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On August 06 2019 11:19 Tubesock wrote:
Why should ES think Pandain is 100% scum? I don’t get it.
1. Pandain threw his vote on Koshi in LYLO and left it there all day.
2. MZ pushed branch & Koshi and parked his vote on branch.
3. voter list on MZ and ES was identical, just different order. minimum 2 townies in both lists.
4. after MZ flipped scum, both Koshi and branch basically shot to near confirmed town (branch more so, it would have been koshi if Pandain was lynched instead) especially because both players were pushed heavily even prior to LYLO.
This makes the following three scenarios the most likely:
1. scum didn't bus. ES & Pandain scum. by definition not possible from ES perspective.
2. Pandain lock scum and wasted vote seeking a mislynch. One other scum bussed. To ES, this should be the most likely scenario.
3. Two scum bussed and somehow just left ES alive. The only scumteam where this makes sense from ES perspective is us & Koshi because Eywa was the first voter on MZ AND the hammer on ES. It would have indicated that scum us did not feel comfortable predicting where the lynch would go and decided to bus MZ for a guaranteed win the next cycle. ES should have seen that this is borderline impossible.
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another reason koshi was essentially lock town was because MZ and at least one other scum pushed him as a viable lynch candidate d2 in opposition to Chezinu, because the 3 voters on Koshi were MZ Pandain ES
multiple scum don't try to create wagons on their own teammates when the votes are so close. scum can't predict lynches like that.
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On August 06 2019 11:32 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2019 11:19 Tubesock wrote:
Why should ES think Pandain is 100% scum? I don’t get it. 1. Pandain threw his vote on Koshi in LYLO and left it there all day. 2. MZ pushed branch & Koshi and parked his vote on branch. 3. voter list on MZ and ES was identical, just different order. minimum 2 townies in both lists. 4. after MZ flipped scum, both Koshi and branch basically shot to near confirmed town (branch more so, it would have been koshi if Pandain was lynched instead) especially because both players were pushed heavily even prior to LYLO. This makes the following three scenarios the most likely: 1. scum didn't bus. ES & Pandain scum. by definition not possible from ES perspective. 2. Pandain lock scum and wasted vote seeking a mislynch. One other scum bussed. To ES, this should be the most likely scenario. 3. Two scum bussed and somehow just left ES alive. The only scumteam where this makes sense from ES perspective is us & Koshi because Eywa was the first voter on MZ AND the hammer on ES. It would have indicated that scum us did not feel comfortable predicting where the lynch would go and decided to bus MZ for a guaranteed win the next cycle. ES should have seen that this is borderline impossible.
This actually makes so much sense now. Sorry if you said this and I was to space-brained to realize it..
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I still wonder why scum didn't just lynch me earlier cycle lol.. Literal easy to just lynch in-active ES because I had no option to do anything ever there. Would of been so easy.
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On August 06 2019 11:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
another reason koshi was essentially lock town was because MZ and at least one other scum pushed him as a viable lynch candidate d2 in opposition to Chezinu, because the 3 voters on Koshi were MZ Pandain ES
multiple scum don't try to create wagons on their own teammates when the votes are so close. scum can't predict lynches like that.
I think we disagree here. Scum absolutely bus m!Koshi when he plays like trash. It wasn't until MZ flip you can even make this statement.. If I'm scum and m!Koshi just took terrible I always bus him. I want town credit because he's going to die (personal opinion). It's more the whole Koshi survives by being so bad he can't possibly be scum. But obviously by votes that makes me scum. Kk. Reasons I got so fed up..
80% of town just played dumpster this game (myself included), and it's wrong to say I should see obvious mafia when literally more than 3/4 of the town this game just toss themselves into drowning in the ocean..
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On August 06 2019 12:05 Eversince wrote:
I still wonder why scum didn't just lynch me earlier cycle lol.. Literal easy to just lynch in-active ES because I had no option to do anything ever there. Would of been so easy.
