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Dark Tournament Mini Mafia - Page 86

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NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 08 2015 02:29 GMT
#1701
On December 08 2015 08:37 Fidei86 wrote:
Right. Quick game of dota then bed. Will catch up in the am.


Scum.

(joking. just had to say this.)
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
LightningStrike
Profile Joined February 2011
United States14277 Posts
December 08 2015 03:25 GMT
#1702
To be fair on that NM: I hadn't rolled scum for like 10 games in row before Jack of All Trades so it was a really long time before I had rolled scum as the only scum game before that game was my 2nd game ever on TL(Student IV) where I gotten lynched Day 3 on a like 3-4 page filter lol..... Plus again I was coached by Geript who was actually a pretty good scum coach(see Newbie LX for his coach work with HTS, Scott, and -Celestial-) and I was lynched by that team. Guardians I was just lazy on my meta and wasn't bringing much to the table and left the day die and they dind't find any partners with me outside of Palmar of Sickluckers ballsy(stupid) shot on Palmar with the orb in guardians. Anyways I think I can have a potential case on James tomorrow for everyone to look at.
May the next light shine/Former #1 Alliance LoL fan/ Current Teamliquid LoL Fan
Fecalfeast
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada11355 Posts
December 08 2015 03:29 GMT
#1703
shamelessly sheeping NM while i get my new SSD all up and running

##vote trfel


consider me a gullible extra vote bot for now i guess
ModeratorINFLATE YOUR POST COUNT; PLAY TL MAFIA
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 08 2015 05:17 GMT
#1704
Soooooo, my reason for townreading Trfel apparently is bad. It is association based on his interactions with HtS. I've been looking at his last scum game. If I was playing, I would never have picked up on anything odd between him and Breshke. So confused...

This weakens my argument against Disfo as well, even if my initial assumption was true.
##Unvote

My to-do before the deadline is to reread the cases on Trfel and Fid, read Fid's filter and decide the more likely scum.
Guts? Determination? $5?
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6052 Posts
December 08 2015 07:12 GMT
#1705
Vote Count


Trfel (2): NocturneMage, Fecalfeast
Fidei86(1): Rels
LightningStrike (1): Fidei86

Not Voting (5): disformation, Trfel, The Shining, LightningStrike, DoYouHas


Currently Trfel is set to be lynched.

This Day ends at Tuesday, Dec 08 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 23:00 GMT (+00:00).

Lynch Voting is done in the voting thread (here). Do not PM me your vote.

Voting is mandatory. You may not abstain.
I can take that responsibility.
Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
December 08 2015 08:33 GMT
#1706
On December 08 2015 14:17 DoYouHas wrote:
Soooooo, my reason for townreading Trfel apparently is bad. It is association based on his interactions with HtS. I've been looking at his last scum game. If I was playing, I would never have picked up on anything odd between him and Breshke. So confused...

This weakens my argument against Disfo as well, even if my initial assumption was true.
##Unvote

My to-do before the deadline is to reread the cases on Trfel and Fid, read Fid's filter and decide the more likely scum.

What about LS?
Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
December 08 2015 09:31 GMT
#1707
Is nobody else concerned that lots of people are 'softing' me, or saying 'they need to look more into me', but as far as I can see nobody has actually come up with a reason to scum read me, other than (1) Palmar was scum reading me and (2) I sound "robotic". Those are some very weak reasons. Town are wrong all the time. And idk if I sound robotic - I'm not going to defend myself on a tone basis. And the fact that everyone is spewing them (apart from NM) is confusing. Can everyone please just come out and read my filter and say where you stand.
Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
December 08 2015 09:43 GMT
#1708
I think we need to start thinking about FF as well. So far the thread consensus is "he's lazy, so he's town". Isn't that a pretty shitty reason to read someone? Being lazy and useless is literally the easiest meta to emulate, because you don't have to do anything. I'll take a look at his filter when I can.
Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
December 08 2015 10:02 GMT
#1709
Eh from a tone read I can see why FF looks like a lazy town.

