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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 10 2015 06:46 Vivax wrote:
I'm vigilant about kita as he's one of the people I can get really paranoid about. I have a history of reading him correctly too so until I get to do that and given that his first posts in the game didn't really scream town to me, I'd prefer to not have him on a mission for now.
I'd be fine with rayn/me/shockey/Rels
How does your paranoia in past games have anything to do with my alignment this game? -_-
If you're going to justify my exclusion, there better be a solid case explaining why.
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Anyways you are not gonna convince me that you are town so go convince others.
You are wasting your time talking to me as either alignment.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Artanis, what do you think about HTS's post? (#2170)
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"2 scum sicklucker would be playing too suboptimally, that is, giving too much information away if he was just knocking down nominations until his turn came up. "
Isn't voting NO on everything until his own leadership just refraining from giving away information... His votes will mean nothing, and his own (failed) team won't be voted for either..... So there really isn't any information to be gained either from his own votes or the formation of his own team....
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Can't really see where that means playing "suboptimally" for scum at all.
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HtS is scum because of two reasons:
- there are at least seven instances where she displays she is not reading the thread properly and just saying stuff that is completely incorrect
- she is purposefully trying to antagonize me. the stuff she points out is completely wrong and i am gonna go into this tomorrow in more detail, i just don't care to post and dig stuff up rn. Even if she is delusional enough to actually believe in what she says the fact is she reads me town and she has shown she knows what saying things like that (bashing on my play -- especially in games where i actually have played well) do to me. There is absolutely no town motivation to purposefully try to antagonize your townreads. That is a fact. There is only scum motive for that --> to try to make me play not optimally.
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Then there is this scumbag. There are more reasons which i will also go into more detail into later on, but for starters.
On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Last time i am going to post this:
Here is why ShoCkeyy is mafia:First of all these things go together: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission. Xatalos is null -> that means he has to townread the people i colored green in the post. There is no other possible way he says this. On November 03 2015 22:37 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
ShoCkeyy do you agree you, kitaman and Rels should go to the first mission? Yea sure why not, I have a better feeling about kitaman and rels than I do of you... Townreads on kitaman and Rels. On November 04 2015 04:52 ShoCkeyy wrote:
@kita you summed it up here:
"He doesn't seem comfortable giving out statements which he isn't confident about. This could either mean that truly isn't sure and wants more time until it is clear or that he doesn't want to make a statement that could backfire later on in the game."
And also, I have been looking into rayn's previous games. Another thing, I don't need to be on a team, I already know I'm town, so when ever I do get on a team I'll be a 33% chance that it will pass. My current focus atm is trying to find town so when I vote for the teams, I know I'm voting confidently. Look at the bolded part in this post for further reference. On November 05 2015 02:11 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 20:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below: ![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/l8XDS/c5b4b0ac75.png) Things of note after I went through the filters: -Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it. -I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff. -Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this? -Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much. Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose. You missed that I town read you and rels also. Another thing, why would I say I don't need to get on a team if I was mafia? Wouldn't I want to be on a team if I was mafia in order to sabotage?... You guys don't make any sense. I also don't need to place myself on my own team if I'm confident on who is town. Back to work. Now from these posts we can gather the following: Everyone except rayn/Xatalos/sicklucker is townreads. I don't give a fuck if the dude says "i didn't actually say that" because that is just bullshit. If he townreads five people and he is himself town that literally means he thinks the rest of the people are likely to be mafia. Now let's go to this, what i bolded earlier: Show nested quote +My current focus atm is trying to find town so when I vote for the teams, I know I'm voting confidently. Okay so in his opinion, he has found the townies. This doesn't go along with how he ACTUALLY votes for the HtS team. For two reasons: 1) He "knows" there is scum on the team. In fact he should assume there is two scum (me/Xatalos). Yet he still votes