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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
There is nothing wrong with a yam lynch tbh
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
There is no reason to town read him if that's wgat your asking
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Tbh = to blazing hand.
Thanks ladies and gents, and good night
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
back in thread and catching up now. seems like lots of post, I'm eager to read the new content. ping me if you want me to do something or need to bring something ot my attention
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 27 2015 04:46 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 04:44 Blazinghand wrote:
back in thread and catching up now. seems like lots of post, I'm eager to read the new content. ping me if you want me to do something or need to bring something ot my attention hopeless posted.
So we're all on board then?
##unvote
##vote hopeless1der
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 27 2015 04:49 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 04:48 Blazinghand wrote:On October 27 2015 04:46 ritoky wrote:On October 27 2015 04:44 Blazinghand wrote:
back in thread and catching up now. seems like lots of post, I'm eager to read the new content. ping me if you want me to do something or need to bring something ot my attention hopeless posted. So we're all on board then? ##unvote
##vote hopeless1der Nah, hes one the only lurkers I could see bieng town. Also hes voting Yamato / : even if hopeless is scum he might just be busing his teammate. I see no reason to shift course.
Ehhh I see no reason to think of him as town but if there's no support there's no support. Who are the other guys I should be analyzing besides Yam
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 27 2015 04:54 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 04:53 Blazinghand wrote:On October 27 2015 04:49 gumshoe wrote:On October 27 2015 04:48 Blazinghand wrote:On October 27 2015 04:46 ritoky wrote:On October 27 2015 04:44 Blazinghand wrote:
back in thread and catching up now. seems like lots of post, I'm eager to read the new content. ping me if you want me to do something or need to bring something ot my attention hopeless posted. So we're all on board then? ##unvote
##vote hopeless1der Nah, hes one the only lurkers I could see bieng town. Also hes voting Yamato / : even if hopeless is scum he might just be busing his teammate. I see no reason to shift course. Ehhh I see no reason to think of him as town but if there's no support there's no support. Who are the other guys I should be analyzing besides Yam Currently looks like gb or yam for actual lynch. Rayn and Onegu are on the back burner. I dont see anyone whose not in those 4 dying today, even with maximum shananies,
ok, thanks for the heads up gumshoe. I'm gonna handle the day post for the student game, then this has my undivided attention
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 27 2015 05:05 Vivax wrote:
Wtf are you doing wasting your vote BH? Hopeless isnt even that awful compared to his usual standard.
Gimme a moment to read up on the wagons, buttmunch. I made a promise and I live by that promise; I voted the man. If that vote ends up not being relevant, I'll change it, but I need to read first. I took all this time last night to be polite to you but I can see it wasn't worth it, so instead I'm gonna have fun and insult you. Here are a couple good ones:
I can't believe I took the time to be polite to you when your head is so far up your own ass you take rectal suppositories orally
What was I thinking trying to show you the way when you can't find your own asshole with a map and a compass
If I was in a room with you, hitler, and stalin and had a gun with two bullets I'd shoot you twice
Humans say "what the hell?", and Satan says "what the Vivax?"
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
This is all joking! It's a joke! I'm sorry Vivax!
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
well, except the part where I am doing some reading some calm the fuck down
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Yamato has made a total of zero posts since I last evaluated him, and this is his only post in the last 24 hours:
On October 26 2015 12:20 yamato77 wrote:
yeah this obviously didn't happen today
at the very least I'll do a couple filters after work tomorrow but I'm honestly so disinterested in this game
I dunno, it's my fault really, but this wasn't as enjoyable as the last time I played for whatever reason
I think I lost it
If you go back 72 hours isntead of 24, you get these two gems:
On October 25 2015 07:38 yamato77 wrote:
CS has consumed my life
On October 26 2015 04:08 yamato77 wrote:
Alright guys, today I will not play CS and I will play mafia.
I have quite a bit of catching up to do lel.
Yamato typically has a slow D1 start but I see no reason to TR him based on his performance after D1. My willingness to lynch him remains. He's a lurker on par with hopeless1. Let's make it happen.
##unvote
##vote yamato
GB filter dive inc. Last I read of him he was not high on my lynch list based on this:
On October 26 2015 17:45 Blazinghand wrote:here are things that stood out to me as townie from GB's filter during my dive a couple days ago: Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 11:18 GlowingBear wrote:On October 23 2015 05:11 Onegu wrote:
My RNG sheep is...
GlowingBear.
GlowingBear my vote is yours!!! OK! ##Vote: Onegu I don't see scum responding to a free vote this way. This is hilarious and fun and spontaneous and probably not what a scum player would do, because scum has to be more calculating. Here's a snippet of you and I discussing GB (edited for some mistakes): Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 03:19 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 19:02 Vivax wrote:On October 23 2015 10:38 GlowingBear wrote:On October 23 2015 07:53 Xatalos wrote:On October 23 2015 07:49 Vivax wrote:
Bothers me how first GB goes from "Vivax mafia cause tone" when most people agreed that it's my town tone, and then thinks of another reason to scumread me for and switches over to saying that he's suspicious of my townreads cause he doesn't know how they're formed.
