EPTOn July 28 2015 23:25 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Palmar, elaborate a bit more on your rso read for me pls.
Palmar, elaborate a bit more on your rso read for me pls.
...
There is nothing to elaborate on.
Are you not reading thread?
Mini Mafia Down Under 3 - Page 52
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
... There is nothing to elaborate on. Are you not reading thread? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Palmar's shitty reads based on literally nothing! Shitty read #1: Scott is town On July 28 2015 09:00 Palmar wrote: ##vote Glowingbear Because my red check said so. On July 28 2015 09:01 scott31337 wrote: Fucking Mafiabear I knew it The important part here is the timing. Remember that if scott is mafia he sees my post and immediately thinks "wait a minute, that's not right" because he knows it's not (unless he's a scumbuddy with GB but that's a stretch...). I genuinely believe that his response was an impulsive, genuine one, not a calculated "It's best for me to go along with this". I believe if he was mafia, even if he was going to agree with it, it would have taken a longer time to write the response. Something like this one actually. Notice the random smiley and the strangely spelled "Nice" (yes I know it's a common thing...). This is not a genuine reaction like scott's was. Scott was, at that moment, very happy with what just happened and he simply blurted out the first thing he thought. I'm not saying OWS is mafia just because of this, but his response in no way gives me the any indication he's town because it's constructed. It might be town constructed, but it's not impulsive and that is all that matters. Scott's chance of being mafia is like 1%. Shitty read #2: Snickers is town On July 27 2015 05:29 FirmTofu wrote: Also, I'm The Anangu (Town Vanilla), if anyone cares. On July 27 2015 05:30 Snickers wrote: so firm is probably getting modkilled great. Another example of an instant, impulsive reaction. If snickers is mafia with FT then he knows it's a fake claim and doesn't even consider the possibility that it might be a modkillable offense. The simple fact that his mind came up with the idea, within 1 minute of FT's post, that posting the role like that would lead to FT being modkilled is extremely important. This means snickers BELIEVED that FT had posted the real role PM, and I highly doubt this was a planned play by them two. This simply means that Snickers thought FT had posted the vanilla town role pm, and thus he clearly was not aware FT was mafia at this time. This means snickers can never be mafia this game. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
On July 28 2015 23:29 Palmar wrote: ... There is nothing to elaborate on. Are you not reading thread? I read it. I just didn't particularly agree with it at the time and thought I was missing something before GB talked about it. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Clarity and Onegu Unfortunately we have two people not participating in the game. Both of those players are prime vigilante targets. But the most important part is that there is no reason to actively really believe that either of them is mafia. We have no flipped blue roles so there's no real reason to doubt that Onegu is named townie, and while I wanted to lynch clarity yesterday for not contributing, his post tonight and the fact that HTS is looking for a replacement for this game probably means he's telling the truth that he can't play. It's a bit shitty I guess to talk about it, but it's the next thread to this one... If time constraints stop him from contributing, that fully explains my main gripe with him, which was that clarity is a good player who is not trying to solve the game. Solving the game is much harder when you don't have time to solve the game. So yeah, unless someone can bring up a real reason why one of the two is mafia, we're basically taking the easy way out by lynching them. If they happen to be town it'll be an idle lynch on a lurker, and I generally don't like those after day 1. Like I'm not kidding about clarity, the reason I wanted to lynch him was I had just played with him in voice mafia where he was insightful, talkative and very committed to winning as a townie, and then there's literally nothing this game. But this is 100% explained by simply being absent this game. It sucks, and if he's mafia I'm basically giving him a lurker pass for nothing, but I don't want to lynch him today. Check/Shoot. Use the lynch on someone who might at least respond. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
I'll be at work and phoneposting most of today. Palmar's recent posting raises the bar for him somewhat, so I'll be taking a second look at that rso case. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
