EPTbut really though, you should calm down a bit, I think we're scaring people away.
[N] Uninspired Mafia - Page 4
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but really though, you should calm down a bit, I think we're scaring people away. | ||
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On May 02 2019 11:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: If i am mafia and not mafia with HF i know HF is uninterested as fuck and who cares so why do i want to discusssstuff with him? I think i wouldnt if i am mafia and HF town. I have no idea what on earth you're trying to say. I already said I think your interaction with HF makes more sense if you are town. You wouldn't interact with HF if you are mafia and HF is town? Cool story, that agrees with my read and what I actually saw happen. I'm going to stop wasting my time and polluting the thread by replying to you now, consider thinking more before you post. | ||
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On May 02 2019 14:16 Fecalfeast wrote: maf BC vivax maf-ish grack? wbg MZ towny rayn koshi ve hf that's from a once over of the thread based on feels. thinking about hf's pandain case so i haven't placed him yet. rels can die too I can elaborate or whatever if ppl ask i'll be up all night I think why do you think BC is scum? Why did you sheep my vote on MZ and disappear? If you think I am scummy why do you also think MZ is scummy? | ||
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On May 02 2019 15:35 Fecalfeast wrote: BC seemed scummy when I read his posts. Let me take this bong rip and I'll look again at him MZ seemed like a fun pressure vote, got distracted playing rimworld/mtg arena and getting baked. Came back and again got distracted with real life shit. I was around at EoD but I had a physiotherapy appointment at deadline and hadn't really been reading so changing my vote to a wagon would have been purely for lulz what do you think of people trying to get you lynched? (myself included) On May 02 2019 15:37 Fecalfeast wrote: not really much to go on in BC's filter which honestly means i shouldn't probably scum him that hard yet Okay, but doesn't the same thing apply to Vivax? | ||
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On May 02 2019 15:49 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm never a fan of people going for me earlygame (or ever, really) because my scum meta (based on my own memory) is one of high activity earlygame because I'm excited to have rolled mafia. As town I'm often low hanging fruit which, obviously, is self-defeating of my tendency to omgus but it doesn't seem to matter. no Alright, two more questions and I'll let you go. 1. Can you provide me an example game where you play mafia and one where you play town? Feel free to pick a couple that you think are illustrative of what you mean here. 2. Can you elaborate on Vivax? Why is he scummier than BC even though there is less to go on in Vivax's filter than BC? | ||
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On May 02 2019 16:09 Fecalfeast wrote: 1. No, you can look through my games yourself + Show Spoiler [FecalFeast] + TL Mafia LXVIII: Fanfic Crossover Edition Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 2p2 Vanilla Werewolf 13er Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 4 Zesty Italian Dressing Micro Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 1 Newbie Mini Mafia LIX Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 3 Fantasy Football Mafia Mini 2 Town Miller Survived Day 2 Campus Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Day 5 V Titanic Mini Mafia: A Game of Four Hours Mafia Roleblocker Survived Night 2 VI Titanic Mini Mafia: The Return of MSPaint Town Vanilla Survived Day 5 TL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells Town Vanilla Survived Night 5 PYP: Pick Your Protoss Mini Mafia Town Probe Survived Day 2 Linux Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Survived Night 1 Slytherin Mini Mafia Town Gunsmith Survived Day 3 VII Titanic Mini Mafia: I Have a Cunning Plan... Town Vanilla Survived Night 4 XXX Mini Mafia: A Night of Debauchery (18+) Town Vanilla Scum killed Night 3 Office Mini Mafia Town Medic Killed Night 3 Newbie Student Mafia VI Town Vanilla Survived Day 6 TL Mafia LXX: Guardians of the Galaxy Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 7 Jack of All Trades Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Night 3 Newbie Student Mafia IX Town Vanilla Killed Night 1 Hajime no Ippo Maifa Mafia Miguel Zale Lynched Day 2 Carnaval do Brasil Mafia Mafia Vanilla Lynched Day 4 I Still Cant Believe its not Themed Mafia Town Vanilla Modkilled Day 4 Lost But Not Forgotten Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Survived