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On February 09 2016 00:38 Rels wrote:
I don't know if that is really true though. He always said "I'm Ok with Palmar's lynch but ....", then as soon as N1 hits he was OK lynching Palmar.
Yea which is my main way to catch koshi as scum, wishy washyness. I am opposed to lynching him tomorrow unless he keeps playing like this but we'll see what he can do next phase for town.
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On February 09 2016 00:35 nooniansoong wrote:
vayne i think you underestimate nm's content. seems like he made a point about you that you disagreed with so you put your hands over your ears and shouted LALALLALALA.
not really, you'll see that I conceded that his meta case on palmar was good and I give him props when he writes things that make sense.
I know you dont care much but go look at his recent posting again and tell me its remotely close to his original cases, its borderline gibberish/english.
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like i asked him to clarify what his point was and he says im being intentionally stupid then peaces. lol?
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On February 09 2016 00:46 Rels wrote:
I don't believe NM can be mafia with Palmar, and Palmar is 99% scum, so I'm pretty sure NM is town.
He was fighting pretty hard for Palmar to be lynched D1, he even might have been the reason Damdred switched.
Then explain to me why he is trying to ride this palmar cred into the sunset and then some one that voted BEFORE him is scummy and im not even trying to get any palmar cred, i literally dont give a shit. I just vote what I think and thats it like ive always done. And then when you try to reason with him he just says "no, you're stupid" and leaves.
If that's town I really can't see myself ever getting along with him.
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On February 09 2016 00:49 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2016 00:32 VayneAuthority wrote:On February 09 2016 00:21 nooniansoong wrote:
i like koshi for possible tryhardish scum
then nm for possible but unlikely tryhard superscum both of those are completely legit and possible if the scumteam isnt superlurk squad. I still don't have a 100% tr on koshi but leaning town. its possible because of how the game played out + we have a lot of good players he doesnt feel the need to do much? i dont know honestly. All i can remember is him tunneling you and doesn't seem super cocky on any reads besides that which isnt normal. If palmar is scum though, he hard defended him since the beginning when he didnt really have to and made himself look super bad for basically no reason. Maybe I should look more at what he has done to help town though because I dont think its been much As for NM, its possible he is going for a BH style scum play but I honestly just started ignoring him. If you read his posts in depth they are actually just long walls of texts of nothing again recently that dont mean anything and are borderline english. The bolded is a very bad reason to townread/townlean anyone let alone a player of (from what I understand) Koshi's calibre. Rels had probably the best argument as for why Koshi is likely scum. To the points you have (bolded), he pointed out that a lot of Koshi's reads went nowhere, a common scum trait. Day 1 it was the same thing I pointed out with how he approached reads on ritoky and Damdred. That read is actually pretty terrible.
oh here he is to pop into the thread call me scum and leave again and call me stupid and fuck my wife and then leave ^^ just in time
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Like we were having a pretty reasonable and good discussion and he pops in out of nowhere to shit on some random read I have, lol wut? Anyways I am reading BF/moosy because onegu/chez is a waste of time
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A lot of things point in boxerfred's favor actually. Palmar's first push (timeline always important, this is very significant) his weird conspiracy theories littered throughout his filter, and his really aggressive tone. I am 90% sure boxerfred is town, would only re-assess if palmar flips town.
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On February 09 2016 01:24 NocturneMage wrote:Trfel told me something valuable in the Fullmetal postgame - it's not just the timing of your vote that counts - it's also the content and your involvement related to the vote. And on your (VA) end it was pretty minimal. (1) There was no mention of Palmar anywhere in your filter prior to your vote. Marv had been probing Palmar quite a bit and voted 5 hours prior to your vote. (2) AFAIK, you were not sheeping a townread or anything like that. The basis for your vote was unrelated to the interactions with marv/Palmar/etc. Just because you voted before me doesn't make you any more townier. To be fair, I could not play most of the first half of day 1, and because I was not present in thread with Palmar, I had to use different criteria to evaluate him (as opposed to my interactions, of course there were none). Even then my case on Palmar was roughly 3 hours before marv's vote on Palmar. + Show Spoiler [Focus on timestamps] +On February 05 2016 15:45 NocturneMage wrote:Why I have a bad feeling Palmar could be mafiaPalmar - read the following games for a compare/contrast: Tropical Storm, Down Under 3, Generic Boring. - In Generic Boring, he was dead wrong everywhere but he was assertive as all hell, was n1ed - Tropical Storm, looks like one right read, one wrong one (Damdred/rsoultin) but here, he goes pushing rsoultin on voting record, and is adamant he knew when to drop a townread on someone/knowing whom to sheep, not seeing that here. Important because a number of people in reading this thread are saying "game is hard" to some extent. They all can't be mafia. A cursory look through Palmar's filter - no strong town reads (i.e. I would sheep so and so) - Down Under 3 - Here, another example of one of his "absolutist" posts. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/490661-mini-mafia-down-under-3?page=52#1026Checking OP, all but one of these are wrong. Note: I purposely ignored PYP because a) it was a themed game b) multiple mafia teams The big contrast for me is tone. I'm seeing a lot of conditionals in this game (i.e. bf might be mafia), and a lot of absolutes in the above three games. Like he's so sure of himself even when he's wrong. The one thing I notice is his main involvement with JAT/marv/Koshi - two of which I'm townreading. Leads into the big contrast is his normal meta of lynching the inactives, the scummy players, etc. I'm looking for a push or even a trifle of anything against the sheer number of lower content players or even (almost universally?) scumread/discussed myself. Nothing. From Tropical Storm - and I know he applied this in PYP Show nested quote +On August 17 2015 01:18 Palmar wrote:
Some Pálmar advice:
Do NOT try to find someone playing an "amazing" scumgame. Lynch people who are inactive, don't contribute and in general do scummy shit. It's way too early for tinfoil hat theories. Finally I re-read his Outlaw Mafia filter for day 1 to refresh his day 1 scum play (go to his filter - read pages 1-3, day 1 ends at page 3) - and I'll be honest - his game so far here is a lot closer to his Day 1 play in Outlaw. I think people should read it - there's a lot of missing town tells that were present in the three games I discussed above. On February 05 2016 20:01 marvellosity wrote:
##unvote
##Vote Palmar First mention of Palmar in your filter - On February 06 2016 00:38 VayneAuthority wrote:
oh and ##vote: Palmar
He is supposed to be my day 1 antithesis, the pinnacle of good day 1 play. where is that here On February 06 2016 00:40 VayneAuthority wrote:
##vote palmar That's the difference between my vote, and yours. Even though I didn't place the vote until after yours, you had zero mention of Palmar contentwise.
