Star Wars: The Mafia Awaken - Page 10

On February 05 2016 15:45 NocturneMage wrote:
Why I have a bad feeling Palmar could be mafia

Palmar - read the following games for a compare/contrast: Tropical Storm, Down Under 3, Generic Boring.

- In Generic Boring, he was dead wrong everywhere but he was assertive as all hell, was n1ed

- Tropical Storm, looks like one right read, one wrong one (Damdred/rsoultin) but here, he goes pushing rsoultin on voting record, and is adamant he knew when to drop a townread on someone/knowing whom to sheep, not seeing that here. Important because a number of people in reading this thread are saying "game is hard" to some extent. They all can't be mafia. A cursory look through Palmar's filter - no strong town reads (i.e. I would sheep so and so)

- Down Under 3 - Here, another example of one of his "absolutist" posts.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/490661-mini-mafia-down-under-3?page=52#1026

Checking OP, all but one of these are wrong.

Note: I purposely ignored PYP because a) it was a themed game b) multiple mafia teams

The big contrast for me is tone. I'm seeing a lot of conditionals in this game (i.e. bf might be mafia), and a lot of absolutes in the above three games. Like he's so sure of himself even when he's wrong. The one thing I notice is his main involvement with JAT/marv/Koshi - two of which I'm townreading. Leads into the big contrast is his normal meta of lynching the inactives, the scummy players, etc. I'm looking for a push or even a trifle of anything against the sheer number of lower content players or even (almost universally?) scumread/discussed myself. Nothing.

From Tropical Storm - and I know he applied this in PYP



Finally I re-read his Outlaw Mafia filter for day 1 to refresh his day 1 scum play (go to his filter - read pages 1-3, day 1 ends at page 3) - and I'll be honest - his game so far here is a lot closer to his Day 1 play in Outlaw. I think people should read it - there's a lot of missing town tells that were present in the three games I discussed above.

On February 06 2016 00:38 VayneAuthority wrote:
oh and ##vote: Palmar

He is supposed to be my day 1 antithesis, the pinnacle of good day 1 play. where is that here

On February 09 2016 22:41 boxerfred wrote:
So here is what happened D1:

Zyrre (8): darthfoley, nooniansoong, Chezinu, boxerfred, marvellosity, Koshi, justanothertownie, Palmar
Palmar (7): VayneAuthority, NocturneMage, Rels, disformation, Zyrre, ritoky, Damdred
justanothertownie (1): Palmar, Onegu
VayneAuthority (1): MoosyDoosy

Koshi is currently scum read by some persons. He went late Zyrre. He put his vote on Zyrre when it was 6-6 split between Palmar and Zyrre, and he does it rather late:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/503495-star-wars-the-mafia-awaken-voting-thread?page=3#48


Roughly 20 minutes before deadline. The situation we're in is that Palmar is on the very edge of being lynched. He is the Godfather, yet he is afk - a big scum role that can confuse town really hard (remember - Finncop works not like the standard cop!) would be a huge loss D1.

Koshi seems to not care too much for this game D1. His reads are meager, he's not pushing anyone too hard, he feels wishywashy. But then it comes to his vote: initially, he forgets the "##unvote", then he corrects it, writing his vote in the correct way. However, it doesn't seem to be enough for him:


Why is that so important, given that the previous post was absolutely correct? It's tiny, yep, and might not be alignment indicative, but I can see a nervous close-to-deadline-with-GF-close-to-being-lynched scum!Koshi acting nervous.


That would bring us to:

Zyrre (8): darthfoley, nooniansoong, Chezinu, boxerfred, marvellosity, Koshi, justanothertownie, Palmar
Palmar (7): VayneAuthority, NocturneMage, Rels, disformation, Zyrre, ritoky, Damdred
justanothertownie (1): Palmar, Onegu
VayneAuthority (1): MoosyDoosy

Chez' vote on Zyrre would also make sense as scum. He said EoD2 after the Palmar lynch that he originally wanted to see Palmar dead D1 already - but he didn't vote him.

marvellosity's switch feels weird to me but yeah...not gonna put the tinfoil hat back on again, he was the one to initiate the whole Palmar thingy.

Rels feels townie to me. He's active and eager to do stuff, but the biggest thing is his genuine reaction to the LS replacement. On second thought though I'm not sure if that really was an alignment indicative dumbtell. I'd take it as that if LS would flip red, I'd lock Rels as town then. But - I do not know about LS' alignment, so yeah. Head and heart tell me though that Rels is town.

disformation feels to me like he is playing a weak town game. He doesn't dare to push people, although he picks stuff every now and then. I wish he'd actually push some people, drop some committed reads, instead of just staying in his comfort zone. He's either a townie afraid to appear bad or a scum guy playing a very soft, careful game. His D1 felt very townie to me, but I think he got away with my town read too easy. However he ended up voting the Palmar train and went through with that - I don't think scum!disformation would have the guts for such a bus. So I'll paint him green here, too.

VayneAuthority's activity level feels similar to what I learnt of him in other games. Town lean at this point, but not enough to paint him green in the PoE-kind-of-VCA I'm currently doing here. I paint him green because he was early on the Palmar wagon and did not leave at any point. This is not a 100% town read - but I want to simplify things.

boxerfred is town, I know that. Gonna add the colours..

