On April 19 2016 14:23 sicklucker wrote: dont waste your time tbh. its all based on us being a team because we post at the same time.
not even brah,
I told you something made me ask you that first question : P
like how super has said jack all about how you too stayed on him after he claimed
or how you guys dont ever fucking read eachother (even though obi has no excuse)
or how you all pretty much agree that tumble and jas are scum around the same time frame / :
the timing on your answers was just gravy.
well I was just scum with him and super knows I would sniff him out. Hes playing the same style as then. We already lost im going to post the minimum and just make last minute attempts to get lynches off me. Hell it worked that game tbh lets not do that here
Also what sniff him out XD your already voting him erday everyday what did he have to lose?
I'd like to apologize for the excitement over the timing thing, it is a bit loose on its own XD I originally came to the conclusion that obi and sick are scum together due to how super was avoiding saying anything about them (even though they stayed on him after his claimed and if they are town they are perfect targets) and likewise they were avoiding saying anything about each other. And also how they basically had identical scum reads (jas and tumble to a lesser degree)
I asked sick about obi because between them obi was the end game bet(sick dies a lot)so I figured sick would make no real points about obi.
27 minutes or so later the both respond simultaneously after being gone from thread for a while. And sick gave me the exactl the answer that I expected / : "impossible"
It was really just gravy. The meat of my read is what prompted me to ask the case in the first place ( last wall of text has most of that )
I also had some other guiding evidence ,the plan that scum made around the Palmer shot and how it collapsed, the argument that tumble must be town if super is not rb and of course the likelihood that given supers play and schedule that he was likely fine with bieng bussed day 1.
These points clear more players than you would at first think / :
None of this is relevant of course until we confirm that super isn't actually just an awful dock, but can't blame a fellow for getting excited XD
On April 19 2016 23:36 Rels wrote: Actually the excitement is a town indicator in general, and it's even bigger for you who apparently have a difficulty tryharding as scum given your filter sizes. I think OWS and SL are town, OWS more than SL; but since this theory is linking the two, OWS being town would mean your SL scumread is mostly unfounded. ^^
Oks : D obviously I would kill sl first ( pshhh I'm not a monster ) but yeah, I feel pretty solid about this one, I'm weak early game but when I can start putting a few pieces together is when I can reliably catch scum usually. And there are ALOT of pieces this game.
Psa never listen to what I say at Lylo, I'm always wrong on the final stage ) :
On April 19 2016 05:40 Rels wrote: JAT I find your behaviour around Superbia weird. You're constantly giving him outs and not committing to calling him scum even though it's pretty likely he is given the way he claimed.
On April 19 2016 02:14 justanothertownie wrote:
On April 19 2016 00:58 ObiWanShinobi wrote: All of the arguments in the world won't mean anything if you're pushing the only Doctor claim in the game.
The lynch simply can't happen without a cc and, if there isn't one, super is essentially confirmed town.
This is a nonargument: this is basic mafia and I'm not going through with this lynch unless someone contests the claim.
As long as superbia doesn't put in a good effort to make me think he could be town I see no reason to out a potential doctor. A save would gain us a mislynch.
On April 19 2016 02:42 justanothertownie wrote:
On April 19 2016 00:51 rsoultin wrote: we 100% can and should because even if he is the doc he will be rb'd until the end of time. the only way i don't condone lynching him is if he busts his balls here and convinces me he's town the way all non-power roles have to do
Your reasoning is bogus. If he is doc then not lynching is always better because he is confirmed without a cc and we don't ever have to lynch him without mafia 1v1ing him. BUT
On April 19 2016 00:58 ObiWanShinobi wrote: All of the arguments in the world won't mean anything if you're pushing the only Doctor claim in the game.
The lynch simply can't happen without a cc and, if there isn't one, super is essentially confirmed town.
This is a nonargument: this is basic mafia and I'm not going through with this lynch unless someone contests the claim.
This is also not optimal because if he is mafia we are outing our doctor (who is extremely important right now) for no reason. He already escaped the lynch day1. I won't hand him a doctor claim on top of that for this effort.
