt exist. Thats why i think she is making shit up on the fly.
He's continuing to argue and explain himself. He's only minimally pushing Eversince here, he's not saying anything about Conversion, he's not getting upset, he seems very calm and relaxed. In fact, it doesn't feel like raynpelikoneet is invested or cares about the lynch at all.
I know I made a similar point against Holyflare in my case on him, but that was a bad case. There the point was bad, because in that game Holyflare made several posts to Eversince, calling her mafia, in the same time window. The argument against Holyflare was that the posts were addressed to Eversince instead of the thread, which is weak. And even still Holyflare made a post to the threaad in response to the shenanigans:
On July 04 2019 22:42 Holyflare wrote: Rayn what exactly are your reads actually?
ES + Grackaroni mafia pretty much.
On July 05 2019 04:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Aside from ES you should kill Grack. He made the post on me being mafia, i can understand you not agreeing with me here or even thinking it's a good post. Just read it again. It doesn't make sense i am sorry i can't explain it further. Then there is the post on Conversion i challenged at eod, the reasons he says conv is mafia for happened when he read conv town, middle point of the post is fluff that doesnt make anyone anything and the the rest is "rayn and conversion are mfia because other people i have better feelings on". Me + Conversion were his top town reads!!!!!! Who did what? He never goes into anything like who actually did something and what makes them town. He just throws out a narrative and sticks shit with it, conversion up to lynch and me to throw distrust on.
Sorry if not clear, but that's what i think.
On July 05 2019 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Kill ES, kill Grack, profit.
On July 05 2019 04:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Lynch ES, lynch Grack. If either of them are town then idk, maybe Pandain? I have a hard time seeing anyone else as mafia. Maybe maybe maybe Eywa but that reasoning i have at the back of my head is fucked up and you will have to figure out yourself. Eywa is not mafia though.
And here is raynpelikoneet's reaction to End of Night 1, seeing Holyflare and Grackaroni flip town:
On July 05 2019 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: fuck you
On July 05 2019 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: vigi what`?
On July 05 2019 04:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why no shot on ES? Why in the hell?
It doesn't make sense for raynpelikoneet to be mad here. He was highly suspecting Grackaroni, he was going to lynch Grackaroni after Eversince anyway. One of his scumreads still died, objectively it wasn't a bad shot. Raynpelikoneet has no reason to be mad about this, as he can still go and lynch Eversince (his other scumread) and then find out who the last mafia (assuming Eversince is mafia) is, the vigilante shot didn't really change much of anything.
Except raynpelikoneet is mad about it anyway. This doesn't make sense from what his perspective should be.
Conclusion: I think there is a decent chance raynpelikoneet is mafia. I still want to filter everyone else before I decide, but I think these are some solid reasons to be suspicious of raynpelikoneet.
On March 28 2020 02:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Checking up on the thread although at work so won't have the time to do any deep dives until night. For now I'm considering GB's case on HF and thinking how much sense it makes.
I would prefer KSC get lynched but Trfel is a pretty close second. He hasn't shown up and I can lynch him on the same logic I don't like KSC for.
what is this logic that is similar to Trfel and KSC??????
On March 30 2020 01:24 Rels wrote: This read progression is weird too
On March 27 2020 18:19 Vivax wrote: Why is HF 'definitely town', and why is Trfel's last line wishy-washy, in your own words?
HF is town because he's spent Day 1 getting others to show up in the thread and post defenses, at which point he can write a book on all the different universes in which they're town or scum and why that's important. I like the pressure on me and Trfel and keeping Rels honest. His case on KSC and follow-up pressure is consistent and logical enough for me to believe it's a genuine case vs. looking for the worst player in the thread at any given moment.
On March 28 2020 02:04 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Checking up on the thread although at work so won't have the time to do any deep dives until night. For now I'm considering GB's case on HF and thinking how much sense it makes.
I would prefer KSC get lynched but Trfel is a pretty close second. He hasn't shown up and I can lynch him on the same logic I don't like KSC for.
On March 30 2020 01:25 Rels wrote: Trfel and Sent also have a hardon to each other. Yes this is bad unflipped association but ...
On April 03 2020 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: "I think main thign to watch now is what Trfel thinks of us. Day 1 we wanted to save both him and Kelsier, and lynch GB or Sentinel. D2 we wanted to lynch GB or Sentinel (where we voted doesn't really matter here). For Trfel we should be 100% town because we are doing very townie things assuming he is town and GB is ??? . So basically, if he calls us mafia then i think he is mafia."
"yeah he said "they feel kinda town but need to re-evaluate" ä
"yeah, i still his response is mild somehow"
Sadly i never got to investogate this further lol... well or pretty much anything. gg and the google reads were a total blast, i laughed so hard with chezinu yesterday hahaha^^
possible to have a transcript of your chat? If not no problem
On April 03 2020 03:44 LightningStrike wrote: I just remembered now: Rels we are 7/9 as the same alignment :o
really? That's pretty lucky :p
Yes really it's in the database.
I can think of 3 though I think? - The millionaire game where you were scum and got DF and I to hard townread you and fight each other to the death - The game where I was scum with HF and I pushed you hard at some point - The end of the world where I was scum mason and I buddied you in the QT
3:46 PM raynpelikoneet!: [...] Trfel - I dont think Trfel would call out Palmar like he did in case he was mafia because it doesn't make any sense, unless Kelsier is mafia, but then again, if he is mafia with Kelsier he would have easier and better targets than Palmar. Only thing that bugs me is that he hasn't done the town!Trfel thing that he does in most of his games and pretty early.
