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On November 03 2016 09:02 darthfoley wrote:I've noticed that mahrgell is asking a lot of questions, especially of NU and Calix-- basically telling them to stop attacking each other and talk about other people. I also noticed that he hasn't done this at all himself, he's only talked about Foreman and NU; with the former, his case seemed pretty meh to me, except for #3. Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:49 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 06:17 Foreman wrote:
I'd like to see some reads with original content from mahrgell. 3) Next Calix asks you about NU. Instead of answering, you refuse to answer at all, because you consider Calix scum. I believe enough people pointed out at this point that this is pretty anti-town. Considering you being worried about the town atmosphere before, this is rather ironic. The only problem is that even this isn't an original point. I pointed it out, and a few others. He even admits that this point was taken from other people.
What are you talking about? I asked him on #186, I asked again for clairification on his refusal to answer in #192, and then called this out as antitown behaviour in #195. Your first post was #229. Are you sure I copied this from you? Like seriously? And Calix was also only going at him for ignoring her questions. She didn't even mention him ignoring me.
Also don't like how mahrgell keeps giving himself outs. I understand it's D1, but his posts are littered with him.
I answered this to Calix in #330. Also currently I'm not giving myself outs on those two suspects I have. If you see me suddenly townreading them, or even just neuting them... Feel free to question me how I came to that conclusion. But I will probably tell you before as soon as I make that change of mind.
And for the other players I will continue playing both scenarios in my mind: "How would I explain their behaviour if they were scum." vs. "How would I explain it if they were town."
For my two suspects I currently lack a reasonable the second scenario -> scumread
Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:49 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 07:34 Tictock wrote:
Oh my bad mahrgell, I've been totally misspelling your name. I shall henceforth be reffering to you as gell to fix that.
What are your thoughts on Exo? - overdefended against air from Calix - retaliation vote, I mentioned I dislike those - kinda stubbornly tunneled Calix - neither of those are good things, but can also be very emotional TvT. Judging this would be easier if I knew some meta. So postponing this read for now, especially as I have higher priority lynch targets. If he thinks it would be easier knowing some meta, I expect him to go snooping and answer his question.
Feel free to fill me in about Exos meta. No, I won't read 2 billion pages from old games. I read Dota-Mafia live, I know something about Exos less than impressive scum-meta from there. But seriously don't expect me to postread all the other old games. Especially when I have hotter targets. If it comes down to an Exo vs X lynch... Maybe I will do some quick search.
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On November 03 2016 09:33 NeverUnlucky wrote:
mahr, you watching the game?
I am, but I'm a slow typer (you may have noticed by now) and was answering to Foley.
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On November 03 2016 09:36 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Can you not give the post numbers and instead quote said posts?
Okay, next time, didn't want to blow up the post though.
Advice for improving readability is always welcome.
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On November 03 2016 09:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +Really? A townie speculating about another player being blue or red? I mean, is this EVER smart? Mafia knows what color the guy is, and if he isn't red, you probably helped them in case they didn't notice. ... and because I alluded to ExO possibly being blue. Notice how he says that I am a townie aka he knows I am town while scum-reading me? This is spewing.
- read it as "can you imagine a townie speculating". I already said that I try to interpret actions from both sides. And here it completely failed to interpret this from a town perspective. Because I still don't see any motivation for a townie to speculate about it.
But I guess you prefer to grammartwist it and imply stuff that wasn't there.
Also, he fails to explain how this makes me scum. He says that my post wasn't smart, which I agree with, but doesn't say that it makes me scum.
Scum would have that blue talk in their respective QT, yes, I made a mistake by alluding to this possibility, but it really doesn't make me scum.
Okay, as you asked for the explanation, I thought this would be obvious. No, I did not see it as you hinting your scumbuddies to this guy potentially being a blue. So your argument is completely moot.
But there are still 2 scenarios for this to be scumplay imho:
a) an attempt for getting a blueclaim out early, if that line was intentional
b) if the line was unintentional... Scum has to make up stuff, has to look like they are provinding reads and content, without giving anythign away but confusion and misleads. And yes, when making up stuff, sometimes mistakes happen. So call it a slip.
If it was a) I would be very disappointed in you, but b) I consider fully in the realm of possibilities. If I weight your very weird interpretation of my "A townie speculating" and compare it to my interpretation of your bluesuspicion... I give my own interpretation more likelihood to be anything than yours.
