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On February 05 2016 23:15 boxerfred wrote:
I should elaborate. Just had a cigarette, calmed down a bit.
Basically, the way Chezinu and Moosy approach this game pisses me off. Given that nooniansong also seems to not give a fuck makes me re-think if I really want to put in the (little) time I already have in those games. I signed up for this game to have fun and participate a lot. Contrary to my latest games, I've fully read the thread despite rolling town which I normally do not like that much. I tend to not put any effort into the game if I am town, instead I go really low and don't watch the thread too closely. I do not have a problem with low activity players but I do have a problem with people that just screw up the thread. I can't believe that all four of Onegu, Chezinu, MoosyDoosy and nooniansong are mafia. However, Chezinu's and MD's posting styles make it really hard for me to stay calm and analyze shit. My case on ritoky might've not been the best one, but it was solid. The kind of one-liner conversation that we mainly had in the last 25 pages is something that I think does not bring town on a good way to find scum.
So, to stay constructive, I'd even refrain from my ritoky case now and leave it standing. People can bring that up later in the game. I strongly recommend to lynch between Chezinu, nooniansong, MoosyDoosy and Onegu, and I'd actually add Koshi to that list since I have the impression that he doesn't do much for town.
Among those four (five) players, nooniansong is the obvious lynch target. Bad defence, no contribution for town. Same goes for Moosy and Chez, those guys even derail the thread into plain bullshit. Onegue, while being sick (which I believe), is someone who I can hardly read anyways. MoosyDoosy has his dumbtell of 3 vs. 4 mafia going for him, can't see this guy actually pulling this play as scum. So there's Chezinu and nooniansong left. Well, nooniansong should IMHO, if he's town, indeed replace the fuck out of this game, while I don't feel that Chez will be usefull anytime soon.
Given that I agree on ritoky's/disformation's idea of one scum between NocturneMage and VayneAuthority, I feel like we should lynch one of them and shoot the other one at night. NM vs. Vayne didn't feel like town on town. Especially NM felt forced, his arguments weren't too good. However I liked his later explanations of them.
So. I'd say we lynch nooniansong. He's the "most likely to be mafia" player of all in my eyes. Chez is not worth a vig shot (yet), I'd rather use the vig shot to kill NM or Vayne. I'd prefer to lynch NM and shoot Vayne or the other way around.
Oh yeah, and I still haven't read 42+.
I don't understand. Why is chez not worth a vig shot exactly? Why should we lynch NM?
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On February 05 2016 23:16 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 23:15 boxerfred wrote:
Given that I agree on ritoky's/disformation's idea of one scum between NocturneMage and VayneAuthority, I feel like we should lynch one of them and shoot the other one at night. NM vs. Vayne didn't feel like town on town. Especially NM felt forced, his arguments weren't too good. However I liked his later explanations of them.
So. I'd say we lynch nooniansong. He's the "most likely to be mafia" player of all in my eyes. Chez is not worth a vig shot (yet), I'd rather use the vig shot to kill NM or Vayne. I'd prefer to lynch NM and shoot Vayne or the other way around.
If you think we very likely have a mafia between 2 people, why would you want to lynch outside that basically on policy?
I'm not lynching nooniansong on policy, I'm saying we lynch him due to his bad defences and his idgaf approach which makes me think he's the scum guy in the four guys I initially mentioned. Regarding NM and VA, I have no idea who of them is the scum one. If we lynch between them, we should shoot the other guy if the lynch flips town. I'm describing scenarios, I have not decided yet (or did you see a ##vote nooniansong somewhere?) stop nagging on me and instead get to the content on my psots, or just vote me and shut the fuck up
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On February 04 2016 13:07 NocturneMage wrote:
If you mean MY meta reads, I try and stick to people that I play a bit more often with. And even then I'm under the 10 or wahtever game threshold to really make that a great read, so I generally defer to other shit.
If you mean others' meta reads on people I don't really trust them, and I use interactions or other ways of evaluating people.
