EPT[M][N] Medic Mafia
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n00bKing
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
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n00bKing
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 08:03 prplhz wrote: Hey im the cop "Lynch all liars" applies here, right? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 08:38 Damdred wrote: I suppose but what happens if we don't control them d1 and two overlap on a super towny person? Yeah, if you're coordinating a medic kill on any given night, I think all the medics have to use the same target. This not only renders the Mafia medic useless, but it also renders the Mafia roleblocker useless. They basically just have 3 vanilla bad guys. Coordinating things so that 2 medics kill a guy and one tries to prevent the mafia kill not only opens you up to disruption by the roleblocker, but I also don't see a way to get the medics on the same page (about which 2 are killing a guy and which 1 is trying to make a save) without telling the Mafia who they are. So you can't do anything but "all 3 on the same target" unless you execute a mass claim. Having never played under this set of rules (or one like it) I don't know if the mass claim is good or bad. I'll have to read the pre-game discussion again. One thing I DO remember from pre-game discussion is the idea that this ruleset favors us pretty heavily, and that the Mafia will have to play extremely well to win. Is there a "far and away" best Scum player that we can lynch, to make sure that won't happen? :D | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
Hmm, okay. If he were Scum and decided that the mass claim favors the Mafia, would he be bold enough to immediately fake-claim Medic, and try to force the Town into a disadvantageous mass claim? Or would that be "too obvious" of a scum play? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 06 2018 09:15 Tubesock wrote: I am not sure about the mass claiming bit D2 though. I think it would be better for town to have the medics be unknown for a couple cycles before they claim. Well let's not allow ourselves to become distracted by discussion that doesn't need to take place yet. We don't need to decide whether to mass claim on Day 2 until it's Day 2. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 06 2018 09:16 Tubesock wrote: agreed, I think he would claim just as easily as town medic as he would mafia. What are you "agreeing" with? Because what Fecalfeast said and what you said are NOT the same. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 06 2018 11:10 MoosyDoosy wrote: I miss the presence of a rayn-like person plugging me in the butthole and telling me i suck at this game I can start telling you that you suck at this game, if that'll help. You'll have to go somewhere else for the rest of that, though. On March 06 2018 11:08 MoosyDoosy wrote: I'm pretty sure Fecal was exaggerating by his D2 mass claim. Mass claiming is going to happen but I don't see it happening on D2 unless the game is really easy and we nail mafia really early I dunno, the pre-game discussion sounds to me like people are talking about mass claiming early game and not late game. And now I can't ask them to clarify what they meant, because they either aren't in the game or I can no longer trust them to tell me the truth about it. But speaking of the pre-game discussion, now that I've read through it again, it occurs to me that I don't even know for sure what the setup for the game IS. We had this: On February 19 2018 23:28 Calix wrote: I'm leaning towards giving mafia another role since people seem to agree that makes the game easier for mafia. and then this: On February 19 2018 23:45 Calix wrote: Two Roleblockers might be fine then. I'll see what other people think and if nobody has a serious problem with it then I'll change the Mafioso to a PR. and then that was it. So was the setup changed? Am I allowed to ask the Narrator to tell us whether the setup changed? Because if the setup isn't as town-favored as it was initially, that will definitely change my strategy. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 11:28 Tubesock wrote: I agree that HF can fakeclaim as either alignment, that I don't believe that him claiming should be alignment indicative in any way. Alright, thanks for making that clear. Because obviously there's a ton of difference between Fecalfeast saying "he fakes as town or mafia" and you saying "he would claim just as easily as town medic as he would mafia." | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 06 2018 11:36 Tubesock wrote: Didn't you just chastise me for talking about mass claiming strategy? And here you are talking about setup and strategy. Your hypocrisy is delicious. No, I did not just chastise you for talking about mass claiming strategy. What I said is that there's no need to decide whether to mass claim on Day TWO until Day TWO. There'll be new information to work with on Day 2 that we don't have now, so discussing that choice now is only a distraction. Discussing whether to mass claim on Day 1 would be pertinent, and discussing the setup even moreso. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 11:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: @noobking, it says this is the setup from the OP. > Mafioso, Roleblocker, Medic vs 3 Medics, 7 Vanilla Townies. So I think it's safe to say this is what we're running with? I don't know though, i didn't read much of the pre game discussion tbh i just signed up The post you're quoting is from 2/16 though. The two posts I quoted where the Narrator says he intends to change the setup are from 2/19. Think we definitely need to know whether that happened or not. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 06 2018 14:42 Tubesock wrote: I must be obtuse. I don't get why it's all that different in the context "is HolyFlare town for claiming" between "he fakes as town or mafia" or "he would claim just as easily as town medic as he would mafia"? Although, I meant to add "mafia medic" in there. What obvious difference do you see? The obvious difference is that Fecalfeast said HF makes fake claims as both Town and Mafia, while you said that HF could just as easily make the claim as Town medic or Mafia. If he makes the claim as Town medic, it's not FAKE. So what you did is take something Fecalfeast said, twisted it into something he DIDN'T say, and then "agreed" with it. That's why I forced you into telling us whether or not you agree with what he ACTUALLY said, and not just what you ACTED like he said. You told me you do agree with what he actually said, so I thanked you for your answer. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 14:45 Tubesock wrote: What's wrong with being prickly/pricky? Do you think he's right? Should we not talk about mass claiming D2? Is there a difference of talking about mass claiming and the timing of it? Does anyone actually think the medics shouldn't EVER mass claim? So, obviously if you are going to discuss strategy you will be talking about the timing. I didn't like him saying "talking about D2 claim is a distraction" and then he goes back to talking about mass claiming. It's scummy to try to shut down discussion especially when nothing else is going on. He may not have said "mass claim" but he was refering to pregame conversation which was about mass claiming. Since you directed this post to AMG, I'll let him answer you. But after that, if you want me to answer it too, let me know. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 15:30 Tubesock wrote: I didn't twist anything. They're two separate statements. That's the point! They're two separate statements! So when he says what he said, and you quote it and say "agreed," followed by what you said, that's like someone saying "Tuesday is the best day of the week" and a 2nd person quoting it and responding with "Agreed, today is Tuesday." Those aren't the same thing. Are they agreeing with the 1st statement and also adding a 2nd statement? Did they misunderstand the 1st statement? Are they misrepresenting the 1st statement to mean something it didn't? (this one is what it looks like to me at first glance). So I made you take a stance on whether you agreed with his original statement. That removes the option for you to later say you "just misunderstood." That would be HUGELY important if HF were to later flip Red, because it would offer tons of context on whether you were trying to protect him. You've clarified that you agree with the original statement, were also adding a 2nd statement, so I have my answer, and we can move on. Make sense? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 14:45 Tubesock wrote: Do you think he's right? Should we not talk about mass claiming D2? Is there a difference of talking about mass claiming and the timing of it? Does anyone actually think the medics shouldn't EVER mass claim? So, obviously if you are going to discuss strategy you will be talking about the timing. I didn't like him saying "talking about D2 claim is a distraction" and then he goes back to talking about mass claiming. It's scummy to try to shut down discussion especially when nothing else is going on. Talking about D2 mass claim is a distraction, when we're not in D2. Again, we'll have more information on whether a D2 mass claim would be beneficial once we're actually IN D2. If we tried to make a decision about it now, something could happen before then that changes the equation. Talking about whether to mass claim on D2 during D1 prevents scumhunting by letting the thread be clogged up with a decision that can't be acted on yet, based on variables that could be completely different by the time it CAN be acted on. It also needlessly lengthens the thread, making it tougher to re-read later. And then I went back to talking about mass claiming. YUP. Because the decision to make on Day ONE is whether or not we should have a mass claim on Day ONE. THIS is what we should be talking about. But first, I'd sure like verification from the Narrator on whether the setup is the one posted in the OP, or the one he said he'd be changing it to, because that also changes the equation. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 16:01 Holyflare wrote: I like this. He basically said I'm town medic and slipped  Eh, maybe. A true "scumslip" like that is pretty darn rare though. I'd be more interested in hearing whether anyone with prior history with Tubesock in games thinks its unusual for him to immediately take the claim at face value. Him "making nice" with the first person to claim medic may or may not be alignment-indicative for someone, depending on their personality. Anybody know him? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 16:04 rsoultin wrote: My impression of his game so far can be boiled down to two sentences: Hey guys how should we play the setup that doesn't matter for another 48 hours! Hey guys do you have any thoughts? The first is fine if he were trying to get reads, but given the lack of reads he apparently got from it hes coming across to me as existing rather than solving. I feel like this would be more significant if he had actually come back, and said some things that didn't contribute anything worthwhile. As it stands now, he just...hasn't been back. So maybe you'll get what you want from him when he returns. Unless Damdred is a "constantly checking the game" type of guy, I don't really see anything to hate on. His post that said "Well this will be my last game for awhile as I don't think its fair to further strain my activity level with my new job" was made before roles went out. It offers him cover to fake being afk if he drew scum in this game, but I don't know if there's anything we can do about it. If that's what happened, then it just...worked out nice for him. lol | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 16:08 Holyflare wrote: The setup is the one in the op. That's good news, if true. How do you know though? Seems to be lots of trolling in these games, so I can't tell if you're serious. Would still like to hear it from the Narrator or the Assistant, to be sure. | ||
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n00bKing
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By all means, talk reads. But do you have anything to add to why your attitude toward the Day 1 mass claim is "no"? I think a "yes" or "no" becomes a lot more valuable when someone explains their reasoning behind it. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 16:23 Tubesock wrote: You do realize that I think HF is either town medic or mafia medic.....how is that making nice? Cuz 75% of the medics are town. If someone says they're a medic and you immediately are like "yeah, I believe him" then if you're scum and believe HF to be one of the stronger town players, it could be an attempt to make him feel like he has an ally in you. You also instantly put damdred in your "town pile" for reasons that are...not real strong. Due to those things, it would be good if someone who knows your history could tell us whether you're someone who tends to randomly take claims at face value (as opposed to someone who is generally skeptical of them) and whether you're someone who tends to try and buddy up to notable Town players when you're Scum. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 06 2018 16:30 rsoultin wrote: Let me make this abundantly clear: What I saw while Damdred was IN THE THREAD was not detective Damdred. It was please be friends with me Damdred. The first is town. K. On March 06 2018 16:31 Holyflare wrote: The op was not announced as changed, the opening post didn't state any changes were made. If the host said they might change something and did but didn't inform us then that's dumb. Send them a PM if you want answers though. K. I totally agree it would be dumb. And you would know how the hosts do things around here better than I would, so I'll assume there's a 99% chance the setup matches the OP. Which means that yes, I'll send them a PM to check. lol /OCD | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 16:40 Holyflare wrote: Enough about mass claiming. Yeah, no. If anyone believes they have a compelling argument in favor of the Day 1 mass claim, they should post it, and not feel like the discussion is over just because Holyflare said "enough about mass claiming." If no one comes forward with that compelling argument, then we'll just continue playing the game normally (which we should keep doing in the meantime) and then reevaluate the option on Day 2. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 16:58 Tubesock wrote: If I were scum, I'd just avoid Holyflare and kill him at night. Although I have gotten in two shitfights with him as mafia. When you were mafia or when he was mafia? On March 06 2018 16:58 Tubesock wrote: So, what are your thoughts about his claim? I don't think anything about it yet. People say he makes fake claims as either allegiance. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 17:08 Tubesock wrote: I don't think I'd get anything out of a conversation with AMG. Prickly players only scum? That's certainly not my experience at all so we don't have common ground there. And I was more interested in n00bking. Which I'm still deciding on. I still don't like hypocrisy. I think his nitpicking is his way of digging deep for more understanding so I think it's towny. Ugh. I don't like any of that post. Being "more interested in n00bking" isn't a good reason to avoid any discussion with AMG. You can talk to 2 players at once, you know. Keeping a singular focus on one topic helps to keep you from needing to develop opinions on any other subject, and that's not good. And even if you thought you had "no common ground" with him about what makes players prickly (and even if you thought discussing the disagreement with him wouldn't help you determine whether he actually sees it differently, or is just pretending to) you could have just talked to him about something else instead. Like...you could have talked to him about the thing you were "more interested in." ME! Why not ask him why he has the townread on me? He might share something that changes your mind. Or you might share something that changes his. Having NO desire to discuss me with someone who takes the opposite opinion just makes it look like you already know my allegiance. 'splain yourself. ##Vote: Tubesock | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 18:23 Calix wrote: Just to clarify, the setup in the OP is correct and has not been changed. Thanks. At least the hosts respond to PMs quickly! lol | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 18:53 rsoultin wrote: Like, basically I can see tubesock being scum here. I just think it would be a shame to auto him for nonsense (especially if he ends up flipping town), even if I think mostly town is pushing him. I can't speak for the other votes against Tubesock, but I'm not saying we auto him (if "auto him" means what I think it means). The post where I voted against him demands that he 'splain himself, it doesn't say "ok everyone, we've got our Day 1 lynch, let's do this!" Since the time that AMG and myself went from "talking to" Tubesock to "voting against" Tubesock, he's gone quiet. Which doesn't look great, but we'll see what he says if/when he returns. I'm surprised/disappointed that the players who hadn't made a post yet when I went to sleep (Vivax/Kelsier/chaoser) still haven't made one now that I'm back up again. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 06 2018 20:50 AMG wrote: You think me making excuses to scum read people. What people? I have implied one person was scum and did not like their follow up. One person. So you find my opinion on or attempt at discussion with Tubesock to be forced, or I don't believe what i'm saying when i'm saying it? Yeah, I would like to see this explanation too. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 03:28 rsoultin wrote: Prp is in my slightly townish pile I can't tell why Prp is in your townish pile, any more than I can tell why Prp is in FF's scummy pile. If the situation is that it's "nothing substantive, just a feeling" then I wish people would just say that, so I don't have to ask them "why?" Why is Prp slightly townish? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 03:36 rsoultin wrote: There's just something really off about DF's entry. He's in the thread while people are talking about things, and tubesock had already made his (bad?) post (though no one had called him out for it yet), and he just...isn't in the mood? It makes me think he didn't like his role pm. Especially since he seemed to feel the need to respond to moosey and to make his excuses. Idk. I immediately disliked DF for that too, when it's like: DF - *notices game has started* DF - *decides he's not in the mood to play anymore, bails* But decided to control my knee-jerk reaction, and not make anything of it. If someone were bummed about pulling a scum role in this game, then yeah, I could imagine them just making a couple of "ok, I'm here" posts and then disappearing for a while, but to actually SAY in the thread that he's not in the mood is much stranger. WIFOM and all that, but still, it would be weird (I think) for a scum player to draw attention to themselves by raising their hand and being like "Look at me! I'm here, but I'm not actually going to play the game!" | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 04:15 rsoultin wrote: In other news if we're into lynching afkers it's a bit more alignment-indicative for vivax and ksc to be silent. I think vivax the most. So there's that \o/ Can you explain why silent Vivax/Kelsier is more alignment-indicative than silent chaoser? | ||
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n00bKing
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HF's "good chat" post makes me uneasy. Should it not? You mentioned him as townpile after that post, so I'm assuming it didn't bother you. But since the time that he tried to shut down discussion of a D1 mass claim, he didn't really put forth anything else to discuss in its place. He's barely talked about anything but Tubesock. I'm guessing "good chat" means he's satisfied with the direction of the thread/voting at this stage, but that could be good for Town or bad for Town. lol @Holyflare: No follow-up questions for your vote target? No reactions to anything else that's been said about your vote target in the meantime? No comments on anything else that's going on? (admittedly, not much else is going on...) @Damdred: Have any strong impressions on HF? (just with regard to his allegiance, not with regard to whether he is/isn't "a medic" for one side or the other) | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 04:52 darthfoley wrote: Idk I think mass claiming too early turns this game into a mechanic-obsessed game (which it already kind of is) in which people forget to make organic reads on people. Makes more sense to see everyone playing the game for a while before mass claims happen. Do you have a particular reason you want D1 mass claims that I've missed? Nope. I don't necessarily "want D1 mass claims." I just really wanted it to be discussed, because I've never played a format like this before (has anyone in here played this format before, besides the host?) Roleclaims were a big part of the pre-game discussion, so if anyone thought of a reason why a D1 mass claim would really put the mafia's back to the wall, I wanted to hear about it. We have some players who haven't posted yet, but to this point, no one has posted a good reason to perform a mass claim on D1. So I'm guessing it won't happen, and can just be looked at again on D2. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 05:12 darthfoley wrote: AMG and n00b are pretty townie ATM. I think Damdred is kinda townie right now actually, for once. Maybe rsoultin too, because I agree with her about Tubesock. He might be mafia, but not for the reasons HF is pushing. The medic thing is really NAI even if it's "strange" Mostly agree. So yeah, my stated reasons for voting Tubesock and HF's stated reasons for voting Tubesock are quite a bit different. Part of why I asked HF if he has any reaction to the things that have been said about his vote target, since the time he placed the vote. On March 07 2018 05:12 darthfoley wrote: Lynch pool of prplhz, FF and Tubesock for the time being. I really didn't like how FF announced his first read, then felt the need to explain why he's scumreading prplhz in the next post. I think you either 1) do both in one post or 2) announce your scum read, then explain it if asked. Just felt a tad like he's trying to make sure everyone knows he has reasoning behind his scumread, if that makes sense. I see nothing to like in FF's play so far, but to be fair, he HAD more or less been asked for the reasoning behind his scumread on prpl, before he made the 2nd post explaining it. It was 2 posts in a row for HIM, but there were several posts by other people between them. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 05:28 Fecalfeast wrote: I would sheep a rsoultin wagon You mf'ers are not lynching rsoul while there's 3 people who haven't even posted yet, and while Tubesock's thread activity went like this: Tubesock: *post, post, post, post* n00b: *votes against Tubesock* Tubesock: *POOF* | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 05:37 Fecalfeast wrote: You get really serious about off the cuff posts That's right. I don't wear cuffs, and I don't like people who wear cuffs.  | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 05:25 rsoultin wrote: lynchpool: tube, ff, afkers ftw Still not feeling a prp lynch though he'd prob be next in line afterwards. Followed by hf. Or maybe hf first. Either way I don't really have a problem with either and see reasons to think they could be town. Your prior thoughts on HF sounded like you were townleaning him. So why might you be open to lynching him before the lynchpool? Do you agree with whoever it was that said HF is the scum player who would be most likely to overcome the town-favored setup? Or...what? I don't get this. (maybe you just meant HF "first" before prp and not "first" before everyone?) | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 05:44 Fecalfeast wrote: Man noobking if you're scum I'll be super impressed. Bleeding town on top of talking about host interactions in thread makes you lock green to me forever I always make sure to set up an IV drip of green food coloring for my bloodstream, when I pull a scum role. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 05:48 MoosyDoosy wrote: If anything, rsoultin changes her reads to conform to Damdred's over time. Considering how hard Damdred townread rsoultin I think she's metagaming him to seem townie and working around his reads because she knows he can read her. If rsoul were scum and "knows damdred can read her" then why would she draw his eyes to her by making him her early scumread and pushing for his lynch? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 05:51 MoosyDoosy wrote: @Damdred and @noobking. What do you guys think about what I've said about rsoultin so far? Also anyone else that cares to contribute. I think I don't see what you're seeing. I stood back and let her answer your line of questioning herself, so as not to interfere in your interrogation, but the change in her perception of DF didn't look like a "flip flop" to me. Almost all of his posts (and all of his meaningful posts) came after her initial impression of him. Seems perfectly reasonable that someone's views on another player could substantially change once that other player actually...like...starts saying things. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 05:57 MoosyDoosy wrote: Metagame. Damdred said this is what he'd expect from town rsoultin so she might be doing it as scum to make him she's town. *shrug* You can ask Damdred whether he thinks that's something she's likely to try. Anyway, she seems willing to engage with you (even while simultaneously saying there's no way you could get her lynched) so feel free to keep needling her (she's at least giving us plenty of content to try and nail her with later, if she IS scum) but don't let yourself fall into the "tunnel" she talked about. You haven't placed a vote, right? If the day ended in 2 hours instead of 26 hours, who do you think should get the noose? | ||
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n00bKing