So um yeah, either my tone sucks but then my townreads don't have anything to do with it, and when confronted with other people's opinions (marv was hitting that with a pneumatic hammer) he abandons it and starts looking for another reason to bitch about my alignment, so he asks me some fancy questions "why do you townread these dudes" when it's a question he could ask anyone without having to scumread them first. Maybe you're onto something.... Well, it does kind of feel like a premeditated push. No it doesn't. 1.There is no scum-motivation behind trying to push someone who is being universally townread. If scum wants to push someone, they will push mislynchable townies. They (usually) are never going against a hard target.2.I pushed Vivax because I don't like his tone and his easy town passes. I can find it scummy before further investigating it.I'm re-reading the game atm. 1. Wow look at you with the pants on your head, scum would never wear pants on their head. 2. The point is that you can just stick to your guns in that case instead of complaining about me not explaining my reads which is something that doesn't catch scum most of the time. There are dozens of read lists in this game and not every read is explained properly, it's a bottomless barrel. For example there's you saying marv has changed his playstyle and you're not sure about it and then he's suddenly green in the list post of yours, if I ask you why you'd say "I changed my read cause bsbs", great. If I call you scum for it you will just give a reasonable explanation. Or the irony in saying my reads are too static but being suspicious about me giving out too many of them, and basically being the first to do so. You accuse first and ask questions later, that's what I demonstrated with the post of mine and I have a hard time seeing you as the kind of guy who usually tunnels me for reasons I don't understand (like Koshi/Artanis/marv in earlier days). So Vivax, if I understand what you're getting at here, you were tonereaded by GB as scum. After people came in to defend you, GB then said "Vivax is pushing easy targets, so he's still scum". Why is GB scum and not a tunnelled townie for this? I think you raise a good point with the marv flip-flop (though again, marv is easy to read this game, so we don't really care about him) but "this guy got tunnelled and changed his reason for scumreading someone" seems like... well, in a vacuum it seems like the kind of thing a townie would do, especially if it's a little unpopular. Scum could easily change reads (as you note GB did on Marv), so why not do that on you? If I've missed context here, fill me in. Also, if I recall accurately you were one of the early supports of the RNG lynch on rayn. However, glancing through your filter, I don't see anything other than cursory interactions with him between voting him and now, and yet he's no longer on your list. You also write: On October 24 2015 01:55 Vivax wrote:On October 24 2015 01:52 Alakaslam wrote:On October 24 2015 01:49 Vivax wrote:
Oh Slam with the seniority argument.
I remember how I used that in my first games, trying to incite a revolution of the masses to overhtrow the vet government.
Then I got hanged, torn and quartered. I'm not saying they shouldn't use it as town. More that they are using it scummily here. If it comforts you I feel ambiguous about rayn too when he goes after you and not GB but I also take into consideration that we all got massive egos. Which wasn't too long ago. Where do you stand on rayn, and why? I'm not saying "hurr durr vote rayn now" but I'd like to see a clear statement from you on your position on raynpelikoneet, who used to be a library is obvscum clealry due to rng which I think addressed my thoughts on the early GB play pretty succinctly. Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 03:26 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 19:28 marvellosity wrote:
the funny thing is, one thing that makes me unsure about GB being mafia - both rayn and I stated pretty early that Vivax was town and I think it was kinda obvious we were serious about it. So I guess GB-mafia in that instance somehow decides to go against both me and rayn and push a very weak meta case? it's practically suicidal. maybe he's just town and believes it... dno right now I consider this moderate evidence that GB is town. It would be the easiest thing in the world for GB to drop this, right? So him sticking to it means he must really BELIEVE it (however incorrectly?) more than he cares about living. This isn't a dumbtell, it's a determinedtell. For example, the biggest shitfests between 2 people are always "town and town" cause nobody is more determined and stubborn than a tunnelled townie. I think this is fair point that I make here. This is what tunnelled townies look like. Is it possible, here, Vivax, that you're scumreading GB just because he scumread you, and that got you mad or at least biased? It's a really common thing for Town to OMGUS people, (town or scum), that call them scum, especially for clearly irrational reasonsl ike GB expressed. Now, we can say ":GB is irrational, and we expect town to have a certain logic" and that's a fair thing to say! for sure! but at the same time, scum ALSO has a certain logic. They're looking out for #1. They're not gonna do this, not after getting opposition from rayn and marv, right? They'll blow which way the wind is going, and be forgotten about.
I will update appropriately.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
So GB comes back into the thread about 4 hours ago to find two votes (chrom and ritok) on him. He makes a post (link) assertin his towniness to Chrom who is voting him.
Rayn questions him on his read re: rayn/slam
On October 27 2015 01:05 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 00:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You literally had fucking 20 hours to re-evaluate, you called me town ALL THAT IME, then you suddenly think i am a better lynch than Slam who you had no read on.
Go GB, GO! Basically I read what people said and it made sense. Because my townread was basically on how your posts were sounding like you were trying to solve the game, but your flip on me was scummy. Basically, you say it's highly unlikely I'm scum, then for something I've proved NAI said by vivax you say I'm scum following the thread sentiment over the same filter you said I was level headed. Then you said I defended myself like I always defended myself as mafia but YOU KNOW I use those arguments regardless of alignment
He is pushed for reads, then Vivax says:
On October 27 2015 00:56 Vivax wrote:
GB what are your current reads?
And he replies by quoting his own post from earlier:
On October 26 2015 08:15 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2015 08:03 Xatalos wrote:On October 26 2015 08:00 GlowingBear wrote:On October 26 2015 07:55 Xatalos wrote:
I'd basically like to shoot these people right now if I had a gun....
- GB: completely static scumread on Vivax that's not affected by anything happening in the thread, and I actually noticed that marv disproved his reasoning during D1 (by showing that Vivax had made overly confident reads before) but that didn't affect anything... it just does indeed feel like he picked someone to scumread and continued calling him scum no matter what... + overall low effort and disinterest towards anything happening in the game... some of the nice posts he's made can't really absolve him at this point
- yamato: playing according to his scum meta (inactive, disinterested) - there's one town game where he was inactive as well, but mostly he's been relatively active and a good asset as town, there's nothing like that to be seen here....
