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Newbie Student Mafia XIX - Page 6

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 17:14 GMT
#1147
I really like how Tumblewood gives _MexicanAlien town points for staying on his wagon instead of voting for town. As if voting for Tumblewood is more towny than voting for flipped town. Hm...

I hadn't thought about Ikidomari that way. I'll need to spend some more time trying to figure him out.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 17:26 GMT
#1148
On January 29 2016 13:19 Eden1892 wrote:
Also, I'm going to elaborate on what I mean by newer mafia tending to post in the way that Ikidomari did. I cited something from Ver's analysis of Mafia XXX in discussing his post, but I don't think anybody bothered to go read it. I suppose I can't blame you if you didn't bother to go look yourself, but now I'm posting it so you have no excuse.

+ Show Spoiler +

On August 26 2010 13:07 Ver wrote:



Day 1 Analysis:


Basically I'll point out the posts that are great for analysis, either finding reds or greens. In doing analysis most posts will be worthless, it's the gems you want to search for unless you want to do a full analysis profile on that person (dragging up all their posts and looking in context for patterns). That unfortunately takes a lot of time and thus can only be done on a few people at a time. Thus for those stretched on time, it's much easier to look for mistakes/bad posts and then do a thorough inspection of said person. That's how I'll present the red analysis.

Misder
:

Here is a great example of a mafia slipping up very obviously in day 1.

Show nested quote +
On August 06 2010 13:13 Misder wrote:
@Divenek I'll try to be as active as possible. I was better during the end of that last mafia game. At least I was right for my lynching targets

I'm not used to being active early game, so lets try this out. From my last two games, it seemed like we always tried to vote for inactives, except for the XXIII where town voted for a one liner mistake. We shouldn't do that. Because just because you make one mistake early doesn't mean you are mafia, just more likely. We should always be suspicious, but not impulsive. And the other game was where we had to vote for a mayor and a pardoner, so people had to talk.

As for strategies in the beginning... no idea. I'm still learning, (I still haven't done what you told me to do BC sorry!)


Show nested quote +
On August 06 2010 15:45 Misder wrote:
xD I'm sorry! I'll try to post better, but for me, it's hard to post in the beginning of the game...

Vote count is:
(3) Bill Murray
(1) Divinek
(1) Misder
(1) Chezinu
(1) Youngminii

On August 06 2010 14:40 larjarse wrote:
BillMurray, right after he got his two "random" votes against him wrote:

I proclaim the Random Voting Stage hereby dead.
I am voting not for randomness,


An obvious reason to stick with my vote.


This leaves my suspicions on BM. If everyone randomized, BM would be more likely to get a higher vote count (due to already having 2 votes on him). I'm not voting yet though; don't want to be impulsive...


These are two posts full of flagrant errors. This is the first easy mafia catch the town could've had; let's go through it:

-Note the multiple apologies, excuses, the specific mention that he is still learning, and overall meek tone. Newer mafia players will try to emphasize their inexperience as a way of overcompensating. Think about this from the angle of being a townie: why would you want to say all this? What's the point in painting yourself to be some noob who is useless and shouldn't be listened to? If you want to be of use to the town, apologizing a bunch and acting all sorry for doing nothing wrong is hardly going to make yourself listened to. In fact, it will make people ignore you instead. Someone who can't even convince themself is hardly going to convince anyone else. That would be great for a mafia who wants to hide though, wouldn't it?

On that angle it makes perfect sense from the mafia's perspective. You want to find reasons that make you look less suspicious without looking like you are trying too hard to do so. See how Misder isn't even suspicious before this but he's trying to make himself look less suspicious. That's entirely mafia rationale. A townie might want to defend himself if someone accuses him, but only a mafia feels inherently guilty and has a need, perhaps even a desire to defend himself before he's even a blip on anyone's radar. It's a very common pattern that I've seen many, many times.

[[Redacted from post; paragraph was a separate argument against Misder that is irrelevant to Ikidomari.]]

-Lastly, dock another point against Misder for his extremely mild statements about his suspicions and refusal to vote. Why would voting be impulsive?






Bolded for relevance. This is a very common tell for newer mafia players that's been generally true since the dawn of online mafia. You're welcome to disagree that these behaviors make him more likely than null to be mafia, or to think that this behavior is NAI, or what have you, but your opinion flies in the face of actual years of recorded evidence to the contrary.

In light of that, Trfel, I still do not understand what you struggle to see in my case, and I certainly do not understand why you felt the need to submit your concern with my case as this apparent grand enigma that makes you unable to understand what I'm doing this game. Such massive overstating of a simple difference of opinion as you "not being able to understand where [I'm] coming from this game," especially when I cite my publicly-viewable source of my tell for you to read, makes me suspicious of you -- you just look like you're trying to paint my argument as this completely unreasonable push and discredit my play this game for it, which sits very poorly with me.
Two separate issues. I tried to fix one through the other, evidently that didn't work.

