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Also Kita is town by sheer effort and all that meta business.
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On November 04 2015 04:28 kitaman27 wrote:
Here are my reads so far. I'm sure they will change as time goes on. Admittedly there is a lot of wishy/washy or null reads. I'm still not completely sure about anyone really.
Half the Sky - Leaning town.
At the start of the game, I was concerned with the fact that she essentially posted exactly what I typically hear from scum players 6-12 hours into the game when I rarely choose to participate much. Since then, she has stayed pretty active and shows evidence of reading the thread. At certain points there was a pretty easy opportunity to
Uh, I think you're missing something here Kita.
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Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below:
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/l8XDS/c5b4b0ac75.png)
Things of note after I went through the filters:
-Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it.
-I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff.
-Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this?
-Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much.
Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose.
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On November 04 2015 20:52 Xatalos wrote:
Crap... My phone deleted everything I was writing as I went back to look at filters :/ Now I'll just write from the top of my head..
So yeah, right now I think shockeyy is probably scum (especially if he didn't realize that the votes would be public like sicklucker said..). The remaining scum should be one of HTS/Kita (explained before) and one of Rels/Superbia/Artanis. Tbh Rels hasn't seemed too bad lately considering his constant activity and engagement, while Superbia and Artanis have basically continued semi-lurking for a long time now. Not really confident who there is scum, but that should be resolved as the game progresses.
So overall, not really confident in attempting an all-scum team right now. Probably best just to go with the safe plan of me, rayn and.. sicklucker? He hasn't really done much besides the weird OMGUS on me, but just with PoE, the point about shockeyy and overall his "I don't give a fuck" attitude seem more likely from town IMO. Tentatively:
##Nominate Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker
(That should work?)
I'll be online only very sporadically for a while, but please comment.
I'm actually kind of okay with this.
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Sicklucker do you put any weight in the fact that shockey's the only one throwing suspicion on Rayn? It kinda makes me antsy.
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On November 04 2015 21:01 Xatalos wrote:
You're fine with not being on the mission, Artanis?
I townread all three of you and we're going to have to nominate three people that aren't me in all future missions, so why not?
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On November 04 2015 21:02 sicklucker wrote:
meh I think I have one of the strongest reasons to town read him in my life
You think shockeyy's town?
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On November 04 2015 21:29 Half the Sky wrote:
Work is burying me today (if I'm lucky I'll finish around 2100 today) so quick comments for now.
1 Above team is fine by me. Would vote yes. No issues with any of Xata's explanations on his team selection.
2 I will vote down any team with Rels on it (and almost certainly will be ignoring him as mafia onwards until something to the contrary jumps at me) assuming we are sticking to the conventional approach of nailing the first mission with three town.
3 I passed/scrapped my team to buy more time.
4 Artanis I think you need to re-read my filter. Unless I'm misunderstanding, you had a fear read on me before, not the other way around. my stance on your alignment is null because your RL situation is NAI and I needed more content to re-evaluate you. Seeing as you've posted more content, I'll re-evaluate after work.
5 Regarding the comments on defensiveness my argument is that for someone normally considered a very good town player Rels is scum reading me for things that do not make me Mafia. The basis for his position is actually pretty poor IMO with the caveat he has never played the game so this could explain (if somehow he's actually town) why he's seeing some things the way he is.
There was a point where you said my scum meta is to not post and you seemed to faintly push me with that. I didn't like it.
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On November 04 2015 23:46 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 23:42 Rels wrote:On November 04 2015 20:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below: Things of note after I went through the filters: -Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it. -I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff. -Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this? -Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much. Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose. That is awesome! Thanks for that, that will be useful later. You're probably town for this effort too. Even though the last game he is referring to with this chart was how he tricked people to trust him as mafia?
That's incorrect. I was town, but I did accidentally drive the lynch from scum hopeless onto town deconduo. I think the logic behind it was solid, we just had a scumteam with no real thread presence.
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On November 05 2015 00:02 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 23:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 04 2015 23:46 kitaman27 wrote:On November 04 2015 23:42 Rels wrote:On November 04 2015 20:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below: Things of note after I went through the filters: -Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it. -I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff. -Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this? -Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much. Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose. That is awesome! Thanks for that, that will be useful later. You're probably town for this effort too. Even though the last game he is referring to with this chart was how he tricked people to trust him as mafia? That's incorrect. I was town Heh I'm aware of that. I was waiting to see if anyone was going to hop on it to draw conclusions -_-
Oh, my bad. I'll just be in the corner attempting to actually do work at work.
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On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote:Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me. Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment. Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote:OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline. 1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote:
I instantly retract my townread. On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote:
So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before. 2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote:
Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum? On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia. 3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarishOn November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote:
So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that? ConclusionThat is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative. You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos. This answer: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 06:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote:Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it. This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me): On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance. ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him. Let's break this apart into two pieces: 1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this. 2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense? I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later. I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it. Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment.