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On November 03 2016 09:38 darthfoley wrote:
My favorite part of NU's rebuttal of mahrgell's case is the bit about towncred. The mindset is very odd; as a town, I'm not particularly worried about gaining towncred, rather, I wanna find Mafia which towncred is a natural byproduct. Bad logic and bad case
I guess I played the game wrong all the time. But knowing Mafia while being a dick to all other townies so you are ignored doesn't help the best townie.
And if you just go back to the page where my original post was posted, you can see that it was littered with trash posts from NU vs Calix. NU completely abandoned his "lets make a good town atmosphere" plan from earlier. If telling someone to be reasonable if he wants to be heard is a scumlean now... Well, I take it.
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I hate you all, now I missed the Habs game  already nearing the end of the 2nd period.
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On November 03 2016 11:05 NeverUnlucky wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote ExO_
Is this vote as serious as your last 2? Or now really based on the points made here? I should probably read Exos filter again...
Anyway... Habs game over, I can sleep now ^.^ Whoever feels throwing questions at me, go ahead, I will answer later.
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Good morning.
@Calix Do you expect an answer from me on this? I could go on a wild ramble about your entire posts, but I'm afraid I would fall back into what was criticized before. So if you want anything answers, please cut it short in some questions.
About your concerns regarding me using the term antitown. I could again explain my general attitude regarding this game. I'm not fond of throwing SCUM! around day1. But when antitown behaviour piles up on certain players, at some point this turns into a scumlean. But again we are probably using different definitions in this game here.
If theres nothing more about me, I guess I will relook the Exo situation now.
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About Exo:
I can't really add on anything to what was said in the thread here about him. I agree that the general development looks fishy. Especially the jump from his second last post:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2016 04:46 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:44 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:40 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 04:35 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:32 mahrgell wrote:gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you Sorry. It's ironic because you're insinuating that I am a bad player...but I'm pretty sure that you misinterpreted what Foreman said. He was calling me scum, not you. I am aware that he is only going after you. But as I share your concern regarding NU... And would like the same answer to be answered... He refuses to answer me, because he considers you to be scum. I don't agree on the policy of "I don't talk to who I consider scum". I consider this antitown, but I understand interpretations on this may differ. But I really dislike the policy of "I don't talk to you, because a player I consider to be scum shared your concerns". This is for sure antitown. So either he considers me scum too, or he is just antitown. Both conclusions are not really giving him any plus points in my book. It is extremely anti-town to ignore anyone save for red-checked players or the like. It shows that he is not willing to reconsider his reads and will be prone to tunnel-vision. (this is something I am specifically trying to avoid) I remain uncertain on Foreman. I'm inclined to scum-read him purely for his pathetic dismissal of my NU case (aka the most substantial post made this game) but I'm biased there as I think my case is pretty good. Furthermore, some of his posts have minor town-tells in them. (nothing convincing though) Concluding null as it stands. How can you be so hesitant to scum read anyone? All of your reads come built in with "but I might be wrong." You back pedal on everything you've said so far and leave yourself a way out. Almost as if you are afraid to hard scum read somebody because you know you are lying. I'm quite convinced you are scum leaving yourself as many outs as possible.
to his last post:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2016 15:11 ExO_ wrote:
I'm tired. I just got home. I don't feel like reading through the read. But I'll tell you my thoughts in a nutshell from the point I left.
I jumped on to Calix initially and continued to pressure him(her?) long after I thought she was scum. I do think the way he entered the thread was dumb and likely to inflame me. But his responses afterwards seemed very much from a towny perspective. I continued the pressure to see who would jump on the bandwagon with me in an attempt to press low hanging fruit.
I'll look at it tomorrow, but NeverUnlucky/foreman are both going to be the first people I look at.
Also note that he claims to not have read the thread since his last post, but not only does he adust his opinion to the later formulated thread opinion on Calix, but also wants to investigate NU/foreman first. Most of the NU/foreman drama started way later and in the period where he just claimed to not have read.
But to judge further, I still believe that a look at his meta would help in this case.
I said it before, and I will say it again: If someone who has played with Exo before would chime in on his meta, I would greatly appreciate it. Sadly this has been refused by the veterans so far.
I have read his Dota2 game(scum) live as it happened, now decided to filter read his OutlawMM(townie) game.