- His read progression on NM is okay (although it's a bit weird to start off scum reading them and then a day later be willing to mindlessly sheep him)
- He doesn't seem impressed with LS' filter, but never gives a real read on him
- Most importantly, most of his filter is him scum reading Trfel. BUT when it comes to voting him, he says "oh well I'm just sheeping NM". Huh? Like, his Trfel read is basically his one contribution to the game, but now he's pretending like it didn't happen, passing all responsibility onto NM.

Phone post, but this filter is definitely worth diving with references if I get a chance this evening.
Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
December 08 2015 10:14 GMT
#1710
On December 08 2015 11:08 NocturneMage wrote:
Fidei please comment on post 1691, same with Rels when you return based on your last input.

I appreciate the work you put in on this Alex, but really your post seems to be a very long version of "someone might be helping LS". Of course they might. Although, if they were helping him, they'd probably tell him to stop being so hopeless.

No, I think the more likely explanation is that scum LS is genuinely unable to lie. Like, he struggles with it. I struggled with it mightily too when I was mafia with Rels in SOTW2. And when you can't lie, the easiest thing to do is to constantly ask other people questions, give the blandest town reads possible to everyone and generally be useless. I should apologise to LS because if he is trying as town, I'm giving him a very hard time. But this is a game and I can only read what I have in front of me.

I really, really, really want everyone to imagine this game if LS isn't lynched. He's going to continue to be an absolute coin-flip throughout the whole game. Like, people have suspicions over Trfel, me, DYH ... I have a recent suspicion on FF. But at least all of those people have shown *some* willing to try and solve the game. If any of them are town, that towniness should in theory be possible to distinguish. LS is always going to be objectively scummy in this game. He has had two full game days to change his play and he hasn't. We lynch him now, maybe hit scum, but definitely get rid of the big damn question-mark over his head.

Yes, it's a policy lynch. I get that people think it's lazy. But I've been in too many games where Onegu has AFK'd through the first three days and then got mislynched at the end.
Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
December 08 2015 10:16 GMT
#1711
I guess my conclusion should add "Yes it's a policy lynch ... AND he's objectively scummy". If you think I don't have full faith in my read -- you're right. I don't. But I'd rather lynch LS than DYH. I will read Trfel's filter (ughhhhhhh).
Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
December 08 2015 10:17 GMT
#1712
AND yes I am kicking myself for not sticking on the LS lynch on D1.
Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
December 08 2015 10:17 GMT
#1713
Where are you Rels? Time to pick up a little bit of the weight here, bro.
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
December 08 2015 10:27 GMT
#1714
On December 08 2015 10:54 NocturneMage wrote:
Alright, here we go.

Some deep filter research/past games on LS.

I'm going through a few LS games as scum. I have some bad news for all you LS defenders, I think current meta is unreliable in gauging him as town. He actually has a very decent chance of being mafia.

I'm looking at two scum games by LS -

Jack of All Trades - endgamed night 3, mafia victory
TL Mafia LXX Guardians of the Galaxy - lynched day 2, mafia victory

In both games he has played as mafia, and looks decently (at first glance) close to his current playstyle in this game.

Read the Guardians filter in particular and he was downed by a very lucky random tracker role check.

Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 12:41 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 22 2015 12:38 Trfel wrote:
On March 22 2015 12:33 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 22 2015 12:30 Trfel wrote:
Hi LightningStrike,

I truly am sorry about your Grandpa. That is extremely unfortunate.

I hope you don't mind being lynched too much, especially since you already said that you didn't want to play this game any more.

Ya I'm sorry I rolled Scum on you Trfel and I wish I didn't have to roll scum with you after Student IV What made you track Holyflare?
Also thanks for the condolences everyone from the thread!
I tracked you, not Holyflare. That would have been watching Holyflare.

To be honest, and this probably isn't going to make you happy, but....

It was a complete and total accident.


