EPTOn November 14 2015 08:01 kitaman27 wrote:
Crazy stuff happening in France. Hope everything is alright Rels.
Crazy stuff happening in France. Hope everything is alright Rels.
OH SHIT. Oh wow. I really hope you are okay.
[T][M] Resistance V - Section 31 - Page 22
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OH SHIT. Oh wow. I really hope you are okay. | ||
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On November 14 2015 08:08 Rels wrote: Thanks mates that touch me a lot. I'm OK. Fuck them all THANK GOD, I was worried knowing what I know about you (outside this game). I'm so sorry and I hope everyone is safe. | ||
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On November 14 2015 21:18 Xatalos wrote: HTS is the most likely other scum yeah. Her terrible vote record and bullshit reasons to push me/rayn after the first fail should be reason enough. The last scum I'm not sure about atm. I thought it was Rels, but then he voted NO to the team just now....... Hm. I guess it could be Artanis as well. His vote record approaches HTS levels of bad if we include this most recent vote. It's probably not you, also considering the most recent vote as well. Meh. But SL/HTS I'm like 95+% are scum at least. Hahahahahahaha!!!!! I have never once scumread Rayn. Hilarious. | ||
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On November 14 2015 22:17 Vivax wrote: Fair point, I shall revisit HTS. But it would mean that I'm wrong on kita and that's kinda tough cause I always had a bad feeling about him. Tinfoil request accepted. Coag might as well not have voted anything and have defaulted to no on the last mission. Maybe spies missed a victory just cause he's a lazy bum lolz. Fidei said he didn't receive all the votes. Vivax In both cases I explained why I voted for the failed teams. And if it comes to it I can come up with the teams you need that leave myself off. The scumteam are Xata/Rels/Kita so its super easy to sort out the rest. What I suggest you look at is the rationale leading up to the failed votes. Xatalos should have never voted mission 2 on for all the reservations he had. Also extra town points to you (Vivax) for the smokescreen...not like you needed them. I have no idea tbf what Coagulation is doing though. | ||
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I am sure rayn had the same rationale or explained why he was doing what he was doing prior to voting for the failed missions. | ||
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I also recall sicklucker and I calling out people right when the mission 2 team votes passed and we knew immediately the team would fail. He mentioned something about Rels should have never passed the team based on his reads but there I honestly cannot remember why. Xatalos was more obvious because I'd actually caught it and he put the frame of reference on "sicklucker/myself upvoting the team" rather than what he thought of Kita Rels when Rayn queried him. | ||
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AFK for a 15km run then I will be in and out. | ||
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On November 14 2015 19:37 sicklucker wrote: So all this analyst confirms that the scum team is xata/rels/kits + an outside chance of vivax but this is less likely because he had a very good inthread excuse to vote. I think if hes mafia here he would have voted yes so acualy im pretty sure on vivax vivax can be town. Art is also likely town but his yes vote is worrisome since his last inthread posts were talking about how he cant vote yes because of me. But his most likely partner is hts. Hts is probably on my mission so including art is not the worst. Replacing coag with art is possible. That leaves me with coag. im not as sure as the rest of you that hes town but there are obvious meta reasons to think thats the case. While I originally wanted to include him im thinking I might not just because the last team seemed pure already based on votes. He was on both missions and there is weird worlds were he is scum with the no voters. one of ryan/art will have ot be included on mission 4/5 anyway so I dont think it matters much if we put one of the two on the missions. Acualy since we need 5 confirmed towns heres what I promise to do on my noms. I will try to nominate a team of 4 that does not include myself. This will confirm me (again) and the 4 people who I submitted. This will give us 5 confirmed towns and force the scum the concede earlier and make you morons less suspicious of me since im not submitting myself. But if I have doubts I will include myself 100% agreed. btw | ||
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On November 14 2015 22:49 Xatalos wrote: Much like shockeyy, you never directly called him scum, but made a lot of posts putting suspicion on him. rayn himself at least was sure that you pushed him. Stop distorting the facts. I explained multiple times over that rayn's behaviour was TOXIC but NON ALIGNMENT INDICTATIVE. I also fuether defined what i meant by toxic for town. This was because at the time I felt Shockey was wrongfully scumreading him. Shockley's conclusion was reasonable as Mafia do prefer to shit up the thread at times but he doesn't know rayn's meta and there's where I did examples. Rayn saying that I was scumreading him (and I told him it was not true either) was because he cannot take any criticism of his play and it had ZERO to do with determining alignments. I corrected him as well. Fair bit of reaching you are doing there. | ||
