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On March 21 2018 11:18 Mocsta wrote:
tictock #676
its not really something important. No one accused me of not being town.
moose #673
im confused (in a pleasant way i suppose).
I thought you were saying prior that slam/n00b are town (or you will at least mirror their vote).
what you wrote indicates suspicion against both players (in particular compared to last game).
If you couldn't already tell that by "sheeping us" he meant sheeping votes against us, and not sheeping our cases against other players, then you CERTAINLY should have been able to tell that from the discussion that followed.
When you put a restriction on how many posts you could make, did you also put a restriction on how many posts you would READ?
Also, using Post #'s instead of simply quoting the post is super-annoying. If you're Town, could you stop doing that? There's a reason everyone does it the other way.
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On March 21 2018 11:45 Mocsta wrote:
please illuminate for me what pressure ykl and disfo received that was prompted by you
lol, nearly ALL of the pressure ykl received was prompted by me. It is not my fault that he was protected by two other players, and then LEFT. The game structure only allows for me to generate so much pressure on another player, you know? I've done what I can, and it's a lot more than the many players who are neither driving discussion nor commenting on discussion nor even VOTING.
On March 21 2018 11:45 Mocsta wrote:
ps. 5 players of 20 18 are now voting you.
europe is going to wake up soon, so expect that # to increase.
Oh, I do NOT expect that number to increase. Not if those players are competent. I am always a terrible early lynch candidate, which is why I've only been lynched Day 1 ONE time. Ever. And no, I wasn't scum. And no, the town did not manage to win without me.
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On March 21 2018 11:58 Mocsta wrote:Cool story bruh, From 6 weeks ago. Show nested quote +On February 02 2018 01:40 Skynx wrote:Vendée Globe 16' Mafia [Flips] Day1: mderg, as Mafia FramerNight1: Trfel, as VTDay2: rsoultin, as Mafia GoonNight2: Mocsta, as VTDay3: Damdred, as Mafia Roleblocker
I hope you don't think that's supposed to be contrary evidence? I can confidently expect that mderg was a fuckup in that game.
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On March 21 2018 12:19 Mocsta wrote:Help me out of that comfort zone by working together! Pick your poison please: Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 07:46 Mocsta wrote:
I still think Day1 comes down to resolutions on the big topics:
Slam
Moosy
Ex0/KSC,
Koshi/Disfo/n00bking,
DF
I pick almost all of them, then.
#1 - Slam
After making this post:
On March 21 2018 08:38 n00bKing wrote:
Step 1) I notice that Alakaslam doesn't feel quite the same to me as in the previous game. It seems like his posts are an attempt to artificially recreate his play from the previous game, instead of an authentic repeat of his play from the previous game.
Step 2) rsoul then makes almost the exact same observation.
Step 3) I ask rsoul if she can elaborate on the difference between his play in the two games, so that I can tell if there's any sort of real substantiation that I can investigate, or if she's stuck in the same boat I am (with nothing better to explain the difference than "feelz.") Unfortunately it sounded like she's stuck in the same boat I am.
I then asked this of rsoul:
On March 21 2018 08:44 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 04:03 rsoultin wrote:
Problem is, I don't really expect people to get my Slam read. I just think that it's probably right.
Okay...soo....if people aren't going to get your slam read, then what keeps your vote on him from being wasted? Let's say we did get additional votes on Alakaslam. Is his reaction to the added pressure likely to help you further a read on him? Or give you anything you CAN use to convince others? Or would he just post more youtube videos, regardless of alignment, and everyone shrugs and says they can't get a read on him because he's not doing anything?
Hers is the opinion on that question that I am the most interested in, partly because she's the player voting against him, but also because I think it's fair to say that she has posed herself as something of an "Alakaslam whisperer" over the past two games.
Nevertheless, I would gladly hear opinions on that from anyone. Can you expect alignment-indicative reactions when he is pressured, or do you simply have to make a decision of "lynch him or not" because all you're ever going to get is more youtube videos?
#2 - Moosy
His game-opening tactic is one I've seen him use as Town before (so I let him go ahead and do it) but as I've said, I think it hasn't yielded much of anything he can use, this time.
You can put me on the "save Moosy for later" train. Partly because he's committed at least six rules violations so far, and if he keeps doing it, he'll just get himself mod-killed. And also because I seriously doubt his ability to keep me in uncertainty about his alignment for the long-term. I disagree that he's a good N1 vig target, because he will usually respond to posts, regardless of alignment. You may sometimes get trolling, obstinance, or uncooperativeness, but you'll get answers to your questions. He'll (eventually) take positions, make and move votes, explain his motivations, etc. And when you start seeing flips, you can gain a lot of context on which team he's playing for. Can't say any of that about someone like Fecalfeast or Alakaslam (so far).