yes, while earlier on saying he will refuse that team. 2) Now if he wants to be "tricky" and yay-vote the team because there are 2 scum in it, that would be okay. But that's not why he says he yay-voted it (i could have somehow understood that explanation). To elaborate further onto this all. Shockeyy was okay with there being 1 scum on the team while saying his current focus is finding town -- that doesn't really go along with what he said earlier. A reasonable explanation for the yay-vote should have been "in fact it's better that there are 2 or even 3 scum on the team, as long as we don't send any of those people onto further mission". That's not however his explanation. Onto Xatalos' team. In Shockeyy's opinion this mission had three scum in it. Yet he refused to yay-vote it. Again, his stance is: Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 23:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:Idk why it's so hard for people to understand I knew the votes would be visible... Also it's not hard to look through my filter. On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission. The lineup when I voted was HtS, Xata and Kita, which I was perfectly fine with. Also, a bit more on my strategy. Losing the first one is a big deal to me, because then we have 1 out of 3 that have to be mafia. We just do not ever send any of them to any missions. After there will be three missions that are ready to be won since the fourth one needs at least 2 mafia members and we know of already one by then who hasn't gone on any other missions. Obviously there will be two more, as well, but with this game dragging out, it'll eventually be easy to spot them. ... now if he actually believes all of me/Xatalos/SL are mafia, he should upvote this team. Just because then we don't send any of them into further mission --> the town wins, since the town will automatically pick 4 town whoever they pick. Then when the mission passes, the same team gets picked again. Then when the mission passes who cares who is picked onto mission 4. The other possibility is he doesn't actually townread the people he says he townreads, which also doesn't make any sense. TLDR;- His approach to how he votes doesn't line up with WHY he acts in some way in some situations and in another way in other situations. - He doesn't really give any reasoning to his reads. The only reasoning he gives is the scumreads on me and Xatalos, and "he is angry", "they are in the thread at the same time", "they both suspected Rels" is not a reason to scumread anyone. - When he is called out of his reads, he says "i didn't really call you scum" -- i think everyone can see why this is literally bullshit, kitaman already pointed this out.
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On November 10 2015 06:46 Vivax wrote:I think rayn and shockey are both town. Xata and SL must not be on the mission. That's good so far, they both look craptastic. I'm not sure who of them more with my current knowledge. I just noticed SL posting that if I don't rat him out we can be friends, something an actual mafioso would probably say. Show nested quote +On November 10 2015 05:53 Rels wrote:
rayn though: please consider switching Superbia to shockey unless Vivax amazes everybody. He's the only NO voter I'm doubtful about. Rels looks good too just for saying this cause knowing I'm town and thinking Shockey is too, I just see no point for a spy to tell rayn to swap out a town for another town (unless speculative wifom planting which is something I don't see here). I'm vigilant about kita as he's one of the people I can get really paranoid about. I have a history of reading him correctly too so until I get to do that and given that his first posts in the game didn't really scream town to me, I'd prefer to not have him on a mission for now. I'd be fine with rayn/me/shockey/Rels
I like that post.
Good night all (=
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And then there is this:
On November 08 2015 01:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 00:51 Xatalos wrote:
rayn, would be nice if you explained what's the logic behind excluding us two? Just so that the mission is more likely to be voted YES? I don't think it makes sense to make people vote YES at the expense of more likely including scum :/ We still have several leader cycles after all, and you're even next in order yourself.
You mean this? Because i can't be 100% sure of which of you two is mafia. If you think Shockeyy/HtS/SL is the scumteam why are you not okay with the current team? Like neither of you is okay with the current team so i think the team is all town. 
I tried to get a nomination of Artanis/Rels/kitaman/Superbia onto a mission.
Both of sicklucker and Xatalos (=one scum in there) instantly refused to vote yes on this team. Literally they were the first players to give an opinion. Now i know for a fact there is one (or two, but that doesn't even matter) scum between them.
Both of them had no real reason to say no in the first place, because their reads on some of those people were not clear. But the fact is that AT LEAST ONE MAFIA instantly refused to send those four people onto a mission without "proper" reasons, which makes me think the team is all town.
Now i don't - again - care, which one of them had some sort of thought process in their hear and is (probably) town, but i DO know one mafia refused a team that would be most likely yay-voted AND they could not be blamed on it.
So yeah, i am pretty sure that's the name of the game here.
