EPT[M] Mafia For Busy People
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
So if I'm mathing right there's 9 hours until PC. I should be able to do a full read before that. Not able to access my laptop for the next few hours though. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
I know what the words mean but I want you to rephrase why do you think this makes rayn scummy. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
The rayn I know is very tryhard as TOWN. Not as Mafia. What I want to know is whether the "tryhard" that bothers you is something you consider a universal scum!tell (and which just happens to apply to rayn in this game), or whether your opinion of rayn's meta is completely different from mine. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
Alas, been nursing a fairly epic hangover so it's not just rayn I "don't feel confident about" after the first readthrough. I see a lot of interactions that SEEM like they should help PoE possible Scummiosi. OTOH, I have the recollection that over here players tend to be very aggressive bussers? Regardless of that, many of the questions I have will have clearer answers to them after a more sober re-read and some real-time D2 discussion. Some brief random thoughts: the way Rels talked about rayn in the in-and-out-of-the-Thread -post actually makes me suspect he's Town. rayn is the person I'd assume busyTown!Rels to "sheep" like that. Fuba's tone during N1 makes him the person I'd Vote right now if I wasn't feeling too damn tired to open the official Vote-thread. Couldn't remember a single post by Superbia as I saw the PC-post so that probably means the Scummiosi are Power Role -hunting. iamperfection hasn't been posting much but the lack of the luster rings Town to me. Holyflare I like as Town. Grackaroni, Mocksta, Koshi and kitaman are players who trouble me moreso than the ones not mentioned. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
Feeling better about rayn after his words on HF. Not for the content, I'm not able to judge HF's meta or standing here, but the way they are spoken sounds like Town!rayn. Is there a reason no one is interested in Lynching fuba? Haven't read all of D2 but this is stuff I wanted to say rn. End of day is in 70minutes, not 10 minutes, right? | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
Ah right, I misread kitaman's commentary on rayn during the Palmar--rayn -counterwagons situation. So much for that Scumduo being actually plausible. The thing that troubled me wrt kitaman still troubles me after the filter. I have a hard time trying to explain it in English, though. It sounds like, until the direct D2-discussion with rayn, he tries to comment on everything in a general way that appears good on the surface but includes as little risk to himself as possible while doing it. As in, lacking the committal tone a Townie usually has while trying to solve the game. Am curious about the iamp-wagon -- it's based on him not being around today, and kind of dicking around yesterday? Is he REALLY the kind of player who'd lose interest and drop out as Mafia? Very few players actually do that, even then it's usually in unique circumstances like Scumteam-infighting... admittedly, I don't know iamp as a player, but I'd still be surprised if this was an actual, legitimate reason for a wagon? | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
plz lynch ##vote raynpelikoneet team is probably rayn/koshi " How is your own D1 any better by your own standards, before you start commenting on fuba? | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
Mafia!iamp makes Mafia!Slendy possible, I suppose. But atleast be a darling and don't do to me what Holyflare did to you at the start of D1, mmkay?  Or else I'll continue to use mocking smileys and disparaging phrasing. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
I see no game-solving intent in ANY of Koshi's posts, is my "case", in other words. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
Holyflare COULD be Mafia by the simple virtue of clearly being a very strong player (and by virtue of that very last minute Vote) but I doubt it. If my understanding of the Thread is correct, it feels to me like you, rayn, are letting your emotions affect your HF-stance a bit. You didn't clarify to him about your weekend until just a few moments ago. And, like I said earlier, coming in to the Thread I could completely understand why Palmar (who I haven't played with but have read games from) would find your [rayn's] entrance to the Thread suspicious, even though it wasn't ACTUALLY a legitimate reason for suspicion. I've done the same mistake in earlier games when I didn't realize it was a null-tell. iamp's end-of-D2 seemed awkward and I think I'll need to reread the whole thing again before saying anything other than "it's possible" [that he's Mafia]. But still would, gun to my head, say that he isn't Mafia. Tubesock hasn't convinced me but I haven't read his whole filter. His discussion start-of-D2 with Mocksa seemed weird for him. (And seemed very good for Mocksa, who has continued to seem very Town-like since then, for the record.) Grack has disappeared, both from the pages I've read and from my mind. IIRC he's voiced some suspicions towards kita and also Koshi that make him look better. But I still remember his D1 posts rubbing me the wrong way. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
Wrt the "weird start", I was also puzzled by your first posts. Even though I knew you had been busy etc. But I wasn't talking about HF in that context during N1, I was talking about Palmar. You ask about "figuring out", there wasn't anything special to "figure out". Just that HF seemed to be expecting more from you and didn't understand why your start-of-the-game seemed so lackluster (do to you being busy). So I wasn't referring to anything more special than that. TL;DR I found kitaman's thread presence troubling+didn't see anything that would make me feel confident about rayn=paranoia which I probably should've kept quiet about. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
