Newbie Student Mafia XVIII

On December 19 2015 00:39 Fidei86 wrote:

People scared that my #streak of six games town without being mislynched is going to continue.

On December 29 2015 21:34 Fidei86 wrote:

Onegu claims VT in every game he plays, whether it's voice or forum. It is super NAI. Hopefully he'll be less useless than all the other games we have played together, but somehow I doubt it >>

On December 30 2015 23:27 Fidei86 wrote:
I have re-read the game from the start (yay no work!) and here is where my head is at at the moment. The reads are generally ordered from towniest to scummiest.

Town

Irishbound - I liked that from the outset he considered a wide range of players (see #408). Although I am null-y on Scott, it is hard to fault Irish's reasoning. Moreover, the fact that he has been on Scott for his posts, rather than some of the other low activity players (eg Onegu, Gigya) suggests that he's scum-hunting rather than looking for an easy out. Finally, I thought that his read on me was honest and the fact that he asked Alex for guidance (at #416) felt like a genuine cry for help.

Shapelog - I really, really don't like Shape's approach to posting. Spam posting like he does is a pretty effective mafia tactic to confuse the thread and dissuade people from reading their filter. HOWEVER, I note that he had more than a page of filter in pre-game. Moreover, his posting has struck me more as someone who wants to play the game and is impatient with everyone else (see eg #232). That, to me, is something that a relatively new player would find difficult to replicate as mafia. I also liked him criticising GB for giving him a town read at #302 - as mafia it's much easier just to take the read and pocket it rather than challenge it. Finally, his list post at #448 covered all the bases for a town list post for me.

The Cow - I am a sucker for people who post infrequently but give detailed reads and thoughts. His read on me seemed very genuine and is actually something I agree with, in that I struggle to condense my thoughts down as far as I would like, and I tend to focus on ephemera (tone, overall posting strategy) rather than digging down into the weeds of detail. I like that he comes in with strong reads on Scott and Kmatt, then follows them up with helpful questions. I think most people (myself included) have been giving Irish a free-pass so far, so it's very useful to have someone sense-checking that as well.

Null

Mderg - I like his pressuring on Noon/Kush as well regarding D1. Someone said in the thread earlier that they lynch scum 60% of games D1. I don't think it's that high for me, but mderg is right that a successful d1 lynch for town reaaaaally fucks scum. He has a couple of short posts that give interesting insight (eg #376), but generally he seems pretty focussed on pushing his kush / GB association without looking wider than that.

Alex/NM - Alex pointed out in an earlier post that my read on Scott was based on playing with him only as town. Fair enough. My reads on Alex are coloured by the same thing - we've been town together twice. He is doing his usual prodding / poking and asking lots of questions. One concern I have is that I see the progression for his Scott read, and his GB read seems to be foreshadowed at #391, but I'm not sure he really has given any particular read on Kush/Noon to date? I agree with the read, but I'm not sure how he got there.

GB - I have played with GB a fair few times before, but he plays differently every time and I usually rely on others to give a good read on him. Here, he has really given out town reads with very little supporting evidence (he 'liked' Alex's opening at (#195), when that was a JOKE OPENING!), and then placed a vote on Kmatt without explanation (#333). As an experienced player, this sort of high-read / low-analysis approach would be easily explained as either lazy/distracted town or mafia. Someone said that GB is in another game at the moment, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. There are definitely better lynches today.

Kmatt - The big red flag for me here is what others have already pointed out - he seems very reluctant to give reads. That is understandable for a new player in his first game (#383). He does make an interesting point on GB that I kinda agree with (#197 - GB trying to buddy up to the thread). I think there are a lot of better lynches than Kmatt, but he's definitely someone to look back at if he doesn't start firming things up through D2.

Scott - This is ugh. I think I'm actually better qualified than most people to read Scott, given that we've played three games together and I have given him a lot of attention in each. Yes, he and I have been town in each. HOWEVER, as I said before he has a number of different playstyles that seem to accord to how busy he is. And this is probably a mean thing to say, but I don't think he switches it up to keep his meta clean and I'm not sure he could. All that said, his content is totally garbage. He has had garbage content before as town. His read on Noon ("why would he TR me going against thread sentiment") is utterly idiotic, mostly because at that point there wasn't much thread sentiment against Scott AND because Noon's read was obviously weak. I don't want to jump straight onto Scott today because I think there are better lynches, and because (unlike others) he is very capable of coming back into the thread and being useful.

Scum

Gigya - He has a filter almost totally devoid of reads. His one TR is Irish (#214) but at the same time in his post at #192 he actually says that as Irish is experienced, the post could have been faked. ???. He also suspects GB for his "matter of fact town read", even though he agrees with it? The only thing keeping this from moving into policy is that he has a couple of posts where he talks about non-game stuff (#225, #228). If you have time to do that, you have time to play as well. This is how newbie mafia play, imo.