- Onegu: gave a high townread for rayn, voted for him over his nullread at deadline when the lynch was still completely undecided.... just this alone I think is impossible for town, he did make an "RNG sheep" vote in a previous game but I just can't accept he would choose to vote for his (supposed) highest townread based on some meta-joke... it just shows that he has zero interest towards solving the game or doing anything... and he has refused to answer several questions from different players that probed into his nonsensical arguments over the game
- rayn: disinterested towards the lynch result of D1 (basically sheeping/OMGUSing away to whatever he could), then just started spamming/lurking and caring even less about scumhunting than before
So yeah, I'm basically content if any of these players ends up getting lynched right now.... It looks like we still have 3 mislynches even, so I doubt we can lose if we start by cleaning up this pile of scummy. marv never disproved anything, marv disagreed with me, which is different. And my read on Vivax progressed as he came back to the thread. It's all in my filter. And no, I'm not mafia. Have you ever considered him to be town after the first minute...? I guess you did offer alternative lynches at times, like rayn. I'd really like to hear your overall reads right now. Yes, I've tried to read him coming from a townie perspective. He could be town? Yes, but I'm fairly certain he isn't. I have you as town for filter length and activity, you seem to care about the game which is the towniest trait one can have right now. I have chromatically as town, still. I find hard to believe any scum would put so much effort into writing a scum case on you and me, reading filters and shit. I think Rayn can be mafia but his rage quit is giving me pause. Nonetheless, his flip on me + slam's read on him all points out to him being mafia. I don't trust his rage on slam very much because, well, he knows how slam plays and slam was actually being productive - but productive against Rayn. I am very suspicious of Onegu. I will always think he is a good lynch. Hopeless has some townie posts but some of them are too similar to Avogadro's mini mafia. I think gumshoe might be town just because he is defending me. I can't see mafia motivation behind defending me. Now that yamato is extremely unproductive I can see him being scum. As I said, yamato is one of the players that we can have better reads on later days. And here we are. I don't know what to do with BH. Some of his posts seems very townie, others seems like fluff. I particularly dislike his "eternal dining" posts. On the other hand, I think the has being thinking about the game critically, so he is probably town. I don't know if I forgot someone.
and calls out rayn for not contributing and being angry. He gets into a long semantic argument with rayn about goodness and badness
he follows up with this:
On October 27 2015 01:53 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 27 2015 01:39 GlowingBear wrote:On October 27 2015 01:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 27 2015 01:28 GlowingBear wrote:On October 27 2015 01:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 27 2015 01:22 GlowingBear wrote:On October 27 2015 01:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 27 2015 01:18 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok I'm voting Rayn ofc you are. You're trying to prove a point. The point is that the slam playstyle is annoying and useless. But the point you proved is that slam is fun to play with and you're not, regardless if you're trolling or actually playing. Because nowadays when you're actually playing you're beig bad and when you're trolling you can't get a laugh out of anything you post. You just proved to be a cry baby. Grow up. this post is offending me personally because i am 100x better player than ypu are but it's okay. Im offending your attitude. I've told you more than once that I liked playing with you before but you keep doing this "I am a better player than most of you" or this kind of rant which is annoying as hell. I've never said I was better than you. But that's all that matters to you. How you feel when you compare yourself to the others. And when I criticise your attitude you take it personally. Please change your attitude here, then. that's what you implied. I've implied you've been bad, not that I've been good. This is not a competition. Latest games I've been with you, you have been spot on on some people, and dead wrong on others. CopCake, rsoultin, etc. And you blame THEM, but if others were able to read them correctly, well, it's your fault you've got a wrong read, not theirs. Anyway, that's only if you're town here. If you're mafia you've successfully annoyed everyone, so it might be a good play. this is good. Okay why am i scum? I've said why you're scum, I don't trust your flip on me and that's all there is. To be fair, you usually have been very right on me in most games and I find hard to believe you can be wrong just because Vivax pointed out sonething NAI about me. I even think there were better lynched than you, Rayn. I started today wanting to vote Onegu, kept myself on yamato, but your insistence on trolling simply annoyed me as hell to the point I wanted to get rid of you. Especially when I think you could do that as scum to clutter the thread and disorganise town
In which he basically admits he's lynching rayn for irrational reasons. Then he makes a "case" that I don't understand and does not convince me:
On October 27 2015 02:48 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I might be wrong on GlowingBear, what Vivax said makes a lot of sense tbh.
It's like GB goes "i call this thing scummy then i ask about it" when it should be another way around if he didn't know the reasoning of Vivax' reads. If he doesn't care about the answer (=scummy anyways, as he seemed to think so), why even ask? 1) this is shit and you know I can call people mafia and further investigate it. 2) it was in my filter and you could've catch up on this by yourself. Instead you just shift the responsibility to Vivax It is a weak reason to call me mafia especially because it's a HUGE shift from this: Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 07:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 23 2015 07:05 yamato77 wrote:On October 23 2015 07:02 Xatalos wrote:On October 23 2015 06:52 yamato77 wrote:On October 23 2015 06:47 Xatalos wrote:
So instead of what's stupid, what do you think is... scummy/towny? I liked marv's pressure of GB. I had issue with what GB posted myself and it makes me feel better about him. GB, on the other hand, hasn't posted anything outside of what I believe he could post as mafia, so I'm still quite suspicious of him. Hm... I guess I agree. Though doesn't your last sentence make him null instead of suspicious? No, it makes him suspicious. yamato i am pretty sure GlowingBear is town here. Basically he says really scummy shit that makes absolutely no sense as mafia, because he doesn't really know what to do at all (i assume). Here he has some sort of a thought process going on in his head. Basically it's highly unlike he is scum here. Same goes for Hopeless, he tried to do stuff. He is just doing it in his own way that looks scummy to basically everyone.. always. I am really really sure ritoky is mafia. I am also quite sure Slam is scum because of process of elimination. Xatalos is probably just really fucking dumb atm, but at least his explanation to BH thing makes some sense, unlike ritoky's. ritoky basically argues that Blazinghand is town based on illogical arguments, or arguments that are easily proven wrong. Like even if he believes those arguments are true the read is shit and arguing the read is good for those things is something that a townie never does. Last scum is probably Blazinghand or Onegu. I kinda think it's Onegu atm, since Blazinghand seems to be trying to do something and getting something out of his shennies at the start of the game. I don't believe gumshoe is scum, basically his reacation towards me doesn't make any sense as mafia. He is right in that i suually pressure him every game we are in and i know he acts differently when he is scum than when he is town. I just don't see him being scum here. Vivax is basically his own paranoid town self with a portion of good logical thoughts. marv is almost definitely town. you are almost definitely town. Chromatically seems to be the most level headed person in this game. It's like not totally out of question he is scum here but most likely he is just town as his posting suggests.
