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Time to check some what DYH and Xata had to say about eachother in 40 pages, I'm sure we're in for a treat.
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On September 28 2016 01:40 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2016 01:31 Skynx wrote:On September 28 2016 01:06 Xatalos wrote:Ok, first there's this post: On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. You could look at it as a Lunatic push, but it's really not. It's just a random comment with no follow-up or relevance whatsoever. Could be distancing, could be a genuine throwaway comment, nothing conclusive either way. It was just a forgotten line in a forgotten post. But after that he basically ignores everything Lunatic-related, only making these comments that can't be exactly called as anti-Lunatic: On September 25 2016 04:37 Skynx wrote:
What makes you so soure Stutters pr Lunatic? On September 26 2016 02:33 Skynx wrote:On September 26 2016 02:21 Xatalos wrote:
Well, actually there's also a third scenario, where he's town and simply messed up by making a blue read, including it in his read list for some reason (without specifically saying that he thought he was a blue) and then saying it out loud in the heat of the moment. I guess that's a bit more likely than the scenario #2 after all since he's a newbie... But scenario #1 seems the most credible one, I guess. Hm. Any opinions? Man I somehow feel like Luna is just misinformed town trying to cover up mistake of being lazy and saying he's blue. AND then there's the worst part: On September 26 2016 03:38 Skynx wrote:Fuck me actually i dont think I'll have any time at all  I'm an ok lynch if u guys feel like it sry i thought i'd have more time to play but im kinda moving houses and uni begins tomorrow. If not tho my top sr is DYH. His chain of questions few pages back really don't accomplish anything at all. It really looks like he's farming town points while doinh nothing. On September 25 2016 10:16 DoYouHas wrote:On September 25 2016 10:15 Jealous wrote:On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote:I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it: On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts: On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
[quote]
Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
[quote]
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:
[quote]
Why woudln't I do such a thing ?
So apparently you think I'm scum ? No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet. There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer. The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle. Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels. Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded. It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum? On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote:
So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently? I mean these supposed to make it look like he's pressuring Jealous for explanations but he sort of responds and nothing from DYH regarding his stance on Luna. Then he switches to SEQ, stating bunch of thoughts which actually doesn't say anything. On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote:
I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ. I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond. Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also. SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it. Like there is not a final verdict, he says he doesnt bother him then bunch of thoughts filling the air and thats it. On September 25 2016 11:35 DoYouHas wrote:On September 25 2016 11:29 Stutters695 wrote:On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote:
I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ. I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond. Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also. SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it. All of his statements are from around that time. Not to mention the apologetic/cautious nature. Just kind of screams first time scum to me. I want to see what you are seeing. I think you are likely town. Can you walk me through it like I'm an idiot? Where is his apologetic/cautious nature evident? This is kinda more evident of all tho, when he pushes Jealous for avoiding answering questions and he himself disappeara after this kind of questioning. Yeh my top lynch target i guess, all of this above feels like activity for sake of activity to me. Thats best i can do from phone guys, sory for being afk so far this game Hopefully i can pick it up later on. This post is basically saying just "lynch me or DYH". Nothing about Lunatic at this point. It would make a lot of sense if Skynx was just a Mafia Goon or something and it would suck to lose the Roleblocker, so it would be even better to kill himself than Lunatic? Naturally he votes for DYH though. I guess this means DYH and Skynx probably aren't scum together though. But nothing really makes Skynx town and a lot of things fit with him being Lunatic's partner. 1) Mostly ignoring Lunatic-related events in the thread. 2) No real stance on him except slight reluctance to lynch him. 3) Ultimately preferring to even lynch himself over Lunatic....? Moving on.... My dear Xatalos, 1) You are accusing me of ignoring Lunatic-related events when you're the one trying to shut down blue discussion the moment it started. 2) The WORST PART: You are implying me focussing some one else than scum makes me scum, however half the game is now scumreading DYH. Even Rels of all people who initially tought it was bs. Do you think DYH is town in this case? Do you think my reads on DYH is bullshit? If you not, how does having a logical case on someone else when another mafia dies makes me scum? 3) Mafia 100000% busses here, i don't even have to explain this. Lunatic was unsaveable, he slipped. 4) That post is not saying "lynch me or DYH". I was offski most of D1 so town would be rightfull to lynch me so it was me showing some activity in the short amount of time I had. I made my stance about Luna earlier as u quoted, no need to repeat in every post something Luna related because he flipped scum. 5) Your entire strategy suggesting me sacrificing myself for Luna I have no idea how someone can see that here. So I was afk on purpose to save my scumbuddy on EoD by suggesting myself as a policy lynch??? 6) So the whole thing is mostly associative that now Super is dead and Luna is scum and I'm the only off-wagon. Nice try. Verdict: Scum This is not a push town would make. He's basically invalid and wrong about every point made and reaching conclusions that are totally irrelevant to what he quotes as a reasoning. Big up tho, you made my life easier cuz now i don't have to check your filter to conclude you're highly likely scum. OMGUS mucho  How do my own doings relate to what you did? If I did something "bad", it doesn't atone for you. DYH isn't confirmed scum. If he were, then you would look somewhat better of course, but that's not the case, and can't be the basis of my read on you. Like I said, bussing at that point wouldn't have done you any good. In fact, it could have backfired, like could have happened with DYH/scott if one of them is scum. Well, have fun pushing me if you're scum. If you're town, I'd suggest something more productive.
