On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
Not wanting to gift the spies a mission = reason for being a spy. Good analysis!
Oh look, here comes that negativity you didn't like or want to read.
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
Your continued defense of Sharkie and his boner for you also is duly noted.
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
On February 07 2017 23:50 RtaniSoul wrote: Silver, Question: If Sharkie had voted in favor of the mission and the mission had failed, who would you believe was the spy?
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
Your continued defense of Sharkie and his boner for you also is duly noted.
~SilverWolf77
You do know that only the worst spies would ever defend other spies?
wifom point is wifom.
i could never defend my spy buddy but then if i got outed spy people could see i never interacted with that player and presume its a spy
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
Your continued defense of Sharkie and his boner for you also is duly noted.
~SilverWolf77
Clearly we're both spies and massively associating with one another because that strategy makes a lot more sense than town players who believe that other people are wrong.
occam razor works wonders doesnt it? i mena we can have this back and forth of "well i think your wrong" all day long
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
On February 07 2017 23:57 Vivax wrote: So the latest pages are rtanisoul and sharkie pushing the notion that spies dont defend each other when there are no flips and bussing is suicidal.
pretty much.
i mena without flips you cna buddy/bus all you like cus in the end its gonna be a bunch of WIFOM
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
Obviously, B is the case. I have a strong townread on Sharkie and you believe I'm wrong or scum. We're exactly the same in that regard as your beloved grack and vivax.
then why are you not trying to persuade grack that he is wrong as well?
can you explain why scum!vivax who was widly town read at the time of his nomination removed himself?
i feel like you missing the objective things that he has done that if he is spy he is argubly playing in a suboptimal manner
On February 08 2017 00:03 Vivax wrote: I wouldn't even be so tunneled, but this happened:
During noms I asked rtanisoul who the third should be alongside grack and swika.
They said sharkie or themselves. They didn't put a fight over sending Grack and Swika. So everything suggested that they trust them, right? At least it suggested it to me. Third candidate would be the risky one, and I thought that was the consensus.
Yet when the mission is over and now we're contemplating the consequences of a failure, Grack and Swika are suddenly at the same level of suspiciousness as sharkie for them and that is something I disagree with and that doesn't look at all like it looked for them, back when I nominated.
I want to know where this strong townread sharkie and rtani soul suddenly developed on each other.
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
reading vivax right
Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom?
for someone who never played mafia you really seem to be more aware of it then you are leading on
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
reading vivax right
Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom?
If you've been reading our posts, we don't think grack would of passed the mission as a spy because they could of blamed you for it easily.
Vivax's play and behavior this game does not makes sense coming from scum which we've explained in detail and was the reason we sent him on the mission.
The Vivax/Grack towread theory is very simple. Unless they are on the same team, their townread of each other is worth noting because they have a history of being able to read each other correctly. Is it the only reason we would use to townread either of them? Absolutely not. But it does play a small factor.
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
reading vivax right
Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom?
If you've been reading our posts, we don't think grack would of passed the mission as a spy because they could of blamed you for it easily.
Vivax's play and behavior this game does not makes sense coming from scum which we've explained in detail and was the reason we sent him on the mission.
The Vivax/Grack towread theory is very simple. Unless they are on the same team, their townread of each other is worth noting because they have a history of being able to read each other correctly. Is it the only reason we would use to townread either of them? Absolutely not. But it does play a small factor.
~SilverWolf77
They do? Where do you derive this from?
Newbie game we played it they both said it. I also believed they mentioned it here
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
Obviously, B is the case. I have a strong townread on Sharkie and you believe I'm wrong or scum. We're exactly the same in that regard as your beloved grack and vivax.
then why are you not trying to persuade grack that he is wrong as well?
can you explain why scum!vivax who was widly town read at the time of his nomination removed himself?
i feel like you missing the objective things that he has done that if he is spy he is argubly playing in a suboptimal manner
So vivax playing in a suboptimal manner is ridiculous but rt and me playing in a suboptimal manner is logical?
Vivax and you have that in common. You assume the best of spies when it suits you but other times spies are the dumbest players ever...
Huh? Vivax would have to making numerous mistakes, like not sending himself on a mission he could easily put himself on as team leader, putting grack and us into nearly confirmed town status which means he can't later scumread us when we are on a mission with him if it fails-basically ensuring he has to scumread you, which would put him in the position of having to explain a scumread on someone he's been calling an IC all game. And the grack townread also plays a small part.
Now, if he turns out to be a spy, he can poke fun at us post game and say he's even with us for pushing him off scum last game when we all were town.
