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On March 24 2018 08:42 Mocsta wrote:
#2291
Thinking a player under scrutiny is town of course is not tmi
But you at no point assist or persuade others to your conclusion.
OF COURSE I DID. What else could have been the point of me breaking down the reason why his post was Town-indicative, instead of Scum-indicative (as HF and Tictock were trying to say) or NAI (as Palmar was trying to say)? I gave a breakdown of that reasoning TO ASSIST OR PERSUADE OTHERS TO MY CONCLUSION.
On March 24 2018 08:42 Mocsta wrote:
Instead you are content to nitpick their logic.
Logic you inherently know is false.
That is the tmi part of being mafia.
Nitpicking their logic is EXACTLY how I can ASSIST OR PERSUADE OTHERS TO MY CONCLUSION.
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On March 24 2018 09:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
"Same alignment" is also bullshit, always, based on two people arguing.
Well, looks like both of the people you're addressing disagree with you.
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On March 24 2018 09:44 Tictock wrote:
Similar question to you as I posed to Moosy.
You guys were scum together last game, what is your read of him this game.
I am not interested in lynching him in this Phase.
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On March 24 2018 10:04 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 08:15 n00bKing wrote:On March 24 2018 01:03 Tictock wrote:On March 23 2018 18:36 n00bKing wrote:On March 23 2018 08:11 Tictock wrote:
Just checking flips before I finish reading (note I still have not read pgs 40-70 or w/e)
Guess I can let that HF stuff go.
Exo seems like the weirdest kill to me, unless he was vigged?
Assuming for a moment that that was all mafia KP then I think 5 mafia is a safe bet (6 just seems like too much for 20 players).
Noting for myself to look into who Vivax was scum reading. This feels astoundingly contrived. Why would someone post about the flips while admitting they aren't caught up enough on the thread to know anything about what they mean? Kus I knew what time it was, and it saved me from fruitlessly responding to several of HF’s posts. There wouldn't be any risk of fruitlessly responding to a dead HF, if you just didn't post until you'd read. And being saved from fruitlessly responding to a dead HF didn't save you from fruitlessly making posts about the flips while having no context. eg "Exo seems like the weirdest kill to me, unless he was vigged?" If you just read before you posted, you would have seen that mocsta had said he was vig-killing Exo. So, why would a TOWN player feel any need to post reactions to the flips, if he hadn't read the rest of the thread yet, and had no context to work with? I see absolutely no reason for a town player to do this. However, it is comparatively easier for me to pick out the scum motivation for trying to sound like you've not read the thread when you actually have. Lmao You think I’m scum pretending that I haven’t read the game?
Do you have an alternative explanation?
Like I said, if you were scum, I am able to figure out a reason why your post exists. If you're town, I don't know why your post exists. Why does your post exist?
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On March 24 2018 10:53 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 10:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 24 2018 10:30 Tictock wrote:On March 24 2018 09:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 24 2018 09:44 Tictock wrote:On March 24 2018 08:05 n00bKing wrote:On March 23 2018 23:19 Mocsta wrote:
I dont like saying this
But conv rage quit feels controlled i.e. fake More fake or less fake than Slam's, in your opinion? More fake or less fake than rayn's, in your opinion? Yay a non WoT to quote. Similar question to you as I posed to Moosy. You guys were scum together last game, what is your read of him this game. And if you try to give me some shit kus I didn’t repaond to something you asked me you will have to ask it again. I only skim some of your posts. What do you think of the above post by noobking? Why do you quote a post you actually say nothing about? Idk why but I felt like I needed to quote one of his posts to ask the question as seeing him posting made me want to ask. The post itself is completely useless as it can’t possibly go anywhere. So you don't feel like he is misrepresenting the situation at all? Like Conversion who modkilled himself and me and whoever else he was talking aabout all the same? Considering the initial quote from Mocsta was prior to the modkill I was kinda assuming noob didn't know about that. Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 10:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I dont either know why would nayone ever make that post as town. You talking about my reading the flips post? Kus I explained exactly why. How could a town resist getting that kind of info about the game even if they are still catching up? If nothing else I guess you have to flip me to find the town who would do that. Makes no sense to me why I would continue reading when I could open a new tab, click the last pg in the game and see the daypost.
