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I don't know if I'm going to do much more today, it's weekend.
Based on reading HtS and NM yesterday, I'm going to leave my vote on her. I think it's the right call.
I won't be here at the deadline (or well... I won't be here from many hours before the deadline until tomorrow), so meh. I'll check my phone and such. If anyone wants my attention for something special just shout, I'll hopefully notice. I still think this is a reasonably good lynch. NM seems kinda towny and he's very sure about HtS, and her entire tone is very very bland as I talked about.
I am again more suspicious of fidei and trfel than I was previously, with NM moving into the probably town column. I actually read something FF wrote that made me think he's town too, but since I can't even remember what it was, it can't have been super significant. Still for now this is good enough. I have yet to read FF, DYH and I think some other people, but I'll have to do that during the night or tomorrow.
Good luck guys.
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Taking a look at LS's latest bit of reads to see if they are actually "better" or moving the game forward. I'm going to pretend for a second he might be a townie who is smoking a bit too much weed/insane/whatever and I'm going to ignore any meta he brings up.
(I'm also going to pretend that HTS doesn't exist in this game, except for his read, for a second since I've drawn a lot of association betwen the two.)
Palmar - he could have just stopped with push on Shining, It's an incomplete read at best or him townreading Palmar for entirely the wrong reasons. end of day I realise is a clusterfuck but Palmar's end of day play has jumped at a few people. In a previous response, LS did say to me that he did help build the direction on kush, granted though I heavily disagreed with that reason being towny. the reason he told me again was overexplanation which a) was parroting palmar and b) that explanation wasn't that wordy, and not even scummy.
FF - that read I don't know if it's semantics "lazy FF means no agenda FF" or "lazy FF means give no fucks FF" or whatever or just that he cannot be arsed to solve the game, well you could argue that for scum but him asking FF to do more work also makes no sense here - if he's that sure in meta land that lazy FF is town FF then asking him to do work would put him where? he's already town? what is the purpose of that read? it's posting just to post.
Rels - going to stop after the word "little" since everything after that is (yawn) meta. Case on FYH might be "good" yeah but does he make an easy townread like others might have agreed on or was it just an honest conclusion?
Shining - this is largely the same conclusion I came to. Other people came to it well before obviously. I can see both sides. Scum LS would just copy this read from others who have determined it, and town LS would have done like me and read his filter and come to the same thing.
Trfel - don't like this read either. Last game, with scummy cases on Fecalfeast and Scott, the same tone was there, in LS' defence he might not be as informed. Did any of his play from day 1 having any bearing or re-evaluation?
The read on me - again, parroting or honest conclusion? "he's not as analytical" - okay fine, ignore my read on HTS, what about my reads now on other people?
HTS - so content is questionable? what content was questionable? did he probe her on anything? did he do anything about it? knowing the people pushing hts - fidei (at least softly?), dyh, myself, alright none of them are particularly high on his totem pole, great. But why isn't he taking the lead to find that out himself? he mentioned her illness but I countered against him last night that illness is not alignment indicative, and even by his own admission he said in his filter "oh shit I didn't know that, she can do it" (close enough wording) so that should have given him the green light to just look at her content and solve.
must......avoid.......association.......reads.......... 
Fidei - doesn't someone tunnelling you by definition make them town? His content is "okay" alright, so is his read on LS unusual in a scummy way? no? then why isn't he town, or if that read IS unusual, then why? doesn't that make him scum and want you to look into him more? again, where's the value either way?
DYH - alright, so LS is townreading disformation and Rels, both of whom are pushing DYH. Explanation is largely parroting. same potential issue as some of the other reads previously mentioned.
the argument that LS' play is improving is false (figures trfel is making the argument) he brings nothing new to the table - lack of original thought is generally scum indicative, at least I can agree to disagree on town LS thinking Palmar is surely town based on end of cycle. he certainly hasn't done anything earth shattering or moved the game forward, and none of the FF/HTS/Fidei reads he has posted really make any sense from a town perspective.
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don't think I made a list post in my smattering of reads from last night:
Town: Shining, myself
Likely town: disformation, Rels
Need to look into: Fecalfeast, DYH
Need to look into again: Fidei (interactions, voting end of cycle 1)
Null with reservations/scumlean: Palmar
Likely scum: Trfel, LightningStrike
Lynching her with fire today: Half the Sky
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On December 05 2015 22:11 Palmar wrote:
I don't know if I'm going to do much more today, it's weekend.
Based on reading HtS and NM yesterday, I'm going to leave my vote on her. I think it's the right call.
I won't be here at the deadline (or well... I won't be here from many hours before the deadline until tomorrow), so meh. I'll check my phone and such. If anyone wants my attention for something special just shout, I'll hopefully notice. I still think this is a reasonably good lynch. NM seems kinda towny and he's very sure about HtS, and her entire tone is very very bland as I talked about.
I am again more suspicious of fidei and trfel than I was previously, with NM moving into the probably town column. I actually read something FF wrote that made me think he's town too, but since I can't even remember what it was, it can't have been super significant. Still for now this is good enough. I have yet to read FF, DYH and I think some other people, but I'll have to do that during the night or tomorrow.