So you just flat out ignored all the pointers I made which kinda underlined how your push was horribad. They were all also supposed to explain how none of what you said associated scum me with Luna flipping scum.
Now DYH is getting lynched, you can't bus him aswell can you?
This might end up being a very short game.
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On September 24 2016 09:43 DoYouHas wrote:
Nevermind, I can just look it up myself.
Calix and Xata read pretty townie to me.
Don't know about you other 3 yet.
First tr, few hours into game. I mean surely there is shit ton of explanation how Xata is different to 'other 3' here.
On September 24 2016 11:26 DoYouHas wrote:
I think I like you as well Stutters. Good on ya.
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I'll try to get into something beyond these gut reads tomorrow, hopefully when a few more people have posted. As is I'm pretty happy with tonight. 3/5 for my town pile and 2 I need to think about and watch. Gnight.
Few hours later, townread solidified by putting into townpile, again not much behind it.
On September 26 2016 10:32 DoYouHas wrote:
Ok, here is where I'm at for the night
Mafia
Jealous
Town
Rels
SEQ
Calix
Stutters
Skynx
Probably Town
Xata
Looking better post-flip
Dane
Unsure
Scott
Superbia
ptmc
Dane(again)
48 hours later, sudden drop and separation from clear townreads with no mentioning of Xata at all in posts taking place in that 48 hours.
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I guess we only have to decide which one goes first. In meantime i'll read some others for fun brb.
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Yeah I like ptmc post flip. I townread him on tone earlier even I dunno why i put him neutral on my list lol
His page 2 is like 90% game progressing stuff, posts reads, pueshes people to post reads, reaches reasonable conclusions man its actually a beauty.
On September 27 2016 17:02 ptmc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 09:22 DoYouHas wrote:
Response to Rels:
#1. I actually had 3 people I thought were likely scum D1. I also gave 4 town reads. I can't really respond to you saying everyone one of my reads is scummy since I don't know what that means.
I currently have no scum reads. I think I was wrong on Jealous and I'm not going to just jump to another person until I reassess the game. This just is what it is. I don't think it is scummy to realize a flaw in your own case, in fact I think it shows that I wasn't just trying to attack Jealous, I genuinely thought he was scum. But apparently for no other reason than him attacking Lunatic, which after the flip is kind of hard to sell? Show nested quote +
For claiming to know my meta you have a strange way of repeating history. In the exact game you reference you come after me for having low volume, for not liking the way I voted, and for not having scum reads, all around D1 and N1. Sound familiar? The case that caught HtS came AFTER a reassessment of the game and AFTER being attacked by yourself and others for not having scumreads. You paint me as a mover and shaker that gets shit done but forget that I really wasn't until I gained a mound of town cred for my role in getting HtS lynched. It is eerie how similar this early game dynamic between us is.