On October 27 2015 02:49 GlowingBear wrote:
That, rayn, and slam's suspicions on you, makes me think you're mafia.
Period.
and tries to defend his flip-flopping on rayn (on the same evidence set; note that he scumreads rayn for something that rayn did BEFORe he townreaded rayn):
On October 27 2015 03:39 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 03:34 Chromatically wrote:On October 27 2015 02:48 GlowingBear wrote:On October 23 2015 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I might be wrong on GlowingBear, what Vivax said makes a lot of sense tbh.
It's like GB goes "i call this thing scummy then i ask about it" when it should be another way around if he didn't know the reasoning of Vivax' reads. If he doesn't care about the answer (=scummy anyways, as he seemed to think so), why even ask? 1) this is shit and you know I can call people mafia and further investigate it. 2) it was in my filter and you could've catch up on this by yourself. Instead you just shift the responsibility to Vivax It is a weak reason to call me mafia especially because it's a HUGE shift from this: On October 23 2015 07:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 23 2015 07:05 yamato77 wrote:On October 23 2015 07:02 Xatalos wrote:On October 23 2015 06:52 yamato77 wrote:On October 23 2015 06:47 Xatalos wrote:
So instead of what's stupid, what do you think is... scummy/towny? I liked marv's pressure of GB. I had issue with what GB posted myself and it makes me feel better about him. GB, on the other hand, hasn't posted anything outside of what I believe he could post as mafia, so I'm still quite suspicious of him. Hm... I guess I agree. Though doesn't your last sentence make him null instead of suspicious? No, it makes him suspicious. yamato i am pretty sure GlowingBear is town here. Basically he says really scummy shit that makes absolutely no sense as mafia, because he doesn't really know what to do at all (i assume). Here he has some sort of a thought process going on in his head. Basically it's highly unlike he is scum here. Same goes for Hopeless, he tried to do stuff. He is just doing it in his own way that looks scummy to basically everyone.. always. I am really really sure ritoky is mafia. I am also quite sure Slam is scum because of process of elimination. Xatalos is probably just really fucking dumb atm, but at least his explanation to BH thing makes some sense, unlike ritoky's. ritoky basically argues that Blazinghand is town based on illogical arguments, or arguments that are easily proven wrong. Like even if he believes those arguments are true the read is shit and arguing the read is good for those things is something that a townie never does. Last scum is probably Blazinghand or Onegu. I kinda think it's Onegu atm, since Blazinghand seems to be trying to do something and getting something out of his shennies at the start of the game. I don't believe gumshoe is scum, basically his reacation towards me doesn't make any sense as mafia. He is right in that i suually pressure him every game we are in and i know he acts differently when he is scum than when he is town. I just don't see him being scum here. Vivax is basically his own paranoid town self with a portion of good logical thoughts. marv is almost definitely town. you are almost definitely town. Chromatically seems to be the most level headed person in this game. It's like not totally out of question he is scum here but most likely he is just town as his posting suggests. YEAH WTF and then here he's saying that he thinks rayn is mafia for something that happened before he called rayn town. If he thinks rayn is mafia so much for the switch then why was rayn so town in the list post he made? Because I was afraid I could be OMGUSing. Then other people, especially slam, brought suspicions on him and it made sense to me.
and then bails
Overall I give GB a C- on his execution and effort. I do not like the way GB has handled today, especially since rayn is not a primary lynch target. Let's talk about his yamato read development:
He begins about halfway through the day with this:
On October 26 2015 08:03 GlowingBear wrote:
Let me ask you something, Xatalos.
Will a tunneled townie forget about his scumread one day later?
Because Vivax called Yamato scum for being inactive (in less than 24 hours in the game). When yamato turned against me, Vivax gave him a very weird townread (it felt like a joke, Vivax said it was an actual townread).
Yamato is inactive now. Vivax never talks about him anymore. He only supports my lynch when people talk about it.
I can never see a world where Vivax isn't scum here. Never.
Especially now that yamato's inactivity IS indeed scummy, and he is doing nothing, and NOW he's fitting his scum meta.
This is his first real mention of yamato, phrased as a series of questions and observations to Xat, 2 hours before he votes Yam, but after Gumshoe votes yam. He doesn't reference gumshoe's case and doesn't describe yamato's meta in detail, other than calling yamato (Accurately) inactive. HE also doesn't vote yamato77 yet. However, in his list post he says:
On October 26 2015 08:15 GlowingBear wrote:
I think gumshoe might be town just because he is defending me. I can't see mafia motivation behind defending me.
Now that yamato is extremely unproductive I can see him being scum. As I said, yamato is one of the players that we can have better reads on later days. And here we are.
Which is his main references to yamato and gumshoe in the list case. He quite reasonably points out that giving yamato a pass on D1 is normal, but now it's D2 and we've had nothing from yamato. I like what he's said here but it seems very tentative, like he's testing the waters. This might be fair; he has several votes on him at this moment and is trying to set up a counterwagon.
He reasonably says associative tells between unflipped players are bad:
On October 26 2015 09:51 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2015 08:23 gumshoe wrote:On October 26 2015 08:15 GlowingBear wrote:On October 26 2015 08:03 Xatalos wrote:On October 26 2015 08:00 GlowingBear wrote:On October 26 2015 07:55 Xatalos wrote:
I'd basically like to shoot these people right now if I had a gun....
- GB: completely static scumread on Vivax that's not affected by anything happening in the thread, and I actually noticed that marv disproved his reasoning during D1 (by showing that Vivax had made overly confident reads before) but that didn't affect anything... it just does indeed feel like he picked someone to scumread and continued calling him scum no matter what... + overall low effort and disinterest towards anything happening in the game... some of the nice posts he's made can't really absolve him at this point
- yamato: playing according to his scum meta (inactive, disinterested) - there's one town game where he was inactive as well, but mostly he's been relatively active and a good asset as town, there's nothing like that to be seen here....
