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Calix
3379 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 07 2016 04:43 Rels wrote: Hello NeverUnlucky, hello Calix. I see that you are both new to this forum and that you both signed up for the two games currently open for signups. If you are not newbie from forum mafia in general, disregard what I'm going to say. A game a forum mafia takes quite a lot of daily time, ideally you should take at least 1h per day to play properly, and some people commit way more than that. Since you are both signed up for two games at the same time, I will warn you about it; if you are new to forum mafia and are doing something fulltime during the day, I would not recommend you to play two games at the same time. But if you're like a student and you have a lot of free time, it is possible. Again, if you're not forum mafia newbs, sorry for this ^^ I just wanna make sure you do not underestimate the time a forum mafia game can take. Ello there. I wouldn't describe either of us as particularly experienced (NU is relatively new himself while I've been playing for almost a year) but we herald from the same site and neither of us lurk out games or anything like that. Both of us are students; I have a lot of free time for the next few weeks myself. I understand that lurking has been an issue in the past so this post is just to say that this won't be the case with regards to myself. If there's anything else that people want to ask/ remind us of then they're welcome to go ahead. | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
Shapelog wrote: Hello Cal and NU, Welcome to the scene. What are you currently in school for? What would you say is your strongest part of your scum and town play style? What do you struggle with? Do you think you have what it takes to out-joke me? I ensure you, that 57% of your answers will be considered. 1. I'm going to be taking English at university. 2. I'm fairly consistent as both alignments. Apparently my scum/ town play are also very similar. (personally I disagree but I am biased since I know my own alignment from the get-go so we'll see what others have to say on that point depending on what I roll) I'm persistent and can usually get my scum-reads lynched since I'm typically one of the more active, influential players in the thread... 3. ...however I'm terrible at reading players correctly. I'm also prone to getting tunnel-vision and becoming complacent with my town-reads/ not reading them properly once I've decided they were town. 4. Nine times out of ten, no. | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
On September 07 2016 16:22 Vivax wrote: Hello Calix. My name is Vivax, you can call me Vivax., we have many things in common, like the number of letters and the last letter. I inofficially run the newcomer assessment on the TL mafia subforum. Before playing here, some players must go through the procedure of answering a few questions designed to establish their general ability to answer questions and assess their abilities. Shapelog amusingly tried to mimic this procedure in an attempt to take a jib at me (and most likely at you). Rels does the security checks for newcomers. Most of these questions are designed to perfection the game of mafia. I will consult with kitaman afterwards who is the head of the database department and is developing an automated behaviour processing system with the help of Palmar who is the assistant who codes words per post algorithms and similar minor things. Let's start: 1. There are two guardians, one by each door. One guardian always tells the truth, and the other guardian always lies. What one question can you ask a guardian to find out which door leads to heaven? 2. If you would be an animal, what would you be? 3. If I posted this post in game, what would you think my alignment was? 4. What's the size of your ego expressed in football fields? You may choose to express it in bathtubs if you so wish. 5. Think about the colour red for 10 seconds. Then name a tool. This sounds like some sort of personality test more than anything else. Wonder what I'll learn about myself today, eh? 1. "If I asked the other guardian which door leads to Heaven, what door would they point to?" The truthful guardian would tell you that the lying guardian would point to the door that doesn't lead to Heaven, thus revealing the door that does. The lying guardian would claim that the truthful guardian would point to the door that doesn't lead to Heaven. (this would be false as it requires the truthful guardian to lie) In both cases, the guardians would reveal which door doesn't lead to Heaven and thus the other door can be picked. 2. A cat, because they're independent, commonplace, and can sneak around places without drawing a lot of attention to themselves. 3. While posting a generic post is something that a scum would do in order to look like they're contributing, it could also be something that town would do in order to glean information about a player. I'd lean towards 'town' (have put the lines in bold that would have given me that impression had this been posted in a mafia game) 4. Two bathtubs. 5. An axe. | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
- Names aren't allowed in Last Wills but if you wanted to reference a player (e.g., say you're a Sheriff-Vig who wanted to say "I checked X/ this player is innocent/ guilty") then you could quote some post numbers by said player, quote something they said, etc. I don't think LWs will be that useful for the protectives unless nobody died on a certain night because telling the scum who was protected last night in the event of a kill just needlessly gives the scum information on what the healing roles are thinking. If anyone knows what the Doctor roles would even need to tell the town (aside from telling us who they scum-read or something) then I'm all ears. - There's always the chance that the scum can interfere with the message being given. Although they can only rewrite LWs twice, we can't rely on the LWs much but I think it's good to establish a way for the dead townies to communicate with the rest of the thread because I'm not seeing a way that the scum manipulation of the LWs/ votes can be prevented. - We might want to be careful with policy lynching apathetic/ inactive players or being sloppy with CFDs in general. I've been told that TL is more open to policy lynches compared to where I come from, but since lynched players become Sheriff-Vigs, I think it would be suboptimal play to give lazy players a KPN in the early stages. This point might be moot, however, as I don't know how anyone here plays or if anyone would qualify as policy-lynch material. (save for NU who I wouldn't consider a policy lynch) Anyway, hi. It's pretty late for me so if I randomly drop off, don't be surprised. | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 06:46 Shapelog wrote: PL's here basically refer to Meta, inactivity, Behavior, or just the basics of scum hunting (I.E. Obv scum) I am guessing when you said NU cannot be a PL, you meant activity right? I mean activity, yeah. On September 09 2016 06:46 Vivax wrote: Bolded seems like fluff tbh cause you don't seem to have any own ideas to contribute for this part. "we have to find out what to do" . Who would've thought. Your last point is also pretty uninformative. It's like you're suggesting not to lynch. Doesn't look as bad as your second though. But still. You get a bit of benefit of the doubt for this being your first game here, but if somebody is meh for me right now it's you. My point says we shouldn't rely too much on LWs but that establishing good communication with the dead is important. While that's not some profound insight, there are clearly ideas being expressed here. What are you even referring to with the bolded part? Because it bears no resemblance to anything I said. "suggesting not to lynch" - No, I said we shouldn't rush into a lynch or policy-lynch early on. Nowhere did I imply that we shouldn't lynch. (which isn't even possible, lol) "benefit of the doubt" - No I don't. Just because I'm new to the site doesn't mean I'm clueless. | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 06:59 Shapelog wrote: Hmm, I wanted to say vivax came into the game and only has pointed out sus, things in other people's posts (aka following mafia agenda). But he did play around a little bit with skynx and palmar post. I don't follow. Why would the opening posts be AI/ indicative of town as you suggest here? I just saw them as weird meta references and trolling so I'd like to know where you found potential townie motivation. | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:00 Vivax wrote: What do you mean with "we should establish a way for dead townies to communicate" then? Cause to me it reads exactly like "we should do stuff" without having an idea of how to implement such a feat. I just suggested a way in which Sheriffs could communicate their results to the town by saying "they can get around the no-names rule by using post numbers" which is literally giving a suggestion as to how we communicate with the dead. On September 09 2016 07:00 NeverUnlucky wrote: Also, she infered that town had PRs before they were lynched which shows she didn't correctly read the setup. It's NAI, but To add to your point about her fluff: she used words like "we" -- Scum tend to use those words more than town to fit in the group. Scum!Calix uses "we" a lot. She ends her post with an excuse to why she wouldn't post in the upcoming hours. It's something scum tends to do more, but it still is NAI. Scum-reading Calix. @Vivax, don't give me or her the benefit of the doubt because we're "new", we aren't. We're both familiar to mafia. Giving either of us (especially her) a chance, it could be all we need to fly under your radar. Using the correct pronouns is not a scum tell and never will be. You just used it yourself in your last line because it's a common word in the English language. Also seriously? You are aware that I moved to a different site to get AWAY from crappy meta reads and the first thing you do is give me shit via a crappy meta read? | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:14 Shapelog wrote: So you read is really on: So....Your scum reading her, based off of (meta) pro-noun usage. Sson. Its not. I am not calling vivax town lol. That post is basically NAI about vivax (as of now). I thought he came in and only posted sus. towards players, but his two earlier posts weren't that. Later, if he does, those two posts won't matter if all he is doing is shading people only (or roughly only) only reason I posted it was to spark some more discussion lol. What makes you think he was throwing shade on other players (as opposed to say, trying to start discussion or scum-hunt)? I have my own thoughts below but would like your taken on this. While I feel like he was misrepresenting what I said (with saying that I was 'suggesting we should No Lynch' when that's not possible and 'you haven't given any ideas on how to communicate with the dead') I can see someone trying to be provocative to get a reaction or move the conversation in a more productive direction so I'm not confident in my read of him. I'm also biased by default so I'm not sure wherever my scum lean on him is due to the "he's pushing me so he must be trying to mislynch me" bias or because he legitimately strawed my points. Leaning towards the latter given the examples above though. | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:16 NeverUnlucky wrote: It's a very mild scum tell and always will be. Yes, I used it in my last line... in a different context. The "we" I used referred to you and me, not the town. Nice misrep attempt. Ugh, I know, and I apologize. I won't use meta anymore. :3 In regards to your LW point: you stated that town should use surnames/quotes to refer to X player and then mentioned that scum can manipulate LWs. So you knew that what you were going to say wasn't going to be helpful for town anyways. Why did you feel the need to mention this? What do you think of my first post? How did you think that town had PRs before they were lynched? It's a PRONOUN. Bloody Hell, if you're going to start a tunnel based on this, you're going to be useless. That wasn't a misrep because I was using it to say that your point sucked, not to discredit you. Scum can only manipulate LWs twice. The game is going to go on for more than two nights. There is going to be at least one accurate LW in there, no? Don't care to look. Where did I imply this again? I forget. On September 09 2016 07:19 Vivax wrote: But that's about your first point, not the second one. Which makes it look to me like your second one might as well not be there. Proceeding with the dissection: There's always the chance that the scum can interfere with the message being given. -> yes, but what's the point of saying this. Although they can only rewrite LWs twice, we can't rely on the LWs much -> And yet you suggest a plan that seems to deem them important. but I think it's good to establish a way for the dead townies to communicate with the rest of the thread because I'm not seeing a way that the scum manipulation of the LWs/ votes can be prevented. -> Cause scum can manipulate LW, you want LW to be reliable communication? These two statements don't mesh together. Why? Cause scum can manipulate LW, no LWs are reliable. Main point being: I found your second point there to just be fluff. The point is that we can't trust the messages too much but that it's still a good idea for the dead town to try and communicate with the rest of the thread anyhow. (trying to post correct information > not trying at all) I'm not sure how saying "hey, here are some ways that the town could try to communicate info via their LWs" is a bad thing. I also didn't say "LWs are reliable" and openly said that we shouldn't trust them...which is something that you note in the rest of your post. I'm not seeing how you're concluding half the things that you are from my posts. | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:30 NeverUnlucky wrote: Yes, it's NAI in most setups. I just don't believe it can be a town slip in this particular setup. My scum-read on Calix is not a strong one yet. It's mostly a gut read. I want her to respond to my posts and convince me she's town if she is. No, moron. I'm not going to waste my time on 'convincing' you that I'm town. Nothing you said holds any weight. Go figure that I can't get a break from people scum-reading me for the worst reasons. In any case, pretty sure you are town given your fixation on this 'scum tell' of mine. By all means continue to waste time asking 20 questions though until you wise the fuck up. | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:36 