Day 2 II Cannons Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 3 The New Personality Mafia Town Glowingbear Killed Night 4 Student Mafia XV Town Veteran Survived Night 1 Student Mafia XVI Town Veteran Survived Day 5 Newbie Student Mafia XVII: Fullmetal Edition Town Vanilla Survived Day 3 Season of the Witch 2 Town Acolyte Killed Night 3 Newbie Student Mafia XVIII Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 Pick Your Power: Intriguing Mafia Professor Moriarty Lynched Day 2 Who Wants to be a Millionaire Cell Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Survived Day 1 Team Melee Mini Mafia VI: Newbies and Vets Town Vanilla Lynched Day 3 Tortoise Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Day 1 Newbie Mafia XXI Town Vanilla Killed Night 2 Palmars Purge: Crisis and Turmoil in Liquidia Town Ash Endgamed Day 5 Liquidmania Qualifier #3 Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 3 TL Mafia LXXV Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 7 MS Paint-Off Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Day 1 Hurricane Shelter Mafia Mafia Godfather Lynched Day 2 Newbie Student Mafia XXVII Town Vanilla Lynched Day 2 Classic Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 Medic Mafia Town Medic Survived Night 3 2. Vivax doesn't play when he's mafia based on my perception of him in games we've played together including one where we were both mafia re: 1. Actually I've already skimmed through a few of your filters as both alignments and find it hard to distinguish which one is which. Just asked you to pick a couple because I wanted to know which ones you think match what you've said. re: 2. So Vivax is your top read then, since you're not sure on BC anymore? Anyone else you consider scum? What are your thoughts on HF being wrong on Jock and then immediately pushing Pandain after the flip? | ||
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I don't claim to be some sort of Pandain whisperer, but here's my top 3 clickbait list: 1. Pandain's behaviour is different enough between alignments to be noticeable, at least after reading 3-4 games. As town, Pandain seems to be trying to figure things out, and tends to use a lot of conditional language/hedging. Here are a couple examples, which ones are town and which are mafia? Example 1: + Show Spoiler + On October 28 2013 08:46 Pandain wrote: There's too much scum for me to ignore in Rayn. I'll clarify my case. I agree my case on Rayn isn't that convincg. It's based on a whole bunch of small tells. However, given the information we have now he is objectively the most scummy of everyone. WoS you think I might be scum because my reasons are crap, but okay then I guess I'm crap. Let me know why revealing a role to a person who's alignment isn't certain is town or comes from a blue role. I don't think my arguments are weak, they're non-conclusive at best but it's ultimately a matter of debate. I also think you don't like me for some reason, so I hope we can get that behind me. Or if you think I'm bad just address the arguments rather then the person. Sentinel, it's not set in stone but its at least semi-serious. Answer: + Show Spoiler + town Example 2: + Show Spoiler + On November 15 2013 09:52 Pandain wrote: Why do you think he's town so far? I don't think effort is the town indicator you think it is, unless you're looking at something else which of course I may have missed. I don't like this by the way. I totally agree that the best canidate, in yamato's terms but it makes sense anyway, is to vote someone who wants to lynch a scum who you believe is scum. That will make my best vote, but it's not indicative. So right now, if I wasn't voting kush, I would be voting someone who is a good anazlyer probably VE because I think he's alright in the long term and is also town. Even if your town, we're not just trying to vote someone who is town. We want to vote a good analyzer because they get two votes each day. Answer: + Show Spoiler + town Example 3: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2019 04:59 Pandain wrote: Fuck busy again tonight. Can't do a last post but if I die slam and onegu need to be next lynches. Grack I saw your post but meta tells like that are shit compared to actual analyses. Any good player can change their meta, and honestly people can't read meta for shit. Slam has two huge scum tells. He voted for HF and then later pushed HF for lynching palmar(extremely hypocritical and makes sense from mafia perspective). And he also, despite being very active most times, was completely "gone" during the sentinel lynch, and "convienantly" just showed up five minutes after. Yeah right. Lynch this guy. Onegu has just been scummy this whole game, pushing me for