#2. "DYH baited a conversation" sounds so devious. As if I was luring Stutters into some big mistake. Which was what exactly? Talking to me? Talking about ptmc? I phrased it the way I did because why the hell not. I don't have a plan or a scheme or a reason outside of wanting to hear what he thought of ptmc and doing so before disagreeing with him about SEQ. Which is exactly what happened. I don't know where you are getting, "Stutters didn't take the bait". He gave me 2 solid thoughts on ptmc. Just because they were brief and my thoughts on SEQ weren't doesn't change that.
i don't care about either side on these points Show nested quote +
#3. Me in respect to the Luna lynch is the only decent point you make here. I didn't think providing a town read on Stutters without a reason made him scum. After all, I had done the exact same thing and everyone focusing on Luna completely ignored it. I was actually thinking he was town, even after the power role crap even though it was anti-town. It was far from a confident read, but that was the way I was leaning. It wasn't until he had shut down for a goodly length of time that I started accepting him as a good lynch target. With him actually flipping scum my hesitancy in pursuing him and voting him doesn't look good, fair enough.
so, you agree that a case against you makes sense Show nested quote +
However, here is where your argument is just bad. I did not like the play of Dane and Jealous, I thought their play was scummy. Their suspicions happened to be on Luna.
I don't agree that they "happened to be" on Luna. They called him out for playing weird, and his play just got weirder from it. And why would you focus on only Dane and Jealous, when literally the whole thread except for you, scott and stutters (and superbia) was pressuring Lunatic? Show nested quote +
I thought Luna's play was anti-town and it was his lack of activity that pushed him into scummy territory. I wasn't putting forth my guess for the complete scum team, I was putting forth the people who looked scummy enough to me that I would want to lynch them, without drawing on pre-flip association.
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Every way you characterize me as scum is undercut by something else you don't like.
I don't want to analyse Luna but I engage Jealous on the topic. I 'defend' Luna by putting Dane and Jealous in my lynch list, but do nothing to move the lynch. I 'bus' Luna but in no way set myself up to look good on the flip.
I feel like the bus was too quick for mafia to react with a decent bus anyway. Yes Show nested quote +but I would be the most half-measure, lackluster scum ever, failing to take advantage of anything. I would really hope you would realize I'm better than that.
so far i see very little good from you. Easily leaning towards the half-measure scum. Show nested quote +
Lastly, this isn't my scum meta. As scum I lurk, I position myself to look good the vast majority of the time, and I'm addicted to being right.
I don't care about this. Show us you're towny instead of defending your play from D1!
This mentality I like aswell.
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On September 28 2016 02:36 scott31337 wrote:
So Xata, you saying your scum reads are DYH, Skynx with me as a possible third, is that correct?
Scumreads DYH, scumreads me for scumreading DYH when I was supposed to scumread Luna. Feelsbadman.
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I have to cook. Reading others after the break.
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Oh yeah Super was a nice dodge.
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On September 27 2016 18:01 Rels wrote:RIP
I mean this shit is funny everytime it happens.
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On September 28 2016 03:32 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2016 02:41 Skynx wrote:On September 28 2016 02:36 scott31337 wrote:
So Xata, you saying your scum reads are DYH, Skynx with me as a possible third, is that correct? Scumreads DYH, scumreads me for scumreading DYH when I was supposed to scumread Luna. Feelsbadman. Too much Twitch.... You're probably not scum with DYH, but it's very possible you're the scum out of that duo.
I mean correct me if I'm wrong but thats like your biggest argument sr'ing me no?
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On September 28 2016 18:42 Calix wrote:
I don't relate to a lot of the associative logic that's being used. Probably a site meta difference because scum on my site are more prone to low-key pushing their scum buddies to distance themselves before making some weird-ass defenses of them later on so it's really jarring to see people (like myself, Skynx, TT, etc) get town-read with the first point as a large contributing factor to that town-read. Is it really that rare for scum buddies to question each other?
Both the Skynx case (by Xatalos) and the Xatalos associations case (by Skynx) were absolute crap and were reliant on confirmation bias to support a pre-existing point. They just consisted of some throwaway comments which may possibly indicate scum/ scum interactions but maybe not and it was painful to read. Of those posts, TT made the best point when he said that Xatalos was being a hedge master with regards to Lunatic and talking too much and saying too little. Could just be how he talks (if anyone who's played with him before could chip in with their thoughts there then that would be good) but if I find the time then I'm going to see if his tone changed over the game. If it did then that's incriminating as hell.