Skynx was Mafia with Exo in Dota2, so he should actually be able to give us some insight here. TT was in both games and saw it happen live.
So could you two maybe share some opinion if Exos play reminds you of something?
When looking at those games I noticed 3 differences:
a) the dota2(scum) game consisted mainly out of "afk, playing civ" and "hey, can anyone post a summary, too lazy to read", in general his activity was luckluster, even though he chimed in whenever the need was there - his general activity in Outlaw was way higher. He bothered to read stuff himself, called out people for not reading the thread etc. - This game reminds more of the dota2 game, as others observed.
b) day1, dota2 consisted out of him hardtunneling WoS(unknown alignment, game not finished). He didn't even bother to comment on anything else. He went either afk or continued his anti-WoS rants, just to ask for a summary on the cases on those wagons near the end of the day and again not add anything to it... His day1 in Outlaw looked different. He also tunneled Damdred at first here, later let it go. But in general he was looking way broader. He was a townie looking around at everyone, searching everyone. He basically engaged Damdred, Coag, HF, BF, Ness and in the end went after TT. - Again, this game looks closer to Dota2
c) I also tried to look into what he makes his cases off:
Town-Exo examples:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 28 2015 21:21 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2015 21:15 nooniansoong wrote:On December 28 2015 21:10 ExO_ wrote:On December 28 2015 21:08 Palmar wrote:On December 28 2015 21:05 ExO_ wrote:On December 28 2015 21:01 Palmar wrote:On December 28 2015 20:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 28 2015 20:25 Palmar wrote:On December 28 2015 20:19 ExO_ wrote:On December 28 2015 20:15 Palmar wrote:
[quote]
I'm going to guess he's talking about the post where I provided some solid thinking. We talking about the flying cows post? Or perhaps the one about the spiders dancing for the Queen of England, before eating her alive! Oh wait, just like the post with your solid thinking, none of those exist. Just because I'm a nice guy (really...) On December 28 2015 18:50 Palmar wrote:
Exo is probably town. Also, I've read about 10 posts in the thread now and checked a few filter lengths. I'm glad rayn is playing and HF has a shorter than expected filter. But I haven't really read anything from either of them yet.
The reason I'm giving exo a maybe townread is his tinfoil hat theory regarding the mason claims. Most players who construct convoluted conspiracy theories, end up being townies. (If Exo is mafia, he would already know whether or not one or more of the mason claimers are mafia, so creating a theory becomes both more difficult, and it would make him worry about appearing to have extra information). The idea here is that I called you town and gave a reason for it. For the sake of this exercise let's consider you town, because otherwise this is a pointless effort. So as a townie, you have just been called town by someone, your job is now to figure out: a) Did Palmar want to call me town and made up some excuse to do it b) Did Palmar see something he found interesting, and made a conclusion based on the evidence These are really the only two options, you either believe the reason I gave for giving you a "maybe townread", or you don't. Ticktock probably reached the conclusion that my train of thought is genuine, that I actually believe you wouldn't come up with the theory you came up with as mafia, and thus my post was sincere. Now, interestingly, it's my job to try to figure out if Ticktock genuinely liked my post, or if he just saw me post something with some reasoning and decided to call me town for it because he wanted to do that anyway. I think it's a really easy read. What's interesting to me is you mention what went down with rsoultin/coag and the masons. So clearly you've read the thread. However you've only townread me so far, which is a pretty easy call to make at this point. Which makes me think you're trying to get town points for town reading me, when in reality it was a very easy thing to do. Town reading me can't be the only thing you have to offer. There's nothing particularly insightful about going along with what the rest of the thread has said before you. Any other thoughts, any scum reads? So far I think you look far more scummy trying to win a bit of town cred, than a late-to-the-party townie trying to solve the game. I haven't read the thread. I've skimmed like 2 filters and read these last 2-3 pages. To be honest I don't believe you. If you were skimming around the part where I went off on rsoultin/coag you should know that I've been town read by most everyone. That being the case, it'd be easy to call me town, and what I said about trying to get town cred for making a townie read that everyone else has already made holds true. I had no idea anyone else called you town. If you want a full disclosure on how I obtained the read on you it was like this: I respect rayn as a player so I clicked his filter and went right to his last page. on the top of page 8 of rayn's filter there is a conversation that involves all the required knowledge for me to draw the conclusions I have drawn (both about coag/rsoultin being the masons, and the evidence I used to draw the conclusion you might be town). You'll get no town cred from me, scum Why scum rather than null? The progression of our conversation just now: Palmar hasn't been around at all for this game so far Enters the thread by by town reading me, specifically for the masons incident with rsoultin/coag Claims he hasn't read any of the thread and that had no idea anybody else town read me I'm not sure I believe his claim that he's read so little, or that he had no idea anybody else townread me. I think he's lying, and therefore I think he's scum. On December 28 2015 21:25 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2015 21:24 nooniansoong wrote:On December 28 2015 21:21 ExO_ wrote:On December 28 2015 21:15 nooniansoong wrote:On December 28 2015 21:10 ExO_ wrote:On December 28 2015 21:08 Palmar wrote:On December 28 2015 21:05 ExO_ wrote:On December 28 2015 21:01 Palmar wrote:On December 28 2015 20:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 28 2015 20:25 Palmar wrote:
[quote]
Just because I'm a nice guy (really...)
