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On January 06 2016 09:41 Fecalfeast wrote:
The main reason i had him as scum was he stayed on onegu while his scumread gigyas voted onegu too. The timing means gb had little time to move if any at all so my reason for scumming hin is invalid
Ah gotcha. Wasn't sure if I was misunderstanding something with voting analysis.
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It's scummy if it's out of context, what I will need to do is to read the cited posts in context and to see where his direction is.
Part of the issue jumping in there and saying its chainsaw defence is that mderg and GB honestly have been scumming each other all game, and you can't argue that them scumreading each other HASN'T been central to how the other has played.
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I can understand the Fidei/GB connection as he has been defending GB all game though, but that's pre-flip.
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mderg said the second point was factually inaccurate so I'll start there.
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Alright, that second point is bad. Wow.
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First point is phrased weird, but mderg's explanation makes sense. Second point about the cherry picking is really bad.
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And third point is also really bad (out of context) because he stated that he couldn't be back before deadline. So that is actually not alignment indicative. So you can definitely make the argument once you read in for context, that Fidei is taking something that isn't alignment indicative and making it so.
Fourth point is subjective but we already have half the case shot so...
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On January 06 2016 09:58 nooniansoong wrote:
so guess it's fidei, oo, gb.
well played fidei this scumgame was actually a lot better than your last one.
But that case against mderg is so scummy lol.
Dumb question, but who's OO?
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I mean there's an OO in a certain ongoing game that we're both in, but he's not in here?
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On January 06 2016 21:10 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 10:08 NocturneMage wrote:
Alright, that second point is bad. Wow. I just don't understand this pov. GB said that he thought there was something to be gained by looking at Irish's scum reads. GB then accurately recited Irish's scum reads. Mderg then basically said that GB had done so in a misleading way. But mderg didn't follow up that point by saying "oh yeah you actually can tell something from the other reads Irish had". It isn't like he was trying to make a nuanced argument based on that point, he just shit on GB fullstop. And even if he had, it doesn't matter anyway because GB wasn't purporting to talk about all of Irish's reads in the first place. To me, that is mderg trying to scum GB for bad reasons, at best. And that is following on from his GB read which honestly has made no sense to me the entire game.
It wasn't the recitation of the scum reads that was a problem, it was how it was being used. I had the same problem. You're confusing use with intention. It wasn't confirming the scumreads, it was what he did with the Irish scumreads.
Those are two separate points.
And GB not purporting to talk.....he didn't need to.
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GB in that argument said he was "confident" (paraphrasing) mderg was scum and made a previous argument on Onegu (now flipped town) that he is stating something that he cannot possibly believe in. This is a mafia indicative assertion.
The argument against GigyaS at that time was NK WIFOM.
In stating his scumreads GB votes GigyaS from the off when he had two reads with - in his view - stronger basis.
Why is what mderg did unfathomable/unbelievable/impossible/whatever word you want from a town perspective?
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Separate point - these comments were made at GB.
On December 31 2015 04:11 Onegu wrote:
Also meta doesnt work on me GB you have played with me long enough to know this. I purposely change how I play both alignments periodically so I cant be meta read. And the fact that you are trying to meta read me is complete garbage.
On January 03 2016 00:50 Onegu wrote:
GB not deciding to defend himself just saying it is a town case from kmatt is really telling.
And yes I will be tunneled on to fword dude and GB until they are dead, I am dead or it is lylo then I will reevaluate in lylo. Tunnel for now.
We know Onegu's flipped green, so at the very least these are honest. On the first one, I trust that players know their own meta and own methods of solving the game.
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I think a common theme of all the scumreads on mderg - not just Fidei's tbh - is that he plays too passive whereas mderg argues that's his base style.
I'm going to hit the database, read 4 games, 2 town/2 scum and see for myself.
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On January 06 2016 22:28 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 01:04 mderg wrote:On January 03 2016 00:58 GlowingBear wrote:On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote:On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote:
There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first. I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play. ##vote GB His other reads were town reads dude, why would I take that into consideration when deciding who to lynch now? Rofl What you're doing is basically taking a look at a list with his reads and taking the one that's most convenient for you. Phone posting so can't consolidate, but this is his second post. Will post third in one sec.
See 1162. That's what I am trying to counter.
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Okay, let me phrase this a different way then. Because somewhere along the way something isn't getting through here.
GB "thinks" Noon is town and PoEs GigyaS from that list of reads and IN THE SAME POST lists reasons for his prior scumreads on Onegu and mderg.
Those assertions were made in the same post. So how is mderg's assertion that "not giving it any further thought" invalid? How is that scummy?
If GB had given it "thought" he would have picked a read that he had a stronger basis for a scumread.
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Reading World Cup Mafia (mislynched day 2), Storm Mafia 2 (mislynched day 2), and New Year's Party Mafia (endgamed night 4) filters for mderg.
All three town games.
WC, a lot of defending and debunking of scumreads. That pattern is similar to here. Does not push any scumreads hard.
Storm, I'm not seeing pushes at all, and town play is pretty passive in that game.