Skynx' reaction to Xatalos was the most riled up I've seen him and that was in response to him being attacked. It stands out to me because of the departure from his more resigned "lynch me" attitude near the D1 EOD to someone who is defending themselves more vigorously.
@Skynx, what changed for you here?
Right now I think DYH is the best lynch. He's still not scum-hunting and whatever he's preparing had better be good and a lot of his defense was WIFOM (I wouldn't do X as scum) and meta analysis (which I don't understand nor do I care to because meta is shit). It's funny because he's spent more time on talking about himself over anyone else and that self-involvement is not something that comes from town.
Yeah, this can die.
Stutters is also scummy. Something I've noticed with him is that he is always promising to do certain things ("I'll have this big post ready before EON/ EOD" being just one example) but has followed through on almost none of them and I have not seen a RL reason for him not doing that or any explanation at all. He just drops it. It's like he says that to get people off his back because nobody wants to waste someone's time when they've promised to do XYZ.
@Scott, I've just started university and I just got a new job, so I only get an hour or so to myself on most days.
Above two are the players I think are the most likely scum atm. I think Scott is also a possibility and TT's points make me want to re-visit my Xatalos read too. Also going to look at Jealous, Skynx too just because they have been less active so I need to remind myself of what they've done this game.
Man you might wanna read it again i think you got us mixed up.
None of my reasons voting Xata was associative, in fact quite the opposite i sr him cuz of his bad reasons for associating me with Lunatic which are all long long shots of assumption the way he presented them. My case is based on the fact that town!Xata is incapable of reaching these conclusions from an unbiased pow.
About me presenting myself as lynch target i agree that now it turned out to be a bad idea cuz i havent read the thread at all at that point and didnt knew Luna's lynch was like 95% certain. It was mainly cuz i've been so busy and town would be right to lynch me at that point.
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I have class til 5, when im home I'll read some stutters and jealous.
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Wow Stutters has absolutely 0 content in his filter.
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On September 28 2016 19:40 ptmc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2016 18:42 Calix wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I don't relate to a lot of the associative logic that's being used. Probably a site meta difference because scum on my site are more prone to low-key pushing their scum buddies to distance themselves before making some weird-ass defenses of them later on so it's really jarring to see people (like myself, Skynx, TT, etc) get town-read with the first point as a large contributing factor to that town-read. Is it really that rare for scum buddies to question each other?
Both the Skynx case (by Xatalos) and the Xatalos associations case (by Skynx) were absolute crap and were reliant on confirmation bias to support a pre-existing point. They just consisted of some throwaway comments which may possibly indicate scum/ scum interactions but maybe not and it was painful to read. Of those posts, TT made the best point when he said that Xatalos was being a hedge master with regards to Lunatic and talking too much and saying too little. Could just be how he talks (if anyone who's played with him before could chip in with their thoughts there then that would be good) but if I find the time then I'm going to see if his tone changed over the game. If it did then that's incriminating as hell.
Skynx' reaction to Xatalos was the most riled up I've seen him and that was in response to him being attacked. It stands out to me because of the departure from his more resigned "lynch me" attitude near the D1 EOD to someone who is defending themselves more vigorously.
@Skynx, what changed for you here?
Right now I think DYH is the best lynch. He's still not scum-hunting and whatever he's preparing had better be good and a lot of his defense was WIFOM (I wouldn't do X as scum) and meta analysis (which I don't understand nor do I care to because meta is shit). It's funny because he's spent more time on talking about himself over anyone else and that self-involvement is not something that comes from town.
Yeah, this can die.
Stutters is also scummy. Something I've noticed with him is that he is always promising to do certain things ("I'll have this big post ready before EON/ EOD" being just one example) but has followed through on almost none of them and I have not seen a RL reason for him not doing that or any explanation at all. He just drops it. It's like he says that to get people off his back because nobody wants to waste someone's time when they've promised to do XYZ. + Show Spoiler +
@Scott, I've just started university and I just got a new job, so I only get an hour or so to myself on most days.
Above two are the players I think are the most likely scum atm. I think Scott is also a possibility and TT's points make me want to re-visit my Xatalos read too. Also going to look at Jealous, Skynx too just because they have been less active so I need to remind myself of what they've done this game.
