EPTIf a government is elected, does the election tracker go to 0?
[M][T] Secret Hitler, Act I, Take II
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prplhz
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If a government is elected, does the election tracker go to 0? | ||
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On October 30 2018 08:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think you want to have as much information as possible early on in the game. I don't mean "you can also elect people you think are obviously scummy" as like in every game like this reads ultimately matter in conflicts, but basically at least the first 2 "turns" we should have completely different governments. The player who first gets elected as president cannot be a councellor on second election, but regardless of the first policy's outcome i don't think we should include the first councellor into the second government. Fascist policies, even if elected, in fact do not "kill us" that quickly imo. We should have a town president though, since if the councellor gets 2F cards we cannot know what actually happened, or like... it's a shitty situation where the game usually breaks loose (scum president can always lie they got 3F and were forced to give away 2F). Idk i don't really wanna talk about scum strategy and hopefully they fuck up something. Get a town president, it doesn't really matter even if the coucellor is scum early on. Dont elect any same people on first two governments. That's pretty must the gist of it.  Can't we count the policies and if too many fascist policies appeared, we know that someone is lying? | ||
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On October 30 2018 08:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is also always going to be two policy cards in the deck when the deck is reshuffled, so you can never be 100% sure of all of the cards. But if at this point all presidents declared more than the total number of fascist policies, we can deduce that the one who declared three was lying? | ||
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On October 30 2018 09:21 happykrogan wrote: Can you please explain, what thinking process led you to asking this question? It's that things stay more simple if we can trust the first governments. It's actually I thought, let's just elect kita but he's super hard to read I think, so he can mess things up early and we can't trust anything that's going on later because we don't know if he lied about policies or not. | ||
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On October 30 2018 09:47 Grackaroni wrote: Why were you thinking of electing Kita? He's sort of a nice guy. | ||
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On October 30 2018 18:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Alright. I'll elaborate further later on when i am off work since quoting (and even typing) on phone is like hell for me. I dont understand prplhz' thought process at all and i think its possibly scummy. I mean the "lets pick townie dudes" but "i kinda wanted to include kita because he seems nice" (being nice has nothing to do with being townie or not). I dont think kruger and kitaman can be in a same scumteam unless kruger is exactly hitler because of how the interactions on the thread have gone so far. Kruger seems town anyways so i am okay with whatever he picks. I think kita has a flaw on his resistance proposal, but i dont really think that makes him anything. My thought process was the other way around, I didn't think "let's elect townie dudes and also kita". I thought "let's elect kita". And then I thought "okay maybe let's elect townie dudes and maybe not kita because he's hard to read and if we elect him now, the doubt it creates will linger for a good while". In my posts I actually say "there are some reasons to not elect kita that applies more to him than to others". In many elections in mafia, you don't necessarily elect the most townie person, but some combination of townie and skilled. For example for mayor. I just want to elect townie people in this game because the chancellor doesn't actually have to do anything other than push through a liberal policy. He doesn't need to be any good at mafia to do that. | ||
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On October 30 2018 22:18 Rels wrote: Ok. But I don't understand you townread kita in the first place for being nice. When apparently you think hes a good scum player I didn't. It was early in the game and I had no reads so I went with kita because I think he's nice. I didn't think he was more town than others or that him being nice outside of the game made him more town. | ||
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On October 31 2018 07:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Do you think it's unlikely to be picked up when prplhz basically said "i want to elect townies ofc, lets elect kita, idk what his alignment is"?????? That's not what happened. In most elections in mafia (mayor) you elect a combination of skill/dependability and townyness. In this game, skill isn't really a factor because the job of the president/chancellor is not particularly hard - choose liberal policies. So what I said was "the only thing that is important for president/chancellor, and the only thing the president should think about when choosing a chancellor, is that they are easy to read (and appear town)". happykrogan asked me why I was even thinking about this, my thought process, and I answered with my thought process. First, before the game had any posts, I thought "lets elect kita because he's nice", I might as well have thought "lets elect rayn because he likes to go to the sauna", it was pretty random. Then, secondly, and not simultaneously, I proceeded to think that townyness is the only thing that matters for me in a president/chancellor, and that the best person to elect is the one I find most likely town, rather than someone skilled or someone at random. For example, in most games, I often look at the 3 best players and then I sheep the one I think is most likely to be town. I don't sheep confirmed townies if I think they're unlikely to find scum. I this game, however, I will not just look at the 3 best players, I will only look at who is most townie, because the president/chancellor doesn't have to be good, their jobs are pretty simple and straight forward. I didn't randomly include kita in a list of people to elect, in the first post where I talk about him (in this post) I actually say that we should be wary of him because I think he's hard to read. I'm excluding him more than including him. | ||