Base line is: after him posting this I don't think he would believe in a meta read as the sole base for a read. Especially when he refers to a lot of games he didn't played in as he did in his case on Palmar:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 05 2016 15:45 NocturneMage wrote:Why I have a bad feeling Palmar could be mafiaPalmar - read the following games for a compare/contrast: Tropical Storm, Down Under 3, Generic Boring. - In Generic Boring, he was dead wrong everywhere but he was assertive as all hell, was n1ed - Tropical Storm, looks like one right read, one wrong one (Damdred/rsoultin) but here, he goes pushing rsoultin on voting record, and is adamant he knew when to drop a townread on someone/knowing whom to sheep, not seeing that here. Important because a number of people in reading this thread are saying "game is hard" to some extent. They all can't be mafia. A cursory look through Palmar's filter - no strong town reads (i.e. I would sheep so and so) - Down Under 3 - Here, another example of one of his "absolutist" posts. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/490661-mini-mafia-down-under-3?page=52#1026Checking OP, all but one of these are wrong. Note: I purposely ignored PYP because a) it was a themed game b) multiple mafia teams The big contrast for me is tone. I'm seeing a lot of conditionals in this game (i.e. bf might be mafia), and a lot of absolutes in the above three games. Like he's so sure of himself even when he's wrong. The one thing I notice is his main involvement with JAT/marv/Koshi - two of which I'm townreading. Leads into the big contrast is his normal meta of lynching the inactives, the scummy players, etc. I'm looking for a push or even a trifle of anything against the sheer number of lower content players or even (almost universally?) scumread/discussed myself. Nothing. From Tropical Storm - and I know he applied this in PYP Show nested quote +On August 17 2015 01:18 Palmar wrote:
Some Pálmar advice:
Do NOT try to find someone playing an "amazing" scumgame. Lynch people who are inactive, don't contribute and in general do scummy shit. It's way too early for tinfoil hat theories. Finally I re-read his Outlaw Mafia filter for day 1 to refresh his day 1 scum play (go to his filter - read pages 1-3, day 1 ends at page 3) - and I'll be honest - his game so far here is a lot closer to his Day 1 play in Outlaw. I think people should read it - there's a lot of missing town tells that were present in the three games I discussed above.
He is mainly talking about Tropical Storm, Down Under 3, Generic Boring. Three games he didn't play in. Compare that to his opinion about meta reads. Makes doubly no sense.
In Outlaw Mafia town!NocturneMage mentions meta in a few places, but only refers to Dark Tournament where he had recently played together with a few ppl that were in Outlaw as well (Palmar/The Shining). More importantly: 90% of his arguments are based on logic and what actually happened in Outlaw.
What gives me a bit of a pause is that town!NocturneMage did use a similar meta approach to highlight that meta did not make LS town that game. But he kinda used meta to defuse a meta argument, which makes it more believable.
Link to his meta post on LS.
In NSM 18 scum!NocturneMage did post day 1 that he really does not like meta. Link.
And then proceeds to use a lot of meta based arguments later that game.
Link
Link
Link
Link
Granted in hindsight his post this game looks way more than his approach in Dark Tournament than in NSM 18. Still don't think he does honestly believe his case on Palmar though.
Why would scum!NM post a meta case after saying he didn't like meta? Well, why would town!NM post a meta read he can't possibly believe?
Well, the post sure looks like he did a lot of work digging up old stuff...
TBH after finding his meta thing on LS in Dark Tournament I am less sure about him being scum for this, but I am still not liking him this game a single bit. So yeah, still think he has a solid chance of being scum. Will reread his filter later, when I am back at home.
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On February 05 2016 23:21 Koshi wrote:-Sense it makes none- dafuq is "sense not makes no" are you a potato?
Well, he most certaintly isn't a jedi master. That grammar is appalling.
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On February 05 2016 23:21 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 23:15 boxerfred wrote:
I should elaborate. Just had a cigarette, calmed down a bit.
