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This is amazing.
When Vivax had claimed: "Let's lynch the cop over the red-check"
When Vivax unclaimed: "I think he's town but let's lynch him anyways"
Take a step back guys and realize: we all townread Vivax apparently because what he did was bad as scum as well as as town. Like, really bad. Not just a bit bad. And while we all want to see blood, we won't fare well if we lynch a townie today. I'd lynch a lurker (yo, Prison Break, that's you) over Vivax any time.
And of course I'll take the second nomination for worst player 2017 if it turns out I hard defended scum twice :D
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On June 03 2017 21:32 Prison Break wrote:
Fidei86 calls too many people out for lurking extremely early game, unless if he's just trying to move the game forward in which case it's not a scumtell
Tumblewoods initial response seemed forced, but the way he got to a townread after it is something I see town do when they realize a push is bad, or scum when they fear people will be onto them. But if tumblewood was scum wouldn't he realize his push was thin to say the least? Like I don't see how he has scum would make such a push just to retract it after, I don't think there was enough pressure on him to already back off from it. Based on this I conclude his change of mind was genuine not calculated, so leaning town on tumblewood despite me not liking his post initially. At least he's also trying to move the game forward which is worth something.
going to throw this out here cause I may be able to get something out of it, and it may help me make reads on people as well: what are some ways to go about catching scum, especially early game? I don't expect/want people to make an entire list because mafia will adapt, but I think a few examples or short answers will help the game move forward. I'll start off, in my experience who I think are "extremely scummy" often end up being town, and the extremely active/inactives as well (although this one isn't a golden rule), and often the people I nullread end up being scum. I think this is because scum wants to blend in and doesn't try to play as townie or as scummy as possible but somewhere in the safe middle. I think last game that would be true for myself as well.
The first person PB speaks about is Fidei. Within like 2 sentences, then goes on to rant a lot about how Tumbleweed is something? Only to never pick up his points on Fidei again, but of course pressuring me once he realized ritoky was after me.
He doesn't care to really push me though he's just happy to have his vote on me and doesn't care about much else.
On June 05 2017 02:34 Prison Break wrote:
I will post a list of my reads today - I like where my vote is now (based on page 1/14, reading the rest now)
he didn't
On June 05 2017 08:45 Prison Break wrote:
Really everytime I check the thread nothing happens, and when I'm away it has 20+ pages when I come back lol. I'll see what i can do for now and the reads I won't be able to get to I will post tomorrow
he did nothing (besides a votecount, wtf)
On June 05 2017 09:18 Prison Break wrote:
LOL
I thought I was the lynch, but I got flood control'd and couldn't defend myself, I'm so glad we lynched fidei and that he rolled scum rofl
ok I will use this night to catch up and post a list
he didn't
On June 05 2017 09:39 Prison Break wrote:
I mean how many scum are there. I assume 3? one was fidei. Maybe one was AFK. So you make any conclusions on this based off literally 1 person who did or didn't fight it?
It's even in the OP. Three. You should know. You played in Generic II, and you are coached, and you could've asked your coach about this, and you could've read the OP. This is a super constructed dumbtell.
On June 06 2017 02:08 Prison Break wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2017 18:39 beentheredonethat wrote:
hahahaha fidei
I would've never caught him
good job Onegu. I'll go back to my retard corner and await the mislynch :D This is suspicious and doesn't realize I tried to kill fidei and HF says I could be scum etc. - why do you think the entire scumteam is trying to kill each other? I think this is very scummy and I wonder if you realized it or just call people scum.
You didn't try to kill him. In the final vote count, your vote is not on him. You also didn't push him.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 05 2017 09:02 kitaman27 wrote:
Day One Final Vote Count
Fidei86 (6): Onegu, Tumblewood, Tubesock, Tumblewood, Grackaroni, LightningStrike, Holyflare
Tumblewood (2): Holyflare, Fidei86, Holyflare, ritoky, beentheredonethat, Tubesock, LightningStrike, Vivax
Prison Break (2): Conversion, Tumblewood, Grackaroni, Vivax
beentheredonethat (1): Prison Break, ritoky, Tubesock
Vivax (1): Blazinghand, Holyflare, Tubesock, Blazinghand
LightningStrike (1): Tumblewood, Holyflare, ritoky
Blazinghand (0): Grackaroni, Tubesock, Vivax, Vivax
Grackaroni (0): Blazinghand
Holyflare (0): LightningStrike, Vivax, Tumblewood, LightningStrike
Conversion (0): beentheredonethat
Fidei86 will be lynched.