absolutely no reason (like actually none. His reason was because of a misunderstanding of acros role later shown to he false. But onegu never backtracked. And he too convienantly afked during sentinel lynch. Also I can't do analysis because g2g but his whole filter is pretty bad. If ace ever lives past night 4 he's 100% scum. Acro is town I think. Don't agree with aces analysis at all. It's not anti town mechanic because he wasn't forced to shoot anyone. Answer: + Show Spoiler + mafia I tried seeing if there is any language Pandain uses differently based on alignment, and you can try searching "think" or "don't think" in filters; I think as scum P uses words like "think" and "don't think" less often than as town but it's certainly not conclusive. Here are some numbers: + Show Spoiler + Thug life: 23 pages mafia - 1.13 don't think per page 21 don't think total 169 think 7.34 per page noir 19 pages mafia 0.78 per page 15 don't think 181 think 9.5 per page end of the world 9 pages mafia 1 per page don't think 57 think 6.3 per page time to die 30 pages town 1.35 per page 40 don't think 280 think 9.33 per page ##mafia 15 pages town 1.7 per page 26 don't think 159 think 10.6 per page 2. P's reads tend to be more consistent as scum and this matches what I'd expect of scum in general being unwilling to change reads. I think townies try to figure out the game rather than just lining up people to kill. I wouldn't expect scum P to just immediately backtrack and put me in a list of potential scum after calling me the towniest person in the game on the same day: I wouldn't at all be surprised to see two scum between BC, VE, HF, bugs, and vivax 3. P was trying to consolidate people to kill Vivax at EoD. This shows initiative and is quite a risk as scum I think-why not just sit back and watch Jock die/what purpose does it accomplish? I tend to believe that scum will look to see if there is support before trying something like that, and actually I've seen that in Pandain's past games as well: On March 14 2019 05:04 Pandain wrote: Is there still support for an MZ wagon? On March 14 2019 05:19 Pandain wrote: For the record I think Onegu should be #1 lynch but I don't see any traction coming. In that game Pandain voted MZ, but then got off MZ when there wasn't any traction and moved to Onegu (following a vote by MZ on Onegu as well, making it clearer that there was traction on Onegu). In general Pandain's vote movements were minimal even with townies getting lynched. Here Pandain was happy to move around the vote and try and get a different person lynched even last minute, regardless of support existing. | ||
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Point 2. He's more consistent as mafia? That's literally the point I'm saying, he's not consistent, his accusations don't align with his posts and furthermore he was hesitant at every point to lynch his mafia read and even tried to vreate shenanigans away from it but then attack everyone on it afterwards. Yes, he's more consistent as mafia, he's not as consistent in this game == I don't think he's mafia in this game. I have no idea how you take me saying P is consistent as scum to mean that P being inconsistent in this game means P should be scum. Point 3. I do not believe for one second you went back through all of his town games and found a specific moment where he did some kind of shenanigan or whatever it is you're trying to prove. This looks almost definitively like you have cherry picked something that fits your narrative because you either have insider information on Pandain's alignment or you're trying to cover for him. Something, I might add, that he absolutely does not need. Nope, I didn't look for shenanigans, I just said that given that he's more consistent as scum and looks for support, I find it unlikely that he would proactively try to push someone else. I do also find it weird that Pandain would blatantly self-contradict on not voting someone scummy but I find this easier to explain from a town perspective than a mafia perspective. Someone who is that self-aware as mafia would not let their vote make them look bad. I guess you can come back and say, well if P is mafia he knew Jock would flip town so P avoided putting his vote on Jock, so I guess we can just call that a wash. | ||
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On May 02 2019 18:35 Holyflare wrote: What a pointless trivial question which I've addressed already. Mz has posted shit all, could be anything. Vivax has done nothing to sway me one way or the other and didn't post anything I hated yet. BC has only made posts I've agreed with. Rayn I can't believe you fell for my posts last night. Reread them as if I'm talking about actual insects :D I will lynch bugs with you. if you're town and we lose this game is 100% on you. Your reads are awful this game and I'm having a hard time believing you're actually town at this point. | ||