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On November 03 2015 22:46 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I don't even have my full scum team list yet, I don't think anybody has a full scum team list yet, but some how you already do which further fuels my suspicion against you.
I refuse to believe somebody could be mafia and say this xD
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On November 09 2015 07:01 Rels wrote:
No here is why arta is probably scum:
- voting yes to a failure team while not in said failure team
- his read on me is super convenient and is based on nothing strong
- he nominated a team without me; rayn tells him to nominate me; he argues that he thinks I am scum, then he nominates me anyway
I wanted to ask you about this:
I don't think the first two reasons are really good. Or like if you think they are then based on (2) you should probably be scum for your case at the start of the game. (1) is non-alignment indicative in itself. (3) is the most important thing i wanted to ask you about:
Why do you think it's scum indicative for Artanis to nominate you instead of me when i ask? Like in your world you should think you are town, right? Now you must at least entertain a possibility that i am mafia based on mission 1. So in your opinion Artanis is switching a "not sure town" to "sure town". Why does he do that as scum? There is absolutely zero reason he would do that so that he could blame you if the mission fails because both me and kitaman already read you as town. I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that's alignment indicative -- not to even mention scummy.
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raynpelikoneet has nominated the following team for Mission 2:
raynpelikoneet, kitaman, Rels, Vivax
Please PM your votes to myself and Ticktock. You may switch your vote as often as you like, until the deadline.
Deadline is in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00)
on 10 November.
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About to go to bed here but you meant Vivax instead of Superbia, no?
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On November 10 2015 07:16 Xatalos wrote:
"2 scum sicklucker would be playing too suboptimally, that is, giving too much information away if he was just knocking down nominations until his turn came up. "
Isn't voting NO on everything until his own leadership just refraining from giving away information... His votes will mean nothing, and his own (failed) team won't be voted for either..... So there really isn't any information to be gained either from his own votes or the formation of his own team....
Voting no on everything (at least without explanation) looks scummy but more critically, his own team will be forced to mission as it won't be put up to a vote, period. It's the equivalent of a yes vote as he's the 5th mission holder, so he can force whatever team he wants.
One mission has failed. If his mission fails, that's where the information is gained, from a second failed mission.
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So looks like we need to see more from Vivax and then will need to tinfoil Kita, but at the moment (operative words being at the moment) I would upvote this team.
Kita, any followup, shout (#2183). I warn you as I did Rels, work is going to bury me tomorrow (0800-2200 again FML), but I'll do my best.
Good night.
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On November 10 2015 06:23 Xatalos wrote:
Is this the final team rayn? Could you replace kita/Rels with myself and perhaps Artanis?
It's just saddening that even though that would improve the chances of success, it would also decrease the chances of the team being approved :/
And then there's shockeyy/Rels/SL's teams coming up.......... I doubt shockeyy/Rels's teams would either get approved or succeed, and SL would just automatically make a failing team... Sigh.
holy shit i might vote yes just to see if the scum team is like xata art +1
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On November 10 2015 06:23 Xatalos wrote:
Is this the final team rayn? Could you replace kita/Rels with myself and perhaps Artanis?
It's just saddening that even though that would improve the chances of success, it would also decrease the chances of the team being approved :/
And then there's shockeyy/Rels/SL's teams coming up.......... I doubt shockeyy/Rels's teams would either get approved or succeed, and SL would just automatically make a failing team... Sigh.
see scum knows whats going down and there scared
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On November 09 2015 23:23 Xatalos wrote:
You lost me Artanis >.>
And HTS.... There's just no basis for your push on me. You say I "TMI"d rayn when the team failed, but if you didn't miss it, I townread him pretty heavily from like the latter part of the first cycle already. Why would I drop the townread over SL after the failure? Granted, rayn is a bit more likely scum now, but I still don't think that's the case, and SL has looked worse after the failure IMO. By that same logic, rayn also still townreads me........