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 06:25 rsoultin wrote: Vivax is prob the best counterwagon to Tubesock. There's a very real possibility that I may change my vote, but as I said...of the afker's, his absence is the most alignment indicative. ##vote: Vivax On March 07 2018 06:25 rsoultin wrote: Who are the other scum with me, then? Would have to be chaoser or Kelsier, right? That's why Vivax is the afker you want to lynch. lol | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 06:32 MoosyDoosy wrote: meh. I'm holding my vote until Damdred comes back and responds to my thoughts. But I am probably going to vote for Tubesock here. There aren't really any other convincing arguments for me other than him and my own suspicions on rsoultin. For anyone to purposely be "holding their vote" at this stage just seems dumb to me. If Tubesock would be your lynch, put your vote on him. If it would be someone else, put your vote on them instead. If you're Town, you should want the voting record to be reflective of people's intentions. I'm tired of reading about what you kinda/sorta/maybe want to do, except that you have to talk to daddy damdred first. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 07:25 darthfoley wrote: Like I can see myself having a similar weak scum read on someone who did what I did. At least to stir the pot a bit cuz at the time she made that read, the thread was a "poop on tubesock" fest iirc You're *this* close, darthfoley... You're *THIS* close to making me just call him "poopsock" from here on out. lol | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 10:18 Tubesock wrote: This is what I said: It was more a response to Fecalfeast's idea of mass claiming D2, but it also advises town what I think town should do concerning mass claiming. In fact I wasn't specific because I understand the reality that when things change town players will start thinking it's a good idea/time and then it will present itself. The sentence prior even shows uncertainty about D2 claiming which would indicate I'm open to it if the conditions are right. So, he then zeros in on my D2 comment and is just "No discussion of D2" and then goes on about the setup and pregame conversation. Like he nitpicked 1 thing, and ignored the rest. I don't think he thought about my post. I thought that was scummy. Like I don't think wanting to just talk about D1 mass claiming is inconsistent. But my post answers that question also, so he wasn't really looking to talk about it. Like he wanted to PUSH the mass claim D1. He even later tries to throw shade on Holyflare for shutting down claim talk. Clearly people are not into claiming D1. As far as the nitpicky bit goes. In my experience, I'll say something weird and then people jump on my ass for it. Then a mafia sees thread sentiment and nitpicks to "lead" the charge. In this case I think n00b did that first so wasn't following thread sentiment. So, he's acting more like a Rels used to, rather than an opportunistic mafiosa. Yeah...I really "zeroed in" on your D2 comment....your post was 3 lines long, and one of the lines was "Hola." Then one of the lines was what I considered to be simple common sense, and didn't really need stating. Sorry for not quoting the part I thought was common sense and saying "Look at this, this is common sense!" So yeah, I focused on 1 thing, and ignored the rest. I focused on the 1 thing I actually thought needed anything said about it. Think that's pretty normal. And I didn't "throw shade" at HF for trying to shut down the claim conversation. I only said that anyone who has something to say about it should still do so, and not let themselves be silenced by him. How is it that you've come back and made more posts, without responding to the post where I went from just talking with you, to actually voting against you? I've already expressed that I didn't love the fact that the moment you switched from answering each post that came in, to disappearing for 16 hours or whatever it was, was also the moment I went from just having a conversation with you, to actually putting a vote on you. Could that have just been coincidence? Yeah, maybe. But it doesn't look like it, when upon your return to the thread, you STILL never acknowledge that post in any way, shape, or form. Did that part of Page 12 just magically escape your notice? "splain yourself." | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 07 2018 10:45 Tubesock wrote: I like how he did it too. As mafia I don't think he would have defended me like he did. I think he would have been more firm in either the defense or attack. So being wishy-washy is a Town trait now? There's nothing to like about Prpl's play, in my opinion. All he's done is claim Cop, be vague and non-committal about whether he thinks you should be pushed, be vague and non-committal about suspicions that AMG's reads feel forced, and talk about a SK role that we know isn't in the game. I never like it when people say something like "I'm interested in seeing where this goes though." Just means they have no plans of making it go somewhere themselves...so I think to myself....then what good are you? | ||
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On March 07 2018 11:12 AMG wrote: Hes not squirming like mafia do. That and hes advocating a 'wait and see' approach on the only other wagon to himself.... which is a person who hasn't even posted yet. From that Ill extrapolate that they're either mafia together, or Tubesock isn't mafia Too big a leap in logic, for my tastes. Advocating "wait and see" with 20 hours left in the Phase isn't like saying it with 2 hours left. And whether a Mafia player squirms under pressure or not just depends on the circumstances, and their own personality type. Only the Mafia players know coming into the game that there are other players in the game who don't want to see them lynched. This makes them tougher to lynch than Town players, and can sometimes result in them being "cool under pressure." Some Town players will totally spaz in that same position, because they know nobody has their back. Other Town players can themselves be "cool under pressure" because they have a measure of boldness that comes from being certain of their own innocence. | ||
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On March 07 2018 15:14 Tubesock wrote: Lol, I already said why I didn’t interact with AMG at first and even he later said I’m not coherent In any way so clearly it isn’t just me. Maybe at the time I didn’t have the energy because I was doing something else too? As for 16 hours afk. Hahahaha think of two activities that generally use up 8 hours at a time. My sincere apologies that my gaming time doesn’t align with your desires your highness. You said why you didn't interact with AMG over the issue of whether players being prickly is scum-indicative. You did NOT answer to this: On March 06 2018 18:01 n00bKing wrote: even if you thought you had "no common ground" with him about what makes players prickly (and even if you thought discussing the disagreement with him wouldn't help you determine whether he actually sees it differently, or is just pretending to) you could have just talked to him about something else instead. Like...you could have talked to him about the thing you were "more interested in." ME! Why not ask him why he has the townread on me? He might share something that changes your mind. Or you might share something that changes his. Having NO desire to discuss me with someone who takes the opposite opinion just makes it look like you already know my allegiance. Would talking to him about that also have been pointless? And if so, why? RE: 16 hours, I said the timing of your disappearance could be coincidental. But the timing of your disappearance LOOKS BAD. You're talking, talking, talking, answering, answering, answering...until the moment I say you've made a post that makes me willing to actually go from just talking with you, to voting against you. That was when you vanished for a third of the Phase. It doesn't help me think better of you. | ||
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On March 07 2018 12:39 MoosyDoosy wrote: Add this question too to the list of things Tube seems like he's just throwing out trying to make stick. I'm going to leave to finish my essay I actually have to do by tonight but I want feedback from other people on what they think. If anyone legitimately wants me to explain this read though also, just say so and I will when I get back. Sure, I'll raise my hand for this one. If you think explaining it will be counter-productive for the Town, say that. Otherwise...stop avoiding Tubesock's question? | ||
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Does anyone agree or disagree with rsoul's assessment that the silence from Vivax and Kelsier (and especially Vivax) is more alignment-indicative than it is for chaoser? Does anyone even know chaoser? I think it's also worth discussing whether any of those players are strong Town assets *when* they are Town. For example, let's say people generally agree that Vivax is more likely than the average player, to no-show a thread while Scum. If it just so happens that he had done it as Town this time, would we be shooting ourselves in the foot in a major way by mislynching him, and losing the services of Town Vivax, cuz maybe he was going to show up later and be a Scum-wrecking machine? Or is it big upside and only small downside? And then same question regarding our other 2 no-shows. | ||
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On March 07 2018 15:44 Tubesock wrote: Uh it was pretty clear you were going to vote me so the timing wasn’t relevant at all. It wasn't clear to ME that I was going to vote against you, until you made the post that I identified as being the one that actually caused me to place the vote. Tubesock wrote: I’ll even go a step further, you’re not going to vote anyone else today. lol, guess we'll see, huh? Meanwhile, you're still not answering the question. Third time: In addition to not wanting to talk to AMG about whether it's scum-indicative for players to be prickly, why did you also not want to talk to him about me, the thing you claimed to be "more interested in" at the time, and a topic where you knew he had a differing opinion? Why would you not want to bounce your thoughts about me off of other players, unless you already knew my allegiance? | ||
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On March 07 2018 17:34 MoosyDoosy wrote: The post was really light and jokey and metagamey and toney which are all things I see town Damdred doing. It's a tonal read so that's about as good as the description gets but I've actually played a fair amount of games with Damdred and this seems town Damdred. Then I don't understand the need to conceal this answer, when Tubesock asks you about it. | ||
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On March 07 2018 16:58 n00bKing wrote: Who should be the D1 lynch, Tubesock? Well, I guess Tubesock either left or "left" before he could answer. But I'm off to bed, so if anyone sees Tubesock tomorrow before I've made it back to the thread, please remind him of this question. Because we know that when he returned to the thread, it was without scumreads, and then he said this to Moosy: On March 07 2018 12:23 Tubesock wrote: To some extent, shouldn't I be doing whatever I can to find an alternative wagon? you even say "Tubesock do something productive" so isn't looking for another wagon outside of me "productive"? And the answer to those questions is...yes. But it didn't look to me like he actually *did* it, so check on his progress tomorrow. The more uncertainty there is about who will be the D1 lynch, the more value there is in getting Tubesock's answer about who he believes it *should* be. So the sooner it happens, the better. | ||
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On March 07 2018 18:36 rsoultin wrote: I'm short I understand talking to him but not why his opinion has any bearing on your vote? Pretty sure I tried this already. Good luck! | ||
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On March 07 2018 20:03 AMG wrote: this wagon on Vivax is a farce. Lynching someone who hasn't posted when you've got plenty of stuff in the thread to work with is just lazy. He flips scum, what do we learn? nada. squat. I mean yay we got a scum, but its just dumb ass luck if he flips scum. Conversely he flips town, everyone on his wagon says 'welp he was afk, had it coming', and we chuck an entire cycle away. Lots of bad reasoning here, imo. Lynching an afk player at the end of D1 is not the same as chucking the cycle away. All of the D1 discussion and voting still happened (and analysis of it can still have value) even if you settle on a player who hasn't posted, at the end The only thing that would marginalize the value of the D1 discussion is if everyone knew throughout the phase that ultimately an afk player will be lynched. That definitely has not been the case in this game. Additionally, for a player who isn't posting to flip scum in this game may not be "just dumb ass luck." While rsoul said that no-showing the game thread was more scum-indicative for Vivax and Kelsier than it is for chaoser, I think no-showing the game thread can be scum-indicative in THIS game, for ANY player, regardless of that player's personal history, given the fact that so much of the pre-game discussion revolved around the idea that the setup is heavily town-favored. Under those conditions, any player who pulled a scum role could be more likely to no-show the main thread than they ordinarily would be. Speaking of rsoul's comment that no-showing the thread is more alignment-indicative for Vivax and Kelsier than it is for chaoser...if that's how she felt, then after HF says Vivax is actually prone to going afk as either alignment, and Vixax makes an appearance, and rsoul takes her vote off of Vivax, I don't know why she wouldn't just go to the next stop, and put the vote on Kelsier. How is that not the natural next step in the progression/thought process? And it's not like as if she's even passing over that logical next step in favor of some other logical vote. She's passing over the logical next step in favor of just not voting. When she asked Moosy who her scummates would be and I said that one of them would almost have to be Kelsier or chaoser, I was at least half-joking, and maybe more like 90% joking. But everything that's happened since then has sure followed that script, so if one of those players eventually flips red, I think she would need additional scrutiny. Based on the current vote count, I'm gonna go read the DF filter. Back soon. | ||
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So I don't think DF's lack of drive automatically makes him a good lynch, unless you feel like a Town DF *would* show an actual "want to solve anything" and *would* show "drive." Is that the case? Because again, unless there's reason for you to expect more than this from a Town DF, then I don't see anything that makes this particular mole the one that needs whacking. His posting style is pretty careless. The filter is filled with him either repeating something he already said, or repeating something someone else already said. An example of him repeating himself is this post: On March 07 2018 07:27 darthfoley wrote: n00b/rsoultin/AMG/Damdred is my town list ATM He'd already named all 4 of those players as townreads. No need for a new, distinct post that merely says the same thing. And an example of him repeating another player is this: On March 08 2018 04:49 darthfoley wrote: FF's filter reads like he's heavily influenced by the slightest amount of thread sentiment. he's talked about lynching prplhz, rsoultin, vivax, Tubesock, me with basically no explanation. Which is basically everyone that has had any pressure on him/herself today. I'm fine scum reading him That post might as well be a copy & paste of Moosy's "King of Wagons" thing. (By the way, I think "Wagon King" would sound way cooler than "King of Wagons." Calls to mind the Witch King. Good stuff.) DF also parroted my verbiage almost exactly, when talking about prpl's "wishy washyness." I'd expect a little more caution and a little more mindfulness than this, from most scum players. If a scum player wasn't going to pay any more attention than this, why bother even making the posts? Just be yet another afk dude instead. | ||
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On March 08 2018 06:10 rsoultin wrote: Your criticism is both fair and logical but disregards that 1) I have not been here 2) When I came back I was clearly inclined to scumread HF which always beats out null reads...It being most alignment indicative for vivax to afk does not mean I thought he was more scummy ago than an actual scumread 3) When I came back I found it weird that vivax was only commenting on the beginning of the game while making reads on people that seeme only possible to come from later in the game...thus disjointed 1) You were here when you unvoted Vivax. If you had no better place to put the vote than the next no-show in the progression (Kelsier) then that's where it should have gone. If you did have a better place to put the vote (like a new scumread) then it should have gone there instead. Leaving yourself as a non-voter just looks like "Kelsier is where my vote was logically supposed to go next, but...I don't wanna." 2) Yet you voted against Vivax, and did NOT vote against HF. 3) Then you could have put your vote BACK on Vivax before leaving, instead of just threatening him about how you were tempted to. I don't get people's reluctance to just place a damn vote, but there's too much of it going in for me to label it as a scum-indicator. Anyway, assuming we both survive the lynch, this discussion can wait til the Night Phase. It isn't something that needs to be occupying space in the thread while we're less than 2 hours from the lynch. And I won't get bug-eyed over any of it unless one of Kelsier/chaoser flips Red anyway. | ||
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On March 08 2018 06:11 Holyflare wrote: You can't say that mafia is disheartened by the game type earlier and then say that darthfoley doesn't look like scum because he appears disheartened, not cautious and isn't putting in effort. It'll make more sense if you read all of it? He doesn't appear disheartened, and he's putting in more than no effort, even if it's fairly low effort. He's definitely NOT cautious. Like I said already, if he were disheartened and not wanting to put in any effort, why is he even making the posts he is, instead of just blending in with the other lurkers/no-shows? And if he's made the decision to make posts and play, and is scum, then why is he not more cautious? On March 08 2018 06:12 Holyflare wrote: I don't even know what your last post actually is. Is it a scum read or a town read? It's the first third contradicting what I said, the next third saying he's doing scummy things and the last third saying he's not mafia because he does scummy things? Mmm, no. The first third contradicts what you said, the next third says he's doing things that are NOT scummy, and the last third says he doesn't look like Mafia to me because the things he's doing are NOT scummy (I have no idea where you would get the idea that I was labeling his carelessness as scummy. Quite the opposite.) All 3 parts are in accordance with each other. They all mean "this is a bad lynch unless you have reason to believe that a Town DF would be playing differently than this." And you have now said that "When he has no drive, doesn't actually commit to anything and posts as he is then it's simply more likely that he's mafia." That's NEW information. And changes things. Does anyone agree with HF's assessment of DF's play in other games? | ||
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On March 08 2018 06:24 rsoultin wrote: Not sure why you bothered posting it in the first place then but okay. So I wouldn't forget to respond to you. | ||
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On March 08 2018 06:32 n00bKing wrote: Does anyone agree with HF's assessment of DF's play in other games? Didn't see any backup on this, but to my eyes, the DF lynch doesn't thrill me. The push on Tubesock has been going for a long time, without much result, so I guess it's not happening today. ##Unvote Would love to see this happen: ##Vote: KelsierSC | ||
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...huh? Because Kelsier was a no-show (in the game thread at least) and prpl wasn't. You act like one vs. the other is an equivalent choice. It's not. If people want to make a big deal over this, I can explain further. But I would have thought that the reasons why you lynch a literal no-show (like Kelsier or chaoser) over someone who makes a few posts and then bails for the rest of the Phase (like prpl or damdred) were fairly obvious. | ||
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On March 08 2018 07:26 rsoultin wrote: I'll openly admit that I could probably be easily fooled by a scum df (and yes blatantly ignoring the claim cause whatevs) but I'm just not finding the arguments against him compelling when his read on me developed fairly naturally I thought. There were arguments against him that I didn't find compelling either, obviously. But "ignoring the claim" is generous, because in a vacuum, it actually makes him more likely to be scum than if he'd not said it. | ||
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Looks like DF is right. Tubesock posted "GG" exactly on the deadline, so we know he was here. Not sure why he chose to not say anything else. I'll look at the last couple pages of the Day phase again, and see if there's any reason why it matters that he stopped posting. | ||
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On March 08 2018 08:20 Vivax wrote: In this case it might be smart to decide who gets vigged tonight. Assuming that df is town, we can decide that he can heal someone undisclosed. While town can direct the other two medics to kill someone voting or something. No. BAD. If DF is a legit Town medic, and the scum manage to guess who he heals, they can heal the same target, and kill him. And if DF is a legit Town medic, but heals a different target than the other two Town medics, then if the scum manage to roleblock one of those other two Town medics, the kill won't go off. The 3 Town medics should all choose the same target, as that will nullify both the scum roleblocker AND the scum medic, and it's like we have a reusable Vigilante, and they have NO roles at ALL. If I'm missing something, then someone let me know. But otherwise, this should not even be a debate. | ||
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On March 08 2018 08:58 MoosyDoosy wrote: Also evidently this game is NOT as easy I thought it would be On March 08 2018 09:13 Holyflare wrote: It is easy and you plebs switched off df. Someone double-check me, please. But it looks to me like the only player who switched off of DF was Vivax. | ||
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On March 08 2018 09:29 Holyflare wrote: When Tubesock posted like halfway through the cycle a bunch of walls of texts that I glossed over and pretty much said "this says nothing and it's not towny looking" but amg insta switched and it came off as really odd timing back then. If amg is mafia it could have potentially been an "oh the guy is posting responses to me I have to look like I'm re-evaluating." Eh. I didn't really dislike the timing of the switch so much as what just felt to me like hollow reasoning for the switch. I'll read his filter again in light of the fact that we know for sure that Tubesock was Town, but as a "quick take" AMG is a very low priority for me, and I wouldn't be wanting to see him overdosed by our medics tonight. On March 08 2018 09:29 Holyflare wrote: Noob just dropped tubesock for absolutely 0 reason when tube was the biggest wagon(????) and then voted his not even other scum read. Doesn't make sense. Then his defence of df looks fucking weird when he says it was a reason to town read df. Either you misremember, or you are spreading misinformation, and there are NO other possibilities. So go look again. Tube was absolutely not the biggest wagon, and there's a 0% chance I would have switched off the presumptive lynch and then left. Not only was Tube not in the noose at that time, but it wasn't a tie, either. DF had the vote lead. If you read the hours leading up to the moment I said I was leaving, you'll see that there was exactly NO reason for me to think that Tubesock could wind up as the D1 lynch. None. At all. The only person to vote against Tubesock before I did (though for a very different set of reasons) was you, and you had turned your attention elsewhere, and moved your vote. The person who basically said "yeah, this" to my argument against Tubesock was AMG, and he not only moved his vote, but actually dealt Tubesock a townread! (Kudos to him on that, if AMG is Town himself.) 20 pages of me trying to pressure Tubesock resulted in there being all of TWO votes on him, at the time I left: Me and Moosy. And even me and Moosy were not making Tubesock a topic of conversation anymore, in the last few hours. Tubesock stopped responding to me, telling me pointblank that "that's all you're getting" and that wasn't helping me get any other people to put votes on him, and see if maybe they would respond to THEM instead. The discussion about Tubesock was history. Y'all act like if I'd just left my vote on Tubesock instead of moving it to start the wagon on Kelsier, you'd have been happier! lol But based on how things looked when I made my final post, leaving my vote on Tubesock would've been approximately as productive as leaving my vote on the Easter Bunny. That would have been poor play on my part. Instead, I put my vote on the no-show, so that if no consensus on "who's scummy?" could be reached in the final hour, then people could use the fallback option of consolidating votes on the no-show (an option I'd already mentioned before, and an option that is pretty much "standard operating procedure" on the other website I play these games at). That's good play on my part. On March 08 2018 09:29 Holyflare wrote: Prplhz obviously for being hipster on tubesock. "Being hipster" means what? Being "hip" to the fact that a push against Tubesock would be misguided? If so, sure. | ||
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On March 08 2018 14:31 MoosyDoosy wrote: meh. I disagree with this. You get more information from killing someone who is a lurker from their few posts. There is always the possibility that a completely afk person continues to be afk in which case he'll be modkilled and we wouldn't have wasted anything on him. You can't get as much information from killing someone who is low-activity as you can get from seeing what they say if they aren't DEAD. In my experience, people who are low activity usually tend to come back. And if they're Town, they can still contribute (they did show SOME interest in participating in the game after it started, at least, and they have seen SOME of what happened, as it happened) and if they're Scum, their posts will give you more opportunities to catch them. As well as more opportunities to see who they end up tied to WHILE you catch them. Conversely, I've virtually never seen a total Day 1 no-show Town player come into the thread later, and then play like a rock star. Those players hadn't shown that interest in participating, and then by the time they come along, the thread is unwieldy, and reading filters doesn't yield context if you weren't following along at the time. Even reading the thread straight through may not yield proper context, if you aren't paying attention to timestamps the whole way too. The value to the Town of a Town player who no-showed Day 1 is LOW. But the value to the Mafia of a Mafia player who no-showed Day 1 is still HIGH. His value to his team erodes at a MUCH slower rate, and that doesn't even account for the possibility that the Mafia no-show has actually been participating in the scum thread while hiding from the game thread, in which case he's already adding utility for his team. If Day 1 discussion yields a reasonably strong consensus of who to scumread, you always lynch that player first. If not, and there's a player with ZERO posts, you fall back on lynching him, over players who are merely low-activity. That's the way the game was taught to me, and I feel like the logic is sound. My attempts to get votes onto Tubesock *lost* ground, and then stalled altogether, as he ceased to even be a topic anymore. I didn't like lynching the counterwagon, so I went to the no-shows and picking Kelsier over chaoser made good sense to me for reasons that I hopefully don't need to repeat to you. | ||