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On May 02 2019 18:47 Holyflare wrote: Why is anything on me if we lose? Lol what a shit point. Everyone is an independent responsible for their own actions. My reads being awful is not going to convince anyone of anything to do with my alignment. If you would actually spend the time attacking your mafia reads as much as you did defending your town reads with narratives and figures maybe you'd figure that out. because you are likely to die, and if your reads are shit a lot of people will inevitably sheep you. Reputation matters on this forum. Anyway, you want a point-by-point rebuttal to your case? Here you go: On May 02 2019 07:14 Holyflare wrote: This guy is suspect numero uno. Anybody that uses the phrase "that's scummy regardless of Jock's alignment" is a guy that has tmi and makes it want to look like he's weighing up his options. Not alignment indicative at all. rayn literally said he's not against the lynch but not going to vote for a someone he thinks is townie. Pandain's statement can be taken literally, is an excellent thing to point out, and the addition of "regardless of alignment" doesn't change the motive at all. I myself use that type of language a lot. Let us also not forget that he agreed with all the points on Jock, fought against rayn that jock looked scummy, said rayn was scummy for not trying to save his town read and then dropped it all to try and shenanigan with rayn. "fought against rayn that jock looked scummy" this never happened. Pandain consistently said he thought Jock was a fine lynch but he wanted to vote Rels/Vivax for other reasons. This mirrors my own thoughts, I wanted to pursue MZ but in the end I was fine with Jock dying. Second part "dropped it all to try to shenanigan with rayn" is just a bad filter reading, rayn responded reasonably: On May 02 2019 04:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because he is completely useless and it makes about 70% of the game actually play the game and not just pile their votes on random lurkers and do nothing else. Look if youre town please try to understand that its not necessarily scummy to not play the way you want people to. If i said what i said maybe 5 years ago it probs would make me mafia but i am over trying to convince everyone and everything about that i am right. I play this game for my own amusement nowdays because of reasons, i dont care what people think of me and i only care about if i am right or not and say what i think into the thread. I try to emulate that as much as possible when i am mafia but as mafia i actually have a team and a plan and i also try to execute it. It shows at least to some people, it always does. So idc, if you think i am scummy regardless of jocks alignment maybe you should try get me lynched for whatever on D2. It's gonna be almost as bad as this day pahse. Pandain responded to THIS with "okay then if you don't think Jock is scum why don't we lynch Rels together" Let us also not forget that Pandain wanted to lynch rels (based on incorrect meta that was highlighted several times already) despite a wagon building on Jock, his also scum read, to make rels active again. Then when that didn't take off, Pandain, master of misdirection, avoided joining the jock wagon (his scum read) again for terrible shenanigans. This is probably the strongest argument for Pandain being scum. However, again, the events didn't really unfold like you are saying they did. Sure, if Pandain's sole purpose was to avoid being on Jock I can see him being scum. I'm not sure I can come to this conclusion though. The best argument here I can see for Pandain being scum is that he voted for Rels before looking at Jock, then didn't really want to move his vote to Jock for fear of looking bad/inconsistent (and I think Pandain does this as scum). However if that's the case, why would Pandain move to Vivax later? Then when Jock, his scum read, flipped town (after pandain said he's probably town for no discernable reason why arguing that he was still mafia) Pandain decides to call the entire wagon on Jock, his scum read, and also maybe town read, mafia. No thanks. You mafia mate. Lynch Pandain when I'm gone. He never argued Jock was town, he just hedged. Calling 2 mafia in the wagon I think is a natural progression that lots of townies make after a mislynch. Not alignment-indicative. | ||