#3 - Exo vs Kelsier
I think this was a big fat nothing. While it was going on, I just kept waiting for Kelsier to realize it was mostly just a misunderstanding, and move on to something else. This doesn't guarantee it was "T vs T" but I think that's likely. Nothing in the posts from either player has really made me uneasy. Hopefully whenever raynpelikoneet returns, we'll get some thoughts on things that have happened SINCE that exchange, as it was the focus of a lot of his filter.
#4 - Darthfoley
Obviously glad to be seeing less Chester Campbell, as the game goes on. Continue to think invoking the character is on the townier side of null. The HARDCORE waffling on Exo looks like a reasonable thought progression to me, and I like that it ends up in the place I feel like it ought to. So, no interest in making DF a lynch target at this time.
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On March 21 2018 12:41 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 12:14 n00bKing wrote:On March 21 2018 11:58 Mocsta wrote:Cool story bruh, From 6 weeks ago. On February 02 2018 01:40 Skynx wrote:Vendée Globe 16' Mafia [Flips] Day1: mderg, as Mafia FramerNight1: Trfel, as VTDay2: rsoultin, as Mafia GoonNight2: Mocsta, as VTDay3: Damdred, as Mafia Roleblocker I hope you don't think that's supposed to be contrary evidence? I can confidently expect that mderg was a fuckup in that game. LoL. Literally every mafia caught ever fucked up in some way because they were lynched or vigi shot. What a meaningless semantics to prove your e-peen.
I don't think I can bring myself to believe that you genuinely can't tell the difference between what I said, and "literally every mafia caught ever fucked up in some way." A scum player who gets lynched on D1 probably fucked up big, and their lynch is probably on them, and not creditable to super-awesome town play. A scum lynch on D1 is already statistically improbable, and then made all the more unlikely by the fact that (unlike most town players) they will have teammates who know they are on the team, and will actively work to keep them out of the Noose. A red flip on D1 should never be the expectation, and no one should be overly disappointed when it doesn't come. Therefore, when Mocsta says that even if Moosy is scum, there should be enough D1 content here to still lynch someone ELSE successfully too, that is really, really weird. But I could envision the mafia trying to lull the town into a false sense of security that "everything is going cool...you don't need to ask more questions....you don't need to do more thinking....we've got all this content...things are great...everyone just sit back and relax." The motivation for a TOWN player to say it? I dunno man, you tell me. I don't see it.
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On March 21 2018 13:07 Mocsta wrote:
rsoultin is capable of responding herself; I just have one tidbit to add.
I get the yawn comment, but I think its being looked at in isolation to the 3rd paragraph which discusses NK first post.
Like, I feel that read is somewhat an association read with NK flipping scum
(i.e. rsoultin hesistant to throw shade on NK because hes scum-buddy... cos i cant see why a scum!rsoultin would hesitate to do it to a town!NK)
Scum players always have reason to hesitate to throw shade on Town players.
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On March 21 2018 13:12 Mocsta wrote:
#711 n00bking
Its awesome you approached all topics; however, I find this to be a superficial summary.
Maybe thats poor interpretation by me, but i started reading with excitement, and ended reading with disappointment.
It's Day 1. Go find me the post where someone said something super exciting and compelling. That's not how this works.
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On March 21 2018 13:18 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 13:14 n00bKing wrote:On March 21 2018 12:41 darthfoley wrote:On March 21 2018 12:14 n00bKing wrote:On March 21 2018 11:58 Mocsta wrote:Cool story bruh, From 6 weeks ago. On February 02 2018 01:40 Skynx wrote:Vendée Globe 16' Mafia [Flips] Day1: mderg, as Mafia FramerNight1: Trfel, as VTDay2: rsoultin, as Mafia GoonNight2: Mocsta, as VTDay3: Damdred, as Mafia Roleblocker I hope you don't think that's supposed to be contrary evidence? I can confidently expect that mderg was a fuckup in that game. LoL. Literally every mafia caught ever fucked up in some way because they were lynched or vigi shot. What a meaningless semantics to prove your e-peen. I don't think I can bring myself to believe that you genuinely can't tell the difference between what I said, and "literally every mafia caught ever fucked up in some way." A scum player who gets lynched on D1 probably fucked up big, and their lynch is probably on them, and not creditable to super-awesome town play. A scum lynch on D1 is already statistically improbable, and then made all the more unlikely by the fact that (unlike most town players) they will have teammates who know they are on the team, and will actively work to keep them out of the Noose. A red flip on D1 should never be the expectation, and no one should be overly disappointed when it doesn't come. Therefore, when Mocsta says that even if Moosy is scum, there should be enough D1 content here to still lynch someone ELSE successfully too, that is really, really weird. But I could envision the mafia trying to lull the town into a false sense of security that "everything is going cool...you don't need to ask more questions....you don't need to do more thinking....we've got all this content...things are great...everyone just sit back and relax." The motivation for a TOWN player to say it? I dunno man, you tell me. I don't see it. I agree that it is a weird thing to point out and one that I don't like. IMO if you think moosy is mafia, you vote to lynch him. You don't "wait and see" if you truly believe he's mafia tbh.
