• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:36
CET 23:36
KST 07:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy5ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises0Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool42Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block
Tourneys
World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Team League Season 10 KSL Week 87
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Soulkey's decision to leave C9 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ JaeDong's form before ASL [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [ASL21] Ro24 Group A [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
U4GM Tips Counter Enemy Gadgets Fast in Black Ops rsvsr How to Keep Reward Chains Rolling in Monopol u4gm What to Do First in MLB The Show 26 Spring
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1736 users

Newbie Student Mafia XIX - Page 6

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 16 Next All
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 17:14 GMT
#1147
I really like how Tumblewood gives _MexicanAlien town points for staying on his wagon instead of voting for town. As if voting for Tumblewood is more towny than voting for flipped town. Hm...

I hadn't thought about Ikidomari that way. I'll need to spend some more time trying to figure him out.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 17:26 GMT
#1148
On January 29 2016 13:19 Eden1892 wrote:
Also, I'm going to elaborate on what I mean by newer mafia tending to post in the way that Ikidomari did. I cited something from Ver's analysis of Mafia XXX in discussing his post, but I don't think anybody bothered to go read it. I suppose I can't blame you if you didn't bother to go look yourself, but now I'm posting it so you have no excuse.

+ Show Spoiler +

On August 26 2010 13:07 Ver wrote:



Day 1 Analysis:


Basically I'll point out the posts that are great for analysis, either finding reds or greens. In doing analysis most posts will be worthless, it's the gems you want to search for unless you want to do a full analysis profile on that person (dragging up all their posts and looking in context for patterns). That unfortunately takes a lot of time and thus can only be done on a few people at a time. Thus for those stretched on time, it's much easier to look for mistakes/bad posts and then do a thorough inspection of said person. That's how I'll present the red analysis.

Misder
:

Here is a great example of a mafia slipping up very obviously in day 1.

Show nested quote +
On August 06 2010 13:13 Misder wrote:
@Divenek I'll try to be as active as possible. I was better during the end of that last mafia game. At least I was right for my lynching targets

I'm not used to being active early game, so lets try this out. From my last two games, it seemed like we always tried to vote for inactives, except for the XXIII where town voted for a one liner mistake. We shouldn't do that. Because just because you make one mistake early doesn't mean you are mafia, just more likely. We should always be suspicious, but not impulsive. And the other game was where we had to vote for a mayor and a pardoner, so people had to talk.

As for strategies in the beginning... no idea. I'm still learning, (I still haven't done what you told me to do BC sorry!)


Show nested quote +
On August 06 2010 15:45 Misder wrote:
xD I'm sorry! I'll try to post better, but for me, it's hard to post in the beginning of the game...

Vote count is:
(3) Bill Murray
(1) Divinek
(1) Misder
(1) Chezinu
(1) Youngminii

On August 06 2010 14:40 larjarse wrote:
BillMurray, right after he got his two "random" votes against him wrote:

I proclaim the Random Voting Stage hereby dead.
I am voting not for randomness,


An obvious reason to stick with my vote.


This leaves my suspicions on BM. If everyone randomized, BM would be more likely to get a higher vote count (due to already having 2 votes on him). I'm not voting yet though; don't want to be impulsive...


These are two posts full of flagrant errors. This is the first easy mafia catch the town could've had; let's go through it:

-Note the multiple apologies, excuses, the specific mention that he is still learning, and overall meek tone. Newer mafia players will try to emphasize their inexperience as a way of overcompensating. Think about this from the angle of being a townie: why would you want to say all this? What's the point in painting yourself to be some noob who is useless and shouldn't be listened to? If you want to be of use to the town, apologizing a bunch and acting all sorry for doing nothing wrong is hardly going to make yourself listened to. In fact, it will make people ignore you instead. Someone who can't even convince themself is hardly going to convince anyone else. That would be great for a mafia who wants to hide though, wouldn't it?

On that angle it makes perfect sense from the mafia's perspective. You want to find reasons that make you look less suspicious without looking like you are trying too hard to do so. See how Misder isn't even suspicious before this but he's trying to make himself look less suspicious. That's entirely mafia rationale. A townie might want to defend himself if someone accuses him, but only a mafia feels inherently guilty and has a need, perhaps even a desire to defend himself before he's even a blip on anyone's radar. It's a very common pattern that I've seen many, many times.

[[Redacted from post; paragraph was a separate argument against Misder that is irrelevant to Ikidomari.]]

-Lastly, dock another point against Misder for his extremely mild statements about his suspicions and refusal to vote. Why would voting be impulsive?






Bolded for relevance. This is a very common tell for newer mafia players that's been generally true since the dawn of online mafia. You're welcome to disagree that these behaviors make him more likely than null to be mafia, or to think that this behavior is NAI, or what have you, but your opinion flies in the face of actual years of recorded evidence to the contrary.

In light of that, Trfel, I still do not understand what you struggle to see in my case, and I certainly do not understand why you felt the need to submit your concern with my case as this apparent grand enigma that makes you unable to understand what I'm doing this game. Such massive overstating of a simple difference of opinion as you "not being able to understand where [I'm] coming from this game," especially when I cite my publicly-viewable source of my tell for you to read, makes me suspicious of you -- you just look like you're trying to paint my argument as this completely unreasonable push and discredit my play this game for it, which sits very poorly with me.
Two separate issues. I tried to fix one through the other, evidently that didn't work.

