EPTBecause if not, there's really no reason for me to play. I'd rather not waste my time trying to reread all of that End of Day stuff.
Dark Tournament Mini Mafia - Page 6
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
Because if not, there's really no reason for me to play. I'd rather not waste my time trying to reread all of that End of Day stuff. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 03 2015 08:52 Fecalfeast wrote: I have to make a ton of posts to get my presence acknowledged enough to be told that I'm an idiot.I like playing with everyone man what's up? No one responds to me with just one post. No one listens to me or respects my opinion at all, no one wants to work with me. I feel like I'm off solving the game in my own world, which is no fun at all. And my entire mafia playstyle/theory is based on collaboration... | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 03 2015 09:04 The Shining wrote: I still think I caught scum and everyone just ignored me. No one told me why I was wrong, they just said that they either disagreed or I was stupid, or both.I've played in a bunch of games with you and never had a problem and never BMd you that I can remember. We even rolled scum together once and won that game with DarthPunk. The only reason I'm questioning you is to get a better grasp on your read progression and whether I can see town motivation behind it. It's a part of playing the game. Like objectively, you went from your 100% scumread MD onto LS after having him as a townlean. But I looked in your filter and you were adamant about staying on Moosy until LS made those weird posts about lynching MD cuz he's scum but only voting him to save himself. But you switched after that, not before that, which makes me think you really did believe that LS was scum because of it. And afterwards the language you use(I can't see that post coming from town) but he was a townlean throughout minus that post felt off but the willingness to engage Damdred to try and see what Damdred is seeing about LS being locktown feels like it could come from town reconsidering a read. I just don't understand why you're feeling so disheartened and down. Everyone instead decided to lynch my townread, and call me extremely suspicious and stupid for what I think are awful reasons. I have yet to decide if that was mafia motivated or not. When I commented on this, I was basically told that I'm horrible and it's all my fault. Throughout the game, I've had an awful time trying to get questions answered and trying to talk to people. It feels basically impossible. Whether I'm asking them to explain something they said that I'm struggling to understand or if I'm asking them what they think about my reads. Of course I'm miserable. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
My preferred lynch was always MoosyDoosy, and I was going to keep my vote on him as protest assuming that it didn't matter. When the lynch started shifting from MoosyDoosy to kushm4sta, LightningStrike made two posts that I thought nearly confirmed him as mafia. I didn't have a read on kushm4sta, and I decided that it was more likely that I was stupid and wrong on LightningStrike, so I changed my vote to lynch him instead of kushm4sta. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 03 2015 09:16 Fecalfeast wrote: As for the rest of your questions:Not a bad point on disform at face value but if disform wasn't sure of his play before and has since learned that constructed posts are scummy, what's the problem calling out something he has learned to be generally scummy? Now that day 1 is over and his pass expired, what is your opinion of shining? Keeping in mind he was a main instigator of the final kush switch. I'm not reading in context, what changed your mind from your earlier suspicions? Why was fidei a good lynch before you read his filter? What is your opinion on him now? EoD Your switch from moose to LS seemed a little off to me as I read it from outside the game. You even said So LS making one inconsistency means that moose, who you think could claim mafia and still be just as scummy, is no longer a better lynch than LS? Can you run me through that? My thinking was that if disformation was town in the game, then he knows that that argument doesn't make sense, so he shouldn't be applying it. In general I was trying to look at his thought process, though. When he explained it, I realized that he wasn't using "constructed" as a scum tell, but to refer to posts that were created pre-game. He was actually approaching it from the other mindset, saying that Damdred's post seemed towny but was NAI if it was created pre role pm. This seemed like an unexpected take to me, and a bit towny. I didn't pay much attention in the final hour of the day, so I don't really know about The Shining. His completely ignoring my arguments and scumreading me with unflipped association to the point that I should be a counterwagon felt really really horrible, but I'm not sure if that makes him mafia. I liked the points about his Day 1 activity, however he was kind of forced to do that as mafia if he wanted to survive. Then the only question is if he could have that much motivation to play as mafia, and I think that the answer is possibly. I really want to look at how his reads changed between his two series of posts, and see what the reasoning and thought process for those changes are. Right now, I don't have thoughts. Third question was answered above XD Those weren't suspicions, but trying to figure things out. I never got to Fidei86's filter, I was confident in MoosyDoosy being scum. I was too frustrated before I read his filter. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 03 2015 09:23 Fecalfeast wrote: You mean LightningStrike being confirmed town?And sorry I closed your filter before the very end did you comment on the 'confirmed town' thing? What do you make of it? I don't think he's confirmed town, if someone was coaching him to just yell as much as possible in the scum QT I think that LightningStrike might play like that as town. However, given that I think the rest of his play was reasonably towny, he's a solid town read. Right now I'm most suspicious of Damdred, NocturneMage/MoosyDoosy, The Shining, Fidei86, and Rels (in no particular order). There's been a lot that happened since I last did serious analysis, though. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