First I submitted Vivax (as a placeholder), then I changed it to Superbia, then I changed it to you, and then I changed it to VisceraEyes (but that was within 20 minutes of End of Day, so by the rules it didn't count). And I just happened to get the track role (though I suppose a bullet would have done the job as well).

Honestly, I didn't see how the rolecheck would be of much use, so I was trying to go for a more outside chance at mafia, one that was more likely to carry KP. You fit as a player who was suspicious, but not overly so, thus a very good chance at carrying KP. A lot of it was based on Damdred's analysis having you as scum, and Superbia's filter not looking that bad to me.

So I'm sorry, it was largely an accident. And had it not worked out for me, you guys would be in a much better spot, since I would be an easy mislynch.

Damn you accidents T_T


Key areas in this one - Damdred had him as scum in that game. This game, he was going to vote LS and only changed based on the modconfirm. Reliability of metaread? Food for thought. IDK.

In that game, he was straight up tracker checked and you can't really fight a tracker check. IDK.

Now Jack of All Trades - he was clearly coached to play to his town meta this game. This was by geript.

Evidence - postgame mentioning by a teammate

Show nested quote +
On March 10 2015 10:15 geript wrote:
When I saw the mafia team, I knew I was going to have to try and carry early on. Keir doesn't have time to post much but I was hoping for more from him. Sandroba hates playing as mafia. LS can likely be townread and ignored mostly. Kurumi and Slam were both likely to be lynched for basically doing nothing consistently. So I knew I was going to have to snowball it ideally.

I forget who it was (maybe Epiphany) that called me out for exactly what I was doing on D1, but basically he said: Geript is just trying to push people to shoot 24hrs in, Geript is just trying to stir the pot with people, Geript has no non-bullshit points. It was actually really, really correct on all points. My whole point of D1 was to try and get Rayn and Koshi off balance as much as possible. Call them bad; push other points; make them doubt their reads; etc. It was actually really funny because Rayn was also really, really right when he fingered me (kinky) on N1. Who I ever really say was mafia? I had like 3-4 "suspects" that I just kinda rambled about but was far more interested in arguing, bullying and making it hard for people to think about the game (instead of act emotionally). That would never be my town play. Thus why he had to die.

FWIW, I was never drunk this game. Didn't even go to the mexican place; I was just lazy and faked it. I think Toad took that quote out of context. Because Tube was arguing that I was mafia with Sandroba (tin foil hat is right but for the wrong reasons); I was arguing that if that were the case, I would never let Sandro make the play. BTW, it's a really bad play and he shouldn't have made it (in context of his thread presence).

Town spirit really fucked up something fierce.


LS in this game actually endgamed town. So whoever said that LS has trouble playing as mafia......sorry mate, you are wrong. Dead wrong.

He endgamed in Jack of All Trades and there's a reason.

Further evidence: the game's respective mafia QT.

http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Nu9EUQfvt53

geript is completely coaching him to play to his town meta.

Same thing could very well be happening with a potential HTS/LS team. HTS and whoever else could be working with him for the same thing here.

James you might be on to something here. That policy lynch vote very well might be on to a mafia.

TLDR: The current reads right now based on this past performance are unreliable, so at best LS is a coin flip regardless of what people are thinking of this modconfirmation.

Scrolled through these two games. In neither LS screamed with all caps, even when being lynched. Furthermore, HTS checking LS' meta so close to the deadline and without unvoting him indicates HTS distancing herself from a town lynch rather than trying to save a teammate.
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
December 08 2015 10:27 GMT
#1715
On December 08 2015 19:17 Fidei86 wrote:
Where are you Rels? Time to pick up a little bit of the weight here, bro.

Here bro. Still wanting to lynch LS ? I will fight against that lynch.
Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
December 08 2015 10:31 GMT
#1716
On December 08 2015 19:27 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2015 19:17 Fidei86 wrote:
Where are you Rels? Time to pick up a little bit of the weight here, bro.

