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On December 08 2015 06:35 NocturneMage wrote:James - LS read evolvement Part 1 Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:01 Fidei86 wrote:
So that people know, the people in the game I know best are Half the Sky and Rels. I've been town with both, supervised both when I GMed and was Mafia with Rels once. I also have played with a lot of the rest of you before, including Moosy, Lightning Strike, Onegu and Damdred. I don't know DYH, trfel, dis, Kush or Palmar very well. first post - important for context. Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 18:42 Fidei86 wrote:
Lightning Strike's entrance seems way over the top to me, especially for him. Usually he comes in and posts some relatively anodyne 1-liners, whereas here he came in with a big long paragraph attacking someone (Trfel I think) for calling him out earlier. In my experience, town LS is much more relaxed and jokey, until he starts getting attacked seriously (which I don't think had happened by that point). Then again, LS is primo lynch-bait D1, so I'll try and avoid getting too tunnelled for now. tone read indicates mafia. is hesistant because he might be misread a bit. Below is part of the list post - edited for brevity Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:08 Fidei86 wrote:
Mafia
LS - his entry list was all nulls ("I need more time on Moosy" -- no shit!) and basic basic points that display no particular thought. #431 says the game is hard but hasn't really given a read on anyone? O
Useless
Kush - he is going to have to do a lot to get back from "not changing my Rels vote even though he might be town because changing votes is hard"
Moosy - only sensible post is pushing Shining on his read of me. When he'd explained it like 8 times and I'd only made one post.
DYH - Lots of town-reads and afk promises. Hardly encouraging. Was not really a fan of his Trfel read.
Onegu. It's O-word dude. Hands up if you're surprised. A side note and a few critical questions to ask about James. I think this is what Rels was talking about. No problem with opting to policy lynch, although from my context (see first post where Fidei says he has played with Moosy) and experience (in my last newbie Moosy martyred and almost got lynched as vigilante) and when I obsed Newbie 12, (town) HTS pushed him in that game and he almost got himself lynched but then she turned around, caught a scumslip and ultimately saved Moosy, who was town. In Newbie 13, where I was mafia, he set himself up poorly day 1, and then he got modkilled. The potential issue I have here is whether we should hold an expectation that James should have KNOWN that Moosy plays like this. You can argue him wanting to lynch Moosy is a copout based on his own admitted experience with Moosy and whether he should have known how Moosy plays. From my own memory, I think James was in Newbie 12, I obsed it. I know we had 14 together, but Moosy was mafia, and swindled us all. I don't think James was in 13, where Moosy was town and I was mafia, and I don't think he was in 17. IDK. Potential scum motivation if and only if the expectation holds that he should have known Moosy better. Disclaimer: I have not researched appropriate evidence in the database. Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 07:17 Fidei86 wrote:
Like I'd vote LS over most of the rest of the players - but Moosy is a disgrace this game, and if he doesn't take this game seriously we shouldn't take him seriously. So so far, a clear scum push on LS, with the Moosy read v expectation caveat. That was through end of cycle 1.
Yes I did play 12. In that game, Moosy was 'useless' through D1, but he gave some hints that he was attempting some sort of Chezinu-type play. You're completely right - HTS caught one of the scum, and from that we cleaned up the remainder pretty easily.
Yes, in 14 he did end-game me. He played very well.
But looking through his game here, I don't think me makes a single sensible point throughout his entire filter. In my view, he was trying to protect his 'meta' - ie to play so indifferently that he couldn't start to develop a consistent meta. That, or he was trying a Chez type thing again. *shrug*. I read him as I saw him in this game.
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On December 08 2015 07:18 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 07:17 disformation wrote:On December 08 2015 07:13 LightningStrike wrote:On December 08 2015 07:05 disformation wrote:On December 08 2015 06:59 LightningStrike wrote:I do have a ton of games under my belt but I was mainly given you my more recent games plus all my scum games  Yes. Yes. Good. Good. But why is your filter so long without giving me a clue where your current reads/thoughts are at? Ugh they are towards the end of the filter except I starting to rethink about my scum read on DYH. Like his responses to questioning I was trying to see where he's at outside of HTS although it wasn't really well explained but it's better than nothing I guess. Moved DYH to null. Ah, did miss you restating them by quoting in #1362... tough that was still on page 7/9, which is not exactly towards the end of your filter. =p So with DYH at null you currently don't have a scum read? But two null reads in Fidei86 and DYH? Pretty much. granted I was doing stuff today so :\
uh... "okay"... updates would be kinda swell though...