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On March 08 2018 15:42 rsoultin wrote: I don't agree. Maybe I'm not seeing something important, though. Like so many things in Mafia games, it's all just math. We had 10 Town players, 3 were medics. Any given Town player has a 70% chance of being Vanilla. If we're about to mislynch a Town player, there's a 70% chance he's Vanilla. I'll assume that a Vanilla under duress would not fake-claim Town medic, in this setup. 3 Town players can claim Town medic, when under duress. 3 mafia players can fake-claim Town medic, when under duress. 6 players can claim Town medic, 3 are scum (50%). Yet scum make up only 3 of the 13 players (23%). So in a vacuum (if you disregard all other factors), when a player under duress claims Town medic, the likelihood of him being scum more than doubles. If you're going to leave him alive, you need to feel like you have reasons to townread him. You felt like you did, I felt like I did. Vivax didn't, since he was *already* voting against DF *before* the claim that *increased* the chance of DF flipping Red. That sticks out to me in a major way, and is why I wanted to make double-sure Vivax is the only one who did it. On March 08 2018 15:42 rsoultin wrote: Also you're right about the triple stack medic being smarter. *thumbs up* | ||
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On March 08 2018 18:12 MoosyDoosy wrote: prepare yerselves for endless shitposting from the master of shitposting urstruly moosydoosy How come absolutely nothing came of this? Couple of all-caps posts about how you're about to go berserk, and then this, and then...fizzle. | ||
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On March 08 2018 20:29 AMG wrote: He went after n00bking who voted for an AFK slot. Which in no way explains why his vote just stayed on me, instead of going somewhere that had anything to do with the EoD. | ||
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On March 08 2018 22:51 Vivax wrote: And his rebuttal to the suggestion that we direct medics except darthfoley guarantees that nobody is protected tonight. Yep. My rebuttal is also the right course of action. You can agree with me or be wrong. *shrug* | ||
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On March 09 2018 02:24 Vivax wrote: Same could be said for you. Your lynch is on the table but your involvement seems less than D1 to me. Plenty of things to talk about, why just randomly point at moosy for an unfulfilled joke promise and then do nothing with it? lol, I was responding to posts in the order they were made. Just as I've done the whole game. And no, my lynch is NOT on the table. Not even you have tried to suggest that the medics target me tonight. And if you did, you WOULD get shut down. I will nevertheless respond to your other posts, cuz that's just me. | ||
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On March 09 2018 01:07 Vivax wrote: Not just that. This post at the time when df had 3 votes and Noob was still on TS basically reads like him starting to want to defend df by dividing players by usefulness then starts summing up reasons for him being scummy instead. Wrong. I gave ZERO reasons for DF being scummy at that time. And in the time since then, I've still only ever given one reason for him being scummy: He claimed medic while under duress. And amazingly, that's when you decided to take your vote off of him, and put it on me, a player who may as well have had the "lynchproof" ability. On March 09 2018 01:07 Vivax wrote: But concludes with this: So he took the argumentation for DF being mafia and concluded the opposite cause according to him there were enough afks for df not to post anything. Too scummy to be scum while he could be afk. WRONG. That's NOT argumentation for DF being Mafia, it's argumentation for him being Town. I said he shows no caution, I said he's careless. He barely paraphrases his own posts and makes them again, not caring who notices. He barely paraphrases points that have already been made by other players and makes them again, not caring who notices. In the case of him talking about prpl's wishy-washyness, he not only rehashed what I said, he even used my same wording! New posts, but no new information, and NO shame about it. Is this Mafia-type behavior, but SOOOO much of it, that it makes him "too scummy to be scum"? NO! It's TOWN-indicative, because it all reflects the mindset of someone who isn't afraid of being caught. A scum player thinks of something to post, then thinks *about* it (then maybe thinks about it some more) and then decides whether to post it or not. A town player thinks of something, then posts it. A town player maybe forgets that he said it already, because he's not carefully monitoring his own posts. A town player says things that someone else already said, because he hasn't pressured himself about how "I better try to look like I'm thinking for myself. I better generate some original ideas here. I better make myself look like I'm investigating." AMG (who I still continue to townlean) struck me the same way, with a post that essentially read to me like "I'm not going to create original content just for the sake of it, if someone else already said what I think. If you don't like it, too bad." I don't see scum players with that outlook too often. I see town players with that outlook all the time. DF's recklessness is not a scum trait that he just displayed "too much" of. It's a Town trait. | ||
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Lynching an afk player at the end of D1 is not the same as chucking the cycle away. All of the D1 discussion and voting still happened (and analysis of it can still have value) even if you settle on a player who hasn't posted, at the end. The only thing that would marginalize the value of the D1 discussion is if everyone knew throughout the phase that ultimately an afk player will be lynched. That definitely has not been the case in this game. Additionally, for a player who isn't posting to flip scum in this game may not be "just dumb ass luck." While rsoul said that no-showing the game thread was more scum-indicative for Vivax and Kelsier than it is for chaoser, I think no-showing the game thread can be scum-indicative in THIS game, for ANY player, regardless of that player's personal history, given the fact that so much of the pre-game discussion revolved around the idea that the setup is heavily town-favored. Under those conditions, any player who pulled a scum role could be more likely to no-show the main thread than they ordinarily would be. I spoke of reasons why no-shows are good lynches, and I specifically mentioned the strategy of consolidating votes on a no-show at the end of the phase if a consensus scumread could not be found (which, again, is the standard operating procedure where I normally play). For someone to act like my switch to Kelsier just came out of nowhere, they need to have either not been paying attention, or just pretending they weren't paying attention. Which one are you, Vivax? On March 09 2018 00:55 Vivax wrote: Paragraph 1: Explains he doesn't care that he thought prpl was scummy cause he's lynching for information and KSC is better in that regard. Doesn't make the slightest sense but whatever. Basically it's banking on KSC never posting for the rest of the game and an overly worded afk policy lynch. Good lord. This isn't even just "twisting" my words, it's putting words in my mouth that literally were never there. At what point did I supposedly ever say that I thought prpl was scummy, until after the tubesock flip? Nowhere did that ever happen, in D1. I challenged rsoul to give her reasoning for townleaning prpl, because I did not think he'd done anything to warrant a townlean. There was NOTHING to like, about his posts. I then argued with Tubesock about HIS townread on prpl, because again, I did not think prpl had done anything to warrant a townread. There was nothing to like. Tubesock argued that if prpl were scum, he would have come down more firmly on one side or the other, instead of straddling the fence. I said something like "so wishy-washyness is a town trait now?" Because it's not Town-indicative. Mafia players can straddle the fence too, not JUST town players. And yes, Kelsier was a better lynch for information, among other reasons to lynch him over either of prpl or Damdred. And no, it doesn't bank on Kelsier never posting for the rest of the game. It banks on the notion that if he returns and he's Town, his value to the Town team is likely to be drastically lower than his value to the Scum team if he returns and is Scum. IF he is Scum, then for all I know, he's been following the game and participating in the scum thread the whole way. On March 09 2018 00:55 Vivax wrote: Paragraph 2: Something about his subjective experience about what players do who don't participate D1 as further justification. lol, yeah. Our own personal experiences will weigh into basically every decision we ever make in these games. On March 09 2018 00:55 Vivax wrote: Paragraph 3: The bolded stands for b as in bullshit cause we've had discussion revolving around tubesock, prpl to a lesser extent, df all day and Noob basically ignored all of that in his decision on who to put his vote on. And that's already an invalid premise to his entire paragraph since he's claiming there was no consensus anywhere when he was in the thread while df had 3 votes and was leading wagon if I recall correctly. Yeah, there'd been discussion about tubesock, with ME largely driving it. Discussion which had STALLED, before I relented and took my vote off of Tubesock (since, as I said, having my vote on Tubesock looked about as productive as having my vote on the Easter Bunny) and moved it to somewhere that it could actually factor into the D1 lynch: Onto the no-show fallback option. 3 votes on DF is hardly any kind of "consensus" in a 13-player game, and prpl never even had *that* many votes on him (and was a worse D1 lynch candidate than prpl for reasons already outlined). DF is even less of a "consensus" pick at 3 votes, when you consider that rsoul and I both opposed his lynching. Holyflare was trying to get DF into a noose. Which 2 players would hinder that goal the MOST, if there were to be resistance from them? I'd posit those 2 players would be...rsoul and myself. Those were the 2 players it would be toughest to force a lynch past, if they didn't want it. Because we were 2 of the most active players, and we were 2 players who were being widely townread (especially me). It's going to be tough to get the rest of the players to fall in line with a DF lynch, if they are townreading me and/or rsoul, and know that we think DF isn't a good lynch. Kelsier was a good lynch. Why him over prpl? To reiterate... 1) A player who knows Kelsier better than I do (rsoul) had told us that a no-show from HIM is more scum-indicative than the baseline (and hence, more scum-indicative for him than for chaoser, who she didn't seem to know much about). 2) I had already described why I thought a no-show from any player in this game is more scum-indicative than the baseline (based on the setup), regardless of their personal history. 3) I have explained why I think lynching a no-show is preferred, over lynching a low-activity player. I've said that's how I was taught, and I've said I think the logic is sound (it has also yielded good results for me). 4) Pushing a prpl lynch past rsoul would have been difficult for the same reasons pushing a DF lynch past her would have been difficult. She expressed that she didn't want it, she was being townread by a decent portion of players, she was active, and her posts were mostly being respected (with only HF being dismissive, and other players generally acting like her opinions are worth considering and reacting to). 5) But despite #4 above, if she doesn't want a Kelsier lynch...there isn't shit she can do about it. If she's scummates with DF, she can argue against the lynch, and make it sound good. If she's scummates with prpl, she can argue against the lynch, and make it sound good. If she's scummates with Kelsier? She's STUCK. Because she'd already said that the no-show was scum-indicative for Kelsier and Vivax. When pushing Vivax into a noose didn't work, she failed to move on to Kelsier. But she sure as hell can't try to save him. 6) Based on #1 and #5, seeing Kelsier's flip actually helps me fine-tune my read on another player too! Regardless of his alignment. That is NOT a luxury you always get, in a Day 1 lynch. Now, I have already said I agree that with the benefit of Tubesock's flip, prpl's comment on how a push against Tubesock would likely turn out to be wrong, could be reflective of "TMI." prpl is a better kill now, than he was on Day 1. Kelsier was already a good kill on Day 1, and he is ALSO a better kill now, than he was on Day 1. Day 1 we have no indication of whether he's a scum player that is just avoiding the main thread, or if he's legitimately no-showed the game so far. If it's the second one, we may never see him at all. If it's the first one, we KNOW we will. He'll show up sometime in N1 and make some posts, and prevent the mod-kill. And...here he is! His return to the thread during N1 mathematically improves the odds that he is Scum. It also occurred to me during Day 1, that if there was exactly (and only) 1 mafia member in the Vivax/Kelsier/chaoser grouping, then that guy could easily have decided that he wasn't going to make a post in the main thread until both of the other 2 had shown up. As long as you're not the only one doing it, go ahead and ride it as long as you can. Vivax shows up, still no Kelsier. Alakaslam shows up...and it magically summons Kelsier, not even an hour later. A lurking Scum Kelsier is basically coerced to go ahead and enter the thread at that point (as opposed to waiting until later in the N1 phase) or we will begin to wonder why events have transpired as they have, instead of another way. | ||
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On March 09 2018 03:41 Vivax wrote: This is from your post where you reply to HF about DF. Technically the reason is that he is a type of player who is held at a higher standard regarding activity and post quality. lol, IF THAT'S TRUE, then I wish someone had actually said so, when I asked someone (ANYone) in the thread to back that notion. On March 09 2018 03:41 Vivax wrote: Me, HF and rsoultin all noticed something being off about him pretty quickly. Yet here you are asking a question that doesn't want an answer about whether he is lackluster compared to his other town games How is that a question that doesn't want an answer? Man, if I don't want an answer to that question, I can just NOT ask it. That would be REAL easy. Or I could have waited to post it until much later, and allowed less time for people to see and comment on it. I didn't. There was plenty of time for people to see and comment on it, and then for us to decide how/whether it should influence the notion of a DF lynch. It wasn't a question that doesn't want an answer. It was a question that didn't GET an answer. Vivax wrote: So either you are unbelievably stubborn and tend to think the opposite of the majority for no apparent reason, or you just make up your reads. Tending towards the latter but I'm also biased at this point :> If DF ever turns out to be scum, and you and I are both still alive, we can have a conversation about me forcing a townread on him against your alleged "majority" (which was actually like 3 people). If DF ever turns out to be town, I think that conversation is over. I can't really see any way to scumread me for: abandoning my original lynch target with 1 hour to go (who was Town) and defending the counterwagon (also town, in this hypothetical) and then leaving, and just crossing my fingers and hoping the noose doesn't fall onto one of my teammates. Working to keep DF out of the noose in that scenario couldn't possibly make less sense, especially once DF claims medic, which would've made it trivially easy to just go "oh, you're claiming medic? That makes you mathematically more likely to be scum now. Die." Boom, dead Town medic, and a BULLETPROOF alibi for me sticking him in the noose. On March 09 2018 03:41 Vivax wrote: Who would you vote to vig tonight? The kills I like are prpl and Kelsier. I maintain that I do not like the idea of having DF go off and heal a secret target of his choosing. I maintain that HF is actively damaging the Town's best interests, if he refuses to follow thread sentiment regarding his target. | ||
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On March 09 2018 04:25 darthfoley wrote: Here dude, lemme answer the question you need to write a master's thesis on: I would say i'm regarded as one of the stronger players as town THANKS, buddy! Wish you'd posted this during D1 instead (or that ANYone else had answered, when I asked for confirmation of the theory). Then yes, HF is right. You should have been the Day 1 lynch. Glad we got that cleared up. | ||
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On March 09 2018 04:43 darthfoley wrote: Lol, I find it hard to believe you can manage to write like 14 walls of text per hour yet fail to read some pretty clear posts from HF and Damdred and Vivax and rsoultin at least implying that my playstyle this game has been off meta. smh It appears that you don't even know how I ended up asking the question in the first place. You keep talking about what HF said, like as if that's not exactly the "theory" I was trying to get "confirmation" of from absolutely anyone else (and didn't get). Vivax's listed reasons for voting against you have nothing to do with your meta. In skimming his D1 posts about you just now, I don't notice anything that even indicates he has EVER seen you play before, as either allegiance. rsoul's comments about the weirdness of your entry to the thread do not speak to my question at all. I didn't remember that post from Damdred, having not ever seen it a 2nd time, given that I didn't re-read his filter, since he hasn't been here to talk to, nor has he really been discussed as a lynch target. Apparently everyone else either forgot about it too, or thought it didn't answer the question, since he only mentions your town play in regard to "tone." But anyway, like I said, I'm convinced now. Yes, you should have been the Day 1 lynch. But hopefully you're Town anyway, and will start to play like the guy you think matches your reputation. *wink, WINK* | ||
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On March 09 2018 05:06 prplhz wrote: I'm only up to date with page 22 and I've read something here and there but that's it. I'll try to do better tomorrow. I have no idea who is mafia. Catch up a little more, buddy, and you'll see that if you can't do better than that, there isn't gonna BE any tomorrow for you. | ||
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On March 09 2018 05:18 KelsierSC wrote: Can I just sneak a pass N1 and that way I can read and give you some good shit. The alternative is shitposting some bullshit after a quick read, which I will probably realise is bad , contradict myself and then become easy lynch bait Neat, neither of my preferred kills want to play yet! I'll make you and prpl an offer you can't refuse! I promise not to scumread you for anything you say during N1. Shitpost to your heart's content, and it won't hurt your standing in my eyes. Post something cool, and I'll want you to live. And if you don't, I'll want you to die (but that was already the case anyway.) You can only move up, or stay where you already were! What a deal! | ||
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On March 09 2018 05:43 MoosyDoosy wrote: I honestly don't know the specifics of the night stuff either but the medics should stack on one person imo Like who? | ||
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On March 09 2018 05:55 darthfoley wrote: Fact that no one is even trying to divert medicvig off of prplhz implies he's town. Meh Wouldn't necessarily be such a terrible thing, if it helps guide the noose on day 2. What do we learn from a prplhz townflip? Is that something we can use? Because given his activity level, no one could be too heartbroken to see him die and flip town. And I don't really care to be handing out free passes on the basis of "only on page 22, I'll play later." | ||
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If I die and prplhz flips town: Do NOT let AMG use "well n00bking was townreading me and we know HE was town" as an excuse to not pressure him on Day 2 and beyond. The mafia picking me as the kill reflects poorly on AMG. prpl flipping town reflects poorly on AMG. The Day 2 circumstances would be way different (in this scenario) than the circumstances under which I'm presently giving him the townlean. If I die and prplhz flips scum: I would take a long hard look at Moosy. His filter reads like he barely wants to acknowledge prpl is in this game, and I had to extract an answer from him about who to even use the N1 kill against. After abandoning the scumread on rsoul, he used damdred's absence as an excuse to not vote, and then seemed (from my own egoistic point of view, at least) to get in long discussions about things that weren't really central to what the game should be about right then. His threats to start a barrage of shitposts during N1 dried up as soon as Alakaslam began posting, so those threats may have involved a plan of action reliant upon Alakaslam's absence. I asked him what happened...no answer. If a townie had plans that got blown up, they can explain it. If a scum player has plans that got blown up...not so simple. In any scenario where I die, but prplhz DOESN'T: Someone will probably bring up the fact that there are multiple explanations for how this happened. And sure, they'll be right. But once again, look to the probabilities. The most likely explanation is that the mafia identified and roleblocked a medic, to save him, because he's on their team. The existence of other possibilities does not mean that isn't EXACTLY what happened. Do NOT just say "Well, there are other explanations" and then go about your usual scumhunting, like as if prpl's survival doesn't count for anything. It does count for something, and it should take a LOT for you to let him out of the frying pan. In any scenario where DF and I both die, and DF flips medic: Welp, guess Holyflare is virtually confirmed, as a legitimate Town medic. Put him at the top of your townreads, this is a guy you can trust. Then tell him to pull his head out of his ass and lead the town to victory, because if you lose, it's probably his fault, for not complying with instructions from the Town about who to use his action on. Feel like there was something else but I dont remember it now and Im outo f time cuz deadline | ||
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On March 09 2018 08:04 rsoultin wrote: I'm wondering if it may not be best to just mass claim with a dead RBer? Though I'm not 100% certain that's wise before a scum medic flip. Yeah, was just wondering the same thing. I will have to think on that some. Also will need to do some re-reading, based on flips. Laterz! | ||
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On March 09 2018 08:12 rsoultin wrote: It does make me wonder a bit if one of the people fairly townread is scum. I would have expected Viva/HF (and yes, I'm a prideful creature: me) to be the most likely targets. Noob less likely because of Viva. I almost did a spit-take when Vivax said something about expecting to be killed. If he's town, there's NO way they're eliminating him while he's hard-charging me. And if he's scum, they...still aren't killing him! :D I didn't especially think I would be killed either, but figured I should still put my thoughts up "in case of." | ||
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On March 09 2018 11:01 MoosyDoosy wrote: Me shitposting relies on one thing: Alakaslam's presence. Alakaslam not here? I no shitpost. Alakaslam here? I shitpost. And I'm not sure how you thought otherwise when I posted this along my hail of shitposts: Alright. I typed up that post in a serious rush, to get it finished before the deadline, and I tacked on the shitpost part without double-checking my memory on the order of your posts. The other things I didn't like about your filter still stand. But yes, you're right about this part. | ||
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On March 09 2018 15:34 rsoultin wrote: Yeah...like koshi has the excuse of Euro time, but I agree that slams absence is weird given how excited he seemed to be about playing this game. Well posting stuff like the dog .gif was before he would have received a role PM. He may have become...less excited after that, if he's on the scum team. Especially seeing that prplhz seemed headed for a medic overdose (a decision Alakaslam played no role in, btw). And if the Alakaslam slot had been on the team, that could help explain why prpl never came back to put up any fight. Alakaslam would still need to feign the excitement for a few posts after he arrives (and did) but then...yeah, 22 hours later, still nothing further. I don't *think* we're dealing with an Alakaslam/Kelsier/prpl scum team? But if that's what it was, you sure can't blame prpl for folding up the tent and going home. lol I guess you could say the same thing if you swap out one of those names with Damdred's, but that wasn't my original inclination. Anyway, looks like we have 2 in favor of the mass claim, and 0 against, so far. I'm not against it either. If anyone IS, I'll hear what they have to say, but I gave it some thought, and it seems fine to me. Like you mentioned, if we assume there's a counterclaim, the mass claim still keeps the scum from narrowing that group (and revealing the faker) by shooting medics. Which means we can keep performing overdose kills at Night. | ||
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On March 09 2018 17:06 Alakaslam wrote: Look at Noobking’s early filter, I was suspicious of this. ![[image loading]](http://pa1.narvii.com/6434/162c8f96ab87ea5a35c947db489a6ca4a02bb332_hq.gif) Come at me, bro. | ||
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On March 09 2018 17:40 Alakaslam wrote: I didn’t like AMG at all. On March 09 2018 17:40 Alakaslam wrote: And I also really liked Prp *blink, blink* Yeah, get some sleep. We'll see you tomorrow.... | ||