Good luck guys.
You mentioned that Fidei was "overthinking" lynching HTS. what was so suspicious about it.
also separate from this issue, how was kush's explanation wordy/or an overexplanation that was scummy? that makes zero sense to me.
LS uses shitty meta to skate by, and even you were okay with lynching LS at one point.
so I really don't understand your approach end of cycle.
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probably shouldn't use the word shitty, but in general, it looks shitty to us, we cannot make people's metareads easily and certainly not in the manner LS was throwing anything together day 1, I won't speak for kush but from my perspective I cannot trust meta reads from people that I don't know. I have never played with LS, or you, or too many people in this game really.
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On December 06 2015 00:36 NocturneMage wrote:
probably shouldn't use the word shitty, but in general, it looks shitty to us, we cannot make people's metareads easily and certainly not in the manner LS was throwing anything together day 1, I won't speak for kush but from my perspective I cannot trust meta reads from people that I don't know. I have never played with LS, or you, or too many people in this game really.
ebwop - the bolded should be "understand"
we can't understand other people's meta reads easily
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I did not think of DYH coming up with his points in conjunction with bussing HTS based on her illness. I know in Void, she told her scummates her work schedule was tanking her and she told them to bus her but removing that argument, at the same time it is quite reasonable for someone to take a lynched player's reads, narrow down who they were scumreading and use that as a starting point. they might not be right but at least you can trust it.
that said, rels case is making me grapple with his alignment. there was something he drew to attention where dyh said "I'm still on all the scumlists despite agreeing with everyone" and I think it's more important how the scumread came about. it alludes to self-consciousness which is a scum tell. IDK.
I'm just going to assume he's a low count poster as either alignment - activity tells can be broken anyways.
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On December 05 2015 18:36 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2015 18:33 Trfel wrote:
@Rels:
I believe that you are moderately suspicious about Palmar, but I checked your filter again and I didn't see anything referencing your Palmar read recently. Can you please clarify?
I think that your case on DoYouHas does not show that he is mafia at all. I didn't think that you had any updated reasons, but I might have missed them. I've posted my thoughts about DoYouHas, based on your last post I'm assuming you still think he is mafia, why?
I'm going to go to bed now, I'll see your response in the morning. Unless I can't sleep, then I guess I'll be playing mafia straight to the lynch... ugh. Palmar hasn't done anything to make me change my read. I obviously don't agree with your take on my case. I think in particular, his total apathy towards the lynch is scum indicative. I agree about the apathy towards the lynch, however I think that this is the only valid suspicion of him. And I don't think that it's strong enough to lynch him alone.
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so I parsed his filter. two reservations (that I don't believe others already brought up? or if they did I missed it?)
post 1027/1165 - he makes a few comments about Rels using a negative connotation - "drowned out with aggression" "misrepresenting"
intentionally or not? no stance on Rels? or at least a lean based on those two encounters?
also I looked a bit into the argument that DYH could have been bussing HTS.
I replaced in at 2300 even. The post that DYH makes is at 0140 my time or something and I notice it about 10 minutes later. Knowing HTS, she would absolutely panic seeing me replace in. She WAS definitely up at end of cycle and would have seen the night post with the replacements. She could have told him to find a reason to scumread her, but then again on its own and forgetting she's in the game, the reasoning for starting to scumread her isn't bad or wrong from a townie standpoint (based on my last post).
That said the previous argument made was that he had no scumreads - he had a slew of reads to begin with but couldn't get off a scumread. I can see that from either way it could be noncomittal, or it could be lack of time.
I think my bigger problem is his pushback on Rels without really taking a stance on Rels. Is Rels just bullheaded town, opportunistic mafia? The self-consciousness stuff also doesn't go well with me either.