I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. At the start of it you mention how you want Rels to walk you through his argument, but then you proceed to trash him and explain your scumread moreso than that you seem to be looking for an explanation. Do you have any questions for him in specific?
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On November 05 2015 00:50 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 00:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote:Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me. Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment. On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote:OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline. 1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote:
I instantly retract my townread. On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote:
So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before. 2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote:
Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum? On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia. 3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarishOn November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote:
So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that? ConclusionThat is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative. You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos. This answer: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 06:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote:Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it. This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me): On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance. ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him. Let's break this apart into two pieces: 1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this. 2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense? I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later. I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it. Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment. I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. At the start of it you mention how you want Rels to walk you through his argument, but then you proceed to trash him and explain your scumread moreso than that you seem to be looking for an explanation. Do you have any questions for him in specific? Read the post the answer quotes. There are questions left unanswered, and the answer is very "uncaring". If that makes sense. I put effort into my post, and the effort in the answer is just, it doesn't fucking tell me anything new.
Alright, okay. Your TMI argument doesn't really make sense to me though. You say he's working from a TMI perspective in which he knows Xata is town and you're scum. Somehow I doubt this is the argument you're actually trying to make.
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Oh wait I think I know how you meant it but that isn't really TMI, more not being interested in actually finding out alignments.
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On November 05 2015 00:55 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 00:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 05 2015 00:50 Superbia wrote:On November 05 2015 00:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote:Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me. Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment. On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote:OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline. 1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote:
I instantly retract my townread. On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote:
So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before. 2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote:
Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum? On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia. 3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarishOn November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote:
So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that? ConclusionThat is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative. You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos. This answer: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 06:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote:Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it. This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me): On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance. ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him. Let's break this apart into two pieces: 1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this. 2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense? I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later. I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it. Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment. I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. At the start of it you mention how you want Rels to walk you through his argument, but then you proceed to trash him and explain your scumread moreso than that you seem to be looking for an explanation. Do you have any questions for him in specific? Read the post the answer quotes. There are questions left unanswered, and the answer is very "uncaring". If that makes sense. I put effort into my post, and the effort in the answer is just, it doesn't fucking tell me anything new. Alright, okay. Your TMI argument doesn't really make sense to me though. You say he's working from a TMI perspective in which he knows Xata is town and you're scum. Somehow I doubt this is the argument you're actually trying to make. My initial problem with rels (the TMI one) is this: - He starts off by saying he will "eventually" read Xat (d3 or so, iirc). - He scum-reads on me for the reasoning he has given, but that reasoning strictly works if Xat is town (But he has no read on him?). That was my initial TMI read on Rels. It may still be true, but I'm mainly focused on the fact that is he hammering this shit home, even though he should've either re-evaluated or evolved his read from here.
Yeah I understood it later. I can see the issue.
Rels, did you not have a read on Xata at all yet?
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I actually think the argument has gone off base so far that its depleted its usefulness and we should move onto more productive things.
Superbia, you indicated you think Kita is scum for how he read you. Is there anything else you dislike about him? What do you think about the rest of his reads?
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Honestly, I can see you scumreading a scumbuddy for illogical reasons in this game since there's no flips and the only thing that really matters is being townread yourself. I'd argue however that you have to believe in your argument to make it since the only purpose of the argument would be to make yourself look good.
I don't really like how Rels has approached you but I do think he's nibbling at so many different things that it probably makes him town and I do urge you to re-eval him if you are town (which I'm kinda starting to think, which means one of my townreads is wrong and bleh)
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Also I'm pretty sure Kita is town due to how his reads post just makes sense. I'd expect him to scumread you if he was scum and you're town as he set himself up to do so very easily. There's also the fact that he didn't actually bury shockeyy despite easily having the opportunity to.