Finally someone also sees the scumminess in him. I was starting to think i was insane Show nested quote +On September 28 2016 18:51 Rels wrote:
I want to respond to your Stutters thing but I'm leaving for lunch. I'll do it after that because to me he's either confirmed town or scum depending on how this game develops, unless I misread something Please do. there are definitely cases where I can see him being town in the future, but I don't feel like the overarching tr he is getting atm is warranted.
You guys are both right,
+ Show Spoiler [Broken Promises] +On September 24 2016 14:17 Stutters695 wrote:
Going to the bar for a bit so don't expect a lot of activity. What is RVS On September 25 2016 08:03 Stutters695 wrote:
Seriously, did no one else catch what I quoted before I left besides Luna?
I'll give you a hint, go read SEQs filter (9 posts). The one I quoted shows a clear lack of reading, even incredibly early in the game.
I'm working another 2 hours, but if anyone has any questions fire away. No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own. On September 25 2016 11:38 Stutters695 wrote:
Will do in a bit. At a bar atm. On September 25 2016 11:52 Stutters695 wrote:
I'll type this up in full once we leave and I go home, but drunk me would also be all about a Luna lynch Too much barz n bitchez. On September 26 2016 03:35 Stutters695 wrote:
Catchinh up right now On September 27 2016 00:01 Stutters695 wrote:
Here's what's going to happen. I'm going to type some stuff up. Usually I would wait until EoD, but I work before then so I'll just throw it out. You guys will be like "wow, he does things and they make some sense, this dude is probably town." Just know you're cutting into my Overwatch time and that makes me sad.
I have 100% confidence I won't be lynched. #Shotsfired also Overwatch sucks. On September 27 2016 03:37 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 03:11 Skynx wrote:
Both Scott and Jeal look alright to me why ppl wanna lynch them?
One of the bussers is prolly one of the highly townread pace controllers aka Xata/Rels/Calix.
I might have some time in evening. I'm almost positive Calix isn't scum. After the early responses and just solid logic/play, I can't see it. Easily my strongest town read. Unless the plan was to bus from the start, it's also very unlikely Rels is scum since he could have just ignored Luna's read on me. Xata I'm not as confident on but I've got a town feeling about him. Admittedly, I haven't finished my reread (stopped at pg 20) but even what I remember from after that point seemed pretty solid. Jealous is about the same as Xata for me right now. Scott DYH DanelerH ptmc likely has a scum among them, which I need to look into more. Early inclination is Scott/Dan especially. And this is the only opinion presenting activity that is based on some stuff in his entire filter.
Also this is super shady:
On September 24 2016 14:31 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ Interesting idea. What does this achieve?
Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night. Emphasis mine. I'd lynch for this
On September 25 2016 08:03 Stutters695 wrote:
Seriously, did no one else catch what I quoted before I left besides Luna?
I'll give you a hint, go read SEQs filter (9 posts). The one I quoted shows a clear lack of reading, even incredibly early in the game.
I'm working another 2 hours, but if anyone has any questions fire away. No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own.
So accusing SEQ/TT for whatever reason here "lack of reading" cough. This is then completely abandoned and only Luna notices it for some reason. I wonder if it has anything to do with SEQ getting shit ton of townreads.
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On September 27 2016 05:53 ptmc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 05:44 Skynx wrote:
I read Calix filter, pretty sure he's town almost 100% of the time with the actualy game solving mentality throughout.
Scott and Super I'm ok with tr'ing based on the tone. Like the all natural and genuine tone is there for majority of their posts while I'm not getting the same for some people. Man who was it someone told me Scott never ever busses as scum anyone can relate?
how is tone the best thing you have for reading scott? Superbia maybe because he wasn't around, but scott has done several weird things to get such a free pass from you.
Can you quote some bad Scott posts?
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On September 25 2016 23:50 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 23:26 Lunaticman wrote:On September 25 2016 21:10 Xatalos wrote:On September 25 2016 18:23 Lunaticman wrote:
I wonder how not wanting to state a read because it will reveal a blue role is equal towards being mafia. The reason for not saying anything is because that is based o information town dont want mafia to know.
This game is just full of paragraf knights. I told you why I didnt want to say my SINGLE read and I got forced. Saying I wasnt forced is a lie.
And when I do say why Im a coward, so either way Im scum. And that dosent even make sense.
It is also intresting to see that town once again town reads the people with most posts as town.