The shuffle at the very last minute would, regardless, be very weird from a Mafia!HF. Like, even if both you and kitaman were Scum together with him. It would simply be super unnecessary. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
On June 15 2018 01:47 Holyflare wrote: If a medic exists he should just claim so we have to lynch between them and fuba? I was going to say that it shouldn't be done until D3 but now that I think about, your proposition is probably correct. If there is a Doctor-claimant, they SHOULD claim ASAP. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
fuba -- his filter checks out, I'm buying the claim. The weirdness of the tone I noticed earlier (and which troubled me start-of-D2) is also perfectly well explained by a Power-role eager to get to do something behind the scenes. D1 final Vote Tally -- the only outlier Votes from the two main wagons (Palmar and rayn) were me and Tubesock (afk) and Koshi. Nothing real to be gained from this information, as the two main wagons were 99% likely to just give Mafia free hands to Vote however the hell they want. Holyflare -- has called people out on the right stuff. Been able to follow his posts from a game-solving perspective. Don't feel like there's real evidence to suggest tinfoiling -- as Mafia the last minute consideration and re-consideration of the D2-Vote was simply unnecessary. In a situation where, for instance, I myself could've been last-hour wagoned with no one looking too bad for it. Tubesock -- I still find the filter suspicious. #240, which is basically the start of his playing, is "I've decided to sheep HF this game. I want to make a remark about Grack's EoD1 but I have TMI so I point out that what he did isn't OBJECTIVELY Scummy, so I won't pursue what should be a subjectively interesting possibility [for me] of finding Mafia. I end the post mentioning one of my Scumbuddies in an off-handed joke." Later, towards the End of D2 (posts #270 and #401), this has changed to "to all you who have played with Grack more, you should also know that Grack being self-aware of his D1-Vote this way should ring some alarm bells". This doesn't actually match with #240. In that post Grack was supposed to be suspicious ONLY if rayn was Mafia as well. The progression of the iamp-suspicion ("implicated by the Night Kill") is lazy in a non-Town way. Especially since it's immediately followed up by "oh yeah I could Vote you too [Mocsta] based on this, but I kind of forgot even though you're one of the few people I separately mentioned earlier". Also a lot of soft-defending of kitaman. Overall, there's the same kind of "detached" tone that caught my eye with kitaman's filter as well. A tone that doesn't have the writer's heart in trying to actually solve the game, instead just "dancing around" the things happening in the Thread. Need some food now so will continue vomiting out my thoughts in an hour or so. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
Mocsta should 99% of the time be Town after Mafia!kitaman -flip. During D1 it seemed like kita was trying to sound reasonable about a "low-hanging fruit" when briefly mentioning Rels. Nothing else to go by there. There's a lot of interactions with Grack. Not as clear as the ones with Mocsta or rayn but much better than the ones with Koshi. Holyflare gets surprisingly little attention from kita? Makes a part of me want to tinfoil. All in all there's too many variables wrt end-of-D2 to feel confident about what kitaman thought about the Wagon-situation during the last few hours. Other than he tried his damnedest to survive  Koshi -- said I don't see LITERALLY anything Town-like in his filter, still don't. Would want to Lynch. #389 by itself would be reason enough! The "Master Rayn -spiel" isn't convincing as it seems like Koshi's trying to retroactively paint D2 in the light that he "saw the light" wrt kita thanks to rayn. But looking at the filter there's nothing that couldn't equally as well just be a Scummioso losing momentum in the Thread, and meekly trying to adapt his commentary wrt kitaman. There's no attempts to "solve" kita, no actual attempts to directly confront him, after the "dawn of realization". | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
The lazy solution to the game is never the correct one. Why am I not in your pool, Tube? | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
Going to go Vote Tubesock in the Vote-thread now. Here's the case: On June 12 2018 05:03 Tubesock wrote: This is the post I paraphrased earlier thusly: "I've decided to sheep HF this game. I want to make a remark about Grack's EoD1 but I have TMI so I point out that what he did isn't OBJECTIVELY Scummy, so I won't pursue what should be a subjectively interesting possibility [for me] of finding Mafia. I end the post mentioning one of my Scumbuddies in an off-handed joke."I liked most all of HF stuff. I think Mocsta was the one berating and misconstruing. I haven’t liked any of Mocsta’s posts. I’m also not really a fan of Gracks eod performance. But it’s only scummy if Rayn is mafia. I’m leaning more towards Rayn being town. Everyone is pretty null. Although Kita made me laugh with two of his posts. And I don’t like to kill people who make me laugh. The next moment you elaborate on Grack, you change your mind about what formed the basis of your earlier read? On June 12 2018 11:30 Tubesock wrote: For anyone who’s played more with Grack: I think of Grack as a player who normally doesn’t really care what the rest of the players think about him. I’ve been in and seen him in games go completely against the tide and not care at all if people scum read him. Fearless. I think him worrying about how his vote would look right after a “It’s SHENANNY time!” Post is very strange. Am I wrong? (Not to mention why he wouldn’t just kill rayn because it seemed he wanted him dead more so than Palmar) This post also looks pretty bad. There's the soft-defending