NeverUnlucky wrote: [quote=Calix]Scum can only manipulate LWs twice. The game is going to go on for more than two nights. There is going to be at least one accurate LW in there, no? Don't care to look. Where did I imply this again? I forget. Stating the obvious. Ugh, you're already pissing me off. Here it is: On September 09 2016 06:45 NeverUnlucky wrote: I'm not sure how games are started here, so I will do some setup speculation. The "Death Whisperer" is a heavy counter to TPRs. + Show Spoiler + Death Whisperer Win condition: Win anytime living mafia members equals or outnumbers living town members. Ghost curse: Once per game at night, you can target one player. If that person is protected by the benevolent ghosts' protection, he will die. If that person is targeted by the spirit's KP, he will protected from it. Death tracker: Spectral (can be used even if dead). If you successfully killed someone with your ghost curse, you will have access to the Benevolent Ghost QT after your death. You won't be able to post in it. If you successfully protected someone with your ghost curse, you will have access to the Vengeful Spirit QT after your death. You won't be able to post in it.] Using a TPR ability unwisely can backfire terribly if countered by the DW. Do you think TPRs should act every night? If we ML today, the Vengeful spirit should not use his vigilante shot today as the DW will 100% target one of the three mafias. He has no reason to target townies as the Benevolent Ghost won't exist by then. Therefore, using the sole vigilante bullet N1 has the most chance of it going to waste. It is preferable to do an alignment check on any player and keep the shot for the following nights where the DW won't necessarily target a mafia. Your thoughts? You implied this in your first post. You said: "Names aren't allowed in Last Wills but if you wanted to reference a player (e.g., say you're a Sheriff-Vig who wanted to say "I checked X/ this player is innocent/ guilty")" [/QUOTE] Ah yes, because the person who tries to meta-read me right off the bat is the person who deserves to be pissed off between the two of us. Yeah no. I still think TPRs should use their actions every night. Agreed that Vig shouldn't shoot N1 - it's a mid-game thing given that Vig cannot shoot if the game hits five players. Pretty sure someone already said that TPR-directing = bad so won't harp on about that. You get a Sheriff-Vig when someone is lynched, yes? They can use their LW to say "I checked X". On N2, the next person to get lynched can say "X is inno/ guilty" (in retrospect, telling people who the Sheriff checked N1 is kind of dumb but that's what I was saying at the time, not implying that town had TPRs before N1) What are you suggesting here? I don't know wherever that's an insult, a compliment or some comment on my alignment. | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:48 NeverUnlucky wrote: You do, but they cannot interact with the town anymore. They share a QT, yo. Their LW will be ones they had as Vanilla Townies. Sorry for pissing you off :3 If this is true then most of what I've been saying is inaccurate because I assumed that when someone died they immediately turned into a TPR... ...but where does it say that the VTs don't get access to the QTs before the end of the night in the setup? | ||
Calix
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On September 09 2016 07:53 Vivax wrote: For me Calix remains meh. Emotional doesn't mean town. To make it very simple (since the discussion might seem like we're trying to split atoms here), look at this quote, and tell me why it's good that we have a way of communication BECAUSE scum can manipulate. It just doesn't make sense. There is no causality. Whether you have a way of communication or not, it's not going to influence the manipulation. So I concluded that this looks like text put in here for the sake of putting something in there. Since the scum can only manipulate two of the LWs, I was trying to say that having the legit LWs be presented clearly was a good idea. I was trying to think of a way to make LWs useful to the town despite the obvious handicap of "scum can change them" However I've since been convinced that the LWs are largely pointless given that the dead townies won't be much more informed than anyone else, but I figured I might have been onto something at the time. In any case, I won't be talking about that much anymore. (that's not me saying "oh don't bother questioning me about it because I changed my mind" btw. Even if I was being pretty dumb, I can still talk about what I thought at the time) | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 08:03 NeverUnlucky wrote: You didn't explain your read on him, LMAO. "Obvious town" doesn't convince anybody (Maybe Eggy). Which points do you disagree with? How are you scum-hunting? I don't recall reading any of your posts with a comment as to why X would be scum nor pointing out the fallacies in people's posts. Explain. Can you cut the crap with referring to Eggy every game? Nobody here knows who you're talking about and it's petty. Pointing out fallacies =/= scum-hunting. Going "oh you misrepped me and made an appeal to emotion" isn't the same thing as detailed analysis. Vivax's post that I responded to is a MUCH better example of legit scum-hunting even if he's wrong. Maybe try emulating that instead of going "boom! Found a scum tell, gg no re" I don't agree with Damdred that he's scum-hunting. He claims to be using POE (with town-reads) but that is not the same thing imo. Otherwise not sure what he would be referring to. | ||
Calix
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On September 09 2016 08:12 NeverUnlucky wrote: ^ This feels somewhat town imo. I think that scum would either keep on saying that they were right or back off earlier when they were called out for it to avoid interactions. I do not like this though: It looks like you pulled a NU if you know what I'm saying. It's cute that you're using a point I once raised against you in a previous game against me, but no dice. Your post that you refer to (where you went out of your way to call yourself a 'noob' and characterise your contributions as holding no weight) is not the same as my post where I specifically stated "you can still question me about X point" This does the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you're claiming I'm trying to do. (avoid accountability for my posts) For anyone reading this, NU and I are referring to a past game here because NU loves his meta. Expect more pointless references, folks. | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 08:17 NeverUnlucky wrote: Fluff. Fluff. Fluff and shade-throw: My attitude in no way suggests that I am certain that I found a scum and that the game is 'geegee no re ez'. btw you said 'geegee' without the e's, get modkilled, nerd. That's what I said. I was calling you out on making posts such as "fluff, misrep" etc because they're stupid, aren't scum-indicative and persuade NOBODY because you don't explain your thought process when you just post the name of the logical fallacy of the week or whatever...and you proceed to do exactly that instead of listening. I'm done talking to you until you pull your head out of your arse. | ||
Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 09:24 Tumblewood wrote: there is one thing I have on Shapelog that makes me feel really smart. I think he is town because of his setup spec early game, because it shows that he is genuinely interested and not doing it for town cred because setup spec is generally something people scumread you for. not 100% but I'm sticking with it. other people: vivax is probably town just for tone and care-ness calix looks town and NU looks scum to me. even though their entrances were the same from a surface-level point of view, calix feels more genuine and helpful. Damdred interests me but I do not yet have feelings toward his alignment "Doing X gets you scum-read so anyone who does X is town because scum don't want to risk the negative attention" - Isn't this argument based around WIFOM? I don't know what this site's view towards setup spec is but I consider it NAI. It's commonplace on my home site. I don't disagree with the conclusion but I dislike the reasoning. Your NU scum-read doesn't make sense. Why would the fact that I 'feel more genuine and helpful' have an impact on what NU's alignment is? You just used someone else to give a scum-read on another player. You say our entrances are the same on the 'surface level' so how do they differ underneath that then? So Damdred's a null? Not sure why you included him - why does he interest you? | ||
Calix
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On September 09 2016 09:39 Tumblewood wrote: see, the argument looks like wifom, because it is, but scum!shape is better at looking town than town!shape and is unlikely to do setup spec imo re: NU, I implied that NU did not feel genuine. sorry if that was unclear. and the genuineness was what differed, more or less. and ya Damdred interests me because of how he wants to form a town circle (and also his posting style - more on that eventually) already but I have not yet determined what this means about his alignment. WIFOM and meta, two of my favourite things ever. Well I can't comment further on that read since I've only been in one game with Shapelog (which tells me nothing) and I'd rather remain ignorant so that my reads aren't tainted by subjective interpretations of how someone acted in a previous game. Also I hate being meta-read myself. Can you point me to where you felt that NU was insincere? Or explain why him confusing you so much means he's less likely to be scum? I don't relate to your thought process so far. Personally I think trying to force a town circle just creates friction and increases the chance of scum getting into one. I don't think he was doing that though, just said he wanted to lynch outside of his town circle...which is basically going "I will lynch a null/ scum read over a town read" so I don't think there's much to be found there. | ||
Calix
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On September 09 2016 10:48 Holyflare wrote: I will never in 1000 fiery years vote anyone other than ticktock today. A* post. I especially liked the part where you followed up on this bold declaration with some solid reasoning and a vote. While that gets worked on, I'm finding Tumblewood ignoring the posts where NU and I pointed out some of his odd reasoning (he reads me as more genuine and helpful than NU so NU is scum and I'm town with no chance of TvT/ WvW? wut) to be increasingly conspicuous. I'll see if he responds but I am 100% expecting a followup. I find it hard to understand where Tumblewood is coming from with his posts which makes me wonder if they're written with a different mindset to mine. What makes Ticktock worse than Tumblewood given this? In any case, 3am over here. I'm taking my leave. | ||
Calix
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- Superbia is really townie given his setup-spec talk and stream-of-consciousness style posting and I don't see scum ever entering the thread like that. Also I agree with the reads he's posted. Palmar's flippancy is also kinda town although that might just be his personality. He wasn't amazingly involved in the setup talk but the way the conversation progressed made me feel good about him. - Don't like Grackaroni. It feels like he's just hanging on the sidelines; he wasn't very involved in the discussion and most of the posts I read while catching up seemed like he was posting for the sake of looking active. Like there were a lot of places where he could have posted something substantial and he just made some joke comment instead. - I don't like Tumblewood still. On September 09 2016 14:03 Tumblewood wrote: i'm just not gonna waste 4 hours explaining myself to some scrub who thinks he's caught me in a lie see? it's not even my reads that are unexplained. it's my non-reads. like I have to waste my time explaining why you're all scrubs and I'm not scum for saying something but not drawing a conclusion from it but that makes it seem less bad if it's only one of 8 posts you've seen sorry nvm you're scum + Show Spoiler [in case you couldn't tell] + that was a j o k e and I still think he is town can I just complain about new players for a sec? cause I'm reading some posts by NU and he keeps attacking people for being lazy. I get the intentions and that may or not be valid on your home site but here on TL lazy is the meta. it's like a competition for who can look the laziest each game. I want to sheep you hf but after last game I'm paranoid I'll take "avoiding the main points being raised against me" for £200, Alex. Add a dose of unnecessary off-topic whining about Teh N00bs. Oh noes. That last line is really scummy. It's the classic "oh I'll give lip service to lynching X scummy person but then I'll give some bullshit excuse to not follow up on it" scum tactic when the scum feel compelled to talk about their scummy partners but don't actually want to bus them - there is literally NO reason to not vote for Ticktock at this point in time. Paranoia isn't a logical excuse - wouldn't you want to clarify your suspicions by pressuring Ticktock? Why is no-voting better exactly? - The only point of Holyflare's that I find compelling is Ticktock's contradiction ("I find setup spec boring, here's some setup spec") since it makes his point look like filler. Everything else is just background noise compared to that point imo. tl;dr: Grackaroni/ Tumblewood/ Ticktock are my scum-reads and the fact that they are low-key defending each other just makes me feel more confident that lynching among these three is the best option. | ||
Calix
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On September 09 2016 20:31 Superbia wrote: So: - I'm town - My one townread is town. - All my mafia reads are mafia. Good reads. In all seriousness, nice pocket regardless of your alignment. Townpass-ish! What do you think of NeverUnlucky? You've played with him before, right? I have. He's a scrub but he's town. He's more proactive and abrasive compared to his scum play. He gets mislynched a lot given he's presumptuous, arrogant, prone to trolling, has poor persuasion abilities, etc, so I am not surprised that he's under some suspicion. I am also 99% sure that he's read like, one or two past games on this site and that's why he's acting like he knows what everyone's meta is. Recently, he read one of my scum games from five months ago and now thinks he's an expert. That's how he rolls. | ||