Remember that mafia always sound smater and better because they know who is mafia and are working with perfect information.
Lastly I yet to see a day one lynch of a mafia player so anything that happens day one usually is just speculation.
My time is precious this weekend the little spare time I have not working is spent defending myself. I dont really have time to do what I want which is identify townies and lookig for mafia in the top posters day one.
A good example is my last normal game in which I found the gf day one and was unsuccessful in lynching him 3 days in a row because the mafia undermined me constantly. But why did you say that Stutter was a strong town read in the first place without any reasoning? Isn't that the same as claiming that he's potentially a blue in your opinion (from scum perspective)? Granted, it could also be a complicated meta reason or something, but having a blue read is often the reason if someone doesn't want to say his reasons for a read. And then why reveal the blue read so quickly anyway under a bit of pressure? It's just... pretty much a disastrous chain of events, especially if you're town and correct. It's also disastrous if you're scum, so... Just why? So you don't have hunches? I'm just saying nothing that has been said today has been nothing but speculation and you are accusing me of not giving reasons? God ok I'll play your game: Stutters is town because I have a meta read on him. Satisified? "No, how can you know that?" "Because I played with him before" "Really explain!" On and on this goes. the TL mafia community really has a hard time dealing with people playing emotionally rather than using logic. I'm probably not going to respond to anything related to my first town read anymore. It feels like beating a dead horse. TL;DR: I got frustrated by people asking me reasonable questions in response to my dodgy nature and unsupported read, so I did something anti-town and now I'm going to blame the community for it.
This is super town response.
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On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote:I'll answer to earlier questions for me etc. later, but I had an idea while at work that I just had to start working on as soon as I could... So the following post is about that. It should make things a lot clearer at least for me  The idea being: two levels of scummy interactions, one for Lunatic <--> others and the other for the scummiest of the previous ones <--> each other to figure out 3-man scumteams that make sense. Let's see where this goes. (huge thanks to ptmc's post here by the way, it saved me a lot of time: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513316-newbie-student-mafia-xxiii?page=35#695 ) 1) Lunatic <--> othersDanelerHPushed Lunatic through most of D1 and possibly caused him to "shut down" in the thread. I highly doubt he would do that to his teammate. Lunatic appeared genuinely pressured as well, making odd (in hindsight) claims like the blue read on Stutters and going overly defensive. CalixPretty much started the Stutters-read pressure on Lunatic and participated in forming his lynch wagon. Kind of similar to DanelerH, hard to see scum doing that to each other from the start of the game. StuttersA more controversial pick for green color, perhaps, but I agree with whoever said that it would be extremely rare for scum to immediately throw a strong townread on their teammate like Lunatic did. It would only link them together in everyone's minds (something scum would definitely not want) and make the other look bad/scum if the other flips. In addition, it wouldn't come naturally as a careless throwaway comment like how Lunatic said it. It just fits so much better as a casual, too strong townread on someone he would know to be town in advance. Also, I have an interesting theory related to Stutters, but that's best left for later. RelsJumped on the Lunatic wagon pretty early and questioned his read on Stutters earlier on, but nothing truly conclusive. Town lean? - - - - - - (the point after which I can see these people being scum with Lunatic to some meaningful extent) SEQ/TictockVoted for Lunatic, but otherwise ??? JealousHard to say. Had Lunatic as a lynch candidate / scum for most of D1, but nothing exactly conclusive to their relations happened. scottCan't say I agree with ptmc's assessment about how weirdly he interacted with Lunatic. His posts almost mirror my thoughts at the time of their writing (even regarding Stutters and DanelerH)... but it's true that he was pretty "on the fence" about lynching Lunatic or not during D1 so it's not too hard to see a Lunatic/scott team. DYHPassive towards Lunatic and the whole D1 lynch in general. His Lunatic vote was pretty "resigned" and late as well. Could well be scum with Lunatic. SkynxSoft-defended Lunatic, ignored him or counter-pushed away from him on several occasions during D1 (see ptmc's