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On October 31 2018 09:06 happykrogan wrote: Why was my answer for this question more important to you, than the answers of other people? Because you're up for election. | ||
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On October 31 2018 09:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Meh i am going to try be more clear, sorry, explaining shit is not my strong suit. So purplehaze, this is what bothers me: - You have taken part to discussion of how governments should be elected and imo come to conclusion that we should elect townie people. - After the above has happened, you ask "Is it a good idea to make the chancellor someone who is easy to read?" - When krogan asks you "why do you ask that?", you answer: The last quote doesn't make any sense unless you were, at the time of when you asked "Is it a good idea to make the chancellor someone who is easy to read?", thinking of electing kitaman, but both your answer (in the last quote), and how you took part to the discussion earlier disagrees with that. No, I wasn't thinking about electing kita when I asked that question. Before I asked that question I was thinking about electing kita but then I changed my mind and made a post about what had changed my mind (how readability and townyness ). Then I thought that it was a good idea to elect townie people (and not necessarily super scum hunters), and I wrote it in the thread, in the form of a question because then maybe someone will answer and maybe we can talk about something. I don't think anybody in the thread had clearly expressed the thought that townyness is important, and skill/dependability irrelevant up until that point. But maybe nobody had found that necessary to point out, because nobody had had the same thought process as me which was 1) elect kita/random! (nothing matters) 2) maybe do like mayor elections (or how i pretty much every game in that I sheep a lot)? (skill and townyness matter) 3) no, the only things that matter are readbility/townyness (townyness matters, skill is irrelevant) | ||
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Verdict pending but I don't think I'll make much of it. | ||
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On October 31 2018 09:42 Conversion wrote: not really considering ur in it tbh. should have paid attention Because you didn't know he was in it or because you had forgotten it? | ||
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On October 31 2018 10:06 happykrogan wrote: So why ask in the first place if you don't come to conclusions? Because maybe you could have answered something else that would have been more immediately useful to me. I don't know in advance what your answer may be. | ||
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On October 31 2018 10:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: What would you think if he said he agrees with Rels' idea? Super weird to encourage people to reject their own government. | ||
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On October 31 2018 10:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Is that more immediately useful? If not, what other possible answers are there? I had expected him to be more aggressive towards the people who reject his government. | ||
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On November 01 2018 02:02 happykrogan wrote: So me not fullfilling your expectations doesn't help you to draw conclusions. How would me fullfilling your expectations help you to draw conclusions, if me doing the opposite thing doesn't? You didn't do the opposite, you did like a middle of the road thing that didn't push me in either direction. | ||
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On November 01 2018 02:41 happykrogan wrote: I guess I believe you... But please do more stuff other than still talking about the kitaman thing, which most of your posts are about. It's that I don't have unlimited time and people were super mad. I'm thinking about some other things too, but I'm not ready to post. | ||
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On November 01 2018 03:00 Conversion wrote: was kitaman the one that said just keep electing one dude until facist policy happens? why was that a bad idea again Election tracker and we can't just elect the same dude in two consecutive elections, it's a rule. | ||
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On November 01 2018 08:14 kitaman27 wrote: We should elect rayn as much as possible then. :D :D :D brutal | ||
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On November 01 2018 08:23 Grackaroni wrote: So the next three people up are me, then conversion, then Kitaman. If I'm not getting sent I'm ok with Conversion, but I think he's pretty unlikely to be approved because of his attitude this game. don't you sort of wanna hear who he's planning to chancelorize first? | ||
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Assuming that krogan told the truth about the cards, what are the odds of grack getting 1 or less liberal policies? | ||
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If krogan and rayn told the truth we have 5L9F in the deck. P(0L3F) = 23 P(1L2F) = 49 P(2L1F) = 24 P(3L0F) = 2 I don't have much confidence in the (which was part of why I voted yes to Logan/rayn) but I super want to get elected. Grack is voting against his own government, I don't get it. He chose it. If town, he has 26 chance to force liberal policy and 49 to force either liberal policy or split between me and him. That split will give a lot of info to town because I think that we both are sort of grey in town opinion. Not wanting to elect yourself is just avoiding reasonability, "don't look at me, I didn't do anything!". I don't like it at all. I still think you should elect me though because scum Grack can't really do much without giving up a lot. I think it's super worth it. Sorry for shitty phoneposting. #VotePRPLHZ2018. | ||
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On November 03 2018 00:27 kitaman27 wrote: Do you think that's alignment indicative at all? If anything, it makes me feel slightly better about grack, since as facist he would probably be fine with the status quo. I don't understand. How is downvoting a government not preserving status quo? | ||
