EPT[M][I] Rayn's let's be nice invite mini mafia
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raynpelikoneet
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On January 08 2016 10:30 Ace wrote: /obs nice strategy already  On January 08 2016 12:42 ritoky wrote: pre-game notification: i have a broken wrist so my typing speed is greatly diminished atm which drops my activity by a notable amount. if that's a problem for rayn or the hosts you can feel free to sub me. no it's not a problem. You still post and vote. Usually more thinking - less posting results in more quality play tbh. | ||
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yeah i thought about the same. :D i am open for shadowing if anyone wants to. i'd prefer kitaman if i happen to roll mafia. + Show Spoiler + tbh i am proud to have figured out one of the best scumplayers i have ever seen on my first mafia game ever. <3 | ||
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On January 09 2016 00:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Everyone else is capitalized so so are you, deal with it  no they are not. 6. ritoky 11. justanothertownie 13. marvellosity pfff..... :p | ||
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On January 09 2016 00:22 Rels wrote: Do you know who is the smurf ? He's not a smurf. He's from Vendetta Strada. If he was a smurf why would you think i don't know who he is? | ||
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On January 10 2016 05:02 Keirathi wrote: Wow, Palmar playing and obsing at the same time. Too pro! Ace too! Best mafia strat 2016! | ||
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gl with the master thesis! | ||
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On January 14 2016 09:02 DoYouHas wrote: Howdy rayn, I rolled town, how about you? town | ||
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Hey, maybe it's two down! | ||
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On January 14 2016 09:18 DoYouHas wrote: I really wish the old scumtell of using smilies still held, because then it really would be two down. If you are Robik it can! He's been right on me (using smiley tells only) 50% of the time, 100% of the time. | ||
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On January 14 2016 09:21 Damdred wrote: Game would be easy if I knew rayns alignment. I don't understand? | ||
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I am gonna dream of fields of love and understanding. I need to check something tomorrow but Trfel is probably town. | ||
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I am not sure i can see where ritoky is coming from with his Trfel read. However i personally think this looks like Trfel's townplay for the simple reason that he focuses on finding townreads instead of scumreads -- i looked the last scumgame ritoky referred to (at least i think it was that game?) and what Trfel did there was, yes, aggressive, but it was basically a case on VE. I don't think Trfel's meta is that black and white (aggressive = mafia, which, unless i am mistaken ritoky is suggesting here). The last time i personally played with Trfel (when he was scum) he didn't play like in the game ritoky pointed out at all.. He seems to be the most involved person to get the game going and actually scumhunt, and that's why i think he is town. I don't even think "aggressive" is the right word here, "involved" would be more fitting. So yeah, Trfel is town. ritoky please, elaborate this. I also think the associative read on DYH is... meh.. I don't think there is much anything to say about other people. I think DYH's play is perfectly in range of his scumplay, and he hasn't really.. contributed much aside the Trfel read. Judging from his last coach QT he is a pretty good scumplayer and aware of his "meta" so i don't think Trfel's read is necessarily correct here, i just think the read tells more about Trfel than it does from DYH. Ace, one thing. I know your scumplay looks pretty much like your townplay because you like... ugh.. how to put it.. don't necessarily care about "how you look". I mean you don't take part in discussions you find "not relevant" but i have to disagree here with you; It's also the reason you look "scummy" when you are town, people get paranoid because they thing you are withholding information (like already seen to be said in this game). I don't think Cephiro's and Alot's posting makes them anything yet. | ||
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On January 14 2016 17:10 Xatalos wrote: DYH seems town so far... Basically it just feels like he's analyzing the game objectively. Not pushing any specific thought(s) or avoiding attention. Early credit grab If i made the posts DYH did would you consider me town? | ||
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On January 14 2016 17:26 Xatalos wrote: Not really... I use a different heuristic for you now anyway  Do you realize DYH is a really good scumplayer? | ||
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I don't have a read on one way or another on him, if that wasn't clear. | ||