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On March 10 2018 04:46 Vivax wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Noobking I think I'd still lynch Kelsier first but this might make noob post. lol, nnnnahhhh, I don't think that's gonna work. I mean, getting words out of n00bKing is like pulling teeth! My skimming shows that the mass claim went off, so: On March 09 2018 08:01 Fecalfeast wrote: Good shit medics Don't mention it. Will read and respond to the rest off and on, over the next couple of hours. | ||
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On March 09 2018 18:21 rsoultin wrote: So yeah, I thought early that you were using your medic claim to get reactions, thus your scumread on tube. My impression of your town play is that you also like to game mafia night actions, so I thought that this made it slightly more likely that your claim came from town (especially if you were not medic). Didn't like how you refused to answer my question while talking around it. I came into thread all but decided that a town HF would not be deliberately antagonizing me because lately as town you've been quick to try to understand when I start getting agitated and try to diffuse it. Then I got distracted by Viva, and Lex and I had to leave. By the time I got back you'd answered my question without further pressure from me, so I let it go, and even townread you a bit more for it because, as I said, I feel it's a town-tell for you to try not to agitate me lately when something you say sets me off. So when I saw your post here at beginning of day I wasn't surprised. But now I'm wondering why a town HF bothers to say this. Perhaps you can enlighten me. Okay, I think I've read all of the back-and-forth between you and HF fairly closely now, and I don't see that he ever answered this question of why he led off Day 2 by saying he's not really a medic, if he didn't want the mass claim. Do you feel like he answered this? As far as the rest of the "to claim or not to claim" discussion between the two of you: I do think there was at least some validity to Holyflare's stated reasons for opposing the mass claim. I just felt that those reasons were not AS strong as the valid reasons in FAVOR of the mass claim, which is part of why I supported it. It may have been a "close call" but the reasons to do it outweighed the reasons not to, and then I myself eventually had a selfish reason to want the mass claim, because I made would *could* have been perceived by the mafia as a "blueslip" earlier in the phase. (It actually was NOT one, but as soon as I'd made the post, I noticed it might LOOK like one, so I'm glad we're doing the mass claim.) Obviously there's no denying that his resistance to the mass claim now does not line up with his pre-game musings. So instead of trying to say the thoughts mesh, he says he has just changed his mind. In your experience (and really, anyone can chime in on this) is Town HF someone that changes his mind about things regularly? If he's prone to flip-flopping on things like this, then the contradiction you've found may not be scum-indicative at all. | ||
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On March 09 2018 20:59 Vivax wrote: I'm considering lynching FF for TMI today. Be more specific. Because he seemed to know Tubesock was Town, or because he seemed to know prpl was scum? Or both? | ||
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On March 10 2018 04:14 darthfoley wrote: I did feel like n00bking placing all the blame for not lynching me D1 on other people not fulfilling his "what's DF's META!!?!?!" was oddly placed and seemed contrived Problem being that if *I* were scum and *you* weren't on the team, then I wouldn't need to make ANY excuse for not lynching you on Day 1 (contrived or otherwise) because I WOULD have lynched you on Day 1. lol As explained already, here: I can't really see any way to scumread me for: abandoning my original lynch target with 1 hour to go (who was Town) and defending the counterwagon (also town, in this hypothetical) and then leaving, and just crossing my fingers and hoping the noose doesn't fall onto one of my teammates. Working to keep DF out of the noose in that scenario couldn't possibly make less sense, especially once DF claims medic, which would've made it trivially easy to just go "oh, you're claiming medic? That makes you mathematically more likely to be scum now. Die." Boom, dead Town medic, and a BULLETPROOF alibi for me sticking him in the noose. If I'm scum and you're not, why am I keeping a town medic out of the noose, and risking the chance that the lynch is one of my teammates instead? That is never, ever, (ever) happening. | ||
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On March 10 2018 04:20 rsoultin wrote: In other points of interest, I do like discussing moosy because he doesn't have the steam id expect from a towny who got a scum flip and also thought it was 'really good' the amg kill because it eliminated a tinfoil theory. He also took a pussyfoot neutral stance to mass claiming. And like I've said, he didn't propose any N1 vig targets until I asked him directly. I've talked about how Moosy's filter mostly reads like he's disregarding prpl's existence. iirc Moosy has made one or more comments about having not played in a while, and he's not one of the people who have been playing on this site the longest. I don't know if he plays on other sites all the time like I do, but if not, he may not be very experienced, and I've found that oftentimes, inexperienced mafia players will just avoid main-thread interaction with their teammates. I think it's a decent association case, and would be interested to see how Moosy responds to vote pressure. Kelsier obviously still a good target as well, but I can't tell whether or not he *would* respond to vote pressure. | ||
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On March 10 2018 04:21 MoosyDoosy wrote: rsoultin what are you and holyflare fighting about again. Last time was darthfoley, is it still darthfoley or something else? Why don't you RTFT and find out? | ||
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On March 10 2018 08:59 Fecalfeast wrote: Imo unless we get a fifth medic claim we should ignore medic claim people because scum is basically forced to narrow one of 2 cells with nks. Or was that the plan all along Well we can't get a 5th medic claim now because Koshi made sure we wouldn't. Like, any scum team (even one with a Kelsier who isn't paying very good attention) would probably figure out that they can't both fakeclaim medic, and that exactly (and only) one of them should claim medic. But if there was even a ONE percent chance that Kelsier screws up and makes the 4th medic claim (which would have made 5 once I got here) then we should have given him the chance to make that mistake. Because then we would just kill all the medics and it would be mathematically impossible for scum to win. Koshi laid out how killing all the non-medics will now make it *almost* impossible for scum to win (we'd have to make wrong choices over and over) but he outright eliminated the chance that we could win for free. Now THAT is what "too scummy to be scum" ACTUALLY looks like, because Koshi made THE most Anti-Town post of the entire game. I have no interest in lynching him today, though we should probably try to prod him to participate more, so that we'll have more to look at from him if we don't nail scum right away, and need to consider him as a target by PoE. | ||
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On March 10 2018 09:23 rsoultin wrote: I think I need to add rereading eod to my to-do list. Cause moosy could have voted df as well and I think he was on tube. Almost certain. Yeah, I need to do that too. Unfortunately, that will mean actually re-reading the thread, and not just filters. :sadface: lol There's a point near EoD where Moosy enters and says he's catching up. I'll have to see if thread sentiment had already turned against Tubesock by that point or not, so that making the jump to DF may have looked weird. Otherwise it would take something like "Moosy literally didn't see DF's claim" or "Moosy didn't realize that DF's claim provides a free excuse to lynch him" and relying on stuff like that would weaken the association case. Dinner time now, though. For the moment, ##Vote: KelsierSC Do stuff. | ||
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On March 10 2018 09:48 n00bKing wrote: Yeah, I need to do that too. Unfortunately, that will mean actually re-reading the thread, and not just filters. :sadface: lol There's a point near EoD where Moosy enters and says he's catching up. I'll have to see if thread sentiment had already turned against Tubesock by that point or not, so that making the jump to DF may have looked weird. Otherwise it would take something like "Moosy literally didn't see DF's claim" or "Moosy didn't realize that DF's claim provides a free excuse to lynch him" and relying on stuff like that would weaken the association case. So did you do that re-reading, rsoul? It looks inconclusive to me. He says that he's down for "shenannies" onto DF (which is the lynch he wants, if he's scum and DF isn't) but says that tubesock is still scummiest (which might be fine to say, even if Tubesock isn't the lynch he wants, because he's one of only 2 votes there at the time). But within just a few posts, there are suddenly two swaps TO Tubesock, and that would then make it tougher for Moosy to justify jumping to DF. Overall, I would say the voting record works slightly in Moosy's favor IF I knew for sure that DF is Town. But since I don't, I would mostly throw this evidence out. Which means the association case against him takes precedence. You seeing anything different? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 10 2018 18:57 MoosyDoosy wrote: meh not much to get from noobking's last couple posts. + Show Spoiler + On March 10 2018 09:17 n00bKing wrote: And like I've said, he didn't propose any N1 vig targets until I asked him directly. I've talked about how Moosy's filter mostly reads like he's disregarding prpl's existence. iirc Moosy has made one or more comments about having not played in a while, and he's not one of the people who have been playing on this site the longest. I don't know if he plays on other sites all the time like I do, but if not, he may not be very experienced, and I've found that oftentimes, inexperienced mafia players will just avoid main-thread interaction with their teammates. I think it's a decent association case, and would be interested to see how Moosy responds to vote pressure. Kelsier obviously still a good target as well, but I can't tell whether or not he *would* respond to vote pressure. On March 10 2018 09:48 n00bKing wrote: Yeah, I need to do that too. Unfortunately, that will mean actually re-reading the thread, and not just filters. :sadface: lol There's a point near EoD where Moosy enters and says he's catching up. I'll have to see if thread sentiment had already turned against Tubesock by that point or not, so that making the jump to DF may have looked weird. Otherwise it would take something like "Moosy literally didn't see DF's claim" or "Moosy didn't realize that DF's claim provides a free excuse to lynch him" and relying on stuff like that would weaken the association case. Dinner time now, though. For the moment, ##Vote: KelsierSC Do stuff. So......you trying to push me or not? This reads like you're trying to scum read me but I don't feel pressure from your posts. What's your goal here? Oh, you don't understand what my goal is? I'm super-shocked! Your filter is 8 pages of you not understanding things. My post said I needed to re-read. I don't expect you to feel a bunch of pressure from me saying I need to re-read, while my vote is on someone else. But yeah, I'm "trying to scumread you." prpl flipping red makes you a high candidate to be on that team. Are you anxious to feel more pressure from my posts? What's the matter, don't especially feel like playing anymore after prpl crashed and burned, but your pride won't let you just scoop, either? Here's an idea....how about you put your vote on Kelsier too, and help me try to spur him into action. Then if he makes a few good posts, maybe the Noose ends up on you today instead, and you get put out of your misery a littler sooner. How's that sound? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 10 2018 20:29 Holyflare wrote: Why is noobking trying to not figure out which medic is fake? Who said I'm not figuring out which medic is fake? But I don't think I could get any of the medics lynched today, even if I told everyone I was 100% sure which one is the fake. And there'll be more information about which one is the fake after today's flip. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 10 2018 19:15 rsoultin wrote: Already did and I honestly don't care anymore. Maybe if all the scummier people end up being town. Namely his opinion pre-game was honest by default, so he should still have it. And I agree with him that the Amg kill seems strange if both he and viva are also town. It should have been one of us in my mind. But with one scum out of df/ff/noob/viva and the fact that it remains technically possible that he did suddenly change his mind despite a mass claim obviously being the best play, well...at the very least I can't see myself lynching him over ksc. So I'll let it go for now and give hf the benefit of the doubt. Well we appear to mostly just be killing time here, at the moment. So even if you have no designs on getting HF lynched today, you can still talk more about him, if there's anything left you haven't said already. I'm not saying your points don't make sense, I just don't see them as being all that strong. 1) His pre-game opinion was honest, so deviating from it in-game feels odd 2) If he and Vivax are both Town, you think one of the three of you should have been the NK 3) He was mean to you in this game, and he does that more when he's scum than while he's town. (I couldn't put much stock in this one, even if I were completely sure you were town) Is that about the extent of it? | ||
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n00bKing
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n00bKing
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On March 10 2018 21:12 Holyflare wrote: The things rsoul has pushed this game make me so wary of her she keeps dropping down my list: 1) Town reading prplhz on nothing 2) Pushing amg all day 1 and then dropping it 3) Pushing me today despite it not making any sense 4) Hard defending df because of some tiny town read he gave her Only things going for her: 1) Getting people to mass claim If getting people to mass claim is a point in her favor, then are you saying that yes, we should count your resistance as a strike against you? Koshi told everyone to "do the math" and see that the mass claim is a net positive. Should we think that failing to have done the math is randomly more forgivable for HF than for others? On March 10 2018 21:14 Holyflare wrote: I believe vivax and ff are the true medics. I think vivax should heal df and ff heal noob. The real medic of noob and df should heal the other one. Easy free mafia nk. I see a few people have commented on this plan of action. Anyone else have thoughts on it? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 10 2018 21:16 Holyflare wrote: Noobking, who did you heal last night? Really? + Show Spoiler + ....really? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 10 2018 21:19 rsoultin wrote: Namely points 2 and 4 are blatantly untrue, and the third is just wrong. 2 and 4 are at least major exaggerations. Is Town HF prone to using a bunch of hyperbole to try and get people to come around to his way of thinking, even if it means he's not completely telling the truth anymore? Also, I don't think anyone answered when I asked if Town HF is prone to flip-flopping on things, which would make it less suspicious that he didn't follow his pre-game thoughts regarding the mass claim. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 10 2018 21:33 Holyflare wrote: Point 2 is not blatantly untrue, your push on AMG I felt was not good at all and based off of really weak points. Sure, it wasn't ALL day one but it was the latter half of it and it felt really odd to come from you as a push because it applied to so many other people and was extrapolated nonsense based on a push for the plural of a word. Seems silly to me. Point 4 is not untrue. At every point I have pushed df you have said no, not lynching him and referenced his tone being town and that he is town because of his town read on you. I posted a case and YOU defended him from it. That is hard defending. Point 1 is definitely true. Point 3 multiple people have told you it doesn't make sense. It's also incongruent with your entire thought process. You have posted multiple times that I'm not mafia over one of the medic claims and afkers now BUT STILL TRY AND PUSH IT LIKE IT'S TRUE. It's ridiculous and amounts to setting up for the future imo because you still try and say it like it's a point while simultaneously referencing that I might not actually be mafia. You either believe it and I'm mafia or you retract it because you admit it's not a strong point. There is absolutely no in between with this. The bolded is a false dichotomy and you should know better. "Try to make you today's lynch" and "decide there's no case against you" are not the only options of a town rsoul. She can vote against Kelsier while discussing whether she thinks you'd be where to look next should Kelsier flip town just like I've voted against Kelsier while discussing whether I think Moosy should be the next kill should Kelsier flip town. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 10 2018 22:42 rsoultin wrote: Hm, I think I'd rather vote Kelsier because I have no clue what the point of his posts even are if he's town. Particularly when he said he didn't know what I was talking about. So he's reading but not reading? I just don't want to auto and find out he just sucks lol >< Then again, we've got a ton of time to work things out now, so there's that. Also, I think a better way of using our 'four' medics is to have two vig targets tonight outside the medic pool with two clearly assigned to one target, and two to another. Then scum has to play ball or reveal which pairing has the fake claim. By "better way" do you mean better than having all 4 medics on the same target? Or just better than HF's suggestion to have medics shoot into each other? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 10 2018 22:46 Koshi wrote: I think DF should have died if he wasn't a real medic. (from what I read after I replaced). Died how? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 05:15 Alakaslam wrote: See you always have passive voice sson not active voice As town you wanna get shot done As scum you wanna go with dat flow So since you keep asking “wat everyone think of this?” I am like “textbook scum m8” If you're Town, then I think all you're showing here is that I understand what makes for good play in these games, and you don't. I raise discussion points and ask what people think of them, to see who falls where. And if something that SHOULD have been a discussion point was mentioned by someone else, but people AREN'T talking about, then I will call attention to it, and say "wat everyone think of this?" to see who falls where. If everyone had just ANSWERED all of my questions every time I said "wat everyone think of this?" then we probably would have had the goddamn game solved, and the scum team may have even already scooped by now. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 05:17 Holyflare wrote: Yes, absolutely. Yes, absolutely to what? Yes, you're admitting it's absolutely a strike against you that you opposed the mass claim? Or yes, we absolutely should randomly give HF more forgiveness than average, for failing to "do the math"? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 05:18 Holyflare wrote: Are you incapable of independent thoughts or something? About the 4th time you've made posts like this to get nothing out of it. If you were town, you would absolutely see what is happening. If I EVER "get nothing" out of making posts like that, it won't be MY fault. Now shut up and let people answer | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 05:26 Holyflare wrote: It is absolutely not a false dichotomy. I have either changed my mind from the pre-game as town or I am pushing it as a mafia agenda. There is no in between. And you've followed up your false dichotomy fallacy with a straw man fallacy. You're on a roll. I didn't say there's an in-between you being town or mafia, I said there's an in-between her thinking it's scummy and trying to get you lynched for it, vs her deciding it's not scummy. She can think it's scummy, ask what other people think about it (as she has), then file it away, and lynch someone else. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 05:57 Holyflare wrote: No, if it is scummy then I am mafia. If I am town it is NOT scummy. lol, that's not your decision to make. | ||
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On March 11 2018 06:03 rsoultin wrote: He's probably not scum and I'm not getting lynched. And KSC is probably just mafia here. That or he's really enjoying being mislynched as town? So I don't see the point in defending me from HF, noob. I'm a big girl. Can't help it, I'm a chauvinist! But yeah, I'm gonna step away for a bit, before I go berserk. I'll be back before the phase ends. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 06:10 Holyflare wrote: This dude is genuinely angry lol? A little, yeah? It's pretty damn frustrating to have you and Alakaslam seemingly unable to understand the BASIC principles of scumhunting behind the style of questioning I've repeatedly used in this game, especially when at least one of you has to be town. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 06:21 Holyflare wrote: At no point has he even tried to decipher which of the other three medics are mafia when that should be the medic's main priority False. A medic's main priority is to decipher which of the NON-medics are mafia. The main priority of EVERY town player is to decipher which of the NON-medics are mafia. On March 11 2018 06:23 Holyflare wrote: Now, when it came to the next day and people actually told noobking that my df meta was correct he turned to say "Oh, you should absolutely be the lynch" but now that the mass claim has happened he is absurdly quiet about lynching into any of the medics. The first part is false. I didn't say he should be the lynch, I said he should have BEEN the lynch. Seeing flips can change things. That's how "new information" works. *eyeroll* As to the second part, there is nothing absurd about me being quiet about lynching into any of the medics, because I'm not BRAIN-DEAD enough to suggest lynching into the medics. First you oppose the mass claim, even though it favors the Town win condition, and then you fail to understand that the whole benefit of the mass claim was to give us an almost FAILSAFE path to victory, through lynching into the NON-medics. If you're Town, you're repeatedly making it tougher for your own team to win the game. And if you're scum, you're being LLLAZY, because if you actually stopped to think your posts through, you'd see how much they contradict common sense. On March 11 2018 06:23 Holyflare wrote: To add to that now he's just asking meek questions about rsoultin's posts towards me that would have no follow up. lol, it's weird then, how my questions to rsoul kept repeatedly having me "follow up" with additional conversation about the answers. On March 11 2018 06:23 Holyflare wrote: He's angry that I am posting hyperbole and incorrect information while rsoul calls me mafia but doesn't equate that to me being mafia since that is what mafia surely do. It is what mafia surely do. And you can surely be mafia. But there were 2 other good lynch targets today, and your posting didn't become increasingly scummy until late enough in the day that I don't believe it would still be possible to get you in the noose at this point. If Kelsier flips town, I will be explaining to everyone what makes your Day 2 posting so scummy. But I'm not going to bother with it for now, because if Kelsier flips Red, it doesn't matter what all of the Mafia motivations behind your posts can be, because you'll be town even DESPITE the way you've behaved. So I'm really hoping Kelsier flips red, because it'll save me a lot of work, and I can wait until post-game to tell you why your reasoning is so awful. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 07:29 Holyflare wrote: What alignment of players tries to manipulate the thread to annoy people and divert attention away from things? Why are you not just attributing that alignment to us? Pretty sure I just explained that, before you asked. There are 2 of you doing it, and at least one of you has to be Town. Alakaslam seems more the type to just not have any idea what he's talking about than you, so it looks worse for you than him, but the fact that there are 2 of you doing it and at least one of you has to be Town, means it necessarily has to be a mistake that a town player can make. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 07:58 MoosyDoosy wrote: So your mafia team is me and holyflare right? No, Moosy. No, my mafia team is not you and Holyflare. But with Kelsier flipping town, my mafia team now definitely has you OR Holyflare, and you're going to be the only targets I will entertain for the medics to kill tonight. And if Holyflare can provide the right answers to my questions...it'll just be you. NO ONE buy into this garbage where HF says he's already figured out the non-medic mafia and it's Koshi. We should NOT kill Koshi. Damdred felt town to me, Koshi even moreso. By the way, Moosy, I've seen you play both allegiances before, and this right here: On March 11 2018 06:31 MoosyDoosy wrote: Also let's calm down with the insults and flinging dirt at each other people. Its just a gaem at the end of the day whether people dont play optimally or not. is NOT what I remember from Town Moosy. No one flings dirt and insults like Town Moosy. This "can't we all just get along?" stuff is NOT your Town meta. So I can add a meta read against you to the association case against you. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 08:08 rsoultin wrote: The way I see it, we vig shot into one of Me HF Koshi Moosy Slam Yeah, of course. We vig shot into the non-medics for all of the same reasons we lynch into the non-medics. It's the same thing. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 10 2018 21:14 Holyflare wrote: I believe vivax and ff are the true medics. I think vivax should heal df and ff heal noob. The real medic of noob and df should heal the other one. Easy free mafia nk. Please summarize the information you gained from gauging reactions to this post. Or did you not gain any information from those reactions and it didn't work? Or do you truly believe this is the best course of action? And no more gamesmanship, please. We don't need fancy schemes to win this game. ABC, paint-by-numbers town play WILL succeed. So if you're Town, please just tell the honest truth here, even if you think it would be more "fun" or "interesting" to do things another way. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 08:18 MoosyDoosy wrote: That's because I'm r e f o r m e d dude. After thinking about all the times I got mad during this game I've decided it's not worth it. It's also why I'm trying to troll a little less because people got mad over it and I don't want to ruin people's days that way. It sucks to try and play the game and have to deal with someone's shit. And did you troll just as much, and ruin people's day, in games where you were mafia? Before you were "reformed?" Wait, hold up, I know EXACTLY the right thing to do here. Pay attention, Alakaslam, because the BEST play to make here is for me to ask.... "wat everyone else think?" Has Town Moosy been reformed, and quit trolling in his town games? Did Scum Moosy troll just like Town Moosy, before he was "reformed" or no? And instead, he was more controlled/polite? | ||