New Year's Party Mafia, push on liancourt is limited to a few quotes. Does show a bit more towniness in lylo when he tries to analyse the remaining players.
So after reading these games I don't see the current town game terribly outside the bounds of his town play. Lot of one-liners in those games too.
Moving to the scumgames.
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On January 06 2016 23:20 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 22:13 NocturneMage wrote:
GB in that argument said he was "confident" (paraphrasing) mderg was scum and made a previous argument on Onegu (now flipped town) that he is stating something that he cannot possibly believe in. This is a mafia indicative assertion.
The argument against GigyaS at that time was NK WIFOM.
In stating his scumreads GB votes GigyaS from the off when he had two reads with - in his view - stronger basis.
Why is what mderg did unfathomable/unbelievable/impossible/whatever word you want from a town perspective? Why the Bolded is a Mafia indicative assertion? Explain to me how that assertion can't come from a town and why that assertion is a consequence of a scum mindset.
You misunderstood.
I'm not saying that was mafia indicative for you. You are making an assertion on Onegu that he cannot believe what he is possibly saying. The argument you are making on Onegu is a mafia indicative assertion on Onegu.
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On January 06 2016 23:23 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 22:18 NocturneMage wrote:Separate point - these comments were made at GB. On December 31 2015 04:11 Onegu wrote:
Also meta doesnt work on me GB you have played with me long enough to know this. I purposely change how I play both alignments periodically so I cant be meta read. And the fact that you are trying to meta read me is complete garbage. On January 03 2016 00:50 Onegu wrote:
GB not deciding to defend himself just saying it is a town case from kmatt is really telling.
And yes I will be tunneled on to fword dude and GB until they are dead, I am dead or it is lylo then I will reevaluate in lylo. Tunnel for now. We know Onegu's flipped green, so at the very least these are honest. On the first one, I trust that players know their own meta and own methods of solving the game. ROFL now you're just full of shit. So now that Onegu is town his "meta" on me is accurate? Give me a break m
No, this statement does not indicate he's metaing you. He's arguing that people should not meta him.
Those are two separate points.
The argument is not YOUR meta.
The statement is what YOU are doing about HIS meta.
What Onegu's flip does do here is show that his interpretion of his own reads on people is accurate.
The reason I brought that up was because I also want other people who know Onegu better to discuss this.
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On January 06 2016 23:14 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 22:08 NocturneMage wrote:On January 06 2016 21:10 Fidei86 wrote:On January 06 2016 10:08 NocturneMage wrote:
Alright, that second point is bad. Wow. I just don't understand this pov. GB said that he thought there was something to be gained by looking at Irish's scum reads. GB then accurately recited Irish's scum reads. Mderg then basically said that GB had done so in a misleading way. But mderg didn't follow up that point by saying "oh yeah you actually can tell something from the other reads Irish had". It isn't like he was trying to make a nuanced argument based on that point, he just shit on GB fullstop. And even if he had, it doesn't matter anyway because GB wasn't purporting to talk about all of Irish's reads in the first place. To me, that is mderg trying to scum GB for bad reasons, at best. And that is following on from his GB read which honestly has made no sense to me the entire game. It wasn't the recitation of the scum reads that was a problem, it was how it was being used. I had the same problem. You're confusing use with intention. It wasn't confirming the scumreads, it was what he did with the Irish scumreads. Those are two separate points. And GB not purporting to talk.....he didn't need to. What did I do that was wrong? Why do townies get shot, NM?
Townies get shot for a few reasons. Blue hunting, impossible to mislynch, accuracy of reads are the top three I can think of.
If you are town, you cannot know why mafia shot Irishbound. The Irishbound kill was a night 1 kill. You looked at his reads. Fine.
By your own standards you admitted that your mderg read for whatever reason was stronger. By your own standards you made an argument on Onegu that he is saying something he couldn't possibly believe in (which again, to clarify, is mafia indicative for Onegu, not you). So the argument here is that your vote on GigyaS is misplaced and I'm also ignoring the fact that you read kush as town, because kush was mentioned in those reads and the same argument could be made even if you did scumread kush).
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On January 06 2016 23:35 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 23:24 NocturneMage wrote:On January 06 2016 23:20 GlowingBear wrote:On January 06 2016 22:13 NocturneMage wrote:
GB in that argument said he was "confident" (paraphrasing) mderg was scum and made a previous argument on Onegu (now flipped town) that he is stating something that he cannot possibly believe in. This is a mafia indicative assertion.
The argument against GigyaS at that time was NK WIFOM.
In stating his scumreads GB votes GigyaS from the off when he had two reads with - in his view - stronger basis.
Why is what mderg did unfathomable/unbelievable/impossible/whatever word you want from a town perspective? Why the Bolded is a Mafia indicative assertion? Explain to me how that assertion can't come from a town and why that assertion is a consequence of a scum mindset. You misunderstood. I'm not saying that was mafia indicative for you. You are making an assertion on Onegu that he cannot believe what he is possibly saying. The argument you are making on Onegu is a mafia indicative assertion on Onegu. Ok, so?
That comment was in response to Fidei, how it relates to you is in my previous post.
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EPT