[quote]
The idea here is that I called you town and gave a reason for it.
For the sake of this exercise let's consider you town, because otherwise this is a pointless effort.
So as a townie, you have just been called town by someone, your job is now to figure out:
a) Did Palmar want to call me town and made up some excuse to do it
b) Did Palmar see something he found interesting, and made a conclusion based on the evidence
These are really the only two options, you either believe the reason I gave for giving you a "maybe townread", or you don't. Ticktock probably reached the conclusion that my train of thought is genuine, that I actually believe you wouldn't come up with the theory you came up with as mafia, and thus my post was sincere.
Now, interestingly, it's my job to try to figure out if Ticktock genuinely liked my post, or if he just saw me post something with some reasoning and decided to call me town for it because he wanted to do that anyway.
I think it's a really easy read. What's interesting to me is you mention what went down with rsoultin/coag and the masons. So clearly you've read the thread. However you've only townread me so far, which is a pretty easy call to make at this point. Which makes me think you're trying to get town points for town reading me, when in reality it was a very easy thing to do. Town reading me can't be the only thing you have to offer. There's nothing particularly insightful about going along with what the rest of the thread has said before you. Any other thoughts, any scum reads? So far I think you look far more scummy trying to win a bit of town cred, than a late-to-the-party townie trying to solve the game. I haven't read the thread. I've skimmed like 2 filters and read these last 2-3 pages. To be honest I don't believe you. If you were skimming around the part where I went off on rsoultin/coag you should know that I've been town read by most everyone. That being the case, it'd be easy to call me town, and what I said about trying to get town cred for making a townie read that everyone else has already made holds true. I had no idea anyone else called you town. If you want a full disclosure on how I obtained the read on you it was like this: I respect rayn as a player so I clicked his filter and went right to his last page. on the top of page 8 of rayn's filter there is a conversation that involves all the required knowledge for me to draw the conclusions I have drawn (both about coag/rsoultin being the masons, and the evidence I used to draw the conclusion you might be town). You'll get no town cred from me, scum Why scum rather than null? The progression of our conversation just now: Palmar hasn't been around at all for this game so far Enters the thread by by town reading me, specifically for the masons incident with rsoultin/coag Claims he hasn't read any of the thread and that had no idea anybody else town read me I'm not sure I believe his claim that he's read so little, or that he had no idea anybody else townread me. I think he's lying, and therefore I think he's scum. So you think he read a lot and is saying he didn't read anything because it makes him look townier? Really? Not reading the thread is very believable to me. Not reading the thread, yet town reading me for the exchange between myself/rsoultin/coag isn't believable to me.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 29 2015 03:48 ExO_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 28 2015 16:04 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2015 00:12 sicklucker wrote:
can we not lynch him off the fact that last game we lynched him and were wrong?