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On May 02 2019 18:50 Holyflare wrote: To everyone else thinking bugs is town just look at where he spends his time when in thread: Pointless already answered questions. Calling cases bad but then not addressing the case and instead writing walls of text on defending a town read Pandain instead. Even with Jock it was asking about reading the guide and then complaining about the Jock meta being wrong after the fact. are you serious I've avoided confronting you because I didn't want to pollute the thread, but if you're town, you need to be told this as honestly you're so arrogant, ESPECIALLY when you're wrong. I pointed out that I disagreed with your meta case on Jock right at the beginning and you chose to tell me I don't know how to read. I responded reasonably and instead of entertaining the thought that you could be wrong, you decided to make the environment completely hostile. Now you call me scum because I disagree with you and provide reasons for my town reads. Literally the only acceptable reason for you to play like this is if you are scum. | ||
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On May 02 2019 19:18 Holyflare wrote: That looks like a town read to me, not even a hedge. and you had the audacity to tell me I can't read... I stand by the comment that you were unable to see the differences, it's laughable since you've spent more time defending pandain in the same way I attacked jock than even checking up on Jock. The meta was not wrong in the slightest, he played differently to both his previous games. I just attributed that to being mafia. It was wrong, big deal. Similarly, you've just done the EXACT same defending Pandain. I don't agree with it, in fact it looks like a scummy narrative. I think you're mafia for it because you've spent more time doing that than responding to the actual case in the first place. You then asked me a pointless question about 3 people I've largely already even talked about, which shows you just didn't care about reading me. You simultaneously say I'm going to ruin the game because if I die people will sheep me but also call me mafia. But then attack me in a way that only makes sense if you know I'm town. It's my literal job as mafia to shit up a thread and make it hostile and out talk people but at every step it's the old fake hedge from you. You stand by it because you're either bad or you're intentionally trying to goad me. Neither is a good look for you. I'm hedging because I have a hard time reading veterans who act anti-town seemingly on purpose. If you're town what is the point of you being hostile to other players who disagree with you? | ||
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On May 02 2019 18:35 Holyflare wrote: What a pointless trivial question which I've addressed already. Mz has posted shit all, could be anything. Vivax has done nothing to sway me one way or the other and didn't post anything I hated yet. BC has only made posts I've agreed with. Rayn I can't believe you fell for my posts last night. Reread them as if I'm talking about actual insects :D I will lynch bugs with you. Rayn is this scum HF being fake aggressive or town HF who thinks he's posted something but actually hasn't? I ask him about MZ, Vivax, and BC. 1. Up until this post, MZ is not at all mentioned in HF's filter. Here, HF doesn't take a stance. 2. HF did say the same thing about Vivax earlier, so sure, fine. But again, no stance. 3. "BC only made posts I've agreed with" no direct interaction besides that first weird mistake post HF had, we can come to this conclusion I suppose based on the fact that BC and HF both voted Jock but why should vote alignment matter in reading BC? So why does HF say this is a pointless question when the only thing that HF actually said was #2? | ||
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On May 02 2019 19:56 Holyflare wrote: 1. What has mz done since that required me to take a stance on him? Like I said, he's done shit all. Also I quite categorically do mention him in my filter. I ask him when he's going to stop fannying around not voting Jock, which now Jock has flipped town makes him look more suspicious. Regardless, I don't have enough information because he just hasn't posted enough. If anyone says they can form an opinion on him they're either lying or wrong. 