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On March 07 2019 22:26 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 22:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 07 2019 22:15 Vivax wrote:
Prediction : Rayn and mocsta will both end up on BH anyway.
Nah i wont be changing my vote, even if it comes close between bh and hf. I seriously hate the fact hf is incapable of even remotely discussing my case after some un-analystic post about it so i cba anymore. I looked at your case and I didn't agree with it. I'm finding it hard to follow your latest case on him. He said something about rsoul/you that was based on a false read palmar gave? Is that right?
youre late already. go read if you care its all there.
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I'm leaning heavily towards a scum read on BH right now. The more he posts the more scummy his motivations seem to be. His attacks on hf look as if he has made them up on the spot in an effort to try and paint hf as mafia, rather than coming to natural conclusions about hf from available evidence.
The best example of this is the following post:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote:
HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT:
Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost.
Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me.
Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad.
Other Scums: oh no!
Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH.
Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH...
Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched.
Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
This is pure speculation and I like how creative it is, but it is not evidence.
He then refers back to this as 'compelling' a few posts later, but as we can see it isn't compelling its a rather badly shoehorned piece of fiction, designed to create an mirage.
On March 06 2019 18:31 Blazinghand wrote:Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case: Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote:
HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT:
Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost.
Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me.
Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad.
Other Scums: oh no!
Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH.
Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH...
Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched.
Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby
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Hf remind me, what do we learn when bh flips?
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On March 07 2019 22:14 Mocsta wrote:
Thata it
Im voting bh
We need day1 closure
Im honestly ok with losing if hf is scum
I really cant see it
##vote: BH
Oh come on, mocsta. I don't want to make a BH is town post, because most of the reasoning is already in my filter, but lynching BH for information doesn't make any sense at all. You want to lynch for information? Lynch scum. That's the only real way to get information on who was reticent about lynching them, and hedging their bets. But lets say we lynch "for information":
If BH is scum (unlikely at this point), I guess it looks bad for Vivax, but Conversion, the one who sealed the deal, already flipped town. It also looks kinda bad for anybody else on the trfel wagon, but any decent scumteam is going to distribute votes and some will be bussing their buddy, especially if their buddy is BH begging to get killed in the thread. Imho, there is very little information to be gained here even if he's scum. Maybe from today's lynch you'd gain more, but I'm willing to be scum is not gonna vote to save him now either. I sure as hell wouldn't if I were mafia.
If BH is town, it literally didn't matter at all to scum what wagon they were or weren't on in D1, and we learn jack shit from flipping BH. They were welcome to vote for whoever they wanted. I guess people who didn't bother to consolidate on either of the wagons look bad, but with so many people just plain afk, even that is hard to figure out.
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Acrofales mocsta is mafia and their plan today was to try to find any lynch other than BH and HF and when it doesn't work they go for BH and at least try to ride the cred from their D1 votes. Rayn, rso and HF that'd be.
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On March 07 2019 21:46 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 19:22 AMG wrote:
Gun to my head, I'd say the scum team involves Ace, Onegu, possibly BH.
Please, if a replacement can be found for this position, give them a fair opportunity to prove themselves. Ah the scummaz coming out with their votes finally now that they see where thread sentiment is turning. Love it.
Why did you write this if you think I'm town? What thread sentiment is he following?
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On March 07 2019 22:32 Jockmcplop wrote:I'm leaning heavily towards a scum read on BH right now. The more he posts the more scummy his motivations seem to be. His attacks on hf look as if he has made them up on the spot in an effort to try and paint hf as mafia, rather than coming to natural conclusions about hf from available evidence. The best example of this is the following post: Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote:
HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT:
Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost.
Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me.
Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad.
Other Scums: oh no!
Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH.
Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH...
Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched.
Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me This is pure speculation and I like how creative it is, but it is not evidence. He then refers back to this as 'compelling' a few posts later, but as we can see it isn't compelling its a rather badly shoehorned piece of fiction, designed to create an mirage. Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 18:31 Blazinghand wrote:Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case: On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote:
HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT:
Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost.
Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me.
Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad.
Other Scums: oh no!
Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH.
Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH...
Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched.
Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby
Ok, so what is the point of town!HF to claim a fake vig shot? I didn't incorporate it in my case, because it's mostly wifom, but I really don't see it:
1. He made a big play and it backfired spectacularly.
2. He makes another big play just for shit and giggles? WTF?
Now, lets say BH had gotten vig'd. We'd have a townie counterclaiming the vig shot, and today would have been an even bigger shitshow. Lynch all liars is a damned good policy for a reason, because even if townies *do* do this kind of stupid shit, it is blatantly anti-town play. And the *second* time HF does a big anti-town play in the same damn game.
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I mean, Mocsta on D1 sheeped Palmar while killing him, then wasted his vote on a wagon not happening, but shortly after deadline when marv gets replaced in he shows up to say hi or something along those lines. That already suggests he was there and just didn't switch for being afraid of looking bad for killing Trfel, and the alternative was hammering his own teammate BH.
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Well thank you rsoultin, Mocsta and Grackaroni. At least you gave input.
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On March 07 2019 22:37 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 21:46 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 07 2019 19:22 AMG wrote:
Gun to my head, I'd say the scum team involves Ace, Onegu, possibly BH.
Please, if a replacement can be found for this position, give them a fair opportunity to prove themselves. Ah the scummaz coming out with their votes finally now that they see where thread sentiment is turning. Love it. Why did you write this if you think I'm town? What thread sentiment is he following?
What does this have to do with you?
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On March 07 2019 22:33 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 22:14 Mocsta wrote:
Thata it
Im voting bh
We need day1 closure
Im honestly ok with losing if hf is scum
I really cant see it
##vote: BH Oh come on, mocsta. I don't want to make a BH is town post, because most of the reasoning is already in my filter, but lynching BH for information doesn't make any sense at all. You want to lynch for information? Lynch scum. That's the only real way to get information on who was reticent about lynching them, and hedging their bets. But lets say we lynch "for information": If BH is scum (unlikely at this point), I guess it looks bad for Vivax, but Conversion, the one who sealed the deal, already flipped town. It also looks kinda bad for anybody else on the trfel wagon, but any decent scumteam is going to distribute votes and some will be bussing their buddy, especially if their buddy is BH begging to get killed in the thread. Imho, there is very little information to be gained here even if he's scum. Maybe from today's lynch you'd gain more, but I'm willing to be scum is not gonna vote to save him now either. I sure as hell wouldn't if I were mafia. If BH is town, it literally didn't matter at all to scum what wagon they were or weren't on in D1, and we learn jack shit from flipping BH. They were welcome to vote for whoever they wanted. I guess people who didn't bother to consolidate on either of the wagons look bad, but with so many people just plain afk, even that is hard to figure out. its not info
The two wagons are hf and bh
Im not sure we can get a swing onto an alternate cos no idea whom thw lurkers will latch onto
If bh and hf are both town. I would prefer to lynch bh still
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On March 07 2019 22:38 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 22:33 Acrofales wrote:On March 07 2019 22:14 Mocsta wrote:
Thata it
Im voting bh
We need day1 closure
Im honestly ok with losing if hf is scum
I really cant see it
##vote: BH Oh come on, mocsta. I don't want to make a BH is town post, because most of the reasoning is already in my filter, but lynching BH for information doesn't make any sense at all. You want to lynch for information? Lynch scum. That's the only real way to get information on who was reticent about lynching them, and hedging their bets. But lets say we lynch "for information": If BH is scum (unlikely at this point), I guess it looks bad for Vivax, but Conversion, the one who sealed the deal, already flipped town. It also looks kinda bad for anybody else on the trfel wagon, but any decent scumteam is going to distribute votes and some will be bussing their buddy, especially if their buddy is BH begging to get killed in the thread. Imho, there is very little information to be gained here even if he's scum. Maybe from today's lynch you'd gain more, but I'm willing to be scum is not gonna vote to save him now either. I sure as hell wouldn't if I were mafia. If BH is town, it literally didn't matter at all to scum what wagon they were or weren't on in D1, and we learn jack shit from flipping BH. They were welcome to vote for whoever they wanted. I guess people who didn't bother to consolidate on either of the wagons look bad, but with so many people just plain afk, even that is hard to figure out. its not info The two wagons are hf and bh Im not sure we can get a swing onto an alternate cos no idea whom thw lurkers will latch onto If bh and hf are both town. I would prefer to lynch bh still
GAaaaaaargh. I almost want to lynch you instead for this amount of retardation.
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On March 07 2019 22:38 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 22:37 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 21:46 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 07 2019 19:22 AMG wrote:
Gun to my head, I'd say the scum team involves Ace, Onegu, possibly BH.