Basically, the way Chezinu and Moosy approach this game pisses me off. Given that nooniansong also seems to not give a fuck makes me re-think if I really want to put in the (little) time I already have in those games. I signed up for this game to have fun and participate a lot. Contrary to my latest games, I've fully read the thread despite rolling town which I normally do not like that much. I tend to not put any effort into the game if I am town, instead I go really low and don't watch the thread too closely. I do not have a problem with low activity players but I do have a problem with people that just screw up the thread. I can't believe that all four of Onegu, Chezinu, MoosyDoosy and nooniansong are mafia. However, Chezinu's and MD's posting styles make it really hard for me to stay calm and analyze shit. My case on ritoky might've not been the best one, but it was solid. The kind of one-liner conversation that we mainly had in the last 25 pages is something that I think does not bring town on a good way to find scum.
So, to stay constructive, I'd even refrain from my ritoky case now and leave it standing. People can bring that up later in the game. I strongly recommend to lynch between Chezinu, nooniansong, MoosyDoosy and Onegu, and I'd actually add Koshi to that list since I have the impression that he doesn't do much for town.
Among those four (five) players, nooniansong is the obvious lynch target. Bad defence, no contribution for town. Same goes for Moosy and Chez, those guys even derail the thread into plain bullshit. Onegue, while being sick (which I believe), is someone who I can hardly read anyways. MoosyDoosy has his dumbtell of 3 vs. 4 mafia going for him, can't see this guy actually pulling this play as scum. So there's Chezinu and nooniansong left. Well, nooniansong should IMHO, if he's town, indeed replace the fuck out of this game, while I don't feel that Chez will be usefull anytime soon.
Given that I agree on ritoky's/disformation's idea of one scum between NocturneMage and VayneAuthority, I feel like we should lynch one of them and shoot the other one at night. NM vs. Vayne didn't feel like town on town. Especially NM felt forced, his arguments weren't too good. However I liked his later explanations of them.
So. I'd say we lynch nooniansong. He's the "most likely to be mafia" player of all in my eyes. Chez is not worth a vig shot (yet), I'd rather use the vig shot to kill NM or Vayne. I'd prefer to lynch NM and shoot Vayne or the other way around.
Oh yeah, and I still haven't read 42+. I don't understand. Why is chez not worth a vig shot exactly? Why should we lynch NM?
Gut. If we decide between NM/VA, i'd lynch NM because I feel if there is indeed a scum between those two, it's more likely to be NM than VA. Chez is not worth a vig shot because while he's being bad, he can still be ignored and lynched/shot later.
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On February 05 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 23:16 marvellosity wrote:On February 05 2016 23:15 boxerfred wrote:
Given that I agree on ritoky's/disformation's idea of one scum between NocturneMage and VayneAuthority, I feel like we should lynch one of them and shoot the other one at night. NM vs. Vayne didn't feel like town on town. Especially NM felt forced, his arguments weren't too good. However I liked his later explanations of them.
So. I'd say we lynch nooniansong. He's the "most likely to be mafia" player of all in my eyes. Chez is not worth a vig shot (yet), I'd rather use the vig shot to kill NM or Vayne. I'd prefer to lynch NM and shoot Vayne or the other way around.
If you think we very likely have a mafia between 2 people, why would you want to lynch outside that basically on policy? I'm not lynching nooniansong on policy, I'm saying we lynch him due to his bad defences and his idgaf approach which makes me think he's the scum guy in the four guys I initially mentioned. Regarding NM and VA, I have no idea who of them is the scum one. If we lynch between them, we should shoot the other guy if the lynch flips town. I'm describing scenarios, I have not decided yet (or did you see a ##vote nooniansong somewhere?) stop nagging on me and instead get to the content on my psots, or just vote me and shut the fuck up
Could you please explain in your own words why you think there is a mafia between NM and VA?
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On February 05 2016 23:24 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:On February 05 2016 23:16 marvellosity wrote:On February 05 2016 23:15 boxerfred wrote:
Given that I agree on ritoky's/disformation's idea of one scum between NocturneMage and VayneAuthority, I feel like we should lynch one of them and shoot the other one at night. NM vs. Vayne didn't feel like town on town. Especially NM felt forced, his arguments weren't too good. However I liked his later explanations of them.