Here bro. Still wanting to lynch LS ? I will fight against that lynch.

(1) Screaming in all caps is LITERALLY THE EASIEST THING TO DO IN THE GAME. IT SHOULD BE USED FOR EMPHASIS ONLY WHEN MAKING IMPORTANT POINTS.
(2) Who knows why HTS did what she did. But this point does hold a little more weight. I have thought about it a fair bit. I'm just concerned that it's a little too much WIFOM and a little too little objectivity.

And who else do you want to lynch? Me?
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
December 08 2015 10:31 GMT
#1717
On December 08 2015 19:14 Fidei86 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2015 11:08 NocturneMage wrote:
Fidei please comment on post 1691, same with Rels when you return based on your last input.

I appreciate the work you put in on this Alex, but really your post seems to be a very long version of "someone might be helping LS". Of course they might. Although, if they were helping him, they'd probably tell him to stop being so hopeless.

No, I think the more likely explanation is that scum LS is genuinely unable to lie. Like, he struggles with it. I struggled with it mightily too when I was mafia with Rels in SOTW2. And when you can't lie, the easiest thing to do is to constantly ask other people questions, give the blandest town reads possible to everyone and generally be useless. I should apologise to LS because if he is trying as town, I'm giving him a very hard time. But this is a game and I can only read what I have in front of me.

I really, really, really want everyone to imagine this game if LS isn't lynched. He's going to continue to be an absolute coin-flip throughout the whole game. Like, people have suspicions over Trfel, me, DYH ... I have a recent suspicion on FF. But at least all of those people have shown *some* willing to try and solve the game. If any of them are town, that towniness should in theory be possible to distinguish. LS is always going to be objectively scummy in this game. He has had two full game days to change his play and he hasn't. We lynch him now, maybe hit scum, but definitely get rid of the big damn question-mark over his head.

Yes, it's a policy lynch. I get that people think it's lazy. But I've been in too many games where Onegu has AFK'd through the first three days and then got mislynched at the end.

That is exactly why LS is probably confirmed town: how he yelled in all caps at deadline D1.
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
December 08 2015 10:33 GMT
#1718
On December 08 2015 19:31 Fidei86 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2015 19:27 Rels wrote:
On December 08 2015 19:17 Fidei86 wrote:
Where are you Rels? Time to pick up a little bit of the weight here, bro.

Here bro. Still wanting to lynch LS ? I will fight against that lynch.

(1) Screaming in all caps is LITERALLY THE EASIEST THING TO DO IN THE GAME. IT SHOULD BE USED FOR EMPHASIS ONLY WHEN MAKING IMPORTANT POINTS.
(2) Who knows why HTS did what she did. But this point does hold a little more weight. I have thought about it a fair bit. I'm just concerned that it's a little too much WIFOM and a little too little objectivity.

And who else do you want to lynch? Me?

Don't know, let's talk about it. Trfel ? You're townreading him right ?
What happened to your NM potential scumread BTW ?
Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
December 08 2015 10:33 GMT
#1719
IS THIS WHAT IT HAS COME TO RELS? YOU SOLVE PERSONALITIES (ALMOST), YOU CARRY SOTW AND A BUNCH OF OTHER GAMES, AND NOW YOU WILL EXHONERATE LS BECAUSE HE USED ALL CAPS TO SAY "I'M NOT MAFIA"???

WTF? How can you possibly believe that?
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
December 08 2015 10:35 GMT
#1720
On December 08 2015 19:33 Fidei86 wrote:
IS THIS WHAT IT HAS COME TO RELS? YOU SOLVE PERSONALITIES (ALMOST), YOU CARRY SOTW AND A BUNCH OF OTHER GAMES, AND NOW YOU WILL EXHONERATE LS BECAUSE HE USED ALL CAPS TO SAY "I'M NOT MAFIA"???

WTF? How can you possibly believe that?

Bro calm down. I really think it is town indicative for LS. Sry if that's not classy enough for you.
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