Because I thought you were obvious town and that Branch had played really scummy. D2 and D3 I had tried to play scum as if I was town and it had worked out well. D4 my associations I had built were kinda falling apart so it was hard for me to continue to sell Branch despite the fact that I thought he was objectively a better lynch (from a townk perspective) in a vacuum. My push on him was because I kinda forgot I was scum. I should have just sheeped along and killed you. We might have won then although I suppose in hindsight my sellout defense of you made you look pretty bad so it worked out for me lol.
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On August 06 2019 12:41 Eversince wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2019 11:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
another reason koshi was essentially lock town was because MZ and at least one other scum pushed him as a viable lynch candidate d2 in opposition to Chezinu, because the 3 voters on Koshi were MZ Pandain ES
multiple scum don't try to create wagons on their own teammates when the votes are so close. scum can't predict lynches like that. I think we disagree here. Scum absolutely bus m!Koshi when he plays like trash. It wasn't until MZ flip you can even make this statement.. If I'm scum and m!Koshi just took terrible I always bus him. I want town credit because he's going to die (personal opinion). It's more the whole Koshi survives by being so bad he can't possibly be scum. But obviously by votes that makes me scum. Kk. Reasons I got so fed up.. 80% of town just played dumpster this game (myself included), and it's wrong to say I should see obvious mafia when literally more than 3/4 of the town this game just toss themselves into drowning in the ocean..
it was after MZ flipped that we locked in town Koshi, has nothing to do with earlier.
this whole convo is about why you should have been lock town Koshi lock scum Pandain on D5.
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@MZ
Yeah, work well for you since hydra took off and ran because I didn't die hehe.. So scum always wins anyway!
@Bugs
Ok but you hard stance against't me for not getting lock t!Koshi/ m!Padain.
m!Padain I can get but as MZ just said I lived because mafia was dis-organized, and I lived basic by chance.. So adding this to reasons to scum read me is obviously wrong.
[edot: not always wrong, logic is actually good, but people do stupid things which leads me back to my first post end game.. Don't scum read me scum for not making sense, So much more likely I just afk and get told what to do rather bury myself as mafia]
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I got to go sleep if I want to not be a corpse in the morning. Nights friends, thanks for advice and opinions  !
Night night~
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On August 06 2019 13:12 Eversince wrote:
@MZ
Yeah, work well for you since hydra took off and ran because I didn't die hehe.. So scum always wins anyway!
@Bugs
Ok but you hard stance against't me for not getting lock t!Koshi/ m!Pandain.
m!Padain I can get but as MZ just said I lived because mafia was dis-organized, and I lived basic by chance.. So adding this to reasons to scum read me is obviously wrong.
[edot: not always wrong, logic is actually good, but people do stupid things which leads me back to my first post end game.. Don't scum read me scum for not making sense, So much more likely I just afk and get told what to do rather bury myself as mafia]
No shit? Lol. I don’t get your point. I should’ve townread you for pushing the mafia agenda that Koshi could be scum there, after scum Pandain parked his vote on him the previous cycle, which was LYLO round 1?
Koshi and us played (almost) optimally. The optimal lynch was technically Pandain. You played like scum and got lynched for it. I’m only here so you have a chance of learning why you looked exactly like scum to the only other two (three, really, cause Jock and I count twice) players who were on the same faction as you. Actually probably count branch in that, and count a bunch of people in the obs too. #noregrets
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I appreciate it too Bugs. I know I'm pretty bad, despite so many games later I'm still trash :'(!!
So I appreciate when players here stick around to give advice. Honest one of the main reason I still play here so long later.
Anyway, out of bath now, so I probably be asleep. We can go to PM's later if you have any other explanations (IE: When I re-read Pandain but I don't know when that happens, but I didn't get it then, and I don't want to spam up this thread).
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On August 06 2019 13:54 Eversince wrote:
I appreciate it too Bugs. I know I'm pretty bad, despite so many games later I'm still trash :'(!!