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On January 14 2016 17:36 Xatalos wrote: He's actually the player I didn't immediately want to talk about earlier. I guess it's fine. It's just that I was reading his post in the player read diagram thread where he was sad that his play was so easy to read (basically "emotive at all? YES -> town, NO -> mafia" haha). When I looked at how he played this game, I didn't really see any significant emotion, but there were some really weak signs of emotion such as the "(XD)" at one point. It got me thinking that he could be mindful of his read diagram and try to include some sort of emotion forcefully. But then again, I realized that it was too early to judge him just based on a couple of posts. Now the usefulness of this thought process is probably more limited, since I already said it, but what do you think? I am conflicted on him since i kinda feel like i should have a read on him and i don't. If that makes sense... On the other hand i wanna townread him for his eagerness to trying to read me, on the other hand i think he is scummy because of this post: On January 14 2016 09:31 Damdred wrote: But seriously I don't really have a read any which way and I don't quite see what you are saying here yet if you are being serious ..or not really this post, but what he says after; After this Trfel makes his town case on DYH and i feel like Damdred (being a tone reader -- and Trfel actually contributing a reasonable amount) should have a read on him here. Some sort of a read, any sort. It's weird he doesn't. | ||
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Basically this is what i want you to answer VE: ![[image loading]](http://i63.tinypic.com/24cbg34.jpg) Y U do dis? | ||
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On January 14 2016 17:56 Xatalos wrote: One thing I wonder about is HF's ninja vote. says the dude who ninja-voted twice.. lastly on his null-read. | ||
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On January 14 2016 17:59 Xatalos wrote: Btw yeah, I forgot to mention this one. It really doesn't make much sense that scum would name their teammate as their first townread. It makes even less sense to suspect them as a scumteam just because of that happening. Rather it should be the opposite, usually. What? I don't understand anything you say here. | ||
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On January 14 2016 18:01 Xatalos wrote: To be fair, I voted you just because of Palmar's funny post. And I voted for Ace because he seemed the least willing to put forth any useful effort. Maybe some votes could pressure him into doing stuff. If not, well... There could be worse lynches. this too. Ace seems to be putting in effort but you are voting for him so he would put in effort? | ||
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On January 14 2016 18:04 Xatalos wrote: Referring to ritoky's post where he made the unflipped association case (and for a reason that wouldn't make it good even if it was flipped). "It really doesn't make much sense that scum would name their teammate as their first townread." what are you referring here? | ||
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oh right... i read "the = at" rofl | ||
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hmm.. it actually makes sense. Maybe ritoky is town too. | ||
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On January 14 2016 18:10 Xatalos wrote: How did you come to ritoky is town btw? I was really just saying that ritoky's post didn't make much sense... Wait what the fuck.. I did misunderstand what you were saying again? What i realized is that if ritoky is mafia, and Trfel is mafia, it doesn't make sense to scumread Trfel for what he did based on meta (which should not be the case anyways). So therefore i think they are not mafia together. It makes equally low amount of sense to associate Trfel and DYH ( (1) in case they are both town -- (2) or even if DYH is scum) because he is (1) either putting himself into a situation where he is "making enemies with two townies" for no real reason or (2) putting "suspicion" on scumbuddy over basically nothing. I think the town motivation here is stronger than the mafia one, actually i can't see mafia motivation at all. | ||
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raynpelikoneet wrote: ritoky please, elaborate this. I also think the associative read on DYH is... meh.. On January 14 2016 17:59 Xatalos wrote: Btw yeah, I forgot to mention this one. It really doesn't make much sense that scum would name their teammate as their first townread. It makes even less sense to suspect them as a scumteam just because of that happening. Rather it should be the opposite, usually. Since i apparently misunderstood what you were saying; walk me through this; You bolded that part in my post. You responded with the quote above. Who are you talking about in your quoted post if the conclusion is... I was really just saying that ritoky's post didn't make much sense... ?????? | ||
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I disagree with you. I don't think it's likely at all ritoky does that as mafia. | ||