- Onegu: gave a high townread for rayn, voted for him over his nullread at deadline when the lynch was still completely undecided.... just this alone I think is impossible for town, he did make an "RNG sheep" vote in a previous game but I just can't accept he would choose to vote for his (supposed) highest townread based on some meta-joke... it just shows that he has zero interest towards solving the game or doing anything... and he has refused to answer several questions from different players that probed into his nonsensical arguments over the game
- rayn: disinterested towards the lynch result of D1 (basically sheeping/OMGUSing away to whatever he could), then just started spamming/lurking and caring even less about scumhunting than before
So yeah, I'm basically content if any of these players ends up getting lynched right now.... It looks like we still have 3 mislynches even, so I doubt we can lose if we start by cleaning up this pile of scummy. marv never disproved anything, marv disagreed with me, which is different. And my read on Vivax progressed as he came back to the thread. It's all in my filter. And no, I'm not mafia. Have you ever considered him to be town after the first minute...? I guess you did offer alternative lynches at times, like rayn. I'd really like to hear your overall reads right now. Yes, I've tried to read him coming from a townie perspective. He could be town? Yes, but I'm fairly certain he isn't. I have you as town for filter length and activity, you seem to care about the game which is the towniest trait one can have right now. I have chromatically as town, still. I find hard to believe any scum would put so much effort into writing a scum case on you and me, reading filters and shit. I think Rayn can be mafia but his rage quit is giving me pause. Nonetheless, his flip on me + slam's read on him all points out to him being mafia. I don't trust his rage on slam very much because, well, he knows how slam plays and slam was actually being productive - but productive against Rayn. I am very suspicious of Onegu. I will always think he is a good lynch. Hopeless has some townie posts but some of them are too similar to Avogadro's mini mafia. I think gumshoe might be town just because he is defending me. I can't see mafia motivation behind defending me. Now that yamato is extremely unproductive I can see him being scum. As I said, yamato is one of the players that we can have better reads on later days. And here we are. I don't know what to do with BH. Some of his posts seems very townie, others seems like fluff. I particularly dislike his "eternal dining" posts. On the other hand, I think the has being thinking about the game critically, so he is probably town. I don't know if I forgot someone. Remember how Yamato attacked you for bullshiting against Vivax? Then casually switched over to accusing Vivax once the chance of your lynch evaporated? Theory- wouldn't that make sense, if you were wrong about Vivax and Yamato knew this cause he was scum?(hence why he was so certain you were making shit up as you went along, from his perspective as scum it would look exactly like that to him no matter you were saying about Vivax, cause the bottom line would be that your wrong)he then was fine with switching onto Vivax because wait for it! Hes scum -_- Proposal- Lets lynch Yamato, then we can come back to Vivax, if Yamato is scum, then wouldn't that tell you a bit about Vivax? I wouldn't do that kind of association because they could be bussing. Yamato never really voted Vivax and Vivax forgot about him to focus on me. It wouldn't really tell me much. Let's see how the day will unfold.
and votes Yam right after this without announcing it in the main thread (as far as I can find).
When gumshoe accosts him, he says he's voting Yam:
On October 26 2015 12:33 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2015 10:39 gumshoe wrote:On October 26 2015 10:21 GlowingBear wrote:On October 26 2015 10:02 Xatalos wrote:
Could you perhaps elaborate why Onegu is better?
Not that I disagree with lynching him.
Maybe I'll get to sleep soon... Basically I can never read onegu, and I can read yamato better the later we get in the game. We will never know Onegu's alignment until endgame. Because that's how he is. And I prefer to have him lynch as soon as possible. If you can read Yam at all you should know how shit his day 1 was. In fact you of all fucking people should know that XD His contributions consisted of getting Marv to go after you, almost resulting in your lynch. Not wanting to lynch Onegue for no reason, vaugley going after Slam early and then parroting Marvs slam case back at him to explain his miday vote. I can understand chrom not wanting to see Yam as scum, cause then he has to give up his case on you -_- but how can YOU still defend Yam? Its unbelievable XD To summarize, from your perspective all Yam has been doing is advocating mislynches, providing shady undexplained reads, lurking and fucking town reading/protecting the likes of hopeless and onegue... Hopeless is a pretty ez townread IMO. I don't really want to lynch Onegu but I admittedly haven't read his probably short filter either. WHY ARE WE NOT KILLING THIS MAN. If he actually is town by some miraculous stretch, lurkers should be coming out of retirement just to throw shade his way. Instead the only person trying to bring down the man with what must be the most fantastic ratio of lurk to malevolent post this game is me XD That right there should be enough to tell the tale -_- cman gb, get in mah pen ![[image loading]](http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/50/90/2509024_4383a58c.jpg) I'm not defending yamato, I'm voting him. Let me ask you a question: if yamato flips green, does it change your read on me?
