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On February 08 2016 03:08 disformation wrote:
Also @NM: can you explain to me why you randomly decided to read old games from Koshi and Palmar?
Wasn't random. Friday morning, I read Palmar's filter this game and same with Koshi's before I read other games. And the former especially in light of his performance in PYP and what I recall of Outlaw. That's why I tried to read more of his. Even at his most laziest there was Dark Tournament, which was a contrast to the games I read where he had either more solid town performances or where he wasn't accurate, more performances where he was invested or opinionated if that makes any sense.
Additionally, I had zero interaction with Palmar, and the limited I had with Koshi wasn't very good or didn't leave me a good impression of him.
I also had concerns about Koshi's lack of followup with ritoky and his reaction to me was just really meh.
Also as for marv, when I originally read his filter I liked the pokes he made on Palmar and VA.
Re: post-lynch, him falling in the same category where he switches to Zyrre last minute doesn't make him scum, esp when he looked at both players - JAT did the same thing.
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On February 08 2016 03:13 Koshi wrote:
Don't make it NM.
?????
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On February 08 2016 00:59 disformation wrote:
Looking through VA's filter.
I like that he was able to step back and reevaluate NM. I also like a few other posts and his tone. Didn't really like the suggestion for a NVT to claim. There are also not that many reads in his filter imo.
Would like him to put out a few more of those.
There were a few things I didn't like about VA which I discussed, and he's not done much to show he's town (the lynch Palmar thing after the day 1 lynch where he's effectively claimed scum won't say much). Additionally, if Palmar is scum, his vote on Palmar is actually bad - it screams bus city for 3 reasons.
(1) it was inorganic
(2) it was well after concerns about Palmar had been expressed (pokes particularly by Marv early in the game I'm sure were before this)
(3) it was done at a time where he needed town cred (mafia motivation is to bus for cred), because at that time, only Damdred was townreading him, or heck it might have even been before that. ritoky and I were scumreading VA to some various degree, and I don't think most of this game had a read on VA when they were asked to eval VA v myself
VA prior to getting on Palmar's wagon was pushing me and when he couldn't do that, he dropped the scumread, Additionally when I pushed him further earlier on, he got very defensive. Quotes:
On February 06 2016 03:10 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2016 02:59 NocturneMage wrote:EBWOP (at disformation): On February 06 2016 00:38 VayneAuthority wrote:
oh and ##vote: Palmar
He is supposed to be my day 1 antithesis, the pinnacle of good day 1 play. where is that here Read VAs filter. ZERO mention of Palmar and this timing was well after my post/others' discussion. Ask him that too. has the nocturnemage ever heard of sleep by any chance? Of course I wasn't around for 250+ posts when I'm sleeping. I really can't understand your constant antagonizing, making a case on me is fine but these constant asinine nitpicks are insane. I really don't understand.
On February 06 2016 03:58 VayneAuthority wrote:
The only thing truly scummy about NM disform is how he is a huge hypocrite. He is constantly berating me/scumreading me for things and then ignores anything that would have to make him justify it. Really annoying playstyle that makes it impossible to read him.
Especially the problem with the above is that the "sleep" explanation doesn't cover for his push on me earlier and his not mentioning Palmar at that time. It doesn't answer the concern in the least.
Now admittedly at this point in time, the vote thing is unflipped association, but if Palmar flips mafia, then he looks really bad despite voting Palmar.
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On February 08 2016 03:32 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 03:20 NocturneMage wrote:On February 08 2016 03:08 disformation wrote:
Also @NM: can you explain to me why you randomly decided to read old games from Koshi and Palmar? Wasn't random. Friday morning, I read Palmar's filter this game and same with Koshi's before I read other games. And the former especially in light of his performance in PYP and what I recall of Outlaw. That's why I tried to read more of his. Even at his most laziest there was Dark Tournament, which was a contrast to the games I read where he had either more solid town performances or where he wasn't accurate, more performances where he was invested or opinionated if that makes any sense. Additionally, I had zero interaction with Palmar, and the limited I had with Koshi wasn't very good or didn't leave me a good impression of him. I also had concerns about Koshi's lack of followup with ritoky and his reaction to me was just really meh. Also as for marv, when I originally read his filter I liked the pokes he made on Palmar and VA. Re: post-lynch, him falling in the same category where he switches to Zyrre last minute doesn't make him scum, esp when he looked at both players - JAT did the same thing. Hmpf. I should probably stop being so paranoid. Nah, paranoid is good. Okay, looked at Palmar's DT filter. Way better than here. Not sure if I buy that interaction thing. Like you seem like a way more logical-finding-contradictions-in-filters type of player. How is koshi switching his votes different from jat and marv switching votes?