You know we should learn from history and such. He could be mafia or town but I would like to have some general idea what that is before we put one of are valuable lynches on the line
If you guys want a "real" reason why I dont want vivax lynch its because it was fucking hf's idea who I think is very likely scum I'm sure this got brought up, but SL you missed Vivax last game as barely present mafia. He's also not as enthusiastic as he was in the town game you are referencing here. Somewhere in-between I'd say. On December 28 2015 16:05 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2015 00:17 ExO_ wrote:On December 28 2015 00:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 28 2015 00:11 ExO_ wrote:On December 28 2015 00:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 28 2015 00:08 sicklucker wrote:On December 28 2015 00:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
sicklucker do you have any real reason to not lynch Vivax? Ill know his alignment 99% of the time by day 3. Here if we lynch him its a stupid gamble. Like hes just such a godamn easy read and people keep lynching him and its pissing me off. Literraly my last game I said lets not lynch fucking vivax day one and then town went and did it. DONT FUCKING DO IT AGAIN ITS VERY BAD SOOOO BAD I think i can read Vivax aswell. Why is he town then? you really think Vivax is a better lynch candidate than somebody like BF at this point? From the people who have posted, yes. I have to disagree. I get that I might not be able to make the same metareads as others here, but is Vivax really THAT scummy to this point? Everything that makes Vivax scummy (low post count, not contributing a lot) BF is worse at. At least Vivax is somewhat active in the thread. People posting = more information. People like BF not posting do not add any information at all. Exo's a cool dude. Def keep him alive. Re-looking at TT's filter, these posts were back-back. He tells SL that he missed Vivax as mafia in the previous game, implying that Vivax could be a mafia sliding by this game, but then says to keep me around for not wanting to get rid of Vivax? It doesn't make sense. Am I misreading it or? Either way I think I might be more inclined to go back to TT
ScumExo
+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2016 10:46 ExO_ wrote:Hello all. I hate day 1 but I'll be here. I'm ready for all the baseless analysis that always goes on. I have not really read the thread yet, but the first thing I notice is: Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 10:09 WaveofShadow wrote:
Of all of the 378 heroes in this game I find it kinda funny I got this one. It's one of very few I'm actually aware exist, and it's also strangely appropriate given my name.
Some shenans defs gons be possibles this game. Keep me alive a while, k? For those that aren't aware he's referencing the hero dazzle, who has an ability called shadow wave. Dazzle also has an ability called shadow grave, which prevents people from dying. So to anybody who's vaguely familiar with dota, he's basically coming out immediately and claiming some form of doctor. I don't think the doc should come in and announce themselves right away. This looks hella scummy to me.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 26 2016 20:34 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2016 20:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On October 26 2016 20:27 ExO_ wrote:On October 26 2016 20:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On October 26 2016 20:23 ptmc wrote:On October 26 2016 20:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On October 26 2016 20:20 ptmc wrote:On October 26 2016 20:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On October 26 2016 20:16 ptmc wrote:On October 26 2016 20:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
You know, it'd be a good idea if all the people up for lynch claim their roles. I can help that way. can you elaborate on your "help"? Removing would be an apt way of putting it. So you help the people up for lynch by removing them? wtf It was a cute way of saying 'hit them until they die' I get that, but in what way does that help the people up for lynch? That you save a lynch on them? On October 26 2016 20:24 ExO_ wrote:
That's odd. Viper doesn't have any rival lines with any of those heroes. In fact he doesn't really relate to them from anyway. I understand that this is a mafia game and not really true to lore, but it doesn't make sense on the surface.
I'm skeptical right now. I'd be less skeptical if I knew if any of those heroes are in the game.
Something is off I have like 15 heroes or something in my objectives total. You went from 5 to 15. Alright idk what your objective is but I'm fairly certain you are lying. If it looks like scum, and walks like scum.... I never mentioned having '5'. You asked me to name some and I named some. Naming them all would be very silly. You can argue semantics all you want, but to list 4, then specifically mention 1 other implies 5 pretty heavily. Otherwise why add legion commander to the list you mentioned? Especially as viper. Viper is the most boring ass hero in dota and for him to have a complicated role like this makes no sense. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to use this argument, but I cannot see a world in which the game designers used Viper (one of the heroes with the smallest amount of lore and fewest "rivals") to be this super complicated role with interactions to all of these different heroes. You are lying.
What is different? To my reading, and from reading his overall filter, TownExo questions peoples motivation for what they do. ScumExo instead goes after semantics, fishing for "hey, you clearly scumslipped here with that line"
What did we have in this game? When he started firing back at Calix, this actually was more fitting to what I described as his town meta. But what I missed later was a continuation on this theme. But nothing came. So in this regard his play here seems somewhere between the two games I skimmed over.
At this point I'm inclined to scumlean Exo. This leaves me with the "problem" that I now have 3 scumleans, which is one too many. And neither Foreman nor NU really convinced me to change my opinion on them. I guess I will have to take a step back and read again, as one must be obviously wrong.