After this, though, he makes a very convenient claim about his stance on yamato:
On October 27 2015 01:53 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 27 2015 01:39 GlowingBear wrote:On October 27 2015 01:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 27 2015 01:28 GlowingBear wrote:On October 27 2015 01:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 27 2015 01:22 GlowingBear wrote:On October 27 2015 01:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 27 2015 01:18 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok I'm voting Rayn ofc you are. You're trying to prove a point. The point is that the slam playstyle is annoying and useless. But the point you proved is that slam is fun to play with and you're not, regardless if you're trolling or actually playing. Because nowadays when you're actually playing you're beig bad and when you're trolling you can't get a laugh out of anything you post. You just proved to be a cry baby. Grow up. this post is offending me personally because i am 100x better player than ypu are but it's okay. Im offending your attitude. I've told you more than once that I liked playing with you before but you keep doing this "I am a better player than most of you" or this kind of rant which is annoying as hell. I've never said I was better than you. But that's all that matters to you. How you feel when you compare yourself to the others. And when I criticise your attitude you take it personally. Please change your attitude here, then. that's what you implied. I've implied you've been bad, not that I've been good. This is not a competition. Latest games I've been with you, you have been spot on on some people, and dead wrong on others. CopCake, rsoultin, etc. And you blame THEM, but if others were able to read them correctly, well, it's your fault you've got a wrong read, not theirs. Anyway, that's only if you're town here. If you're mafia you've successfully annoyed everyone, so it might be a good play. this is good. Okay why am i scum? I've said why you're scum, I don't trust your flip on me and that's all there is. To be fair, you usually have been very right on me in most games and I find hard to believe you can be wrong just because Vivax pointed out sonething NAI about me. I even think there were better lynched than you, Rayn. I started today wanting to vote Onegu, kept myself on yamato, but your insistence on trolling simply annoyed me as hell to the point I wanted to get rid of you. Especially when I think you could do that as scum to clutter the thread and disorganise town
What I saw wasn't a GB who "kept himself on yamato", I saw a GB who tentatively put out some yamato feelers after Gumshoe set up a case, never pushed hard, but eventually was convinced by GS that Yam was the right lynch over 1gu. I don't think there's something inherently wrong with that; he eventually got on board, reasonably enough. But he definitely didn't keep himself on yamato or somehow drive the case. It's not unreasonable for GB to vote for the main counterwagon regardless of his alignment.
Actually, GB jumping onto rayn (who isn't getting lynched today) COULD be a sign of GB being town. If I were scum GB here, unless I was somehow scumbuddies with Yam-- I won't speculate about associative tells between unflipped players-- I'd generally want to vote Yam to keep myself alive. Moving OFF of yam and ONTO rayn and then getting into some kind of shitfest argument with rayn... well, it doesn't make a huge amount of sense for a GB who's trying to look good and get Yam lynched. I guess what I'm getting at here is that, in a world in which GB is scum, I expect him to be a bit more calculating than this.
That being said, at this moment he's fine with his vote on rayn; there's significantly more support for a yam lynch than his lynch. And I recall someone last night saying "everyone scumreads GB, but nobody actually votes him" which could be a sign of scum activity (did you find anyone who did this, btW? please name names), all of which points to a GB who's playing the part of flustered townie.
I guess, looking at this, I still don't think GB is a great lynch today. He's actually trying to play the game, one way or another, and he's definitely putting in more effort than rayn, H1, 1gu, or yam; I don't think we can actually afford to lynch him today when we could be lynching someone who's literally not contributing. Yam clearly prefers to not play this game, and I don't expect him to post anything to clear things up. He's willing to show up each day and vote to not get modkilled (H1 is also in this category; I AM ONE HUNDO PERCENT DOWN FOR SHENANNIES ONTO H1 BTW) and honestly we can't afford to not lynch people who do that. There's no cop or vigi to save us, we have to do this ourselves
sigh
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 27 2015 05:48 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 03:45 Xatalos wrote:
Chromatically: Hm.... I guess, but it's not implausible for town GB to only start thinking about the switch and how it happened a bit later on. I think what rayn did was worse. I mean... he basically gave a full townread for GB, then suddenly started scumreading him for the same posts when the wind shifted. He explained it pretty well in my opinion: + Show Spoiler +On October 23 2015 07:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 07:49 Vivax wrote:
Bothers me how first GB goes from "Vivax mafia cause tone" when most people agreed that it's my town tone, and then thinks of another reason to scumread me for and switches over to saying that he's suspicious of my townreads cause he doesn't know how they're formed.
So um yeah, either my tone sucks but then my townreads don't have anything to do with it, and when confronted with other people's opinions (marv was hitting that with a pneumatic hammer) he abandons it and starts looking for another reason to bitch about my alignment, so he asks me some fancy questions "why do you townread these dudes" when it's a question he could ask anyone without having to scumread them first. Hmm okay this makes sense. On October 23 2015 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I might be wrong on GlowingBear, what Vivax said makes a lot of sense tbh.
It's like GB goes "i call this thing scummy then i ask about it" when it should be another way around if he didn't know the reasoning of Vivax' reads. If he doesn't care about the answer (=scummy anyways, as he seemed to think so), why even ask? On October 23 2015 08:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 08:00 Xatalos wrote:
Hm... rayn, you stopped responding to me because you understood my point about the RNG things, but I'm "dumb" anyway? Why am I "dumb" even if you thought I ultimately had a point? Or did you talk about it with me because you initially put / painted me as scum and then dropped interest when it didn't go anywhere?
Well, I guess you did answer some of it indirectly in your other posts anyway. I was still left hanging especially with how you gave GB/Hopeless such easy town passes (for almost nothing) and why ritoky became scum for... basically disagreeing with you about some RNG statistics? Because i can see how it makes sense in your world, it doesn't change the fact i consider it dumb.  That's not why i read ritoky mafia. And i can read Hopeless very well. Probably better than anyone in this game. I missed some stuff on GB, he looked level headed enough for me to consider him town and he is another person whose posts i pay very little attention to at least early on, unless ofc i think he is mafia. But he's not up for lynch today really so not super relevant right now. Compare to GB's justification: Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 03:39 GlowingBear wrote:On October 27 2015 03:34 Chromatically wrote:On October 27 2015 02:48 GlowingBear wrote:On October 23 2015 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I might be wrong on GlowingBear, what Vivax said makes a lot of sense tbh.