Your read seems to be based on two main arguments:
  • Reads saying someone one alignment, but also saying why that read could be incorrect
  • Apologizing too much to be town
But you never actually stated the second reason (or if you did, I completely missed it). I saw the one-line reference to XXX Mafia, but I assumed that I was just supposed to see a lot of the first reason, which I know comes from town fairly often. Thus, I was questioning the validity of the argument, as I described.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 17:28 GMT
#1149
However, I do think that it's very strange that Ikidomari stopped making "reads with doubt" or whatever you choose to call it. I would expect that if this is the way he approaches the game, that he'd continue to post in the same way.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:13 GMT
#1156
Yeah, I've tried to say that.

Eden, you're really confusing me, I was much more okay with Ikidomari before his latest list post....

Anyway, are we so sure that PepperMintTea is town? I had a very strong town read early, but I worry that they have fallen off and have been in the background. Despite pointing out interesting things. I'll be filter diving.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:20 GMT
#1157
I guess it wasn't clear, the first sentence of my last post was meant to refer to Shapelog's comments on Tumblewood.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:34 GMT
#1162
I feel like its weird that PMT spends much of her early posting talking about townreads. Or often not even talking about townreads, but saying why other peoples scumreads are incorrect, without having a read on those people.

When PMT finally posts scumreads, they seem willing to lynch most anyone, including all suspects. This seems really strange given how aggressively PMT was shooting down non-definitive scumreads earlier. The exception to this is the scumread on Tumblewood, which was an original thought scumreading.

In regards to scumreads and the lynch, I feel that PMT has been very much in the background and non-influential. But the critical thinking is there, so I'm very unsure.

Thoughts?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:47 GMT
#1165
I'm on my phone. I can't do so.

The transition from townreads to scumreads is very pronounced. It's the post where PMT explains scumreads on four people iirc me, Onegu, Tumblewood, and JesusIncarnate. Before that are lots of talk about townreads and discounting other scum reads. After that it feels like a leaf in the wind, just going wherever with the scumreads and lynch. It's really weird that PMT doesn't discuss reasoning used to narrow down the lynch. Seems like PMT doesn't care to convince people about the lynch. Why did the reasoning stop? Maybe because everyone was townreading?

I don't know
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 18:49 GMT
#1166
Actually hm
PepperMintTea, please answer my statements when you get a chance.

A sensible and plausible explanation means that PepperMintTea is probably town. There should be an explanation for town.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:07 GMT
#1170
So I guess I'm at Tumblewood as definite mafia.

And the rest between Onegu, Ikidomari, and PepperMintTea, pending an explanation.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:19 GMT
#1176
Alur, is that what you meant to say?

Also it is generally agreed upon for town to continue scumhunting as normal during the night phase. The extra 24 hours is worth more than giving mafia more info for nightkills.

If mafia nightkills for wifom, it almost always doesn't pay off. So that isn't something to worry a lot about.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:21 GMT
#1178
Owait you're talking about mafia nks. I thought we were talking about reads. My bad.

Alur, mafia can shoot themselves. So Eden doesn't have to be town to get killsd.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:22 GMT
#1180
Yeah Shapelog I'd rather not go into that. I suggest talking to experienced players when you get a chance, there are many people who are better at nk analysis than I am. Nk analysis and voting analysis aren't my strengths.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 19:30 GMT
#1182
Shapelog, what do you think about PepperMintTea ?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:23 GMT
#1212
If I may, I don't think that this is productive.

Unoriginal Name Mini Mafia

Eden had a 9 page filter. The game ended early in Day 4. He was town.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:25 GMT
#1215
On January 30 2016 05:24 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2016 05:23 Trfel wrote:
If I may, I don't think that this is productive.

Unoriginal Name Mini Mafia

Eden had a 9 page filter. The game ended early in Day 4. He was town.



That is fine. He is still scum.
Please explain, other than activity/filter length, why are you scumreading Eden1892?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:48 GMT
#1225
Eden1892, do you really think that Onegu would push you here as mafia?

I kind of feel like Onegu, as mafia, wouldn't do something irrational like this or push "wildly". I don't feel like you're an easy target for mafia to push, so I'm not sure what Onegu's aim as mafia would be.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:52 GMT
#1228
I mean, I see why the rest of his play is mafia motivated and why it might come from mafia. I'm just having trouble with this part...
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 20:55 GMT
#1230
Onegu, initially you said that Eden1892's scumread of you didn't make him any alignment, it just made him bad.

Can you specifically state what happened that changed your mind? Did you see something different, or was it the continuation, or what?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 21:00 GMT
#1236
No, darn it, you're supposed to shoot me
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 29 2016 21:04 GMT
#1239
If I may, I'm just curious, why Onegu?
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