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Really Small Mafia II - Page 8

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 14:55 GMT
#573
On December 15 2015 23:55 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2015 23:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On December 15 2015 23:54 Rels wrote:
On December 15 2015 23:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Shh.. It was quite obvious from the moment he started questioning my logic on the claim.

Cool. Any chance it's not DP ? If not game is over.

DP literally said he is not the doctor.

Talking about scum.

Oh so now you care?
I thought the game was over?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 14:59 GMT
#577
On December 15 2015 23:57 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2015 23:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On December 15 2015 23:55 Rels wrote:
On December 15 2015 23:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On December 15 2015 23:54 Rels wrote:
On December 15 2015 23:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Shh.. It was quite obvious from the moment he started questioning my logic on the claim.

Cool. Any chance it's not DP ? If not game is over.

DP literally said he is not the doctor.

Talking about scum.

Oh so now you care?
I thought the game was over?

I always cared. I want to win.

Well you didn't care enough to answer my concerns on you at the deadline and after.
Neither did Greymist but that's understandable since he is the doctor (although he should have claimed earlier).
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:02 GMT
#580
On December 14 2015 19:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2015 19:50 Rels wrote:
On December 14 2015 19:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On December 14 2015 19:33 Rels wrote:
Why everybody is townreading rsoul ?

I don't think anyone is townreading them.
However why are you scumreading DP?

Why did you not consider them for D1 lynch then ? And why were you townreading them after their first posts ?
About DP: I don't scumread him. He was a townlean going into EOD. His EOD was NAI IMO.
He unvoted marv then sheeped on me then left the thread; both alignement could do it; but if he's scum, him saying "I would sheep you rayn" after you say you want to switch off marv is certainly possible. It's possible he's town doing it too.

Do you seriously think DP is mafia when marv places his vote on him and refuses to consider you (who i am pushing) as a lynch? That would implicate that marv is more okay with DP getting lynched than getting lynched himself, and i honestly do not think even marv thinks he has a better chance of winning the game with scum lynched on D1 than DP.

I find it the most impossible answer that DP is mafia with marv -- after Damdred who hammered scum ofc.


On December 14 2015 19:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Regardless of what me and Damdred do DP and marv could have lynched you instead...


Furthermore DP is actually interested in who is mafia, unlike other people who are not the doctor.

Yes, i believe there is zero chance DP is mafia.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:08 GMT
#583
On December 16 2015 00:01 Rels wrote:
Rels:
- I don't like his EOD, i really don't, i disagree with Damdred here. The thing is Rels said he hasn't read most of the posts when shit started to happen, yet he doesn't listen to anyone when he comes back at the EOD, just starts yelling idk.. something...
- The scumread on marv suddenly disappears there, without him properly reading marv's posts
- I agree with the two-head here, many of Rels' points seem to lead nowhere and are minor points that do not actually matter at all alignment-wise
- Actually this shit here points towards Rels more than Greymist. Look at what i say about Greymist's post, and what Rels does:
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 13 2015 18:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
First I will say that, while I find some conduct of Ryan suspicious, this results from inconsistencies in his behavior. I thought a lot of what he was doing seemed towny, however there are a few things that give me pause.

The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.

I never said there could not be scum between them. I said i think there is no way BOTH of the scum are between them. I provided analysis on why i reached to the conclusion. I am not arbitary putting people into categories, if you think my analysis is incorrect, please argue about why they are incorrect instead of just creating a narrative on the conclusion.

Show nested quote +
The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.

I am not saying it is certain you are mafia. In fact i am far more sure of marv being scum at this point based purely on the fact that he well knows the game has started and has decided to not post anything at all. The conclusion that at least one of you / marv has to be mafia for me is completely logical based on the analysis on other people -- basically it is due to PoE. Again, if you do not agree with this, please point out where i am wrong in my analysis. Then we have something to argue about.

Tbf, you can't just say something is scummy / wrong without actually explaining why it is that way. I feel like i have provided my thought process behind every conclusion i have made in this game -- so it would only be natural for you to actually try to disprove my conclusions if you attack my arguments, no?

Show nested quote +
Finally, I thought back to Ryan's other posts. They all seemed very towny so I thought to myself: "maybe I'm just chainsaw ing Ryan here, creating a read on him out of spite." Then I noticed 2 minor things which makes me think, perhaps, he could be mafia.

First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.

Again, i have already said why i think this is the case. Why is my (and Damdred's) "jump" on Rels "rushed and oppertunistic". I found out Rels' thought process illogical and the things he posted didn't match up with the conclusions he ended up with. I wanted him to elaborate further, and i don't think "that going nowhere" is my fault, since Rels' answer was basically "yeah that's what i think".

Show nested quote +
Finally, Ryan asking my read of him. This strikes me as odd as well because it appears as though he wants to draw some early fire for an easy opportunity to defend himself through activity. A question like "why didn't you analyze me?!" Has bearing on day 2, but not a quarter into day 1 when information is still being processed.

There are my current thoughts, more to come.