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On September 09 2016 20:41 Superbia wrote: Is he prone to be abrasive and yet form no actual opinion on someone? He calls TW 'lynchbait', which suggests he is TRing him, but nothing suggests he is reaching any actual conclusion. Seems weird to put seemingly that much energy/emotion into something but reach no real conclusion. Oh wait, forgot to add. He is prone to hyperbole ("this Village Idiot making a bad move is LITERALLY GAME-THROWING GUISE") and being emotional about random crap. Anyway, I think what you're referring to there is his tendency to make 'cutting' comments for the sake of making a cutting comment. Not sure on his intentions with the lynchbait comment - I just assumed that he had decided to read a TW game or something so worth asking about that. I remember my last game where he was town and he was discrediting one of his town-reads a bunch. Not that I am any better given that I'm calling him a moron and a scrub in this game but it's not scum-indicative of him. | ||
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If you can call NU's reactive, apathetic, fearful posting style that is devoid of any scum-hunting a scum 'game', then ten minutes of hailstones can be classified as an avalanche. | ||
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On September 09 2016 21:53 Grackaroni wrote: No I'm just posting here while I do my homework thereby accomplishing neither while increasing the fun of both. That also means I haven't and will not sleep today, which means you should expect a greater amount of uselessness than usual. Then you should square that uselessness when I'm in the presence of Palmar and/or Shapelog. Anyway, if there's anything specifically you want me to comment on, I'll do so. I've had three hours of sleep, which is my norm, and I am still contributing. I'm not fishing for content for you to comment on when that's your job. Town should not reach out to a player, the player should reach out to the Town. The lack of initiative is real. | ||
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Then I remembered that a certain someone made this post about him... On September 09 2016 09:51 Tictock wrote: I like this guy, this is a solid post. Contrast to Skynx here First to post, been around, fucks off without saying anything and right about when things start happening. ...and this is a pre-flip but it makes me feel a little bit better about Skynx as this feels like Tictock is throwing shade on Skynx as opposed to giving a legit read. Just the way he compares two players gives me that vibe. Not a strong point though. Other than that, I'm unimpressed. | ||
Calix
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I think this post relating to Grack/ TW/ TT are telling though. This was kind of what pinged me when I was catching up earlier. It felt like Grack/ TW were ganging up on HF with shoddy reasoning once TT was under fire. TW's 'paranoia' seems so damned convenient because it reads like he's wielding it to push back against HF. On September 09 2016 17:00 Grackaroni wrote: That's pretty much my goal every game. I'm done crafting long posts at the start of games. I'm at the same place as you on Holyflare though. His case (removing the "I like this post" part) essentially states: *Ticktock made a wifomy entrance post. *Ticktock stated he dislikes talking about setups and then talked about the setup, which is a contradiction, but he'll have to sell me on why it's a scummy one. Would the post be scummy if he made his post without stating that setup discussion is boring? Also, to end up here after reading the posts seems like he's going way overboard. | ||
Calix
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On September 09 2016 22:41 Grackaroni wrote: But which is it?! Is he trying to skate by with low content posts or is he not coming back from dinner? He did have a better start in that last game. If he's actually just bad at playing as mafia I'll vote him. Also I did not hard defend him. What I did is what we call in the business a "chain saw defense." The idea is to hit the accuser with the chain saw while the other scummer has him distracted. "I didn't defend him that hard, I just enacted a type of defense which is where I attack the accuser even though I haven't stated a town-read on the accused." That's what I just got out of your post. | ||
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On September 09 2016 22:50 Grackaroni wrote: No but there's a key distinction here. In my opinion for it to be a hard defense I would have to provide arguments NOT to lynch ticktock. I did no such thing. My game plan was much more subtle. Here I avoided the hard defense trap while still landing a powerful blow. Well what is your read on Ticktock then? You haven't made your stance on him clear. What is your point with your last line? Why would you need to 'avoid a trap' anyway? | ||
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On September 09 2016 23:39 Skynx wrote: quality post here guys give him tcred asap I wasn't aware that you were available to post until you decided to comment on someone talking about you. Anything else you want to add at this time? | ||
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On September 09 2016 23:47 Vivax wrote: Are HF and super actually willing to call skynx mafia? Cause that's what TT said too, who could also be mafia. TT feels like he's imitating players from last game (trfel, Palmar). so far But certainly I don't see anything that looks forced like HF claims. Not really a fan of that wagon, while fuba is. But maybe fuba just doesn't know the context of the scum claim and the argument on skynx. And TT isn't that stupid to not expect people from last game to notice. 1. TT didn't say that Skynx was mafia. He just made a comment expressing suspicion about something Skynx had done. That's not the same thing. Also I already made this point earlier. 2. What is your point with fuba? I'm not sure what you are arguing here or why you mentioned him at all. 3. 'TT isn't that stupid' - Poor argument that implies that you subscribe to "too scummy to be scum". Get a better one please. | ||
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NU, maybe back off and see what Skynx does when they finish catching up/ are not playing Overwatch or what the fuck ever and then resume this. | ||
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On September 10 2016 00:06 NeverUnlucky wrote: Alright. In the meantime, what are your reads? Already explained my scum reads. Not hurling up a reads list for the hell of it when all that does is give scum more information than necessary on how I operate. Ask a more specific question if you actually want to pry into my alignment. "What are your reads" is the most basic bitch type of question that only makes people regurgitate opinions without noting anything new. | ||
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Oh, are you two are being serious? I can't tell. tl;dr: TT/ TW/ Grack for scum. Not sure on Vivax and Skynx. Everyone else is either a town-read or "town by statistical probability because they haven't done anything scummy" and I don't care too much to differentiate unless one of my legit town-reads gets trained or something. Really elaborate stuff as I'm sure you can see. | ||
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On September 10 2016 00:49 Tumblewood wrote: truth nu vs. skynx is TvT. as long as skynx isn't voting me I will sheep him because I am 90ish percent sure he's town and his voting record is about twice as good as mine. this subject to change if/when I lose confidence in that read or get pissed at someone Why is Skynx a strong town-read for you? | ||
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And why? (for the scum-reads at least) | ||
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On September 10 2016 01:06 Holyflare wrote: I feel like calling you an incredibly massive hypocrite and in fact I am. But you're from the UK so I'll let it slide. No. It's not hypocritical when a) Vivax has not explicitly stated his scum-reads (whereas I did) and b) I only asked for explanations for his scum-reads, not town. | ||
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Strong counterargument. I am utterly hapless to defend myself. Tell me where Vivax has made his town/ scum-reads clear in his ISO and I'll recant. | ||
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I'm glad I did because I'm not impressed with yet another person saying "NU/ Calix are both town" (which almost everyone agrees with, thus it's a safe position to take) complete with town-reading GRACK and having one scum-read on someone that he's only recently started to push. And the cherry on the cake is remaining neutral in the TT/ TW debate. I don't see how you can have no insight on those two by now. | ||
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On September 10 2016 01:23 NeverUnlucky wrote: Also, fuba tried throwing shade on me previously. Calix, what conclusion do you make of your last post? What is yo' new stance on Vivax? Pretty obvious that I suspect him more after those reads. Referring to fuba? Well he gets points for talking about someone who has barely been discussed before. However I don't find his case to be a compelling one. It's just a generic "this particular player is coasting" call-out read but he hasn't said anything scum-motivated so I would not be inclined to vote fuba just for that. I really dislike the "not a surefire way of telling scum but enough for the usually shitty D1 lynch" line. Also I think he butchered the fuba quote he was talking about in the last part of his post because it doesn't make much sense to me. | ||
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On September 10 2016 01:27 Vivax wrote: What's the point of all this Cali, you think I should just talk about people everyone else is talking about anyway? No thankserino. I look for scum where I want, it has always been this way. The most interesting thing that stuck out to me so far is probs that TW didn't call you out for doing association based reads like he did with me last game. Maybe he did, need to dive. Your argument is that TW, TT, Grack all interacted with each other in a way that suggests they're a team if I'm not mistaken. Next step would be to see if TW jumps on that cause I lynched him with a similar argument last game. I'm also a person who tends to connect dots to catch mafia at some point, sadly with excessive fantasy sometimes, but when scum flips it can be surprisingly effective. Before... Meh. It feels great to pursue that line of thinking but it can backfire. Uh yes? People generally have opinions on popular topics of discussion, especially when suspects are being discussed. Why would you not want to give yours? Even if you don't think you have anything new to add, saying something like "I agree with X" is still better than nothing. What game are you referring to, Hype Mafia? So associations/ narratives? | ||
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On September 10 2016 01:38 NeverUnlucky wrote: What is your take on the Vivax - Superbia showdown hen? Please tell me you aren't going to go read other games to meta-read someone/understand someone's behavior... duh I prefer to have the person I'm talking to answer my posts, not a spokesperson. I don't consider it a 'showdown' actually, just two people being jumpy around each other. Vivax analysed some of Superbia's posts, Superbia responded and Vivax repeated the points when stating his scum-read on Superbia. Also Superbia accused Vivax of OMGUS which seemed out of nowhere, but I don't remember Superbia's previous scum-read on Vivax. Granted, I only skim-read it so this opinion is shit, but nothing Vivax pointed out is that scummy (seemed more theoretical, like when he was saying "Superbia could be trying to make Calix scum-read NU", so stuff like that is too...abstract (for lack of a better word) to appeal to me) I didn't see anything that only scum would do from either of them. I might reread that later and revise my 'thoughts' but don't hold your breath. lmao. This game is active/ spammy enough for me. Hell no am I going to look at this thread and decide "ah yes I shall spend time reading another game". I haven't properly looked through any 'filters' yet if I am honest. I'd rather try and motivate myself to do that before EOD and see if I can find something. That whole 'finding shit that only scum would say' is why I'm not full-on scum-reading Vivax, by the way, because while scum COULD play like him, I don't recall him doing anything that only scum would do. Don't know if that makes much sense but that's where my thoughts are atm with him. | ||
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On September 10 2016 03:10 NeverUnlucky wrote: A spokesperson, eh? I wasn't speaking on Vivax's behalf, the comments I made were my own. Cut off being cold n' oblivious to me. With all the inferences you've made so far, you're no better than the pussy-footing Cryptonic, SJ, and DW. Be direct or GTFO. He is my strongest town-read, so, yes, you will need to filter his posts and make a case on him for me to have a paradigm shift. No. "you're no better than the pussy-footing Cryptonic, SJ, and DW" - I laugh at this. What makes you town-read him so strongly? If you don't want to explain yourself then just ignore this post and I'll take the hint. | ||
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I'm back to thinking Vivax could be town again. I should probably take notes so that I stop freaking out every time Vivax does something possibly vaguely scummy but nah. And now that I'm not so skeptical of Vivax's intentions, I'm actually starting to see the case against fuba. He rarely gives his own views, preferring to use other people to push them forward (lots of "I agree with this" or "this" kind of posts) which not only shows that he lacks initiative but it's a way of evading accountability for pushing certain positions. If a position backfires, it puts him in a place to attack the person who initially proposed the idea. He is self-centred (saying things like "I disagree with this being scummy because it can apply to me") which is self-serving because it shows that he is paying attention to how his actions could be perceived by others and that he's trying to not associate the things he does with scum. There is this post where he sets himself up for making crappy posts for...most of the game. On September 09 2016 11:46 fuba wrote: C) I have no idea what to do D1. It tends to get me in hot water early. Really, I'm not all that great until a few days have passed. Great at hyper-analyzing everything everyone's said at a later date, though. Also I was going to quote the posts where he says "oh I disagree because I do X thing" but my internet decided to turn into a snail halfway through with quoting so post numbers are 242, 245, 246 (pg 13?) Anyway this is enough for me to move away from TT at the very least. Even though I can't say I town-read TT, fuba's filter is more problematic. He had no problems voting for him (as Vivax noted earlier) and bandwagoning a scum mate on Day 1 seems like a dumb strategy for scum to take, so I doubt TT/ fuba are a scum duo. | ||