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I just had a look through LS's filter in this game (took me about 5 mins ... there is so little content in there) and his filter in Himalayas, where he was town.
I am disappointed to conclude that LS's style here is not that dissimilar from his Himalayas game. There he posted lots of pointless one line posts, unfollowed-up questions and weak meta reads.
BUT
I don't think we can, in good faith, not lynch LightningStrike today. I challenge anyone to go through his filter and find one nuanced or interesting though. One. His reads, as far as I can tell, are so bland that they are all almost exactly the same (ie "he sounds towny" or "he sounds like he did when he was town last game"). He is literally a coin-flip. He has done nothing to suggest he is town or to help town find mafia. He was somewhat unsure on HTS, but it's difficult to distinguish from general apathy (and he ended up voting for her anyway).
Ugh. Does anyone think that there is any realistic choice of LS being NKd? There isn't, as far as I can see. And if we don't lynch him, he WILL be in lylo and, if he *is* town, we're screwed. If I'm in LYLO with him and any of you, that other person just has to point out LS's total lack of read progression, his constant questions that lead nowhere, his repeated questions as to who is about, and I would lynch him.
Yes, it's partially a policy lynch. But his play is just cruising through the game without ever having to lie or really get pressured at all. And that's very scummy. It's objectively scummy. If we give him a pass because everyone's like "oh, he's always bad" then more fool us if he gets through here.
Also I'm not sure enough on any of my other reads to push them now. :-/
THAT SAID
I will now try and wade through disfo's filter.
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is tl constantly crashing for anyone else? ugh
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I'm not convinced by his read progression towards EOD1. He is on kushmasta, then comes off him "because he starts to do stuff". He then sheeps Damdred onto LS, without giving much reasoning and crucially while asking Damdred pointed questions about his own progression.
BUT I think it makes more sense for a scum!disfo to stick on kushmasta. The dude was super easy lynchbait, and he couldn't have been criticised for sticking on him.
He says twice in D1 that the game is hard (one is at #731). I find this ... eh. Slightly scum indicative, but only from a sophisticated player (ie trying to make the game feel harder for townies, to try and de-motivate them). For a newer player, it's probably NAI.
His post at #802 is a really good catch - DYH's town read on disfo came out of nowhere.
At #932 he pings out Dani, based on his experience with her before. It wasn't a super original point at the time, but I give him townie points for it.
I read the rest of it, and nothing really jumped out. He has hedged all of his reads on me and Trfel, and a lot of his filter is more of a dialogue with the game than lots of cases and reads. When I posted earlier that I thought he might be scum, it was because it seemed a little bit like he was skating through and appearing busy, without actually being busy. But having reviewed the filter at length, I see enough townie things that I don't think I can scum read him for now.
DYH then bed.
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(the above post is on disfo)
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DoYouHas
#185 - saying he has the "mind meld" with Damdred "for now". This qualifier is strange to me. It's almost like a town read that is given, then instantly withdrawn.
#255 He talks alot about Palmar's push on TS. But his TS read here is the same as mine (well, in a way. I said that it was townie because he tried to stop it, whereas DYH focusses on him being provoked to come back in).
#462 He read four filters, and came away with nothing at all? I mean, he could have at least noted that LS's filter was rubbish?
At the D1 lynch, he said that he sheeped his town reads because he had dropped Trfel. His post at #642 is actually pretty towny. He exhonerates Trfel after wondering why scum!Trfel would vote for him.
I find that his admitting that he was just sheeping his town reads to be pretty towny. HOWEVER, I note that his town read of disfo DOES seem to come out of nowhere. Like, literally, it just appears with no explanation, and is used to justify a vote.
His correct read on HTS gives him town points (#885 and #1023). Plainly the bussing is possible. I accept that. But this is very early on in the day, with no super-obvious benefit. Yes, NM had jumped in saying he was sure HTS was scum. But unless DYH knew the NM/HTS relationship the way that others of us did, I don't think he would have necessarily assumed that we were all going to follow NM.