In my opinion this has bearing when you analyze every single other player who has posted that far in the game. I consider it weird because if you are mafia you would either:
1) correctly call me town -- in which case it hinders your mislynch possibilities
2) incorrectly call me mafia -- in which case your logic is not sound in the first place and someone can catch you for it

Furthermore at some point you were saying you didn't have a read on me. But around half of your case (idk.. is this a case?) is based on the timeline when you didn't have a read on me, and is also basically based on everything i did during that time.. How is it possible both of your statements are correct?

On December 13 2015 19:50 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:

The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement.

How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.

Show nested quote +
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.

On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.

Show nested quote +
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.

He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?

Show nested quote +
On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.

You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?

The notable difference here is the following:

What i did i pointed out why Greymist was talking about something that i NEVER said. What Rels did is he just asked "why is this scummy?". I believe this shows a lack of reading the thread properly and understanding why people say the things they do, since the correct question here, for Rels, should be "rayn never said what you claim here -- why are you saying he did?". If i actually did what Greymist said in his post that WOULD be scummy, but the fact is i didn't.

I think this is the strongest point against Rels, and i missed that before. Also notice that the post Rels made came AFTER i had already posted my response to Greymist.



My preferred lynch order at this point is Rels --> Hydra.


On December 15 2015 06:16 Rels wrote:
rayn if by your fault GM is never lynched this game I'm gonna be super mad. I don't have anything to answer your things against me.


Since then you have argued that Greymist is 100% scum and mostly nothing else.
Okay, it's my fault if Greymist gets not lynched this game. I take it.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:12 GMT
#586
On December 16 2015 00:10 Rels wrote:
=D funny guy. I can't fucking believe greymist forgot the reason he made an accusation post.

Yeah i find that quite hilarious aswell but instead of like.. idk.. .answering people's concerns on you you decided to use all this time in telling why you are 100% sure he is mafia, when you had made your point already.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:14 GMT
#587
To be fair, i don't literally care which one of hydra / Rels we lynch first.
Maybe i'll just sheep DP.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:17 GMT
#590
On December 16 2015 00:15 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2015 00:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On December 16 2015 00:10 Rels wrote:
=D funny guy. I can't fucking believe greymist forgot the reason he made an accusation post.

Yeah i find that quite hilarious aswell but instead of like.. idk.. .answering people's concerns on you you decided to use all this time in telling why you are 100% sure he is mafia, when you had made your point already.

I have no idea what question you want me to answer. In your list of points against me, only the "pointless questionning" stuff is false. The rest I cannot prove to be wrong, except that nothing is alignement indicative.

ehh you literally said yourself "i don't know what i was doing on D1, my filter looks terrible".
How is that fucking false?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:20 GMT
#592
On December 16 2015 00:19 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2015 00:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On December 16 2015 00:15 Rels wrote:
On December 16 2015 00:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On December 16 2015 00:10 Rels wrote:
=D funny guy. I can't fucking believe greymist forgot the reason he made an accusation post.

Yeah i find that quite hilarious aswell but instead of like.. idk.. .answering people's concerns on you you decided to use all this time in telling why you are 100% sure he is mafia, when you had made your point already.

I have no idea what question you want me to answer. In your list of points against me, only the "pointless questionning" stuff is false. The rest I cannot prove to be wrong, except that nothing is alignement indicative.

ehh you literally said yourself "i don't know what i was doing on D1, my filter looks terrible".
How is that fucking false?

Maybe if you read the sentence again you will see I say "only the "pointless questionning" stuff is false" (=

Yes i read it right.
You literallysaid, on N1, that your D1 was shit -- which makes your questioning pointless.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:21 GMT
#594
Like, let's say you have asked ~100 questions that should lead you somewhere in this game.
In my opinion ~97 of those 100 questions are completely pointless and can't ever lead to finding mafia.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:25 GMT
#597
Greymist, to answer your question about marv's actions:
His actions points the most to Rels being mafia.
It points the least to DP being mafia (as i have argued).
Hydra is somewhere in the middle.

But i don't really think this kind of "casemaking" is legit, since people don't really have control over what marv does or doesn't. Like if Rels is town here, he has no way of defending himself against "marv did something" as he has no control over what mard does. It's a cheap way to make a case in my opinion, so that's why i think your question doesn't achieve much.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:26 GMT
#599
On December 16 2015 00:23 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2015 00:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Like, let's say you have asked ~100 questions that should lead you somewhere in this game.
In my opinion ~97 of those 100 questions are completely pointless and can't ever lead to finding mafia.

Well if that's your opinion whatever.

Well in the end, at this point you have ended up with "rayn must be scum" when i was pushing a lynch on mafia.
And you have also ended up with "this guy who is quite clearly the doctor if i read the thread properly"...

So... idk, if you are town maybe you should have taken my advice after D1 and take a step back and sometimes think before you post..
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:29 GMT
#603
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:
Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"

But i thought you thought DP was possibly mafia aswell?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:30 GMT
#604
On December 16 2015 00:29 Rels wrote:
I don't understand how GM is not scum here though.

