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On August 08 2019 10:43 Fecalfeast wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2019 05:36 NoSmurfHere wrote:Thanks to grack for hosting! Really enjoyed the game  Also sorry if I was a bit too harsh on anyone, within the game I of course have strong opinions. Please don’t take anything I say personally and do let me know if I’m being too much of an asshole. Some random thoughts: + Show Spoiler +
I have pretty much no regrets this game, the only thing I would change is that I should have leaned much much harder on MZ and Pandain because I gave both players huge passes when they didn’t deserve them, especially day 1.
If I had the time or the energy I would have probably tried to derail the Chezinu lynch. I think it would’ve ultimately made no difference though because first 3 cycles was TvT every single time.
At LYLO if you are a townie (ahem Eversince) please do not hold your vote till the last moment. idgaf if that’s how you play normally because you are literally signaling that you are either scum or are going to waste your vote and consolidate on whatever wagon that appears which means you are essentially useless for the cycle.
This is especially the case because holding your vote for so long is not inclusive, it is not cooperative, and it is an incredibly selfish play; it does not consider the perspectives of the other townies who are trying to figure out your alignment. Your vote is more important than your voice. As an example, if I were solo playing this game, in LYLO I would not be around for the 6-7 hours before deadline because it’s at 5 am. I am only here now because my flight arrived 30 minutes ago and I’m waiting on a bus.
In that situation, if a player says they’re going to hold their vote till the end there’s absolutely nothing I can do except park my vote earlier in the day and hope I am right. I am forced to lead on my best scum read (aka I’m now forced to play selfishly too) rather than cooperatively work out what’s best for the entire faction.
I believe this applies not just in LYLO but on other days too. Had we started cooperating earlier this game would have been a lot easier. For instance, Koshi’s points on Eywa were all really good. Had we been able to start on that path one cycle earlier it wouldn’t have mattered if ES was low on time, not really understanding what was going on (mixing up day 2 and day 4? Lol) etc.
Not being cooperative is also 100% the reason town lynched both rayn and FF, IMO. I think it’s also quite telling that Jock and I took a lot of flak for these lynches even though in the end I don’t believe we really swung them much at all. Our vote on rayn wasn’t even consequential, for instance.
-wherebugsgo In what way was I not being cooperative could you maybe explain what you think I did to deserve getting lynched
You scumread us by nitpicking me for posts upon posts.
when the nit picked thing was explained (multiple times) you just dug in your heels further. So of course at that point I’m not going to engage with you further and I’m just going to convince others to kill you because you’re not doing us any favors by calling us scum for really stupid reasons.
And FTR, basically everyone who called us scum did so on the basis of nitpicking us and we were the only ones who defended in a way so as to not get lynched. There was a chance we could get lynched d3/d4 because of town falling into the trap of alive = scum but even without the QT paraphrasing I’m very confident it would not have happened.
Compare this to you & rayn, and even to a good degree Tube.
Tube was universally townread yet had no lynch pull whatsoever because he was just tunneling and couldn’t leave it alone.
Rayn was basically the same but at the same time shat up the thread with 6 pages of overzealous confidence on the basis of me living in Canada (wrong) before we had made a single post.
You can take some cred for having good reads (I will disagree on this actually but if the scumteam was scared of you that’s at least something) but you didn’t have any cred either because even if you believed both rayn and us were town on D1 you did nothing to get your lynch of choice (MZ) to be a wagon. I personally think “correct” reads with essentially no legwork behind them don’t count for shit, and most of the legwork you did was to push us.
In fact you did certain things that make no sense if you believed MZ was scum d1 and should be lynched or Eywa was scum d2; you said you’d lynch us over rayn but did nothing to stop the mislynch, you called out Coag for being scummy but he voted with you, and you fought with us even though I narrowed down my personal lynch options to rayn and MZ very early on.
I think #565 onward from your filter is a good reread.