Please, if a replacement can be found for this position, give them a fair opportunity to prove themselves. Ah the scummaz coming out with their votes finally now that they see where thread sentiment is turning. Love it. Why did you write this if you think I'm town? What thread sentiment is he following? What does this have to do with you?
The thread sentiment is to lynch me and he's saying to lynch the opposite of thread sentiment?
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On March 07 2019 22:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well thank you rsoultin, Mocsta and Grackaroni. At least you gave input.
I gave input my dude
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On March 07 2019 22:37 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 22:32 Jockmcplop wrote:I'm leaning heavily towards a scum read on BH right now. The more he posts the more scummy his motivations seem to be. His attacks on hf look as if he has made them up on the spot in an effort to try and paint hf as mafia, rather than coming to natural conclusions about hf from available evidence. The best example of this is the following post: On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote:
HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT:
Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost.
Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me.
Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad.
Other Scums: oh no!
Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH.
Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH...
Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched.
Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me This is pure speculation and I like how creative it is, but it is not evidence. He then refers back to this as 'compelling' a few posts later, but as we can see it isn't compelling its a rather badly shoehorned piece of fiction, designed to create an mirage. On March 06 2019 18:31 Blazinghand wrote:Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case: On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote:
HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT:
Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost.
Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me.
Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad.
Other Scums: oh no!
Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH.
Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH...
Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched.
Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby Ok, so what is the point of town!HF to claim a fake vig shot? I didn't incorporate it in my case, because it's mostly wifom, but I really don't see it: 1. He made a big play and it backfired spectacularly. 2. He makes another big play just for shit and giggles? WTF? Now, lets say BH had gotten vig'd. We'd have a townie counterclaiming the vig shot, and today would have been an even bigger shitshow. Lynch all liars is a damned good policy for a reason, because even if townies *do* do this kind of stupid shit, it is blatantly anti-town play. And the *second* time HF does a big anti-town play in the same damn game.
That's true, but doesn't say anything about the point I am making. This story BH is telling is meaningless, as if he needed something completely made up to emphasize his argument for some reason.
Also, if we are lynching people for anti-town play, what about the whole of D1/N1 from BH? Blatant anti-town play that has no upside or no possible upside for town.
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Just woke up I see Wiggles is now scumreading me but I not going OMGUS him since I know he hasn't played with me before. I got some comments.
On March 07 2019 17:55 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 17:51 rsoultin wrote:
Which yes I know this is super unhelpful cause I'm the only one seeing what he's writing lol >< But this is what has been eating me about him and I don't see a good reason not to share. Even if he's town with no time to play and I'm just a dumb dumb reading too much into it, his role is pretty useless for determining alignments other than how you would in thread anyway. Perhaps more useless. If you wanted to use the town Masoner to determine alignments, you'd Mason someone scummy N1 and crumb that you masoned them at the end of N1 and crumb again at the end of N2, and if he's mafia there's a non-trivial chance he gets spooked and shoots you, and town will find the crumbs and realize that the scummy guy was who you masoned, and the only guy who knew you were a mason. Maybe lie in a closed-ish setup like this and say that you'll have an alignment check on whoever you mason after the second night, which would really spook mafia (unless you got unlucky and masoned a GF....) there are a lot of possibilities
I had seen a mafia mason recruiter in a game before in Assassin Mafia a few years back.
On March 07 2019 18:40 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 18:36 Holyflare wrote:
Why are we assuming there's 3p now wtf? We aren't. It's some bizarre theory mocsta dreamed up. It might be true, but it doesn't have any real basis.
There is some basis though seeing we got a mason recruiter in Rels so might be other roles not in the op outside of the back up cop and other variants.