rsoultin GlowingBear KelsierSC boxerfred Hopeless1der ObiWanShinobi There are likely 2 mafia in this group. Cliff notes on each one PRIOR TO FILTERS/RE-READING (so this is all subject to change). Think of this as mental notes I have about each player. rsoultin Scum: I still don't believe a townie reacts by instantly thinking miller. rayn also wanted to lynch her and rayn is sometimes right. Town: She had actually talked about the GB is town because of her "shitty read", before I claimed the check. This slightly weakens my reaction accusation and also shows she is at least trying to have reads. GlowingBear Scum: voted incorrectly yesterday, is wrong on everything today and wants to kill me. Town: voted incorrectly yesterday, is wrong on everything today and wants to kill me. See... he's going after me which might be risky if he's mafia (although this logic failed me yesterday). Also he's being blatantly wrong on everything it feels, and is being a stubborn, cocky asshole about it, which is somewhat a townie attitude. meh... I probably don't really want to lynch him. KelsierSC Feels very background-y. I don't feel like he has done much at all after early day 1. The tone thing that I and GB both pointed out yesterday still bothers me. Still there are also some reasons I think he might be town. Undecided boxerfred I've said multiple times in mafia that the players I ignore tend to be mafia. If this is true, boxerfred is always mafia. I can hardly remember anything he has posted this game, which means it's been mostly boring and/or useless. This is gonna be a really good filter for me to read OWS I've also ignored him a bit, and he's done literally nothing. I seem to recall having a weak toneread for thinking he's town early on day 1, although I can't remember what it is, and since then I feel like he has had very little strong opinions and just kind of asks idle questions and goes wherever the wind blows. Hopeless1der Almost in the lurker category. I can't even remember why I decided to back off him yesterday, but I felt like it was a good idea at the time. Until I read him that remains the position I hold. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
If you're town this game fuck you | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
meeehhhhhhh~~~~~~~~ | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
I re-read rsoultin's stuff on Clarity and it feels reasonable and townie to me. Palmar on the other hand makes a meh defense of clarity, mainly "look he got irl stuff so I believe it so don't lynch". After the lurker experience of Gaiden I'm actually fond of the idea of policy lynching afk's, namely Clarity and Onegu (although I still think the claim is genuine). On July 28 2015 09:17 rsoultin wrote: 2/80 ... meh -_- i really don't think he's scum, is the problem. like, i still think this is unlikely to come from a scummate as soon as ft enters the game? ^ GB should have known FT was playing if they were scum together? i kinda think maybe he's a miller? cause i kinda think palmar doesn't fake-claim cop here? This is the post Palmar scumread rsoul for after his fake cop claim. Tbh, I had the same thought, so go ahead and read me scum if you want to. My second thought was "Hm, unlikely given that there's a framer in already" but hey, who knows. I think this post is NAI. I can see the possibility of town palmar vs. town rsoultin here. Thought of that already when I said that they are probably not the same alignment, however I think that was a false prerequisite. I have no indicators that they have opposite alignments. So what I would suggest is that we lynch into Clarity instead of choosing between those wagons. The fact that both wagons started rolling rather quickly seems to me as if scum would be fine with lynching any of those two. Also I want to point out that my scum read on GB still stands. I think he soft defended so often, directly and indirectly, that he's still my top scum read. So if anyone wants to get aboard a GB wagon, just let me know. ##unvote ##vote Clarity_nl | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On July 29 2015 00:04 Palmar wrote: Althought the hate does sound kinda townie meeehhhhhhh~~~~~~~~ "RSOUL IS FUCKING SCUM LOOK AT THIS" into "meehhhhhhhhhh~~~~~~~ probably town" This is what I really don't like. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
EBWOP #2: Either way, with lynching between rsoul and Palmar we lynch between the most active players and I don't like that idea D2. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On July 28 2015 23:00 Palmar wrote: At the time I was kinda suspicious of scott, but yeah I didn't really have a strong alternative. I have an inherent bias (as very clearly evidenced here) to assume that mafia people generally try not to pick a fight with me on day 1. When presented with FT's attacks on me I had two options: 1) He's mafia, thinks he can get away with calling me scum for bs reasons. 