eventlist for easy details, just search for "Skynx" lines in red text, or read his filter). Never pressured Lunatic or contributed to his lynch either (no, the one-liner "Lunatic had the worst intro post I guess" didn't impact his own or anyone else's play during D1). A Lunatic/Skynx scumteam makes the most sense to me. 2) Sensible scumteams?Now it's the time to check if any of the players who could be scum with Lunatic would fit as scum with each other. Skynx/DYH?Doesn't seem very likely. Skynx pushed DYH late during D1, and it would be pretty stupid to go through that trouble just to perhaps get a scum lynched instead of another scum. More sensible options would have been to bus Lunatic or to push a townie. I guess it could have been distancing, but that doesn't seem likely in that high-stakes situation. Verdict: NOSkynx/scott?Skynx soft-defends scott in a couple of his posts, otherwise nothing. scott barely mentions Skynx, but when he does, in a slightly positive light. This team could make sense. Verdict: YESSkynx/Jealous?Jealous doesn't really mention Skynx until very recently where he said that he "doesn't like Skynx but he's not necessarily scummy". Skynx doesn't really talk about Jealous at all. Verdict: YESSkynx/SEQ/Tictock?Not much, but Skynx congratulates SEQ for questioning Lunatic... And Tictock calls Skynx town for "pressuring Lunatic"??? In reality, it was the opposite situation, just read Skynx's filter or ptmc's summary. Not really sure if scum would so blatantly prop up another, but something is off. Verdict: YESDYH/scott?Not completely sure about this one, but I guess they do fit somehow. scott agrees that DYH is scummy, but not much beyond that.... They also have a weird interaction where they start to "chat" with each other, but nothing happens? Verdict: YESDYH/Jealous?Not likely. DYH has pressured/scumread Jealous on several occasions and similarly Jealous has been scumreading DYH. A double bus in this game state is a bit too unlikely... Verdict: NODYH/SEQ/Tictock?DYH defended SEQ somewhat, but Tictock has been quite anti-DYH. Could be bussing, I guess, but hard to say. Verdict: ?scott/Jealous?scott scumread Jealous D1, but townread him after the Lunatic lynch since Jealous "never wavered on lynching Lunatic". Jealous put scott as a lynch candidate after Lunatic was lynched. Overall, uncertain for now. Verdict: ?scott/SEQ/Tictock?Kind of like with Jealous, scott first (slightly) scumreads SEQ and townreads him after Lunatic was lynched since he "never wavered on lynching Lunatic". SEQ never mentions scott. Tictock calls scott "prob town but kinda null". I guess this scumteam could work... Verdict: YESJealous/SEQ/Tictock?SEQ townreads Jealous early on, later on unsure. Tictock calls Jealous null. Jealous doesn't really voice an opinion on SEQ/Tictock. Verdict: YESIf I missed something, please point it out. This has been a ton of work and there's probably a mistake somewhere at this point. In any case, it's time for the conclusions based on earlier stuffs. Here are the sensible possible scumteams that are left now: Skynx/scott Skynx/Jealous Skynx/Tictock DYH/scott scott/Tictock Jealous/Tictock Frankly, I'm not too confident that DYH is scum based on this. He would almost have to be scum with scott. Meanwhile Skynx could basically be scum with anyone besides DYH. scott isn't very limited either, but I like him better than either Skynx or DYH. Well, I'd be glad to hear other opinions on these findings.
Here is my opinion: SEQ is town. Jeal is town. I'm town. You're scum.
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Here's an updated list
Never lynch town: Calix, ptmc
Likely town: Jealous, Rels, TT(SEQ)
Null: Dan, Scott
Likely scum: Stutters
Almost definitely scum: Xatalos, DYH
Dan and scott I kinda forgot about their existence at this point, they are next on my list to read. I remember light sr'ing Dan on accusations with bad reasonings early on but thats about it, he kinda fell of the radar. Scott I remember seeing a few nice posts but nothing special.
Top towns are self explanatory, they really get the game going on and did most of the work.
Jeal and TT are town to me when i went through their fiter. SEQ for pushing Luna from the get go, Jeal for town reactions throughout the filter. Rels is pretty similar to Jeal, mostly due reactions but he also seems to fall into my logic regarding DYH and Xata so mind meld works here. These 3 however I'd be happy if they posted more lists and reads.
Stutters filter is prolly worst of all people in the game but nothing implying scum otherwise.
Check my cases on top scum.
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That 5 town in my post + me I'm like 95% certain there is no scum infliltrator in there, + me thats 6 so work as a team guys and this will be an easy game.
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Any questions? 
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EPT