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On January 14 2016 18:23 Xatalos wrote: Could you explain? I don't really follow either of those points :/ Sadly. I don't see why ritoky: 1).."makes enemies" with two townies 2)..does call his scumbuddy scum (yes he puts suspicion on DYH because if he is just gonna claim 100% associative read that's retarded and bullshit 100%) ..when he can just.. not to do that. | ||
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Because as scum you will definitely hold off making meta-cases, especially on your scumbuddies, that's just plain out dumb. | ||
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I am talking about this set of posts you made: + Show Spoiler + On January 14 2016 10:05 VisceraEyes wrote: This is......................not enough for me. I want alot more substance. On January 14 2016 10:06 VisceraEyes wrote: wtf -.- Fine I'll read the whole thread and THEN post. Now i am assuming you read the thread and however much (or few) attention you paid to the thread at that time you commented on posts you found interesting. So first is the Trfel's "scumread" on DYH. The problem i have here is that Palmar's post you quoted happened after the Trfel's townread post on DYH. Now it is natural that you comment on it, and it makes sense, what doesn't make sense is why you skip that post at first and comment on Palmar's post - - and only then come back to comment on it? | ||
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On January 14 2016 18:42 VisceraEyes wrote: It goes like this rayn. VE opens thread to latest post, it's close to the D1 post. VE reads some of the posts and gets to Trfel's post. VE posts about Trfel. After VE's post he goes to the CURRENT page and reads Palmar's post. Posts about it. Notices that further up is a post recanting Trfel's DYH read. VE posts about reading the thread and makes an exasperation emoji. Yes, those posts were made while reading the thread out of order. I HAVE NOT read the whole thread yet, only surrounding posts of Trfel's, and a few of ritoky's posts. okay. | ||
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On January 14 2016 18:42 Palmar wrote: I think Xatalos looks really good in this exchange and rayn really bad. You might wanna elaborate on that since we came to the same conclusion it seems like. | ||
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On January 14 2016 18:39 VisceraEyes wrote: This describes ritoky as either alignment as far as I'm aware. I disagree. | ||
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Do you actually mean the stuff you say or are just trolling? | ||
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No it's not, i literally will or would never ever intentionally conclude a post says the OPPOSITE it in fact does, which is what Palmar is saying here. That's just straight out retarded to assume so. The thing is, as i clearly explained, that i misread one word in Xatalos' post. That doesn't make me anything, except for misreading a word. | ||
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On January 14 2016 18:57 Palmar wrote: He misrepresented Xatalos by misrepresenting Ace???? Also how does this make sense? How did i "misrepresent Ace"? I didn't even talk about what Ace said -- i talked about what Xatalos' vote on him was based on. | ||
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On January 14 2016 18:47 Palmar wrote: This is pointless and frankly just wrong defense. clearly rayn is pushing an agenda here. And this is just straight out bullshit Palmar. If you are gonna claim this is "wrong" then point out why it is wrong and why me making "wrong conclusion" is scummy. You are just saying shit without any substance. | ||
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On January 14 2016 19:05 Palmar wrote: and with the wave of a wand a misrepresentation becomes a misreading. I am not a big fan of meta, but I recall you in multiple games being someone who doesn't think twice as mafia about subtly misrepresenting people if it pushes your agenda. The difference is that you rarely get caught. feel free to argue this if you want to.. | ||
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On January 14 2016 19:12 ritoky wrote: rayn you wanted the associative shit explained right? not really. I'd rather see you reconsider your read on Trfel based on what i said about his meta, since that's what your scumread on him is based on. | ||
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On January 14 2016 19:13 Xatalos wrote: Well I guess it's true that that's a pretty weak reason to townread ritoky... Is it still clearly an "agenda"? Would he stubbornly defend either his teammate or some random townie for no real benefit? No it isn't a weak reason. It's almost the same fucking reason i figured out Damdred was town in the last game, it stands true almost always. Because if ritoky is scum that is just bad scumplay. | ||
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On January 14 2016 19:18 Xatalos wrote: I don't think that's necessarily the case... Like I explained, there are reasons why it would benefit him to say that in either case. That's your conclusion. I disagree with it. Because i don't remember a similar case where i would have been wrong. | ||