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On March 07 2019 22:39 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 22:38 Mocsta wrote:On March 07 2019 22:33 Acrofales wrote:On March 07 2019 22:14 Mocsta wrote:
Thata it
Im voting bh
We need day1 closure
Im honestly ok with losing if hf is scum
I really cant see it
##vote: BH Oh come on, mocsta. I don't want to make a BH is town post, because most of the reasoning is already in my filter, but lynching BH for information doesn't make any sense at all. You want to lynch for information? Lynch scum. That's the only real way to get information on who was reticent about lynching them, and hedging their bets. But lets say we lynch "for information": If BH is scum (unlikely at this point), I guess it looks bad for Vivax, but Conversion, the one who sealed the deal, already flipped town. It also looks kinda bad for anybody else on the trfel wagon, but any decent scumteam is going to distribute votes and some will be bussing their buddy, especially if their buddy is BH begging to get killed in the thread. Imho, there is very little information to be gained here even if he's scum. Maybe from today's lynch you'd gain more, but I'm willing to be scum is not gonna vote to save him now either. I sure as hell wouldn't if I were mafia. If BH is town, it literally didn't matter at all to scum what wagon they were or weren't on in D1, and we learn jack shit from flipping BH. They were welcome to vote for whoever they wanted. I guess people who didn't bother to consolidate on either of the wagons look bad, but with so many people just plain afk, even that is hard to figure out. its not info The two wagons are hf and bh Im not sure we can get a swing onto an alternate cos no idea whom thw lurkers will latch onto If bh and hf are both town. I would prefer to lynch bh still GAaaaaaargh. I almost want to lynch you instead for this amount of retardation. im one vote
I dont see what ur issue is
Im not the make/break for u to get hf flipped
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On March 07 2019 22:40 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 22:38 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 07 2019 22:37 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 21:46 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 07 2019 19:22 AMG wrote:
Gun to my head, I'd say the scum team involves Ace, Onegu, possibly BH.
Please, if a replacement can be found for this position, give them a fair opportunity to prove themselves. Ah the scummaz coming out with their votes finally now that they see where thread sentiment is turning. Love it. Why did you write this if you think I'm town? What thread sentiment is he following? What does this have to do with you? The thread sentiment is to lynch me and he's saying to lynch the opposite of thread sentiment?
That's not at all where thread sentiment is. I only skimmed over the last whole bunch of pages and even I know that. you were here what's your excuse?
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On March 07 2019 22:41 LightningStrike wrote:Just woke up I see Wiggles is now scumreading me but I not going OMGUS him since I know he hasn't played with me before. I got some comments. Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 17:55 Blazinghand wrote:On March 07 2019 17:51 rsoultin wrote:
Which yes I know this is super unhelpful cause I'm the only one seeing what he's writing lol >< But this is what has been eating me about him and I don't see a good reason not to share. Even if he's town with no time to play and I'm just a dumb dumb reading too much into it, his role is pretty useless for determining alignments other than how you would in thread anyway. Perhaps more useless. If you wanted to use the town Masoner to determine alignments, you'd Mason someone scummy N1 and crumb that you masoned them at the end of N1 and crumb again at the end of N2, and if he's mafia there's a non-trivial chance he gets spooked and shoots you, and town will find the crumbs and realize that the scummy guy was who you masoned, and the only guy who knew you were a mason. Maybe lie in a closed-ish setup like this and say that you'll have an alignment check on whoever you mason after the second night, which would really spook mafia (unless you got unlucky and masoned a GF....) there are a lot of possibilities I had seen a mafia mason recruiter in a game before in Assassin Mafia a few years back. Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 18:40 Acrofales wrote:On March 07 2019 18:36 Holyflare wrote:
Why are we assuming there's 3p now wtf? We aren't. It's some bizarre theory mocsta dreamed up. It might be true, but it doesn't have any real basis. There is some basis though seeing we got a mason recruiter in Rels so might be other roles not in the op outside of the back up cop and other variants.
The longer you don't make a decision on me the scummier you get by the way. How have you not made a decision one way or the other yet? Why are you saying the NKs make it less likely I'm mafia? I think that's the exact same NKs I'd make as mafia.
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On March 07 2019 22:42 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 22:40 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 22:38 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 07 2019 22:37 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2019 21:46 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 07 2019 19:22 AMG wrote:
Gun to my head, I'd say the scum team involves Ace, Onegu, possibly BH.
Please, if a replacement can be found for this position, give them a fair opportunity to prove themselves. Ah the scummaz coming out with their votes finally now that they see where thread sentiment is turning. Love it. Why did you write this if you think I'm town? What thread sentiment is he following? What does this have to do with you? The thread sentiment is to lynch me and he's saying to lynch the opposite of thread sentiment? That's not at all where thread sentiment is. I only skimmed over the last whole bunch of pages and even I know that. you were here what's your excuse?
The voice of a minority is not thread sentiment. You only have to look at the vote thread for that.
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EPT