It's like GB goes "i call this thing scummy then i ask about it" when it should be another way around if he didn't know the reasoning of Vivax' reads. If he doesn't care about the answer (=scummy anyways, as he seemed to think so), why even ask? 1) this is shit and you know I can call people mafia and further investigate it. 2) it was in my filter and you could've catch up on this by yourself. Instead you just shift the responsibility to Vivax It is a weak reason to call me mafia especially because it's a HUGE shift from this: On October 23 2015 07:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 23 2015 07:05 yamato77 wrote:On October 23 2015 07:02 Xatalos wrote:On October 23 2015 06:52 yamato77 wrote:On October 23 2015 06:47 Xatalos wrote:
So instead of what's stupid, what do you think is... scummy/towny? I liked marv's pressure of GB. I had issue with what GB posted myself and it makes me feel better about him. GB, on the other hand, hasn't posted anything outside of what I believe he could post as mafia, so I'm still quite suspicious of him. Hm... I guess I agree. Though doesn't your last sentence make him null instead of suspicious? No, it makes him suspicious. yamato i am pretty sure GlowingBear is town here. Basically he says really scummy shit that makes absolutely no sense as mafia, because he doesn't really know what to do at all (i assume). Here he has some sort of a thought process going on in his head. Basically it's highly unlike he is scum here. Same goes for Hopeless, he tried to do stuff. He is just doing it in his own way that looks scummy to basically everyone.. always. I am really really sure ritoky is mafia. I am also quite sure Slam is scum because of process of elimination. Xatalos is probably just really fucking dumb atm, but at least his explanation to BH thing makes some sense, unlike ritoky's. ritoky basically argues that Blazinghand is town based on illogical arguments, or arguments that are easily proven wrong. Like even if he believes those arguments are true the read is shit and arguing the read is good for those things is something that a townie never does. Last scum is probably Blazinghand or Onegu. I kinda think it's Onegu atm, since Blazinghand seems to be trying to do something and getting something out of his shennies at the start of the game. I don't believe gumshoe is scum, basically his reacation towards me doesn't make any sense as mafia. He is right in that i suually pressure him every game we are in and i know he acts differently when he is scum than when he is town. I just don't see him being scum here. Vivax is basically his own paranoid town self with a portion of good logical thoughts. marv is almost definitely town. you are almost definitely town. Chromatically seems to be the most level headed person in this game. It's like not totally out of question he is scum here but most likely he is just town as his posting suggests. YEAH WTF and then here he's saying that he thinks rayn is mafia for something that happened before he called rayn town. If he thinks rayn is mafia so much for the switch then why was rayn so town in the list post he made? Because I was afraid I could be OMGUSing. Then other people, especially slam, brought suspicions on him and it made sense to me. His justification is that he could be OMGUSing. Do you ever read someone's posts and say "oh those are scummy, but I'll give you a top townread because I might be OMGUSing"?
Admittedly, GB's actions don't make sense. If the Yam wagon I am on is defeated by the GB wagon, I won't shed a tear for GB's death. That doesn't necessarily mean we shoudl be like, having a super hard-on for lynching GB. A single nonsensible read progression does not a scum player make! Can you understand why, though, I see players like Yam as more of a threat to our ability to win, though?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Like, literally if we don't lynch Yam for not playing, and he's scum, we just lose. It's not like he's showing up and doing things and people are scumreading him for that. People who are townreading him are all making different version of the following argument:
"It's possible Yam is town, and we have no way of knowing, since he's not playing. Also he was playing video games on steam or something. In any case, I'm not gonna lynch him for inscrutable reasons, and he will remain inscrutable"
Like, rayn for example, if he's really actually mad, I predicted we needed to give him time (and also had a strong towntell from that argument with the host) and lo and behold, he made some attempts to play in the second half of this day. Did he do a good job of it? No, rayn did a shit job of it. And we can critique him for that. We can also critique GB for doing a shit play.
In fact, I 100% promise you there is more shitty things that GB did than shitty things that Yam did. If you filter dive an dlook for weird inconsitencies, GlowingBear will have more than Yamato. You know why? Cause Glowingbear has made more than 3 posts in the last 72 hours.
Here let me show you yam's filter for the past 72 hours:
On October 25 2015 07:38 yamato77 wrote:
CS has consumed my life
On October 26 2015 04:08 yamato77 wrote:
Alright guys, today I will not play CS and I will play mafia.
I have quite a bit of catching up to do lel.
On October 26 2015 12:20 yamato77 wrote:
yeah this obviously didn't happen today
at the very least I'll do a couple filters after work tomorrow but I'm honestly so disinterested in this game
I dunno, it's my fault really, but this wasn't as enjoyable as the last time I played for whatever reason
I think I lost it
OF COURSE GB is going to have more weird flipflops and flaws than yamato; yamato literally hasn't posted. You can't say GB looks worse than yamato and have that be a meaningful statement. You know how I told the host listing Marvellosity as a non-voter was technically correct, but misleading since he's dead? Well, that's also true for listing GB as scummier than Yam. TEchnically, yes, GB is scummier than Yam, but that's becasue Yam literally hasn't posted anything. HE LITERALLY HAS NOT.
So what's the deal? Why are we defending Yam?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 27 2015 05:55 Chromatically wrote:
I agree with a lot of that post, BH. But honestly I would argue that our biggest threat to our ability to win is lynching mafia, not lynching people who don't play the game. Lurkers are really bad for town in this setup, but I think we have to consider if lynching a lurker is our best chance of hitting mafia. I don't think it is right now, but clearly many disagree.
Ok, I totally get what you're getting at here. there's an argument to be made, and it is a totally reasonable one, that perhaps all lurkers are town and all active players are mafia, and we should lynch into the most suspicious active players. And in a sense, I think that is not 100% wrong. For example; I think rayn needed an extension and some time to sort out his rage and unwillingness to play. But there are what, 4 lurkers here out of 11 players? It's almost certain that there's at least one mafia in the lurk group, and there are ones like Hopeless1 and Yamato who are literally playing just enough to not ge tmodkilled (remember, this game has no activity requirement). If I were scum this game, I'd just never post and it would be easy. In fact, I feel really certain at least one scum, or maybe all scum, are doing this. And why not? There's a vocal contingent of people (including the lurkers themselves) who do not want to lynch into lurkers
We have to think smarter. Normally, lurkers are handled by modkills for failure to meet posting requirements, or cops, or vigilantes, or at the very least some blues make it to LYLO and claim and we have a narrow lynch pool. We have none of those tools this game. People are abusing the ability to lurk, and sure, ti sounds like they have reasons, but there's no reason scum can't just fake reasons. As scum, I would.