+ Show Spoiler [Big wall of nothing] +On June 06 2017 09:15 Prison Break wrote:
I'll be honest I'm not caught up so I haven't read any questions directed at me
I filtered some people that were the primary lynch targets and gave my opinion on them
No I haven't posted a list but I have given reads on at least half the players which is something
I'm sorry for not engaging as much as I'd like to, it's more because of being busy / I find it hard to read through everything ( like I could read through it quickly, but I prefer to keep looking for connections and read things thoroughly so I tend to read back and filter people while reading, some people take that as me "coming up with the right conclusions based on nothing", but I can tell you if I were mafia I would've just dropped random reads and posts every now and then. But right now I want to actually only post when I'm caught up / when I have good reads because I'm not scum this game. )
I think a lot of people are biased because of last game, and when you realize Tumblewood would've been the lynch prior to claiming, HF has a lot of suspicion, and people want me dead or are suspiciouos of me, I'd say that is the exact scumteam of last people and people should look if we're actually scum again or that it's just a bias.
Like I said my scumread on beentheredonethat is strong, if he has done anything in the last pages that I haven't read yet then I may reconsider, but, he did a lot of really scummy stuff early on which I pointed out so something really crazy would have had to happen for me to change my mind on him.
I think it's also scummy that people are saying that I can be scum while completely ignoring the Fidei86 flip. Yes I "bussed" HF last game but read the quicktopic and you'll see that:
- I asked peoples stances on bussing/hard defending, and HF clearly said he is cool with either
- Later on, he said "keep the pressure, I like the pressure, I'm not getting lynch" etc.
- He would get alive=scummed eventually anyway
- I was the roleblocker, he was vanilla
- Fidei was godfather
- HF townread me that game while I scumread him, in this game, Fidei was suspicious of me and I responded by calling him out on his behavior. Doesn't that make sense? Fidei as scum pushing a lot of people for "lurking", me calling him out and pushing for his lynch, beentheredonethat attacking me for it and saying Fidei is town. Like how does this not make sense from a me being town and fidei + possibly beentheredonethat being scum? Explain that to me please. Also explain why I would be so hesistant to post: last game I would make shit up and recklessly vote during night phases, post random reads, sometimes without explanation, etc. Right now I'm clearly trying to actually put effort in the content of what I say....rather than the presentation of it.
I'm sorry if i come off desinterested, I'm not, I just couldn't get myself to read through everything + I am busy
I'll try to get as far as I can and will drop my thoughts, I did plan on dropping a list, but for now I think beentheredonethat is scum and vivax is someone I want to look into more. And I've given a lot of townreads that I still think are town as well but I'll filter them to confirm Self-explanatory. Claims to have filtered people he doesn't like (that's basically me) and admits to not have done anything and excuses. wow. amazing!
On June 06 2017 11:40 Prison Break wrote:
I am filtering some people and here are some
hard townreads:
Tumblewood - had him townread prior to claim, then un cc'd blue, probably alive because rb
Tubesock - wants to go for vivax/btdt with I agree with despite him saying earlier he wouldnt, or didnt know how to feel about them, which seems like town progressing his reads, 2nd vote on Fidei
Blazinghand - town, explained this earlier
LightningStrike - "I town here I ready to redeem myself for what happened last!" motived start. Called out "James" early on. Saying he needs to keep an eye on me instead of actually saying what I do is scummy gives him towncred as well. stuff such as "Also btdt's argument is pretty dumb but don't think it makes him scum necessary. It just a dumb argument I feel." shows he at least tries to consider things from multiple angels. "Anyways we do need to figure out who we lynching today since EoD is in 8 hours." tries to keep town on the right track. Voted Fidei at some point.
Okay, so you have lots of town reads, fine, but why don't you then filter the others who should at least be scummy to you then, right? right?
On June 06 2017 13:32 Prison Break wrote:
yea so based on my reads I'm not buying this claim
but I want to hear from HF + see if someone CC's (unless if grack is right on him being VT, I really suck at judging these sandbag things you guys do here rofl, where I usually play lie=die)
????? "Based on me scumreading BTDT and townrteading a bunch of others, I am not buying this claim!"
??????????
