EPTStar Wars: The Mafia Awaken - Page 3
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
I am also a bit worried Palmar might be mafia, I am detailing that section out now. In short I read 4 of his town games, read Outlaw. In short, his day 1 of this game so far, reflects outlaw day 1 (his filter through page 3 of his filter). There are a few other parallel points I want to draw as well. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
(1) Why are you townreading me? (2) Why is Damdred a leap of faith? | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On February 05 2016 14:06 MoosyDoosy wrote: leap of faith damdred. Go chezinu 3 justanothertownie 4 VayneAuthority 8 Onegu 9 Zyrre 13 Koshi 14 boxerfred Reason I asked was because "leap of faith" makes me think you aren't so confident. What's your basis? | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
ATM do not lynch list/town list (explanations if it's not already in my filter) JAT Damdred darthfoley (getting town feels from the filter) disformation (the host thing, lazy on my part, I know, even that aside, just different feels from Dark Tournament) ritoky boxerfred marvellosity Pure Policy Onegu (no read on him either way) MoosyDoosy (prior to the town read game - trolling is meh, much has been made of him possibly WIFOMing as scum. town meta is easily replicable as scum) Chezinu Chezinu - No idea how to read this guy just reading his filter. Never played with him. I get the "I don't give a fuck" vibe from him, and no one is scumreading him as I recall or screaming for his lynch, and I figure there must be a reason for that in this group of collectively experienced players. If this guy is mafia, I'm probably going to get there by process of elimination. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On February 05 2016 14:16 MoosyDoosy wrote: (1) You leap into game using convoluted af reasoning to explain shizz which is NM style of play. But tone read seems genuine which means ur trying to solve game. So town. (2) At this point, there is a small group of people I don't try to read due to heavy bias. One of them is Damdred. Seeing as ritoky picked disformation and Rels as townreads, I'm going to ask you this next question. Both disformation and Rels have both scumread me at points for not being able to follow my train of thought. What does this make you think of them? | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
Nooniansoong - I can't be sure. The policy lynching isn't outside of his town play (reference Newbie 18), post 664 and 716 give me competing reasons for both alignments. 664, he's drawn attention to himself as scum, 716 appears to me he's finding a way to avoid being scumread or some worry of his appearance. I understand the sentiment for policy, not playing but game, but I'd policy lynch only as a last resort. Key emphasis on last resort. A few things here would help me resolve his alignment Zyrre - alright, I'm under the impression he's relatively new but I don't know for certain. I think someone mentioned this earlier but with the exception of VA/myself, he's largely ignored some of the other things going on. ritoky scumread ignores his early game for example. I am - and so have others - issues with Palmar. The point on Damdred seems like it's just there (posting just to post), isolated amongst his complete gameplay. If he can talk about Palmar, Koshi or any of the other players not mentioned, it might help me get a better feel for him, agenda-wise. The caveat though is his experience. If post 135 is a true reflection of his experience I might need to consider re-adjusting my expectations but I think more interaction can resolve him. If not, then I would argue he's more likely to be scummy, but given the sheer number of people he's not touching fleshing him out is the way to go. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
VayneAuthority - I am going to do the same thing as I did with Rels and deliberately ignore any interactions with myself. Don't ever recall playing with this guy. But going through his filter, I am wondering if some of the little things are adding up here. - He calls Rels nitpitcky defending JAT. No conclusion on Rels one way or another. (post 508) - Then somewhere in the filter he says he's trying to improve my day 1....a bit interesting when JAT questions him on the named VT thing. He says he wants the lazy way out on day 1. - On that point, from VA, zero other town reads, or should I say zero town reads, period, and I am at present the only scum read. (The difference between him and Noon, for the people that say Noon has zero reads is that he's made a point of deliberately not trying to play, and VA is trying to play but I digress). This begs the question, should town proceed to mislynch me, where does he go from there? - speaking of which, he made a comment on using the named VT thing as a bait. But Rels asked me about this, (even if he said it was a reaction test of sorts after the fact) so here's my honest opinion on it. I am sceptical here that this is possibly (let alone exclusively) town - the objective should be to solve the game, thinking it through the greatest threat to mafia are the ones who try and do that. If they have blue abilities to get even more information, great. Just play the game and keep mafia guessing, no need to default/give them extra kp like that. Hypotehtical situation, say if for some reason other blues are NKed early because they are game-solvers/threats/etc (many reasons people can be shot). Say scum incorrectly blue read someone. Shot missed. Named VT claims subsequently. Just saying. Good play can narrow down the lynch pool for scum, and I don't think giving extra kp is the way to do it. Some people tend to solve better late game for instance. Just play the game and ignore mechanics for the purposes of that argument. - Marv calling out the reaction test and the purpose after the fact is another interesting point. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On February 05 2016 14:50 ritoky wrote: NM why did you not pick yourself in the game? and did you make anything of moosy picking you? ? I didn't pick myself because Moosy already picked me I thought? As for Moosy picking me I am trying to wrap my head around where he stands with the people who scumread me for not being logical especially as he didn't pick them. He's saying I'm town for using convoluted reasoning. Even ignoring that, he should remember the few games I've had with him - I want to say fullmetal, he was vigi and I'm pretty sure I was more logical in that game. I am trying to get a grasp on that townread. Newbie....12? 14? the one game where I saved Moosy from getting mislynched. I played very different from this game. Meta expectations I think might be off, but it's possible he may have just forgotten, since those games were a ways ago. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On February 05 2016 14:55 Damdred wrote: Its moosey though, its something he wouldn't pay attention to as town. Moosy has admitted in the past he'd wifom stuff as both alignments IIRC. I think he's capable of doing such as scum. I also feel his day 1 play can be easily replicated as scum. Therefore I am going to ferret him the old fashioned way especially as I have only 3 people out of a possible 4 I'm scumreading. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On February 05 2016 14:59 ritoky wrote: you could have picked yourself with your first pick, you chose marv. well I derped then. honestly had to go back and look. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On February 05 2016 15:11 MoosyDoosy wrote: I would honestly not take you ritoky. As adorable as you are, I prefer a Damdred leap of faith over you right now. Especially right now. Why? | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
And if you are sure he's scummy, describe the context of his overall play - does that change anything? | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On February 05 2016 15:13 MoosyDoosy wrote: something about reading disfo, and ritoky by extension, his push onto someone, and something else i forget. That's quite the non-answer for such emphasis and conviction sounding words. "I would honestly not take you ritoky." "Especially right now." As if something has to be jumping out at you to be so assertive about that. And that's your response? I'd have expected you to be more sure of the reasoning. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
So what is wrong with ritoky? You really haven't answered. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On February 05 2016 15:20 MoosyDoosy wrote: tbh i would normally engage you since it's actually fun and it's cool to see you think but i'm getting tired and it's late. xdddd meh, I've been up all night tbh for reasons beyond this game. whatever. good night. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
Palmar - read the following games for a compare/contrast: Tropical Storm, Down Under 3, Generic Boring. - In Generic Boring, he was dead wrong everywhere but he was assertive as all hell, was n1ed - Tropical Storm, looks like one right read, one wrong one (Damdred/rsoultin) but here, he goes pushing rsoultin on voting record, and is adamant he knew when to drop a townread on someone/knowing whom to sheep, not seeing that here. Important because a number of people in reading this thread are saying "game is hard" to some extent. They all can't be mafia. A cursory look through Palmar's filter - no strong town reads (i.e. I would sheep so and so) - Down Under 3 - Here, another example of one of his "absolutist" posts. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/490661-mini-mafia-down-under-3?page=52#1026 Checking OP, all but one of these are wrong. Note: I purposely ignored PYP because a) it was a themed game b) multiple mafia teams The big contrast for me is tone. I'm seeing a lot of conditionals in this game (i.e. bf might be mafia), and a lot of absolutes in the above three games. Like he's so sure of himself even when he's wrong. The one thing I notice is his main involvement with JAT/marv/Koshi - two of which I'm townreading. Leads into the big contrast is his normal meta of lynching the inactives, the scummy players, etc. I'm looking for a push or even a trifle of anything against the sheer number of lower content players or even (almost universally?) scumread/discussed myself. Nothing. From Tropical Storm - and I know he applied this in PYP On August 17 2015 01:18 Palmar wrote: Some Pálmar advice: Do NOT try to find someone playing an "amazing" scumgame. Lynch people who are inactive, don't contribute and in general do scummy shit. It's way too early for tinfoil hat theories. Finally I re-read his Outlaw Mafia filter for day 1 to refresh his day 1 scum play (go to his filter - read pages 1-3, day 1 ends at page 3) - and I'll be honest - his game so far here is a lot closer to his Day 1 play in Outlaw. I think people should read it - there's a lot of missing town tells that were present in the three games I discussed above. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