We need to solve this problem ourselves. We obviously can't lynch every lurker, since doing so is the same as guessing all scum are lurkers (if 2-3 of them are town, we'll run out of lynches and lose probably first). But we can lynch the worst lurker or two, the ones we'll never get a read on, and I'm gambling on one of them being scum.
Obviously none of these guys are gonna shot if they're town. What will you do in LYLO when it's all lurkers and scum, or all lurking scum we're refusing ot lynch? We can't have that.
Gb will always LOOK worse than Yam because there's a filter to look at. He could have eaisly chosen to never post and he'd be just like Yam, protected by "well, we can't just lynch lurkers, or we'd lose". GB CHOSE TO PLAY. He chose to play the damn game, to try to solve things, even if he's super wrong and dumb, and MAKING THAT CHOICE, that's a town thing. If he's scum, he didn't have to post SHIT. He just had to let the thread implode.
He stepped up! HE STEPPED UP.
Don't punish that.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 27 2015 05:57 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 05:55 Chromatically wrote:
I agree with a lot of that post, BH. But honestly I would argue that our biggest threat to our ability to win is lynching mafia, not lynching people who don't play the game. Lurkers are really bad for town in this setup, but I think we have to consider if lynching a lurker is our best chance of hitting mafia. I don't think it is right now, but clearly many disagree. A useless lurker, WITH scummy traits, whose playing against his meta : P Not a bad shot at all.
On October 27 2015 05:57 Chromatically wrote:
The yamato lynch isn't terrible by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just very confident in GB. But it's doubtful it will happen today anyway.
On October 27 2015 05:59 Vivax wrote:
Yam not posting is his scum meta and if he's town and just playing terribly then we lose a day cause he's playing terribly (or not at all).
Ace sig brought it on point: "Town is as strong as their weakest player".
Not to say yam is a weak player in general but if he's town in this game he clearly is cause he doesn't even have to do much besides posting his opinion somewhat regularly to not get lynched.
I actually think the Yam lynch has a decent chance of flipping scum. LIke I said, GB could easily be scum. But he's trying to play the game on some level, so we WILL figure him out, one way or another. He looks scummier than Yam chiefly because he has actually made posts! And whether he's scum or town that would be true. That flip-flop on rayn is bad for sure but can we really afford not to lynch yam here?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Onegu, only you and I are willing to lynch H1, and honestly the fact that you support me in this makes me nervous. Get your vote off him and onto a main wagon (yam, GB, or rayn I suppose) and just be ready for shenannies if people are in for it. As it is now your vote is irrelevant and you're opting out of the town discourse. Get acquanted with GB and Yam at least, and start arguing!
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 27 2015 06:08 ritoky wrote:
I am willing to lynch h1.
OK, this brings us up to 3-- ritoky, vivax, and myself. The main wagon, the one on Yamato, has 5 votes. If I unvote, it will have 4. So, we need two more commitments, or one commitment from someone on the yam wagon (gum, xat, vivax)
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 27 2015 06:09 Chromatically wrote:
BH, do you like a Hopeless lynch over a yamato lynch?
ahhhhhhhhh gimme like 10 minutes to filter dive. I did before, but all this arguing about how bad yam is may have convinced me yam is worse
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Hmm, so it looks like Yam made some general commentary without doing any hard pushes (though he semed on board with slam lynch) during D1. Then he faded out at the end of D1 and has commented rarely since. His reasoning has to do with morale and vidja games
Hopeless1 has literally only posted one-liners except for this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/496215-mini-mafia-the-kinda-vanilla-experience?page=107#2125 and similarly dropped off at the end of D1. His excuse was that he was partying all weekend due to his new job, which is less likely to be true (since yam's is true whether he's scum or town). He spent a lot of time tlaking about my rng, voted slam literally expressly as a sheep, and asked/answered a few basica questions.
I guess this post by Yam:
On October 22 2015 13:35 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 13:28 Chromatically wrote:On October 22 2015 13:23 yamato77 wrote:
I don't think Vivax is mafia.
I think Xatalos has some questionable parts of his filter and I agree with gumshoe to an extent.
I do not think gumshoe is mafia very often (given his play this game).
I think marv has changed how he plays (quite obviously). Don't know what to make of that quite yet.
I think rayn is leaning town but it's hard to say with not much having happened.
Most others are a big ?, including yourself.
tl;dr it's been 20 pages and 8 hours and no reads are confident. Who would you lynch between if you had to pick right now? I wouldn't, because I have like 40 hours to decide. This is one of the issues I have with Xatalos/Vivax and their "read" on me. Do you really expect me to be super active when there's nothing really that interesting to talk about? It's fucking pointless conjecture. No answer to your question will mean a damn thing in 20 hours when I have more substantive stuff to talk about. Sure, it makes you question my alignment, but do I really care? No. When I want to, I'll be painfully obvious town and I'll almost certainly find a better lynch than most of you, and once you realize this, we'll be heading in a better direction. Thinking that you're "putting pressure" on me by forcing me to answer asinine questions is literally the least useful thing you could do at this juncture. If I fail to deliver, you can go ahead and try to get me lynched, but in the mean time, don't delude yourself into thinking I'm scum just because I won't play the game the way you want me to. It's rather silly.
Is probably better than the entire hopeless filter combined even though it's mostly BS.
Generally, it seems like Hopeless1 is a slightly better lynch to me. At least Yam was like, commenting on stuff what he was alive, right?
But honestly both these guys need to die.
On October 27 2015 06:12 Chromatically wrote:
My biggest problem with a Hopeless lynch is that I feel like tomorrow will turn into an exact repeat of today where gumshoe pushes yamato all day and I don't want to do that all again honestly.
Hmm, this is a valid objection I suppose. How about we be ready to shenannie onto H1 if Yam is gonna get modkilled due to failure to vote? This might be the win-win we're looking for
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EPT