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On November 03 2018 00:41 kitaman27 wrote: I disagree because literally any two players will give us information, considering only krogan and rayn have been elected and they can't be chosen. Doesn't it make more sense to get information AND vote for two players that have the best chance of passing a liberal policy? Now that you've read through prpl, does that change your mind about the vote? I think you made a solid point about prpl being "not ready to post.", which doesn't really make sense if you have something important to say unless you're laying a trap, which doesn't seem like prpl's style. I'm still pretty conflicted about whether I'm going to vote yes or no on this one. Any two players will give you information, but not the same amount of information. | ||
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On November 03 2018 03:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: If this government gets passed you can elect me/hk, conversion. Prplhz any reads? Why is grack scum? Uh, I think he started the whole mess about me and kita but then he sort of slipped out of it and just stood on the sidelines. He made a post about probabilities that I sort of disagreed with and looked like he was just spreading chaos. His posting style has some sort of straight forwardsness to it that I associate with townies so that's good. I don't like how he's treating this election this though, voting no to himself, but you should still elect me. I don't have a ton of reads, I kind of like krogan but that's it. I'm equally uncertain about you and kita, Conversion seems to actively attempt to lose this game, I don't know if Rels always acts like this? Like he doesn't player D1 and then he doesn't really play D2 and then he complains on D3 or something. byj sort of slipped under the radar with me but kita pointed out some meta about him and tons of people play like this as town. I was uncertain about Grackaroni and Conversion (which was part of the reason I voted for krogan and you) but I thought I'd figure out kita a bit better before long so I might be able to vote for his government but that's not really happening. | ||
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On November 03 2018 05:50 Rels wrote: Regardless of the kita thing, which I still think is suspicious, the bolded screams of "I am scum and I need an easy subject to talk about". are you seriously going to open up this dumb this again and not even quoting the original post, but the post where i explained the original post. you're not posting the post where i said something but the post where i said that i said something. | ||
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On November 03 2018 05:53 Rels wrote: So. You think Grack is scum, but you still want your duo to pass ? That makes no sense to me. You should be thinking that he's setting you up for failure with what you're writing. no, i don't really know what grack is. i don't get the "setting me up" thing but it doesn't worry me either. | ||
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yea, it seems very unserious if you think something is scummy the second time you read it but not the first time. | ||
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On November 03 2018 05:58 Rels wrote: prp's filter is so scummy it's unbelievable. - easy to talk about subjects (townie people should be elected, talk about number of cards, etc.) - this stuff with kita that makes no sense at the beginning - thinking Grack is scum, but still wanting Grack / him to be elected, even though in that case he himself says he only has 26% chance to get liberal passing show me where i say we only have a 26% chance of passing a liberal policy tell me how to achieve a considerably higher probability of passing a liberal policy in some other manner | ||
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On November 03 2018 06:06 Rels wrote: If Grack is scum and you're town he has 26% chance to be forced to have a liberal policy If Grack is town we have a 23% chance to be forced to pass a fascist policy. The odds are never going to be super great. And he doesn't get to just pass me 2F unpunished. But I sort of get what you're saying, it's more difficult for you to say yes to this because you have some more doubts about me and you don't get the same information from the election that I will get. | ||
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On November 03 2018 06:11 Rels wrote: But I thought it was scummy the first time I read it. I think it's literally my first post. Second on actually. Oh. Alright. | ||
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On November 03 2018 06:09 Rels wrote: That actually doesn't ease my concerns at all. ALmost everything there is at charge against Grack, apart from that line about forwardness. That doesn"'t match your claimed "neutral" read of him. i don't have a strong read of grack, or anybody really, maybe it's slightly scum but i kinda just want to get elected. i don't think it's all that likely nor disastrous if grack passes me 2F. | ||
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On November 03 2018 06:13 happykrogan wrote: I may change my vote to no. prplhz listening stuff why Grack is scummy after he got elected at chancellor seems like setting up a 1v1 after a scum policy gets enacted. Just realized that. i listed stuff because rayn asked me to i don't think scum benefit from doing 1v1 in their first election | ||
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On November 03 2018 06:24 Grackaroni wrote: If I'm scum it's quite likely that I pass you 2F. fine by me | ||
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yea, i believe in all of what i wrote. but you're portraying it as if i expounded on my grack read as part of some nefarious plan, while i actually did it in response to something rayn asked me. | ||
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On November 03 2018 06:26 Rels wrote: First, why don't you think it's likely ? Second, I would think it's pretty disastrous in your shoes. Do you think you have more thread cred than Grack atm ? i don't think that it's a good idea for scum to 1v1 in their first government. and i think that in a 1v1, town will make the right choice. that's just something i always think, if town can't do that then they will lose anyway. | ||
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On November 03 2018 06:24 Grackaroni wrote: If I'm scum it's quite likely that I pass you 2F. first of all, maybe you can't do that. second of all, why would you do that? i'd just spend the rest of the game tunneling you. | ||
