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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
(1) mderg is town for the manner in which he went after you at latest. However, there are other parts of his filter that are 50/50 which I conceded in my filter walkthrough. (2) If I had to give a scumread on Fidei, he would be scum for not getting back to my questions, but I did see where earlier posts could be towny. (3) GigyaS right now is a coinflip. Couple of towny posts for a lean early on, but I'm still trying to grasp end of day 2 and where his mind is on previous scumreads. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On (1) I know Noon and I disagreed on how organic/obvious/predatory/whatever word you want to use the argument made against you. I'm going to chalk this up to the gap in experience - where such an argument might be because he's much more experienced than I am. To me making that argument wouldn't be obvious without double checking filters. mderg is an experienced player so if Noon's arguing that his argument against mderg is a low-ball argument for someone of his calibre (???) to make against you, then that's a different story. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 05 2016 01:05 nooniansoong wrote: NM it's not that it's a lowball argument. I looked at it and thought the same thing: "wow what a bad reason to scumread/vote someone" But it's so obvious that mafia can think of it easily. On January 05 2016 01:07 nooniansoong wrote: clarification: I thought GB's reasoning was bad. Mderg's reasoning for scumreading that post wasn't bad but it's too easy to get townpoints for. On January 05 2016 01:24 mderg wrote: That's not wrong BUT is there anything I get scumpoints for? Seriously, both you and GB have been scumreading me for like 5 rl days without giving any proper explanation for it but for some reason want the others to prove that I'm town. That's so fucking stupid I can't even believe it. I had to read this exchange a few times to understand but now I finally understand why mderg has I think a valid concern here. Noon, you agreed that mderg's reasoning to scum GB at least made sense - from context "wow what a bad reason to scumread/vote someone". But mderg is saying that your reasoning to say that it's obvious that mafia can think of this (Now I finally understand why Noon, you are not giving him townpoints for this. I disagree, but I digress.) - he doesn't dispute this (third quote). But what may be a problem here is that from his eyes, you are characterising his play as exclusively scummy, or taking what can be seen as town play and seeing it from a mafia standpoint. To frame it as such and exclusively, that, can be mafia indicative. mderg - (1) is my understanding of the problem correct? (2) when I went to Noon's original concern on you he said you were playing passively, a little too passively for town. I am not familiar with you. How would you describe your towngame? (3) how often have you played with Noon? Is it enough where he should be familiar enough with your towngame? | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 05 2016 01:12 nooniansoong wrote: Could be scum: 1) Kmatt 2) Shapelog replaced by FecalFeast 3) TheCow replaced by The Shining 5) GiygaS 7) Fidei86 8) mderg Scumteam?: FF Fidei mderg ~~~ Gigyas did something that seemed town to me. I'd have to find it again though. ~~~ I realise Shining didn't make the cut here for final scum team and atm I don't remember what your read on Cow was early game, but why "could" Shining be scum? What was your thinking? Shining's approach to end of cycle looked town to me because when I re-read end of cycle, he brought a new perspective (vote analysis) to how he tried to crack the two wagons. This is similar to how he used vote analysis/behaviour to solve the game altogether in Dark Tournament. Was he wrong? Yes. Was he maliciously wrong? Doubt it. 892, 896, 898 look quite towny to me. He's trying to match his votes to sentiment through his filter on GB and does the same thing trying to ferret Noon's alignment (post 922). The ONLY possible concern with Shining is post 965, but that's such subjective meta I feel it pales in comparison to how Shining's come out so far in trying to solve this game. If Fecalfeast feels Shining could be mafia based on that (don't recall him saying anything) then let's hear it but otherwise I don't think it's concerning. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
(1) you have a new player not familiar with scott or TL for that matter scumreading scott under his own set of criteria and then (2) you have Fidei who knows Scott and uses his own knowledge of Scott (see null list) to read him. Furthermore Fidei uses other criteria to townread Irish. The question should be, what read/approach should make sense for Irish given his background and knowledge of the players and I can't see how Fidei's prior knowledge of Scott causing the difference in reads is a problem. Basically I'm trying to understand what wording in that range of reads is reading as "paranoid" or even trying to appease someone. The Cow interpretation - I am assuming the "weak read" comes from the ordering of the reads, so I had to read the Shapelog post again, to see if that justified a "stronger' townread from his worldview. Having gotten coached as town before I've been told that list posts don't go over well with people so I'm not sure if Fidei has an inherent bias towards that, but I could argue at least between the Shapelog and the Cow posts, the Cow should have been ranked above Shapelog, since it appears that Shapelog read is based on tone, but this is also an area of extreme subjectivity for me, I know some people on this site really rely on tone reads and especially for day 1. You might need to break it down to me line by line. this is getting lame and I think I'm starting to look for evidence that fits my conclusion rather than using the evidence t ocome to my conclusion but it really feels like fidei is trying really hard to show where his reads are coming from, moreso than he's trying to show his reads, if that makes sense. Fidei could be mafia, don't get me wrong, but it wouldn't be for this. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