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as for Kita's voting record, again disassociation. Same thing I told with Rels and sicklucker called the same thing out earlier, Rels voting no alone will not vindicate him. The SAME applies for Kita. All you people need to do is ensure but one Mafia get on a team and then cruise on that regardless of who voted what. The voting records are one set of data points, filters/reads etc are a big part as well. | ||
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Why do you think I was trying to convince Shockey out of the tunnel? In what world does that make sense if I thought Rayn was scum? Please. This is pretty pathetic from you because you are scumreading me based on fallacy. | ||
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On November 14 2015 23:13 Xatalos wrote: Look in the mirror  None of your reasons to scumread me have made the slightest amount of sense.It's also pointless for you to say that you "never scumread him" when a lot of your posts are about putting suspicion on him / discrediting him. You can say that all you want since you are a spy...except I'm actually reading threads and pulling shit together and you're coming up with entirely fabricated reasons but whatever. Lol. Not once any suspicion on him being mafia, and discrediting him for this game was BEHAVIOUR BASED NOT ALIGNMENT BASED. "Not read based not I felt he was wrong based." And most people here are smart enough to know his meta but Shockey was unfamiliar. His behaviour destroys towns in a manner that is NAI. IF you want to keep stretching the truth on that one go right ahead. | ||
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On November 14 2015 23:14 sicklucker wrote: thats a good point but i would expect coag to no vote that if hes town again well done Vivax. Now I'm going on my run. | ||
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On November 14 2015 22:51 Xatalos wrote: Btw I did explain why I voted like I did. SL's auto-nomination would have been a surefire way to lose. At least that team had hope. But you haven't read my posts in ages anyway so whatever. No, that was you not answering rayn's question as to Kita/Rels - AND RAYN CALLED YOU OUT ON THAT HIMSELF. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=112#2225 YOU EVADED HIS QUESTION. | ||
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On November 14 2015 22:55 Xatalos wrote: Not really sure why you call kita scum when he has voted against every failing team while you have voted FOR every failing team without even being included in them And on pretty shaky grounds such as voting in SL even though you suspected him to be scum at the time, and Rels whom you had scumread up to that point.You conveniently forget that I re-read Rels' filter to see if I could see town motivation in his filter and I did prior to voting. I also made it VERY clear what votes I was putting in with the team prior to upvoting or downvoting and (IIRC most cases) why. It should be VERY easy to follow and if anyone wanted to stop me or protest my logic they should have. I made a mistake - and I admitted it right away - not fully tinfoiling Kita, but with Rels on the team, it would have been a moot point anyways. The other funny thing is that you and Rels are pushing the same angle, relying on the voting records (and hyperfocusing on them) and pretty much nothing else. That is a red flag, because it is not the only thing that comprises this game. Like I have said before if people feel my votes disqualify me and they don't understand my explanations or my re-evaluations, I will come up with teams without me to achieve the victory for town. | ||
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On November 14 2015 23:25 kitaman27 wrote: Riddle me this, if there were two spies on the second mission where did me and Rels coordinate how to avoid the double sabotage? We chose to pass it, so there had to be some secret communication to avoid essentially loosing the game automatically, yet there was only one sabotage. It's very rare for a scum team to upvote a double spy mission because of this reason. No coordination is needed. If I recall correctly, it was also discussed prior to the game that the spy at/closer to the top of the list would be the one to pull it off. It was hashed out by Artanis and rayn. Posts #67 and #69 of the thread. | ||
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On November 15 2015 00:50 Xatalos wrote: SL is HTS's #2 suspect here after Rels..... Vote justified anyway just because Rels disagrees with the team. Townreading me/rayn. Putting some suspicion on rayn for a bit.. But it doesn't really work out too well, so next is me.... Even though SL was the main suspect of us 3 before, now he's off bounds somehow. Well, here's the main argument. That I decided SL was scum rather than rayn too "quickly". But rayn decided that even faster.... So ?????? It just doesn't make sense. I did at least entertain the possibility of rayn being scum, but I never really thought that was the case, and my filter dive confirmed my stance there. I was pretty sure it would be SL if the mission somehow failed. This is where it really starts going downhill. Read this post and the following posts to see why. Nothing fits this argument more than "absolute bullshit". And the following new arguments are pretty much the same. Alright, to answer these points. 