Disclaimer: I'm reading Nutcracker, a few of his other games, same base issue as the issues with Palmar. I'll flesh this a bit more fully out....when I wake up. With respect to this game, the two things that stand out: (1) His progression on ritoky On February 05 2016 03:26 NocturneMage wrote: So here's what is weird about Koshi. He's not elaborating initially on why he can't make a read on ritoky then he responds to ritoky that his posts are boring. (Generally that's a scummy trait - not to mention I disagree with Koshi's conclusion, because ritoky has been anything but boring, trying to push the discussion forward especially early this cycle.) At this point he should be scumreading (or at best nullreading - but the basis is extremely unclear) ritoky. In his filter and in this exchange (bf/ritoky) he tells ritoky's biggest pusher to "wait in the shadows"? And saying that ritoky "isn't the lynch"? where did that come from? This is the opposite of what I'd expect from someone who isn't impressed with ritoky - if someone is scumreading someone you are ambiguous on, where is the thought process coming from at the very least to say "wait in the shadows" when he's townreading bf (post 394). Nor is he even making any effort to figure out ritoky's alignment. It's just odd at best for someone who I understand is normally keen to solve the game or try. Like if I had to take that train of thought on ritoky alone I'd say it's hedging which is scummy. There's clearly evidence to the contrary, others have made reads on him both ways, including bf at latest. On February 05 2016 03:56 Koshi wrote: Pretty long winded way to ask my read on ritoky. But I forgive you: Could lynch, but not today. Response is of a double standard (why is bf town when he did the same thing) and long windedness isn't necessarily scum. Also I think it was JAT who mentioned meta. but I'm using his action in the game here to scumread him. Irrespective of what I think he "should" do, the quotes and responses stand on their own. (2) and on Damdred On February 05 2016 02:57 Koshi wrote: ritoky is Damdred mafia? On February 05 2016 03:04 Koshi wrote: Damdred his posts have been really bad. Holy mozes. Not even considering meta, this alone, there's no followup. There's no effort or response or a further push from this. Separately, I get the opposite impression here on Damdred but that aside, another observation is that I'm not seeing anyone else scumread Damdred AFAIK. Not my townreads, not really anyone else. At least not that I'm remembering. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On February 06 2016 01:09 nooniansoong wrote: 1 I don't expect zyrre to roll scum, then start thinking up mindgamey things to say about how great it feels to be town. Someone like ritoky would do this, someone liek zyrre wouldn't. 2 HIs read of ritoky is changing as he is reading. He's thinking deep about NM's argument. Guaranteed town. This is one of the reasons Zyrre should be in the 50/50 or "leave it to inv" category. The other reason he should also be in the 50/50 category is that there is soemthing in his "shitty" post that everyone is going on about. Yes, it's bad. Yes, marvellosity has drawn a comparison between the 2010 post and this one. But there's one thing that is worthy of consideration and that's lack of time. First sentence in Zyrre's post mentions he was (paraphrasing) pressed for time to play. The town perspective here is that if someone doesn't have much time to play their reads are not going to be so good - in fact their reads are not going to be good as either alignment, really - and whatever sticks out to them sticks out to them as they are reading. The "game is hard" argument (subsequent post) has been used by people from both alignments, and quite frankly he's not the only one to have said this. I still want to engage him if he's around through end of cycle. If he should be mafia, and he gets lynched (seeing as he's likely to be a competing wagon), we get possible information on his partners. If people aren't voting Koshi or VA, then Palmar is the way to go today. Again, as I skimmed through, whoever mentioned the lazy argument in his favour I'm not buying it. As I said for Moosy Doosy laziness/not playing is a meta/behaviour/whatever phrasing you want to use that is easily replicated. Also having played Dark Tournament, I understand Palmar is not a player who plays or is active on weekends. This is not alignment indicative - judge him on the output so far. And as such I'm voting him. | ||
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