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On June 08 2017 05:14 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2017 05:10 Blazinghand wrote:On June 08 2017 05:05 Tumblewood wrote:
vivax could maybe be town here but I just can't accept this kind of play. either he's mafia and needs to be lynched or he's town and deserves to be punished for being such a dumbass If he's town we should keep him alive, because our goal is to lynch scum, not town. I don't care about what he "deserves"—I want to win. However, he is scum. sorry, I get what you're saying, but even if I knew for a fact vivax was town I would still do this. not that I've ever seen a bad fakeclaim and didn't think the guy was likely mafia, but I have too much respect for myself to prioritize a slightly better chance of the win over letting people get away with this shit
So you're rather the guy who kicks the player who just TK'ed with a dumb nade and go on to lose 6-16 instead of saying "ah, bra, let's make the best out of it and try".
salty cyka
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On June 08 2017 05:26 beentheredonethat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2017 05:14 Tumblewood wrote:On June 08 2017 05:10 Blazinghand wrote:On June 08 2017 05:05 Tumblewood wrote:
vivax could maybe be town here but I just can't accept this kind of play. either he's mafia and needs to be lynched or he's town and deserves to be punished for being such a dumbass If he's town we should keep him alive, because our goal is to lynch scum, not town. I don't care about what he "deserves"—I want to win. However, he is scum. sorry, I get what you're saying, but even if I knew for a fact vivax was town I would still do this. not that I've ever seen a bad fakeclaim and didn't think the guy was likely mafia, but I have too much respect for myself to prioritize a slightly better chance of the win over letting people get away with this shit So you're rather the guy who kicks the player who just TK'ed with a dumb nade and go on to lose 6-16 instead of saying "ah, bra, let's make the best out of it and try". salty cyka
and you even call it self respect :O
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On June 08 2017 05:14 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2017 05:10 Holyflare wrote:On June 08 2017 05:07 Blazinghand wrote:On June 08 2017 04:34 Holyflare wrote:
Tone: town
Evidence/factual/logically: mafia
Tone can be faked Overall though mafia right. like you're not gonna take this guy on some easily fakable emotional stuff to be town Yehhhh boi no towny wants to fake red check me a day after we lynch mafia. yeah basically when we think about "who is desperate and angry" after the glorious D1 shenanny it's definitely Mafia—Vivax is coming from a scum mindset Show nested quote +On June 08 2017 05:12 beentheredonethat wrote:
This is amazing.
When Vivax had claimed: "Let's lynch the cop over the red-check"
When Vivax unclaimed: "I think he's town but let's lynch him anyways"
Take a step back guys and realize: we all townread Vivax apparently because what he did was bad as scum as well as as town. Like, really bad. Not just a bit bad. And while we all want to see blood, we won't fare well if we lynch a townie today. I'd lynch a lurker (yo, Prison Break, that's you) over Vivax any time.
And of course I'll take the second nomination for worst player 2017 if it turns out I hard defended scum twice :D FWIW I still scumread Vivax and I think what he did can only come from a scum mindset. It's possible he could be incredibly angry, irrational, self-sabotaging anti-town town, but I don't think it's the case. I think if we lynch him he will flip scum. If he is town, we shouldn't lynch him. No excuses. If he is scum, we should lynch him. No excuses. He is scum. So? Let's lynch him. If someone says he's Town and ALSO wants to lynch him this is unacceptable strategy/mindset.
Yeah. I think he's town. I'll be the auto lynch if he flips red :D (and probably if he flips green too) at this point so why not ride or die and brag post game if he flips green?
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On June 08 2017 05:18 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2017 05:12 beentheredonethat wrote:
This is amazing.
When Vivax had claimed: "Let's lynch the cop over the red-check"
When Vivax unclaimed: "I think he's town but let's lynch him anyways"
Take a step back guys and realize: we all townread Vivax apparently because what he did was bad as scum as well as as town. Like, really bad. Not just a bit bad. And while we all want to see blood, we won't fare well if we lynch a townie today. I'd lynch a lurker (yo, Prison Break, that's you) over Vivax any time.
And of course I'll take the second nomination for worst player 2017 if it turns out I hard defended scum twice :D if you're scum and you have 6 votes on you a few hours from deadline are you just gonna stick with a claim no one believes? you've gotta do everything you can to make people second-guess it.
He didn't drop it because "yo I don't get through with it", he dropped it because HF counter-claimed. That counter claim nails him as the thread wants to lynch him even WITH his claim.
so stick with it -> die, or rescind -> try.
which is doable for both alignments, thus rendering your argument irrelevant.
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On June 08 2017 05:31 ritoky wrote:
Who do you think is with PB? Hf?