So I appreciate when players here stick around to give advice. Honest one of the main reason I still play here so long later.
Anyway, out of bath now, so I probably be asleep. We can go to PM's later if you have any other explanations (IE: When I re-read Pandain but I don't know when that happens, but I didn't get it then, and I don't want to spam up this thread).
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No worries. You seem like you genuinely wanted to know why we were saying the things we were saying which is why I’m putting in effort to explain what I saw
I was very confident on Pandain independent of the votes but the votes made him stick out a lot. Random thoughts:+ Show Spoiler +I don’t really know how to explain how I read Pandain, but it comes down to him helping “solve” things if that makes sense. I personally have no idea how people scumread him when he sticks out as obvious town. This is the first game I’ve played against scum Pandain and his style is wildly different.
I think also knowing he and MZ are veterans made it easy for me to figure out exactly what they were doing from the scum perspective as well because neither of them (no offense to either of you btw lol) seemed like very active, skilled scum. “Average” scum sort of fit into a neat little box and they share a lot of similar traits.
Eywa on the other hand played really well and kudos to him & Koshi for catching onto him.
VE talked me into a draft of a scum guide a long time back, maybe i should finish it...
And get Ace to poop on it and tell me why it sucks
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Uff, I hate my life.. Lay down and not an hour later phone rings "oh btw, we show up in 45 minutes." I function on 40 minutes of not even sleep T.T!! Stupid summer raining 3 months into nothing but humid 36-40 C heat throwing all my times way off this year. sheesh!
Yeah, I always try to learn from mistakes, and this community seems usually very open to doing it! So I play here  .. Just because I can fail hard and then post game people just tell me how to fix problems instead of hating on it..
VE as Viscera Eyes? ( prolly miss-spelled, been long time since I played with him but my husband use to play with him in LoL)
Get Ver/ Marv to come in a dump (maby I give to much credit to them here but I obs a bunch of a games, played with Marv [never had the pleasure of playing with Ver he was gone by time I join] a time or two, he'd just come in and wreck scum.)
Ace was a blast to obs too !
I really liked watching HTS games too. She was a inspiration to me. Thinking back on it now I think she was one of my tutors on my student games..
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On August 06 2019 09:11 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2019 08:31 Alakaslam wrote:
From now on, I am lynching all assholerry. It is unpleasant and too effective a cover for scumplay from my perspective Isn't that a bit of an over generalization?
Meh
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HTS was awesome one of my early shadows. I only served to confuse her unfortunately
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The saddest thing about this game was the lack of Chezinu.
Moar Chezinu please next time.
I was browsing the tl.net 'old town' and came across the House of Chezinu mission statement and it intruiged me greatly.
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Canada11355 Posts
But seriously I called out mz and had eywa scum all game also
On July 23 2019 13:32 Fecalfeast wrote:
last one to post is mafia not it
Pandain was the last non-sub person to post after this so I'm taking all the postgame cred thanks
Also it's my korean birthday woop woop
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On August 07 2019 02:53 Fecalfeast wrote:But seriously I called out mz and had eywa scum all game also Pandain was the last non-sub person to post after this so I'm taking all the postgame cred thanks Also it's my korean birthday woop woop
I wanted to kill you D1 but it would have directly implicated the entire team. You played a really good game.
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Canada11355 Posts
On August 06 2019 05:36 NoSmurfHere wrote:Thanks to grack for hosting! Really enjoyed the game Also sorry if I was a bit too harsh on anyone, within the game I of course have strong opinions. Please don’t take anything I say personally and do let me know if I’m being too much of an asshole. Some random thoughts: + Show Spoiler +
I have pretty much no regrets this game, the only thing I would change is that I should have leaned much much harder on MZ and Pandain because I gave both players huge passes when they didn’t deserve them, especially day 1.
If I had the time or the energy I would have probably tried to derail the Chezinu lynch. I think it would’ve ultimately made no difference though because first 3 cycles was TvT every single time.