So. I'd say we lynch nooniansong. He's the "most likely to be mafia" player of all in my eyes. Chez is not worth a vig shot (yet), I'd rather use the vig shot to kill NM or Vayne. I'd prefer to lynch NM and shoot Vayne or the other way around.
If you think we very likely have a mafia between 2 people, why would you want to lynch outside that basically on policy? I'm not lynching nooniansong on policy, I'm saying we lynch him due to his bad defences and his idgaf approach which makes me think he's the scum guy in the four guys I initially mentioned. Regarding NM and VA, I have no idea who of them is the scum one. If we lynch between them, we should shoot the other guy if the lynch flips town. I'm describing scenarios, I have not decided yet (or did you see a ##vote nooniansong somewhere?) stop nagging on me and instead get to the content on my psots, or just vote me and shut the fuck up Could you please explain in your own words why you think there is a mafia between NM and VA?
Basically, gut. And the fact that VA disappeared while NM had to defend himself heavily. Makes me think that one of them enjoys the other one being attacked.
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@boxer, yeah my defense was pretty scummy. I'm definitely in the running for number 1 plynch. I think it's between me, moosey, and onegu.
Onegu is sick so that's a decent excuse.
Moosey did some weird stuff involving town reads. That's something at least.
I scumread zyrre, but so did everyone else.
So yeah probably Onegu is the best plynch despite his believable excuse.
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Yeah, something about the whole VA vs NM vs Rels thing is odd. (yeah, adding Rels).
Comments on my meta thing on NM? Not 100% sure if I just want my shitty "trap" to have worked, but I can't seriously wrap my head around why town!NM would try to make a meta based case and then not really go anywhere with it.
Like sure he has a list of ppl he would lynch, but he isn't really pushing any of them.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On February 05 2016 23:20 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 20:52 marvellosity wrote:On February 05 2016 20:47 justanothertownie wrote:
There are very few townreads I am married to if any. People be scummy or not playing. well, it's just like. at the start i liked bf's zeal in going after ritoky. i can't tell if the continuing certainty is quite warranted, and if it's not warranted, i'm not sure that's scummy, but it's a little something. kinda raised my eyebrow at him bringing up him being shot and ritoky looking bad. that's kinda a level or two too much for what's going on between them. again, could be pretty zealous town or mafia making too much out of that whole read also i feel his treatment of disinformation is a little weird. like he's SO CERTAIN THAT he's town, SO EARLY AND CONSISTENTLY. saying he has "huge amounts of town cred" and also a post where he says he's "surprised disfo isn't here". Why? Why is he surprised? Should he be there at all times? Does it matter if he's not there if boxerfred is heavily townreading him?It's just kinda odd tbh. Overall, disformation's posting style feels town to me. The mod thingy just made that stronger. I was surpirsed disformation wasn't in the thread because it was afternoon in germany, same timezones and shit, and I expected him to be in the thread. And, as you can see if you read the following posts, he indeed was in the thread. And yes it does matter because disformation can basically lean back on my hard townread, rub his hands and say "look at this bf fool, he's townreading me, lol I don't even need to post shit". I expected him to instantly post after this if he really was town. which he did.
so because someone is awake they should be in the thread at the same time as you? (???)
how can disinformation lean back on one (not very influential - and i genuinely don't mean this rudely) townread and not post? How does that make sense? There's 17 players. Nor had he looked like he would not be posting at any stage
if someone is a hard townread for me, i don't worry because they're not in the thread at some instant.
Further, "I expected him to instantly post after this if he really was town. which he did." - you'd expect him to read it and not respond as mafia? wut?
so weird to me. all of it.
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hmmm... maybe BF was trying to buddy up to me? Or pocket? Or however these things work?
No clue why anyone would give me town credits for. How do you spend these things?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On February 05 2016 23:46 disformation wrote:
hmmm... maybe BF was trying to buddy up to me? Or pocket? Or however these things work?
No clue why anyone would give me town credits for. How do you spend these things?
Mos Eisley canteen
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On February 05 2016 23:48 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 23:46 disformation wrote:
hmmm... maybe BF was trying to buddy up to me? Or pocket? Or however these things work?