2) He's just a dumbass townie I simply overthought the problem. I was certain no one would be dumb enough to actually go after me like that on day 1, so I kinda wifom'd myself into thinking he had to be town because it'd be too risky to do exactly what I did. I probably need to drop this line of thought from my play in the future and assume mafia are just as likely to go after me as any other player, especially now that I play more casually than I did in the past. Here's a quote from myself showing a similar line of thought: Thankfully rayn was here, completely disconnected from the situation (FT wasn't attacking him) and thus had a more objective viewpoint and lead town to a good lynch. I never voted for him or pushed for his lynch. He was clearly a secondary candidate to Clarity. If you go back and check my filter I mention probably several times that there exist valid tone reasons to doubt KelsierSC being town. I never had a strong town read on him, I simply had a "would not lynch" read. These aren't really the same thing, especially on day 1. He was attempting to contribute and getting into arguments, even if the main point of your case, and my worries back on day 1, the fact he was so annoyed, were still troubling. Your case kinda summarized all the reasons to think he's mafia and thinking you were town at the time I kind of just rolled with it. Also, part of early thinking he was town was if I recall based on interactions with scott, who gradually started to look more town throughout the day. On July 28 2015 14:03 GlowingBear wrote: 3) Wanting to lynch Clarity for he was the best lynch candidate. Completely forgetting him today just to go against Clarity's main pusher rsoultin. I haven't forgotten about clarity. I just think he's being genuine here: On July 27 2015 22:57 Clarity_nl wrote: Welp irl is shit and everything is shit. If there's a vigi they should shoot me as it doesn't look like I'll get the chance to play properly. I gtg I don't think he's the kind of player that pulls this as an excuse to lurk as mafia. I might be wrong and we shouldn't discount the possibility, but I don't really want to lynch him today. This is more of a meta/personality assumption and I would absolutely not be opposed to him being checked/shot because he's not contributing anything to the thread. Maybe I'm overthinking things again? Who knows? On July 28 2015 14:03 GlowingBear wrote: 4) Basing his read on rsoultin out of bad reaction testing that resulted in WIFOM conclusion. Also, basing his read on rsoultin out of Rayn's scumread on her. It's opportunistic because (i)Rayn also scum read Palmar and he doesn't take it in consideration. He does not consider that Rayn was wrong on him (if he was town) and could be wrong on rsoultin, also. And (ii) it's a very easy reason to get behind a lynch, to hide himself behind a dead confirmed townie's read. Too comfortable for mafia rayn is a good player who is, just like everyone else, sometimes wrong and sometimes right. He was right on FT He's wrong on me He might be right on rsoultin? Why would I take into any consideration the fact he was wrong on me? That has literally nothing to do with whether or not he's right on rsoultin. And I'm not really hiding behind it, I'm just pointing out he wanted to kill her. It's not the main reason I want to lynch her. I want to lynch her because I do not believe a townie would act the way she did. On July 28 2015 14:03 GlowingBear wrote: 5) Palmar has no fucking original scumread. All he does is rehashing what other people say That's the best way to play mafia. Take the credit for other people's ideas. Palmar: On July 26 2015 03:27 Palmar wrote: No, he's probably not. Sure I could be wrong, but Kelsier is not going to be lynched today. re:point1) This is a complementary argument. YES, you could have done this as town. It's a matter of believing if you did it or not. I mean, I think there is a difference between town and mafia defense. You simply said he might be or not be mafia but did not have any other strong read. I also said something in that way, but my answer was "we have better lynches", and I two pretty strong scumreads at that moment and pushed them. It's completely different. Considering all those other points can be brought from you, I tend to interpret that this is coming more from mafia than from town. Sorry, I UNDERSTAND you, but I don't TRUST you. re:point2) You only commented on Kelsier when I inquired you about him on early game. You only comment on him again to say my case is good and BOOM he is up to be lynched. It's all in your filter. How can he be a clearly second candidate when you basically said he wasn't going to be lynched that day? You just thought he would be AFTER I brought the case, Palmar, and the case had basically no new points that you didn't attack before. It can be seen in your filter two stances: the one you had before my case and the one you had after my case. You had no original scumreads yesterday. You led noone yesterday. You were just letting it happen. re:point3) So, clarity was the best lynch yesterday. Then he isn't anymore because he made a post at night saying he should be vigi. Palmar, man, you know that NO TOWNIE will say that at night. This is actually coming more from a