ALthough, that said, if HTS engineered a bus in anticipation of leaving the game, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that this was part of it. Occams razor suggests not though.
#1402 posts a recap of Damdred's reads (hardly *that* helpful).
#1570 His read here is actually pretty insightful. It relies upon POE a little bit, but also looking at her read of disfo is pretty smart.
CONCLUSION
Yes, his filter is two pages. Obviously that's sub-optimal. But I don't see any particular reason to scum-read DYH, and I actually see a fair number of reasons to town read him. So I will.
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Right. Quick game of dota then bed. Will catch up in the am.
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On December 08 2015 08:14 Fidei86 wrote:
I'm not convinced by his read progression towards EOD1. He is on kushmasta, then comes off him "because he starts to do stuff". He then sheeps Damdred onto LS, without giving much reasoning and crucially while asking Damdred pointed questions about his own progression.
Ah, I can try to explain my thought process on that.
From the top of my hat it went like this:
1. Damdred wants to vote LS (without explanation)
2. I look at LS filter and behold it is bad.
3. Damdred was a town-lean at this point, so while I agree on the filter I want to see where damdred is at, so I can sheep him with confidence.
4. I like damdreds answers upgrade him to a town read (I think I also posted this upgrade) and sheep him onto LS
On December 08 2015 08:36 Fidei86 wrote:
#1570 His read here is actually pretty insightful. It relies upon POE a little bit, but also looking at her read of disfo is pretty smart.
Yeah, that is what gives me pause on DYH at this moment. Despite him being wrong on me, this approach is quite fascinating and I just don't see that coming from scum.
Meanwhile Trfel's filter is as tough as old boots... not sure if I can finish that before going to bed.
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I am back. That was a long ass timeout.
On December 08 2015 07:18 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 06:11 NocturneMage wrote:
Rels to answer your question on LS - I have read from the point of my main exchange with him, pges 7-9 of his filter can be summarised
(1) inflating the filter with useless comments (not even part of alignment determining conversation or even afk comments)
(2) parroting (examples post 1635)
(3) 1450 to 1478 is an example of asking for information and not really doing anything of it
This is insane for me. The NKs exonerate LS, but at the same time it is mindboggling this guy is doing dick all and people are ignoring him.
His filter is 1000% mafia. Something isn't right. NK WIFOM is super dangerous.
I realise this James.
I was coached in the past that (1) it becomes stronger in the late game or (2) in aggregate and (3) tying it together with other forms of evidence.
To this be said, the NKs may not have occurred because of LS but because of the third teammate (and in some effect N1 could be attributed to HTS for all we know, it's safe to say she and Damdred probably had some games together).
I want badly to trust my townreads (Shining/Rels) and two flipped but now when you mention this and your rationale for policy lynching LS, I do get worried.
This is reminding me of Newbie 14. rayn and yamato - two flipped town (and the former a townread of mine in that game) hard townread Copcake over some shitty voice mafia heuristic and when I engaged her she failed to meet the criteria she even said for herself. The ONLY reason she was ever caught was because I was cop and I redchecked her.
Sad to say I'm VT, who knows what our one-shot-hell-if-I-knew-what-we-had blue role actually is.
But in fleshing out my read on LS there were several pitfalls with him.
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Alright, here we go.
Some deep filter research/past games on LS.
I'm going through a few LS games as scum. I have some bad news for all you LS defenders, I think current meta is unreliable in gauging him as town. He actually has a very decent chance of being mafia.
I'm looking at two scum games by LS -
Jack of All Trades - endgamed night 3, mafia victory
TL Mafia LXX Guardians of the Galaxy - lynched day 2, mafia victory
In both games he has played as mafia, and looks decently (at first glance) close to his current playstyle in this game.
Read the Guardians filter in particular and he was downed by a very lucky random tracker role check.
On March 22 2015 12:41 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 12:38 Trfel wrote:On March 22 2015 12:33 LightningStrike wrote:On March 22 2015 12:30 Trfel wrote:
Hi LightningStrike,
I truly am sorry about your Grandpa. That is extremely unfortunate.
I hope you don't mind being lynched too much, especially since you already said that you didn't want to play this game any more. Ya I'm sorry I rolled Scum on you Trfel and I wish I didn't have to roll scum with you after Student IV  What made you track Holyflare? Also thanks for the condolences everyone from the thread! I tracked you, not Holyflare. That would have been watching Holyflare. To be honest, and this probably isn't going to make you happy, but....