No clue why anyone would give me town credits for. How do you spend these things? Mos Eisley canteen
Fair enough.
+ Show Spoiler +
Seeing that you are voting palmar I gather that you like NM and agree with the meta thing on palmar?
Can you explain these things to me? Does my point on NM probably not believing this meta thing on palmar change anything for you or do you think I am wrong?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On February 05 2016 23:57 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 23:48 marvellosity wrote:On February 05 2016 23:46 disformation wrote:
hmmm... maybe BF was trying to buddy up to me? Or pocket? Or however these things work?
No clue why anyone would give me town credits for. How do you spend these things? Mos Eisley canteen Fair enough. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiSS5xn_0fc Seeing that you are voting palmar I gather that you like NM and agree with the meta thing on palmar? Can you explain these things to me? Does my point on NM probably not believing this meta thing on palmar change anything for you or do you think I am wrong?
I don't actually think much of NM either way. I did write my own explanation post my vote if you want to check my filter.
I mostly read your explanation on the meta, except I didn't get the feeling it was very strong because there was some "uh, well actually he did use some meta here as town actually...". If you feel your point is stronger than that, feel free to punch me with a couple of sentences why you feel what you're saying is right. I'll pay attention
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So, I've read the thread and its all over the place voting wise and that's sorta meh at this junction so we need to get it down to a couple targets and ho from there.
If be ok sort of going for palmar, onegu, zyree and chez is an outliner.
I don't think nm/va/kush are worth a lynch today or moosey as I think moose is town.
NM post on palmar isn't bad at all though hard to meta but Marv says lynch palmar. So maybe I should put my eggs with Marv and tide and die
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On February 05 2016 23:35 nooniansoong wrote:
@boxer, yeah my defense was pretty scummy. I'm definitely in the running for number 1 plynch. I think it's between me, moosey, and onegu.
Onegu is sick so that's a decent excuse.
Moosey did some weird stuff involving town reads. That's something at least.
I scumread zyrre, but so did everyone else.
So yeah probably Onegu is the best plynch despite his believable excuse.
Kill with all the fires in the world.
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On February 06 2016 00:01 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 23:57 disformation wrote:On February 05 2016 23:48 marvellosity wrote:On February 05 2016 23:46 disformation wrote:
hmmm... maybe BF was trying to buddy up to me? Or pocket? Or however these things work?
No clue why anyone would give me town credits for. How do you spend these things? Mos Eisley canteen Fair enough. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiSS5xn_0fc Seeing that you are voting palmar I gather that you like NM and agree with the meta thing on palmar? Can you explain these things to me? Does my point on NM probably not believing this meta thing on palmar change anything for you or do you think I am wrong? I don't actually think much of NM either way. I did write my own explanation post my vote if you want to check my filter. I mostly read your explanation on the meta, except I didn't get the feeling it was very strong because there was some "uh, well actually he did use some meta here as town actually...". If you feel your point is stronger than that, feel free to punch me with a couple of sentences why you feel what you're saying is right. I'll pay attention
Hm fair enough. Finding that LS read did take a lot of fire and conviction out of my argument against NM. Still want him explain it though.
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Where is the case on palmar?
I read his filter and he looks town to me. He made a good point about boxer.
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People got to understand that Kush has been playing serious as town, and has been enjoying doing so. This game he is reading the game, following it pretty closely, but he isn't doing his thing, which is make small observations on who is town/mafia. Instead of quoting posts and telling how mafia he is, he can just as easily quote people and tell them how mafia they are.
Last game he was mafia and tried to copy this style but failed and we lynched him. Endgame he said that he hated playing scum and that we should never lynch him if he ever tries in a game. WHICH INDICATES HE WANTS TO TRY IN FUTURE TOWN GAMES AND NOT TRY IN SCUMGAMES.
This game he is not trying.
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On February 06 2016 00:16 nooniansoong wrote:
Where is the case on palmar?
I read his filter and he looks town to me. He made a good point about boxer.
2 pages before that quote from Rels you took about lynchbait.
This is why Kush didn't want to answer my fucking question about what he read btw.
He knows I can trap him.
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EPT