That's fine. The Moosy-specific part isn't really the one that jumps out to me though. It's the confidence that the D1 lynch would still be successful even if we passed over one bad guy to find another. No, we're probably gonna lynch a town player on D1. The game mechanics assume that we will lynch a town player on D1. So the notion that Day 1 has already given us everything we need to make a correct D1 lynch (and the unspoken implication that the town could afford to take the rest of the Phase off) is what rubs me the wrong way. (It probably doesn't help that I know his vote is on a town player.)
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On March 21 2018 13:30 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 05:25 KelsierSC wrote:On March 21 2018 00:32 Conversion wrote:
I read some filters.
I'll consolidate onto disform, only for the reason I have a nagging memory of someone explaining his scum play and feeling like it fits it. I'd have to meta dive for that, but that's annoying.
I don't think ykl is scum for whatever reason alakabanana slamma jamma man said. and I don't think anyone else being voted is scum. besides disform. Had a few people call out this idea and have to agree with them. We really don't need to consolidate onto dis right now if you have a good read vivax and hf called it out, yeh im not a big fan, not sure what this accomplishes. Then again conversion has come back and qualified the statement. So just have to see what he comes back with. I like rsoultin calling out slam a lot and pushing that vote. pretty good list post. nothing to write home about but still a solid list ---- Dis list post and follow up - I have specific questions which I will ask in a seperate post --- apparently I made df cry, I I will attempt to be nicer. I disagree with what you said on rayn and rsoul. I can't blame you for being confused about my dis vote because I was tilted and shit posting. You do seem to just be parroting sentiment on noobking, have you had original thought? Still have you as scummy but i'm not building a case right now. FF has rsoultin posting a lot? It's way down on what you would expect and vivax called out rsoultin for not posting enough. I'm not liking ff tbh ---- I'd probably have a lynch pool of dis,exo,noob,slam,ff, df and moosy does sicklucker not post d1 anymore? obviously i need to narrow the list down but i'm good with that pool right now. I can't remember why i asked ticktock a question so hold on List post more often scum than not though. Careful calling them good m8
Yeah. I don't think I've ever made a "most trusted to least trusted" list, as Town. Only as scum, and only when I was really motivated to get other players to follow suit. And if I'm Town, I am probably never going to ask you who you've got firmly stuck in your "townpile." I don't need to know who your strongest townreads are, just who your scumreads are. And you don't need to know about my strongest townreads either.
But if I'm scum? Yeah, THEN I want to know who is in your townpile. THEN I want to know who EVERYone has in their townpile. If I'm scum, I'd like to see a list post from everybody. I might even want to see that badly enough to post one myself.
Unfortunately, on THIS site, those types of list posts are a mistake made SO frequently by town players, that you can't really scumread anyone for doing it.
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On March 21 2018 16:35 Mocsta wrote:
I dont think jt means you are town
Its more a comment on vivax logic in my opiniin
Yes. Has nothing to do with how Vivax is playing (or what allegiance he might be) in this particular game. Just "if I'm thinking like Vivax would think, then I'm probably wrong."
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On March 21 2018 15:57 Mocsta wrote:
anyways, sorry slam
i had enough for today, and already 10 pages of filter for ppl to wake up to & i dont want to add anymore.
my vote is sticking with n00bking and i hope yours it too!
Well, there's a problem with you hoping his vote sticks with me. It's not on me, and never has been.
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Mentioned that I wasn't sure how to "unlock" Alakaslam and make him productive. Not sure if I "unlocked" him or "broke" him...but...something's happening, at least.