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![[image loading]](http://www.catswhocode.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/pure-css3-progress-bar.jpg) | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 08:35 rsoultin wrote: I don't think he's played in awhile. But you can find out just by looking in his profile -shrugs- I'm familiar with 4 or 5 of his games, but didn't want to have to go trudging through others, if there had been any sort of agreement (even just 2 players would have been meaningful, since he can't have 2 scummates left) about "yes, it's true, Town Moosy has reformed and is not as trolly and inflammatory as he used to be" or "no, he was still like that, even in the most recent of his town games." Feels like you and I have had to do like 70% of the heavy lifting in this game, so it wouldn't been nice to get a hand with something, and be able to skip expanding the meta read. But oh well. I did look into some of the later games. Conclusions forthcoming shortly. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 09:56 darthfoley wrote: Rereading this, it feels very paranoid and self aware. Vivax asks him a simple question "why KSC > Prplhz" with no real agenda, and n00bking preemptively defends agaainst people making a "big deal" out of it. That wasn't a simple question with no real agenda. He quickly followed that post by voting against me, and then brought it up again as a reason to kill me, later. It wasn't an idle inquiry that I overreacted to, it was an attack. If I had been "paranoid" I would have just given the longer explanation immediately, instead of saying I would explain further if asked to. If people went and looked at my prior thoughts on no-shows vs. low-activity players and said "yeah, okay, that does make sense" (which is what I expected, since my swap from Tubesock to Kelsier was a pretty straightforward move) then I wouldn't have wasted any more time on it. Since someone did make a big deal out of it, I went ahead and gave the longer explanation. On March 11 2018 09:56 darthfoley wrote: For tonight, i'm fine vigi healing Slam. No likey. I understand you saying he'll be tough to read, but I don't think he's presently any scummier than the baseline. The kill should be either Moosy or HF, as I'll explain. | ||
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n00bKing
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The association case tying Moosy to prpl I think has been covered pretty well. I've also mentioned that I didn't like how he used Damdred's absence as an excuse to not vote through much of D1, after having to abandon his scumread on rsoul, and that I didn't like how he never put forth a vig target for N1 until I had to directly ask him for it. It's also been mentioned that he took no position on whether to mass claim. As for the meta read: I've said that in the games I've seen Town Moosy, he would never have said anything like this: On March 11 2018 06:31 MoosyDoosy wrote: Also let's calm down with the insults and flinging dirt at each other people. Its just a gaem at the end of the day whether people dont play optimally or not. because he was himself the worst offender. He's been mod-killed (as town) for going too far with insults against other players. He claims he's been reformed. But I think it's significant that scum Moosy never *needed* to be reformed. Scum Moosy already exhibited the "kumbaya" mentality seen in the post I just quoted. When I look back at the last time I saw him play scum, I don't even have to get past the 2nd page to see him starting telling people to "calm down" and asking players that he's townreading to not get into fights with each other. If Moosy has become more serious-minded and respectful in his more recent town games, there's some subtlety in how far the shift went. He still claimed Mafia, in his last 3 town games. The most recent time he was lynched as town, he responded to the pressure by calling the posts of the other players stupid and ridiculous, and telling multiple players they fail at reading comprehension. Ever the good teammate, he says that if they expect him to care about the game, those expectations are dumb. And that he does what he wants, whether they like it or not. Yes, he looks somewhat reformed, compared with when I saw him ask another player for their address so he could show up at their home and kill them. But the Town Moosy I just went and read right now still looks more sardonic than the Moosy I saw when I watched him play scum, and the Moosy who posted the above quote. These games are still quite a while ago, so it's possible that he was "reformed" after that...but there's no way for us to verify it. We'd just be taking his word for it. And his N2 is not off to a great start, as he immediately offers the anti-town suggestion of taking a vig shot into the medic pool. If Moosy is the Mafioso, I think the Mafia Medic would be darthfoley. I've tried to reason out why Moosy (who we know was here at EoD) would not have just shoved DF into the noose, if he's a town medic. And I put forth theories like "maybe Moosy just literally didn't see the medic claim" or "maybe Moosy just didn't realize that the medic claim gives him a free pass to lynch DF." But no explanation is needed, if DF just....isn't a town medic, and is the mafia medic instead. We then don't need any help figuring out the motivation behind posts like: On March 08 2018 07:45 MoosyDoosy wrote: I'm not quite sure if I see what Holyflare is seeing about darthfoley. or On March 08 2018 07:47 MoosyDoosy wrote: I'm down with shenannies onto prp, darth. Preferred is Tube. I still don't see how he isn't scummy. He'll lynch either of his teammates if he has to, but would prefer not to. Even just referring to a lynch of prpl or DF as "shenannies" could be meant to influence people into thinking (consciously or otherwise) that a lynch on either of those players represents a NON-logical choice. Meanwhile, DF puts a vote on prpl, since they would rather lose prpl than DF if it comes down to it, since prpl wasn't playing. Things are set up so that both of them can try to get at least a *little* bit of credit out of it, if prpl eats the Noose. I would NOT normally expect scum to resort to bussing on Day 1, but prpl's inactivity kept this from being "normal" circumstances. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 11 2018 13:49 MoosyDoosy wrote: Noobking you are the last person i would also expect to devote a significant portion of their argument against a player to meta. Damdred? Sure. Rsoultin? Probably. You? Hmmmmm I've played with (and/or read games involving) several of the people in this game before. But probably most, with you. I hadn't planned to use a meta argument in this game, but if I decide there's one to be made? It would be a mistake to not at least bring it up. If people discount my meta read, that's their choice. But at least I've given them the choice, instead of not telling everyone what I thought I saw. | ||
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On March 11 2018 13:55 MoosyDoosy wrote: Also if ur an expert on my meta you should know that I do use a person I read as town or someone I'm trying to get a better grasp on by ping ponging stuff off of them. Pretty sure I've done that in all my town games. The fact that you seem to scumread me for doing this with damdred while simultaneously being an expert on my meta otherwise is a real thonker. I wouldn't think it's scum-indicative at all, for you to ping-pong stuff off of Damdred. It's only suspicious that when you couldn't ping-pong stuff off of him, you chose to do NOTHING, for so long. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 11 2018 13:58 MoosyDoosy wrote: Honestly i still feel no pressure from you dude. Carry on I guess. Cool bro. If I put the needle in your throat tonight, I'll double-check and see if you "felt" that. | ||
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n00bKing
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If the Mafiosa is Holyflare, his partner is not DF, but instead either Vivax or FF. Fake-claimed medic as mafiosa, but then rescinded the claim at the start of Day 2 for NO...REASON. The fake claim can continue to have value if he's town. There would be no way for the scum team to know that the claim had been fake, because instead of saying "I'm not a medic" he could just say "I actually targeted prpl after all, I just wanted them to think I wouldn't." There's scum motivation to rescind the fake-claim though, if he's afraid of the mass claim going down, and thinks that switching his claim to VT *before* the mass claim will be less likely to get him lynched than not switching his claim to VT *until* the mass claim. He was asked why he rescinded the claim at the start of day 2, and I didn't see an answer. I brought it back up again, and still didn't see an answer. Because there is NO reason for Town HF to admit it was a fake claim in that spot. It sabotages his OWN play, if he's town. Throughout the entire game, he shows a pattern of not answering to simple and direct questions. If he's town, why is he not cooperating with people to try and solve the game, and instead making people like rsoul and myself have to keep repeating the same (unanswered) questions? He has also exhibited a pattern of playing AGAINST the Town's win condition. The mass claim was pro-Town, and he opposed it, even though his pre-game thoughts would indicate he understood how difficult a place the mass claim puts Scum into, and that the only way Scum could pull out an upset win in this game is with carefully considered fake claims. Now he says he changed his mind, but it's not good that he changed his mind to the anti-Town choice. He followed that up by playing against the Town's win condition again, when suggesting that the Day 2 lynch be one of the medic claims (me) instead of one of the VT claims, even though the whole point of the mass claim was to put us in a situation where we almost cannot lose, if we just plow our way through the VT claims. Koshi had already outlined this reality, before HF continued to go against it anyway. He followed that up by playing against the Town's win condition a third time, when suggesting that we take vig shots into the medic pool tonight, instead of into the VT pool, when again, the benefit of the mass claim is that we win by finding the scum in the VT claims. His excuse for all this anti-town behavior? He'd rather have fun, than play optimally. I'm not even exaggerating, that's actually what he said: On March 11 2018 06:21 Holyflare wrote: I would much rather have fun and lynch mafia then trying to play optimally and rely on some shit game mechanics to win There are no bonus points for making the game harder and then still managing to win anyway. If you were Town, we should have (EVENTUALLY) been able to get you to STOP SERVING THE MAFIA AGENDA. But we haven't. In case the shot ends up going into the VTs, he wants to make sure it doesn't hit him. Ideally, it wouldn't hit Moosy, either, so that Moosy can be the Day 3 lynch. (If Moosy is killed by medics tonight and flips Green, HF knows he's next in the Noose. He's gotta hope someone else gets killed by the medics, so that Moosy will be lynched Day 3.) To that end, he says he's already figured out who the Mafiosa is: Koshi. And also says: On March 11 2018 09:43 Holyflare wrote: I don't think moosy is mafia at all to be fair. HF has used terms like "honestly" and "to be honest" a lot in this game, which studies have shown are used by people more often while they are lying than when they aren't. "to be fair" is not in the same category, but it's strange word choice, in my opinion, for the point he's making. It seems like people think HF is a pretty bright guy, but I've identified (and pointed out) the use of multiple logical fallacies, in his posts. He has also seized on little bits of nothing, and then tried to balloon them up to be much more than they really were. The "scumslip" where Tubesock believes HF's medic claim is only *barely* alignment-indicative at all. It was not as strong as the arguments that I used (and that AMG seconded) to scumread Tubesock. HF repeatedly brings up that I'm not making "find the fake medic" my primary focus, like as if that's a big deal. It SHOULDN'T be my primary focus. Brings up that I was the last medic to claim. And? That's not "barely" alignment-indicative, instead it literally means nothing. Once the mass claim begins, the fake claim is just as likely to be the first one as the last one. The crown jewel is probably this post: On March 10 2018 21:14 Holyflare wrote: I believe vivax and ff are the true medics. I think vivax should heal df and ff heal noob. The real medic of noob and df should heal the other one. Easy free mafia nk. This would be so outlandishly dangerous for Town that I thought he might just be looking to see reactions to it. Which is why I did not respond to it for the entire rest of the Day 2 phase, except to say that I would like to see more people comment on what they thought of it (so that *I* could watch for reactions too. This is what is behind ALL of the instances where I pose or bump questions, for everyone to answer. Watch how people react to the question, and make them take a position. This is how scumhunting works. You don't catch people in contradictions later, if you can't make them react to anything.) If Kelsier flips Red, I don't have to worry about any naughty motivations behind HF suggesting this, but after Kelsier flips Town, and we're in the Night Phase, I go back to HF and ask him what he gained from watching reactions to his suggestion. Or if it didn't work, and he gained nothing. Or if he actually thinks that shooting into the medics is what we should do. I tell him I need an honest answer, no more games. He says he'd rather take the shorter path to the end of the game, which tells me that yes, he legitimately wants to use the idea. And the idea makes good sense...as long as he's scum. If DF and I are suspicious of each other enough to follow the plan, we turn in heals on each other, as suggested. Whichever of FF/Vivax is the other town medic also turns in a heal on one of us. Killing that town medic. Whichever of FF/Vivax is the mafia medic turns in a heal on the OTHER one of us, killing THAT town medic. And the mafia uses their night kill to eliminate one of the VTs. Poof, THREE town deaths in the same night, including two medics (myself and DF), meaning we lose the ability to take vig shots anymore. The sole remaining medic will be paralyzed, because if he turns in a heal on the following night, he's just as likely to accidentally kill his target (when the mafia medic targets the same player) as save his target. No way to be sure which VT the mafia are killing and which one they are targeting to heal. Night 2 is 7-2. Day 3 would be 4-2. Which means....lynch wrong, and you may never see Day 4, and the Town cannot No Lynch in this ruleset. But let's say the Town DOES lynch correctly on Day 4, putting HF in the noose, for causing the deaths of 3 Town players in one night. 4-1. But the NK would make it 3-1, and you AGAIN cannot lynch wrong, when choosing between Vivax and FecalFeast on the final day. That is what HF's suggestion gets you: The opportunity to go from a massive 7-2 advantage right now, to having to lynch correctly twice in a row to stave off a mafia victory. | ||
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On March 11 2018 10:04 MoosyDoosy wrote: Is there anything anyone wants me to look into? I've shared all my thoughts so I'm down with answering questions people have on my reads. Yeah, I have a question about your reads. Who is the VT scum? The other vanilla claims are: Slam, HF, rsoul and Koshi. Who should get shot tonight? I don't feel like you're interacting with any of them like as if they are scumreads. Does your own PoE tell you that the VT scummer is you? | ||
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On March 11 2018 10:23 Koshi wrote: Moosy looks town. Cuz? | ||
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On March 11 2018 15:40 Alakaslam wrote: I thought HF was a medic claim I am so confused to all Hell He claimed medic Day 1. Kicked off Day 2 by saying it hadn't been true. | ||
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On March 11 2018 16:17 rsoultin wrote: As for hf...I'm just not sure. Part of me wants very much to string him up just because I'd hate myself if he played this obviously scumsided as scum and still we lost to him. Well...yeah, let's NOT make that our basis for killing him. lol On March 11 2018 16:21 rsoultin wrote: I do like your point about rescinding the medic claim early though because that still makes no sense to me. Fake-claiming as town to fuck with mafia is entirely within his town wheel house, though. Yes, I don't doubt that at all. It's not the fake claim that's weird, it's the throwing it aside for no (town-motivated) reason that I can come up with. I listed 3 different occasions where he acted against the Town agenda, but on this 4th point, a town HF wouldn't just be going against the Town's best-interests because he thought he had his own plan instead. Rather, he'd actually be acting against his *own* plan. | ||
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On March 11 2018 18:56 rsoultin wrote: Also not sure what you meant by DF should have died if he wasn't real medic? Can you lay that out for me? Yeah, I think I asked Koshi that question earlier, and I don't remember an answer. Might have been a typo or something, because it's just such a weird statement. | ||
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On March 11 2018 19:42 Holyflare wrote: The fake claim either wasted a mafia medic or rb on myself or df. Nice try, but if you were Town, your fake claim accomplished nothing at all on Night 1. It may have accomplished something later...if you hadn't suddenly told everyone it was fake. But it did nothing on Night 1. It doesn't make any difference who the mafia targeted with either of those roles. The course of action I laid out made both of the mafia roles irrelevant, remember? Vivax suggested having DF heal a secret target of his choosing, while the other 2 medics picked a target to kill. THEN the mafia roles would matter. But since I shut his idea down and we all targeted prpl, the mafia roles were literally helpless. The fake medic claim could only have helped later. On March 11 2018 19:42 Holyflare wrote: Now about me rescinding the claim? Why would I keep it up? There's no benefit to weaving a lie the entire day 2. If I say I was still medic that healed df then that means he's likely mafia when it turns out he might not be. It also grossly misleads people. Waste of time. More info is way better than making people waste time assuming wrong scenarios. If I say I healed prplhz then they'll ask why I was still not pushing df. Again, waste of time. Yes, if you say you're a medic that healed DF then you would need to lead a push on him under false pretenses. So you don't say that. This is why what you *would* say is that you actually healed prpl too. You say that if you told us that, people will ask why you weren't still pushing DF...how does that change any by you saying you weren't really a medic? The medic claim being fake doesn't explain why you would stop pushing DF. Being a real medic or fake medic shouldn't affect your read on him at all. So no, this is not a legitimate reason to start off Day 2 by saying the fake was claim, if you were town. There are only scum motivations to do it. | ||
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On March 11 2018 19:49 Holyflare wrote: Vivax and ff heal noob and df. Df and noob heal each other. If df and noob are both medics then mafia cover for the non-medic by healing df or noob and both die. Mafia also have a nk and kill either into the non-medic pool or the medic pool. Killing into the medic pool guarantees mafia. Non medic pool gives us 50/50. On March 11 2018 19:49 Holyflare wrote: That is if they are both medics. lol, almost forgot you're not supposed to know that DF and I are both true medics? On March 11 2018 19:50 Holyflare wrote: We have a 50/50 shot of killing or finding mafia in the medics tonight. By risking a night where 3 Town players die in a single night, and the Town must lynch correctly 2 days in a row to avoid losing. Instead of just following the comparatively easy-peasy path to victory we earned with the mass claim. If you aren't scum, why do you keep looking for things we can do that will give the mafia a fighting chance? | ||
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On March 11 2018 20:19 Holyflare wrote: It also DOES change my read on df. If DF is town then I fully believe mafia would think I'm healing him and waste their medic heal on him as a chance to get two night kills. If DF is a town medic then they think I'm also a town medic and instead of wasting their NK on DF for guaranteed medic kills they use their NK on AMG and try and get two kills in one since that's their only option. If I did not say that I was healing df and he was a town medic then they nk him and we're down a medic for later in the game with no other nk info and we're still in the same mass claim situation with a mafia fake claiming. There's no way for you to know whether "they think you're also a town medic" in that scenario. But that doesn't even matter. There's nothing stopping them from just killing DF if that's what they want to do. "That's their only option?" No it's not. If DF is a true town medic, then even if they believe you are one too, but aren't sure whether you're telling the truth about healing him, they can just RB you and kill him anyway. There's no way for your fake claim to keep them from killing any player they want (including the revealed medic), and there was no way for their roles to keep US from killing whoever WE want. | ||
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On March 11 2018 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Two kills for the price of one is attractive, noob. It means a quicker end. I'd take that risk as scum. Lotta room between what you would choose to do, and saying "it was their only option." If DF is town and they wanted to make sure he died, they could have. But if HF is on that scum team, then making DF the night-kill undoes all of HF's work to get him lynched and hurts his credibility to boot. On March 11 2018 20:35 rsoultin wrote: What makes it impossible for what hf is saying to be true? It isn't "impossible" or I would be saying he's dead-lock caught scum. But if you want to know why I don't believe him, you only need to go look at the case I posted against him again. | ||
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On March 11 2018 20:47 rsoultin wrote: Fair, I just don't think that quibbling over terminology is helpful. Either in clarifying a read or pushing your target. Which is perhaps hypocritical cause I have the same problem myself, just saying. Don't think this argument is going anywhere. Sometimes terminology matters, sometimes it doesn't. I've definitely seen scum before that would speak in "absolutes" that really weren't, and notice it as a pattern of those players' scum games. Holyflare isn't one of those players, so I don't know for sure. But it's at least something that town *ideally* would not do. And saying that scum could not have killed a town DF is as objectively false as when he tried to tell me that I moved off of Tubesock while he was the leading wagon. It's just not true, and it looks like "lazy scum" to me. (An investigative town player can at least read a damn vote count. Lazy scum may not bother.) Then he talks about Vivax being the first medic claim and me being the last, like as if there's anything remotely alignment-indicative about it. He's smarter than that, right? So why is it still getting posted? Looks like lazy scum to me. Where are his salient posts about why Koshi is scum, instead of just saying "he replaced in and posted mechanics. Cool. He's mafia." I'll say this much, though: If HF is scum, then you'll definitely be right that "this argument isn't going anywhere." | ||
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On March 11 2018 19:42 MoosyDoosy wrote: Slam rsoul and holy are likely town. Im not voting slam probs ever because I want to townread him and this looks like town Slam anyway. Rsoul is likely town because you're pocketing her and other stuff. Holy could be mafia but his thought process lines with mine so I doubt hes scum. So koshi would be my vote here. There is tinfoil where maybe rsoul is pocketing you and her goddawful tunnel on town hf and bad townread on prpl or hf is mafia pocketing me but meh. HF pocketing you isn't "tinfoil." After all your talk about rsoul's "goddawful tunnel" on him, then if you're the town player, it means you're so deep in his pocket you probably just live there now. | ||
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On March 11 2018 21:14 Holyflare wrote: This is the exact same argument you made for DF being town on d1 but now it makes me mafia. How do you pick and choose when lazy posts become alignment indicative? Been explained already. I had no reason to expect better from him. I had no reason to think "he's smarter than this, right?" Once he touted himself as a strong town player, I admitted he probably should have been lynched D1 for being so far off his game. Are you far off your game, for being so anti-town in this game? If not, why do you act like you think people should ever listen to you? | ||
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On March 11 2018 21:20 Holyflare wrote: I also think claiming first is entirely relevant because mafia have to plan ahead for a fake claim and mass claims weren't certain they were happening. SO, yeah, I do put weight into that. If I ever see you say this in a game where you're town, I'll be very, very surprised. Because trying to analyze the order of the claims in a mass claim is PURELY a Fool's Errand. And you didn't try to argue against it when I said essentially the same thing earlier. | ||