1. You want to vote Eywa but are easily pushed off that by slam
2. Most of your content is attacking/nitpicking us. So from an outside perspective doesn’t seem like you really care about lynching Eywa at all
3. You indicate you’ll blindly sheep Tube so now your own opinions don’t even matter. Also hard to tell if you were reading at all because it should have been really obvious tube wanted to kill us
4. You then throw out four names with the same level of apathy: Eywa Pandain us slam. 50/50 is great, just no real indication you care
5. At the same time you throw paranoia on tube for literally no reason (this catches my eye as scummy finally, I’d townread you all the way up to here even though Jock did not townread you, and then you nitpick me)
6. You get into a shit fight with ES
7. Then you say you essentially scumread everyone
8. Then you complain about not having a real wagon
At the time it sounded to me like you were contributing a lot of these problems and doing absolutely nothing to solve any of them while complaining all the time. I’m sure other people saw it similarly which is why you died and not us.
-wherebugsgo
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On August 06 2019 11:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
btw as an aside I think my opinion on the self vote rule has changed.
I used to think that there were really niche situations where killing yourself would end discussion and allow the game to progress in a way that is beneficial to your faction.
Given that there are people that will now do this at LYLO as town and it becomes a really stupid scumhunting "heuristic" (aka martyrs cannot be scum fallacy) think it should go back to being against the rules.
I think the vast majority of self-voting cases are playing against your own wincon and we should not allow that if playing against your own wincon is against the rules. It's not fair to the other players if you've got one person who'd rather refuse to play and end the game early rather by playing against their own wincondition than actually doing what's expected of them.
Duly noted, and as a massive hypocrite I agree. It won’t be allowed in my game.
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I suggest you dont go there further FF.
ES i dont even know what you did but if you want to improve or know what you did wrong or whatever, bugs is definitely not the person to listen to. I read two filters in this game and one of them was yours and you were easily town.
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On August 08 2019 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:I suggest you dont go there FF. ES i dont even know what you did but if you want to improve or know what you did wrong or whatever, bugs is definitely not the person to listen to. I read two filters in this game and one of them was yours and you were easily town.
You can fuck right off LOL
You died day 1 in this game and wasted the best role town had.
And last game we played you did essentially the same thing.
Consistent negative impact over 100? games is pretty much unique to you.
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I could say some things but i decide not to. You can keep on living in your world, that's okay.
I just am not really a fan of new upcoming people being bugs 2.0 based on what i have seen lately.
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On August 08 2019 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:I could say some things but i decide not to. You can keep on living in your world, that's okay. I just am not really a fan of new upcoming people being bugs 2.0 based on what i have seen lately.
Keep getting lynched day 1
Literally your only job as a townie is to not get lynched. You can’t even manage that, you’re worse than a new player.
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see how much i care. i think i have -- if not the best -- almost best tracking record this year on tl mafia. i dont care if i get lynched by people who cant play mafia and cant tell town from mafia. sure i get it wrong at some points.
I tried to create a town circle where, unsurprisingly everyone i appealed to were town. too bad they didnt listen to me. tbh i wouldnt even care too much but youre apparently trying to poison jock (i guess poisoned already based on his posts on D1), ES, and FF and whoever else. It's so bad dude, like even your post game posts are full of shit lol...
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On August 08 2019 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:I could say some things but i decide not to. You can keep on living in your world, that's okay. I just am not really a fan of new upcoming people being bugs 2.0 based on what i have seen lately.
If this is aimed at me feel free to have words.
So far you seem determined to start mafia war on me as often as possible and then act confused when you get lynched in part because of that.
I don't know what space you can possibly be in where you think you are the victim after accusing me of being mafia before i even made a post.
Its not the first time either, maybe the third time already that you scumread me and try to get me lynched on day 1 for zero good reasons and then go off on one about how terrible everyone else is when you die.
The fact is you put me on the defensive when you had no reason to do so, and that is partly what resulted in
a) you getting lynched
b) the first 3 days of this game being a bit shit for me.
The annoying thing is you are always totally wrong about me in every single game and yet still you manage to make playing an actual nightmare as long as we're both in the thread, and personally I get irritated by this and it makes me glad when you're lynched, town or not, because I can then play mafia.