Regardless of what happens for the rest of the game, signing up was worth it just to see this post:
On March 21 2018 14:09 Alakaslam wrote:
What’s also sucks is I am a terrible communicator. Like I can see that the white truck doesn’t have a brake booster problem, but a master cylinder problem but I’m so inarticulate (and not a mechanic) that I actually convinced our mechanic he was right
So now the truck has a new brake booster and a newer master cylinder :3
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On March 21 2018 16:40 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 16:38 n00bKing wrote:On March 21 2018 16:35 Mocsta wrote:
I dont think jt means you are town
Its more a comment on vivax logic in my opiniin Yes. Has nothing to do with how Vivax is playing (or what allegiance he might be) in this particular game. Just "if I'm thinking like Vivax would think, then I'm probably wrong." You are doing a good job at making me want to lynch you.
Huh? It wasn't even me saying it. I'm just agreeing with Mocsta about what Kelsier meant. I'm facilitating understanding between players, so votes will only be cast for good reasons. (Hint: There aren't good reasons for voting against Kelsier)
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On March 21 2018 14:34 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 11:03 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 21 2018 11:00 Mocsta wrote:
#669
Hi Moosy
I like that post, and while plan is "different". Its certainly not what I would consider scummy.
I think you can refine the concept better by applying a stricter filter when determining "mafia trying to get you."
Of the 6 in your pool; the only TWO who said you were scummy is ExO_ and HF.
Annoying or frustrated does not equate to scum.
As townies, we only have our vote, so I will respect this plans of yours.
However, I would appreciate if you could respect me back and share your (updated) opinion of n00bking. Sure. I'll even throw in an explanation for Alakaslam. Noobking/Slam didn't respond to my bait at the start. The reason why they're there is from tone reads. Slam's tone reads forced to me and completely different from the last game I played with him. A lot of people already picked up on this.Noobking goes from setup to picking at what other people are saying which is exactly what he did when I was scum with him last game. The only way I see him being town is because he hasn't really used excessive OMGUS arguments so far. So I would be fine with sheeping a wagon on him. False. Since I know what actually happened, ##Vote: rsoultinI have realized she knows better. She has shadowed me in games and has played with me in many more.
Eh. Perfectly happy to help you keep an eye on her, but high-activity players are poor D1 lynches. I expect her to post, I expect her to respond to people who make an effort to engage her, and I expect to be able to read her with a lot more confidence as time goes on. As much as I disagreed with her initial set of musings, I can't support a D1 lynch of rsoul.
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On March 21 2018 16:49 rsoultin wrote:
@df My main reason I want to lynch noob is because his posts bore me. The first post I didn't like I already said I'm not sure makes him scum.
First post was actually impossible for me to make as anything but town. Again, if I were scum, I would be hoping that topic never, ever gets raised at all.
On March 21 2018 16:49 rsoultin wrote:
I don't think townreading him for arrogance makes sense though. We saw that last game plenty.
Completely agree. I cannot be townread for arrogance. That aspect of my game never goes away.
On March 21 2018 16:49 rsoultin wrote:
But what bugs me a lot and what makes me still want to keep him on the table is this I agree with her on slam but don't share any of her other reads. And I would have been on the same page as her (other than hf) last game if town. If this is actually town nk here I have no earthly clue how our reads/methods would ever align that much lol >< This nk reads very similar to the nk who couldn't stop harping on how antitown HF was last game. It's like a scummy vs towny behaviour checklist rather than how I get my reads.
Yes, a "scummy vs towny behavior checklist" is the perfect way to describe it. I have solved games before, using a literal (and physical, pen and paper) scummy vs towny behavior checklist. Where I went through each players' posts, identified each one as pro, con, or neutral, then tabulated the results, and...voila. The remaining players with the most "cons" were the remaining scum players.
It doesn't matter to me if our "methods" don't line up, as long as I understand your thinking, and understand the way you've told me that you've used your methods. Your "methods" in the previous game might not have matched the ones I'd have used, but the conclusions (and the rationale used to arrive at them) all made sense, all the time (so long as the conversation had nothing to do with Holyflare). I'm not a person who has any trouble at all with following and understanding another way of thinking about something, even if I may not agree with it. If you're Town in this game, I expect to eventually be able to follow and understand the way you've formed your opinions, even if I may not agree with them. (This has already begun, in fact, just since your return.)
On March 21 2018 16:49 rsoultin wrote:
Also! Right, nk asked. I'm trying to lynch scum and I'm arrogant enough to believe that's possible d1 before night actions.