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On January 14 2016 19:17 Palmar wrote: Actually, four different things. There is no way he thinks I'm mafia when I'm bringing up thoughtful, insightful analysis to the thread. It's original research that is creating a ton of useful discussion, and yet he thinks I'm mafia for it. I think people will soon be getting the grim picture this paints of rayn. See here again... Palmar says that that i am either mafia for calling his "thoughtful, insightful analysis" bullshit (which i have done), or if i agreed with him, well that would make me mafia too... It works in both ways! IT'S LIKE MAGIC! | ||
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On January 14 2016 19:22 Xatalos wrote: Do you really think Palmar is scum, rayn? Or did you just vote "out of spite"? haha yes i think he is scum. | ||
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On January 14 2016 19:24 Palmar wrote: You are blatantly misrepresenting my point. You can disagree with me, but you should not think I'm mafia (ie: vote) me because of it. Like this is probably the most obvious instance of you intentionally trying to deceive the thread. What I actually said: "Rayn should be calling me mafia even if he disagrees, because my points are good" What you're trying to convince people I said "Rayn shouldn't disagree with me, because my points are good". It's subtle, but it's 100% accurate. Nailed you scum That is not what i am saying at all. I am suggesting your points on me are just you making my posts fit your invented narrative instead of trying to figure out why i actually post the stuff that i do and why do i make the conclusions i do and from which side it does make sense. You just say half-arsed things like the townread is "wrong" without ever pointing out WHY you think it is wrong, or WHY does me being wrong make me mafia. I don't make "bullshit town cases" on people as mafia, you know that Palmar, you know that very well. Your suggestion that i am mafia -- and ritoky is town, is fucking absurd, because that's not how i play as scum. I would never make that read on town!ritoky if i was mafia, it just doesn't benefit me at all. Just for clarification, this is the read i made on Damdred i talked about earlier, in the last invite game: On December 12 2015 13:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: In a weird way this posy looks really really townie as it's... "Unclean"... Like i get where Damdred is coming from but if you really look at this post all it says is " greymist and dp are town in my opinion". Eell idk if he inclydes marv in the people whi have posted but i think he doesn't. Basically i would not think Damdred would word his thoughts like this if he was mafia since this wording is more likely to make enemies than saying "greymist and dp are town". Then you have your Xatalos post misrepresentation shit. That doesn't make any sense at all since first of all you didn't even read my further elaboration on it. When people pointed out you are actually approaching the situation with false premises, instead of taking this into account and re-thinking your stance on the original accusation -- you make a stretch on saying "well you did that first, now you are just covering up when it didn't fly" which is literally just bull-fucking-shit. IT is pretty fucking clear that's NOT what i did, nor is it anything i would EVER do. Furthermore you add "oh he also misrepresented Ace" which i have literally NEVER EVER done. And now, now you are saying i should conclude that your analysis are "thoughtful and insightful", and if i don't then i am ALSO mafia for that. No Palmar, your analysis are not thoughtful nor are they insightful. They are half-arsed and you are scum for it. | ||
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On January 14 2016 19:32 ritoky wrote: i do hear you about the looking for town versus pushing an agenda shit though rayn. also why are you defending me btw? last i remember your read on me wasn't particularly good on day 1, i figured you'd be more hesitant. I am giving out a read. I think you are town. I don't wanna lynch townies nor do i wanna consider townies as lynch targets. I'd rather talk about scum instead. | ||
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be back soon. | ||
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On January 14 2016 19:50 Xatalos wrote: As for rayn, it slightly disturbs me how he seems to come to conclusions with a somewhat flimsy basis. How can you say this when you AGREED WITH ME AT SOME POINT? | ||
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Again, the argument about Xatalos post is just bullshit and i don't care how he is going to try to push it. The argument about me thinking he is mafia is also bullshit since this is one of the two ways Palmar approaches me when he is scum. He makes it 1v1 and i am willing to take the challenge. I don't care if i get lynched. If i do, i will make sure the last hours of D1 is me finding every single bit of proof and explaining myself as clearly as possible why he is scum. | ||