On November 09 2015 22:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2015 22:46 Xatalos wrote:
I'm not really even sure what you're saying about SL there? If SL is mafia, he downvoted a team that most likely has a mafia on it (since Rayn/Xata weren't on the team, he'd have to be with exactly HtS/Shockeyy for that not to be the case). Shockeyy also voted yes to the team which suggests that if he's mafia, there is a mafia on the team making that possibility even less likely.
I'm not sure what's unclear about that.
On November 10 2015 02:28 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Hold on
I just realized one of HtS/Rels/Shockeyy is always town.
I'm not sure why I didn't realize that before. probably because your ignoring the likelyhood they are all town
Yeah, that's never going to be the case.
On November 10 2015 05:26 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Hold on
I just realized one of HtS/Rels/Shockeyy is always town.
I'm not sure why I didn't realize that before. Please share your thought process.
I thought all three of you were pretty scummy. Given there's always at least one scum between Rayn/Xata/SL, it is fairly unlikely for there to be three scum in there.
Also I like Vivax so far since he seems to be accusing people left and right, which he likes to do as town.
On November 10 2015 07:10 kitaman27 wrote:
Artanis, what do you think about HTS's post? (#2170)
I think she explains both points well, but neither of them make sl town; they just make the points NAI. His posts can be interpreted in multiple ways, and sicklucker does like to talk about mafia strategy a lot as either alignment. I disagree that he's concerned about giving away information though, that's something I really haven't seen from him.
On November 10 2015 08:20 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2015 06:23 Xatalos wrote:
Is this the final team rayn? Could you replace kita/Rels with myself and perhaps Artanis?
It's just saddening that even though that would improve the chances of success, it would also decrease the chances of the team being approved :/
And then there's shockeyy/Rels/SL's teams coming up.......... I doubt shockeyy/Rels's teams would either get approved or succeed, and SL would just automatically make a failing team... Sigh. holy shit i might vote yes just to see if the scum team is like xata art +1
What happened to your plan of nayvoting everything until it's your turn?
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On November 10 2015 07:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2015 07:01 Rels wrote:
No here is why arta is probably scum:
- voting yes to a failure team while not in said failure team
- his read on me is super convenient and is based on nothing strong
- he nominated a team without me; rayn tells him to nominate me; he argues that he thinks I am scum, then he nominates me anyway I wanted to ask you about this: I don't think the first two reasons are really good. Or like if you think they are then based on (2) you should probably be scum for your case at the start of the game. (1) is non-alignment indicative in itself. (3) is the most important thing i wanted to ask you about: Why do you think it's scum indicative for Artanis to nominate you instead of me when i ask? Like in your world you should think you are town, right? Now you must at least entertain a possibility that i am mafia based on mission 1. So in your opinion Artanis is switching a "not sure town" to "sure town". Why does he do that as scum? There is absolutely zero reason he would do that so that he could blame you if the mission fails because both me and kitaman already read you as town. I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that's alignment indicative -- not to even mention scummy.
First, I'll explain my thinking, but I'll expect you to explain your Arta townread in return.
Second, my read on you is really different from his read on me. I suspected you for something logical; and rescinded it when proven wrong. Artanis is not doing that; his vaguely saying "Rels seems to be posting without a direction", quotes two posts that apparently prove it, and then does nothing with it. It really looks like he decided I will be his scumread, then went ahead and decided why.
Third, him nominating a team YOU proposed over what he thinks is scum indicative. You gave him the excuse of not thinking about anything and just roll out with it. He explains it with "Oh but I was doing a reaction test"; reaction test that didn't give him any result.
About the "sure town" vs "maybe town" stuff, I think mafia!Arta doesn't care which townie goes with him, so that's NAI.
To expand from town vs scum mentality, he threw away his nomination chance, when the next leader is you that he townreads, so that might be OK from his POV; but the next three are Shockey (a potential scum from his POV), me (a scumread) and SL (who said he would include me, a scumread, in his team). Him throwing his team away for a "reaction test" means he ditched his one of two chances to have a team he agrees with. If he's town, this doesn't make sense. If he's scum, he's either with you or SL; you because he wouldn't care about his team since you can probably get a team approved with yourself in it, or SL who has the last vote. I would expect him to convince people to vote NO today if he's scum with SL.
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EPT