Super needs to stop being terrible and play the game for real sooner rather than later or we are just lynching him and I will absolutely blame him if he is town later. He isn't a scrub who can be allowed to do his. If he puts in effort/seems towny later we can still call for a cc and if there is none we lynch someone else. But without superbia trying there won't be anything else than his lynch happening today. He doesn't deserve it regardless of his alignment.
And yes, as long as this keeps going there is no real benefit for the vig claiming.
On April 19 2016 03:13 justanothertownie wrote:
On April 19 2016 03:09 rsoultin wrote:
On April 19 2016 03:06 justanothertownie wrote:
On April 19 2016 03:03 rsoultin wrote:
On April 19 2016 02:48 justanothertownie wrote: [quote] No, you said lynching him would be better anyways if he is town because "we can never trust him" which is certified bogus.
nope
"the only way i don't condone lynching him is if he busts his balls here and convinces me he's town the way all non-power roles have to do"
i'm gonna stop arguing here cause it's nonsensical, but seriously dude. it's obvious we're saying the same thing stop being silly lol ><
No, it is not. You clearly said it wouldn't be bad to lynch him since he will be rbed anyways. Which is stupid. But we can stop this argument for all I care.
if the only reason you have to think he's town is his claim and he's not spewing himself town in other ways, of course it is. he'll always be a question mark. now you just don't want to admit you misread my post -_- pft typical jat
but yeah yeah i'll be good and stop arguing since it doesn't matter lolol <3 you remind me of lexy sometimes
but yeah i still like a tw lynch. it would take a lot to convince me he's town this game. i really don't even think it's possible at this point
I didn't misread anything. Mislynching him is always a mistake. It's a mistake I am willing to do though because he is a good player.
On April 19 2016 05:03 justanothertownie wrote:
On April 19 2016 04:31 Superbia wrote: Like I agree my d1 was very afkish, and this day isn't any better. But I'm the fucking doctor??
You will surely understand that we don't really want to take your word for that the way the day1 lynch went.
You claimed last minute to save yourself which is the correct thing to do as either alignment. You claimed the not confirmable role. Your day1 sucked. You tried to go after Palmar on a weekend when you should know better - it was the most mafia agendaish and opportunistic thing I have seen a player do in ages. Town Palmar also wanted you dead very badly and randomly died in the night. If you are the town doc it is your own goddamn fault that you were up for lynch and had to claim. Now it is your goddamn job to convince us that you aren't just a lazy scummer who tries to get the most out of a logical fakeclaim. That's not asking too much.
Why do you feel the need for these posts ? Especially, the fact that you explain your thinking about Superbia again and again. That is what is bothering me in particular
I have absolutely no idea what could be possibly bothering you about those posts?! It's clearly the best way to proceed and some clowns needed explanation to understand it. Of course I am giving Superbia an out. If you don't you are retarded.
Like, it is not hard. Yes, I think he is mafia and I made that clear quite often already but I have been wrong before and he IS an uncced medic right now so if you do not acknowledge the possibility that he is town or refuse to give him opportunity to show it if that is the case then you have no idea how to play this game.
Ofc I recognize the possibility that Superbia is doc and played the worst game of his life. If he is though, he will step up by himself. He's likely scum, and if he is he doesn't need your encouragement that if he tryhards he will maybe survive. I don't really believe "some clowns needed explanation to understand it" too, since the votecount is so unanimous. Who did you mean by that ? The persons you responded to in the quotes of yours in my post ? Cause apart from OWS you responded to rsoultin (who wants to lynch him) and Superbia himself (doesn't do anything regardless of his alignment.