Find me games where I am invested in the lynch as either alignment, its null. That's my playstyle and many people here can attest to that. Conveniently you use meta for everyone else but not me, funny that is.
Also you are putting words in my mouth, never said it makes me townie or anything. Literally could not care less about looking or being townie. I only play this game for one reason, to be right.
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On February 09 2016 01:32 disformation wrote:Also thinking Rels is town. So by POE my VCA basically says that VA has a very high chance of being scum. Will look more into VA after the flip. 
don't quit your day job with that analysis
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On February 09 2016 01:40 NocturneMage wrote:No VA, I'm not putting words into your mouth, you didn't say you were more townie, but you sure implied it. Show nested quote +On February 09 2016 00:49 VayneAuthority wrote:
Then explain to me why he is trying to ride this palmar cred into the sunset and then some one that voted BEFORE him is scummy and im not even trying to get any palmar cred, i literally dont give a shit. I just vote what I think and thats it like ive always done. And then when you try to reason with him he just says "no, you're stupid" and leaves.
If that's town I really can't see myself ever getting along with him. The "Riding cred into the sunset" implies that I'm scum from your point of view. The "someone that voted before him is scummy and I'm not even trying to get any Palmar cred" is an implication for yourself that you are either town or more town than I am.
You are putting words in my mouth. I haven't once tried to leverage being not on the zyrre wagon as something that I shouldnt be lynched for, which is what you implied.
Anyways go ahead and find me those games since you like using meta so much. its the crux of your argument that i wasnt invested in the lynch, should be easy to find games where I am right?
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just seems simple to me, he should show that I invest in lynches as town and dont care as scum in past games if he is arguing that makes me scum
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On February 09 2016 02:28 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2016 02:25 disformation wrote:
Hmmm... not a single scummer being on the palmar train sounds hard to belief...
Well the votes were super fucking close. Maybe scum really was jumping hard on the zyrre train to save Palmar in the hope he can pull that stuff he did in Outlaw again?
Like Palmar+koshi+chez+1 of MD or Onegu doesn't sound unreasonable. One interesting thing to notice about the votecount is the last 4 players (if we include you) on the Palmar train were town Usually (obv not always, but as a vague rule of thumb) you'd expect the players at the front to be town, and the players more in the middle/end to be mafia (where mafia come to the realisation they need to bus), but in this case it's not quite like that. It adds to the possibility the wagon was "pure"
Basically everyone needs to take a deep breath and not complicate the game, this game seems really simple as long as I ignore NM and trust the meta read on him. Disform you arent taking into account the throwaway votes which are stupid indicative of mafia.
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koshi, if you had to take 2 people into space with you on your rocketship and one became your mason buddy and one you ejected from space and killed who would they be
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hm yea he didnt answer my question directly or even jokingly  not my best buddy this game
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is it the flip already? im losing track of time
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at least all our assumptions didnt go to waste because thats basically all we did this cycle lol
if palmar was town I probably would have afk'd
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On February 09 2016 08:08 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2016 08:07 LightningStrike wrote:On February 09 2016 08:05 disformation wrote:On February 09 2016 08:02 marvellosity wrote:
damn. not vigi.
okay but that gives cop free reign.
hey LS! Isn't there a possible framer in the setup? + they still might have this stupid canon. but I am soooooooooo flowering glad that he flipped scum. Means I don't have to go crazy over tinfoils. Game is somewhat solvable. LS: town rainbows, NOW! (shits town rainbows). Anyways I will catch up a little bit from between some of the readings I had done. Also Palmar kinda gave away Marv as town but I thought Marv would be town in a Marv vs Palmar scum vs town contest. Can you get the fuck out of the thread please
he is onegu's replacement rofl
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legit laughing rn, good stuff
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but its that shitty bad cop. meh. hopefully we have like 3 veterans.
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all of those things make me town though, that is basically my town meta in a nut shell. Still curious why you meta everyone else and then continually refuse to look at my past games, ive asked multiple times now for proof that I don't do these things as town.
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EPT