(For the newbies, semi-open setup, possible veteran in said setup, mafia will want to protect the roleblocker.) | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
##vote GlowingBear | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 05 2016 17:15 Fecalfeast wrote: lol this is the kinda silly stuff I like do you really think this? I actually think this is very believeable. Admittedly biased, but this is exactly how Half the Sky was thinking when she first started out on TL, she was scum read very often, got wagoned very often, and one of the very first things she learnt, was figuring out who was mafia pushing her aggressively, who might be blue and possibly more subtle or not showing an agenda. She tried to read blues even as town so that if she needed to push back, she didn't want to trigger a blue claim by accident. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
on mobile, can retrieve later. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
If you are looking at mderg, then take a look at how he responded to me, his key argument against Noon is that Noon is framing his arguments to be exclusively mafia. My only concern based on mderg's response to me is that when he says he's sure he's on mafia, he will push them pretty hard, but I've not seen that so far. This is by his own standards. Noon is making the same argument as you on mderg though, and the way this game has been going there's a decent shot one of them is mafia, and I think particularly as Noon's claimed scum meta is similar to mderg's scum meta here, I will probably need to resolve those two using the database as well as how this cycle goes. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 06 2016 01:06 NocturneMage wrote: KMatt is newb town, not lynching him today. If you are looking at mderg, then take a look at how he responded to me, his key argument against Noon is that Noon is framing his arguments to be exclusively mafia. My only concern based on mderg's response to me is that when he says he's sure he's on mafia, he will push them pretty hard, but I've not seen that so far. This is by his own standards. Noon is making the same argument as you on mderg though, and the way this game has been going there's a decent shot one of them is mafia, and I think particularly as Noon's claimed scum meta is similar to mderg's scum meta here, I will probably need to resolve those two using the database as well as how this cycle goes. EBWOP - poorly worded phrasing And I think particularly with Noon's claim on mderg's scum meta being reflected in this game. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
I had a scum read on Shapelog prior to departure. FF from the two games I've played with him has shown he doesn't care both as town (newbie 17) and as scum (Dark Tournament). Here, FF comes in catching up with a light townread on Fidei and a scumread on mderg. So far he seems to care. That is probably town indicative. He pushes mderg as a scumread. My concern here is that answers he's looking for to determine the latter's alignment can be found in a conversation and not necessarily forced into a case. Now I realise people do ask for cases when they are trying to catch up or links to posts but contextually this was a conversation they were having at the present time he asked for a case. "Why not make one now" (post 1040) reads to me like a "gotcha phrase" something I would have expected would have been "alright, based on reason X can you further elaborate" or "can you give me a link to a post that supports what you are saying in your last post" working with his preferred way to do things, given how mderg has played all game. (One-liners/conversational style isn't in of itself scummy.) This could be just me reading too much into semantics but that was what I pulled from that exchange. Finally I do want to see what comes of posts 1038-40. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 06 2016 07:14 Fecalfeast wrote: wait wtf he had like 0 minutes to dwitch when giygas voted.... yeah gb might be town Shennanies happens all the time hitting people of both alignments. How is the timing alignment indicative? | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
I don't recall him ever scumreading or townreading that slot to begin with (and even if he did, then????) and I am not sure what you could do with the information other than to say wait he didn't have a read but why would it matter now since he's flipped. Additionally, when I read the question I get extremely wary of anything that discusses blue roles/situations/reads outside situations where there are claims/counterclaims/fakeclaims near end of cycle, and even then sometimes you have to be careful. There was a potential risk that you get a reaction where a townie - especially a newbie townie - is going to spew something that further helps narrow the field down or outright gives himself away. In general, it reminded me of what happened right after the lynch I discussed in newbie 14. I always review scum qts especially when scum endgame and what stuck out to me was your rolehunting. So taking it into account who it was coming from, I got concerned. | ||
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