When did you see Damdred's post about the game setup? As in, how long did you spend writing your first post? And, had you read/analyzed the game setup before you read Damdred's post? Off for a while. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 03 2015 10:57 NocturneMage wrote: This post is extremely scummy. Makes me more convinced that I'm right. NocturneMage didn't acknowledge any of the differences between my play this game and last game, which is drastic in the way that I pushed my reads and the method of the reads themselves. NocturneMage also scumreads me for pushing MoosyDoosy, and I have no clue why that's suspicious to him when he just saw me push the strongest players in the game as mafia last game, so he knows that I don't resort to "easy targets" as mafia...yo, at work, on mobile, finishing work late tonight, need to go to bed right after though and I have seminars all damn day tomorrow. I've not read dick all or followed the game for d1 quite yet, but I'm VT and I'm ready to fuck up some dirty dirty scummers. reading from end of cycle, I'm pretty suspicious of trfel again (I say again because he was scum the last game) but that's mainly because of how he played last game. of course he'd push moosydoosy, he's unreadable as fuck as either alignment. same desperation emotions when no one is listening to him. unless he does this as town. cool story bro, try harder because I'm not scum. The extremely dismissive tone without having read the thread is very uncharacteristic. Last game as town, NocturneMage was very reasonable and methodical, and people said that he was much more aggressive tonally as mafia. The tone used here would perhaps be justified if he had actually read the thread or had actual reasons. I thought of some new ways to try to explain/evaluate my MoosyDoosy read, I'll give that a try after I catch up with some stuff. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
| ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 02 2015 09:36 Damdred wrote: Sorry, Damdred, I'm having a bit of trouble understanding this post. Are the leans scumleans or town leans? If the former, does falling from a scumlean mean looking townier or scummier?Disinformation Eels Damdred Shining Palmar Leans Trfel Fid (falling) Ls Honestly it's notso bad so far even though I've read 0 filters. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 03 2015 06:13 Damdred wrote: This is Damdred's scumread of LightningStrike this game, that started the whole LightningStrike wagon.Sure LS usually even if he is wrong is a strongish prescense in the thread giving his opinion and trying to get people to interact with him while he gives scum reads. He lacks real reads in the thread, the few he has given have been little substance. The one scum read I can tell in his filter was Trfel that he has totally backed off of. He isn't looking to push anyone he is just existing. Now, look at Newbie Student Mafia VIII (for reference, Damdred, LightningStrike, and I (Trfel) were all town. At one point in this game, I scumread LightningStrike for actually having no scumreads. Here's the quote: On April 21 2015 03:55 Trfel wrote: Read the arguments in this quote, and compare them to what Damdred said about LightningStrike this game. Damdred accuses LightningStrike of not having a strong presence, only one scum reads, no pushes, just existing. In Newbie Student Mafia VIII (quote above), I accused LightningStrike of having no scum reads, and just asking questions, not pressuring anyone, and not doing anything to change the thread activity. These are very similar reads.LightningStrike Some people don't learn. I am one of them. This is a post that LightningStrike made in TL Mafia LXX: Guardians of the Galaxy. Note that he provided a bunch of town reads, and then a bunch of null reads. No scumreads at all. Compare that to LightningStrike's first post in this game. Notice the similarities? He actually doesn't provide a scumread for the entire game. Almost all of his filter is asking questions. The vast majority of his reads are in this one post. LightningStrike didn't do anything to change the thread activity, he isn't pressuring anyone. LightningStrike is actually a good lynch here. ##unvote ##vote LightningStrike Here is Damdred's response to my case from Newbie Student Mafia VIII: On April 21 2015 03:59 Damdred wrote: Dismissing this case by saying "that's not how you read LightningStrike" seems to be extremely contradictory to Damdred bringing up the same case in this game. I realize that Damdred focused on the "big list post with no scum reads" part, but the conclusions that I was making from LightningStrike's filter (largely the post... read the filter from that game for yourself and you see that this post was one of the few things of substance in his filter) and the