What is the point? If you don't understand what I said or why reread it and you will. If you were town super you probably wouldn't be very inclined to do stuff if everyone just said lynch him anyways. And why the hell would I say that as is scumbuddy? In essence - what I said made sense and was warranted and even if it wasn't it would still not be scum indicative. Your angle hrte
that feel when mah two top reads are arguing with each other -_-
The nice thing about nailing scum is even if town doesn't take you seriously, they do XD
Heres one of points that super responded to.
like how super has said jack all about how you too stayed on him after he claimed
this is his answer
well I was just scum with him and super knows I would sniff him out. Hes playing the same style as then. We already lost im going to post the minimum and just make last minute attempts to get lynches off me. Hell it worked that game tbh lets not do that here
he asserts that super is not coming after them because "sl would sniff him out" but if sl is town hes already sniffed his fill and super would know that XD so why is super not saying shit about two players who stayed on him even after his claim?
dude even called obi scum early
Also because GB and Obi are in your scum listy and I'm leaning the same way.
so whats with this days long gap of not even acknowledging they're existence?
Sl's reasoning is bullshit XD because there is no good reason for super not to be pushing obi and sl right now if they're opposite alignment
instead his current scum read is jas XD same as the people permavoting him that he cant seem to tell exist.
so thats just a flat out contradiction (love those)
overall we have the following links- obi and sl both stayed on super after his claim, they both got on him early, they both dont read each other (even though obi has no excuse) and they both seem to get carte blanch from super.
and of course, they have a habit of posting at the same time using the same arguments
obi after a 17 min gap in the questioning
I take it you don't get the "I'm an unreadable myth" thing that's going around, do you?
sick 1 min after
because I cant read obi. If i was vig I would have shot him
They just seem really coordinated while not acknowledging one another / : (they bring up this read wall thing at the same time even though it hasnt been really mentioned once this game, their just so in synch its amazing XD)
oh and also they are both blue hunting
obi
But he's the uncc'd doctor.
Like, do we even have any idea who else to lynch outside of the Doctor claim?
sl
(also though this is one kinda trolly XD)
but who is the doctor?
which lines up perfectly with supers current scum agenda, which is to trade himself for doc.
also sl scum slipped a smidge
like your just going to have to trust me. hes not the doctor
in general sl has been uncannily right all game
he supposdly knew fazzers was town
it was a terrible vig shot fazzers was my top town. new players are so easy to read sign...
but if he was reading the thread at all, he should have known fazzers was a vig target yet he did nothing to deter the shot on him.
Fazers - Future mvp of tl mafia calling it now
(troll comment)
and then come night
lol 3 towns voted super nevermind...
doesnt even mention fazzer's name...
I think it's safe to assume that sl knew he was town (as he claims) but did not care about him getting shot because hes scum / :
oh my god, you guys wont appreciate this, but I found the smoking gun.
whoever vigged palmar/faz who was on the super wagon needs to check their head
Aside from the fact that sl is basically the only time someone has ever considered the vig shot to have been on palmar(which would line up with the whole scum shot to back super play) the point here is, he suddenly thinks the 'vig' shot on plamar was terrible????? even though he was pushing palmar earlier?
no its not palmar was literally reading rstoulin off of nothing. He formed his read before any data really came in. Then he may have formulated a read to suit his needs. Its far more likely that the random person he pushed early and voted is acualy his top scum read.
(huh, he was pushing palmar and super at the same time, how does that work)
Theres just so much to poke at in sls filter I'm shocked more people arent scum reading him atm / :
On April 19 2016 23:28 gumshoe wrote: I'd like to apologize for the excitement over the timing thing, it is a bit loose on its own XD I originally came to the conclusion that obi and sick are scum together due to how super was avoiding saying anything about them (even though they stayed on him after his claimed and if they are town they are perfect targets) and likewise they were avoiding saying anything about each other. And also how they basically had identical scum reads (jas and tumble to a lesser degree)
I asked sick about obi because between them obi was the end game bet(sick dies a lot)so I figured sick would make no real points about obi.
27 minutes or so later the both respond simultaneously after being gone from thread for a while. And sick gave me the exactl the answer that I expected / : "impossible"
It was really just gravy. The meat of my read is what prompted me to ask the case in the first place ( last wall of text has most of that )
I also had some other guiding evidence ,the plan that scum made around the Palmer shot and how it collapsed, the argument that tumble must be town if super is not rb and of course the likelihood that given supers play and schedule that he was likely fine with bieng bussed day 1.