Yikes. This response is really, really bad. No one said they don't know why you would go look at the flips. They said they don't know why you would make your super-contrived sounding POST about them, instead of waiting to post until after you had read the thread and would actually have any context to use in what you say. Under no circumstances should I be needing to explain this to you. You look as though you are failing to understand, on purpose.
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On March 24 2018 11:53 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 08:54 n00bKing wrote:On March 24 2018 08:39 Mocsta wrote:On March 24 2018 08:05 n00bKing wrote:On March 23 2018 23:19 Mocsta wrote:
I dont like saying this
But conv rage quit feels controlled i.e. fake More fake or less fake than Slam's, in your opinion? More fake or less fake than rayn's, in your opinion? Who cares Mafia might quit irl to team mates But i cant see mafia ever rage quitting Instead its a concede or stop posting Rage quit is how ya stop posting. You haven't seen mafia rage quit before??? I've seen mafia employ this tactic more than once in the same GAME, before. Of course, it's a fake rage quit, so they come back. Know anyone who said they were bailing on this game or "weren't going to play Day 2" but then came back? On March 24 2018 08:39 Mocsta wrote:
Slam and ryan arent lynch candidates today lol, and why is that? Yes, yes I see how it looks like Blazinghand going to dinner. But things do happen in IRL. I’m surprised someone like you sees that as alignment indicative. Plus, you can look at why someone quits. How does my quit benefit me as a member of the mafia? Since there is no benefit whatsoever (it certainly didn’t help my goals- I simply proved my unreliability) it is NAI.
The benefit is that you give yourself cover for not taking positions, not voting, and not even posting. And as I said before, it sets the stage for you to continue to be allowed to get away with not doing much, for fear that if we pressure you, you will take your ball and go home, and we will potentially lose whatever value you could have contributed, if we were simply "nicer."
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On March 24 2018 12:09 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 12:07 Alakaslam wrote:On March 24 2018 12:03 Tictock wrote:
I'm pretty null of Dis and Moosy right now.
So this is my current scum pool.
KelsierSC
ykl
n00bking
Fecalfeast
Though tbf I need to re-read KSC, same as a few people have mentioned I just haven't seen anything from him and legit forgot he was in the game for a bit.
I'm still super on board a NK lynch. Why YKL? He is pretty new, have you factored that in? I saw him as scummy earlier. I do not remember why. But I retracted it when I filtered him. It's because he's new that he's just as likely to flip scum as he is town to be honest. I think he's scum
Why do you think he's scum?
And while we're at it, I'll bump this:
On March 23 2018 18:34 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2018 08:10 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Either Mocsta is vig and he gave a bad shot and rsoultin/darthfoley are mafia or Mocsta is mafia and rsoultin/darthfoley are town Explain this inverse relationship.
and this:
On March 23 2018 18:40 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2018 08:19 MoosyDoosy wrote:
If Mocsta is vig then Koshi is probably Mafia. Why?
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On March 24 2018 16:28 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2018 08:11 Tictock wrote:
Just checking flips before I finish reading (note I still have not read pgs 40-70 or w/e)
Guess I can let that HF stuff go.
Exo seems like the weirdest kill to me, unless he was vigged?
Assuming for a moment that that was all mafia KP then I think 5 mafia is a safe bet (6 just seems like too much for 20 players).
Noting for myself to look into who Vivax was scum reading. Just for clarification, this is the post that people say they don't understand how it can come from town?
Correct. But his recent defense of the post has been significantly worse than the post originally was, imo.
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On March 24 2018 16:40 Alakaslam wrote:
I’m not going to be an unwarranted ass, and I apologize for the above.
Cool. If you're Town, and something I said made you feel disrespected in some way, I apologize as well.
Who you wanna lynch?
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On March 24 2018 16:40 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 16:28 rsoultin wrote:On March 23 2018 08:11 Tictock wrote:
Just checking flips before I finish reading (note I still have not read pgs 40-70 or w/e)
Guess I can let that HF stuff go.
Exo seems like the weirdest kill to me, unless he was vigged?
Assuming for a moment that that was all mafia KP then I think 5 mafia is a safe bet (6 just seems like too much for 20 players).