I wouldn't have lynched Trfel if i was in the game properly with the information i had so gj guys.
now I'm curious about that thing, but I suppose you will want to keep it for potential later games :p
On April 03 2020 05:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: It is when he says something really smart and then immediately after second guesses himself and it feels like he genuinely feels bad about what he first said lol. I have already told this to him before it's just impossible to fake.
Yeah I know what you mean! The second guessings and doubts and apologies
On April 03 2020 05:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: holy shit rels. had you just made the case on trfel and not posted some shit sentinel said i would have known trfel is mafia. i didnt even remember i said that just before i decided you had to be mafia when re-reading.... so it's your fault i was bad.
no u! It was in my filter I just didn't take the time to rewrite it as a proper case. And the game didn't need it TBH + Show Spoiler +
On March 28 2020 02:50 Rels wrote: Trfel I'm very sorry if you're town. Because I'm going to say another thing that I find scummy about you, and I don't want you to feel bad if you're town. I know I could be bias confirming ...
The way you're talking about your scumreads is so sure, when I thought you were a very doubtful person. So that's something that makes me think you're scum too.
On March 28 2020 02:51 Rels wrote: Like in these 2, you're so sure that KSC is scum, and that Palmar is scum:
On March 28 2020 02:27 Trfel wrote: I'm so sick of getting killed Day 1 for nonsense, garbage reasons, it happened the last two games.
Yet again, no one has responded to the actual thoughts I've been sharing, people are picking on meaningless semantics.
And there's a ridiculously scummy person (KelsierSC) who definitely deserves to be killed but no one cares. He "redeemed himself" with a single post that contained actual thinking:
On March 27 2020 20:14 KelsierSC wrote: Trfel
Not a huge amount to write about him that hasn't been said. I think agreeing with HF isn't scummy it's a lot of writing with quotes and everything. The part I don't like is how he throws on some additional fire that actually says nothing about my alignment. feels like this is added on so it doesn't look like a blatant sheep
These don't line up. I get that agreeing with someone's reads and reading them as town are different things, but in this case KelsierSC didn't like LightningStrike's logic or read results and never mentioned a positive thing. Just read the posts yourself, I still don't understand AT ALL how KelsierSC decided to townread LightningStrike there. There was nothing about the conversation that "felt ok."
I think his palmar case is ok but I don't recall Palmar being good on D1 but his point about it not being a weekend has merit and palmar's lack of direction is a fair comment. I do like his comment about palmar being an unlikely D1 lynch so vote me instead, that's a pretty town mindset.
Finally he made some non commital stuff about sentinel , scum lean but holding back.
I think trefl is good enough for a D1 pass.
I was never non-comittal about [UoN]Sentinel, I never said he was a scum lean. I never said I was holding back. I said I wanted to wait for more information and see how his play evolved, which made sense given the circumstance.
In this post KelsierSC even says that my two main pushes/scumreads, comprising the majority of my play this game, are both ok. Yet he still thinks I'm mafia. He's picking on semantics, making up reasons, and has absolutely NOT redeemed his earlier play.
On March 28 2020 02:31 Rels wrote: Trfel I read everything you wrote and I've responded to you:
On March 27 2020 12:43 Rels wrote: Trfel the more I read your Palmar case the more I think you're mafia. It's just too on the nose. You're very smart, but your reasonning is so focused on a surface level it doesn't match. Like this:
On March 27 2020 09:54 Trfel wrote: Palmar doesn't care about who gets lynched. From town perspective this makes no sense. To me it feels like he's just interested in surviving and is disinterested otherwise, or that KelsierSC is town and Palmar is trying to set up extra mislynches.
I don't see you believing this. It's too obvious - of course Palmar's play is disinterested, if you want to push him it's because you want to warn him of doing something or die or something like that. I have a hard time believing that you really think he slipped up and was too carefree in his posts ...
Rels, I don't really understand what you're saying here. You're saying I'm mafia because my case on Palmar is too simple? Like the reasoning is too obvious?
Why can't a simple reason make someone mafia? I've found it's so easy to overthink things while simple reads are often overlooked and tend to be right.
it's not that it's only simple, it's that it's simple and wrong. Palmar being carefree early in the game doesn't mean anything. But you made a big deal out of it. It doesn't match what I expect of you
I wouldn't use the word carefree, I'd just say he's not invested at all. Since when do we give players a free pass for doing absolutely nothing and not even wanting to see their scumreads lynched?
Note that Palmar even changed his play after I called him out on it! He went ahead and voted for ShoCkeyy, his top scum read, after all. And is now sitting off of the main wagons. If this isn't scummy I don't know what is.
so that's it? You solved the game D1 already?
On March 30 2020 02:19 Rels wrote: even the tone is not like what I would expect from town!Trfel. You're good at meta right, don't you agree?
I expect him to be sorry to play bad when he's pushed, and to be doubtful of his reads. It's been a while since I've played with him, but he was like that last game he's played too, I've read his filter. Here in this game, he's not apologetic, more angry, and he's super sure of his reads.
On April 03 2020 06:01 ShoCkeyy wrote: I seriously thought Palmar was mafia at first for just insta claiming I was mafia. I wanted to shoot him even more... Good thing I wasn't vig :D
Having been under the same "you're scum but I won't tell you why til later" d3, I know how you feel :p
On April 03 2020 09:09 GlowingBear wrote: Anyway, I thinking about hosting a game heavy flavoured, like I did with Holy Guardians (but never continued it)
EPT
take care mate![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yxX2qKG.gif)
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