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On November 03 2016 19:58 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 19:47 mahrgell wrote:
Good morning.
@Calix Do you expect an answer from me on this? I could go on a wild ramble about your entire posts, but I'm afraid I would fall back into what was criticized before. So if you want anything answers, please cut it short in some questions.
About your concerns regarding me using the term antitown. I could again explain my general attitude regarding this game. I'm not fond of throwing SCUM! around day1. But when antitown behaviour piles up on certain players, at some point this turns into a scumlean. But again we are probably using different definitions in this game here.
If theres nothing more about me, I guess I will relook the Exo situation now. An answer to the parts which are the most pertinent to you would be lovely, yes, given that you are the subject of the posts. However, if you are going to do something else then I would prefer to see that first. As long as you don't expect me to forget about my points on you then you should be fine. Can you just expand on your second paragraph? How do you usually find scum in games? What is your MO?
MO? Sorry, I only know abbreviations I picked up during the 2 games I read.
But regarding on how I scan for scum IRL, I think I pointed it out enough. I try to interpret everyones actions from a townie POV and from a scum POV. At some point I will fail to create those interpretations and this is where I dig deeper. Scum has usually 2 options:
a) make up stuff
b) reinforce shitty assumptions by townies
Meanwhile a townie sees what I see. So if I feel myself completely unable to follow the line of thought of a player, this is a scumlean for me. In the end, I have to judge if the different judgements made by other players are due to different character or due to hidden agenda.
And well... I prefer to play a rather high volume game, just to leave less gaps and more easily track the thought process of people. Sadly this is much harder online than IRL, as players can just go afk here..
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About Rels. I agree with basically none of his reads, pretty apparent with his 3 top town being my top scum. But there is one thing you can't blame him for: Trying to blend in. I would love to see him explaining his controversial reads.
Mainly I'm interested in:
- why does he town NU
- why does he town Foreman - I can see people not agreeing my concerns regarding foreman, but seriously, what has he done to make him a townread???)
- what makes foley scummy? - "hates post" okay... Tell me more.
Share your thought process. I haven't seen any reasoning on those reads and admit they don't make sense to me.
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In general: I will have family time starting in about 4 hours... until Saturday noon. This will reduce my activity drastically, I will probably mainly phone post from time to time.
In case you consider lynching me and want to throw questions at me... I would love to answer them before.
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Oh, and even if you are set to lynch me... Feel free to ask me out about other players.
If you lynch me, I would prefer my death to be meaningful. :D If all my posts were about myself, this would not really fulfill this goal.
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@Calix
I answered your case earlier.
On November 03 2016 19:47 mahrgell wrote:
@Calix Do you expect an answer from me on this? I could go on a wild ramble about your entire posts, but I'm afraid I would fall back into what was criticized before. So if you want anything answers, please cut it short in some questions.
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On November 04 2016 00:37 Skynx wrote:Bad stuff:Mahg Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:28 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 03:17 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote:
NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. ![[image loading]](http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq303/neko_riddles/Fighting_Over_Marisa_From_Touhou_Pr.gif) So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. You think it's illogical for me to immediate claim VT before posting a gif? Give me a break. If anything your attempt to get me to revert to gif posting only and now trying to throw shade on me is indicative of your scum alignment Why so defensive, mate? :< "Give me a break" after two trivial questions is much of an over-exaggeration, mang. mahrgell (spelled your name right), what do you make of Exo and Calix's lil" chit chat so far? c: 1) I'm very proud you got my name correct this time. Maybe we delay your lynch a few days! 2) Calix: Looked to me like an "let's start the game" thing, I don't share Exo's interpretation that Calix wanted to silence him. This does not tell anything about Calix though. Could be fake activity, considering that those pathetically weak early attempts rarely lead to much information, could also honest interest in starting something. So nothing here. 3) Exo: his retaliation seemed... weird. I don't see a point there. I guess I could consider it something meta'ish that you blindly accuse everyone day1 to be mafia to "apply pressure and get things going". So either minor scumlean or just some broken metashit.4) conclusion: I consider it for now as TvT, if it is MvT I would lean more in facor of Calix being the townie, I doubt it is MvM, but well... people can prep the most stupid shit before the game... Let's wait and see PS: if anyone is not a he and wants to be called a she... tell me... Otherwise I use internet rule #1 and consider everyone a male. Bolded gives two opposite directions of having a lean on Exo. "Wierd and pointless" for a scum perspective for overreaction and "pressure and get the game going" for town perspective. He looks quite uncertain about both regards by his specific wording.