Investment in respective wagons, which I'm pretty sure Rels touched on in his case.
General voting analysis rule - the more investment someone has in a given wagon, the more likely they are to be town.
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disformation -
You should be aware by now how invested JAT/marv were in the Palmar wagons. BY CONTRAST, Koshi was not as invested in the Zyrre wagon (amount of time/rationale). Am I making sense here? I'm going to use the first part of Rels' case to show you what I mean.
On February 08 2016 00:54 Rels wrote:This post got way bigger than I though, I'm trying my best to organize it. I don't like Koshi at all, he might very well be scum. Here is why: 1D1 the only real thing he did was pushing kush + opposing Palmar's lynch. That's it. No read on anyone else, especially Zyrre. Like, I think this is the only post about Zyrre in his filter: Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 08:10 Koshi wrote:On February 05 2016 08:05 Damdred wrote:
That zyrre post is so bad for so many reasons It actually isn't. I can see him believe that. I can believe it. Then: Show nested quote +On February 06 2016 02:58 Koshi wrote:
Kush comming in and giving a townread on Palmar and rescind a townread on Zyrre is not doing things. Well, he ended up voting Zurre with kush.
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On February 08 2016 03:37 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 03:36 NocturneMage wrote:On February 08 2016 03:32 disformation wrote:On February 08 2016 03:20 NocturneMage wrote:On February 08 2016 03:08 disformation wrote:
Also @NM: can you explain to me why you randomly decided to read old games from Koshi and Palmar? Wasn't random. Friday morning, I read Palmar's filter this game and same with Koshi's before I read other games. And the former especially in light of his performance in PYP and what I recall of Outlaw. That's why I tried to read more of his. Even at his most laziest there was Dark Tournament, which was a contrast to the games I read where he had either more solid town performances or where he wasn't accurate, more performances where he was invested or opinionated if that makes any sense. Additionally, I had zero interaction with Palmar, and the limited I had with Koshi wasn't very good or didn't leave me a good impression of him. I also had concerns about Koshi's lack of followup with ritoky and his reaction to me was just really meh. Also as for marv, when I originally read his filter I liked the pokes he made on Palmar and VA. Re: post-lynch, him falling in the same category where he switches to Zyrre last minute doesn't make him scum, esp when he looked at both players - JAT did the same thing. Hmpf. I should probably stop being so paranoid. Nah, paranoid is good. Okay, looked at Palmar's DT filter. Way better than here. Not sure if I buy that interaction thing. Like you seem like a way more logical-finding-contradictions-in-filters type of player. How is koshi switching his votes different from jat and marv switching votes? Investment in respective wagons, which I'm pretty sure Rels touched on in his case. General voting analysis rule - the more investment someone has in a given wagon, the more likely they are to be town. I don't understand this. All three switched. So they aren't very invested by default.
You don't understand what I mean by investment. Read my previous post just now, and even marvellosity explained to you that his pushing Palmar gave legitmacy (paraphrasing) to the wagon.
It's a time and effort thing.
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EBWOP - JAT did as well, but point stands - time and effort. Additionally marv had cause for reconsidering Zyrre and even more than Koshi ever did consider in comparison.
Consider that.
He's townie to me, just on the wrong side of the fence for that.
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On February 08 2016 03:40 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 03:37 NocturneMage wrote:disformation - You should be aware by now how invested JAT/marv were in the Palmar wagons. BY CONTRAST, Koshi was not as invested in the Zyrre wagon (amount of time/rationale). Am I making sense here? I'm going to use the first part of Rels' case to show you what I mean. On February 08 2016 00:54 Rels wrote:This post got way bigger than I though, I'm trying my best to organize it. I don't like Koshi at all, he might very well be scum. Here is why: 1D1 the only real thing he did was pushing kush + opposing Palmar's lynch. That's it. No read on anyone else, especially Zyrre. Like, I think this is the only post about Zyrre in his filter: On February 05 2016 08:10 Koshi wrote:On February 05 2016 08:05 Damdred wrote:
That zyrre post is so bad for so many reasons It actually isn't. I can see him believe that. I can believe it. Then: On February 06 2016 02:58 Koshi wrote:
Kush comming in and giving a townread on Palmar and rescind a townread on Zyrre is not doing things. Well, he ended up voting Zurre with kush. I don't think marv was invested at all.
at all?????