of kitaman, for one thing. But there's also the fact that you have "decided" to suspect iamperfection, while Mocsta's the person you've paid more attention to. Not just by your own direct admission, but also because you say you've liked HF's content, and you went out of your separate way to mention Mocsta in your first catch-up and reads -post. On June 12 2018 09:04 Tubesock wrote: I could vote you also. NK kinda implicates you as well since Superbia was suspicious but then kinda not. But he was pretty flaky on his read so he could probably be a threat to you as well. Why is iamperfection town to you? Because he is bored and not interested in the game? You don’t think a mafia wouldn’t say that to keep lurking? Kitaman is on the funny side of town, so as I said earlier I won’t vote him. Although if Kita does flip mafia then I’ll believe you’re Town so there’s that. When it comes to your iamperfection-suspicion, you remain passive aggressive. You don't pursue it, you don't ask questions. Instead you just keep pointing out that it's a thing and it should be a thing for the rest of us as well -- but your Vote just kind of ends up remaining there until the very end of the Phase. Even though a LOT happened in the mean time. And then you weren't around to help save kitaman EoD2. And your posts since the flip have been one-liners. And the soft-defending of kitaman I mentioned earlier also happened in all of your other comments regarding him. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
So. Probably my Vote won't make a difference. But if anyone would be able to give a little helpful TL;DR as I try to go through today, I'd appreciate it. What I saw from Koshi yesterday [early D2] seemed a lot better. Tube also was a bit better but not to the same extent. This leaves me feeling quite confused, and it's probably not just because of the sickness. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
I still need to wrap my head around Mocsta, I can see the points and am not able to argue against them but I have this impression it's Mocsta's eccentricity (no offense meant but I can't find a better word here) that muddies things over. But I don't ACTUALLY know his meta so I could just be giving some benefit of doubt when it's not earned. The same goes for Rels, he could be displaying TMI or he could just be even more eager than "master Rayn" -koshi to sheep EVERYTHING he sees rayn say and the feeling I've got is it's the latter. Something about the presence I've seen from Grack makes me worried. iamp's "reads" have seemed suuper lazy. Kelsier being on the HF-wagon seems mighty, mighty weird. Haven't seen the post yet where he actually Votes. Bah, maybe I just misread kitaman's interactions with Mocsta and have simply been wrong. Anyways, will by the EoD change my Vote to something that saves HF. That wagon is just a really, really bad idea. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
On June 17 2018 07:48 Grackaroni wrote: That depends if Mocsta is just really, REALLY eccentric as a player, or if him not making any sense in his progressions (and even trying to take credit for stuff he actually never said or did) is an actual Scumtell.Slender who is your top lynch right now? Could be Mocsta if it's the latter. Asking my fever-ridden gut rn I'd actually say you, Grack, but I don't have any concrete case against you. Just the feelz after the skim I tried to do just now. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
But oh well that's not relevant during that last 5 minutes. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
On June 17 2018 08:13 Rels wrote: Yes. And joining the iamp-wagon would've been really, really easy. As Mafia I wouldn't need to even start "suspecting" kitaman in the first place -- his posting style is analytical and convincing enough that no one would think worse of me for not following up on the earlier mention of kitaman.the idea behind this argument being that kita being alive is more valuable than iamp for the scumteam? Not that I'd care too much about being Mislynched at this point if we can just narrow down the pool to an auto-win.  | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
What I'm personally still undecided on is whether it's simply Mocsta's personality coming through. When I joined the game, Mocsta was initially one of the people who most strongly troubled me (in the sense that I found him suspicious). Then I noticed I had mostly misunderstood what he had tried to say. Like, atleast for me his posts in GENERAL are really hard to read and understand, and it seems to me the lack of coherency is related to general playing style first and foremost. But now that we have the second flip solving Mocsta 100% shouldn't be a problem. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
So if we take Rels' appearance in the Thread just now as confirmation of him being Town. ....That leaves us with exactly a pool of three: me, Holyflare and Mocsta. I know that I'm Town but you guys don't so for the sake of being "objective" for a moment: HF was a part of iamperfection-wagon for a long time. This makes him very unlikely to be Mafia, though it was unlikely before already. So unless something drastic comes up, the pool (for you guys) is exactly me/Mocsta. I feel like I'm quite okay with this. Oh wait, fuba could be fakeclaiming. BUT. If fuba lives the Night, he will come back with a report on either myself or Mocsta. Game solved? Also, who did you track last Night, fuba? You never actually told us, did you? | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
Well the pool still seems fairly okay I guess. | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
I'll take that exchange as an outright Scumclaim. ...Never mind, I can also take it as a LITERAL Scumclaim | ||
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TheSlenderMan
Finland70 Posts
Not sure what kita meant with the smurf-comment, maybe he mistook me for someone else? | ||
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