The same way you always want to lynch bugs whether he's town or not, that's how I feel about you rayn, especially when you're town, because I know you'll scumread me based on something stupid and then not shut up about it and make the game really shitty for me to play.
Nothing personal dude its just your playstyle and your unnatural focus on me all the time, it does my head in.
I'm not discounting that I just need to learn your playstyle better (I know this is the case with Koshi and FF but I think I'm getting a grip on those guys a little more now after this game), but honestly as long as you keep scumreading me completely wrongly for zero good reasons on day 1 we're gonna keep having issues.
So you can keep your post game rage and maybe direct some of that towards yourself before the next game 
Oh and bugs isn't 'poisoning' me. We disagree about plenty (I think I'm much more partial to the slam/chezinu style, for example). I still haven't really developed my own style yet, you'll see.
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On August 08 2019 18:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
So far you seem determined to start mafia war on me as often as possible and then act confused when you get lynched in part because of that.
I stopped reading here because this already tells everything i need to know about your mindset.
You're wrong.
I am not acting confused. Whatever i said before your hydra posted was not actually a real scumread, anyone who knows how to play mafia should realise it. Then you came in and said i am AFRAID of your hydra because i am mafia, when you have zero posts, and after that you treat my scumhunting as bad TOWNIE. I am sorry bro but you fucked up and once again you should have been lynched for that and that only because that was terrible and something a townie should never do. But you do you, or bugs, idc
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On August 08 2019 18:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
The annoying thing is you are always totally wrong about me in every single game
see now you're becoming bugs who makes up a narrative and chooses to just believe in it.
this is just simply incorrect.
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My foot in this discussion is mainly Rayn can just be stupid emotional. It's not something I'd put him as mafia for but I get how it could make it un-pleasant to play. I think better move would be just point out why it's wrong and shrug shoulders at it.. I basically tried to do that this game to. I died anyway but that was half because I had no option to lynch someone I thought was mafia/ half because I thought I have no net by next cycle.. Didn't really care at that point, didn't want to force town to drag out '?' on me for more cycles when I didn't think I'd even be able to play.
@Rayn other comment. Yeah, I did try to post generic town this game. I tried to keep everything short because I'm trash at explaining things regardless, didn't have time to elaborate, so I just give my honest opinion short despite how bad it made me look at times and hope for best  !
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On August 08 2019 18:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
I still haven't really developed my own style yet, you'll see.
here's a pro tip for you. drop that shit and just play the game.
noone cares about your "style you're going to develop", why dont you just play the game to your best abilities?
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btw Koshi I actually enjoyed playing with you this game. Idk what you did different but it was fun
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On August 08 2019 18:58 wherebugsgo wrote:btw Koshi I actually enjoyed playing with you this game. Idk what you did different but it was fun
I know, he lynched me and after that continued playing like shit.
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On August 08 2019 19:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2019 18:58 wherebugsgo wrote:btw Koshi I actually enjoyed playing with you this game. Idk what you did different but it was fun I know, he lynched me and after that continued playing like shit.
If only he did that every game!
Really, I’m not sure why anyone tolerates you. You’re a cancer on this forum.
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so hey bugs how about we compare our track records this year since you shat on me on that?
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On August 08 2019 19:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
so hey bugs how about we compare our track records this year since you shat on me on that?
I have played 3 games this year?
Why does this year even matter?
And I think in all 3 of those games we were the same alignment LOL
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On August 08 2019 19:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
Really, I’m not sure why anyone tolerates you. You’re a cancer on this forum.
I am sorry if you feel that way but i think it tells something about you too since i am only a dick towards other people who are dicks.
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Aww, let's not trash on each other post game. I actually usual enjoy playing with Rayn . (You were ok to me despite getting me lynched this game too Bugs heh)
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On August 08 2019 19:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2019 19:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
Really, I’m not sure why anyone tolerates you. You’re a cancer on this forum. I am sorry if you feel that way but i think it tells something about you too since i am only a dick towards other people who are dicks.
Says the guy who called out HF for scumreading MZ in the obs right?
You know people can read, unlike you, right?
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EPT