Noting for myself to look into who Vivax was scum reading. Just for clarification, this is the post that people say they don't understand how it can come from town? I mean, I know it's the one rayn is talking about. I'm just making sure that it's also the one you're talking about nk?
Yes.
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On March 24 2018 16:49 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 16:42 n00bKing wrote:On March 24 2018 16:40 rsoultin wrote:On March 24 2018 16:28 rsoultin wrote:On March 23 2018 08:11 Tictock wrote:
Just checking flips before I finish reading (note I still have not read pgs 40-70 or w/e)
Guess I can let that HF stuff go.
Exo seems like the weirdest kill to me, unless he was vigged?
Assuming for a moment that that was all mafia KP then I think 5 mafia is a safe bet (6 just seems like too much for 20 players).
Noting for myself to look into who Vivax was scum reading. Just for clarification, this is the post that people say they don't understand how it can come from town? I mean, I know it's the one rayn is talking about. I'm just making sure that it's also the one you're talking about nk? Yes. Tt's explanation for it lines up for me? I'm terms of teaching differently to the hf/viva kills. I guess it's a bit purposeless in the sense that he's just speculating about kp and saying he needs to check things, I'm just not sure what's supposed to be so scummy about it?
...as rayn and I have said, there is no reason for a town player to make that post. As I've said, I can, however, imagine a reason for a scum player to make that post.
And again, his defense of the post has been even worse than the post was. Check my "Yikes" post.
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On March 24 2018 17:21 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 16:39 Alakaslam wrote:
Dammit.
I recognize the only reason I am so peeved by your arrogance is because of the extent of my own.
But man you can’t get anywhere in this game humbly. I recognize that now.
But there comes that point where you are being blinded by it, that’s just more than I like to see, idk. -pokes- you seem to have a pretty good handle on noob. I'm not clear on your posts...do you think he's scum this game? It seems like maybe you don't. You were talking about how they played on the other site and scum basically playing chicken shit. What bugs me most about noob is his focus on afkers to the exclusion of everything but his counterwagon this phase. Am I wrong to be bugged by that? I.e. is that just how he's been taught to scumhunt on the other site because scum there are chicken shit?
I have 2 quick comments on this, but I'll let him answer first. Remind me, if needed.
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Some meta analysis...
Alakaslam - I went and looked at games where he was lynched as mafia and games where he was mislynched as town, to see if the berserker rage quit from this game appeared to be alignment-indicative or not. Being mislynched does not normally seem to rile him up, not even in the early game. And remember, these aren't just games where ONE person is voting against him, as rsoul was in this game, or ONE person is giving him a hard time about something. These are the games where he was actually mislynched. And still that fury doesn't surface. In games where he is lynched as scum, that fury still does not *normally* surface. He seems a little more prone to anger when lynched as scum, but there certainly are games where it just...doesn't happen. He's claiming "real life factors" and that could certainly alter someone's personality enough to explain the blowup. And if those factors were in play by the time the game began, it could also alter someone's personality enough to explain why he did not "feel" the same to rsoul and myself, as his last game (as stress hormones can affect brain physiology).
Result: Taking his ball and going home was a scum indicator. But a relatively mild one.
Coagulation - If darthfoley enjoyed my use of all caps, he would love Coagulation. He can sometimes go several posts in a row without there being any words that are *not* in all caps. Coag can be an angry dude himself. He can call you a motherfucker as either alignment, but if he gives you the finger and calls you a faggot...he's probably town. Coag's town games sometimes involve him following a "theme" throughout the game. eg, many of his posts include a music video link. Or many of his posts include drawings with dragons in them. In the scum games I looked at, this seemed to be absent. He just posted...like he has in this game. While Town, Coag indeed *does* usually play, to some extent. Around the activity level of a FecalFeast, or maybe a little higher. He does not seem to have as much interest in playing his scum games. Post count/filter length runs more than TWICE as high when he is Town. Whereas I saw a scum game where he wasn't eliminated until the 3rd cycle, but still was on his first page of filter.