Zyrre (8): darthfoley, nooniansoong, Chezinu, boxerfred, marvellosity, Koshi, justanothertownie, Palmar
Palmar (7): VayneAuthority, NocturneMage, Rels, disformation, Zyrre, ritoky, Damdred
justanothertownie (1): Onegu
VayneAuthority (1): MoosyDoosy

nooniansong was scumread by me D1. I don't understand exactly why people like marv (?) started to townread him and I would really like to get an explanation on that from the guys who townread him. If he's scum, his vote was safe and sound on Zyrre. A solid no-risk-scum-play at D1.

darthfoley really dropped off in activity. At least that's how I feel like. I need to filter-dive here and I'm glad for anyone dropping reads on those two guys.

NocturneMage - can't drop a read, didn't look into yet. Gotta do this though to at least gain some impression. Only impression I have is from D1 where NM fought VA, and I'm not sure how to judge that.

Last, but not least:

MoosyDoosy. Voting outside both trains feels weird. But I think this is rather town indicative than scum indicative. The wagons were close, and the Zyrre lynch happened rather last minute. If he was scum with Palmar, I'm sure he'd have switched earlier - a last second switch would've put a bad light on him, especially given that there was no guarantee that Palmar would survive the night.

On February 04 2016 13:03 VayneAuthority wrote:
nocturnemage probably scum, that post is str8 up garbage. i have to check his past games I guess

On February 04 2016 13:31 VayneAuthority wrote:
well jokes aside I will give you space for now, apparently you are good as town so no reason to day 1 lynch you

On February 05 2016 00:22 VayneAuthority wrote:
you are really nitpicking rels, it is highly unlikely JAT is scum here.

can whoever is here look at nocturnemage? I cant believe he never posted again zZ

On February 08 2016 03:33 NocturneMage wrote:


There were a few things I didn't like about VA which I discussed, and he's not done much to show he's town (the lynch Palmar thing after the day 1 lynch where he's effectively claimed scum won't say much). Additionally, if Palmar is scum, his vote on Palmar is actually bad - it screams bus city for 3 reasons.

(1) it was inorganic
(2) it was well after concerns about Palmar had been expressed (pokes particularly by Marv early in the game I'm sure were before this)
(3) it was done at a time where he needed town cred (mafia motivation is to bus for cred), because at that time, only Damdred was townreading him, or heck it might have even been before that. ritoky and I were scumreading VA to some various degree, and I don't think most of this game had a read on VA when they were asked to eval VA v myself

VA prior to getting on Palmar's wagon was pushing me and when he couldn't do that, he dropped the scumread, Additionally when I pushed him further earlier on, he got very defensive. Quotes:





Especially the problem with the above is that the "sleep" explanation doesn't cover for his push on me earlier and his not mentioning Palmar at that time. It doesn't answer the concern in the least.

Now admittedly at this point in time, the vote thing is unflipped association, but if Palmar flips mafia, then he looks really bad despite voting Palmar.

On February 08 2016 03:40 VayneAuthority wrote:
dam dude you are even worse then I thought. Thinking I am lying about sleeping, that is really reaching. Especially when the reason for me being mafia would make you mafia by proxy, pretty faulty reasoning.

On February 09 2016 01:24 NocturneMage wrote:
Trfel told me something valuable in the Fullmetal postgame - it's not just the timing of your vote that counts - it's also the content and your involvement related to the vote. And on your (VA) end it was pretty minimal.

(1) There was no mention of Palmar anywhere in your filter prior to your vote. Marv had been probing Palmar quite a bit and voted 5 hours prior to your vote.
(2) AFAIK, you were not sheeping a townread or anything like that. The basis for your vote was unrelated to the interactions with marv/Palmar/etc.

Just because you voted before me doesn't make you any more townier.

To be fair, I could not play most of the first half of day 1, and because I was not present in thread with Palmar, I had to use different criteria to evaluate him (as opposed to my interactions, of course there were none). Even then my case on Palmar was roughly 3 hours before marv's vote on Palmar.

+ Show Spoiler [Focus on timestamps] +

That's the difference between my vote, and yours.

Even though I didn't place the vote until after yours, you had zero mention of Palmar contentwise.

On February 09 2016 01:36 VayneAuthority wrote:
Find me games where I am invested in the lynch as either alignment, its null. That's my playstyle and many people here can attest to that. Conveniently you use meta for everyone else but not me, funny that is.

Also you are putting words in my mouth, never said it makes me townie or anything. Literally could not care less about looking or being townie. I only play this game for one reason, to be right.

On February 08 2016 23:38 VayneAuthority wrote:



saving this post for later in my filter, suspicious and ill forget

On February 08 2016 03:46 VayneAuthority wrote:


1. you are tunneling

2. you are fabricating whatever your point is, the only way that explanation makes sense is if you think I was lying about sleeping. The only way I would be able to join in the palmar discussion was if i was in the thread at the time.

On February 09 2016 00:34 VayneAuthority wrote:
There was also the thing with NM where he says I am bussing palmar pre-emptively and at the same time paints me for things as scummy that would by proxy make him scummy! which is terrible hypocritical logic that is often used by scum.

On February 05 2016 00:38 VayneAuthority wrote:
interested in hearing people's thoughts on the named VT role. Should we have them claim here and lead the day 1 lynch, or should they just play as normal

On February 05 2016 00:42 VayneAuthority wrote:



well it would depend on who it is but gives a confirmed town basis. What is the cons?

On February 05 2016 02:12 VayneAuthority wrote:
I actually suggested the named VT thing with regards to the strongman shot, seems like good bait to have that killed rather then actually good role

and i thought i played 2 normals since I came back but I guess I only played unoriginal mafia by artanis marv.

On February 05 2016 02:23 VayneAuthority wrote:


nah my motivation was to generate discussion/see if anyone tried to paint me as scummy for it, didnt really work. Only good players on atm.

But I simply had that in my mind as an afterthought/clever play