Hm dunno to be honest
I'd say tubesock but he was #2 to jump on Fidei so - no.
hm I don't have a super clear "that guy is scum with PB" thought available, it's more like there's a range of people that could be it. That range is pretty much everyone except TW (claimed doc), Grack, LS, (HF)
Hf is brackets because he was super late on fidei
Grack/LS hammered fidei and I don't see scum do that
leaves a rather short range of people
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Also wait - BH was all day like "look I hammered scum I'm so great" BH actually did not hammer scum, I thought all game he was part of the fidei train but he wasn't :O
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We should all lynch Prison Break. If people stick to the Vivax lynch, meh. especially HF, like, if he thinks Vivax is town (and he said he feels so) then he should absolutely be brave enough to not lynch the guy. We have a super clear scum wagon where we can deduce enough people to put on our town pile.
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On June 08 2017 05:37 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2017 05:35 beentheredonethat wrote:
Also wait - BH was all day like "look I hammered scum I'm so great" BH actually did not hammer scum, I thought all game he was part of the fidei train but he wasn't :O
he effectively was, he just hopped off at the last minute to do some funsie shit.
ah sorry, only read the final vote count and didn't look in detail.
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On June 08 2017 05:39 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2017 05:37 beentheredonethat wrote:
We should all lynch Prison Break. If people stick to the Vivax lynch, meh. especially HF, like, if he thinks Vivax is town (and he said he feels so) then he should absolutely be brave enough to not lynch the guy. We have a super clear scum wagon where we can deduce enough people to put on our town pile.
I think he's mafia I just get those paranoia moments and conspiracy theory moments and like to hedge my bets.
Which is uncharacteristic for you but it feels good that I'm not the only one.
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On June 08 2017 05:40 Holyflare wrote:He asked if he was needed pretty early and then when people said no just voted elsewhere.
But there's no vote. There's no pressure if there's no vote. It's like "I promise to do things". I think since BH didn't actually vote, he shouldn't gain town cred.
I think we should at least re-read Blazinghand's end of day and check very thoroughly if there was honest and real commitment to the Fidei lynch. The fact that his vote wasn't on Fidei makes me feel very uncomfortable.
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On June 08 2017 05:42 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2017 05:37 beentheredonethat wrote:
We should all lynch Prison Break. If people stick to the Vivax lynch, meh. especially HF, like, if he thinks Vivax is town (and he said he feels so) then he should absolutely be brave enough to not lynch the guy. We have a super clear scum wagon where we can deduce enough people to put on our town pile.
The problem isn't that I don't think your case on PB is good, the problem is that no one has said anything to convince me how vivax's play comes from a town pov.
There isn't a real argument for Vivax being town besides what he did is objectively bad for scum.
Of course that play is objectively even worse as town, and since we all don't want to say "Vivax, you're bad and you suck", we all want to see him flip red.
The main thing why I think he is green is that I got nominated for 2017 worst play when I fakeclaimed as town to get not only the real doc but also myself lynched. So I can easily see a frustrated own player do that.
I might very well be wrong. It's a gut feeling. Logic says "lynch Vivax" as there is no evidence on him being town and there are also legitimate points from D2 that he might just be frustrated over the seemingly random GF lynch in fidei.
Holy shit I doubt my town read again >.<
Obs qt must be having the time of its life
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On June 08 2017 05:43 Holyflare wrote:
No you absolutely lynch vivax today. Of course you're allowed to case people to lynch next cycle but today it's vivax.
I just tried to look at this game from a perspective of someone not playing, not being invested, not being me.
That perspective says pretty clearly "lynch Vivax" 
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Well I don't think I'll avert the Vivax wagon at this point. And I don't know if I even want to try to do so in a serious way since Vivax disappeared yet again, which contradicts his efforts earlier. When he continued playing after rescinding, I thought he's trying to reason.
Also to be perfectly honest here - if we don't lynch Vivax (or, technically, HF) anytime soon then this whole day is a waste.