Result: We are VERY conclusively seeing Coag's scum game, as opposed to his town game, for more than one reason. And the *solitary* counterpoint would be his use of the Town Seal. However, his use of the Town Seal appears to be significant a/f. I would not advocate for Coag's lynch on Day 2, and might never advocate for his lynch unless or until Palmar has flipped scum (as Palmar, who has told us he can't be bothered to read more than 20-30% of the thread, and has also told us that he does NOT meta people, somehow mustered the energy to go dig up details on Coag's Town Seal)
Palmar - Confidence and attitude are through the roof in his scum games, as compared with his town games, where he is more likely to waffle on his reads, or outright sheep other votes. A very "take charge" tone in his scum games, fitting well with telling everyone that I quite simply WOULD be the lynch today, even though there were zero votes on me at the time (and had not been any votes cast against me that had since been removed, either).
Result: Had no idea what it meant when Holyflare said that Palmar appeared to be "playing his mafia meta" so far. I may understand what he meant, now.
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Other things I haven't cared for, from Palmar...
This is him, at the end of one of his Town games:
On May 02 2016 19:31 Palmar wrote:
If a person claims blue to save himself ALWAYS, ALWAYS lynch him. It is always the right play.
Comparatively less sure of what to do, in this game, when disformation claimed a blue role under duress:
On March 22 2018 06:04 Palmar wrote:
I hate day 1 claimers.
Because not every host is a bastard host like I am it's like 90% chance that disfo is actually just veteran. The problem is that it's a completely pointless claim. It ONLY helps mafia for him to make that claim, because they can avoid shooting him forever. It's the most selfish claim you can make as town.
Like the technically correct play here is to lynch disfo for being shit and dealing with it. Because he made the technically wrong play to claim in the first place.
idk
Given that Palmar's OWN vote was on disformation when he makes the claim (and given that he says this particular claim would be especially bad/selfish if it came from town *instead* of mafia), you might think he would be especially adamant about punching through the claim and lynching him anyway. Was obviously not the case here. Guessing at the mafia motivation for the change of heart might be sketchy. I don't know if there's something deeper than just "you don't want to be the guy who strongarms everyone into lynching a player you know would flip blue." And THIS role is one that is almost completely harmless for scum to go ahead and leave alive. Don't need to break your back getting a revealed Veteran lynched, when it can no longer hurt you at Night (and especially if the other leading wagons are town).
Next, he very much disliked this post:
On March 22 2018 05:51 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 19:48 Palmar wrote:
I'm going with a rather strict "vote on a case" policy this game Show nested quote +On March 22 2018 05:43 Palmar wrote:
Throwing down a vote on disfo just so I get a vote out there. I don't remember why I thought he could be mafia but I don't really care. *thumbs up*
When mocsta abandons his "post count" thing, he knows people are going to notice the change in his play, but he goes ahead and makes the change anyway. I think this is slighty town-indicative. As mafia, he might feel more pressure to stick to doing what he said he would do, SINCE he knows people will notice it when he stops. As town, he might be more prone to just say "this is a pain in my ass, screw it." The contradiction I noted from Palmar, however, is NOT one people would notice as readily. No longer town indicative, in my opinion. Maybe just null, depending on how he reacts. I thought Town might just laugh it off as a joke. "Haha, you got me there!" and move on. Instead he took it pretty personally, which made me feel like he was caught flat-footed, not expecting to have it pointed out.
In Post #1683, I noted his hypocrisy, with regard to how I shouldn't say anything about what his post *might* mean, without knowing him and his meta, while simultaneously acting like he knows exactly what my post *does* mean...without him knowing me or my meta. He might have felt compelled to answer for this, and did so within minutes. But seemed to have no better defense than: "My rules are for other people, not myself."
Wouldn't mind considering a Palmar lynch. But Tictock and ykl still look like reasonable targets to me as well.
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On March 24 2018 16:58 rsoultin wrote:
I'm interested in what the flips told you. How that potentially changed your view of the game.
Yep, processing. Will come back to this.
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On March 24 2018 18:13 n00bKing wrote:Other things I haven't cared for, from Palmar... This is him, at the end of one of his Town games: Show nested quote +On May 02 2016 19:31 Palmar wrote:
If a person claims blue to save himself ALWAYS, ALWAYS lynch him. It is always the right play. Comparatively less sure of what to do, in this game, when disformation claimed a blue role under duress: Show nested quote +On March 22 2018 06:04 Palmar wrote:
I hate day 1 claimers.