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On November 05 2015 01:12 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 01:06 Superbia wrote:On November 05 2015 00:58 Rels wrote:On November 05 2015 00:55 Superbia wrote:On November 05 2015 00:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 05 2015 00:50 Superbia wrote:On November 05 2015 00:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote:Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me. Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment. On November 02 2015 23:16 Rels wrote:OK this tire me so let's lay out what happened. Timeline. 1. Superbia scumreads Xata for saying "playing scum is a nightmare".On November 02 2015 08:18 Superbia wrote:
I instantly retract my townread. On November 02 2015 08:20 Superbia wrote:
So it's in no way a "nightmare" for "them". Which you should know, since you have played the game before. 2. Superbia asks Xata if he really thinks it's a nightmare, Xata kinda confirms.On November 02 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote:
Do you really think this game is a nightmare for scum? On November 02 2015 08:35 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, I think it should be somewhat anti-scum. In the way that IRL Resistance is pretty balanced, but here it's much easier for town to communicate properly than IRL, whereas the scumteam can't communicate at all like usual in forum Mafia. 3. Superbia uses this to make Xatalos say something he didn't: that being scum isn't nightmarishOn November 02 2015 08:39 Superbia wrote:
So now that we've correctly concluded that you don't believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. Why did you open with that? ConclusionThat is the problem with Superbia's early play; twisting Xatalos' words to something he didn't mean. Now he turned that read around to townread Xatalos, and rayn is claiming it's not suspicous, which might be right. But this word-twisting stuff is scum indicative. You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos. This answer: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 06:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote:Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it. This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me): On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance. ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him. Let's break this apart into two pieces: 1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this. 2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense? I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later. I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it. Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment. I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. At the start of it you mention how you want Rels to walk you through his argument, but then you proceed to trash him and explain your scumread moreso than that you seem to be looking for an explanation. Do you have any questions for him in specific? Read the post the answer quotes. There are questions left unanswered, and the answer is very "uncaring". If that makes sense. I put effort into my post, and the effort in the answer is just, it doesn't fucking tell me anything new. Alright, okay. Your TMI argument doesn't really make sense to me though. You say he's working from a TMI perspective in which he knows Xata is town and you're scum. Somehow I doubt this is the argument you're actually trying to make. My initial problem with rels (the TMI one) is this: - He starts off by saying he will "eventually" read Xat (d3 or so, iirc). - He scum-reads on me for the reasoning he has given, but that reasoning strictly works if Xat is town (But he has no read on him?). False. The read is based on something illogical, and has not link with Xata's alignement. Has an absolute link with Xata's alignment. I am pushing Xata for something you deem illogical. Fair enough, but the scum-read indicates Xata is town. Else I am scum-reading Scum-Xata as scum for an illogical reason- why? On November 05 2015 00:58 Rels wrote:On November 05 2015 00:55 Superbia wrote:
That was my initial TMI read on Rels. It may still be true, but I'm mainly focused on the fact that is he hammering this shit home, even though he should've either re-evaluated or evolved his read from here. False. I just said it was a small scum indication and that I was waiting to see where Superbia would do next. You have been unable to properly evaluate my early-play, even though I have walked through it and explained it, in a post you have conveniently pretty much ignored. Have been ignoring my queries to in-depth evaluate it and other questions (which I cannot recall, but they were probably important). Moreover, you have put 0 effort from that point on to evaluate me in any sort of way (from what I can tell). Like my fucking nightmare scenario in this game is if you are actually town -as I am evaluating this game from the point of view in which you are mafia- but I cannot believe it at this point in time. Don't talk to me scum. You're using this excuse to completely shut up about anything else. GTFO or talk about something else.
Do you have to be this obtuse? Can't we all just be nice? :/
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On November 05 2015 01:22 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 01:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 05 2015 01:12 Rels wrote:On November 05 2015 01:06 Superbia wrote:On November 05 2015 00:58 Rels wrote:On November 05 2015 00:55 Superbia wrote:On November 05 2015 00:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 05 2015 00:50 Superbia wrote:On November 05 2015 00:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote:Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me. Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment. [quote] You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos. This answer: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 06:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 06:30 Superbia wrote:Rels have you even read my post explain the whole Xat thing? Every single point you're bringing up (as far as I'm reading - p16) seems to be your own weird interpretation on things and I am really disliking it. This post in particular is incredibly loaded with your own interpretation, and it really feels like you're driving an agenda here (i.e. to scum-push me): On November 02 2015 22:34 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance. ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. I find this super convenient. Superbia started by scumreading Xata for the nightmare thing, which is understandable. Then there was the "is it still nightmarish ?" "kinda" "now that you've said it's not nightmarish anymore ..." scumread which was super weird. And now that rayn thinks Xata is town for meta, suddenly Xata is town for Superbia too, and I have TMI on him. Let's break this apart into two pieces: 1. My secondary post on the whole nightmare-ish part is putting into words what I had already expected to have been inside Xatalos' head- that he did not believe it is a "nightmare" for scum. I have explained this. 2. Your TMI has nothing to do with my read on Xatalos whatsoever. The blatant fucking fact is that you are evaluating me for interactions with Xatalos without giving a read on Xatalos. What if he's mafia? Does that change anything for your read on me?Side note. You exclaim that me beginning to lean town on Xatalos is super convient. In what way? If I am scum, what am I achieving here? Keep in mind that you still have no read on Xatalos (right?). So in what way is me, calling a null for you, super convenient?Rels, kindly answer the bolded questions and the following: - Please explain, in detail, how what you perceived to be my push on Xatalos makes me mafia. - How was my explanation on the matter inadequate? What did not make sense? I think there was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot. Maybe I'll remember it later. I've already discarded the "you town read on Xatalos is convenient" stuff, it wasn't scum indicative. Your read on Xatalos is weird because it is not based on logic. Xatalos is saying it's kinda nightmarish to be scum => you say he said the inverse. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. It makes sense from a scum perspective that decided to scumread Xatalos, and is twisting things to keep it. Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment. I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. At the start of it you mention how you want Rels to walk you through his argument, but then you proceed to trash him and explain your scumread moreso than that you seem to be looking for an explanation. Do you have any questions for him in specific? Read the post the answer quotes. There are questions left unanswered, and the answer is very "uncaring". If that makes sense. I put effort into my post, and the effort in the answer is just, it doesn't fucking tell me anything new. Alright, okay. Your TMI argument doesn't really make sense to me though. You say he's working from a TMI perspective in which he knows Xata is town and you're scum. Somehow I doubt this is the argument you're actually trying to make. My initial problem with rels (the TMI one) is this: - He starts off by saying he will "eventually" read Xat (d3 or so, iirc). - He scum-reads on me for the reasoning he has given, but that reasoning strictly works if Xat is town (But he has no read on him?). False. The read is based on something illogical, and has not link with Xata's alignement. Has an absolute link with Xata's alignment. I am pushing Xata for something you deem illogical. Fair enough, but the scum-read indicates Xata is town. Else I am scum-reading Scum-Xata as scum for an illogical reason- why? On November 05 2015 00:58 Rels wrote:On November 05 2015 00:55 Superbia wrote:
That was my initial TMI read on Rels. It may still be true, but I'm mainly focused on the fact that is he hammering this shit home, even though he should've either re-evaluated or evolved his read from here. False. I just said it was a small scum indication and that I was waiting to see where Superbia would do next. You have been unable to properly evaluate my early-play, even though I have walked through it and explained it, in a post you have conveniently pretty much ignored. Have been ignoring my queries to in-depth evaluate it and other questions (which I cannot recall, but they were probably important). Moreover, you have put 0 effort from that point on to evaluate me in any sort of way (from what I can tell). Like my fucking nightmare scenario in this game is if you are actually town -as I am evaluating this game from the point of view in which you are mafia- but I cannot believe it at this point in time. Don't talk to me scum. You're using this excuse to completely shut up about anything else. GTFO or talk about something else. Do you have to be this obtuse? Can't we all just be nice? :/ I'm obtuse ??????? The guy comes back after two days of fucking nothing, is still blabing about the same stuff, and don't answer your questions. Now he found the perfect excuse to scumread me and not talk about anything else. Why are starting to think he's town ? Because he gets angry ?
He's either mad because he's scum in which case you have no reason to be mad at him for playing to his win condition, or he's mad because he's being tunneled wrongfully. Neither is really anything you should be mad at him about.
I think he might be town because he seems to really believe in what he's saying. I don't think there's any other reason to stretch it as much as he has.
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On November 05 2015 01:26 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 01:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I actually think the argument has gone off base so far that its depleted its usefulness and we should move onto more productive things.
Superbia, you indicated you think Kita is scum for how he read you. Is there anything else you dislike about him? What do you think about the rest of his reads? Perhaps you are right in this argument. In any case we should probably not pursue it any further now as it will not help me evaluate Rels in any sort of way. Kita is still up in the air at this point, he's not in my town circle. (My PoE scum list is: Rels, Shockey, Kita, Sicklucker, HtS/maybe you) I'm mostly going off the votes here: - There's a general feel that it is obvious most people will vote no- so scum (as having no QT) are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.). - Mafia are very likely to vote yes on a mission with a mafia. Unless the consensus is against it. Consensus takes heavy priority over everything for mafia. - Mafia are somewhat likely to vote no on a mission with only town. They can vote yes to look good, especially early on. This can very easily go against consensus ("see, I told you the mission would pass!"). - Mafia are very likely to vote no on a mission with only town, if the situation is dire. - Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either. So: If the team consisted of town, and my PoE is correct: - Mafia is likely: Rels, shockey, sicklucker. If the team had a mafia, and my PoE is correct: - Mafia is likely: Rels, Kita, Shockey/SL. OR Rels, HtS (who would attempt to frame Kita), shockey/SL. Alternate world would include both HtS and Kita but eh. Could be, but I don't think so atm. I think rayn's argument as to kita trying to influence the team a lot near deadline is good. I think the fact that none of the team-members votes for the team to pass leans towards a scum being on the team (scum votes as consensus, town votes what they believe, the fact that no one in the team believed therefore leans me more towards a scum being in the team).
I'm confused why you put me as a maybe yet didn't include me in any potential scumteam. Also, putting rels in every team; are you that certain at this point?
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EPT