Are you not understanding what I mean by time and effort?
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Oh and VA, I'm not saying you are lying about sleeping. That wasn't what my point was at all. Considering my purpose of stating that in there along with my explanation before and after, I think you are (quite likely intentionally) missing the point.
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On February 07 2016 22:30 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2016 22:20 disformation wrote:On February 07 2016 22:17 Chezinu wrote:
Marv
boxer
disformation Is that your town list or your scum list? interest list. Marv and boxer scum team would be interesting.
Unless I missed it somewhere already, can you help me understand you a little better? Are you implying that marv and boxerfred are on a scumteam? Or are you saying it's unlikely?
The word "interesting" only tells me that it's a point worth further investigation - and some people in this thread might not even read it as that from my experience.
Are you implying something about their interactions?
I know you trolled disformation earlier but how does that tie into this?
(And if someone experienced with Chez, preferably a townread can help, that'd be great too.)
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On February 08 2016 03:46 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 03:42 NocturneMage wrote:
Oh and VA, I'm not saying you are lying about sleeping. That wasn't what my point was at all. Considering my purpose of stating that in there along with my explanation before and after, I think you are (quite likely intentionally) missing the point. 1. you are tunneling 2. you are fabricating whatever your point is, the only way that explanation makes sense is if you think I was lying about sleeping. The only way I would be able to join in the palmar discussion was if i was in the thread at the time.
(1) Nope. I'm pretty sure you're mafia. Try again.
(2) Nope again, you don't have to be in thread with Palmar to make that conclusion ahead of the time. Nor was my point even about you interacting with Palmar. Your reasoning for Palmar was this:
On February 06 2016 00:38 VayneAuthority wrote:
oh and ##vote: Palmar
He is supposed to be my day 1 antithesis, the pinnacle of good day 1 play. where is that here
Which is a point that is irrelevant to interactions.
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This next post is mainly for Rels and disformation regarding Moosy Doosy -
Day 1 - read pages 39 through 41
On February 05 2016 14:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
(1) You leap into game using convoluted af reasoning to explain shizz which is NM style of play. But tone read seems genuine which means ur trying to solve game. So town.
(2) At this point, there is a small group of people I don't try to read due to heavy bias. One of them is Damdred.
On February 05 2016 14:22 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 14:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
(1) You leap into game using convoluted af reasoning to explain shizz which is NM style of play. But tone read seems genuine which means ur trying to solve game. So town.
(2) At this point, there is a small group of people I don't try to read due to heavy bias. One of them is Damdred. Seeing as ritoky picked disformation and Rels as townreads, I'm going to ask you this next question. Both disformation and Rels have both scumread me at points for not being able to follow my train of thought. What does this make you think of them?
Night 1/Day 2
On February 07 2016 02:38 MoosyDoosy wrote:
There were some things about ritoky that ticked in my mind. I think it was concerning disfo.
mMmmm....I'm also conflicted on Rels which is never ever a good thing.
On February 07 2016 02:55 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Rels - I have a soul read situation with him that he knows as well. Every time in the past that I've been wary of him he's turned out to be Mafia. Every time I town read him immediately, he has been town. It has to do with how he sets himself up in the game. His opening made me wary. But I do agree with a lot of what he's been saying which is shit for me because logic > feelings from my experience in Mafia. Rels, I'm going to keep off of you for now, but that's on the basis you keep shitting townie rainbows.
ritoky & disfo - Bear with me, things are foggy because I read quickly to catch up and play D2. There was a situation where ritoky pushed disfo and disfo made a shit case. I think NM and/or Palmar was implicated somewhere which should be interesting.
On February 07 2016 03:02 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2016 02:55 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Rels - I have a soul read situation with him that he knows as well. Every time in the past that I've been wary of him he's turned out to be Mafia. Every time I town read him immediately, he has been town. It has to do with how he sets himself up in the game. His opening made me wary. But I do agree with a lot of what he's been saying which is shit for me because logic > feelings from my experience in Mafia. Rels, I'm going to keep off of you for now, but that's on the basis you keep shitting townie rainbows.