At LYLO if you are a townie (ahem Eversince) please do not hold your vote till the last moment. idgaf if that’s how you play normally because you are literally signaling that you are either scum or are going to waste your vote and consolidate on whatever wagon that appears which means you are essentially useless for the cycle.
This is especially the case because holding your vote for so long is not inclusive, it is not cooperative, and it is an incredibly selfish play; it does not consider the perspectives of the other townies who are trying to figure out your alignment. Your vote is more important than your voice. As an example, if I were solo playing this game, in LYLO I would not be around for the 6-7 hours before deadline because it’s at 5 am. I am only here now because my flight arrived 30 minutes ago and I’m waiting on a bus.
In that situation, if a player says they’re going to hold their vote till the end there’s absolutely nothing I can do except park my vote earlier in the day and hope I am right. I am forced to lead on my best scum read (aka I’m now forced to play selfishly too) rather than cooperatively work out what’s best for the entire faction.
I believe this applies not just in LYLO but on other days too. Had we started cooperating earlier this game would have been a lot easier. For instance, Koshi’s points on Eywa were all really good. Had we been able to start on that path one cycle earlier it wouldn’t have mattered if ES was low on time, not really understanding what was going on (mixing up day 2 and day 4? Lol) etc.
Not being cooperative is also 100% the reason town lynched both rayn and FF, IMO. I think it’s also quite telling that Jock and I took a lot of flak for these lynches even though in the end I don’t believe we really swung them much at all. Our vote on rayn wasn’t even consequential, for instance.
-wherebugsgo
In what way was I not being cooperative could you maybe explain what you think I did to deserve getting lynched
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On August 08 2019 10:43 Fecalfeast wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2019 05:36 NoSmurfHere wrote:Thanks to grack for hosting! Really enjoyed the game Also sorry if I was a bit too harsh on anyone, within the game I of course have strong opinions. Please don’t take anything I say personally and do let me know if I’m being too much of an asshole. Some random thoughts: + Show Spoiler +
I have pretty much no regrets this game, the only thing I would change is that I should have leaned much much harder on MZ and Pandain because I gave both players huge passes when they didn’t deserve them, especially day 1.
If I had the time or the energy I would have probably tried to derail the Chezinu lynch. I think it would’ve ultimately made no difference though because first 3 cycles was TvT every single time.
At LYLO if you are a townie (ahem Eversince) please do not hold your vote till the last moment. idgaf if that’s how you play normally because you are literally signaling that you are either scum or are going to waste your vote and consolidate on whatever wagon that appears which means you are essentially useless for the cycle.
This is especially the case because holding your vote for so long is not inclusive, it is not cooperative, and it is an incredibly selfish play; it does not consider the perspectives of the other townies who are trying to figure out your alignment. Your vote is more important than your voice. As an example, if I were solo playing this game, in LYLO I would not be around for the 6-7 hours before deadline because it’s at 5 am. I am only here now because my flight arrived 30 minutes ago and I’m waiting on a bus.
In that situation, if a player says they’re going to hold their vote till the end there’s absolutely nothing I can do except park my vote earlier in the day and hope I am right. I am forced to lead on my best scum read (aka I’m now forced to play selfishly too) rather than cooperatively work out what’s best for the entire faction.
I believe this applies not just in LYLO but on other days too. Had we started cooperating earlier this game would have been a lot easier. For instance, Koshi’s points on Eywa were all really good. Had we been able to start on that path one cycle earlier it wouldn’t have mattered if ES was low on time, not really understanding what was going on (mixing up day 2 and day 4? Lol) etc.
Not being cooperative is also 100% the reason town lynched both rayn and FF, IMO. I think it’s also quite telling that Jock and I took a lot of flak for these lynches even though in the end I don’t believe we really swung them much at all. Our vote on rayn wasn’t even consequential, for instance.
-wherebugsgo In what way was I not being cooperative could you maybe explain what you think I did to deserve getting lynched
I think we were cooperative just not with him.
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EPT