These points clear more players than you would at first think / :
None of this is relevant of course until we confirm that super isn't actually just an awful dock, but can't blame a fellow for getting excited XD
Yeah, the point about them making posts at the seem time made no sense to me.
It is strange how much of their thought process aligns though. however, like you said, super needs to flip for us to know this.
ALRIGHT SOMEONE SEES IT FINALLY I can shut up now XD see you all at the flip
On April 20 2016 03:19 justanothertownie wrote: The more you do this the more I think you are just trying to rile me up and to undermine my standing in this town.
BTW since you were arguing about basic mafia play, if you were town and I was scum, I wouldn't go against the hardest player to go against for no reason. There is no point in doing that.
There are only 2 options:
1) You are doing exactly this. 2) You are misrepresenting me and calling me mafia for things that don't make anyone mafia as town. Forgive me for having my doubts about that.
Dont make this into a dick measuring contest jat -_- sometimes townies go after townies for whatever reason. It happens, it's called days 1-3(assuming towns lucky enough for it to end there). If rels is scum here with super he has no reason to go after you, as his third scum buddy is unlikely to be more townie than him.
If rels is scum, and super is about to be lynched no matter what, right now he just has to settle in for the long haul and do whatever it takes not to get spotlighted.
On April 20 2016 03:19 justanothertownie wrote: The more you do this the more I think you are just trying to rile me up and to undermine my standing in this town.
BTW since you were arguing about basic mafia play, if you were town and I was scum, I wouldn't go against the hardest player to go against for no reason. There is no point in doing that.
There are only 2 options:
1) You are doing exactly this. 2) You are misrepresenting me and calling me mafia for things that don't make anyone mafia as town. Forgive me for having my doubts about that.
3) You are scum and you're angry I caught you over something so simple
yous a derp rels, a big ol / : derp.
I'll ask you the same question I asked tumble (I will be assuming super is scum for this question, as this whole argument is predicated on that and you insist on having it before the flip so there ya go)
If jat is scum, then he must have okd the shot on palmer in order to give supers vig claim weight.
if so, why did he immediatly shoot that possibility down?
Ok, I assume the vig shot fazers. Everything else would make me quite mad. Superbia claims with his first post today.
better yet, why did he go through with it in the first place? If he was scum, wouldn't he realize that shooting the same guy that super claimed he would kill would make no sense and would hurt his position far more than just a flat doc claim at the start of the day? Did he not realize fazzers had a good shot of dying?
It's ether a terrible oversight, or a flat out terrible play. Something I dont think ether of you would let go through.
On April 20 2016 03:19 justanothertownie wrote: The more you do this the more I think you are just trying to rile me up and to undermine my standing in this town.
BTW since you were arguing about basic mafia play, if you were town and I was scum, I wouldn't go against the hardest player to go against for no reason. There is no point in doing that.
There are only 2 options:
1) You are doing exactly this. 2) You are misrepresenting me and calling me mafia for things that don't make anyone mafia as town. Forgive me for having my doubts about that.
3) You are scum and you're angry I caught you over something so simple
yous a derp rels, a big ol / : derp.
I'll ask you the same question I asked tumble (I will be assuming super is scum for this question, as this whole argument is predicated on that and you insist on having it before the flip so there ya go)
If jat is scum, then he must have okd the shot on palmer in order to give supers vig claim weight.
if so, why did he immediatly shoot that possibility down?
Ok, I assume the vig shot fazers. Everything else would make me quite mad. Superbia claims with his first post today.
better yet, why did he go through with it in the first place? If he was scum, wouldn't he realize that shooting the same guy that super claimed he would kill would make no sense and would hurt his position far more than just a flat doc claim at the start of the day? Did he not realize fazzers had a good shot of dying?
It's ether a terrible oversight, or a flat out terrible play. Something I dont think ether of you would let go through.