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On March 11 2018 21:25 rsoultin wrote: Anyway the likelihood that even if I were 100% convinced hf is scum here we could get the medic vig shot on him is pretty damn low, so maybe the best bet really is to just hope I'm wrong on koshi since it looks like that's how this is going to go anyway. DF said he was townreading the Damdred/Koshi slot, and his last post in the thread mentioned making HF the heal target. I guess we'll see what he says when he returns. | ||
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On March 11 2018 21:30 rsoultin wrote: o.0 Did I miss that? I thought he was targeting slam? He'd said earlier that he would be "fine" healing Slam. But his last post was about healing HF. So I don't know, like I say, we'll just see what he has to say. | ||
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On March 11 2018 21:30 Holyflare wrote: It seems you're well into arguing semantics with me and about 0 reasons why I'm actually mafia. Whether or not the order of claims in a mass claim is alignment indicative is not a discussion of semantics. But don't worry, you can find a whole bunch of reasons why you're actually mafia on page 63. Big post, ya can't miss it. | ||
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On March 12 2018 03:00 Holyflare wrote: Let us not forget the discrepancy between noobking saying df is a good day 1 lynch but then not even calling him mafia since then btw That's not a discrepancy. If I had known that your meta read of him on Day 1 was correct, then yes, he would've been a good day 1 lynch. He nevertheless was not a good N1 kill, and he's not a good N2 kill. He was not a good day 2 lynch, and won't be a good day 3 lynch either, unless we kill the VT scum tonight and that flip points back to DF. I'm still watching him. I've been watching him the whole game, I'm watching all of the medic claims. But running around calling one of them mafia is not productive, when none of them are available as lynch targets, since the mass claim granted us a nearly failsafe path to victory via plowing through the VT claims (how many times does this need to be explained to you?) The flip of the VT scum will be very telling, and combined with observation of the medic claims, and how they've handled the VT pool, I expect to be able to identify the fake. What more could you ask for? (unless you're scum....then you could ask me to go after another medic, since a bad kill on a medic is HOW SCUM WINS THIS GAME) | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + I don't think we were supposed to tell them that On March 12 2018 05:05 darthfoley wrote: For noobkings eyes only + Show Spoiler + who do you want to kill? I think the most likely player to be the VT scum is HF. But we would need to convince FF or Vivax to come off of Koshi, in order to go against HF. Splitting the kills is not optimal strategy, accelerating the game only helps scum. | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:10 MoosyDoosy wrote: I am having a difficult time trying to understand this That's because it's nonsense. He can't seem to string together even 2 posts in a row that make sense from the mind of a Town player trying to win this game. | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:16 Holyflare wrote: 7v2 right now. 5 vt circle 4 medic circle. Each circle contains mafia. All 4 medic circles heal all separate targets in the vt circle. If 2 people die in a night that medic is now confirmed medic since mafia had to stack with them. If the 2 people that die are the medic and the person mafia stacked with we simultaneously narrow down the medic pool to 3 and the vt circle to 4. That's 5v2 with with another night of exactly the same. The next cycle if it all goes tits up either becomes 2 people in the vt circle or 2 people in the medic circle and 3 in the other. That leaves mylo at a 50/50 vt circle or a 50/50 medic circle. And we do better than that by just following the original plan, huh? But you'd rather do something that improves the mafia's odds of winning the game. I WONDER WHY THAT MIGHT BE. | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:18 Vivax wrote: I don't think anyone calling HF mafia has actually any idea of how he plays mafia. He certainly wouldn't be as helpful as he is being right now. In what world is he being helpful, Vivax? | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:21 Holyflare wrote: Why is it nonsense really? Other than trying to be inflammatory and blindly repeating koshi game strategy rhetoric why is it bad to narrow down and confirm medics or make the game a 50/50? There's nothing "blind" about repeating koshi's game strategy rhetoric. That "rhetoric" is simply the reality. That "rhetoric" is why it was correct to mass claim, and now you're trying to discard what we gained FROM that mass claim. Why would a town player do that? | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:23 Holyflare wrote: The original plan by koshi literally states "and if it's all wrong you end up at a 50/50" so why is it different? Because his plan doesn't rely on mafia cooperation like yours does. lol In your plan, what keeps the mafia from simply killing someone they didn't think they could get mislynched anyway, and not using the mafia medic? you've forfeited the vig shot, when following the original plan gave us 4 chances to find the VT scum. How is the original plan not better than yours? | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:26 Holyflare wrote: You can even do this so you can stop being shit. Vivax heals Holyflare. Noobking heals slam. Df heals moosy. Ff heals koshi. That way if mafia want to eliminate a vt by stacking they eliminate one of your question marks and save your town reads. Are you saying that's bad for tonight? Are you saying you'd rather chance a shot on a random guy instead of forcing mafia to play their hand? And if they just kill rsoul, wtf have you accomplished? You canceled the ability of all our medics and turned them into vanillas, who stand around and watch mafia perform the night kill. Nice job. Your idea is nonsense. Just stop. | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:35 Holyflare wrote: A full vt game is the most perfect game you can get you pleb. Who gives a shit if they kill rsoul and nobody else? That's just gravy. And what is "most perfect" supposed to mean? | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:38 Holyflare wrote: Every medic heal a different person please. Noobking is incapable of doing anything with respect to following his own plan he keeps needlessly touting. Has he coordinated anything? Nope. Not at all. Nobody is convinced on me, nobody wants to lynch moosy. His plan right now is to get df to heal me so he can get a free kill on me and hope ff/vivax heal someone different and he nks someone else. Let me just reiterate IN THE CURRENT PATH YOU ARE TAKING YOU COULD END UP KILLING THREE SEPARATE PEOPLE AND 2 OF THOSE WILL WITHOUT A DOUBT BE TOWN. EITHER COME TO A CONSENSUS OR HEAL SEPARATE TARGETS. EVERYTHING I'm doing is to try and generate that consensus, including shouting down each of your asinine "let's help the mafia, guys!" suggestions. Didn't I just ask Vivax about how anything you're doing could be perceived as helpful? That's so I can try to get him to join me in killing you. I'm coordinating with Fecalfeast all I can at the moment, he's NOT HERE. DF asked who I wanted to die, I told him. What more could I be doing to coordinate the medics? You talk about how the current path could result in 3 deaths, 2 sure to be town. I'm not advocating the current path though, am I? I've already agreed that splitting the kills is bad. And YOUR first suggestion for how to handle the night phase would likely also have ended in 3 deaths, ALL of them town. NO ONE has had an idea worse than yours. | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:42 Holyflare wrote: The game I want to play and should have been hosted instead of this travesty. Long as you admit it doesn't mean "most town-favored." Lots of setups are more town-favored than a full vanilla game. Like THIS one. ESPECIALLY if we follow the plan from the mass claim. So stop trying to turn THIS game into a full vanilla game, instead of one that favors the town. I'm NOT stupid. | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:43 darthfoley wrote: And i've been down for a Slam kill as I've said. Don't love it (obviously), but whatever. I guess we can hope. Vivax, are you on board? FF (if you show up) are you on board? | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:50 Holyflare wrote: Semantics Semantics Semantics Come to a unanimous decision. Pointing out the FACT that you are actively trying to reduce the town's win % is NOT semantics. | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:58 Vivax wrote: I could pull out the posts from FF as well if you like. You deserve to be killed for that post moosy. Who's on board? That's how he's played the entire game. I'll kill him anyway though, obviously. DF, thoughts on Moosy? | ||
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On March 12 2018 05:59 Holyflare wrote: You have a chip on your shoulder and you're arguing with your mafia read. If I am mafia it is my exact goal to find the most favorable setup for mafia to win. I think not getting people killed and maximising that ability should be my ultimate goal. None of this factors into anything you say. You literally just spent three pages quoting my posts and contradicting what they say just to say "oh that's not the MOST town favoured it's what favours you the most!" Not once did you call me mafia for pushing this mafia strategy or anything. It is in fact semantics you are arguing. The minutiae about a plan and correcting it instead of using it as ammo to further your case is what makes me think you're very much mafia. Of course I'm arguing with my mafia read. I'm trying to keep anyone else from listening to you, and I'm trying to COORDINATE the medics into KILLING YOU. Defeating your arguments is how that process goes. Have you played this game before? Not once did I call you mafia for pushing this mafia strategy? I've called you mafia for it NON-STOP. What are you even talking about? On March 12 2018 05:59 Holyflare wrote: At the end of the day I say we should nk slam and df agrees and you just go "Fine, let's nk slam. It's not optimal but I'll do it." THIS IS A KILL THAT I JUST PROPOSED AND YOU ARE FINE JUMPING ON IT Such a load of bs. I'm NOT fine jumping on it, but I've consistently maintained that splitting the kills is not optimal and that the medics should coordinate. I've said that every step of the way. If Slam is the best I could get, that's still better than splitting the kills. We can afford to be wrong, thanks to the leniency gained from the mass claim YOU opposed, and the resulting plan that YOU oppose. It wasn't YOUR idea to kill slam, DF proposed it long before you ever did. Why can you not even make a single post without saying something that is verifiably false? | ||
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On March 12 2018 06:03 Vivax wrote: But yeah I'm retracting my aciton on Koshi. I think the other medic claims should take a look at moosy or sell me another target that isn't HF since if we aren't doing Moosy tonight I'm going to flip a coin between two targets at my discretion. Why a target "that isn't HF?" Are you just coming right out and saying you're the teammate? Nearly one hundred percent of his posts in this phase have been counterproductive, hindering the town's objective. Why do you not want to kill him? | ||
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On March 12 2018 06:06 rsoultin wrote: HF is right that if we can't get to a consensus on who to nk that's 3 deaths instead of 2, and his proposal at least minimizes the hemorraghing. I actually like it, because I think the best way for mafia to play is to just kill one person if they don't want to confirm a medic. He's only "right" about that because other players badgered him into admitting that his original suggestion was horrendous. It appears you're right about the deadline, so explain why letting mafia kill one person and forfeiting the vig shot is beneficial to us. We apparently have time to listen. | ||
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On March 12 2018 06:09 darthfoley wrote: n00bking what do you want to do considering HF is not happening? Hf should totally happen. Kill HF > Kill Moosy > Kill Slam If we can't get consensus on one of those, I would listen to an alternative plan of action, ahead of us all ganging up on Koshi or rsoul, because those ideas are ridiculous. | ||
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On March 12 2018 06:18 darthfoley wrote: Wait so when are actions due then? rsoul is right, the deadline for actions is still more than an hour away. Look at the post for the start of Night 2, and you can see how much time is left in the phase, and that it did not change with daylight savings time. | ||
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On March 12 2018 06:19 Holyflare wrote: Df and noobking healing hf. Vivax and ff healing koshi. None of that looks like df proposing a unanimous kill on slam I'm afraid. lol, DF has been talking about killing slam since the phase STARTED. His FIRST post in N2 says he's fine vig'ing Slam tonight. | ||
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On March 12 2018 06:20 rsoultin wrote: He's right that medics spilt onto two targets equals three deaths. Then we just hope one of those is the mafia in the claimed VT's. Otherwise it's already mylo tomorrow. I prefer consolidation on one target. His plan is better than what was happening, is the point. He's right that medics split onto two targets equals three deaths....yes, and that was HIS idea, to split onto two targets, remember? lol Only when myself and others badgered him into admitting how awful his plan was, did he admit that splitting the kills is bad. He's "right" about the thing everyone else had already said. "What was happening" wasn't actually going to happen, we just hadn't decided "what was going to happen" yet. | ||
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On March 12 2018 06:26 darthfoley wrote: Because he is the one that said Moosy is his second choice behind a first choice that is 100% not happening today Why is that 100% not happening today? If FF shows up and says he's down for killing HF with me, would you resist that plan? Because this already happened: On March 11 2018 13:02 Fecalfeast wrote: I wanna heal hf | ||
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On March 12 2018 06:38 Holyflare wrote: S e m a n t i c s. He was not wanting to kill slam when it called for a consolidation until now. So the FACT still stands that a consolidation onto slam did not attempt to occur until I suggested it and he agreed to always wanting it and people were fine for it. Therefore I started the unanimous decision. Now you are fine wanting to nk who I wanted! That's not semantics. DF proposed killing him first. That's just fact. And you continue to put falsehoods in every post. I am not fine NK'ing Slam. I merely favored getting a consensus (which YOU tried to prevent, with your split-medics plan) over getting one of my top 2 targets, that I made cases against. I didn't post a case against Slam, because I don't SEE one. But if I can't get one of my top 2 targets, I would fall in line with that 3rd option, which I would resist more powerfully if the target were Koshi or rsoul. | ||
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On March 12 2018 06:46 rsoultin wrote: ARE WE VIGGING MOOSY OR NOT? DF, are we vigging Moosy or not? It obviously looks like Vivax has come around to the idea. | ||
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United States1202 Posts
On March 12 2018 06:50 rsoultin wrote: *sigh* WE ARE VIG SHOTTING KOSHI. THAT IS THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE PLAY HERE. Come on, FF. Get yo' ass in here. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
Nothing? | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 12 2018 06:59 darthfoley wrote: Moosy feels town man. I'm waffling harder than la Grande Place right now. But I think Moosy is town. I think we have to consolidate on Koshi Obviously I disagree that Moosy feels Town. Holyflare feels even less Town. So let's kill Koshi, yay! Ok, I have moved my heal from Moosy to Koshi. Still hoping FF shows. Will check in again before deadline. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 12 2018 07:36 Koshi wrote: Dumbest thing I read on this site. Congratz. Take away kp from town. Hilarious. It's not dumb if he's mafia. It's just not quite as good for mafia as his previous suggestion. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
If I die tonight, and Koshi flips town: Umm....lynch Holyflare? Yeah...lynch Holyflare. I could envision him *maybe* killing me just because he's sick of me, and if the plan had been to get me townkilled instead of killing me themselves (which sure looked like the plan) then he may be losing faith in that plan, as most of the people who were suspicious of me earlier have started to shift back the other way. If he then flips red, Koshi's "tinfoil" theory of HF/Vivax makes sense to me, so I would start with Vivax, and see how you like his answers. If HF should flip Green, then I guess I owe him a beer or something. Scum team should be Moosy and DF. If this sounds like the same ol' shit I been saying all Phase...that's only because it is. Ooh, done typing with a whole minute to spare this time! | ||
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n00bKing
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##Vote: darthfoley Only scum would withhold information the town needs by hiding it behind so many spoiler tags. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 12 2018 08:09 rsoultin wrote: Now I just need to get good lol >< DF is also confirmed town barring extreme crazy scum plays when they could have just taken it down to 4v2. Scum doesn't claim that prior to flip unless they hold their shot and know there won't be any nk. "Mafia cannot hold their shot" | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 12 2018 08:11 rsoultin wrote: \o/ Sweet. Now there's 8 of us and we're looking for 2 scum in 6. Ohhhh....I just realized they could attack Koshi though. That is effectively the same as holding their shot. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 12 2018 08:16 rsoultin wrote: Also true. So I guess it's not 100% confirmed that df is town, but still seems strange that they'd go for one kill instead of two. I agree, very strange. If flips don't go how we want them to, I'll do some math, and see if a play like that could sow enough confusion to get the mislynches they need without having that kill last night. But it's way outside the box, so not worrying about it for now. | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 12 2018 08:11 MoosyDoosy wrote: noobking you're actually joking right Yes. ##Unvote ##Vote: Vivax | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 12 2018 08:39 Holyflare wrote: To be really honest I think the best play here is to not lynch vivax. Well no, especially not if you're his partner, right? On March 12 2018 08:39 Holyflare wrote: We kill into the VTs (slam) and then we get ff/df to heal vivax, nk to heal rsoul and vivax to heal df. I'll look at this later, to see if it makes any sense. Later, folks! | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
Not that you're wrong about things, and not that I'm scumreading you for it or anything (I'm definitely not), I just think the timing was bad. This happened: On March 12 2018 08:26 rsoultin wrote: I agree but frankly I'm not giving Vivax anything more to help him wiggle out. If he's town it's on him to figure it out himself. And then you end up helping him, instead of leaving it on him to figure it out himself. My gut instinct was that following the Koshi plan of continuing to lynch into the VTs would still be the best plan for today, and that it's what we should end up doing. BUT, I dumped my vote on Vivax anyway, to pile on, add to his panic, make him feel like he can only escape the noose by explaining how he isn't caught here, and see if he can come up with good answers, instead of bad answers (or maybe is content to just give up and twist in the wind). I don't think alleviating the pressure on him was the best move, when there was still SO much time in the Phase. The pile of votes on Vivax didn't mean he was being "auto'd" with nothing else happening today. On March 12 2018 10:17 rsoultin wrote: Viva could be playing dumb or reckless scum but that's strange for me. How strange is it? I think someone had said much earlier in the game that Vivax is just not a good scum player. I think that was even part of the reason why he was supposed to be a good afk lynch, right? That if scum, he might just bail on the game, because he's not very good at playing as scum anyway? And I'm not sure that his self-defense today was going too well for him. You directly asked him who he healed last night, and he didn't answer. His answers to other questions continued to imply that Moosy was his target, but he didn't ever come right out and confirm it, leaving himself the option to later say "whoa, I never promised you guys for sure that I targeted Moosy" if things play out so that it's better for him to claim that he targeted someone else. And now it won't mean as much for him to say it directly, if he's pretty sure he's making it through this Phase alive anyway. It's much like the way he handled the Night phase, saying: On March 12 2018 06:03 Vivax wrote: I think the other medic claims should take a look at moosy or sell me another target that isn't HF since if we aren't doing Moosy tonight I'm going to flip a coin between two targets at my discretion. After that point, he keeps telling us that his action is still on Moosy, but never guarantees that he's not going to move it with that coin flip. You also get other weird posts, like this: On March 12 2018 08:37 Vivax wrote: It's obviously Moosy cause FF obviously is mafia. Cause it's bullshit that FF pretends to not have been around during EoD when he was around during EoD 1. And with FFs assumption that I was healing moosy and Koshi was dead man walking, he chose to just kill Koshi when he could have killed Moosy on top of him, but they are teammates. What kind of tunnel does a town player have to be in, to decide that a player can't be absent for EoD 2 just because they were here for EoD1? That just doesn't make any sense, for a rationally-thinking Town player. He's either being irrational or he has a reason for saying it that doesn't match the Town's win condition. He also can't seem to decide what Moosy's survival means. During Night, he seems to think that if Moosy lives it'll mean Moosy and I are scum. During Day, he seems to think that Moosy surviving means Moosy and FF are scum. Except for when he thinks that maybe Moosy is Town...and the scum didn't believe that Vivax was really going to turn in a heal on Moosy...so they attacked him? On March 12 2018 08:11 Vivax wrote: For all we know they can have shot moosy as well. So the missing death from last night isn't because DF saved rsoul, it's because Vivax saved Moosy. Vivax is the real hero medic! Ummm....yeah, doesn't seem...real...likely. We might have seen all kinds of more weirdness from Vivax like this, if we'd held his feet to the flames a little longer. TL;DR - Vivax's defense to this point hasn't been very good, and that's without even needing the wall-of-text cases against him from Moosy and DF. Additionally, if HF should end up being the VT scum, I'll be able to show 1,001 reasons why it makes Vivax the teammate. Koshi was probably picking up on a lot of the same things, which is why he told us the team was HF/Vivax on his way out. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
If we lynch into the VT pool and we're wrong, having the extra town medic alive near the end (even if we aren't sure who it is) still gives us extra options in the last night phase, that we won't have if we've lynched into the medics and been wrong. The vig shot remains an option longer, and there are more scenarios where hero saves are something for the mafia to worry about. If we lynch wrong into the medics, we're hamstrung. No options, no sneaky plays for mafia to try and sniff out. So, ##Unvote On March 12 2018 19:27 Holyflare wrote: I've somehow poed myself as mafia I'm good with that conclusion. The circumstantial evidence against Vivax only makes you more likely to be scum, and not less. ##Vote: Holyflare | ||
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n00bKing