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On December 06 2015 00:20 NocturneMage wrote:Taking a look at LS's latest bit of reads to see if they are actually "better" or moving the game forward. I'm going to pretend for a second he might be a townie who is smoking a bit too much weed/insane/whatever and I'm going to ignore any meta he brings up. (I'm also going to pretend that HTS doesn't exist in this game, except for his read, for a second since I've drawn a lot of association betwen the two.) Palmar - he could have just stopped with push on Shining, It's an incomplete read at best or him townreading Palmar for entirely the wrong reasons. end of day I realise is a clusterfuck but Palmar's end of day play has jumped at a few people. In a previous response, LS did say to me that he did help build the direction on kush, granted though I heavily disagreed with that reason being towny. the reason he told me again was overexplanation which a) was parroting palmar and b) that explanation wasn't that wordy, and not even scummy. I actually agreed with Palmar on kush plus people were moving to him so it made it easier for me to just switch to him.FF - that read I don't know if it's semantics "lazy FF means no agenda FF" or "lazy FF means give no fucks FF" or whatever or just that he cannot be arsed to solve the game, well you could argue that for scum but him asking FF to do more work also makes no sense here - if he's that sure in meta land that lazy FF is town FF then asking him to do work would put him where? he's already town? what is the purpose of that read? it's posting just to post. I just wanted to work so I can see what he's thinking obviously. Have a second opinion on stuff is always helpful in the game of mafia Rels - going to stop after the word "little" since everything after that is (yawn) meta. Case on FYH might be "good" yeah but does he make an easy townread like others might have agreed on or was it just an honest conclusion? It's a honest conclusion I thought the case okay and disformation mentioned that DYH ead progression was weird and man was he right. So I kinda leaning on him for now but idk how many other people would switch to him if we don't lynch HTSShining - this is largely the same conclusion I came to. Other people came to it well before obviously. I can see both sides. Scum LS would just copy this read from others who have determined it, and town LS would have done like me and read his filter and come to the same thing. I was there during some of the argument and had read the rest during catchups hence how I got my shining readTrfel - don't like this read either. Last game, with scummy cases on Fecalfeast and Scott, the same tone was there, in LS' defence he might not be as informed. Did any of his play from day 1 having any bearing or re-evaluation? I'll admit I didn't play with Trfel for a little while because I took a break from mafia and didn't really follow the game you talked about.The read on me - again, parroting or honest conclusion? "he's not as analytical" - okay fine, ignore my read on HTS, what about my reads now on other people? HTS - so content is questionable? what content was questionable? did he probe her on anything? did he do anything about it? knowing the people pushing hts - fidei (at least softly?), dyh, myself, alright none of them are particularly high on his totem pole, great. But why isn't he taking the lead to find that out himself? he mentioned her illness but I countered against him last night that illness is not alignment indicative, and even by his own admission he said in his filter "oh shit I didn't know that, she can do it" (close enough wording) so that should have given him the green light to just look at her content and solve. The only content I remember eing questionable was her EoD but that was it.must......avoid.......association.......reads.......... Fidei - doesn't someone tunnelling you by definition make them town? His content is "okay" alright, so is his read on LS unusual in a scummy way? no? then why isn't he town, or if that read IS unusual, then why? doesn't that make him scum and want you to look into him more? again, where's the value either way? James knows me and shouldn't realy been scumreading me when he knows I do stuff the way I did this game as town which making me questioning his alignmentDYH - alright, so LS is townreading disformation and Rels, both of whom are pushing DYH. Explanation is largely parroting. same potential issue as some of the other reads previously mentioned. See my thing on Relsthe argument that LS' play is improving is false (figures trfel is making the argument) he brings nothing new to the table - lack of original thought is generally scum indicative, at least I can agree to disagree on town LS thinking Palmar is surely town based on end of cycle. he certainly hasn't done anything earth shattering or moved the game forward, and none of the FF/HTS/Fidei reads he has posted really make any sense from a town perspective.
All bolded is my stuff in response to you.
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I'm going to be gone most of today. Family time and loads of it this weekend with a slew of visitors to boot.
also didn't say it last post, but last post I'm going to say I throw dyh also in the null/scumlean column with reservations.
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So TLDR about DYH/HTI would vote:
my prefer lynch is DYH if we can get people to vote him.
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On December 06 2015 01:43 LightningStrike wrote:
So TLDR about DYH/HTS would vote:
my prefer lynch is DYH if we can get people to vote him.
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LS, if someone's end of cycle activity was questionable you absolutely should have questioned them on it. that is a pretty critical thing to start off on. ignoring hts or ANYONE on that criteria doesn't make you look good at all.
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On December 06 2015 01:44 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2015 01:43 LightningStrike wrote:
So TLDR about DYH/HTS Who I would vote:
my prefer lynch is DYH if we can get people to vote him.
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On December 06 2015 01:44 NocturneMage wrote:
LS, if someone's end of cycle activity was questionable you absolutely should have questioned them on it. that is a pretty critical thing to start off on. ignoring hts or ANYONE on that criteria doesn't make you look good at all.
She haven't really been around this Day Phase so ofc I can't.
Plus I think she was gone shortly after too as I was too going somewhere so :\
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Anyways I will just continue the argument when I get home.(was at college campus using their internet)
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Apologies for not playing yesterday. It was a really nice day filled with things I enjoy. I'm in a good mood and I've got some more time now that it is the weekend. I will be around/in and out for most of today.
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HTS is more mafia then DYH at this time, it's possible that they are both mafia but my vote is staying on the more mafia of the two.
1000% sure LS, or a soulread if that's what people call it here. I've known her since 2006. I am not wrong on this one.
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On December 06 2015 01:47 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2015 01:44 NocturneMage wrote:
LS, if someone's end of cycle activity was questionable you absolutely should have questioned them on it. that is a pretty critical thing to start off on. ignoring hts or ANYONE on that criteria doesn't make you look good at all. She haven't really been around this Day Phase so ofc I can't.Plus I think she was gone shortly after too as I was too going somewhere so :\
If she doesn't respond, she doesn't respond. The fact is, you didn't question her at all. (if you did, where is the post?)
I mean even Trfel said he had whatever questions for her and he laid them out.
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EPT