There is also the possibility that mafia just accepted that superbia was going down today and killed Palmar because a) he is a good player and their attempt to mislynch him while he was away failed b) he was an unlikely medic save. Palmar dying is not a reason to read me anything.
wrong, palmer dying throws suspicion onto super. as why would scum shoot the guy super claimed he was going to kill? unless they knew he was never going to kill him. Ie, scum knows supers not vig, how, cause supers scum. Hence why scum shot palmer without fear.
it outright makes no sense unless they were trying to pass it off as a vig shot. It was so very derp and I dont see a player like your rels letting that slip
On April 20 2016 03:58 Rels wrote: Sry gumshoe but I don't think your "vig kill" theory is likely. Palmar is a strong player and he got shot, maybe it was because of your plan which would mean the scumteam are complete idiots, and maybe he was shot because he is a strong player and nothing can be assumed about the scum team.
I am asserting the scum team are complete idiots.
ok. follow along I am going to make this really fucking simple
super claims. Scum has no idea what he is if super is town.
Super says hes going to shoot palmer
if super is not scum, why would scum shoot plamer thereby risking 2 kp on one target considering palmer was going to possibly die anyway?
the only explanation is scum knew that super wouldnt vig shoot palmer. They only way they could know that is if super is scum.
so scum knew super wasnt going to shoot palmer for sure (hence revealing him as scum)
scum being idiots (at least for night 1) is not a matter of speculation, it is a fact
they did not have to make the palmer shot call if they wanted to kill palmer, but they did, and if super did that of his own accord, someone competent (jat/rels) would have switched the target to avoid outing super completely.
On April 20 2016 04:07 Rels wrote: Yeah I don't follow. Let's assume Superbia is scum. Why do you assume Superbia wanted to maybe claim vig ? JAT is right in that the only claim he can make is doc.
thats not the key bit.
imagine your the scum team.
Super is claiming hes going to shoot palmer, you dont know if hes the vig or not. Though he did claim, so you cant rule that out.
So why would you shoot palmer if super said he was going to do that?
By shooting palmer scum reveal that they were not afraid of double shooting the same target. Hence revealing that super is scum (cause thats the only way they could rule out that not happening) the only reason to shoot palmer would be to back supers vig claim.
as for super, why claim your shot and heal that early? Only makes sense if he was trying to call a hit to gain cred, and if he was, why would scum hit that target? How did they know they werent wasting a vig mishot?
On April 20 2016 03:58 Rels wrote: Sry gumshoe but I don't think your "vig kill" theory is likely. Palmar is a strong player and he got shot, maybe it was because of your plan which would mean the scumteam are complete idiots, and maybe he was shot because he is a strong player and nothing can be assumed about the scum team.
I am asserting the scum team are complete idiots.
ok. follow along I am going to make this really fucking simple
super claims. Scum has no idea what he is if super is town.
Super says hes going to shoot palmer
if super is not scum, why would scum shoot plamer thereby risking 2 kp on one target considering palmer was going to possibly die anyway?
the only explanation is scum knew that super wouldnt vig shoot palmer. They only way they could know that is if super is scum.
They could also just rb super which is what they probably did if he is town. So since noone else would make that shot they knew they weren't risking 2 KP. Alternatively like I said earlier it is entirely possible that mafia decided superbia was basically dead already and didn't think about anything like that when making their kill.
not true, going into night 2 there were several people who thought tumble more scummy then super, one more kill before his lynch was not that farfetched. The shot killed all chance of that.
Also if they rbed him, and he was thier mislynch, why would they kill palmer, thereby giving him a half decent vig claim? Shooting palmer knowing that super might do just that for them makes no sense unless it was to give him a possible claim.
As soon as super flips, this could very well stop being speculation and turn over to fact / :
at which point it would be best to assume that were not dealing with a super great scum team.
On April 20 2016 04:07 Rels wrote: Yeah I don't follow. Let's assume Superbia is scum. Why do you assume Superbia wanted to maybe claim vig ? JAT is right in that the only claim he can make is doc.
thats not the key bit.
imagine your the scum team.