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On September 10 2016 04:36 Holyflare wrote: Let me ask you Calix, what if he does the same in every game? Does the post become not scummy and not: If you're claiming that he says that every game then it becomes NAI for him. On September 10 2016 04:40 NeverUnlucky wrote: What was sensationalist about meh post? Which filters did you look into? Vivax and Fuba? Why do you now think Vivax may be town? It looks self-serving that you state that you now town-read Vivax and scum-read Fuba in the same post. Especially since you are following my vote and these two reads are ones I share. Why do you say "I can't say I town-read TT" rather than saying you sr/nr him? The wording is bizarre to say the least... Back to null-reading Calix. 1. You really have to ask? You claimed that fuba 'scum slipped' and used the fail logic of 'conditionals are really scummy guise' (which you already know I disagree with) 2. Vivax and Fuba, yeah. 3. Because I reread his posts and realised that the things I was individually suspecting him for didn't hold up when looking at the bigger picture of how he was playing. 4. Because I can't say I town-read TT? Duh. Someone else being scummy doesn't invalidate the original reason that I scum-read TT. (which still hasn't been addressed iirc) What are you even expecting to get out of asking that? 5. Good. I'd rather you fuck off. | ||
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On September 10 2016 05:03 NeverUnlucky wrote: Backing off from your read. Uh, I said that the addition of 'when' to a conditional was scummy. Conditionals themselves are not. By adding 'when', he implied that he knew that TW was going to flip town. That's the slip. x You have to admit that the timing is odd. Why not just say you sr TT? It looks like there's a barrier between what you say and what you think, alike scums. You knew exactly what you were getting into by /signing into this game. Of course I was going to annoy you, I am not ever giving you another free pass. I'm not fucking off, deal with it. 1. I'm not 'backing off my read' you moron. If someone does X thing every game, it means it's NAI. Nowhere did I say or imply that I was reconsidering my fuba scum-read because I'm not. 2. Point. 3. No it isn't. See below. 4. Because scum-reading TT and fuba doesn't make sense as I don't think both of them are on a scum team. Therefore one of them has to be town. But I don't actually have anything from TT's posts to town-read him. This isn't hard to comprehend. 5. So you admit that you're specifically targeting me more than you would anyone else...because of one game where you deliberately chose not to read any of my posts and ended up losing the game for town. Holy shit. The fact that you feel entitled to do that just because of a fuck-up that YOU made in another game is unbelievable. | ||
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On September 10 2016 05:18 Holyflare wrote: ^ this is still where I stand at fuba, if he doesn't start to contribute more in the allotted timeframe that he has given himself then I will be after him or you will be or whatever today is TT or Grackalackin depending on what TT says which I wager will be 0-5 posts complaining about me and saying something is crap and not much game playing Just to clarify, are you claiming that self-awareness in general is a town tell or that fuba's meta is to be self-aware as town or something else? If it's the first point, why do you consider it a town trait? | ||
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How is fuba obvious town? I see a bunch of people going "never lynching him" and the like but I didn't see anything that went into more detail on how this is the case. I don't like his excessive focus on NU's 'scum slip' re: lynchbait and I don't understand why you wouldn't vote for NU earlier (which would start a wagon on a player that a lot of people town-read) rather than keep the vote on the TT wagon. My vote is going nowhere unless I see an actual decent case for town!fuba and simply saying "meta" with no explanation is not going to cut it. Why do Damdred and Holyflare have votes on them? The former seems like it would be a rushed train since he hasn't been talked about much. I get the whole "lurking in the background and not saying much" idea but that's generic and doesn't relate back to how he's specifically scum and not just Generic AFK Player #308550. If he's town, we get nothing from his lynch and the lack of discussion around him means he's a poor train even if scum. For the purpose of a D1 lynch, he's not a good option. I would need to reread the chat properly to understand where Holyflare's voters are coming from. What I remember was him using points against TT that also applied to fuba (but with no explanation for how fuba is town??) and some of the voters think his cases suck compared to his town game. (meta!) If I missed anything incriminating then I'd like to hear it. I think Grack looks slightly better from his HF/ Grack arguments. | ||
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TT's train doesn't have any solid town-reads on it and that train has been poorly-contested for most of the day; it's been the leading wagon ever since HF scum-read him for the setup spec post. I don't like the odds of a good lynch down that route anymore. I don't trust TW so this makes me skeptical of a HF train. I notice that quite a few people seem to scum-read him but his train has never taken off. If people could chip in with their thoughts on that, it would be good. | ||
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On September 10 2016 23:27 Holyflare wrote: I mean who says they've skimmed and haven't read properly and asks why there's votes on me but then in the same post explains why there's two people voting me???????????? ALSO who decides to note vote someone based on good evidence just because they semi don't read the 3!!!!! out of 13 people on the wagon???? Not to mention I'm pretty sure she town read me and agreed with my points. Also first 1/3 of filter is arguments with her town read NU. Rest of it is just lots of giving out free wishy washy town reads and flip flopping on vivax, I think there's one real case but that's on town Fuba. I was asking for a case for why they thought you were scum because things like "his cases aren't as good as they are when town" aren't something I can give an opinion on because I don't know your meta. I've also explained my thought process in regards to TT which is clearly shown in my filter. I initially scum-read him, then had doubts about his static train and the people voting him and then I switched my vote after reading fuba's filter. That's also a horrible characterisation of my filter. I had scum-read Grack/ TT/ TW together earlier, then revised that when I read fuba's filter and my town-reads aren't 'wishy-washy' whatsoever. I stated who they were and why and that was that. You haven't explained how fuba is town as of yet. In fact, NOBODY has. Why is everyone just ignoring him? Also, she slipped when she talked about setup spec, saying that town had PRs. Someone who rolled town would know which town roles are in the game. That's the first thing they would check. Additionally, her LW talk seemed coming from a mafia trying to appear like he's helping town perspective. It in no way helped town. If anything, her proposition would have given mafia more freedom to frame those LWs. btw, I will not post a LW. Any LW attached to my death is a framed one. There's also the meta points that make her 100% mafia in my eyes. I will list them later if need be. @Calix, they're not the shitty meta-reads you usually get scum-read for i.e. being much less active than usual. They're actual things you've only said as scum and will only say as scum.[/QUOTE] I didn't say town had PRs to begin with. I already explained what I meant there...? You have no meta points on me. It's impossible for you to have any because you've only read ONE scum game of mine from FIVE MONTHS AGO. One game =/= meta. Again, you have no idea what my scum meta is. You're too focused on 'scum slips' which aren't scummy so I expect anything I say will be ignored by you. Honestly. | ||
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On September 11 2016 00:44 Tumblewood wrote: but if we get to 30 minutes before EoD and town has still not seen the light I will consolidate because he's not a bad wagon if you can get past the people on it. and then if he flips green we vote Hf. simple. I don't agree with lining up HF as a lynch for tomorrow which is what it looks like you're doing here. If you think HF could be scum pushing a bad wagon, just vote him now instead of doing this? Like what is your thought process here exactly? Can you please explain how you town-read fuba? I really do not see it. | ||
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On September 11 2016 00:45 NeverUnlucky wrote: stfu scum, no one cares what you think. You can't counter my arguments because you know I'm right so you resort to the "lol scum ignoring you" response. Quality vote, 10/10 | ||
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On September 11 2016 00:50 Grackaroni wrote: I still haven't actually read a bunch of stuff so bear with me. Vivax is town for the rest of the game because he made this post after I wasn't contributing anything but pissing Calix off. There actually is a noticeably difference between my play this game and my normal scum game, so he actually did go through the effort to read through games to compare. Plus I was being discussed as a lynch possibility at the time. Fuba has a pretty weak scum game and I don't think it looks like this. Thus he is town. Calix seems too abrasive to be scum and had a strong opening. If it turns out you have really good points that could change. You had a townie opening. I like Tumblewood because he's on the same wave length as me, and also he's putting himself at the risk of the wrath of Holyflare. If Holyflare is town I don't think scum TW would want to put himself in HF's cross hairs because TW's scum game can be pretty shaky. I think HF has a good chance of being scum as outlined earlier. The rest are null. Perhaps Palmar is a bit below null for how useless he has been while not yet attracting any votes. I'm also playing around with a bit of a crazy theory of HF and TT as a scum team. I don't know how plausible that is but I realized that if HF was on a scum team with TT that could have caused him to view TT's posts through a lens that makes them look scummier than they actually were. Better stuff will probably come around 3 hours from now. If someone could just take five fucking seconds to EXPLAIN HOW FUBA IS TOWN USING THIS GAME, for the love of God. I don't think your theory holds water. Any scum leading the charge on a scum mate D1 basically throws themselves into the spotlight and would have to justify why the scum haven't NKed them from a very early stage. Also means that scum!HF would look really suspicious if he lynched correctly D1 and survived until LYLO. So my take is that if HF is scum then TT is almost certainly town. | ||
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On September 11 2016 00:59 NeverUnlucky wrote: Yes, you said town had PRs. You suggested that a sheriff-vig would leave in his LW who he checked, thus claiming town has PRs. Yes, I have meta points on you. I read TWO scum games of yours, plus I was in your last scum game. That's 3 games, scum. Someone lynched on Day 1 gets their LW published at the end of Night 1 which is AFTER they turn into a TPR. Not only is your argument false, it's not even a fucking slip. Show me these 'meta points' and I'll show you how you're wrong. You mean that last scum game which you're tunneling me for this game because you want revenge? It's incredibly obvious that's what you're doing, dude. If this is how you're going to be from now on, I'm just not going to play anymore with you. It's either "CALIX IS THE BEST" or "CALIX IS 100% SCUM" with no in-between. Can't just treat me like a normal player, can you? | ||
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Let me go reread his filter in light of this and I'll get back to you lot. | ||
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One question though to Holyflare. You said in this post that you town-read fuba because he is self-aware about playing like shit... On September 11 2016 01:10 Holyflare wrote: I'll tell you why fuba is town so you stop bitching about it and actually do something more useful. Fuba's point about knowing he plays shit day 1 is self awareness to the max and actually seemed quite honest in that regard. You say it could be mafia making excuses but I didn't think so in the beginning of the game and his play has countered his own meta because he's actually made points about NU. But when I initially posted the case, one of your responses was to ask me how I would react if I was told that fuba made self-aware comments about his shitty play every game... On September 10 2016 04:36 Holyflare wrote: Let me ask you Calix, what if he does the same in every game? Does the post become not scummy and not: So Holyflare, where exactly do you stand here? If fuba makes that comment every game, why are you town-reading him for it? If fuba doesn't make that comment every game, why did you ask that question in the first place? | ||
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On September 11 2016 01:30 Holyflare wrote: I never said he says that every game it was just to see how you'd react if he plays the same every game (ignoring the post). I don't even know how fuba plays and I don't really care. That switch from not playing day 1 to inquisitive person that thinks they found a slip and makes posts about it is very hard for mafia to fake. Uh, you DID say that. You just phrased it as a question which implies that fuba makes that kind of comment every game and never said otherwise until now. How is it a reaction test? The answer is obvious because a behaviour repeated by a player every game means that they do the behaviour regardless of alignment, thus said behaviour is NAI for them. With this in mind, what were you hoping to get out of that? | ||