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On January 14 2016 18:37 Xatalos wrote: I guess so... VE: I also didn't really like the things ritoky was pushing. It was just the way he posted that made me think he could be town after all. He was so bold and didn't really seem to care what others thought of him. Fits better with a town mindset. This is basically the same thing i said except you used different words... | ||
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If i prove this to be incorrect do you agree you are scum? | ||
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On January 14 2016 20:19 Palmar wrote: In fact, last game I was mafia with you I pocketed the hell out of you until I could shoot you: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/494010-completely-normal-generic-mini-mafia This is, yet again, you just making up things as we go. I know that very well, are you again not reading very well? On January 14 2016 20:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: The argument about me thinking he is mafia is also bullshit since this is one of the two ways Palmar approaches me when he is scum. He makes it 1v1 and i am willing to take the challenge. I don't care if i get lynched. If i do, i will make sure the last hours of D1 is me finding every single bit of proof and explaining myself as clearly as possible why he is scum. tsk tsk... I repeat my question, if i prove you have 1v1'd me as scum do you agree you are scum? | ||
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Thug Life Another game is the big game that started after XXX which for some reason is not in the database, where you attacked me straight up from the start of the game (we were even BOTH fucking mafia and i told you in scum QT there is nothing wrong with what i said). In both situations you failed to read the ACTUAL motivation behind my posts, and think behind the words. | ||
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In both situations you failed to read the ACTUAL motivation behind my posts, and think behind the words. | ||
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On January 14 2016 19:23 ritoky wrote: pretty much this is the read: i was mafia with trfel and town when he was mafia both recently. both times he came into the thread hot and focused on 1 particular issue in particular and got town reads because of it. in the most recent game where he was town he was much more mild and weak immediately upon entry. so from just that recent play perspective he is currently more mafia sided. the other reason i made the read is i basically made some bullshit read on him last game that misrepresented a lot of his play and was just a load of turd. he corrected me saying his meta as mafia is far more aggro particularly early, he came in immediately somewhat aggro so i wanted to call him mafia and see how he carries it as opposed to last game where i bs'd him. So do you still agree with your earlier read? Did you even look at my post where i disagree with you? | ||
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It's only a "narrative" if i can't prove it. | ||
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Rayn often makes completely insane cases on people (see XXX for example) when he's mafia. I also want an example of this. | ||
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This is not true, I was very clear from the beginning what I was saying, which is why VE immediately understood and actually compounded my arguments. Then what do you mean by this? | ||
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To be perfectly honest Palmar, i love to argue with you especially when i am almost definitely sure you are scum! So bring it on! Let's do the dance <3 | ||
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On January 14 2016 18:44 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean, have you ever read a game where ritoky gives a shit what anyone thinks? Xatalos did you agree with this or not? If you didn't, why aren't you investigating into this further? | ||
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I am not in a rush and Plammer is not the only scum in the game. | ||
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You should at least wait for the night in Europe before you make any judgements on him. | ||
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On January 14 2016 23:04 Xatalos wrote: Oh yes, my meta heuristic on rayn was actually initially right :D I just lost faith on the journey. I don't believe that was. But we'll see about that. I fucked up on something but never on anything Palmar said. | ||
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On January 14 2016 23:09 justanothertownie wrote: I was sure Palmar was at least partly trolling during all of this Oo Maybe, maybe not. I would have answered the same way as town and voted for him since there was actually nothing in what he said that made me mafia since he wasn't really thinking properly. | ||
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On January 14 2016 23:17 Palmar wrote: checkmate scum not for the reasons you pointed out though. | ||
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