Noon/Kush - This whole filter makes me want to facepalm. He TRs Scott for saying he could "possibly jump" on someone else's read. WTF? I just don't understand this read at all - mafia are the ones who are going to hedge and give weak reads, not town. He then goes into a day-long "woe is me, D1 is so hard" stupor, which is (a) totally destructive to town, and (b) effective at hiding his thoughts on the game. Having said that, he then seems to basically mindlessly sheep GB onto his read onto Kmatt. I also don't follow his point about NM and KMatt whiteknighting, since a bunch of other people also came into the thread to say that timestamp analysis wasn't helpful. He then also prods a bunch of people into giving reads, despite the fact that he himself has given almost no content.

Policy

Onegu - Please all think of a world where we get to LYLO or LYLO-1 and Onegu still hasn't said anything, still hasn't been modkilled and still hasn't been lynched. He does this EVERY GAME HE PLAYS. And it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for town to win if it gets that far, because he is a total coin-flip and the easiest ML in the world. His content is totally absent.

I'm going to vote Gigya for now, but I'd consolidate onto Onegu or Kush if necessary later.

##Vote -- Gigya

On December 31 2015 00:53 Fidei86 wrote:
How many games have we lost because you've been a coin-flip until the end, and then you've been mislynched? And the sad thing is that in any of those games you could easily have been mafia as well. There's no way to tell because you don't post. You're more concerned about preserving your f'ing meta than you are actually helping to win the game and it drives me bananas.

If you actually want to help then give your thoughts on Scott/Noon/Gigya, or anything else really.

On December 29 2015 05:45 nooniansoong wrote:
When is this game starting though! I'm looking forward to it. I like playing with newbies like onegu.

On December 31 2015 03:12 GlowingBear wrote:


He usually does this to get towncred. My very first game with him he did it as scum. He defended me when I was getting scumread.

I actually have a good reason to call Onegu scum

On December 31 2015 03:15 nooniansoong wrote:


I think it was pretty obvious he meant if you are town you are an easy mislynch, which can fuck over town lategame.
Not that you are necessarily a mislynch this game.

On December 31 2015 03:35 GlowingBear wrote:
Cool I've finished catching up.

town
Fidei

NocturneMage

Irishbound
(the way these three are engaging the thread looks like townies trying to solve the game. They see posts, they react, they go after information to further investigate people's alignment)

Kush
(I've played games with kush before and as mafia he really doesn't care, and he seems to care here. He is here, he is commenting stuff. It's a read mostly based on meta, tho)

Shapelog
(my weakest townread. I think his excitement to play is genuine, but the way he is engaging the thread is a little more passive than I expect from a townie. His opinions aren't firm. So I think he is townie but I have an eye open regarding him)

Scott is null. I've made a promise to keep him alive for more than one day because he usually plays like this. Actually, those incongruences you've guys found in Scott's post could come from town Scott based on his previous games (I think Battle of the Drams is the one I'm thinking about, but I'm not really sure the name of the game I remember him playing like this as town)

TheCow is null because I have no idea what his posts are actually after, but I think the formatting is SO SO CUUUUTE

Kmatt I had him as mafia, then I reevaluated and thought he might be town (after talking to kush), then he voted me using a very poor reasoning to do so. He is null but very close to scum

mafia
mderg
(no original thoughts. the guy is just following the thread and rarely putting any original thoughts on the thread. Throw suspicions without going after it, like he did talking about me and kush avoiding each otherm and simply isn't caring for actually uncovering people's alignment)

Onegu
(Meta: he is too invested in the game) (Evidence: calls fidei out for a dumb reason as a scumslip, saying Fidei is mafia for saying Onegu is a mislynch. This is bad, but the greatest problem isn't that this is a bad reason to jump on someone. It's because one of Shapelog's first post was this [spoiler]

On December 29 2015 07:06 Shapelog wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 29 2015 07:05 scott31337 wrote:

On December 29 2015 07:04 nooniansoong wrote:

On December 29 2015 07:02 GlowingBear wrote:
I wanted to be blue so much

it's so anti-town to claim vt

I agree with the stone man here. Haven't you learned yet Bear?

He might need another mislynch......

[/spoiler] but he never suspects Shapelog for TMI - Too Much Insight)

On December 31 2015 04:13 GlowingBear wrote:


Do you know why that can't be true, Onegu? It's because that post from Shape is one of the first posts of the game, if you truly started reading the game you would see it.

Don't tell me you wouldn't read a one liner but would read that big ass post from Fidei

On December 31 2015 04:41 Fidei86 wrote:
And yes, I'm keeping Onegu in there because coming into the thread, admitting you haven't read one of your scum reads and then continuing to push me HAVING PREVIOUSLY BEEN ESSENTIALLY JOKE VOTING FOR ME is in no way a townie progression.

On December 31 2015 05:05 nooniansoong wrote:

dude onegu stay strong on our wagon. wouldn't you rather lynch fidei?

On December 31 2015 05:06 mderg wrote:

A wise man (might have been Palmar but I'm not sure) once said that scumslips don't actually exist in forum mafia. So I'm inclined to not believe there actually was a scumslip.

With that being said, time to catch up.