Also, scum defending each other and townreading each other is not suboptimal in this setup. There are only 3 of them. One mission requires 2 scum on it to fail. If they hardcore bussed even one person, they'd likely lose. So it's not dumb or suboptimal for scum to defend or protect each other.
Oh and FYI, I've voted with my scumbuddies in past games so saying scum would never associate with each other isn't true in all cases.
On February 08 2017 01:10 RtaniSoul wrote: Also, Grack, why am I mafia? You've created a scenario in which I could be a spy with Vivax based on how the votes went but there's no actual arguments for why I'm mafia in there.
It just makes sense for me as a plausible explanation for the vote count on the first mission.
My 2 premises I got from reading through the thread this morning were that sharkie is town and Silver is town.
From there I need Vivax to be mafia because this mission passed. But the first mission is very unlikely to go through if the scum team is Vivax + 2 people who aren't being town read (Say Sicklucker/EC). Things would make a lot more sense for me if the team was You/Vivax, because you both could reasonably approve the mission as scum knowing that it won't cost you the game in this scenario.
What I don't understand is that I've been saying pretty much the same as sharkie as well as a lot of other things, yet you don't townread me. Why?
I do follow your logic on why it doesn't make sense for a spy to vote for the first one if it was clean unless they have a good presence. One explanation I see is that if it didn't go through, silver would get a mission and it'd auto pass and silver's reads did not include scum for his choices. Another would be that at least this way they can get cred for voting for a passed mission.
I'm town reading sharkie because I think he's done a few things that I wouldn't except to see out of a new mafia player. That's obviously not the case for you.
The bold is actually really interesting though because I remember Silver had you as his top town read. So that's actually possible. In this case scum! Vivax would still have to have been unable to add any of his teammates to the team though.
Wait, isn't that asking (as a spy) to have two failed missions? Since the next person in line is going to pick an all resistance team as well. I think Vivax would just add himself instead of sharkie, that team would have likely passed. Pretty sure that's a better option unless in this world vivax is going for some solo carry strat with sl/tw as his team mates.
I think Vivax wouldn't send himself because he made such a big deal out of how bad it was that everyone else was adding themselves to their teams.
The only thing that worries me right now is that I've never seen what Silverika's scum play looks like.
if you want games to scum games of us you can jsut ask you know
On February 07 2017 23:45 Silverika wrote: in short (ika here):
sharkie voting no when the only person he suspects on this team is vivax makes no sense form a towns POV. a town!sharkie should of voted yes on this to confirm vivax as scum/town (becasue scum!vivax would be forced to sabbo this or next mission where as twon!viv with town!shrakie is auto win)
so basically if this mission is sabboed, sharkie is the spy who did it
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.
Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.
you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.
grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa
so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases
a) both are scum b) one is fooling the other
thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle
What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?
reading vivax right
Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games... Also what is wifom?
If you've been reading our posts, we don't think grack would of passed the mission as a spy because they could of blamed you for it easily.
Vivax's play and behavior this game does not makes sense coming from scum which we've explained in detail and was the reason we sent him on the mission.
The Vivax/Grack towread theory is very simple. Unless they are on the same team, their townread of each other is worth noting because they have a history of being able to read each other correctly. Is it the only reason we would use to townread either of them? Absolutely not. But it does play a small factor.
~SilverWolf77
Passing the first mission does not make sense for sharkie as a spy either, using that same logic of yours...
I am still waiting on a counter for this one, silver... You keep saying vivax is resistance because if he were a spy he would be playing sub-optimally. But in the same breath you accuse me of being a spy but not considering that if I were one I acted sub-optimally on the first mission by not failing it.
Note please that I am not using this argument to defend myself. It would be very hypocritical of me to do that. All I am saying is that you can't apply your logic on one case but refuse to do it on the other one. That is a very inconsistent line of thinking...
I feel like you are misreading silvers post in question here. You can't really ask this line of question either without a indirect or direct use of it becoming a defense of yourself.
She not once has said that vivax as spy is playing suboptimal. Now I might be misreading the context in witch case you can clarify to me because she is busy right now.
If you want my personal take, vivax!spy not sending himself on first mission while having a mass of town cred is suboptimal.
You not failing the first mission has a two way street cus of resistance theory, many argue to sabbo/not sabbo first mission as spy for diffrent reasons. It's more of a belief system of what you think is right at that point.
If your point still stands I'll let her respond on the issue but I feel like you are trying to aregue a smatical thing instead of the direct point. Because both things being applied are diffrent in nature
EPT