It's very easy. He is the un-cc'd medic.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:31 GMT
#607
##unvote
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:35 GMT
#613
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:
Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"

But at the time where this post refers to:
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:
Otherwise here is my mind atm:

rayn
Damdred
grey

Arta/rsoul
marv

DP




About the reiteration
Our concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.



For DP, it feels like he's buddying a bunch of players and the GM scumread seems too easy and shallow. He also spent a lot more time on his townreads than his scumreads. There just doesn't seem to be much drive to find scum in him. It's also telling that we can't really say much about his filter besides a bunch of reasons for people to be town.

Town
Damdred
Raynpelikoneet

Leaning Town
GreYMisT

Leaning Scum
Rels
DarthPunk

Mafia
Marvellosity[/QUOTE]
On December 14 2015 02:13 RtaniSoul wrote:
@Damdy yeah, you're right. There's nothing wrong with focusing on PoE, and we definitely could be wrong about DP. Lex and I have waffled on him back and forth as we read the thread. PoE makes sense if you have no scumreads, but we still just don't see much actual scumhunting in his filter and it still bugs us. We can get a sense of where most people would be voting if they weren't voting marv, but we don't have the same feeling about DP.

@DP, if you could address the above question...who is scum other than marv?...that would be nice.

Those were the last posts of you on D1.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:43 GMT
#621
On December 16 2015 00:41 GreYMisT wrote:
Also, just for fun, I was literally (no joke) about to change my save to damdred. I went with someone else, deciding not to try to game the mafia and it turned out wrong. Would have been a sick play.

I think you should have flipped the coin between me and Damdred because we lynched mafia.

##vote RtaniSoul
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:45 GMT
#625
No there is a really big inconsistancy in what the hydra says in contrast to how they had acted before / at the time marv started posting (regardless of if they are telling the truth about reading marv's posts there or not).
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:46 GMT
#628
On December 16 2015 00:44 RtaniSoul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2015 00:42 Rels wrote:
On December 16 2015 00:40 RtaniSoul wrote:
On December 16 2015 00:38 Rels wrote:
Concede please (= I'm super happy you're not bad townies. I was super mad this morning about your badness but I couldn't consider you town over GM making up a reason for his own post.

You tried so hard
and got so far
but in the end
you're still getting lynched today or tomorrow

Man if I lose this game because you saw that marv posted but didn't bother writing stuff, I have no problem (= actually if you're town I want us to concede. Now way scum should lose here.

Please do inform us how actively lurking and having our vote on scum is scummier than just being afk

Maybe you are lying about "actively lurking". Who knows.
Your story doesn't make sense anyways.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 15:46 GMT
#629
I am going to write a post about that in two hours in case Rels doesnt' do that earlier.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 15 2015 16:03 GMT
#635
Post 1:
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:
Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"

Post 2:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:
Otherwise here is my mind atm:

rayn
Damdred
grey

Arta/rsoul
marv

DP




About the reiteration
Our concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.



For DP, it feels like he's buddying a bunch of players and the GM scumread seems too easy and shallow. He also spent a lot more time on his townreads than his scumreads. There just doesn't seem to be much drive to find scum in him. It's also telling that we can't really say much about his filter besides a bunch of reasons for people to be town.

Town
Damdred
Raynpelikoneet

Leaning Town
GreYMisT

Leaning Scum
Rels
DarthPunk

Mafia
Marvellosity

Post 3:
On December 14 2015 02:13 RtaniSoul wrote:
@Damdy yeah, you're right. There's nothing wrong with focusing on PoE, and we definitely could be wrong about DP. Lex and I have waffled on him back and forth as we read the thread. PoE makes sense if you have no scumreads, but we still just don't see much actual scumhunting in his filter and it still bugs us. We can get a sense of where most people would be voting if they weren't voting marv, but we don't have the same feeling about DP.

@DP, if you could address the above question...who is scum other than marv?...that would be nice.

Those were the last posts of you on D1.[/QUOTE]

Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"
Now in the Post 1 the hydra says this:
"When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town"
That implies (as they claim, they have been reading the thread after marv started posting but before the deadline). In case they are lying about this they are 100% scum so let's not discuss that at all. Let's assume they are telling the truth.

However, they say "Artanis thought marv could be town". At this point of the game, based on Post 2 and Post 3, which are the last posts before the deadline from them, they are literally scumreading DP over Rels. It makes sense that Artanis says that, since marv is voting for DP (their top scumread). However it doesn't make any sense that rsoultin says "but who else could rels be scum with?", for these reasons:

1) It's easily possible here, if marv is in fact town, that Rels is mafia with DP -- or at least it should be for them, since nothing in their posting implicates otherwise.
2) The posts (2) and (3) are their collective thoughts. If they thought Rels is somehow mafia over DP (which can't be seen from their posting) -- well the thread is there for expressing the thought, even without reasoning laid out for it. Again, if they thought that is the case -- there is no implication for it, so it sounds like bullshit.

Therefore i find it impossible they are telling the truth here.
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