[N] Uninspired Mafia

On May 01 2019 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote:

Yeah I've got a question - is your resistance to the Jock lynch intentional or circumstantial? Like, I get that you're suspicious of MZ or whatever, but you say MZ "smells blood in the water", does that imply that you think Jock is town?

I gotta go to band practice I'll be back in a few hours

On May 01 2019 19:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Liiiike if FF were the other wagon and not MZ that would just be super.

On May 02 2019 07:01 VisceraEyes wrote:

Nobody asked.

On May 02 2019 04:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
I like to think of myself as a bit of a rayn-whisperer....

On May 02 2019 09:59 VisceraEyes wrote:

Rayn feels town yeah. I think Pandain or HF made this read last game that I think is accurate that says rayn makes posts where he thinks everything is obvious to everyone else so doesn't give much reasoning. Actually it may have actually been rayn self reflecting in early game.

Anyway that's how I feel abt him this game. I think it feels townie.

WBG: But he's self aware making the meta useless right? He can emulate it as town.

I agree generally, except when he tries it feels fakelike and agenda-laden. It fool's some. I'm less fooled.

On May 03 2019 03:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah I think I'd lynch Pandain. I have exactly two games of mafia on TL in the last year or so, they were the last one and this one. In the last game I started as town, had a strong townread on Pandain from D1, and ended up recruiting him the next day because he was so townie.

Interestingly, his posting from D3 onward looks a lot more like this game, though the thread was admittedly fucked by that point anyway in the last game. My read is more based on my LACK of strong townread on him throughout D1, persisting until now. I feel like Pandain is a much stronger poster than what we're seeing here. I think he's hiding something nefarious.

On May 03 2019 04:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
He says he's got Meta with MZ, that his style feels like mafia from games past. Does his reticence MAKE him mafia? Not in my opinion, he's stated he doesn't want to "tip off MZ" or whatever, which I HAVE seen from townies.

Will it make him mafia if he continues to give no reasoning past N1? We can definitely have that talk.

On May 03 2019 07:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
You know what

No.

Pandain.

No.

You don't get to come in here and jizz all over the thread about "trying to lynch the gf" when A) you had literally zero credibility beyond your ability to provide ONE vote, and not even a vote OFF the main wagon. It was a useless vote on Rels that went nowhere and meant nothing, just like the Vivax vote.

In fact, it makes sense to me that the mafia team would be trying to capitalize on a possibly MODKILLED GF.

##Vote: Pandain

On May 03 2019 07:35 VisceraEyes wrote:

Oh me too bugs! Me too now that I know it was the godfather! I bet no one in here would say they wouldn't have voted Vivax at the end of the day had they been here.

On May 03 2019 09:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
I explained it before - he was active in trying to respond to people and actively questioning people last game, it's littered through his filter there, and it's lacking here.

The fact that you found the word "contradictory" in both filters simply isn't interesting to me.

Yes, obviously it's possible that my view was tainted because I had information, but I'm discussing objective observations made when looking at the two filters in /this/ game where I'm town. I really don't want to quote wall but I will bugs, I'll fucking do it.

And yes, I'm aware that there's going to be a fair amount of confirmation bias going forward due to my read of him and then him coming in with that BULLSHIT after the day post.

Whatever I'll turn in my townie card if I'm wrong.

On May 03 2019 08:14 wherebugsgo wrote:


from my standpoint and the knowledge I have this is a post that manages to say absolutely nothing.

"I was liking what HF posted" -> cool, if you're scum you already have the knowledge that HF is town

"VE is almost always town" why? slides into hypothetical about VE if I flip scum -> knows that this will never happen so it's a completely empty thing to say

MZ is setting up a lynch on Pandain after I flip here with this post.

On May 03 2019 21:05 Koshi wrote:
I dont believe HF but I do want to vote wbg. Annoying.

On May 03 2019 22:14 VisceraEyes wrote:

What about his defense gives you pause? Do you agree with it?

On May 03 2019 22:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like are you shipping bugs as mafia? Is that what the hesitance is?

On May 04 2019 01:49 VisceraEyes wrote:

You think it's better or worse than a lynch on you? That's the question that matters currently.