Because not every host is a bastard host like I am it's like 90% chance that disfo is actually just veteran. The problem is that it's a completely pointless claim. It ONLY helps mafia for him to make that claim, because they can avoid shooting him forever. It's the most selfish claim you can make as town.
Like the technically correct play here is to lynch disfo for being shit and dealing with it. Because he made the technically wrong play to claim in the first place.
idk
Given that Palmar's OWN vote was on disformation when he makes the claim (and given that he says this particular claim would be especially bad/selfish if it came from town *instead* of mafia), you might think he would be especially adamant about punching through the claim and lynching him anyway. Was obviously not the case here. Guessing at the mafia motivation for the change of heart might be sketchy. I don't know if there's something deeper than just "you don't want to be the guy who strongarms everyone into lynching a player you know would flip blue." And THIS role is one that is almost completely harmless for scum to go ahead and leave alive. Don't need to break your back getting a revealed Veteran lynched, when it can no longer hurt you at Night (and especially if the other leading wagons are town).
Yeah, the more I consider this, the more the scum thought process crystallizes. The revealed Vet is a complete non-threat, so instead of pushing hard to lynch the blue claim (as he normally would) he can just half-ass the argument (as shown above in the second quote), and leave his vote there (for the sake of at least a *little* bit of consistency with the position he espoused in the first quote, should he get called out on this) but the half-assed argument won't actually move anyone to lynch the blue claim (as it didn't) and so you let someone else get pushed into the Noose instead, hope that maybe another blue role gets revealed, and all without any real risk that one of the mafia ends up in the Noose, because the other leading wagons from the day (like myself, Rels, mocsta, Conversion) had all been Town.
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On March 24 2018 20:38 Mocsta wrote:
Conversion is town???
Interesting
Yeah, probably. Instead of "computer" I use "TMI" and TMI says Town. I townleaned him enough to not be one of the 6 or 7 people that formed his D1 wagon, even though I had been his initial lynch target.
Just like my TMI said Exo was Town.
And IF you're really a Town Vigilante? Then my TMI said that too, when you listed the reasons I ought to come after you and said "Vote me" and I said "Nah" and Holyflare was like "lynch mocsta" and I was like "Nah" because I wasn't really scumreading either of you.
TMI has only let me down on Vivax so far. I was scumleaning on him a bit.
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On March 24 2018 20:56 disformation wrote:
@not voting: usually you get (or can get) modkilled for not voting twice in a row, so in my mind scum at least wants to put down a random vote, since risking the danger of actually getting modkilled later in the game would be super shit for/towards their teammates. yeah it is not 100% especially with more erratic players (think moosy forgot to submit nightactions once e.g.). but imo it is more usually likely to come from super pissed off town.
you seem to have made different experiences, so I guess I can understand your pov on this
Yeah, different experiences I guess. The idea that a scum player can't miss a vote on purpose, because he might miss a vote by accident later (meaning he missed an entire 48 hour day phase) is not really a consideration in my world.
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On March 24 2018 21:53 disformation wrote:
@nk:
why do you say ticktock would be an excellent lynch, besides the nk post thingie?
sry if I should have missed, feel free to quote the right post in that case
Don't really have time to address this, and the other things I'm about to. Ask me about it again later, if a Tictock lynch looks or feels more achievable than whatever one I seem to be wanting at the time.
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On March 24 2018 22:00 Palmar wrote:
Why didn't you quote my entire post
To keep it shorter. I trim quotes down all the time (and not just other peoples' but I trim down my own quotes as well) so that people only need to read the relevant part, and can then get to the point I'm making.
Palmar wrote:
Notice how I'm apologizing for doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing this game.
Weird how you didn't learn then. Can't say that I feel like the additional explanation you've offered about that incident really hurts the point I was making any.
Not gonna say you're a stone lock to flip red here. But I'm certainly encouraged by the fact that your defense doesn't have me feeling like I need to second-guess the read.
##Unvote
##Vote: Palmar
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EPT