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On September 11 2016 01:38 Holyflare wrote: No you made a shit case on a town read of mine, perhaps you should read my comment again. You said that fuba os mafia because he's setting himself up to play like shit with that post which is a mafia post. I'm simply asking if it becomes null if he plays like that every game and also since I got the opposite impression from the post when he posted it. I fail to see how it's a shit case, especially to you, when you made similar points against TT and Grack. I didn't say "fuba is mafia because he made X comment" - that is only a PART of my case against him. Even if he hadn't made that comment, the rest of my points stand strong. You didn't ask about wherever it becomes null. (you said 'not scummy' which is not the same thing as 'null') You haven't said what you were hoping or expecting to get from my reaction. | ||
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On September 11 2016 01:47 NeverUnlucky wrote: Calix, since you don't s-r the Vivax anymore and are leaving fuba alone for today, who's in your sights for today's lynch? Good question. I don't have a fucking clue. Grackaroni is looking townier the more he posts; nobody else scum-reads fuba; I town-read Vivax, you, Superbia, Palmar (shitty town-read but still); TT's train is shitty and if he's scum, then the scum are doing a horrendous job at diverting it (hardly anyone has questioned it which makes me wary)...I'm starting to feel like a lot of the scum are among the lurkers and I don't know how to sort them. Either that, or they are the sort who are good at looking townie on Day 1. | ||
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On September 11 2016 02:08 NeverUnlucky wrote: Simple yet genuine question. Are you town? Yes, moron. I really appreciate you going into the game with the intent to use meta when you knew full well that I moved to a different site precisely to avoid being 'meta-read' for retarded reasons. Thanks a fucking lot for ruining that. Instead of wasting more of my time with personality tests, try asking something useful. As a side note, I looked back at the cases to see how similar they were and while they weren't as similar as I remembered them being, I figured I'd announce where I was coming from anyway. I'd like to say that I am not quoting the entirety of the cases made here, just the parts that struck me as similar to my fuba case. (spoilered) + Show Spoiler + On September 10 2016 04:31 Calix wrote: And now that I'm not so skeptical of Vivax's intentions, I'm actually starting to see the case against fuba. He rarely gives his own views, preferring to use other people to push them forward (lots of "I agree with this" or "this" kind of posts) which not only shows that he lacks initiative but it's a way of evading accountability for pushing certain positions. If a position backfires, it puts him in a place to attack the person who initially proposed the idea. He is self-centred (saying things like "I disagree with this being scummy because it can apply to me") which is self-serving because it shows that he is paying attention to how his actions could be perceived by others and that he's trying to not associate the things he does with scum. ... I was going to quote the posts where he says "oh I disagree because I do X thing" but my internet decided to turn into a snail halfway through with quoting so post numbers are 242, 245, 246 (pg 13?) On September 10 2016 09:20 Holyflare wrote: Grackaroni sin counter: Tries to base someone else's bad scummy play on HIS OWN meta as if everyone plays as badly as him: ^^^^^^^ WHO DOES THAT?????????? I mean, didn't fuba do that when he was saying shit like "I think TT's case is good but some of the weaker points could apply to me" and whatever? On September 10 2016 09:58 Holyflare wrote: But in this case I actually do think that Ticktock is mafia because: This isn't exactly the same though because fuba hasn't ONLY just posted one-liner posts agreeing. He's just expressed his agreement with others a lot. And fuba definitely made posts where he was inconsistent with his positions. (the other bolded point) | ||
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On September 11 2016 02:25 NeverUnlucky wrote: It was not my intent. I only came to this point after seeing you copy-paste your scumtelling post from FF7. I still apologize for doing it. I couldn't resist throwing meta in my read. Slap me. I did. I asked you who was your target today. What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't copy-paste shit and why the actual fuck would anyone copy a post made in a SCUM GAME? I don't know. I just think that Tictock is going to end in a mislynch because nobody is doing anything to stop his train. Grackaroni spent more time explaining how his posts weren't defending Tictock than he actually did diverting the train and I know I am town. That can ONLY MEAN TWO THINGS: 1. He is town. 2. The entire scum team are so inactive that they don't give a fuck about stopping a lynch on their team mate. Option 1 is infinitely more likely but I'm not sure how to stop it. I'll going to reread Holyflare given that he's the only alternative at the moment and I've yet to read his filter properly. I don't really town-read him but I don't scum-read him much either. Since I town-read you, your thoughts on him? | ||
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On September 11 2016 02:35 Damdred wrote: You forgot a option tbh, the third option is tt didn't want to play as scum and at least one team mate is light budding with the intent to jump on when the train looks like it,had no breaks,for cred. COukd it be town tt just going down with the ship, yes it could. But there is no logical reasoning town should defend tt is there? For such a easy target the amount of push back,that has been received from the tt while no one town reads him is staggering tbh. But really there is so much time left and so few people voting it coups,mean any number of things. Ew no wtf. I've already explained that bussing is a horrible fucking strategy for Day 1. Town cred is overrated - nobody gives a shit about who voted for who on Day 1 when it comes to a LYLO situation. I've literally never seen anyone be saved from a lynch because "lol they voted for scum on D1" Well I am town and I'm defending TT with logical reasoning because scum have no incentive to stick their neck out for a lurker mislynch, so get the fuck off with that 'logic'. Your last sentence just serves to undermine everything you just said. 0/10, did not like this post whatsoever. | ||
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On September 11 2016 02:41 NeverUnlucky wrote: You did. I'll show you post-game or after you flip. I have the same feeling. What does you "knowing you are town" have to do with any of this? I think it's a combination of 1 & 2 -- ie He is town, and scum are inactive, letting town fight each other. He is not the only alternative. I'm mixed. His behavior draws so much attention to him that the only way I can see him being scum is if he is WIFOMing the "too scum to be scum" agenda. I'm leaning town though because throughout all of his scum-reads, none of the reasons he gave appeared as shade-throwing/scum painting, and some of his reads are nuanced. I'm even more convinced that you rolled scum. A town wouldn't change subject immediately after saying he is town. You are trying to minimalize the emphasis on your answer by doing so. You are legitimately retarded. You are actually arguing that I would copy-paste a post from a scum game which I am aware that you read. And you are reading my frustration at your stupidity as scummy instead of what it is. Hint: It's NAI because you are pissing me off. It has nothing to do with my alignment, I'm just sick of dealing with you and don't wish to do it in future games. That much I can promise you. He claims that he is aggressive as all alignments. Dumb argument. I feel like he's all over the place with what he says. Like he says one thing and does another that doesn't quite add up for me. He hasn't contradicted himself badly enough that I am confident in this read but it makes me uneasy with him. He hasn't done anything that pings me as townie either. Not a scum tell, just means that I don't town-read him either. I also don't see how 'nuanced' is a town tell, nor do I care to know. | ||
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On September 11 2016 02:49 Damdred wrote: You aren't defending tt with any form of logic besides bad logic in totally neglecting options when they are perfectly viable. And done lots btw, so bussing d1 is in fact a successful strategy. But with only three people on the train you can't say that nobody is doing anything to stop it. It's just idiotic. How is my logic bad? You yourself agreed that TT could be town who the scum aren't trying to defend, lmao. Just because it's done a lot doesn't make it a good strategy. How does "it's done a lot" mean that it's "successful"? Lots of people think non-contribution = scum , doesn't mean that it's a successful scum tell. Your last line makes no sense. The day ends in three hours. He is the leading train regardless of the number of votes. | ||
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On September 11 2016 02:52 NeverUnlucky wrote: That Calix post felt townie. Calix, you're going to hate me even more than you do right now when you'll learn what my strategy coming into the game was (if you care to hear it). Could you just say it next time instead of forcing me to ask you for it? If not for me, for the people who have to wade through yet another TvT. Also if you have nothing else to say, can you focus on HF and Damdred's horrible responses instead? This conversation is stupid. | ||
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Maybe I'll be proven wrong and we end up CFD'ing within like, the last half an hour or so but right now? Nah. | ||
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On September 11 2016 03:07 Holyflare wrote: Calix you're either mafia or you don't know when you're wifoming. Mafia can do anything they want at any point in the game and you don't know our meta. If anyone was throwing suspicions away from tt for no valid reason it would be you. Tt has three votes, tt has not come back to post, people ARE defending tt etc etc. Stop talking around people's posts and what THEY have done and talking about wifom scenarios it's bad play regardless of your alignment. You should pick a person to mafia read and post why they are mafia for reasons rhey have done. I know I am town. Why would I say "oh yeah I am defending TT so he must be mafia being defended"? No, I don't know the meta. That doesn't make my point invalid. What are you even arguing here, that since nobody is defending him that he is still scum that the scum aren't trying to defend? Otherwise what is your point with WIFOM? No idea what you are even calling me out for here with 'talking around posts'. | ||
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On September 11 2016 03:13 Damdred wrote: Why would scum defend scum when that scum isn't trying? Why would scum not hop onto,the tt wagon and solidify it when he's a easy lynch and no,real reprocussions? Both questions are wifom but both have to be answered for your position calix If both questions are WIFOM then how am I supposed to answer them exactly...? We don't KNOW what the scum are thinking. I am just going to the simplest conclusion of "TT is town and the scum are allowing him to get MLed" My theory only assumes that TT is town and the scum are not trying to defend him. Any other theories assume he is scum and that scum are using WIFOM in their strategies. | ||
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On September 11 2016 03:18 Damdred wrote: Everything in mafia is wifom, me knowing all theories at this point is wifom doesn't negate the question. And no that's not the easiest answer,because three votes isn't a lynch by any means Your answers continue to be terrible. My theory is simpler and far more likely. You just sound like you're using WIFOM to justify a mislynch. He's the current lynch. Nobody is doing anything to prevent that. Your point of "he isn't lynched yet" doesn't negate my argument of "nobody is trying to not make TT the lynch" | ||
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On September 11 2016 03:22 Damdred wrote: You are again avoiding answering the initial questions and trying to call me terrible for the truth is laughable to say the least I answered your questions. Make better ones next time that don't require abstract answers. Your attempt at painting my response as evasive has been noted. | ||
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On September 11 2016 03:24 Holyflare wrote: If you are defending him and are town then it goes to say that your entire point about mafia should be defending him if he's mafia is irrelevant because town can also defend him. Wifom seems to be the entirety of your argument for not voting a scummy guy. Everyone should look at my logic and say if it's right and sheep it because tt is mafia or wrong and he's not and PROVE why. Also vivax why have you let damdred be there saying tt's mafia meta is to afk when you just saw him afk as town? Mafia are not going to stand by and let one of their own die on Day 1. Several people have said "oh I don't find the TT case convincing" so it's not like the case is so airtight that the scum will give up if TT is scum. So the utter lack of scum defending him or pushing for a different train doesn't make sense. | ||
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On September 11 2016 03:27 Damdred wrote: You did not answer either of my questions you just threw your previous theory in and discounted,Ted both by saying yours is the easiest. Which btw is avoiding my questions you can try to play word games all you want but refusing to see or talk about any other possibility than what you believe is bad and pig headed. That isn't avoiding your questions. I have answered by saying that they are WIFOM so answering the specific questions is fruitless. It does not make sense for scum to let one of their own die on Day 1 because that directly works against their win condition. The other argument so far is "scum are bussing" (for 'town cred' which is overrated and you hardly get any town cred from lynching a lurker) | ||
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On September 11 2016 03:30 Damdred wrote: Mafia stand by and let there own die all the time, Like I said why would scum defend scum when the scum in question isn't even doing anything? The answer is simple,they won't and will see what the thread does. [citation needed] Why would scum not try to divert the lynch onto another lurker if that was the case then? See, I can ask dumb abstract questions about what the scum might hypothetically do too! | ||