It was a complete and total accident.First I submitted Vivax (as a placeholder), then I changed it to Superbia, then I changed it to you, and then I changed it to VisceraEyes (but that was within 20 minutes of End of Day, so by the rules it didn't count). And I just happened to get the track role (though I suppose a bullet would have done the job as well). Honestly, I didn't see how the rolecheck would be of much use, so I was trying to go for a more outside chance at mafia, one that was more likely to carry KP. You fit as a player who was suspicious, but not overly so, thus a very good chance at carrying KP. A lot of it was based on Damdred's analysis having you as scum, and Superbia's filter not looking that bad to me.So I'm sorry, it was largely an accident. And had it not worked out for me, you guys would be in a much better spot, since I would be an easy mislynch. Damn you accidents T_T
Key areas in this one - Damdred had him as scum in that game. This game, he was going to vote LS and only changed based on the modconfirm. Reliability of metaread? Food for thought. IDK.
In that game, he was straight up tracker checked and you can't really fight a tracker check. IDK.
Now Jack of All Trades - he was clearly coached to play to his town meta this game. This was by geript.
Evidence - postgame mentioning by a teammate
On March 10 2015 10:15 geript wrote:
When I saw the mafia team, I knew I was going to have to try and carry early on. Keir doesn't have time to post much but I was hoping for more from him. Sandroba hates playing as mafia. LS can likely be townread and ignored mostly. Kurumi and Slam were both likely to be lynched for basically doing nothing consistently. So I knew I was going to have to snowball it ideally.
I forget who it was (maybe Epiphany) that called me out for exactly what I was doing on D1, but basically he said: Geript is just trying to push people to shoot 24hrs in, Geript is just trying to stir the pot with people, Geript has no non-bullshit points. It was actually really, really correct on all points. My whole point of D1 was to try and get Rayn and Koshi off balance as much as possible. Call them bad; push other points; make them doubt their reads; etc. It was actually really funny because Rayn was also really, really right when he fingered me (kinky) on N1. Who I ever really say was mafia? I had like 3-4 "suspects" that I just kinda rambled about but was far more interested in arguing, bullying and making it hard for people to think about the game (instead of act emotionally). That would never be my town play. Thus why he had to die.
FWIW, I was never drunk this game. Didn't even go to the mexican place; I was just lazy and faked it. I think Toad took that quote out of context. Because Tube was arguing that I was mafia with Sandroba (tin foil hat is right but for the wrong reasons); I was arguing that if that were the case, I would never let Sandro make the play. BTW, it's a really bad play and he shouldn't have made it (in context of his thread presence).
Town spirit really fucked up something fierce.
LS in this game actually endgamed town. So whoever said that LS has trouble playing as mafia......sorry mate, you are wrong. Dead wrong.
He endgamed in Jack of All Trades and there's a reason.
Further evidence: the game's respective mafia QT.
http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Nu9EUQfvt53
geript is completely coaching him to play to his town meta.
Same thing could very well be happening with a potential HTS/LS team. HTS and whoever else could be working with him for the same thing here.
James you might be on to something here. That policy lynch vote very well might be on to a mafia.
TLDR: The current reads right now based on this past performance are unreliable, so at best LS is a coin flip regardless of what people are thinking of this modconfirmation.
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I still feel Trfel has a much greater chance of flipping mafia though.
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Fidei please comment on post 1691, same with Rels when you return based on your last input.
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Did a re-read of James' filter.
Fidei looks a lot more towny in his final two pages of filter. I'm going to say he's town.
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Quick list post:
Town: Shining, Rels, myself
Probable town: Fidei, disformation
Town lean: DYH (NK analysis, thought process not inherently wrong)
Need to read: Fecalfeast (possible bus?)
Probable scum: LS, Trfel
Vote currently on Trfel.
