• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:26
CET 04:26
KST 12:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced! What's the best tug of war? The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion How soO Began His ProGaming Dreams Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA)
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB SemiFinals - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] WB & LB Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread 12 Days of Starcraft The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1505 users

Newbie Student Mafia XIX - Page 6

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 16 Next All
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 17:14 GMT
#1147
I really like how Tumblewood gives _MexicanAlien town points for staying on his wagon instead of voting for town. As if voting for Tumblewood is more towny than voting for flipped town. Hm...

I hadn't thought about Ikidomari that way. I'll need to spend some more time trying to figure him out.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 17:26 GMT
#1148
On January 29 2016 13:19 Eden1892 wrote:
Also, I'm going to elaborate on what I mean by newer mafia tending to post in the way that Ikidomari did. I cited something from Ver's analysis of Mafia XXX in discussing his post, but I don't think anybody bothered to go read it. I suppose I can't blame you if you didn't bother to go look yourself, but now I'm posting it so you have no excuse.

+ Show Spoiler +

On August 26 2010 13:07 Ver wrote:



Day 1 Analysis:


Basically I'll point out the posts that are great for analysis, either finding reds or greens. In doing analysis most posts will be worthless, it's the gems you want to search for unless you want to do a full analysis profile on that person (dragging up all their posts and looking in context for patterns). That unfortunately takes a lot of time and thus can only be done on a few people at a time. Thus for those stretched on time, it's much easier to look for mistakes/bad posts and then do a thorough inspection of said person. That's how I'll present the red analysis.

Misder
:

Here is a great example of a mafia slipping up very obviously in day 1.

Show nested quote +
On August 06 2010 13:13 Misder wrote:
@Divenek I'll try to be as active as possible. I was better during the end of that last mafia game. At least I was right for my lynching targets

I'm not used to being active early game, so lets try this out. From my last two games, it seemed like we always tried to vote for inactives, except for the XXIII where town voted for a one liner mistake. We shouldn't do that. Because just because you make one mistake early doesn't mean you are mafia, just more likely. We should always be suspicious, but not impulsive. And the other game was where we had to vote for a mayor and a pardoner, so people had to talk.

As for strategies in the beginning... no idea. I'm still learning, (I still haven't done what you told me to do BC sorry!)


Show nested quote +
On August 06 2010 15:45 Misder wrote:
xD I'm sorry! I'll try to post better, but for me, it's hard to post in the beginning of the game...

Vote count is:
(3) Bill Murray
(1) Divinek
(1) Misder
(1) Chezinu
(1) Youngminii

On August 06 2010 14:40 larjarse wrote:
BillMurray, right after he got his two "random" votes against him wrote:

I proclaim the Random Voting Stage hereby dead.
I am voting not for randomness,


An obvious reason to stick with my vote.


This leaves my suspicions on BM. If everyone randomized, BM would be more likely to get a higher vote count (due to already having 2 votes on him). I'm not voting yet though; don't want to be impulsive...


These are two posts full of flagrant errors. This is the first easy mafia catch the town could've had; let's go through it:

-Note the multiple apologies, excuses, the specific mention that he is still learning, and overall meek tone. Newer mafia players will try to emphasize their inexperience as a way of overcompensating. Think about this from the angle of being a townie: why would you want to say all this? What's the point in painting yourself to be some noob who is useless and shouldn't be listened to? If you want to be of use to the town, apologizing a bunch and acting all sorry for doing nothing wrong is hardly going to make yourself listened to. In fact, it will make people ignore you instead. Someone who can't even convince themself is hardly going to convince anyone else. That would be great for a mafia who wants to hide though, wouldn't it?

On that angle it makes perfect sense from the mafia's perspective. You want to find reasons that make you look less suspicious without looking like you are trying too hard to do so. See how Misder isn't even suspicious before this but he's trying to make himself look less suspicious. That's entirely mafia rationale. A townie might want to defend himself if someone accuses him, but only a mafia feels inherently guilty and has a need, perhaps even a desire to defend himself before he's even a blip on anyone's radar. It's a very common pattern that I've seen many, many times.

[[Redacted from post; paragraph was a separate argument against Misder that is irrelevant to Ikidomari.]]

-Lastly, dock another point against Misder for his extremely mild statements about his suspicions and refusal to vote. Why would voting be impulsive?






Bolded for relevance. This is a very common tell for newer mafia players that's been generally true since the dawn of online mafia. You're welcome to disagree that these behaviors make him more likely than null to be mafia, or to think that this behavior is NAI, or what have you, but your opinion flies in the face of actual years of recorded evidence to the contrary.

In light of that, Trfel, I still do not understand what you struggle to see in my case, and I certainly do not understand why you felt the need to submit your concern with my case as this apparent grand enigma that makes you unable to understand what I'm doing this game. Such massive overstating of a simple difference of opinion as you "not being able to understand where [I'm] coming from this game," especially when I cite my publicly-viewable source of my tell for you to read, makes me suspicious of you -- you just look like you're trying to paint my argument as this completely unreasonable push and discredit my play this game for it, which sits very poorly with me.
Two separate issues. I tried to fix one through the other, evidently that didn't work.