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On June 08 2017 05:48 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2017 05:42 beentheredonethat wrote:On June 08 2017 05:40 Holyflare wrote:On June 08 2017 05:38 beentheredonethat wrote:On June 08 2017 05:37 ritoky wrote:On June 08 2017 05:35 beentheredonethat wrote:
Also wait - BH was all day like "look I hammered scum I'm so great" BH actually did not hammer scum, I thought all game he was part of the fidei train but he wasn't :O
he effectively was, he just hopped off at the last minute to do some funsie shit. erm no wait http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/523517-newbie-student-mafia-xxvi-voting-thread?user=BlazinghandNo. at no point was his vote on fidei He asked if he was needed pretty early and then when people said no just voted elsewhere. But there's no vote. There's no pressure if there's no vote. It's like "I promise to do things". I think since BH didn't actually vote, he shouldn't gain town cred. I think we should at least re-read Blazinghand's end of day and check very thoroughly if there was honest and real commitment to the Fidei lynch. The fact that his vote wasn't on Fidei makes me feel very uncomfortable. I didn't commit to shit, I just said I'd swap if needed, decided I wasn't needed, voted vivax, and loled my way to the bank
Well at least I gave you a lot of town cred because I was super certain you pushed Fidei. That's what I get for not reading properly.
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On June 08 2017 05:49 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2017 05:49 beentheredonethat wrote:On June 08 2017 05:48 Blazinghand wrote:On June 08 2017 05:42 beentheredonethat wrote:On June 08 2017 05:40 Holyflare wrote:On June 08 2017 05:38 beentheredonethat wrote:On June 08 2017 05:37 ritoky wrote:On June 08 2017 05:35 beentheredonethat wrote:
Also wait - BH was all day like "look I hammered scum I'm so great" BH actually did not hammer scum, I thought all game he was part of the fidei train but he wasn't :O
he effectively was, he just hopped off at the last minute to do some funsie shit. erm no wait http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/523517-newbie-student-mafia-xxvi-voting-thread?user=BlazinghandNo. at no point was his vote on fidei He asked if he was needed pretty early and then when people said no just voted elsewhere. But there's no vote. There's no pressure if there's no vote. It's like "I promise to do things". I think since BH didn't actually vote, he shouldn't gain town cred. I think we should at least re-read Blazinghand's end of day and check very thoroughly if there was honest and real commitment to the Fidei lynch. The fact that his vote wasn't on Fidei makes me feel very uncomfortable. I didn't commit to shit, I just said I'd swap if needed, decided I wasn't needed, voted vivax, and loled my way to the bank Well at least I gave you a lot of town cred because I was super certain you pushed Fidei. That's what I get for not reading properly. Yep, clearly you're to blame here.
Okay. Let's drop this.
Am I correct in thinking that you think HF is town? And I also assume HF thinks BH's town?
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On June 08 2017 05:56 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2017 05:52 Blazinghand wrote:On June 08 2017 05:51 beentheredonethat wrote:On June 08 2017 05:49 Blazinghand wrote:On June 08 2017 05:49 beentheredonethat wrote:On June 08 2017 05:48 Blazinghand wrote:On June 08 2017 05:42 beentheredonethat wrote:On June 08 2017 05:40 Holyflare wrote:He asked if he was needed pretty early and then when people said no just voted elsewhere. But there's no vote. There's no pressure if there's no vote. It's like "I promise to do things". I think since BH didn't actually vote, he shouldn't gain town cred. I think we should at least re-read Blazinghand's end of day and check very thoroughly if there was honest and real commitment to the Fidei lynch. The fact that his vote wasn't on Fidei makes me feel very uncomfortable. I didn't commit to shit, I just said I'd swap if needed, decided I wasn't needed, voted vivax, and loled my way to the bank Well at least I gave you a lot of town cred because I was super certain you pushed Fidei. That's what I get for not reading properly. Yep, clearly you're to blame here. Okay. Let's drop this. Am I correct in thinking that you think HF is town? And I also assume HF thinks BH's town? I think HF could well be scum. I do not extend a townread or a scumread to him. I am aware that it is inherently scummy of me not to have a strong position on HF, but basically it boils down to this: I think he has played well and actively and genially, and how I'd like town HF to play. I also think he's a slippery fucker who could do this as scum, regardless as to Vivax' alignment. He seems to think I'm town, which makes me even more suspicious of him, even though he's rate and has good reason. Yes, I'm paranoid. Yes, it's scummy of me not to give a solid read on HF. but this is what I think. Actually, this kind of non-committment is so obviously "scummy" that my willingness to say this and put myself out there in order to tell the truth is a town-tell imo
But claiming your own town-tell means you're aware of it being a town-tell. It's not a "tell" if you're the one telling it.
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On June 08 2017 06:04 LightningStrike wrote:
Also btdt we have to settle HF vs Vivax today nothing more nothing less.
This isn't HF vs Vivax anymore though. It's just Vivax vs his bad play. If "bad play" wins, he flips town, if not, he flips scum - or so, I guess you get the point
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EPT