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On September 11 2016 03:33 NeverUnlucky wrote: Calix, what did you get from your filter of HF? And DDD is right, mafia let their teammates die all the time. Haven't finished reading it yet because the WIFOM discussion is distracting me. The fact that HF is pushing this dumb idea alongside Damdred is just making me want to vote for him though. Given that I am someone who has not voted for TT/ HF yet, it's possible that the two of them are trying to sway me into voting for TT via the power of convoluted scum tactics. I just don't see two townies trying to persuade me into voting for TT (why else would they be discussing this?) via abstract hypothetical scenarios. | ||
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Well I don't believe in informational lynches. (especially if the person flips town). If TT is town, that doesn't auto-confirm HF as scum because town!HF wouldn't have known that TT was town. | ||
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On September 11 2016 03:45 Holyflare wrote: How do you know those people aren't mafia???? I don't. What I was saying there is that there is enough doubt about TT's alignment that scum have room to make a more coordinated defense of TT/ attack of someone else. And I don't see why they wouldn't because bussing is a horrendous scum move. Although if I'm to trust TW, you guys actually bus on D1? wtf | ||
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It's a very simple argument to make about the stale TT wagon and lack of resistance. | ||
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On September 11 2016 03:55 NeverUnlucky wrote: We do too, Calix. You are not acknowledging it because we always ML D1. When we don't scum are always bussing. If you don't bus, you're a shit tier player and should feel bad. I've had like, 10 scum games and I've yet to bus any of my partners aside from that one time one of my buddies got copped. What do you make of the fact that Damdred said "I'm never getting lynched D1" and then disappeared after we said we would vote for him? I find that timing curious but not sure if it's AI or just coincidence. | ||
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On September 11 2016 04:04 Damdred wrote: Lol I walk away to do things and suddenly I dissapear? That's pretty hilarious tbh. The simple fact is your theory isn't as strong as you make it out to be and now you hope you can push through a lynch on me. That's equally comical. You're not very good at this, are you? If you stop posting after being voted, that looks like you disappeared. Bonus points for coming back in a grand four minutes after I talked about you. Busy indeed. | ||
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I'm more inclined to not vote for TT just to spite you if nothing else at this point. | ||
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On September 11 2016 04:10 Holyflare wrote: You have spent 99% of today arguing with nu your town read and confused as to why fuba is town and still calling him mafia and then wifoming for days. I literally just proved why your wifom is bull shit and nothing has changed for you. You should lynch me so I can fire a bullet in your direction. Yes, clearly it's my fault that NU has decided to tunnel me based on previous games and that I was defending myself against that. Nobody had said anything about how fuba was town until a few hours ago and the reasoning was mediocre. You like to keep repeating those points like they actually mean something. | ||
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If anyone town-reads Damdred or HF, then please speak up now. Everyone is just doing their own fucking thing at the moment. | ||
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On September 11 2016 04:22 Palmar wrote: sheeping is good I think HF is town based on a) sounding like a raging hammer of justice at some point and b) effort. Damdred is whatever. I always think he's mafia but he actually looks like mafia here. But then again, I always think he's mafia. I don't wanna lynch damdred mostly because I know he's good and can be useful at some point. I need him to impress me a bit more though. Effort is NAI. Your Damdred read is super waffley. "I always think that he's mafia but he actually looks like mafia but I always think that he's mafia" (this is basically what you said but my point is that you didn't actually SAY anything here) Useful...also not a town tell. You guys have some weird town tells, eh? | ||
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Hardly anyone else has managed to get anywhere near the number of sheep votes as TT has. | ||
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Superbia is saying that he's scum for not posting. WHICH ONE IS IT? MAKE UP YOUR MINDS PEOPLE. | ||
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IS THIS NOT A GIANT RED FLAG? Also I want Damdred, fuba and one of the lurkers dead. And maybe HF but I can't really tell with him. This is kind of a response to HF. | ||
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Also the fact that he commented on me calling him out the first time shows that he's checking the thread at least but doesn't care to comment on it even though we have 1 hour until EOD. And the only arguments for him are "he can put in effort and he's a good player". Correct me if I missed some amazing defense of his posts so far but I doubt I have. | ||
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But 648 and 658 has him basically say "oh I have this town read, who wants to guess at what it is" and when NU gives an answer he says "lol no" but...doesn't actually say why he town-reads fuba for that post. Not a scum tell but baiting people with a read that you have when you're not doing it to get info is strange and not sure why he did that. 827 was also terrible because he was saying "there is no logical reason for town to defend TT" (which implies that anyone who does defend him is scum and reads like he was trying to deter me from doing so) especially the last line where he was like "well this particular thing could mean anything" The rest of his filter is the WIFOM discussion and some 'townie bravado' posts. | ||
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My point stands. | ||
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On September 11 2016 05:13 Grackaroni wrote: But that's really my whole point. If someone is trying to dress up an inactive as a scum-read lynch then they are pretty likely scum. Does it? I usually read it as "scum trying to look like they're scum-hunting by choosing a target that won't defend themselves" personally. | ||
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(I know you are voting HF, I am just talking generally) | ||
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On September 11 2016 05:21 Palmar wrote: If I'm mafia with TT here, I sheep hf's wagon just like I'm doing now, hell I even come up with semi-independent reasons like I'm doing now. The entire point is that IF hf is town, no mafia team is going to risk defending TT here. This means that a) TT could very well be mafia and b) the people defending him if he is, do not have to be mafia (in fact I'd argue that people actually trying to pull away from the lynch are more likely to be town). "If I'm mafia" - Stopped reading because self-meta on your scum game is useless when you are obviously aware of it and can change how you act accordingly. And since I'm the person who is hardcore defending TT, that parenthesis part could be a subtle pocketing attempt from you. I don't think I can do anything about TT's train. Nobody seems to find anything I say worth listening to. | ||
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Not too sure on Super. I'm biased because I felt like he entered the thread in a way that scum wouldn't do. | ||
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On September 11 2016 05:32 Holyflare wrote: I would most likely shoot Calix over tt. This is almost as retarded as lynching TT in the first place. | ||
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On September 11 2016 05:46 Superbia wrote: I'm literally not putting any actual pressure on you. Like I have given 0 reasons. We also don't know what TT is going to flip whatsoever. Why so scared? I already said that it looks like you're lining up lynches because it reads like you know what he will flip. Why else would you keep saying "if this happens, do X"? HF is also saying the same thing. "If TT is town, lynch Calix" When he was saying that I was scum with TT earlier. So no matter what, I am scum to HF. Heads he wins. Tails I lose. | ||
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On September 11 2016 05:50 Holyflare wrote: I guess that just makes you mafia then. Spamming the thread doesn't make what you say true. | ||
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Priorities and shit. You should try voting for HF sometime. | ||
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"Calix defended an obviously shitty lynch, scum!" Not being a retard and not sheeping onto a train isn't a scum tell, sorry to break it to everyone. | ||
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No they aren't. Thinking that a bad wagon is a town wagon because of a lack of resistance + scummy voters is using the thread to draw a conclusion. That's not a WIFOM situation. | ||
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Except I'm not using my 'correctness' to do anything. | ||
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Tictock had 3 votes with 3 hours to go before EOD. At the time, he was clearly going to be lynched without objection. And no, people voting for someone else that isn't TT =/= diverting the lynch. Nobody was trying to push an alternative train. Saying that your train was being pushed is extremely generous and nobody else was a viable option. Therefore that is a shitty train that is likely a mislynch. | ||
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On September 11 2016 06:16 Superbia wrote: Calix I recall you making a big logical post that made sense and was townie. I recall you engaging people directly. I don't recall you actually reading anyone scum and pursuing that. So: - You seemed townie. - You did not have anyone you actually believed was mafia. - You defended a town-wagon. "seems townie" - lol wtf, I AM town. How is that a reason to scum-read someone? What are you even talking about? I've scum-read Grack, TT, TW, fuba and Damdred throughout the game. Saying I "haven't believed anyone is mafia" is blatantly incorrect. | ||
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Damdred and fuba for two. Your push on me reeks of opportunism and your reasons for scum-reading me are literal shit. I also dislike HF's push. However I doubt that both of you are scum because you two are too obviously linked by agreeing on this dumb push of me. | ||
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On September 11 2016 06:22 Superbia wrote: Like you mention 5 names, which of those did you want to lynch at EoD? You definitely didn't want to lynch TT but I don't think you actually wanted to lynch someone? Am I correct in this? What the fuck would you call my vote and posts on Damdred then? Nice leading questions, but no dice. | ||
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Continue to mischaracterise the situation, why don't you? | ||
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On September 11 2016 06:26 Damdred wrote: Honestly your vote and push on me is a soft push really I'll be upgrading it for tomorrow, pal, since it looks like the scum are trying to mislynch me next because I called them out on their bullshit mislynch. It's incredibly obvious. | ||
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On September 11 2016 06:28 Superbia wrote: Did you actually try to convince people to go on damdred? I recall you actually being pretty quiet during the final (and most important) hour. Yes, idiot. And the overall response was "Damdred can be useful if he's town" and "TT is a better option, let's sheep his train" You said yourself that "TT would have posted if he was town" - how do I argue with such stellar reasoning exactly? | ||
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On September 11 2016 06:29 NeverUnlucky wrote: Calix, you've got to interact with me if you want us to be efficient. I town-read you. Now more than ever is the time you have to collaborate with me. I forget if I already posted this but your post where you said HF is less scummy for openly pushing for the ML was decent. Like I said, I don't think HF/ Superbia is a scum duo so that's a point in HF's favour. Also I don't think that one of them flipping town means that the other is automatically scum. T/T is still possible although I am extremely skeptical. | ||
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You haven't answered how I would have countered that kind of point. Your reasoning for joining the TT train is extremely weak and you have nothing to say about that when you were proven wrong, eh? | ||
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On September 11 2016 06:36 Superbia wrote: TT is a good town who literally stopped posting when someone put pressure on him. Like I am expecting him, as town, to come in and defend himself or at least do fucking something. lol so the possibility of him being legitimately AFK never occurred to you? Calling bullshit. | ||
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I didn't say that I knew he was town for certain. The only thing I knew was that his train sucked and this is undeniable. A train that isn't being contested with a bunch of sheep voters = shitty. You are only focusing on me being scum when I wasn't the only person defending TT's shitty train. Yet I am the only person that is scummy for defending TT. Selective scum-hunting, now that's actually sketchy. I read him as probable town due to external factors, in this case votes. You don't always need to use his posts (which sucked but there was nothing that came from a 100% scum mindset) to figure that out. Not a scum tell, sorry not sorry. | ||
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But seriously, fuck 'gut reads' to high hell. And if you think I'm relenting on my read of you because you might 'reconsider' your shitty 'scum-read' then you can suck it. | ||
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I'm not using TT's mislynch to push a scum-read on anyone. I'm not saying "I told you so". I'm not saying I am town for defending TT. I am not saying I am town for making this post "cuz WIFOM lul" But fuck WIFOM for a second...what exactly would scum!Calix get out of this if not those things? | ||