Your read seems to be based on two main arguments:
  • Reads saying someone one alignment, but also saying why that read could be incorrect
  • Apologizing too much to be town
But you never actually stated the second reason (or if you did, I completely missed it). I saw the one-line reference to XXX Mafia, but I assumed that I was just supposed to see a lot of the first reason, which I know comes from town fairly often. Thus, I was questioning the validity of the argument, as I described.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 17:28 GMT
#1149
However, I do think that it's very strange that Ikidomari stopped making "reads with doubt" or whatever you choose to call it. I would expect that if this is the way he approaches the game, that he'd continue to post in the same way.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:13 GMT
#1156
Yeah, I've tried to say that.

Eden, you're really confusing me, I was much more okay with Ikidomari before his latest list post....

Anyway, are we so sure that PepperMintTea is town? I had a very strong town read early, but I worry that they have fallen off and have been in the background. Despite pointing out interesting things. I'll be filter diving.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:20 GMT
#1157
I guess it wasn't clear, the first sentence of my last post was meant to refer to Shapelog's comments on Tumblewood.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:34 GMT
#1162
I feel like its weird that PMT spends much of her early posting talking about townreads. Or often not even talking about townreads, but saying why other peoples scumreads are incorrect, without having a read on those people.

When PMT finally posts scumreads, they seem willing to lynch most anyone, including all suspects. This seems really strange given how aggressively PMT was shooting down non-definitive scumreads earlier. The exception to this is the scumread on Tumblewood, which was an original thought scumreading.

In regards to scumreads and the lynch, I feel that PMT has been very much in the background and non-influential. But the critical thinking is there, so I'm very unsure.

Thoughts?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:47 GMT
#1165
I'm on my phone. I can't do so.

The transition from townreads to scumreads is very pronounced. It's the post where PMT explains scumreads on four people iirc me, Onegu, Tumblewood, and JesusIncarnate. Before that are lots of talk about townreads and discounting other scum reads. After that it feels like a leaf in the wind, just going wherever with the scumreads and lynch. It's really weird that PMT doesn't discuss reasoning used to narrow down the lynch. Seems like PMT doesn't care to convince people about the lynch. Why did the reasoning stop? Maybe because everyone was townreading?

I don't know
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:49 GMT
#1166
Actually hm
PepperMintTea, please answer my statements when you get a chance.

A sensible and plausible explanation means that PepperMintTea is probably town. There should be an explanation for town.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:07 GMT
#1170
So I guess I'm at Tumblewood as definite mafia.

And the rest between Onegu, Ikidomari, and PepperMintTea, pending an explanation.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:19 GMT
#1176
Alur, is that what you meant to say?

Also it is generally agreed upon for town to continue scumhunting as normal during the night phase. The extra 24 hours is worth more than giving mafia more info for nightkills.

If mafia nightkills for wifom, it almost always doesn't pay off. So that isn't something to worry a lot about.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:21 GMT
#1178
Owait you're talking about mafia nks. I thought we were talking about reads. My bad.

Alur, mafia can shoot themselves. So Eden doesn't have to be town to get killsd.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:22 GMT
#1180
Yeah Shapelog I'd rather not go into that. I suggest talking to experienced players when you get a chance, there are many people who are better at nk analysis than I am. Nk analysis and voting analysis aren't my strengths.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:30 GMT
#1182
Shapelog, what do you think about PepperMintTea ?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:23 GMT
#1212
If I may, I don't think that this is productive.

Unoriginal Name Mini Mafia

Eden had a 9 page filter. The game ended early in Day 4. He was town.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:25 GMT
#1215
On January 30 2016 05:24 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2016 05:23 Trfel wrote:
If I may, I don't think that this is productive.

Unoriginal Name Mini Mafia

Eden had a 9 page filter. The game ended early in Day 4. He was town.



That is fine. He is still scum.
Please explain, other than activity/filter length, why are you scumreading Eden1892?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:48 GMT
#1225
Eden1892, do you really think that Onegu would push you here as mafia?

I kind of feel like Onegu, as mafia, wouldn't do something irrational like this or push "wildly". I don't feel like you're an easy target for mafia to push, so I'm not sure what Onegu's aim as mafia would be.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:52 GMT
#1228
I mean, I see why the rest of his play is mafia motivated and why it might come from mafia. I'm just having trouble with this part...
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:55 GMT
#1230
Onegu, initially you said that Eden1892's scumread of you didn't make him any alignment, it just made him bad.

Can you specifically state what happened that changed your mind? Did you see something different, or was it the continuation, or what?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 21:00 GMT
#1236
No, darn it, you're supposed to shoot me
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 21:04 GMT
#1239
If I may, I'm just curious, why Onegu?
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 16 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 34m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 232
RuFF_SC2 156
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 227
NaDa 85
GoRush 45
eros_byul 0
Dota 2
monkeys_forever318
LuMiX1
League of Legends
C9.Mang0344
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor121
Other Games
tarik_tv6174
summit1g5875
JimRising 542
ViBE161
XaKoH 116
Mew2King63
minikerr16
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1382
BasetradeTV50
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 6
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki20
• Pr0nogo 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21746
League of Legends
• Doublelift5725
• Stunt367
Other Games
• imaqtpie2595
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6h 34m
Krystianer vs Classic
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs Ryung
ByuN vs Nicoract
OSC
14h 34m
BSL 21
16h 34m
Cross vs Dewalt
Replay Cast
1d 5h
Wardi Open
1d 8h
OSC
2 days
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Krystianer
Spirit vs TBD
OSC
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
OSC
6 days
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W2
Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.