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On March 12 2018 19:56 rsoultin wrote: That's a long post to call me bad, noob, lol >< There's nothing about you in the TL;DR! heh. I understand you not wanting an "auto-lynch" day, and you've explained that you might not be here all that much for the rest of the phase, so maybe you wouldn't have been able to help prevent an auto-lynch day unless you did it now. I just think there was some value to be had in watching him squirm more, and seeing if he could mount a reasonable defense to keep himself out of the noose, or just dug himself a bigger hole. I would have prevented the "auto-lynch" day. I don't have time now to ponder what you are HF are parsing through, with regard to Night plans, but I'll comment on it later. (And before you even say it again, Holyflare, YEAH, I am gonna scumread you and yet ALSO analyze your suggestions, and consider whether they could help. Just because I think your posts late in the D2 phase hemorrhage scumminess doesn't mean I can't also look at scenarios where I could possibly be mistaken. Additionally, it's possible for scum players to make suggestions that actually DO favor the Town. It would be new for you to make a town-favored suggestion, but hey, first time for everything!) | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 12 2018 20:11 darthfoley wrote: to be clear, I think Vivax is scum not just because of last night. Rather, because his defense today has seemed all over the place trying to throw theories at the wall to see what sticks. Plus my case against him regarding his interactions/read progression on prplhz D1 that only Koshi seemed to read and Vivax never even tried to defend himself against. lol, I read it. I even just mentioned it! (free plug for you, I want a cut of your take!) On March 12 2018 20:11 darthfoley wrote: I also agree with n00bking that today wasn't gonna be an auto lynch. I mean yesterday wasn't an auto lynch but you still had people like Vivax and Moosy who kept talking about how they have no interest in the game considering it's a mechanics based solution. And wouldn't you agree that HF was defending their perspective on that? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 12 2018 20:12 darthfoley wrote: Yea, his "is there any world in which Vivax/NK are scum together? I haven't bothered to read the OP!" was a terrible attempt at a dumb tell. like really bad He's gone to that well multiple times, because he also asked me if he and HF were my scum team. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 12 2018 05:32 MoosyDoosy wrote: Also noobking, do you think vivax is scum or not. Yes. I think the most likely scenario is that Koshi was correct, and that Vivax is HF's partner. On March 13 2018 12:13 MoosyDoosy wrote: :/ Man i townread both slam and holy I don't want to kill them here still Do better. I forgot that I promised I would tell you that you suck, in rayn's stead. You suck, Moosy. Do better. You may have townread them both before, but now you need to figure out which one of them is the VT scum. We can't perform the Vivax lynch you want unless we are way more sure he's the fake medic than we are about who is the VT scum. (And I mean WAY...MORE...SURE.) Sadly, the ONLY really important post made by anyone in the entire time I was gone, was this one from Vivax himself (bolding/underlining added for emphasis): On March 12 2018 23:23 Vivax wrote: Why are you people still discussing lynching into the PRs before finding the scum in the VTs as was the plan all along? If you want to be incredibly stupid and prefer to lose town power roles over vanillas, then go ahead. But then don't expect me to put in a shred of effort if I know you are ready to throw the game by voting for me. It's also fucking pointless to defend myself or go read your wrong shit about me cause of the above reason and if I know you are dumb enough to lynch a medic today then you are also dumb enough that my defense wouldn't change anything. Yes I'm triggered. Yetserday we were deciding between 5 VTs, today we got it down to the same amount as we have medics and hence there is only one correct play and everyone is still arguing about medic lynches. So all this day should be between HF, Moosy, Slam fighting it out and you know where I stand. And yes I would lynch HF last. He is exactly right. Day 3 should be all-out WAR between HF, Moosy and Slam to figure out which of them should be the lynch. And then the rest of us weigh the evidence and pick our sides. This is what matters. And if it's a HF/Vivax team, then the reason he's *willing* to remind us that we're supposed to lynch into the VTs is obvious: He thinks that if we lynched into the medics, we'd be more likely to lynch him than we are to lynch Holyflare if we picked a VT. HF, meanwhile, has been ALL about lynching into the medics...until today, when Vivax suddenly became the medic who is clearly the most scumread, and had an avalanche of votes fall onto him at the start of the Phase. Then he tells us there are possibilities where the Night results don't make Vivax scum, and now he magically is willing to get on-board with lynching into the VTs, even if it means killing Moosy, who had been a PERENNIAL townread for him, and whose odds of being Town shot UP dramatically with the new information that points to DF being Town. I said at the end of Night 2 that the scum team was probably either Moosy/DF or HF/Vivax. Koshi said the scum team is HF/Vivax. N2 results then showed us that DF is probably Town, which means the voting record tells us Moosy is probably Town. The N2 results ALSO gave us new reasons to scumread Vivax. Yet HF suddenly no longer wants to lynch into the medics, and is ready to lynch Moosy straight through his long-standing townread of him. And Vivax, though reminding us we should lynch a VT claim, doesn't want to lynch Holyflare, either. How is this difficult, people? On March 13 2018 12:12 MoosyDoosy wrote: People who think Holyflare is mafia here can you please explain why to me. Oh yes. That's comin. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 12 2018 20:10 rsoultin wrote: There's just this constant 'I don't understand the setup' stuff coming from Moosy that I don't care for. I saw it in his scum games when I was going through them yesterday to check Noob's meta claims. Though tbf that's one of the things on my list to double-check with him tomorrow when I have more time, because I haven't confirmed that that's alignment indicative. On March 13 2018 12:53 MoosyDoosy wrote: it's NAI. I'm actually notorious for not giving a shit about setup and being bad with it. Can confirm. Played multiple games with (Town) Moosy, and he repeatedly failed to know/understand the rules & roles, even though they're sitting right there in the OP. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 13 2018 00:57 Holyflare wrote: I believe it. He isn't interested in doing plans until I say them and then he just argues about how it's not THE BEST plan but still a plan. Pointless arguments for the sake of it is definitely mafia. Sure, sure, HF. Arguing is definitely mafia, but directly trying to improve the chances of mafia WINNING THE GAME is not, huh? You pushing a mafia agenda is just "you being you" but me arguing AGAINST someone pushing a mafia agenda, THAT'S scummy, huh? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's a lie to say that I'm not interested in doing any plans. I've consistently been very interested in doing a plan: THE plan that came from the mass claim! Do I then come up with additional plans? No! Because that plan is the BEST one. You resisted the town-favored mass claim, and then once the mass claim gave us a clear path to winning the game, you kept trying to veer us off that path, and make things harder for ourselves. Were my arguments against your plans "pointless?" NO! The point of arguing against your scum-favored plans was to make sure they WEREN'T USED. And it WORKED! Your ridiculous "let's help the mafia" plans WEREN'T USED. You tried to lynch into the medic claims on Day 2, I was able to stop you. You then tried to say the medics should aim into each other during Night 2, and I was able to stop you again. You then tried to say the medics should all heal separate targets, so that our medics would be neutered and the only result from the Night Phase would be mafia killing a Town player while we all stood around and watched, and I was able to stop you a THIRD time. The reason I'm not interesting in coming up with new plans until you bring them up is that we already had the RIGHT one all along. And the way I've managed to keep us on that proper path is by ARGUING with you about how your plans are WORSE than that one, and keeping people from falling for your scum-favored antics. I've had help from rsoul and Koshi in shooting down your terrible suggestions, but they *were* terrible and I *have* shot them down. | ||
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n00bKing
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@Vivax: Why are you voting against Moosy? Why is he scum? @Holyflare: Why are you voting against Moosy? Why is he scum? He was supposed to be a townread of yours, what happened? No wait, I already know the answer to that last one. You're voting against Moosy today (despite townreading him all this time) because you think that after he flips town, it'll be easier to get Alakaslam shot on N3, than the other way around. If Moosy is lynched today and flips town, who here has confidence in Alakaslam winning the war of words against HF on N3, and making HF the N3 VT kill, instead of it being himself? Nope, you fools will probably let HF lead you around by the noses again, make Alakaslam the N3 kill, watch him flip town just like Moosy did, and that will be the 4th and fatal mistake that Koshi told you that you couldn't afford to make. Because you had FOUR shots in the VT pool and missed them ALL, because you couldn't open your eyes and put HF in this noose, despite all of the ways he's tried to HELP...the MAFIA...WIN. Holyflare told you all that he'd solved who the VT scum was, and that it was Koshi. Go back and read HF's stated reasons for scumreading Koshi. They're GARBAGE. But whaddya know? HF was able to convince Vivax & FF to make Koshi their target anyway, and then FF afk'd EoN which tied our hands, and Koshi died. And flipped town. Holyflare told you Moosy is town, and that it was Koshi and not Moosy who should be killed on N2. Why kill Koshi ahead of Moosy? Because just as HF's ideas and plans are bad for town, Koshi's were GOOD for town. Go back and read HF's stated reasons for townreading Moosy. They, too, are GARBAGE. Why are his reasons for townreading Moosy garbage? So he can toss them aside, once it becomes convenient to do so! I even TOLD ALL OF YOU that this would happen, ALL the way back on Page 63, when I first posted the case against Holyflare (which you should read again, because not a word of it has been disproven. Here's the relevant excerpt to this particular point though: On March 11 2018 14:43 n00bKing wrote: In case the shot ends up going into the VTs, he wants to make sure it doesn't hit him. Ideally, it wouldn't hit Moosy, either, so that Moosy can be the Day 3 lynch. Boy, did I call it or WHAT? Somehow I KNEW that even despite HF's townread on Moosy, he would wind up trying to get Moosy lynched on D3 anyway, once Koshi was out of the way. And he's doing exactly what I said a scum HF would do, even though the N2 results gave him an excuse to FINALLY lynch into the medics and go after Vivax, and even though the N2 results are town-indicative for Moosy. Wake up, wake up, wake up! | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
I posted my case against Moosy, and you checked on my association case with him and prpl by investigating his other scum games (the ones that were more recent than the ones I'd seen him in) and told me that his behavior toward prpl in this game didn't really match with his behavior regarding his scummates in his other scum games. Weakening the association case. I didn't have to be bummed out about it though, if it just meant the case on HF is the right one instead. You and I talked through how it's odd for Moosy not to push DF into that Noose on D1, if Moosy were scum and DF were town. We determined that the voting pattern is town-indicative for Moosy, but ONLY if DF is actually Town, and we couldn't know that for sure, so we had to throw it out. Well now, after the N2 results, we have a new reason to trust DF, and consequently a new reason to townread Moosy. Why would you vote him out, over HF? During N2, you said one of the reasons you'd rather get HF shot than someone else is you were afraid that if HF were the VT scum, he'd be tougher to get into a Noose than other players. As scum, he's better-than-average at talking his way out of a Noose, right? That's what the fear was, right? On March 11 2018 17:56 rsoultin wrote: And I need to figure out whether it should be HF or moosy @.@ I'm kind of inclined to say HF for the awful reason that I think if I'm the nk he doesn't get lynched/shot ever and autowins. What do you think you're watching right now??? And when Moosy flips town today, do you really think it's going to get EASIER to eliminate HF, when the player opposite him on N3 is Alakaslam? After all was said and done, and the N2 Phase wound down, you said this to HF: On March 12 2018 07:10 rsoultin wrote: gun to my head, I think you're the most likely non-claim to flip scum here. You had tried to get him to explain why he was scumreading Koshi, and you didn't like his answers. You had tried to get him to explain why he was townreading Vivax (and giving him a pass for his reduced activity) and you didn't like his answers. Good reasons for HF to want you gone. Good reasons for Vivax to want you gone. Again, that earlier quote from you says that you're especially worried that a scum HF wouldn't ever get pushed into the Noose, if YOU were no longer around to help facilitate it. "if I'm the nk" you said. Well guess what? We have reason to believe that the mafia DID try to kill you last night. How does any of what happened on N2 make a HF/Vivax team less likely than it was before? How does any of what happened on N2 make a scum Moosy more likely than it was before? Why is your vote where it is? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 13 2018 14:00 Alakaslam wrote: So Throwing down some unexpected plays ##Unvote ##Vote: Holyflare Progress! Let's goooooo | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 13 2018 16:52 Holyflare wrote: He's used koshi's read on me/vivax to further his narrative when koshi even admits I was town for being annoying. False. Why would you even bother wasting the time to type trash like this? Everyone knows what Koshi's outgoing thoughts were, after you scumread him for awful reasons. It looks like THIS: On March 12 2018 07:53 Koshi wrote: HF and Vivax bois. Just lynch and vigi them. START WITH HF Go ahead and explain how that post is Koshi "admitting you are Town." We'll wait. On March 13 2018 16:52 Holyflare wrote: He's saying my big mafia plan is to lynch moosy today so I can fight it out with slam tomorrow and we never lynch vivax when my plan that I've repeatedly said today has been to lynch myself after moosy and then when medics have to kill into each other the first medic they kill is vivax. Your big mafia plan IS to lynch Moosy today so you can fight it out with Slam Night 3. Your Night 3 plan for when Moosy flips town is NOT to have medics kill into each other and start with Vivax. Your Night 3 plan for when Moosy flips town is to kill one of the VTs. Your plan is FF & DF on a VT claim, Vivax on rsoul, me on DF. That doesn't kill Vivax. That kills a VT claim. So after Moosy flips town, the question will be: which VT claim should be killed? You or Alakaslam? So yes, that fight with Slam is EXACTLY where your Moosy lynch leads to, which is why I was able to accurately PREDICT you would do this, before we even REACHED this Phase! On March 13 2018 16:59 Holyflare wrote: Not only did I try and get the medics onto a consensus yesterday TO FOLLOW THEIR OWN PLAN but I tried to propose plans that narrowed down the vt pool quicker to avoid this exact scenario and keep loads of confirmed town alive. You DID NOT want the medics to follow the plan. The plan was to kill one of the VT claims. You tried to KEEP us from following that plan, with not one, but TWO ideas that would have been WORSE. First you suggested a plan that had the medics killing each other, and when I (and Koshi, and rsoul) shouted you down, you next came up with your plan that all of the medics heal separate targets, rendering all of them useless and giving the mafia a clean killshot at ZERO risk. BOTH of your plans gave the mafia NEW ways to win that they wouldn't otherwise have. Koshi wanted us to have a consensus and follow the plan. So did rsoul. So did I. YOU, however, offered TWO alternatives that would have been worse than following the plan, and did not acquiesce until the Phase was nearly over. On March 13 2018 17:08 Holyflare wrote: I said to myself on day 2 when rsoul posted her crap case that whoever starts to hop onto it looks like really opportune mafia in a shit spot that needs a push to latch onto and here we are. My case against you involves a ton of different things beyond what she initially disliked about your play. Trying to pretend that what I'm doing here is "hopping onto" the case she made is absurd, and I expect she'd be happy to tell you so herself. On March 13 2018 17:08 Holyflare wrote: Think back to every point in this game where somebody proposes a meta read on somebody else and instead of indulging it nk simply asks "is that true everybody?" and then forgets all about the read. Now look at how he treats this read on me. Rsoul gave up her push on day 2 citing that I do this as town and she's been wrong and it might mean nothing. Did he do the usual questioning then? Absolutely not. He has just pushed this forever. You seem confused. The answer to your question isn't "Absolutely not." The answer to your question is "Yes." Of course I did the usual questioning then. rsoul saying "you do this as town" was about only a SINGLE element of the case against you. It is not a counter-point to ANY of the many OTHER things I have presented that make you scum. You seem so proud of repeating over and over again that she "gave up her push" on you. I guess you forgot how even at the end of N2, she STILL told you yet again (as I just quoted a few posts up) that she thinks you're the VT claim who is most likely to flip scum? On March 13 2018 17:08 Holyflare wrote: Then look at when Koshi has said the same thing. "hf is town because he's so annoying and it makes me mad". That's the koshi read I look for in a town koshi and he said it. Boy, you've made TWO problems for yourself in this one. Firstly, if that's the read you look for in a town koshi, and he said it, then why did you still want him DEAD? lol And secondly, in the post you mention about you making him mad (which you did NOT quote verbatim, because it does NOT say "hf is town"), that SAME post also included THIS: On March 11 2018 22:48 Koshi wrote: If only I die. Lynch HF. Is THAT clear enough for you? If not, go back to the quote from him above, where he exited the game saying that he believes the scum team is you and Vivax, and that we should lynch YOU first. On March 13 2018 17:08 Holyflare wrote: when we were deciding who to medic last night NOBODY CAME UP WITH ANYTHING. Two of the medics did not want to lynch me and they didn't seem convinced. I seemed like the only player in the game who actually wanted to follow this shitty plan that's so good. Nk instead didn't care and still tried to get me medic killed instead. False. Medics came up with things. They just didn't all come up with the same thing. It's complete bullshit to say I "didn't care" about following the plan, and tried to get you medic killed "instead." I tried to get you medic killed BY following the plan. YOU were one of the viable targets for the plan. I tried to make you the kill. When the other medics would not cooperate, I fell in line and followed the plan ANYWAY, even though I didn't get the target I wanted. I NEVER suggested going outside the plan, and using a worse idea instead. That was YOU. TWICE. On March 13 2018 17:08 Holyflare wrote: Then I proposed a target. Me. His mafia read. The guy he won't stop talking about. And he just went for that guy instead?????? Where's the logic in this? Stubborn mule just sheeps his scum read to night kill who the mafia wanted to kill. Doesn't make a single bit of sense. When I called him out on it he just said "we needed a consensus obviously" but he didn't care about that previously, didn't try and night kill moosy, his other actual scum read and didn't even PROPOSE we kill moosy. All lies, top to bottom. Your "proposed target" had already BEEN proposed BEFORE you did it. Acting like I was "sheeping my scum read" is complete horseshit. Yes I said we needed a consensus. Yes, I DID care about that previously (and EVERY step of the way). Yes, I would have participated in a consensus on Slam, but it was because that was at least better than taking the consensus on Koshi who YOU were so spectacularly "wrong" to label as the scum VT. YES, I proposed a kill on Moosy, and when we neared the deadline, I directly asked DF if he was on board for the Moosy kill. I made my preferred kill order PLAINLY obvious for everyone. OBSERVE: On March 12 2018 06:20 n00bKing wrote: Kill HF > Kill Moosy > Kill Slam Anyone who goes back and reads N2 will see that I consistently and clearly argued for the consensus (since that WAS the plan) and they'll all see that I clearly gave a preferred kill order. Who did I NOT want to kill, of the VTs? Koshi and rsoul. Who did YOU want dead, of the VTs? Koshi. What allegiance was he? Town. On March 13 2018 17:24 Holyflare wrote: I also coordinated the medics onto prplhz.???? lol, who didn't? There was universal agreement for the medics to coordinate on prplhz, AFTER I shut down Vivax's suggestion of splitting the medics. I stopped him from screwing things up N1 just like I stopped you from screwing things up N2. Thank goodness I'm around to stop the 2 players who try to give the mafia an advantage. And though Vivax said he had a bad feeling that prplhz was gonna flip town, DF said that given the low activity in the game there probably wasn't time to safely change the target, the kill stuck, and prplhz died. On March 13 2018 17:28 Holyflare wrote: Let's not forget noobking's argument on me is that I want to kill moosy now so it's just me against slam tomorrow BUT IF IT WAS UP TO ME SLAM WOULD ALREADY BE DEAD. lol, that's just ONE of my many arguments against you. I don't think you'll be fooling anyone into actually believing you wanted Slam killed instead of Koshi, when you repeatedly fingered Koshi as the VT scum. And if you wish Slam was already dead, then by what sorcery did your Day 3 vote end up on Moosy instead, after I plainly predicted that after killing town koshi, you would then try to have Moosy lynched on Day 3, EVEN THOUGH you'd been consistently townreading Moosy for Phase after Phase? Isn't it amazing how I can say "Here is how HF will later contradict himself if he's scum" and then everyone gets to see it happen? | ||
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Evidently so. I guess your partner wouldn't give you permission to scoop? But don't worry, if that post from you was a lie, it fits right in with your other posts. | ||
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On March 13 2018 17:46 Holyflare wrote: Also strange nk doesn't want to go after his second biggest scum read and instead was trying to prep him to lynch me maybe? Yes, SO strange for someone to go after their biggest scum read, instead of their second biggest. *eyeroll* You're a better lynch than Vivax because Vivax is a medic claim. And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you're constantly trying to help the wrong team (while he does so only every now and then!) And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you withdrew your fake claim at the start of Day 2 when Town would have a motive to keep it secret and use it against the scum team on N2 if there's no mass claim, while Scum would have a motive to back out of the fake claim ASAP in case there IS a mass claim. And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you give wrong reads for bad reasons (ie Koshi) And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you go back on your other reads without explanation as soon as it becomes convenient for mafia to do so. (ie Moosy) And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you keep (objectively) posting falsehoods about things other players have said, and when you get caught in your lies, you try to play it off as "semantics." And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you keep inexplicably trying to act like it's scummy for me to argue against your stupid scum-favored ideas. You're a better lynch than Vivax for ALL the other reasons listed in my case against you on Page 63. You should be the lynch today because you...are...scum. | ||
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On March 13 2018 19:08 rsoultin wrote: The constant arguing is getting old, noob. And this is something to say to me, more than it's something to say to HF, because....why? On March 13 2018 19:08 rsoultin wrote: You won't convince HF he's scum. Obviously? That's not the point of what I'm doing? I'm proving he's scum for everyone else in the game, seeing the discussion? On March 13 2018 19:08 rsoultin wrote: And no matter how much it's better play to actually read others' posts, I really can't be assed to read the back and forth that is just "NO NO NO YOU ARE WRONG YOU ARE SCUM" that you seem to post to everything he says. I'm not just saying he's wrong, I'm citing very specific examples for how we can know that he's wrong. That's the best thing I could possibly be doing, in attempting to get my scumread lynched. On March 13 2018 19:08 rsoultin wrote: stop arguing with your scumread if you don't think he could be town* How on Earth are you supposed to get scum lynched if you don't argue with them? When you are confident in your scumread and you try to get them lynched, they will defend themselves and argue against the points you've made. That's their JOB. You get them (or keep them) in the Noose by arguing back and DEFEATING their arguments. You can't just let them argue against the evidence you have and LET them, failing to point out the holes and falsehoods in their story. That's how scum wriggles out of the Noose. If I want to get Holyflare lynched, I need to keep stomping him down every time he posts more lies in his defense, so that people can see WHY those lies are not to be believed. | ||
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On March 13 2018 19:29 rsoultin wrote: From what I see you're not really convincing anyone else either. Slam already moved his vote, and Moosy and FF haven't been back yet. If they're convinced (or even if just FF is convinced, and Moosy has to move for self-preservation) that's already too many votes to top. In that scenario, if you want to keep him out of a Noose, you'll inherit the task of explaining how he is innocent, and I don't know where you'd even begin. I tried going into his filter with the pre-supposition that he's Town, and looked through for excuses to prop up that pre-supposition. If I assume he's Town before even I start reading, can I interpret his posts in a manner that fit with that narrative? No. On March 13 2018 19:29 rsoultin wrote: If you want to choose to continue to beat your head against a wall, that's your prerogative That'll be up to him. If he can't argue against the points I've made, then I feel they should be sufficient to get him lynched. If anyone has any questions about the points I've made, I'm happy to answer, but I think they speak for themselves, and I think the back-and-forth between he and I just now demonstrates that he cannot refute them. If he flails some more, I'll stomp him some more. That's the way I play, it's the only way I've ever played, and the win-loss results I've gotten from playing that way are better than anyone has a right to hope for. Peace! | ||
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On March 13 2018 20:00 Holyflare wrote: That's not how you get someone lynched. It is, actually. I've done it more times than I would care to count. And many, many times when I've caught scum, they've turned it into huge battles. I post a wall of text case against them. They post a wall of text defense. And the war is on, back and forth, over and over. And I get them lynched, when people see that I win the argument. That my points are better and stronger than my opponent's. I often don't need to make a post to any other player. I ONLY need to speak to my target, and defeat their counterarguments, when we go head-to-head. Your responses to my attacks on you are exactly what I would expect to see from a scum player trying to escape the noose. What else would you do, but try to defend yourself with the posts you made? What else would I do, but shoot them down with the posts I made? That's the game. Other people read the argument, and decide who is right and who is scum. That's the game. On March 13 2018 20:00 Holyflare wrote: I'm not mafia, you should ask me questions to try and reevaluate your stance. I asked you questions, when your behavior was suspicious or confusing. You avoided answering them. When I pushed harder and got answers...they only made me think I'd been right to be suspicious, and only made me think that I could now understand why you'd avoided answering the first time. When you tried to scumread me, it was with falsehoods. When you tried to defend yourself, it was with falsehoods. This latest post from you looks like an attempt to "play nice", calm me down, and get me to think in other directions, because you're not such a bad guy...you're just misunderstood. Just one problem: I was perfectly calm when I posted the case against you on Page 63, and I was perfectly calm when I made the posts against you on Pages 91 and 92 before you arrived. People should read those posts, read the back-and-forth between us that followed, and decide whether I am right or wrong, about you being scum. Because "is n00bKing right about his scumread?" is now the most important question of the game to this point. Even moreso than if my target was someone else. If I'm right, nailing you to the wall is of added importance, because people keep saying things that make it sound like they have a shitty track record of successfully getting you killed when you're scum! | ||