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On November 04 2018 03:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because if they are both scum and Grack hands him FL he gets town credit from enacting liberal, whereas now he does not (as he didn't even have a choice). Or he enacts fascist and they both lie (which is stupid but still a possibility). How do they arrange this if they can't communicate? If they don't even know who each other are? | ||
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On November 04 2018 10:05 Conversion wrote: I’m uploading rayn as the chancelore Already or what why rayn? Not that I particularly disagree for now. | ||
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Why does everybody think that he is town? What would he do with 2L1F or 3L other than pass me two liberal? | ||
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On November 05 2018 04:37 kitaman27 wrote: He passed on his own presidency at a point where the vote was really close. There was a 50% chance at FFL, which is great for a facist president because they can discard L and claim FFF. Isn't that just how the probabilities work out almost always? | ||
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To me, he was afraid of me, of the cards, of any responsibility. At some point, something is going to happen, and he seemed to be saying "please just let it happen to someone else". If some president has to get 3F, I hope it will be me, just a lot easier to deal with for me. | ||
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How does the deck look right now? | ||
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On November 09 2018 06:47 kitaman27 wrote: It's mostly a couple of one liners about me and prpl being together though after the day one events. I really can't imagine a town Rels seeing prpl waffling around suggesting that I be elected because I'm "nice" with no other good reason and then deciding "Ah ha! I've find the scum duo". Like how does that even make sense? Didn't just everybody do that? You townread krogan all game, above Grackaroni, why did you choose Grackaroni now? I don't get why people townread Grackaroni for passing me 2L. I sort of understand his reasoning to do it (didn't want to risk a fascist policy if he could force a liberal), but that is no reason to town read him. It's more an excuse for not wanting to pass me 1L1F and get a better read on me on top of a liberal policy. | ||
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On November 09 2018 07:56 Grackaroni wrote: Do you have a preference between Kita and Rels, Prpl? Yes, Rels has gone very much off the deep end. He is calling me hitler because I got 2L and a bunch of other wacky stuff. | ||
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On November 09 2018 07:59 kitaman27 wrote: whoooa look at what I just found?! This is game changing. RELS IS TOTALLY OUTING HIMSELF TO HITLER AT THE START OF THE GAME. VOTE YES HERE!!!!!!! is this real | ||
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who will you nominate Rels? | ||
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I sort of get how you don't play early game, I think you always do something like that, but painting yourself a hero because you do that makes no sense. And right now your cases seem to be just wild flailing, I don't really understand any of it. | ||
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On November 10 2018 02:38 byj wrote: What would you have done if he had just voted yes to all and one had passed a fascist policy instead? I don't get this hypothetical, who would have passed a fascist policy and why? I don't get this at all. | ||
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On November 10 2018 02:41 happykrogan wrote: The fact that you finally come out to say somthing meaningful after a long time of nonrelevant posts and it is to defend a guy which it is likely you are in a team with doesn't look good. Hmm, that does look kind of suspicious. | ||
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On November 10 2018 02:36 Rels wrote: I don't paint myself as a hero, wtf are you talking about ? kita is claiming my sudden motivation is due to my will to attack him and become president, when there is an occam razor's explanation. Your last sentence prove what is checkable. It's not "good" to downvote a government that passes a liberal policy, try a little bit to understand the context. Kita is pushing the idea that: "Rels has downvoted every government that has passed a liberal policy!" But he's also pushing the idea that: "One of the elected people is scum!" Do you get now what it is ridiculous about it ? No. What is wrong with winning a game through scum passing 6 liberal policies in an effort to look good to town? And why is it better to vote no to three governments without scum that passes liberal policies than it is to vote yes to a government with scum that passes a liberal policy? I'm having a very hard time understanding this particular thing. Why is it better to downvote a scum government that passes liberal than to upvote three town governments that passes liberal? Anyway, scum will always want to pass some liberal policies in the beginning for town cred, so let them. | ||
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On November 16 2018 23:30 kitaman27 wrote: Well it was day four, with three passed liberal policies and Rels about to get elected lol. We weren't going to win at that point and we weren't able to concede so I was mostly just throwing stuff out there to set up a scenario where Rels draws FFF and I think you're scum. Unfortunately we didn't really get a break with the cards on the first few days and the president order was a bit unfortunate. On top of that, even prpl got stuck with the LL which I think was actually the right choice from grack. Me and byj weren't really on the same page this game with our voting and prpl accidentally drew suspicion day one linking himself to me, without knowing my identity. XD Congrats to town, well played! I'd be curious to see if prpl picked up on the signal we sent him day one. There was a phrase that would only make sense to him, but it was a reference to something from like 6 years ago  Thanks to Sentinel and Mocsta for hosting. Was fun! didn't pick up on it  | ||
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On November 17 2018 04:37 kitaman27 wrote: Heh it was a pretty obscure reference, but does this mean anything to you? It rings a bell but you are on a higher level than me I think :D | ||
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