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On December 08 2015 05:54 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 04:00 NocturneMage wrote:
I refute all these posts and particularly the basis for this scumreads based on how I replaced into the game, caught up, towncircled and adjusted reads (and I'm still doing so!!!!), and then he's still on his merry way saying I'm mafia? He uses his own metrics to make these assumptions. I'm on page 8/10 of his filter, he gives two town reads on dyh/ls, and then goes back to just seeing me as public enemy #1.
focusing on absolutely no one else except me and using explanations that don't make me mafia through several points I've refuted him on based on comparison of his play to last game, his approach to me this game, his refusal to see how I process through a town lens, including any reasoning for my change in tone, which I have explained.
he pulled the same shit last game as mafia, stuff that may not be alignment indicative and exclusive scum lens here.
and this all, plus the NKs....
Just kill Trfel.
I know there is mafia #3, I will follow up on James, and I won't ignore a third mafia but just honestly kill Trfel.
Bloody hell. Good stuff on Trfel. Particulary, I didn't understand his change of heart just because of the Damdred NK (Damdred townread NM so he wuold not NK him!) while at the same time saying scum!Shining could have killed Damdred before Damdred realized he's scum. He tried to explain it at first, then said it was a mistake. Let me see if I can find the posts. Show nested quote +On December 05 2015 03:00 Trfel wrote:
This is simply wrong. Damdred said that he wasn't townreading NocturneMage, but he was clearly resistant to the lynch (as he showed on Day 1). And again, scum doesn't care to keep someone who is townreading them alive if that mafia is going to live for a few days.
Like, if The Shining is mafia, he knew that he probably wasn't going to die for a day or two, and that's a lot that could potentially change Damdred's read. Damdred's townread doesn't really mean much and it's okay to kill Damdred, and there's fear that Damdred could figure it out.
But NocturneMage was at a high chance of getting lynched the very next day, in which case Damdred's read on him at that very moment (null being better than everyone else's read, and Damdred had a lot of influence, and wouldn't lynch a null read) would be really valuable. Basically, NocturneMage would just have to stay null or look a little better and Damdred would likely try to stop the lynch.
I already said that this has too many variables and I'm unable to accurately draw a conclusion from the night kill. I believe the reasons by my earlier analysis but I no longer trust the conclusion. If you think I'm scum for being wrong, you should read any one of my town games, because I'm wrong a whole darn lot. Like this is really false. He's first saying he's right that you would not kill Damdred, as Damdred's read would help you survive; when Damdred said he found Moosy's filter NAI and would evaluate you, which is super scary for a scum to hear. Then he's using a kinda opposite reasonning on Shining. Finally, he admits being wrong, which defeats the whole point of this wall of text. There is only one reason Trfel made this post: defend himself against my accusation. He certainly didn't make it to push his reasonning, since he admits at the end his reasonning was wrong.
What do you think of Fidei's reasoning since you left the thread? I think he's town and I think you need to vote Trfel or possibly LS. Take a look at both his post and mine regarding LS and how we got there.
I think you and the rest of this game are dead wrong on giving LS the townreads you are, or he needs to be evaluated differently than people have been doing so. There is precedent for him playing like this as mafia, so the claim that LS has trouble lying as mafia simply does not stand.
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NK analysis implicates Fidei, I get that, but it cannot be the only thing, no? Let me check your last posts.....
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Rels -
On December 07 2015 23:06 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2015 22:31 NocturneMage wrote:
Rels
Damdred was going back and forth, finding reasons for both rationales of town and mafia Trfel.
I think Trfel is the right vote today, but if you're that suspicious of Fidei aside from the reasons I looked into him, what were your other arguments? None.
On December 08 2015 05:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 03:49 NocturneMage wrote:On December 08 2015 01:58 Rels wrote:
I read fidei s filter and everybody should do that, then vote him.
He really is robotic in tone. I will check if that works as the case in his town games, but I see what Palmer meant.
His ls read seems fake. Around eod, "I would lynch him but I would rather lynch other people." After eod, "Rels and disfo are town if ls is town." Then "actually this confirmed town stuff doesn't convince me", when before eod he was not that convinced on ls to begin with. Now he's still pushing ls for ... I don't really know why.
His filter is focused on very few people. I think he's buddying me.
After Hts became the clear lynch, he didn't do anything. He was playing dota all weekend instead of being motivated to play.
Palmar s main target was fidei and he was the nk.