On May 04 2019 02:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
The only vote before the claim was Koshi, who has be unabashed about sheeping rayn.

There simply never was any momentum to lynch you until the claim. We're seeing you flail. It's actually sad.

##Vote: wherebugsgo

On May 04 2019 03:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
Lynch is in 25.5 hrs. I appreciate the enthusiasm though MZ.

On May 04 2019 03:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ya I'm not voting Rels. If you want to get down on a lurker lynch, I suggest Pandain as A) he's lurking B) he has content by which to judge him and C) there's a preestablished interest in removing him from town.

The only person AGAINST his lynch vocally is the other wagon.

That you're poopooing his lynch makes you WAY more suspicious to me.

On May 04 2019 03:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Higher probability scum.

Bugs only looks like mafia because of how he's flailing here, now. His play before now looked pretty null to me, leaning townie. The exchange between he and HF is a tough call though - like I said before, he looks like mafia because of how "resigned" he is to his fate. He even didn't believe HF's claim all along and STILL felt "momentum to lynch" him, even after the claim was retracted.

Further, he looks worse because he ultimately believed HF - though the progression looks relatively natural, it could just as easily be him realizing the miller angle slowly, as others were realizing it too. As a townie, MY gut reaction is "WELP LOOKS LIKE WE GETEM BOYS!!!" if someone fake-claims on me, I INSTANTLY assume they're mafia trying to fuck me. It never really looked like bugs had that reaction.

HOWEVER

In the spirit of transparency, I'm not confident in my ability to accurately read bugs or his intentions. He's always been something of a wild-card to me and that frustration has bubbled over several times in our history. That could be coloring my hesitation to call him scum - I've been wrong SO MUCH before about Bugs. But like I said before - his play lacks a sharp edge that his mafia game typically has, so I've been leaning town most of the game.

On May 04 2019 03:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Higher probability scum.

Bugs only looks like mafia because of how he's flailing here, now. His play before now looked pretty null to me, leaning townie. The exchange between he and HF is a tough call though - like I said before, he looks like mafia because of how "resigned" he is to his fate. He even didn't believe HF's claim all along and STILL felt "momentum to lynch" him, even after the claim was retracted.

Further, he looks worse because he ultimately believed HF - though the progression looks relatively natural, it could just as easily be him realizing the miller angle slowly, as others were realizing it too. As a townie, MY gut reaction is "WELP LOOKS LIKE WE GETEM BOYS!!!" if someone fake-claims on me, I INSTANTLY assume they're mafia trying to fuck me. It never really looked like bugs had that reaction.

HOWEVER

In the spirit of transparency, I'm not confident in my ability to accurately read bugs or his intentions. He's always been something of a wild-card to me and that frustration has bubbled over several times in our history. That could be coloring my hesitation to call him scum - I've been wrong SO MUCH before about Bugs. But like I said before - his play lacks a sharp edge that his mafia game typically has, so I've been leaning town most of the game.

On May 04 2019 04:49 VisceraEyes wrote:


Did you not get this bit?

On May 04 2019 04:57 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

What do you make of that VE?
Also what do you make of FF saying he's down for Rels and then down for Pandain just as quickly?

On May 04 2019 07:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
Try and lynch me if you think it's fake. Good fucking luck.

On May 04 2019 08:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Did you see Fecalfeast fucking BODY MZ a bit ago btw? I recommend you try and start a counterwagon on MZ!

On May 04 2019 08:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
wbg goes inactive at the craziest time. Figures

On May 03 2019 03:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Anyways i think vivax + bugs + pandain is a reasonable option for mafia.
Murder Vivax please if he is not dead come D2.

On May 04 2019 08:49 Pandain wrote:


No my point is that only one person died. So are we just assuming that mafia has one kp? Probably not, then town would be hugely advantaged. So the fact that only one person died suggests there was a medic save or a vet got shot.

On May 04 2019 12:17 wherebugsgo wrote:


HF is the only person in the thread who has consistently managed to get a wagon going. Jock, myself, Pandain.

On May 04 2019 12:26 VisceraEyes wrote:

1kp fixed is in the OP BC I'm not accepting dumbtells at this time.

On May 04 2019 12:27 wherebugsgo wrote:


He doesn't seem to be aggressive in pushing to me, no. I'd classify his play as opportunistic in this game.