Your read seems to be based on two main arguments:
  • Reads saying someone one alignment, but also saying why that read could be incorrect
  • Apologizing too much to be town
But you never actually stated the second reason (or if you did, I completely missed it). I saw the one-line reference to XXX Mafia, but I assumed that I was just supposed to see a lot of the first reason, which I know comes from town fairly often. Thus, I was questioning the validity of the argument, as I described.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 17:28 GMT
#1149
However, I do think that it's very strange that Ikidomari stopped making "reads with doubt" or whatever you choose to call it. I would expect that if this is the way he approaches the game, that he'd continue to post in the same way.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:13 GMT
#1156
Yeah, I've tried to say that.

Eden, you're really confusing me, I was much more okay with Ikidomari before his latest list post....

Anyway, are we so sure that PepperMintTea is town? I had a very strong town read early, but I worry that they have fallen off and have been in the background. Despite pointing out interesting things. I'll be filter diving.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:20 GMT
#1157
I guess it wasn't clear, the first sentence of my last post was meant to refer to Shapelog's comments on Tumblewood.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:34 GMT
#1162
I feel like its weird that PMT spends much of her early posting talking about townreads. Or often not even talking about townreads, but saying why other peoples scumreads are incorrect, without having a read on those people.

When PMT finally posts scumreads, they seem willing to lynch most anyone, including all suspects. This seems really strange given how aggressively PMT was shooting down non-definitive scumreads earlier. The exception to this is the scumread on Tumblewood, which was an original thought scumreading.

In regards to scumreads and the lynch, I feel that PMT has been very much in the background and non-influential. But the critical thinking is there, so I'm very unsure.

Thoughts?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:47 GMT
#1165
I'm on my phone. I can't do so.

The transition from townreads to scumreads is very pronounced. It's the post where PMT explains scumreads on four people iirc me, Onegu, Tumblewood, and JesusIncarnate. Before that are lots of talk about townreads and discounting other scum reads. After that it feels like a leaf in the wind, just going wherever with the scumreads and lynch. It's really weird that PMT doesn't discuss reasoning used to narrow down the lynch. Seems like PMT doesn't care to convince people about the lynch. Why did the reasoning stop? Maybe because everyone was townreading?

I don't know
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:49 GMT
#1166
Actually hm
PepperMintTea, please answer my statements when you get a chance.

A sensible and plausible explanation means that PepperMintTea is probably town. There should be an explanation for town.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:07 GMT
#1170
So I guess I'm at Tumblewood as definite mafia.

And the rest between Onegu, Ikidomari, and PepperMintTea, pending an explanation.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:19 GMT
#1176
Alur, is that what you meant to say?

Also it is generally agreed upon for town to continue scumhunting as normal during the night phase. The extra 24 hours is worth more than giving mafia more info for nightkills.

If mafia nightkills for wifom, it almost always doesn't pay off. So that isn't something to worry a lot about.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:21 GMT
#1178
Owait you're talking about mafia nks. I thought we were talking about reads. My bad.

Alur, mafia can shoot themselves. So Eden doesn't have to be town to get killsd.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:22 GMT
#1180
Yeah Shapelog I'd rather not go into that. I suggest talking to experienced players when you get a chance, there are many people who are better at nk analysis than I am. Nk analysis and voting analysis aren't my strengths.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:30 GMT
#1182
Shapelog, what do you think about PepperMintTea ?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:23 GMT
#1212
If I may, I don't think that this is productive.

Unoriginal Name Mini Mafia

Eden had a 9 page filter. The game ended early in Day 4. He was town.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:25 GMT
#1215
On January 30 2016 05:24 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2016 05:23 Trfel wrote:
If I may, I don't think that this is productive.

Unoriginal Name Mini Mafia

Eden had a 9 page filter. The game ended early in Day 4. He was town.



That is fine. He is still scum.
Please explain, other than activity/filter length, why are you scumreading Eden1892?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:48 GMT
#1225
Eden1892, do you really think that Onegu would push you here as mafia?

I kind of feel like Onegu, as mafia, wouldn't do something irrational like this or push "wildly". I don't feel like you're an easy target for mafia to push, so I'm not sure what Onegu's aim as mafia would be.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:52 GMT
#1228
I mean, I see why the rest of his play is mafia motivated and why it might come from mafia. I'm just having trouble with this part...
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:55 GMT
#1230
Onegu, initially you said that Eden1892's scumread of you didn't make him any alignment, it just made him bad.

Can you specifically state what happened that changed your mind? Did you see something different, or was it the continuation, or what?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 21:00 GMT
#1236
No, darn it, you're supposed to shoot me
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 21:04 GMT
#1239
If I may, I'm just curious, why Onegu?
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 16 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 24m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft187
elazer 117
SteadfastSC 78
Codebar 17
CosmosSc2 12
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 337
LancerX 20
Dota 2
monkeys_forever270
Counter-Strike
fl0m5182
Super Smash Bros
PPMD19
AZ_Axe13
Liquid`Ken8
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu391
Other Games
summit1g5743
Grubby3562
shahzam350
C9.Mang0147
ZombieGrub144
ToD111
Trikslyr46
UpATreeSC34
JuggernautJason10
deth5
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream31
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 166
• davetesta27
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Eskiya23 26
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1191
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
11h 24m
Afreeca Starleague
11h 24m
Soulkey vs Ample
JyJ vs sSak
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 11h
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
1d 12h
Replay Cast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
4 days
Platinum Heroes Events
4 days
BSL
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
5 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-22
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Proleague 2026-03-23
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.