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On September 11 2016 06:59 Superbia wrote: No, no. What are you getting out of this as town, exactly? Showing that the scum-read on me for defending TT is shitty, duh. I'm asking for what intent I would have, as scum, to defend TT. Also if it wasn't obvious, I hate 'WIFOM' as a response. That's almost-always been a cop-out way of saying "I have no retort but I won't say as much" like seriously. | ||
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I wouldn't say that being aggressive is a town tell for me. I am naturally an irritable person who loses my temper easily. Also I'm not aimless as scum because when I'm scum, I have a goal. (to mislynch X townies from a list of townies) However I'm aware of my meta so take with a pinch of salt. | ||
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And those reads have little to do with the fact that you guys were on the mislynch. So no. | ||
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On September 11 2016 07:18 NeverUnlucky wrote: Eh, I can see a world where Calix flips scum too. She had enough scumtells during the first 24h of D1 for me to think this way. Overall I think that her tone, actions, and black sheeping overshadow the scum vibes she gave me at the start. Your 'scum tells' and 'meta reads' are going to evaporate so hard when I flip. | ||
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Since nothing else is really happening, want to discuss the TT train? Namely the sheep voters. Off the top of my head, Shapelog's vote is among the least-worst because he voted right at the very end which I find odd for scum to do. (it associates them with a ML with little benefit outside of "muh WIFOM") I forget how he justified it N1 though. Also I recall Skynx making a comment that revealed he was voting for a PL, not a scum-read, so I like the honesty there. | ||
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I personally think Skynx is town even if his thought process was a little muddled at EOD. And I feel like his more questionable actions make sense from "bad town" perspective than "scum" (not saying that Skynx is a shit player, I'm saying that his actions aren't optimal for town but don't make a lot of sense for scum to do. For example, he votes for a guaranteed lynch that he admitted was shitty...something which would 100% get him suspected when TT flipped) Shapelog made some good points on town!Skynx which I agree with, basically. It catches me funny that Shapelog spent a lot of time defending Skynx. However he did say that he preferred having a conversation to 'help catch up' or something like that so probably not AI but I'll note it for future reference. | ||
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On September 11 2016 07:57 Damdred wrote: Nu why is it again that sky can town hunt and you say he's scum hunting, but when I'm largely town hunting and trying to build what I think is the right group I am not? And no I disagree with your conclusions over all on sky him voting tt especially when there was a movement away from tt (to a poont) is just scummy. In fact he complains about people ignoring the other lurkers and never really brings much of anything worth talking about up just says the filter he checked wasn't that bad. Then he bites someone who he really shouldn't given his filter. So no it's scum This isn't part of the reason I am town-reading Skynx, but I don't like Damdred's push on Skynx either. A. His first line (where he asks why Skynx town-clearing is townie but him doing that is scummy) would be fine taken by itself because he's pointing out a possible inconsistency. However, it fits in with his overall pattern of only commenting on things that relate to him. It doesn't look like he actually cares about pushing a scum-read (Skynx) because his focus is on NU treating him differently to Skynx. It is another example of Damdred only focusing on himself. B. His points make no sense for him to use to scum-read Skynx when he himself admits that he was doing the same thing. According to his logic, that makes him scummy. If a townie was aware that they were doing questionable things, they would have rationalisations for why said things are helpful to the town. Therefore, that townie would be more inclined to town-read players who are acting similarly to them, because they can relate to that behaviour and have an explanation fresh in their minds for why said player is acting like that. So let's say that town!Damdred didn't push on anyone at EOD because he was busy. He sees Skynx not pushing on anyone. He would be more likely to assume that Skynx wasn't pushing anyone because of time constraints too. (bad example but I'm not saying this is what happened. I'm just trying to explain my thought process) So given this, why wouldn't Damdred assume that Skynx also has similar reasoning for acting like he was instead of jumping to the explanation that makes Skynx scum? C. This is another example of Damdred focusing on the easy targets in the thread: - His town-reads match up with popular opinion. - Sheep-voted on the shitty TT train, complete with horrible WIFOM conspiracy theories about scum bussing which cannot be backed up by anything in the thread. (focus on abstract theories > logical arguments) - He never discussed other lynch targets in any of his EOD posts. Why? Because the shitty TT train was already locked in at that point so why would he need to? Even Skynx, Palmar, etc were discussing other candidates. Regardless of how shitty said discussion was, it's better than just settling for a TT vote with NO comment. - After TT flipped, he threw shade on Grack and myself because "their defense of TT was weird" (which isn't the same as scum-motivated, just black sheep) and now focuses on Skynx after NU drew attention to this potential inconsistency. I have yet to see Damdred actually push a 'scum-read' BEFORE someone else did. Classic scum tactic of evading responsibility. - Let's not forget the "don't blame the TT voters, blame the people off the train" post. This was said AFTER HF and Superbia had made it clear that they were going to attack people off the TT train regardless of how TT flipped. Thus, this is a safe position for Damdred to take because he knows he'll have support in the thread already. - I am aware that he suddenly flipped and defended me against Super because he was 'playing devil's advocate'. I have no idea what the fuck he was doing there but it didn't give me good vibes. If he did that after getting pushback against a Calix train then I'm even more inclined to think he's scum because it felt like an awkward and insincere backtrack. | ||
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Damdred too, but I've just cased him. I feel like I'm being too reactive in my reads on HF/ Superbia and I'm inclined to keep a close eye on TW/ Palmar in case the scum are trying to pocket me. This makes perfect sense because I've been under some suspicion since Vivax dissected my opening posts so the scum have probably decided on how they are going to treat me by now. HF just reminds me of myself because I used to stupidly tunnel like he did so I can relate. (not AI, just means I can see where he's coming from as both alignments) Currently I don't think he's on a scum team with Damdred just because Damdred seems to be using HF to hide behind compared to actually collaborating with him. It's not impossible but I feel like "HF is tunnel-town who scum are using" makes more sense atm. Also @HF, if you think TW was TMI'ing in his Calix post, you should try reading it from the perspective where you know I am town and see if that theory holds true. Novel concept, I know. | ||
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Secondly, I meant "read the post and give examples of where you think TW TMI'd that I was town" because it sounded like that was just your initial impression and I was trying to get you to elaborate on that. | ||
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On September 11 2016 21:04 Holyflare wrote: Because you're scummy to me and I'm a great player and you do look like you pick the correct wifom every time despite everything we say and lots of good players agree and i don't rate tw as an amazing top tier player yet he made an entire weak case on you being town and keeps yelling about it and it's pretty much the only substantial thing that he's done other than arguing how tt wasn't mafia (again tmi) despite tt doing mafia looking things and afking. He basically shut down my posts by saying "no that's not what he's thinking" DESPITE tt actually saying that is what he was thinking meaning tw was defending tt WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT HE SAID THIS GAME. Tw's plan this game is defend people that don't need defending for no reason and push me. Abd he's fucked up calling me town and he called tt town in a slip too although slips basically mean nothing but they're there. Basically i lynch people that make cases that can't possibly be made with the information normal people have. I used VCA, not WIFOM. My read on TT is all based on what was going on in the thread. If I had defended multiple town MLs then you'd have a point but I haven't. The concept of looking at votes in a game where there are no living TPRs should not be a novelty, lmao. "lots of good players agree" - Invalid argument. Consensus is not always correct, otherwise you'd never ML in majority-vote games. Also we must have different definitions of what a 'good player' is because I just see a bunch of lazy arseholes who people mindlessly defend because 'they CAN be useful' I am always skeptical of slips because I see a lot of townies 'slip' and get CFD'd. I've only seen like, three legit scum slips in the games I've played. I am going to look at TW now, one mo. I'm not opposed to a two-train approach here; I think that'll be a good direction to start off Day 2. | ||
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Yes, I am still reading TW's filter and getting quotes. Yes, I am defending myself because your point hasn't gotten any better just because you posted it for the 494707th time and shitty cases annoy me no matter what. Yes, I can relate to insulting people. | ||
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On September 11 2016 21:31 Holyflare wrote: My shitty case is that you're town? Ok RTFT. I am talking about the "Calix ignored the shitty WIFOM about scum!TT" case. Stop being dumb pls. You might actually be onto something here. | ||
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TW could be on a team with Damdred given these string of posts though. On September 11 2016 05:01 Tumblewood wrote: I don't really care as much about mafia Damdred as I do about mafia Palmar or Hf. he's good, but he doesn't push mislynches and it's not a personal point of pride to lynch him, if that makes sense. So his town-read of Damdred is because he "vaguely LOOKS town" (but what has he actually done that helps town? Nothing) and an obnoxious "he's a good player" defense which doesn't seem to be AI because people on this site actually seem to think experience is a good reason to not lynch someone, but it doesn't look promising as a 'town read' The last post, however, is so fucking bad. It's not saying why Damdred is town. It's saying why lynching scum!Damdred doesn't do anything. WTF. Like seriously, just look at that last line and tell me why a town would care about how good a hypothetical scum player is when the leading train was on someone he didn't scum-read. | ||
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On September 11 2016 19:04 Calix wrote: This isn't part of the reason I am town-reading Skynx, but I don't like Damdred's push on Skynx either. A. His first line (where he asks why Skynx town-clearing is townie but him doing that is scummy) would be fine taken by itself because he's pointing out a possible inconsistency. However, it fits in with his overall pattern of only commenting on things that relate to him. It doesn't look like he actually cares about pushing a scum-read (Skynx) because his focus is on NU treating him differently to Skynx. It is another example of Damdred only focusing on himself. B. His points make no sense for him to use to scum-read Skynx when he himself admits that he was doing the same thing. According to his logic, that makes him scummy. If a townie was aware that they were doing questionable things, they would have rationalisations for why said things are helpful to the town. Therefore, that townie would be more inclined to town-read players who are acting similarly to them, because they can relate to that behaviour and have an explanation fresh in their minds for why said player is acting like that. So let's say that town!Damdred didn't push on anyone at EOD because he was busy. He sees Skynx not pushing on anyone. He would be more likely to assume that Skynx wasn't pushing anyone because of time constraints too. (bad example but I'm not saying this is what happened. I'm just trying to explain my thought process) So given this, why wouldn't Damdred assume that Skynx also has similar reasoning for acting like he was instead of jumping to the explanation that makes Skynx scum? C. This is another example of Damdred focusing on the easy targets in the thread: - His town-reads match up with popular opinion. - Sheep-voted on the shitty TT train, complete with horrible WIFOM conspiracy theories about scum bussing which cannot be backed up by anything in the thread. (focus on abstract theories > logical arguments) - He never discussed other lynch targets in any of his EOD posts. Why? Because the shitty TT train was already locked in at that point so why would he need to? Even Skynx, Palmar, etc were discussing other candidates. Regardless of how shitty said discussion was, it's better than just settling for a TT vote with NO comment. - After TT flipped, he threw shade on Grack and myself because "their defense of TT was weird" (which isn't the same as scum-motivated, just black sheep) and now focuses on Skynx after NU drew attention to this potential inconsistency. I have yet to see Damdred actually push a 'scum-read' BEFORE someone else did. Classic scum tactic of evading responsibility. - Let's not forget the "don't blame the TT voters, blame the people off the train" post. This was said AFTER HF and Superbia had made it clear that they were going to attack people off the TT train regardless of how TT flipped. Thus, this is a safe position for Damdred to take because he knows he'll have support in the thread already. - I am aware that he suddenly flipped and defended me against Super because he was 'playing devil's advocate'. I have no idea what the fuck he was doing there but it didn't give me good vibes. If he did that after getting pushback against a Calix train then I'm even more inclined to think he's scum because it felt like an awkward and insincere backtrack. Fuck's sake N00b tl;dr - Self-centred and almost-exclusively talks about himself and responds to posts that mention him. - Always hides behind other players' ideas. (e.g., he waited for NU to talk about Skynx before saying Skynx was scummy; waited for HF/ Superbia to say "if TT is town, lynch Calix" before agreeing) - He takes safe/ popular positions in the thread, says nothing controversial whatsoever. - Had no interest in doing anything useful at EOD except for responding when called out, was content with the TT train and did not even bother discussing other options. | ||