On May 04 2019 12:29 VisceraEyes wrote:
Still not accepting dumbtells.

On May 04 2019 12:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's why I think HF's play is so strong - he mixes the old style of play where he can string more than three sentences together in a post with the newer style of play where he's aware of the thread and interacts with it a lot...and it comes across as opportunistic and scummy in a really general sense, so it makes him hard to read by default.

On May 04 2019 12:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Would you also say he is normally fairly aggressive/loud in pushing his views/opinions?

On May 04 2019 12:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
TBH I am currently filter diving HF as hes had a few posts that make me reallllly question him.

I asked VE and you questions basically to ensure that my general though process isn't well, insane. The fact that VE holds the same opinion as me in that HF is normally aggressive and well, I am not seeing that this game. And haven't during any of it. End of the world he was aggressive and was a center of spawning conversation whereas this game he isn't and instead he comes off almost apathetic to my eyes.

So now I dive and re read things in context to what was happening in thread.

On May 04 2019 12:59 wherebugsgo wrote:


I would suggest first diving HF, then reading in context of the rest of the posts (there aren't many in this game, so it shouldn't take long. That's a nice thing about low activity)

Then, once you've come to some conclusion, I'd suggest looking at my interactions with HF from my filter, and see if your conclusion changes after seeing my perspective.

BTW, the activity bit made me realise one other thing. I wouldn't classify this town as cohesive nor do I think it's a particularly active game. HF is an active player as either alignment and I think moderate activity is great for town while extremes (very low/very high) are often bad for finding scum. HF tends toward a higher-activity type player, but as far as I can tell has expressed no frustrations this game that there are a ton of players who haven't contributed, or haven't even bothered to vote. His attitude comes across more like just apathy and I find it hard to believe that a high activity town player like him wouldn't be a little bothered that they can't easily figure out the game due to people just not participating.

On May 04 2019 04:23 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

I wouldn't really say Pandain lurking in the same way Rels is. Rels seems to have given up which is what I'd expect whereas Pandain was still trying when he was here. I think your case against Pandain is good, I've said that a bunch of times, but I think you're tunneled on him at this point and not considering other options.

On May 04 2019 22:44 wherebugsgo wrote:


keep digging yourself deeper, your explanations just keep surfacing more questions and make it clear you're just making this up on the spot. If you asked for clarification and were worried about revealing your role by just voting him why wouldn't you wait until after the question was answered to vote him?

Also, if FF and slam were voting your supposed scumread of Pandain, why the fuck would they be completely null to you?

On May 04 2019 23:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm not beyond convincing Holyflare, you just have to convince me that you ACTUALLY BELIEVE that there's only one power-role in this game and that YOU'RE IT, the Town Veteran.

On May 04 2019 09:35 Pandain wrote:


The only okay points are lack of activity night one and fake inconsistencies regarding Jock, which I addressed and you never responded to. It absolutely was not inconsistent at all.

On May 03 2019 03:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Please don't shoot me mafia because i am a veteran and i'd like to play another day because this game actually got very interesting in my opinion.

On May 05 2019 03:20 VisceraEyes wrote:

It's almost as if you were describing YOUR play in this game up to this moment.

On May 05 2019 03:31 VisceraEyes wrote:

Nah, because you're going to bend over and let me lynch you anyway. Rather, convince me to lynch someone else, someone like Pandain or MZ. I know you're down to lynch MZ.

On May 05 2019 03:33 Holyflare wrote:


Fuck off. The whole premise as to why I'm mafia from bugs and bc is that I'm opportunistic and cherry pick and twist narratives.

If you can't point to even one part of this game where I have done that then fuck you.

On May 05 2019 03:34 VisceraEyes wrote:

I don't have to, bugs already did, I looked myself and agreed and moved my vote. You can get angry and indignant all you want, but you had an opportunity to say all this before now.

On May 05 2019 03:37 VisceraEyes wrote:

I won't. Dig yourself out of this.

On May 03 2019 07:01 wherebugsgo wrote:
Vivax literally only mentions FF and MZ in his filter. I think FF is 100% town

On May 05 2019 04:27 Pandain wrote:
I don't know I'm thinking about voting MZ.