Super is claiming hes going to shoot palmer, you dont know if hes the vig or not. Though he did claim, so you cant rule that out.
So why would you shoot palmer if super said he was going to do that?
By shooting palmer scum reveal that they were not afraid of double shooting the same target. Hence revealing that super is scum (cause thats the only way they could rule out that not happening) the only reason to shoot palmer would be to back supers vig claim.
as for super, why claim your shot and heal that early? Only makes sense if he was trying to call a hit to gain cred, and if he was, why would scum hit that target? How did they know they werent wasting a vig mishot?
The mistake you are making is that you ignore the fact that mafia can (and will) just rb superbia if he is town.
why do that if hes going to kill plamer for them? the only way they rb him is if they feel they cant read him, as missing out on a vig miskp is a pretty shitty loss for scum.
but yeah let me boil this down as much as possible.
1: super claims hell kill palmer if hes vig, heal me if hes doc
2: if super is town, scum have little reason to doubt these two claims as they line up with his reads,
3: scum shoot palmer, the guy that super could very well be killing. this demonstrates no fear of doubling kp but also shows that scum are not afraid of giving super an out by actualizing his shot onto palmer. Which means if super is town, they may have just given him something he can use to save himself.
tldr scum are neither afraid of giving supers claim authenticity or missing out on a second miskp. Which means they know exactly what super is going to do because hes scum.
On April 20 2016 04:07 Rels wrote: Yeah I don't follow. Let's assume Superbia is scum. Why do you assume Superbia wanted to maybe claim vig ? JAT is right in that the only claim he can make is doc.
thats not the key bit.
imagine your the scum team.
Super is claiming hes going to shoot palmer, you dont know if hes the vig or not. Though he did claim, so you cant rule that out.
So why would you shoot palmer if super said he was going to do that?
By shooting palmer scum reveal that they were not afraid of double shooting the same target. Hence revealing that super is scum (cause thats the only way they could rule out that not happening) the only reason to shoot palmer would be to back supers vig claim.
as for super, why claim your shot and heal that early? Only makes sense if he was trying to call a hit to gain cred, and if he was, why would scum hit that target? How did they know they werent wasting a vig mishot?
The mistake you are making is that you ignore the fact that mafia can (and will) just rb superbia if he is town.
why do that if hes going to kill plamer for them? the only way they rb him is if they feel they cant read him, as missing out on a vig miskp is a pretty shitty loss for scum.
True, but if he is town he is probably trying to WIFOM mafia with that statement. They can't risk that.
I dont know, I totes would let a guy kill his shot claim if thats the dude hes been scum reading all game / : if I'm not in someones cross hairs, I dont suddenly expect to be because of wifom.
On April 20 2016 04:24 gumshoe wrote: but yeah let me boil this down as much as possible.
1: super claims hell kill palmer if hes vig, heal me if hes doc
2: if super is town, scum have little reason to doubt these two claims as they line up with his reads,
3: scum shoot palmer, the guy that super could very well be killing. this demonstrates no fear of doubling kp but also shows that scum are not afraid of giving super an out by actualizing his shot onto palmer. Which means if super is town, they may have just given him something he can use to save himself.
tldr scum are neither afraid of giving supers claim authenticity or missing out on a second miskp. Which means they know exactly what super is going to do because hes scum.
2: Is just plain wrong since they knew super knew there is a roleblocker so they would never allow him shooting Palmar if Palmar was mafia. So super needs to make them think he will shoot town if he is town to get his shot off. Unrelated to this an argument could be made that this points towards superbia being mafia because he just said he would shoot the guy he called scum all the way
3: Super as town doesn't need them to give him anything to save himself. He will always save himself due to his claim without a cc from mafia. They won't trust him shooting Palmar so they will always rb him.
fair points, ultimately all I am saying is the nk was a mess and could have been carried out way more effectively.
I think it's possible super could have lived one more day if no cc came, but the nk killed all chance of that as it showed mafia was not really worried about conflicting with supers vig agenda.
EPT