K...how you gonna get him lynched, by saying that you don't expect other people to see what your read is based off of? I don't feel like you really care whether he is lynched or not (despite you voting against him, AND despite you saying you like to keep him around when he's Town.) Nor do I feel like you really care whether I am lynched or not. Looks a lot like the "anyone who isn't on our roster" attitude scum teams would normally take toward the Day 1 Noose.
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On March 21 2018 16:50 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 16:45 n00bKing wrote:On March 21 2018 16:40 Vivax wrote:On March 21 2018 16:38 n00bKing wrote:On March 21 2018 16:35 Mocsta wrote:
I dont think jt means you are town
Its more a comment on vivax logic in my opiniin Yes. Has nothing to do with how Vivax is playing (or what allegiance he might be) in this particular game. Just "if I'm thinking like Vivax would think, then I'm probably wrong." You are doing a good job at making me want to lynch you. Huh? It wasn't even me saying it. I'm just agreeing with Mocsta about what Kelsier meant. I'm facilitating understanding between players, so votes will only be cast for good reasons. (Hint: There aren't good reasons for voting against Kelsier) No you literally took Kelsiers words and turned them into other words that mean something else entirely all for the sake of finding a perspective where he said that as town.
Seriously do not know what other interpretation of his words could be considered, other than the one I posted. I'll be way way surprised, if he tells us that wasn't what he meant.
On March 21 2018 16:50 Vivax wrote:
I am 99 % sure you are town cause no mafia would be so idiotically suicidal to do that but I might spite lynch you for that regardless, cause all you're doing is hampering me when I just found mafia.
lol, oh god, not another one. You "just found mafia" did you? Stone lock, can't miss red flip right there, huh? Just like HF is gonna take the "free scum?"  Just like Mocsta and his assertion that even if Moosy is scum and we pass him over anyway, there's still enough D1 content to lynch successfully anyway??! If you're town, whichever scum read you are MOST confident in, is PROBABLY incorrect. Since I'm town, whichever scum read I am MOST confident in, is PROBABLY incorrect.
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On March 21 2018 16:54 ykl wrote:how is someone supposed to answer this: Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 17:23 n00bKing wrote:On March 20 2018 13:20 ykl wrote:
I'm also having a hard time seeing where you are voting for makes sense. You apparently scumread both me and disformation but never really provided a good explanation as to why you think Koshi's vote on disformation is a good case at all to the point where you'd follow that vote instead. "Instead?" Like, instead of following some other vote? Which vote was I supposed to follow "instead?" Without immediately devolving into a shitflinging fest that contributes nothing?
Maybe we'll find out, as soon as you answer it?
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On March 21 2018 17:02 rsoultin wrote:
Help me understand how you and I could possibly have been on the same page last game had you been town if this is an example of your town game..
Because we WERE on the same page last game. lol
When playing scum, I am never unaware of what the town me would be thinking and feeling. And I deviate from it only if furthering or protecting the scum agenda has taken precedence over "looking and acting precisely as I would while town" for that moment. You and I consistently held (and stated) the same opinions in that game, on one issue after another. The only subject on which you and town me differed was Holyflare.
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On March 21 2018 17:40 Vivax wrote:
Let me reiterate: Kelsier said that he was probably on the wrong track since he was thinking the same way I did about mocstas post.
This is a literally impossible statement to make without a mindset where I am lock town, cause as mafia I could have other reasons other than being bad for commenting about that post in the way I did.
We can argue this to death but if you don't see it like I do, I can't help you.
And mocsta explained to you that it isn't about that post or even this game. It's just about what he called "Vivax logic" in general. That's how it reads to me as well.
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On March 21 2018 17:40 ykl wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 17:36 n00bKing wrote:On March 21 2018 16:54 ykl wrote:how is someone supposed to answer this: On March 20 2018 17:23 n00bKing wrote:On March 20 2018 13:20 ykl wrote:
I'm also having a hard time seeing where you are voting for makes sense. You apparently scumread both me and disformation but never really provided a good explanation as to why you think Koshi's vote on disformation is a good case at all to the point where you'd follow that vote instead. "Instead?" Like, instead of following some other vote? Which vote was I supposed to follow "instead?" Without immediately devolving into a shitflinging fest that contributes nothing? Maybe we'll find out, as soon as you answer it? Fine, if you want to be that way: Why are you voting for disformation instead of me when you're clearly scumreading both of us? I didn't see what the case on disformation was that led a straight vote. Are you happy now.
That does not answer the question. Which vote was I supposed to follow "instead?" Why is the word "instead" in your post?
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EPT