conclusions that Damdred made about LightningStrike this game are very very similar. In this game, Damdred tries to show that LightningStrike is mafia because his only real scum read, on me (Trfel), he backed off of (implying that no scum reads = mafia), which is how he says not to read LightningStrike above.zzzz must of been scum here to. wait he was town. Like I said in guardians that's not how you read ls Am I missing something? Damdred, explanation please? | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 03 2015 06:17 Half the Sky wrote: For the record, Half the Sky, I don't think you understand what I'm trying to get across at all. Maybe my argument is very flawed, but your comments don't respond to the argument that I was attempting to make. I hope to re-explain my argument at a later time.Not sure I like or agree with this post. I might be biased here because I've cohosted two games now with Rels, both of which are themed and both of which require him to know his mechanics in depth. I concluded this post alone was NAI because anyone skilled enough or knowledgeable enough about setup spec can speak to their opinions about what certain roles should and should not do. My opinion based on what I read in the OP/day post was that scum can narrow down the setup as they know their own roles so Rels' post is reasonable based on the fact that if the boxer claims, they can further narrow down the setup. The part about 100% sure on the setup is completely false, based on his saying "there are two possible setups....etc" no they don't know for sure but like I said before they can narrow it down based on how BH (and clearly you know from what you've posted?) assigns the roles in his games in the mafia QT, and that would appear to be Rels argument. I don't know where you are getting "took extra time" (I'm seeing a 10 minute gap between Damdred's and Rels response and from what I'm reading of the thread/their filters, for both players it is their first appearances in the thread, 23:27 and 23:37 respectively) or how you'd know he would have posted that otherwise unless I'm reading that sentence wrong. What I'm trying to say is it appears to me that you are reaching here especially since as Rels hadn't posted yet in the thread so I don't know how you can even assume that. It seems like a few assumptions "if he was around" etc. but even if you are making the argument that 10 minutes is too long for him to construct his post, that's still a poor assumption because when you look at his filter that 23:37 post is the first post he makes in the game. You don't know if he arrives at 23:35, sees that and just churns it out which makes the "completely explained and correct" part a reach on your end as well. @LightningStrike, do you still think that Damdred is town? | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 03 2015 06:19 Damdred wrote: Damdred, how would you characterize the standard MoosyDoosy Day 1 play as described in this post?Yes I've read his filter and its totally NAI. He only really shows his alignment N1 and beyond, its just how he plays. He isn't worth a d1 lynch when 3/4 of the time he will flip town doing this. Also, Damdred, can you please name one or two of MoosyDoosy's very worst town games on TL Mafia? I've been expecting something more like last game and one other (I forget which), you seem to have different expectations, I'd like to get a reference point. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 03 2015 09:59 The Shining wrote: Okay, here we go....Lol wtf? I didn't ignore your arguments, I went and read MDs filter and told you as much and said I couldn't see where or why you were 100% sold on him being scum. His filter was bad but having played with Moosy before, its unfortunate but I could see the uselessness coming from either alignment. The rest of your stuff was a tone/metaread on him and a couple of people chalked it up to a policy lynch, which I'm not a real fan of. And where did I scumread you for unflipped association? This is a clear misrepresentation of what I said. I never said you should be a counter wagon and when Palmar asked me to case you, I said I couldn't because it was a gutread, weak and based on similarities to your last scum game. That's where the scumread came from, it had nothing to do with any association. And it didn't feel stronger than the points Damdred made on LS or the bad switches from kush and DYH. So when did I push you as a counter wagon? On December 03 2015 06:48 The Shining wrote: Unflipped association, trying to protect a scum partner (presumably LightningStrike). Saying that I should be a wagon. Dismissing my arguments with extremely poor logic (I intend to show later why MoosyDoosy's play last game was obviously town, geript did a really great job of explaining it in the game using reasons I'd actually thought of already, just I was twisting them to try and say that MoosyDoosy was scum because I was scum and I wanted to lynch him). Just because MoosyDoosy was nearly lynched doesn't mean that it wasn't obvious, doesn't mean that it wasn't possible to see earlier (geript proved that really well IMO).No he wasn't. He was almost lynched. And you had perfect info from the start of the game as scum. You also pulled this woe is me, no one is listening to me stunt last game. If there was anyone else competing for the lynch with Moosy right now, Id say you were trying to protect a scum partner. Looking at Moosys filter, it looks bad but its nowhere near enough to be 100% sure he's scum like you are. I do apologize, however, I didn't see the last sentence of your quote. I hadn't realized that you actually did look over MoosyDoosy's filter and try to see what I was saying. Which makes the rest of your post make a lot more sense and makes it actually reasonable. My bad. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 03 2015 06:09 Damdred wrote: Next question, what other reads does Damdred refer to in this post?I'm not so sure moosey is mafia. I've given other reads however I think that LS is mafia and I should be sheeped on this. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