I explained my way of thinking often enough, I will try to find explanations for behavior from both POV. Exactly as I did there.
By now I figured this gets me sr rather often. But no, I won't change it. I still believe in it being the good way, and if you are willing to read my posts from the POV i explained several times, I hope you can understand them better. Is it different from the "lets ignore all interpretations that dont fit my case and just point at one side of the medal" approach, that is so prominent here? Yes. Is it worse? I don't know, I don't think so. But maybe having both approaches in the game is actually helpful.
Then this happens: Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:59 mahrgell wrote:
@Exo
so, you are sticking with Calix as your prime scumcandidate? Exo replies yes. Mahg says nothing.
Here I would prefer to have you read it without filters...
How things went down:
- Calix and Exo engange, Exo scumblames Calix (and I consider him weird)
- Foreman joins the fun, charging at Calix
- Exo turns silent.
This for the moment looked like a typical "start something and then go quiet as soon as someone else takes over". So to fill the gap and keep Exo responsible, all I wanted is to have an update on his position. I got the update, this was all I needed.
On November 03 2016 21:42 mahrgell wrote:
And well... I prefer to play a rather high volume game, just to leave less gaps and more easily track the thought process of people. Sadly this is much harder online than IRL, as players can just go afk here..
All I wanted. Keep track. Have him state again if he has changed his mind or if he is still on it. May turn out useful later, may lead to nothing.
Mind you this is like the only thing going on in the thread other than Calix vs NU. Then he goes after NU, accusing him of not following up on Exo vote and posts this. Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:22 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 04:17 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:14 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:10 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:01 mahrgell wrote:
@Foreman
Now that you noticed your misread. Are you still going after Calix, or have you shifted your focus on NU?
Would the argument you made for Calix also apply to NU? Or where do you see the difference there? The fact he isn't voting ExO does not make his push any less disingenuous. Knock knock, Calix is here, asking you to read my NU case like a good dear. Is my NU case also disingenuous? If so, how? Considering you've yet to acquit yourself for that shady ExO push, I'm not concerned about your NU push when he isn't even here to respond to it. Why not? Following multiple leads is not bad for town. And even if we flip Calix in the end, no matter what color it is, having his talking points discussed would be beneficial to town. So I can't understand that refusal to comment on it. Especially as I would be very interested in your opinion. Don't worry, we won't forget about Calix. And if you feel it got forgotten, ust bring it up later again, if someone wants to balem you for it, just forward it to me. Where is your follow up on Exo then?
Nobody asked me about Exo, and I had an active talking point I wanted to explore first. If this is the same to you as refusing to answer a very clearly directed question... Can't help you.
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On November 04 2016 01:44 NeverUnlucky wrote:
mahr, still here?
Back again now. I at first just wanted to answer skynx post about me. You want me to answer the rest of skynx post? or anything else?
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On November 04 2016 01:57 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 01:55 mahrgell wrote:On November 04 2016 01:44 NeverUnlucky wrote:
mahr, still here? Back again now. I at first just wanted to answer skynx post about me. You want me to answer the rest of skynx post? or anything else? I would like you to read my answers to Calix and re-adjust your read if applicable. ^^
Haha, let's see if we can readjust this 
Most of what you posted towards Calix actually does not really concern me. I don't share too many points with Calix on you, and your explanations on why you now consider Calix to be scummy again do not weaken my own ideas.
But there was one part which in a way also adressed my points.
On November 04 2016 00:45 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Breaking my ‘promise’ to keep discussion civil :
I have never made such a promise. It was the way I approached the game at first, trying to favor discussion by being civil. This is due to feedback I’ve received last game, and keeping a positive thread atmosphere being one of the three town leader ‘pillars’.
I also do not see why you are scum-reading me for this. I had a pro-town intention at the start of the game. There is even a progression in my posts showing how I went from ‘‘let’s be nice’’ to toxic. It’s not an inconsistency if there is clear progression of my mood/tone.
Flip-flopping my read on you :
Fair enough, though I’m kind of always doing that, so I don’t really think it’s AI.