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On September 11 2016 22:15 Holyflare wrote: Could be damd/tw Yes. I think the best plan right now is for you to push the TW train and NU and I can push Damdred. I see no flaws with this. | ||
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On September 11 2016 22:28 NeverUnlucky wrote: You see no flaws with this, eh? What even makes you say that TW/Damdread are a scum team? What happened to the "pre-flip associations zzz" Calix? I can agree with pushing Damdred. Right now I have a hangover, so you should push him for the time being, and I will take over when I don't feel dizzy. Try reading when you are not hungover, ya lightweight, and get back to me on that. | ||
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On September 11 2016 22:27 Damdred wrote: Nothing that's posted makes me scum and honestly calix is creating a narrative that just fits what they want to see. Sk might be scum I'm not sure the inconsitincies are more scum leaning but not,sure. Anyway I'll probably be around some,then be here later on Monday. Also I expected more from you hf. "Nothing here makes me 100% scum and I haven't scum-slipped yet so I will not counter anything she said." I agree with Skynx, that read on him is wishy-washy as fuck. "not sure not sure" | ||
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On September 11 2016 22:42 Damdred wrote: 1) One is hypocritical as you yourself mainly protected yourself and have overall reacted poorly pressure, also it is natural to foremost take on accusations against yourself as only you (or a cop) knows your alignment. This is nai to the extreme doesn't make anyone scum. 2) When night began I attacked the notion that calix was scum with super via across several posts as I thought that you had nothing to gain from doing what you did. Nu asked for opinions and mine directly countered thread sentiment. So this is a blatant lie and the examples are just wrong. 3) See two obviously can't be true, and I was the starter of some early opinions. 4) I wanted tt lynched not other people, I got the person who I wanted lynched. Not scum indicative and this harkens back,to 1. Nai As for wishy washy, yep I am sometimes I don't have perfect information so,I second guess myself whenever I can. 1. Er no, I have done considerably more than 'just defend myself'. I am not arguing that talking about/ defending yourself is scummy. I am arguing that ONLY talking about yourself is scummy. Why would any town care to talk about themselves as much as you have when they should be focused on figuring out everyone else's alignment? 2. Explain why you felt the need to say "Calix defending TT is weird" then if you didn't think it was scummy. You were low-key agreeing with the idea that I was sketchy for defending TT's train. If you didn't think that made me suspicious, why did you do it again? 3. [citation fucking needed] But let's assume you didn't make that shit up. Fire-starting is not a town tell. If anything, that's what scum do. They get other people to talk about and push their own ideas. 4. That doesn't mean you just stop talking about the other trains, wtf. You're telling me that you had no opinions you wanted to share about the EOD events? Not buying it. You got complacent with the ML and stopped posting anything constructive. | ||
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On September 11 2016 22:54 Damdred wrote: Shape doesn't know what to make of your inconsistencies, sees no reason that you should do what you did as scum. You dropped your opinion while you were busy rehashing Shape's views, my dude. | ||
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Otherwise stop distracting everyone with your annoying "summary pls" posts. | ||
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On September 11 2016 23:02 Palmar wrote: Also I'm downgrading Calix to meh based on paranoia but not really interested in lynching yet. Please tell us more about your self-aware paranoiak read, sir. | ||
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On September 11 2016 23:05 Damdred wrote: 1) I am figuring out people's alignments, you just do not like how I am doing it. I have several posts where I am standing at points. And being self centered when .people are talking about lynching you isn't scum indicative. 2. Cause I thought you and grac might be scum. Then I almost instantly swap on grac in my next post. You forgot that one. I thought of town reasons it could be done. 3. You are basically saying here you didn't read my filter before you made your case. And once again you are forcing everything into a narrative on a conclusion you have already made. Which btw if you took the same tact you are handling,me,the same way nu scum read me and now you are using,it to throw shade under the cover. I don't think,that's the case but it's humorous. 4) I can do what hi want around lynch, I was relatively sure on tt. Can only lynch one person at a time anyway. This isn't alignment indicative in that case. 1. You keep saying random crap that doesn't line up with your filter but you never actually give examples, lol. Cite examples or your answers are empty air. Oh I thought the Almighty Damdred couldn't get lynched on Day 1. I didn't realise that people wanted you lynched for most of the day, dearie. 2. Whoa whoa whoa, this is the first time you've actually said that you've scum-read me at any point. Call the fucking presses. 3. Not only did you not answer my questions, you make a feeble attempt to flip it back on me and accusing me of tunneling you and saying "you could be scum for this but nah but it's funny lol" Do you always respond to scum-reads with "lol so funny xDDDDD"? Just curious. 4. Yes you can do what you want. I can do what I want when it comes to scum-reading you for complacency. | ||
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Everyone else is doing stuff, so yes. You are randomly talking about Grack and LWs and not being that engaged with the current discussion. What gives? | ||
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On September 11 2016 23:18 Palmar wrote: I don't know what the current discussion is, so I'm talking about things I like to talk about. You are claiming to have missed the Skynx-Shapelog-Damdred-HF-TW posting that took place over the past few hours. Legit. | ||
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On September 11 2016 23:20 Palmar wrote: can you summarize or do I have to go back and read? Go masturbate over your uselessness in the corner with NU pls. If everyone else has gone, I'm just going to check the thread from time to time. | ||
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On September 11 2016 23:26 Damdred wrote: I say what I want when I want to, idk why that's so hard to understand. And I don't get lynched d1, I never have nor will ever. So I'm glad you recognize my station as almighty just remember your place peon next time ty. And as that which you aspire to be. Here is a sincere observation (no sarcasm), You are a good player I think, a bit rough around the edges (same can be said of nu). But you have the tendency to tunnel over things that don't make people scum and you are reading everything through a predetermined position rather than trying,to see all sides. It really doesn't matter atm just an observation because generally you are enjoyable to read. Ad as foe the other things I do understand that hi come off confusing at times with how I post, but I just post whatever jumps in,my,mind when I want to. Any case keep on keeping on. I feel like this post speaks for itself given it doesn't follow on from my response. Second paragraph is just some pseudo-bragging about not getting lynched Day 1. Third paragraph is an out-of-the-blue observation about my playstyle which is flattering in nature. I don't know why he felt like that was necessary as it has nothing to do with anything. Pitiful appeasement attempt if it was one. Fourth paragraph inaccurately assumes that I was confused by anything he had posted. | ||
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All I can see in your filter are posts that I read as "not scummy" and posts that are. I don't see any posts from you that are strongly townie. It's not low IQ to conclude that the scum explanation for your posts outweighs the pitiful town explanation and then follow up on this. | ||
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On September 12 2016 00:02 NeverUnlucky wrote: He is not helping the town, right, but NAI. I actually liked his responses to your posts lately and am revising my read on him. If he becomes a town-read then I'm completely barking up the wrong trees as it means I have no other scum-reads. Vivax's posts in the second half of D1 really dropped in quality. I suspect him of laying back because he was town-read. He is no longer a strong read for me. You actually town-read his responses? He didn't respond to half of my points and brushed off my push as tunneling. I feel like you are focusing on the wrong things here. | ||
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On September 12 2016 00:12 NeverUnlucky wrote: Town-read, no. I didn't scum-read them either. And lol @"he didn't respond to half of my points". When I was pushing you, you did not answer to all of my points either. That's not always AI. TW answered none of the 10+ questions I've asked him too. What are the right things I should be focusing on then? That's not how it works. Damdred's scummy actions don't become less scummy just because he acted like non-scum elsewhere. What do you make of TW and fuba's latest post? When I said "the wrong things" I was complaining about you town-reading Vivax less because "his posts at EOD dropped in quality" even though this argument applies to most of the players in the game. It's a dumb reason to trust someone less is my point. | ||
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On September 12 2016 00:32 NeverUnlucky wrote: Need I remind you that your actions were scummy af too? Does it make you scum? I don't think so. Why would it make DDD scum then? Don't remember TW's last post, and I did not read fuba's last post with a critical viewpoint. I liked the post, agreed with the points he made but did not dig into it in other words. ~(o.o)~ To take a page from you for a moment, false equivalence. My actions are not scummy and my behaviour does not benefit the scum. You're just a scrub who thinks pronouns are a 'scum tell' rofl I meant TW in general, not just his last post. Poor wording on my part. O_O | ||
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Because you say "his case is shit and he's pushing it way too hard" but when you get to the point where you say why it comes from scum!HF, you only use meta references which are terrible. Do you have any reasoning for why it can't be town!HF tunneling? Also I laugh at the line "TUMBLEWOOD IS THE ONLY PERSON BEING REASONABLE" in literally any context this game. I appreciate you listing all of TW's terrible scum-reads though. | ||
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On September 12 2016 05:41 NeverUnlucky wrote: Welcome back. I'm back to scum-reading you. Yeah, saying TW is reasonable is like saying Mother Teresa was a child molester. Cool story. Pretty sure Grack was taking the piss out of you with regards to pronouns, rofl. | ||
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On September 12 2016 05:47 Grackaroni wrote: No those are my reasons I can't explain them any better than I have. I fully believe that HF was trying to make TT seem scummier than he was. I don't even think it would have been a bad lynch if HF had just made a light push, asked some questions and then we end up shennanying on him at the end of the day. Which is what he was doing with Lunatic in the last game that he brought up to try to refute my argument. Just wondering because when you were making other cases for why someone was town/ scum earlier on, the reasoning felt stronger than it did here and when I read your meta analysis in this case, I didn't get the same feeling. The premise of "scum!HF was trying to paint TT as scummy" is not bad (as in, it is possible and makes sense if you read HF as mafia) but I'm not finding the evidence for this idea compelling enough to believe it is the case atm. | ||
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You can thank Skynx for the medic save, by the way. | ||
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On September 21 2016 07:56 Holyflare wrote: My lynch was still objectively terrible and you should all feel bad. Also I've read all the QTs now. Calix you played very well, probably got a bit too taken up with arguing with your town reads that were critical of you but I can't blame you because I do the exact same thing. NU you played well, were a good voice of reason at most times but probably need to cut back on the scum slips and wifom. Uh other people you need to stop signing up to games if you're willing to put 0 effort in. There was no real analysis of any post after day 2 save from me??? You all afkd and came back to do random shit tone reads and afk again. If you're not willing to commit to a full game then join obs qt because you sure did play like one. But despite crappy afk you somehow managed to look towny day 1 to 2 so not too bad after all. Yeah, my default reaction to being scum-read is to OMGUS...because obviously I am so townie that anyone scum-reading me must be doing it to discredit me or something. It's a bad habit of mine. I think my TPR play was pretty crappy, actually. I wasn't around for most of Day 2/ Night 2 and I wouldn't have had a clue who the mafia would attack and I spent two days voting for Damdred. Although I think picking you on Night 2 was a good choice since you were the most proactive player. I read the scum QT, not entirely sure why I was killed unless it was a standard "kill the towniest players" NK. (which would make sense) | ||
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