1 First your "vote justified...." doesn't account for the fact I townread you up to that point (first sentence of quoted post, I had reason to townread you anyhow). Additionally, rayn made the same point that scummy people wanted sicklucker out for Rels. So what on that note alone made him more town than myself making the same point? 2 It would be negligent to not question potential scum motives on rayn after the failture. Did I push them? No. Kita answered the questions (or someone did) and if there's no mafia motivation, of course I'd drop them. I wanted discussion and I wasn't going to push rayn unless there was actually evidence of such a mindset. It is a town tell to express some scepticism which is what I did. I said it before (post 1850). It is a known fact for anyone familiar with rayn that rayn does not take well to being scumread or to me doubting him in any way. I did it, it didn't check out, I moved on. rayn suspecting me does not mean he's right, nor does it mean I'm scum. He was wrong on me in Titanic (and got mislynched for it, mafia took advantage of my tunnel on rayn) and he was wrong on me here. 3 rayn townreading you (and stickling to it) is the type of thing he will do, he has his one way of thinking - many players agree on this - and I know he said a few times early on "Xatalos is confirmed town" (erroneously). Anyways, he is the type of player who doesn't change his reads much if he thinks the player is being "logical" enough. At that point in time, he was scumreading both Shockey and myself pretty hard, and did not change his reads on us at any point in the game until he was modkilled. I know the very last thing he said about both of us was that (paraphrasing) "and I keep coming back to how Shockey and HTS are so scummy because of everything they post..." .....but this is because rayn plays the game very different from either of us so he will say things like that. The meta expectations for both of you are different because you play the game differently and this is the same argument I made in defence of sicklucker. Using a different example, Artanis is/was scumreading you for not re-evaluating on me. The biggest difference between you and rayn is that rayn will not re-evaluate if he feels there are more scummy townies. And that is typical town rayn. (And I know I'm not the only one who said this either.) 4 Regarding the last quote I told Rels (because I beleive he queried me on it too) that it was possible I could have misunderstood you regarding the first mission and I spliced the words for a double take. At this point in time I am pushing you harder on Mission #2 (posts 2363/(my 6000th post)/2990). You cast doubt on sicklucker and myself upvoting the team, and took attention off your own scummates. THAT IS MAFIA MOTIVATED. 5 A few other people drew into question your reads - #2361 and 2362. I keep forgetting those posts. Finally, again, if people are so scared of me, I can come up with 4- and 5-player teams without myself on it that suit the town agenda. You (from your recent posts) can not. | ||
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Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel) Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four. I have nothing to hide. | ||
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On November 15 2015 01:53 Xatalos wrote: Hm, so I assume you've dropped the earlier arguments by now then? It's just hard to tell because it's a continuous push where you switch arguments whenever you can, and kind of leave the earlier arguments hanging in there. I think you said you haven't seen my towngame, so I'd say you're unqualified to talk about my towngame in any case. I usually stick to my reads as town, unless there's heavy reason to reconsider. Your vote record and push on me have kept being awful, so... That latter argument "I took attention off my teammates" is just unflipped association. You just assume someone is scum and I'm scum when I'm not scumreading them (at least as much as you are). Not very convincing. The point I tried to make and I did in my earlier post is that you failed to answer any question or take a stance on Kita or Rels prior to the team going up. "It's not the best and it's not the worst" simply means it's easier for you to evade accountability regardless of anyone's alignment. The answer you simply gave to rayn was poor irrespective of their alignments. | ||
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You basically said Kita had more credibility based off an associative read. On November 10 2015 23:39 Xatalos wrote: The NO votes look good for you two, it's just not on the level of a confident townread. Kita for being so vague and non-committal throughout the game, and you because your recent scumgames looked pretty similar to this game too (very active and engaged..). Now that I think about it, though, scum HTS would have had no good reason to put scum Kita into the first team.... So that gives kita a bit more credibility at least. (post 2232) You even said that Kita was vague and noncomittal. Irrespective of your read on me you should have voted this team down. I was negligent with Kita and I openly admitted that. I fucked that one up. Rels when I re-evaluated him, I was wrong in my evaluation. But with (now knowing) two on the team it was moot. Even if I HAD tinfoiled Kita, I would have fucked up on Rels still. In any case, if you had reasonable doubt, you should have proposed an alternative to those two players or searched for one. Not fade out (yes I read from there to page 115 which was end of phase) and pass the team. | ||
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