Let's say it like this: Your defense reads as "because I'm emotional". This is, at least in the case of this game and how it developed, not a trait helpful to town, but I also said, that sometimes things looking like antitown play can be explained by character.
I consider you good enough to be aware of your image, especially towards me, as you know exactly what I know about you regarding meta. So I consider it to be a clever mafia play, or well.. you just cant escape yourself as townie. Call it Null! Can be both. (in before someone calls me scum for presenting both my interpretations again)
About the Calix vs NU, I at this point think you both are again clouded in emotion. That's why I asked you multiple times for reads outside of Calix, as I consider those way more useful to town, and those would also help me to judge you better. Your NonCalix conversation also drags in others, while at this point nobody else wants to take part in your private grudge duel. So it also gives more to read from other people.
This is something you very lately improved on. This is actually tempting me to move you back to Null. For me you are certainly not the guaranteed town you are claiming yourself to be, but the more reasonable NU is also certainly worth keeping around.
So for me my topscum are now Foremen (since my vote on him I haven't seen any post by him making me change my mind the slightest...) and Exo (explained earlier in my post with the metastuff).
At this point I would like to reevaluate Skynx and Foley, but not sure I can get it before family time :/
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I post, and in the meantime suddenly TT gets votes... I guess I have to revisit him too.
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On November 04 2016 02:16 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 22:54 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 21:37 Rels wrote:On November 03 2016 21:30 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 21:24 Rels wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 ExO_ wrote:
Also to clarify why I'm claiming my VT role right now:
I'm getting it out the open right now. I think in a game this size trying to fake claim to get scum to target me would be a waste of time. So I'm letting everyone know now I don't have any abilities I cannot do anything at night and can only vote. You can choose to either believe me or not, but I'm telling the truth This makes ExO very likely town Explain. 1. It is obviously anti town to seriously claim VT at the start of the game. Scum usually don't do obvious scummy things, on the contrary they try to be townie. It's WIFOM, but in mafia the simplest explanation is often the right one. 2. It removes ExO's ability to fakeclaim if he's scum, which is a great tool as scum, and even more in semi open setup like the one we're playing. Eh, I like this thinking but I think your first point is moot since Exo stated several times that he doesn't think his claim is bad for town. I'm actually seeing more of a disconnect between how much he talked about why he claimed and yet never realized why that claim might be bad.I suppose since this is a newbie game I should elaborate on why a VT claim is bad for town. Basically it makes mafia's side goal of killing off blue roles that much easier. If you are VT and claim it is essentially helping mafia blue hunt by narrowing the pool of people they want to look into. Why do you "like this thinking" if you admit that his first point is null and you don't respond to the second point? If it's all null or NAI, what is there to like? TT's discussion of Rels seems super off to me.
I can indeed see a townish interpretation to what Rels said here and can see myself saying the same(stylewise, not in this specific case), so I disagree with you for now. But I would actually like Rels to answer this himself, to see if his motivation matches my thoughts.
But regarding the VT-claim... I consider this massively overblown. Honestly, every role in the game can find a good explanation to VT-claim. At least IRL I'm quite sure I have seen games with everyone VT claiming in the first 5 minutes. I was more surprised by his explosive defense than by the original claim. I would have probably just laughed it off as something normal.
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Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 23:59 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 23:35 Calix wrote:
Also I'd appreciate your opinion on Rels in that Newbie game since you were largely uninformed and all that. Honestly I don't really recall it was a bit too long ago, I'll go skim to refresh my memory though.
Ah, yea he seemed like obv town that game due to how gung-ho he was right off the bat and his interactions with Lunatic (and lunatic flipping scum) made it super obv he was town. I don't feel like comparing the games is a good way to read Rels though, I've seen him be lackluster as town when he doesn't have much time and super active and involved as scum when he does. Giving it more thought I might actually give Rels a slight townlean because as scum I think he'd be more worried about how he presents his reads, here it is more like he's just sharing what he's got so far. Ticktock says two lines before that you shouldn't compare games with Rels, because of his variability, then gives him a slight townlean based off of what can only be characterized as meta analysis off of previous games. Why would you think his scum play is likely to play out one way or another when you've just admitted that he has various playstyles?
Again, I disagree. I consider the first line to be a metaanalysis on activity (= you cant meta him on activity).
While the second is more of an analysis on general town/scumtraits.
Imho you are just tunneling here, and try to spin things so they fit your foregone conclusion.
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EPT