2. Yup. 3. What has BC posted since that would make me change my mind? If you think it's anything to do with voting alignment or whatever nonsense then ok but it's clearly not and I've highlighted that in my post. If someone says stuff I am thinking before I've posted it when reading the thread there's a strong chance we're on the same wavelength and are the samw alignment. That's a pretty basic tenet of mafia. Either way, you've only just now blatantly gone through my filter to check these things and then point it out after the fact. You've asked me the question before you even knew whether I had answered them. So this question WAS largely pointless because: A) you didn't know if I had already talked about them B) you didn't actually care about the response because you've gained nothing from it other than showing your true colours the more you post the more I'm thinking you are mafia. Occam's razor: I didn't recall you ever talking about those 3 players before asking that question. Do you filter everyone before you ask them a simple question? Then, I found your response odd and strangely aggressive, so I tried to figure out is it because my memory was wrong and you did actually talk about those things, or is it because of some other reason? Obviously at that point I would go and reread. I find it remarkable that after the flip you just decided to move onto the next lynch without even stopping to considering why you might have been wrong, or if mafia were involved in pushing that wagon. Even though you agreed with BC you should at the very least go back and reread and see if you need to reevaluate in context of the flip and I find it hard to believe that as town you wouldn't do that. | ||
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1. What has mz done since that required me to take a stance on him? Like I said, he's done shit all. Also I quite categorically do mention him in my filter. I ask him when he's going to stop fannying around not voting Jock, which now Jock has flipped town makes him look more suspicious. Regardless, I don't have enough information because he just hasn't posted enough. If anyone says they can form an opinion on him they're either lying or wrong. when he was absolutely 100% fine with taking a stance and killing Jock over like 5 posts. This pretty much proves that HF isn't posting in good faith. The "mention" thing is a pretty hilarious politician-like dodge too by just taking the phrase absolutely literally to score some points, followed by nothing more than basic summarization. | ||
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On May 02 2019 20:21 Holyflare wrote: Then I will leave you in disbelief. All the evidence is here for everyone to look at themselves now  Yes, I do filter people before I ask them questions because otherwise it is pointless. this is something small but I want to point this out as well. mafia is not a game where opinions are static for all of time. HF doesn't have any ground to stand on here because it's just not true that you can just come to the conclusion that you know exactly how a player stands on a given issue just by reading their posts, because townies change their positions constantly. This is a pretty big scumtell because mafia are more likely than town to be very aware of exactly what stances they've taken so that they don't accidentally go and "contradict" themselves later. Townies OTOH are happy to change their opinions fluidly with the events in-game because they are operating with limited info and trying to actually figure things out. | ||
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If you're scum lucky for you I still consider MZ and BC higher chance to flip scum than you. You're on par with Vivax though, and if I had to choose right now I'd kill you over Vivax 100% | ||
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On May 02 2019 20:47 Holyflare wrote: I... Don't seem to have any reads? Wtf? I think pretty much I'm one of the only people in this game to even make cases on my mafia reads. everyone, please take note again. HF lists five players here: On May 02 2019 18:53 Holyflare wrote: Koshi/bugs/rels/vivax/pandain Based on bugs defence of pandain tempted to take pandain out but we'll see. Koshi hit or miss kinda like what he posted but I trained him as mafia well and he's a complete non entity. Literally no justification on any of these except Pandain. And even on Pandain, because now I'm arguing with HF he is tempted to take Pandain out (?) Koshi: hit or miss (but scum...?) Vivax, says this: On May 02 2019 18:35 Holyflare wrote: What a pointless trivial question which I've addressed already. Mz has posted shit all, could be anything. Vivax has done nothing to sway me one way or the other and didn't post anything I hated yet. BC has only made posts I've agreed with. Rayn I can't believe you fell for my posts last night. Reread them as if I'm talking about actual insects :D I will lynch bugs with you. but listed as scum. rels: called meta on rels incorrect but lists him above. In fact, part of the attack on Pandain was this supposed incorrect meta read on rels. read on me: wrong now trying to spin as if he has reads because in the lowest of low activity games he's the only one to have posted a "case". | ||
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