To everyone: please read his filter and report back. I'm marking this for reference because I am looking at this post and there are a slew of things that are throwing me off. Not because I think this post looks scummy but because there is a lot of subjectivity in this read. Tone reads are tone reads. I was taught prior to this game they are very subjective, and generally best for day 1 reads but as a strong meta read through this is day 3? it just seems weak without other evidence like voting analysis etc. or if you can tie the meta to something else. Like when he acts X, he does Y in conjunction with Z. Tie the tone to actions. Tie the tone to effects. Am I making sense? Separate from that however, I will look into the LS read. The unflipped association is really bad but townies also make unflipped association all the time. I pushed LS because he was doing dick all and only such after the fact, and most critically, he failed to push HTS when he found her end of cycle questionable. We both agreed the LS filter was complete trash through the end of day 2, so if LS's game has gotten better (to be fair I stopped reading after the hts lynch) AND if Fidei is continuing to push the lynch, then it does look really bad. I guess it comes down to what work he's put in to get his conclusions. I am putting aside LS for now based on the NKs personally. Back to James focusing on a few people, I can understand as a scum indicative, ignoring time (which can account for town not having the time), it can indicate an agenda. Because mafia need mislynches. I can get that. The same argument however can be made for DYH, but this last thing I looked at him, he doesn't seem to have a lot of time playing the game? Both were making in and out excuses, so only the NK analysis separates those two. To use another example, FF was playing Fallout 4 all weekend. But NKs don't/didn't implicate him, so... Also this term called buddying. I had recently shadowed marvellosity and I asked him a question about the difference between buddying and pocketing. And that they were both related. I didn't understand it in the context you were using it, so I looked it up. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=BuddyingBuddying is a tactic used to subconsciously become perceived as less of a threat by another player. While this is usually done by scum, Townies have been known to do this as well.
This is typically accomplished by the buddying player acting unnaturally friendly to its target, either subtly or outright. Originally, this made it so that once the buddying scum died, it implicated the victim they were acting friendly toward. In addition, by budding up to a victim, they will become less likely to want to lynch the buddying player in the first place. More recently, though, this has become used as a pre-emptive accusation against anyone who acts nicely toward another player, regardless of intent. So I look at this definition Rels, and I am trying to think of a time where Fidei acts "unnaturally friendly" towards you. Lack of scepticism? He explained using meta why he's townreading you but are you saying it's bad meta to townread you or was there another quote that you using to say he's buddying you? I had no idea what buddying really meant. He has a lot of post either talking about me or talking to me. What is your read on LS now then ? Cause that stuff seems to be left without a conclusion. About the lack of time - that's why I precised I saw him on DOTA several times on the weekend. Which is exactly what he did in SOTW 2.
Please take a look at why I think LS might be possible mafia.
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On December 08 2015 09:23 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 08:14 Fidei86 wrote:
I'm not convinced by his read progression towards EOD1. He is on kushmasta, then comes off him "because he starts to do stuff". He then sheeps Damdred onto LS, without giving much reasoning and crucially while asking Damdred pointed questions about his own progression. Ah, I can try to explain my thought process on that. From the top of my hat it went like this: 1. Damdred wants to vote LS (without explanation) 2. I look at LS filter and behold it is bad. 3. Damdred was a town-lean at this point, so while I agree on the filter I want to see where damdred is at, so I can sheep him with confidence. 4. I like damdreds answers upgrade him to a town read (I think I also posted this upgrade) and sheep him onto LS Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 08:36 Fidei86 wrote:
#1570 His read here is actually pretty insightful. It relies upon POE a little bit, but also looking at her read of disfo is pretty smart. Yeah, that is what gives me pause on DYH at this moment. Despite him being wrong on me, this approach is quite fascinating and I just don't see that coming from scum. Meanwhile Trfel's filter is as tough as old boots... not sure if I can finish that before going to bed.
If you can give your opinions on LS/Trfel that would be grand.
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Now the ultimate analysis is whether an LS/HTS/Trfel team makes sense or whether the interactions might be there to support that theory or at least one of those two players. Something for tomorrow.
Also should probably look into Shining's argument about Fecalfeast. It's not a bad one, but Fecalfeast WAS lazy as hell last game too. So I think I need to approach a simple compare and contrast. I know Fecalfeast replaced in for Onegu, for whom from what I could tell appeared to be a straight policy lynch for most people.
All for tomorrow. 2:30am, my time here is done tonight.
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EPT