mafia that is trying to say "lol look people, I'm not trying to survive, it's a waste" than an actual townie. I would expect a townie saying "guys don't shoot me, I'm town, I'm just too overwhelmed by real life, I've already asked for a replacement". In fact, your awareness that HTS is searching for a replacement is fairly suspicious. Yes, I know, anyone could reach this conclusion by looking at the player replacement, but it reeks TMI. In Himalaya's, Holyflare did the same thing, telling us bugs was going to get replaced. In other words, Clarity's quote at night, if not scummy, is not alignment indicative. You can't draw the fast conclusion that he is town just because of that, Palmar. re:point4) That's the problem. You say that rayn had a scumread on rsoultin to "fortify" your argument. If you think his ARGUMENT is valid, then it's okay. But you don't even bring his argument against her. You just keep repeating that rayn had a scum read on her. You either say that rayn has a good argument on her and follow it, or you say rayn is a good town player and you follow him. In the first perspective, I think it's okay that you follow him and do not consider his read on you. In the second, however, you're considering rayn's ability to read people, and not the read per se. So, if he has a bad read on you, he could have a bad read on her. You can't say you trust TOWN RAYN instead of TOWN RAYN'S ARGUMENT and not consider he was wrong on you. re:point5) you still have no original or strong scumread. Your strongest scumread today is rsoultin, based on WIFOM, only. Bah. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On July 29 2015 01:38 boxerfred wrote: Palmar's currently putting a lot of effort in. But those posts really seem like "you know, on the one hand, can be this way, on the other hand, can be that way." That feels really wishy washy, opposing the "you're scum as fuck" push on rsoultin. I re-read rsoultin's stuff on Clarity and it feels reasonable and townie to me. Palmar on the other hand makes a meh defense of clarity, mainly "look he got irl stuff so I believe it so don't lynch". After the lurker experience of Gaiden I'm actually fond of the idea of policy lynching afk's, namely Clarity and Onegu (although I still think the claim is genuine). This is the post Palmar scumread rsoul for after his fake cop claim. Tbh, I had the same thought, so go ahead and read me scum if you want to. My second thought was "Hm, unlikely given that there's a framer in already" but hey, who knows. I think this post is NAI. I can see the possibility of town palmar vs. town rsoultin here. Thought of that already when I said that they are probably not the same alignment, however I think that was a false prerequisite. I have no indicators that they have opposite alignments. So what I would suggest is that we lynch into Clarity instead of choosing between those wagons. The fact that both wagons started rolling rather quickly seems to me as if scum would be fine with lynching any of those two. Also I want to point out that my scum read on GB still stands. I think he soft defended so often, directly and indirectly, that he's still my top scum read. So if anyone wants to get aboard a GB wagon, just let me know. ##unvote ##vote Clarity_nl I'm starting to not believe you're town. You agree that palmar looks scummy, you agree that clarity is a good lynch, and you still scumread me? You think I'm double bussing? You've made a huge case on me but never fully went against me. Why? | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On July 29 2015 01:59 GlowingBear wrote: I'm starting to not believe you're town. You agree that palmar looks scummy, you agree that clarity is a good lynch, and you still scumread me? You think I'm double bussing? You've made a huge case on me but never fully went against me. Why? Dude, my vote was on you until I switched to clarity. I said in the post you quoted that you're still my top scum read. However I can't get a wagon going on you, so I switch. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
12/80 | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On July 29 2015 02:08 boxerfred wrote: Dude, my vote was on you until I switched to clarity. I said in the post you quoted that you're still my top scum read. However I can't get a wagon going on you, so I switch. Yeah, but you're voting your top scumread's top scumreads. Do you think I'm mafia with Palmar and Clarity? Do you think Palmar is mafia? What do you think of the points I've brought on him? | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
Hm, I read your post on Palmar with a "oh GB's a scumread of me, don't care too much" mindset. Hm. After rereading, I think those are strong points. However, my case on you is strong, too. Okay. So for today and for me, it's clarity or Palmar lynch, nothing else. If Palmar flips town though, I'd go after GB in an instant. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
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