ritoky & disfo - Bear with me, things are foggy because I read quickly to catch up and play D2. There was a situation where ritoky pushed disfo and disfo made a shit case. I think NM and/or Palmar was implicated somewhere which should be interesting. Well here's the thing, for me for Rels - a key scum tell is him taking words/quotes/etc out of context. When he was pushing me day 1, he didn't see me logically and in most of my games I am able to get my arguments out in a logical manner. Here he didn't understand my early push on VA, quite frankly, no one did, and I saw his interactions with other people, and I didn't see any of those scum tells that makes me wary. Town Rels has a cleaner game IMO from what I see. as for the ritoky/disformation I cannot see how what you are saying makes EITHER of those two mafia. Disformation makes a shit case because (a) he cannot articulate himself well (b) he's confirmation biasing (which JAT basically confirmed near end of cycle) (c) he's mafia. Point is, disformation is not entirely scummy, and neither is ritoky for pushing in in that direction. And regardless of whom is implicated, me, Palmar, etc, I can't see how that winds back up at ritoky. Like this really isn't clear to me. At best you have pre-flip read here.
Can either of you - or anyone else if you wish - comment on these reads by MoosyDoosy here? Something feels off but I can't put my finger on it. His criteria for reading me is completely wrong, whether it's contrived is 50/50. I've only played with him twice.
The thing with my questioning on day 1 if you read through page 42 I think is he eventually bailed when I talked to him as to why he was scumreading ritoky. It felt weird and "it's Day 1" doesn't cut it. Just answer the question and then leave.
Rels especially his read on you, and especially how you scumread me for not being logical day 1 versus him townreading me day 1 for being convoluted. It's just weird.
Also I told him there's no way his read circles back to ritoky as mafia.
Also his following Day 2 was telling me to spit out fire - I'm assuming reads - but looking through his filter I think if anyone needs to spit out reads, I think it's him, quite frankly. He has marv/DF as town d1 and concerns with Rels.
That's it.
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EBWOP - the stuff with ritoky/disformation I think MD aimed more at ritoky who is flipped, and not disformation, though I still commented on the latter with him.
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I need to go afk and do some stuff, but I'll re-read boxerfred when I return.
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phoneposting
On February 08 2016 05:29 MoosyDoosy wrote:I like your spicy post NM.  ))
So what about it? What are your thoughts on Rels now? What is this heuristic/tell you are using on Rels for?
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On February 08 2016 05:30 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 05:03 marvellosity wrote:On February 08 2016 04:55 boxerfred wrote:
vayne, marv, palmar, x scum So you think I just randomly attacked 2 of my buddies in Va and palmar? Are you totally insane? Why wouldn't you do this as mafia? Puts great light on you.
I can think of a reason - if someone pushes too many of their scumbuddies and they are still alive, people will start to wonder why they are alive. Or what is the motivation for mafia to not kill someone who has killed 2+ scum on a 4-player scumteam.
I played with bf only once, in newbie 14....he's relatively new right?
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Marv why do you think Koshi is town?
What do you think about Rels' case?
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On February 08 2016 06:08 disformation wrote:
other random thought I had about the night kills:
aren't all 3 of them players that can lead/drive town into a decent direction?
Damdred yes, given my experience with him in Fullmetal and Dark Tournament.
JAT seemed like it here. Haven't played with him in any games I don't think.
I have also never played with ritoky when he was town. Outlaw and Fullmetal he was scum in both games. I obsed Nutcracker though and I think he was town that game? I can't remember his play that game offhand but I think he was an early nightkill.
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Well Firefly he had a really small filter and scum took advantage of that and shennanied onto him when he was afk. It was shit because I was on that wagon too and I was town.
I'm thinking to read his newbie 16 games and Haunted Mansion games to see if "suboptimal town play" is a decent parallel to this game. I had reason to townread him day 1. I realise he was modkilled and not lynched but his filter might give me a better idea of how he plays.
This game, just offhand, my concern is how he went back and forth between the wagons at the moment. If his town play is really bad like you say, then his latest spate of activity could purely be that, suboptimal. But when I'm back on a laptop I hopefully can get to that. It's hard to do this on a phone.
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On February 08 2016 07:09 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 06:45 NocturneMage wrote:phoneposting On February 08 2016 05:29 MoosyDoosy wrote:I like your spicy post NM. )) So what about it? What are your thoughts on Rels now? What is this heuristic/tell you are using on Rels for? mMmmm i currently have no thoughts on Rels. This day is enough about Palmar that Rels has dropped off and there’s not enough for me to read him. This waits until N3/D3 where things should pick up.mMmmm...I'm interested in what you're aiming for D2 in general. Who are you looking into? What exactly are you trying to question?
I don't find this believable or you haven't read the thread. Rels posted quite a bit earlier on Koshi and he pushed Koshi I believe. That's not the definition of falling off. He posted a massive case.
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EPT