On December 31 2015 06:21 NocturneMage wrote:


Can you differentiate what makes Irish scum for wanting you dead? I think both of us had similar grounds for your lynch. (You are townreading me.)

Was there a specific quote/case that jumped out as scummy?

I don't generally trust meta reads....can someone verify if Onegu does the VT claim thing as mafia?

Onegu was pure policy when I last afked. In skimming just now, aside from Fidei, he seemed to have a scumlean on GB, which looked reasonable to me given the non-engagement issues I had with him when I afked.

On December 31 2015 07:14 NocturneMage wrote:
We have a result of 6-3-1-1.

I'd say most likely 2 mafia on the Scott wagon.

On December 31 2015 04:11 Onegu wrote:
Also meta doesnt work on me GB you have played with me long enough to know this. I purposely change how I play both alignments periodically so I cant be meta read. And the fact that you are trying to meta read me is complete garbage.

On December 31 2015 23:57 GlowingBear wrote:


Yes I beliebe he is lying. it's one of the first posts in the game. He can decide to not read him after some time but I doubt he didn't read the very first posts of everyone if he really started to read the thread.

Anyway, after I quoted it, Onegu just called the guy Mafia but quickly forgets about him

On January 01 2016 02:53 GlowingBear wrote:


The fact that you used THIS defence just makes me feel more confident in this scum read on you.

Keep digging your grave

On January 03 2016 01:45 mderg wrote:

Koshi is always town. He's not in this game, though.

On January 03 2016 04:16 nooniansoong wrote:
His scumread of fidei is disproportionate to the reasoning behind it.
I need to learn to consolidate my posts sry

On January 03 2016 05:11 mderg wrote:

I still don't think that is a scumslip

On January 03 2016 06:00 nooniansoong wrote:
Onegu why not respond me mee

On January 03 2016 23:09 mderg wrote:

I would rather say his play is too dumb to scum. That goes in a similar direction, though.

On January 04 2016 06:56 The Shining wrote:
Basically OMGUSing GBs metaread and mentioning "small things"

But its all so Onegu-centric.

On January 07 2016 07:08 NocturneMage wrote:
Also Onegu, why do you call Fidei F-word dude for real? I can only imagine what comms are like when you two play dota together.

(Speaking of which, I mislynched two dota players, woohoo!)

On January 08 2016 06:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:

idk.. From what i know he voted at the last minute(s) of the day phase(?) when the vote was already 5-3 or something. In other words, purely from the vote's perspective the vote doesn't matter at all regardless of his alignment, so imo you can't tell anything about it. Sure you could probably go into his reasoning for changing his vote but i guess that could be explained with some "i came back and i saw i was the counter-wagon so as i know i am town ofc i am gonna vote for my counter-wagon...." stuff that is in itself not scummy.

Yeah but if your filter consists of "pushing Fidei" with only saying "he scumslipped" over and over again that doesn't really qualify as pushing someone.... It is just mindlessly yelling something people are never gonna believe.

On January 07 2016 14:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would like to know the following though:

This is the final votecount from D1.
Onegu and kush (mainly, and also the townies on scott), why did you decide that Fidei is not mafia on D2?
There was never any serious push on anyone except for Glowingbear/Onegu on D2, what suddenly changed?
Like you guys had at least a semi-serious counterwagon for the D1 lynch and imo Fidei didn't really do anything particularly townie during the night.

(when someone has 2 scumreads in a game where there is 3 mafia, it is extremely unlike they have, at the same time five null reads -- unless they are scum)

On January 02 2016 23:50 Onegu wrote:
Clap for wall of text. Fword dude is mafia so is gb. Happy to vote either of them today.

##Vote GB

On January 03 2016 00:50 Onegu wrote:
GB not deciding to defend himself just saying it is a town case from kmatt is really telling.

And yes I will be tunneled on to fword dude and GB until they are dead, I am dead or it is lylo then I will reevaluate in lylo. Tunnel for now.

On January 03 2016 05:03 Onegu wrote:



Why is this?

That is 100% a scumslip.

On January 04 2016 06:08 Onegu wrote:
Not suprised Fword dude confirmed scum was a auto vote on me.

On January 09 2016 08:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I can find around 10 games of myself doing the same, or writing scum instead of town or vice versa or something similar -- as town. So there is that.

On January 09 2016 03:04 Half the Sky wrote:
Welcome back Shapelog, I hope you are well.

James, I think I'm just going to say something to you I've always said, and ritoky and a few others say, mafia is a team game. Everyone has to play their role and work with each other. You lot strategised very well, and as Mage even said in the qt itself, disruption was needed in mylo and you ran it very well.

Don't sell yourself short. <3

Even if you were bussed, it would have appeared that a plan was behind it and associative reads were being made away from your teammates.

Not everyone can "carry" town or mafia. Even DYH told you in that qt you need to aim for different objectives to disassociate and you did what was needed.

On January 09 2016 15:24 geript wrote:

Hard carries can hard carry a game and use their influence to push through lynches. You didn't seem to even garner votes to your cause.