I think that the two games look extremely similar to me, thus I think that it makes Damdred likely mafia. I realize that this is subjective and would like to hear what others have to say. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 03 2015 06:38 Damdred wrote: Here's a quote making Damdred's reasons to scumread LightningStrike a little more clear. In this quote, Damdred seems to describe the biggest part of his LightningStrike scumread being that LightningStrike has zero scum reads, which is exactly what he said not to do in a previous game as town.Honestly Palmar I feel pretty strongly about LS I know its a bit of work, but just do me this favor and look at him its 2 pages of filter if that. He has 0 scum reads, he town reads people for little reason showing no fear of me or you who he generally has a great deal of respect/fear for our scum games. Has absolutely no scum reads, has no positions in the thread. Just see if i'm right/wrong and tell me and then if you think i'm so dead wrong we can talk about maybe lynching kush/onegu | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
Half the Sky's reasons for pushing LightningStrike really stuck out to me as well as Damdred's, because they were reasons that don't necessarily apply to LightningStrike. Once I catch up with the thread I'll take a look at Half the Sky's play towards End of Day with regards to LightningStrike (probably tomorrow), but if that's true, then Half the Sky looks really bad. | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
On December 03 2015 14:56 DoYouHas wrote: Yeah, I agree. I played in both games and I know the circumstances and context, and I think they're very similar. I'd like to have Damdred explain why they're different, or at least why something changed, and I'd like to make sure he doesn't get out of answering this one.I will take a look at it tomorrow, but that kind of read is one of my least favorite. Meta works because it is generalized trends in play. Different circumstances, games, and context often makes similar looking quotes do not mean the same thing for alignment. Even if the games seem similar. Gnight folks. At least this time, the reason why it is scummy is extremely obvious, even if it isn't the best reason. My other reasons are better but I can't explain them easily  | ||
|
Trfel
7015 Posts
First, I didn't read all of Half the Sky's filter, but when I was reading through the thread I didn't think that her play around End of Day was anywhere near as bad as DoYouHas describes. Her read progression on LightningStrike there feels really natural and I actually like it a lot. I'd say that 8 minutes until End of Day is the point where I'd really expect her to start looking for another wagon, and although she doesn't do so, 8 minutes isn't a lot of time and she's sick. I'm guessing that a lot of that time was spent reading the thread trying to figure out what's happening, as the post rate was quite high at the time. I have not looked at the general trends in Half the Sky's filter recently, however when I last looked I didn't see too much wrong that couldn't be easily explained by the cold. And like I said, Half the Sky's read progression on LightningStrike felt towny to me. I still think that DoYouHas is a town lean, though I'm not 100% sure. Vote count analysis also suggests that LightningStrike is town, so I'll stop worrying about that for a while anyway. Haven't checked his filter yet, but The Shining feels like he is town. Fidei86 as well, not entirely sure why about Fidei86. He does a ton of things that to me don't seem interested in actually lynching scum but lynching bad, but he's so open about it that it feels genuine. Everyone else says he's an easy read and he is town, so I'll trust that for now. I'd like to see what Half the Sky says about NocturneMage's posts so far. To me, NocturneMage's posts towards Half the Sky look quite scummy, however having never been married (lol youngest player on TL) I don't think I'm able to judge some of the context behind those statements. Fecalfeast feels towny, and this matches my early Onegu first post read. The Fecalfeast read is much stronger, naturally  The callout of NocturneMage is really good, he's raised a bunch of good points, and he's actually reasonable and willing to work with people.I'm really confident on NocturneMage being mafia, and I think that Damdred is also decently likely to be mafia. Feels like Rels may mafia, though I haven't looked at Rels yet and some of his stuff seems really towny. Though, I just remembered his reaction to my case on MoosyDoosy and then he completely forgot about it. If he was really that excited about it (as he seemed to be), he completely dropped it. I can see it from town, but it's a bit suspicious. Furthermore, there's some really stupid unflipped association, but even when I'm really confident unflipped association is still unflipped association There's a very good chance that at least one mafia got through my search, I have been giving townreads fairly easily. But I need to go to bed, I'll look later. | ||
| ||
My name must spread far and wide.