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On March 13 2018 20:09 Holyflare wrote: I contradict myself because my mind changes based on new scenarios and me reading new things. Is it also an explanation that I'm opportunistic and mafia? Sure. There's also the explanation I'm town and looking at new things. Do you think I'm not familiar with town players changing their minds? Of course town players get new information, step back, re-evaluate, and then reach new conclusions. I was just forced to do exactly that when DF's N2 medic save shattered my case against Moosy. When town players do that, I expect them to be able to explain their thought progression in a way that I can understand. When you try to explain away your contradictions, I cannot follow your thought progression. It simply looks like someone pulling a 180 because that's what's needed to get the next mislynch. On March 13 2018 20:09 Holyflare wrote: I said we shouldn't really kill Koshi yesterday and I even said his last post sounded sincere but I gave reasons to be hesitant. My preferred kill would have absolutely been slam I do not believe you, and have said that if people go look at it themselves, I don't expect them to believe you either. Slam wasn't the kill you wanted, Koshi was the kill you wanted, and you got it. I predicted (before this Phase ever even began) that you would flip-flop on Moosy on Day 3 and try to make him the next kill, and now that's where your vote is, despite the fact that the night result is town-indicative for him, and despite the fact that you had been heavily townreading him earlier. On March 13 2018 20:09 Holyflare wrote: I've not really seen you mention [Alakaslam] once the entire game (you might have, it's not scummy for me to forget if you have) and it's weird because he is actually posting things. I'd like for you to explain why you don't want him lynched or comparatively what he's done that's towny. What has he done that's towny? Nothing. Half his posts aren't even related to the game. Players like him (and Kelsier) are good early-game fallback options, because you're unlikely to get much out of them the rest of the game either. (EVERYTHING I said about my experiences with D1 no-shows having reduced value if they're town bore out, with Kelsier.) So Alakaslam earns no Town points. Zero. And no scum points either, really. He's still at baseline. But I haven't listed 12 or 14 reasons to believe he's scum, like I have with you. You're nowhere near the starting baseline. So regardless of the fact that I cannot list any reasons to townread Alakaslam, he's not even in the same universe with you, in terms of lynch quality. He's a big fat nothing on my radar. You're a massive wad of scum indicators. On March 13 2018 20:11 Holyflare wrote: You're also doing the incorrect thing and not questioning me but instead talking at me. You'll never figure me out that way. I have questioned you all game. And when you weren't refusing to answer, you were giving me answers that caused me to go from being suspicious of you to thinking you're definitely the Mafioso I've been looking for. I'll never figure you out this way? You're figured out. This is the part where I'm supposed to shift from figuring you out to defeating your attempts to evade the Noose. You seem to now be pinning your hopes on the idea that the players in this game are too illiterate or too lazy to simply read what I've said and read what you've said and make a judgment on it. Guess we'll see? | ||
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On March 13 2018 20:36 Holyflare wrote: Now we've got that out of the way I'd really rather you link the most important posts on me as a case of sorts so other people can read it and then treat me as town for the rest of the cycle and live in a world where one of Moosy or Slam is mafia and think of why. I'm very very sure you'd "rather" I would treat you as town for the rest of the cycle, and live in a world where you're not mafia. If you're mafia. But unfortunately for you, I understand that the pathway to the Town condition is to do everything I can to get you in that Noose. I've said where the *most* important posts on you are. They're on Pages 63, 91, and 92. But in actuality, ALL of the posts are important. They shouldn't just read my case against you, but also your defense, and my counterarguments to your defense. THAT'S THE GAME. | ||
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On March 13 2018 21:08 Holyflare wrote: Also lol "I don't believe you" i regards to Koshi. What a novel response. Nice breath of fresh air. I will just say what you say repeatedly. That isn't something to believe or not believe. Read page 11 of my filter and tell me I wanted Koshi lynched over consolidation on Slam. Of course it is something to believe or not believe. Reading page 11 of your filter AND telling you that you wanted Koshi killed over Slam is something that was already done before you asked. Some of your posts from Page 11 of your filter are literally IN the case I've posted against you. You only suggested a kill on Alakaslam once, and it was NOT what you actually wanted. That's NOT complicated. All it takes is a single paragraph from a scum player saying something that doesn't reflect his actual desires. (omg, no one has ever seen that before!) After trying to fight a consolidation for the ENTIRE Phase, with TWO (worse) alternative plans of action, you finally give in to a consensus kill at the end of phase, the target of which you expect will be the target you want: Koshi. And it WAS. As you'd convinced Vivax and FF to put their heals on him, and then FF never returned to participate in a switch. As I've said, I will GLADLY welcome anyone or everyone to re-read the EoN sequence for N2, and I do not think you'll get ANYONE to believe that the kill you *actually* wanted was Slam, over Koshi. Page 11 of your filter shows you continuing to try and motivate people to kill Koshi (just as you had throughout the N2 phase, having named him the VT scum) *after* the ONE post where you ever suggested Alakaslam as a possible kill. | ||
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On March 13 2018 21:16 Holyflare wrote: It's not like you're a medic and could have diverted from your plan at any point to medic me if you're so sure you know? And what good would that have done? You're not even trying, now. | ||
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On March 13 2018 21:09 Holyflare wrote: I don't think I've even ever explained my contradictions to you either. Why SURE you have! Did you already forget your FEEBLE excuses for stripping Moosy of the hard townread you had on him, at the very same time the apparent medic save from the night results derailed my case against him?? | ||
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On March 13 2018 21:27 Holyflare wrote: Mafia would kill me Now you're just insulting the intelligence of every player in the game. | ||
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On March 13 2018 21:32 Holyflare wrote: And also I didn't convince vivax and ff to vote koshi. They are independent thinkers Oh, right. I guess that explains why FF returned to the thread after the deadline for actions, and said that he healed Koshi, and that if Koshi doesn't flip mafia then "I got played by HF" L...O...L On March 13 2018 21:32 Holyflare wrote: I think Koshi was a perfect choice, I even outlined his contradictions and posted reasons why he was a good lynch UNTIL he gave me pause for thought towards eod where not one medic was trying to consolidate. Just MORE of your lies. DF and I were both trying to consolidate. Which again, will be clear to anyone who re-reads the EoN, just as it will be clear to them that you didn't *really* want the kill to switch away from Koshi. Keep bringing your bullshit. Swatting it away feels effortless for me. I'll be getting some sleep now, but when I return tomorrow, if there's any more of this crap from you, I'll swat that away too. Gotta say, if you deserve the reputation for being a decent scum player that people here seem to afford you...then this is NOT your best work. Peace and hair grease, Mr. Mafioso. | ||
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What are the talking points I need to read up on most? And does anyone have an up-to-date vote count? | ||
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Thanks. So we're punting Moosy? Can anyone direct me to a case on Moosy? Just whichever post best describes why he should be lynched. Also, I see some "tinfoil" discussion about a DF/rsoul team skipping the attack for deep cover. I still don't buy rsoul being scum. And if DF is scum he doesn't need her to be part of the plan for him to execute it. DF scum doesn't mean rsoul has to be the partner. | ||
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I just had a brainstorm! + Show Spoiler + We should lynch Holyflare :D | ||
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On March 14 2018 07:22 darthfoley wrote: I'm mainly just lazy. Lynching HF just takes a lot of work. That's why we should have killed him instead of Koshi. | ||
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I guess it's bad, yeah. Neither is an interesting duel. You're both auto-lynch if the other flips Town, because people are apparently allergic to lynching HF for no reason they can even explain themselves. I've asked Vivax like 2 or 3 times why he is so closed-minded on the subject, and...nothing. It's almost like he's the other mafia! | ||
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On March 14 2018 07:26 darthfoley wrote: You would be the autolynch against Slam I think. Because I think you lose vs. HF no matter what your alignment is, no offense. Slam has been so off the walls that HF can't dissect every single thing he says. I can also see you being a part of the NKs more than HF tbh. I think it's a decent point in his favor; I just don't think it's correct to call a NK dumb. Maybe AMG was suboptimal, but rsoultin NK definitely wasn't dumb. Who cares right now, how much easier HF manipulates the town into a Slam mislynch, vs. how easily he manipulates the town into a Moosy mislynch? He's going to get them BOTH. Who cares right now, how dumb the kills were or weren't? Is that helping you know where to put your vote? None of this shit looks productive! IS THERE A CASE ON MOOSY? | ||
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On March 14 2018 07:32 rsoultin wrote: Slam is the most townread of you three which you'd know if you'd read. I just struggle to see why the mafia team would feel the need to pocket me with a 'save', though I don't like this 'cba to lynch my scumread' thing coming from df. It wouldn't be to pocket you, it's to make DF "confirmed town" so the other medics are killed first. | ||
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On March 14 2018 07:52 MoosyDoosy wrote: tl;dr kill me here vivax/holyflare one possibility darthfoley tinfoil another. DOn't discredit this possibility I like how your tl;dr is more lines than any of your other posts. Anyway, enjoy being dead. And Alakaslam, enjoy being the N3 kill! zzzzzz | ||
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Yes. HF gets us to kill Moosy on D3 (going FULL reverse on the townread), and Alakaslam on N3. I've been saying it for an entire cycle now. And you all just keep letting him do it. zzzzz | ||
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I won't try to offer any plans for Night, don't have credibility. I'll just make a farewell post later, where I give my best guess of who the mafia medic is for when I'm dead. If you devise a plan where you need me to heal somebody, just let me know my target. Otherwise I will *not* be turning in an action, so that the mafia cannot try to guess who I healed, and stack. (You don't need me to try and make a save, it's not worth the added risk.) | ||
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On March 14 2018 09:31 Holyflare wrote: lol you just confirmed you're not a medic, medics have to heal each night or it's randomed gg confirmed I was sure you had to be joking, but then you said it again in this post: On March 14 2018 17:27 Holyflare wrote: He's confirmed mafia lol? All game long, I've asked you questions about "why would you post crap like this, if you were town?" And yet again...why would you post crap like this, if you're town? That post is just completely awful. No, there is nothing in the OP (or anywhere else in the game that I've seen) that says anything about the action becoming randomized. I've also never heard of a "mandatory" healer. The healer's action is never mandatory on the site I play most often, and in fact, there are not ANY roles that have a mandatory night action. 100% of them are optional. On top of all that, if the medic "has to" heal each night in this ruleset, then you would have to assume the same is true for the mafia medic. Meaning that the mafia medic is 0% more likely than a town medic, to say what I said. 0%. It means absolutely nothing. In the time it took to type, you should have figured out not to say it. But said it anyway. I don't understand why your brain doesn't work. I mentioned before that during the D3 Phase, I had listed off 12-14 reasons to believe you were scum. You gave me two more late in the phase, which I didn't have time to comment on (and which I didn't have reason to think would make any difference anyway.) This is now yet another thing that wouldn't make any sense for a town player to do, and could only make sense for a scum player to do, as they try to get me killed in N3. So I now have in the neighborhood of 15-17 separate arguments against you. 15-17 distinct reasons to believe you have a scum role in this game. Against Moosy, I had THREE. And rsoul argued AGAINST 2 of those 3 reasons to think Moosy was scum. If I took her word for it, I would have had only ONE reason left to think he was scum. And yet, YOU'RE the one who is Town. That's pretty sad. | ||
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On March 15 2018 05:15 Holyflare wrote: Are you mad that despite having all these reasons to lynch me I somehow convinced every single person in this game to vote not me? YES. I thought that was obvious, when I said that I had 15-17 distinct reasons for scumreading you, and could not get people to even discuss them. | ||
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On March 15 2018 05:30 Fecalfeast wrote: Just to humour you... who is the vt faking medic if hf is scum? He's not. | ||
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And that's why it's so sad. | ||
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I think the game culture here is pretty toxic. The idea that rsoul would feel like she has to defend HF regarding his anti-town behavior because "he pushes the mafia agenda while he's town" is baffling. The idea that HF would himself tell me he shouldn't be scum-read for pushing the mafia agenda because he would do it while town is baffling. The fact that it was true he was town in this game is insane. NO player should EVER be forced into a position where they have to defend someone else from the noose, on the basis of "he tries to help the scum team even when he's town." Why would a town player do that? I've still never heard an excuse for it, just that he DOES it. Why??! That should be a viable reason to scumread someone, over and over and over. In this game, I caught Holyflare in 3 separate instances of trying to push us in scum-favored directions, instead of just following the ALREADY-ESTABLISHED pro-town plan. This should ALWAYS be good cause to scumread a player. I also caught him in both logical inconsistencies AND the use of logical fallacies. The false dichotomy I caught him trying to use was terrible. This should ALWAYS be good cause to scumread a player. In his attacks on his scumreads and in his defenses of himself, he very consistently said things that simply were not true. That could be verified as untrue if anyone just *actually* went back to look, as I did. I repeatedly said that if anyone just goes back and actually looks at the way [occasion] happened, they'll see that he can only be mistaken or LYING, and nothing else. Seemingly, no one ever looked but me. When the argument between the two of us reached its apex, he was putting a falsehood in at least every other post. This should ALWAYS be good cause to scumread a player. I don't want to play in games where these are not reliable indicators of scum play, because there is a guy who plays anti-town in his town for no reason. I want to play in games where finding someone *actively working* to help scum win the game...is probably scum. And if I were hosting a game, I would probably ask HF not to participate in it, so that the other players could play the game the way it's meant to be played. I think the way he played this game is against the very spirit of the game itself, and robs other players of the experience they are intended to have. The other places I play, someone like HF couldn't exist for very long. He would have been RELIGIOUSLY lynched for his scum-favored play (and yes, mislynched sometimes, if that's what it took) until he LEARNED BETTER. You also have a big "afk players" problem. I talked about this 2 or 3 years ago, but if this game is any indication? Your problem here has only gotten worse, and not better. On the site I play most often, we don't even hold open "replacement" slots during registration. If a game fills, it starts. And even if it's a 25-player game, we don't expect that a "replacement" will definitely be needed. People sign up because they want to play. This game, meanwhile, took over TWO WEEKS to fill, even though it required only 13 players. And then, of those 13 signups, FOUR of them did not actually play. Four of Thirteen! And that's if you say Fecalfeast DID play (which is generous. I would usually expect a player with that little activity to be pressured for "lurking" except we had several players who were somehow doing even less.) chaoser and damdred were replaced, and prplhz and Kelsier easily *could* have been replaced. That's really...REALLY bad. Even one of the replacements (Alakaslam) never really did anything, and less than half of his posts were game-related. I don't know if your bad-game-environment problem can be fixed at this point or not. If so, I don't know if you solve it through more aggressively lynching afk players, or if you solve it with harsher penalties for players who sign up and then don't play. But hopefully you can find SOMEthing to do about it. Or things will just remain a cesspool here. This is probably the LEAST happy I've ever been, about winning a game. Whenever the scum medic does flip, what am I gonna "celebrate" about this victory? Where 4 signups didn't play, one of the other signups played a scum-favored game while he was town, and none of the other players seemed to care that he was doing it. Yay. I would say the likelihood is Fecalfeast > DF > Vivax, for finding the mafia medic. I would say "good luck" except that, given the way HF played this game, and given that he turned out to be town....I can't say I even care anymore either. Peace. | ||
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Otherwise, like I said, I will not be turning in an action. (which HF seems to think means it will be randomized, even though it doesn't say that anywhere. But if it's randomized, that still means that if the mafia stacks on my heal, it'll be because they guessed the randomization, and not because they managed to guess where I would put it) | ||
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On March 15 2018 05:37 rsoultin wrote: Y'know, I'm almost ashamed to be so amused by this lol >< 15-17 reasons is better defined as a tunnel. Have you figured out who the scum is then since the rest of us have been lazy fuckers today? Nope, not with any certainty. You can see my lynch order that I posted, but no, I didn't figure it out. I was a lazy fucker today too, since seeing that HF is town basically killed any desire I had to do anything. | ||
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On March 15 2018 05:47 darthfoley wrote: Maybe the most toxic post I've ever read on TL Mafia, and that's saying something. You go from bitching about being wrong on HF (if you're town) to the game taking long to fill. Just lol. People stopped taking you seriously when you felt the need to make a Master's Thesis reply to literally every goddamned post in this game. Before you just start bitching about literally everything and blaming everyone but you for being wrong about 1(!!!!) person in this game, maybe you should look introspectively and realize that a flaw in your play is that you take 400 sentences to say what should take 4. No. (was that concise enough for you?) The way I play has yielded extremely strong results. I'm not gonna mess with success, thanks. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 15 2018 05:57 Holyflare wrote: I haven't always been this way, phone posting and work made me lazy and I spew whatever is on my mind. If it's wrong or "pushing mafia agenda" it's simply because I had 30 seconds at work to post something that I thought was correct but turns out wasn't. If you were to say things like "what about this idea? Would that be good for us or no?" and it's a scum-favored plan, that wouldn't be so bad. But that's not what you did. It was "let's do this" and it's a scum-favored plan. No town player should ever be guilty of that. When you catch a player doing that, they should be scumread for it. And if you're in a spot where you don't have time to see if something you're saying is correct or not...maybe WAIT? Until you can actually look and see if what you're saying is FALSE, before you post it. At very least, if you don't have time to fact-check yourself, you can say so. Mention that you're posting without checking, and say that someone else should double-check for you, because you might be wrong. You did none of that. You just presented things as fact that were not. That's what scum does, when they hope no one will read back and catch them. I have an MRI and will the rest of the phase. So if you have any further response, you'll have to wait for mine til post-game. Bye | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
guess any scenario where my random heal falls on a vt can only be bad better 2 make sure it goes on a medic based on recent posts from df i am moving him ahead of ff in kill order and moving my heal to df still agree with rsoul that vivax should be last lynch | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
so idk | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
healing df bye | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 15 2018 10:02 Holyflare wrote: Also I don't think my nk plan that noobking said was terrible was actually that awful. He says it ends the game in the qt but my whole point was that if we lynch wrong I 100% know it's the other vt and if mafia DO try and do some shenanigans to narrow it down further then the mafia in the medics becomes 50/50 between two people the next day. If they lynch you D3 and then use your plan N3, but pick wrong on who to nightkill between Moosy and Slam, your plan allows us to win immediately. The town is literally endgamed right there, D4 never even happens. If they lynch Slam D3 and then use your plan N3, but pick wrong on who to nightkill between Moosy and you, your plan again allows us to win immediately. The town is endgamed right there, D4 never even happens. Following the normal plan allows the Town to mislynch one of you/Slam, then accidentally nightkill the other one, and STILL win the game, IF they correctly lynch the mafia medic on the first try on D4. But they will at least get that ONE chance. With your plan, they don't. Zero chances. So that's what was meant in the Mafia QT, about how I was sure the Town would not use your plan, and how your plan can give mafia instant-win scenarios on N3. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
Holyflare wrote: I will never allow myself to be nkd or lynched purely out of spite for NK. Holyflare wrote: You are not night killing me. Verifiably false, sir! On March 15 2018 06:08 rsoultin wrote: Tbf...what you said wasn't always factually correct either. Since we're being critical right now. I have an excuse for not being factually correct though. I was a bad guy. :D | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 15 2018 09:04 rsoultin wrote: Also, I echo the props to moosy/nk. It's tough to stay that involved in a game like this. You guys definitely had a chance. You can have your opinion I suppose, but I powerfully disagree. I thought the game was lost as soon as prplhz chose not to play, and let himself get killed N1. I told Moosy as much immediately, and gave him permission to scoop whenever he wanted to. In fact, I said to prplhz IN the scum thread (before he died) that if he didn't start playing and get himself out of the N1 crosshairs, it would make it literally impossible for his team to win. I later meant to tell him to "please start playing, or just post the scum roster in the game thread" but I forgot. And as I mentioned in the scum thread, he probably would not have even seen it anyway, since he never made a 2nd post there after saying hi. So as soon as the N1 results came in, I gave up on the game. And made sure Moosy understood I was giving up, and that he shouldn't expect to have a teammate rest-of-way, because he wasn't going to. And I didn't feel bad about leaving him high-and-dry, because his other teammate had already done it anyway. Moosy apparently agreed with you (about the game being winnable) at one point, and said so. But I told him nah, it wasn't winnable, and that I was not willing to start trying. Maybe someday I'll be part of scum roster here where all of the members play. But it hasn't happened yet, and someone (AMG, maybe?) mentioned in the observation thread that they think this could be the final game on TLMafia. Maybe it is time. | ||
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