Rayn's last "bigger" case:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 27 2015 23:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:GlowingBear is definitely mafia. Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 01:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
This is what happened, regardless of if you want to address it or not;
- rayn calls GB town
- rayn calls GB scum, explains why he changes his view -- see yamato/Vivax, mostly Vivax)
- GB calls rayn town
- GB asks about his scumreads from rayn (or townreads -- but still rayn too)
- rayn says "you are not reading the thread"
- GB says "yes i have"
- rayn says "well then you would know my stance (also marv's/chrom's)"
- GB says okay so gimme reads on ppl
- rayn says "haha you're scum"
- GB says oh i just now figured out rayn is mafia i wanna vote for him
.....
D2:
GB argues that what i did on D1 (when he called me mafia) is inside my townplay...
^_^ Just read this and the post i made about this earlier, here: Show nested quote +On October 26 2015 19:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:mmmmmm..... + Show Spoiler +On October 23 2015 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I might be wrong on GlowingBear, what Vivax said makes a lot of sense tbh.
It's like GB goes "i call this thing scummy then i ask about it" when it should be another way around if he didn't know the reasoning of Vivax' reads. If he doesn't care about the answer (=scummy anyways, as he seemed to think so), why even ask? On October 23 2015 11:59 GlowingBear wrote:Phew. Finally ended up re-reading. + Show Spoiler +On October 22 2015 06:41 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 06:39 Xatalos wrote:On October 22 2015 06:36 ritoky wrote:
gumshoe might be mafia. Why? poorly explained response, forced joke, clear post editing, extra lines at the end of post. This post makes me think ritoky is town. I had a similar impression to gumshoe's early posts and it's finally something unrelated to RNG discussion. On October 22 2015 06:56 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 06:30 Chromatically wrote:
BH, you talk a lot about why your lynch is random but not at all about why we should follow it. Theres no point to him trying to convince us to follow his lynch. RNG is viable when reads are shit, convincing town to rng lynch requires shit reads. The game has just begun therefore reads have not had the time to develop quality, which means bh does not yet posses his convince condition. In the absence of the means to convince us to choose his method, all he can do is argue how his is truly random. Because a mafia player who argues for an actual rng lynch is forfeiting his ability to protect his teammates (and potentially himself) from rng. A competent scumer would usually have faith in his ability to sway town one way or another, which means he probably wouldn't risk an rng team kill. Basically there are only 3 kinds of players who would propose this strat. 1) a player who is so insecure about his play, he is honestly proposing to just roll the dice instead of play(at least on day 1). This player could be town or scum. 2) A town player who is just using this as a means to prove his innocence "why would I risk killing myself or my teamies as mafia? I must be town!" this works sorta because your odds are quite low of hitting yourself and if you do then you can always say "well I know I'm town, so I'll just disregard this result" -_- 3) A scummer who believes that town will not actually rng lynch because it is objectively a bad strat compared to a really solid case/read. He must hope for this, because to a scummer the rng lynch can actually just backfire, since mafia as an entity operate on a clear pool of lives as opposed to towns mist of health. we can probally straight up rule out the first possibility (bh be goods not scrubs), which leaves 2 and 3. This whole thing seems pre written so hard to tell between them. Honestly best just to ignore the whole thing unless it gets to the point where our reads are so junk an rng lynch is actually more likely. ether way, I dont think bh expects us to actually straight up rng lynch, this was probably just a way to look active early on without actually offering substance (though it might draw substance out of others, which is always good) I don't like this post from gumshoe simply because there are a lot more reasons why someone would RNG, and everyone knows RNG isn't alignment indicative for BH (he has done it as both alignments). If he thinks this something that should be ignore, why putting so many thoughts on it just to say that? I also am not liking Xatalos posts in this game. Xatalos is usually more extensive in his posts when he is town, and he usually talk about relevant stuff. Here, he wasted too much time talking about the RNG and his reads are usually... I don't know... not committed enough? I don't like it. I'm at page 19 and gumshoe is still talking about BH. Argh. On October 22 2015 11:08 Chromatically wrote:I'm back, I'm planning on rereading the thread and looking more into some people but here's where I'm at now: - gumshoe feels really town, especially that last post. The way he rambles shows a town thought process in his posts. - I don't think BH has done anything alignment indicative and I don't understand why people are reading him town. - I liked when rayn said, "Chrom would be town if I hadn't been scum with him before", I think that statement usually comes from someone honestly trying to read me (i.e. town). - Hopeless' entrance felt awkward to me, did not like it. - Xatalos is town for driving discussion and the stuff he says comes from a town perspective, probably Vivax too for similar reasons. If anyone has questions I'd love to hear them because an uncomfortable amount of people seem to think I'm mafia and I don't like it.  I like this post A LOT, especially because he pointed out the stuff on BH. I feel very comfortable to give Chromatically a day pass just for this. On October 23 2015 04:57 Xatalos wrote:gumshoe: It's a bit funny you called me out about waffling on you when your entire last post waffling on... everyone  Every read had some "but... then..." moment haharayn: About BH, I'm not completely sure how I came to lean as strongly town on BH as on Vivax. It might not be as deserved as the townread on Vivax (on objective merits of meta etc.), I just felt (and actually still feel) that his level of effort and activity seemed more likely to come from town. The way he engaged people and seemed to have really thought about his own ideas... It didn't feel at all like a fake push trying to gather credibility. What's more, I skimmed through all the links ritoky provided and it was a common trend that BH pushed the idea of RNG lynching as town but didn't do that as scum. I think it's a minor meta point in BH's favor, even if it's not like it's impossible to fake something like that... I just didn't get the feeling it was fake. Well, did you? For the time being, I'm happy to put BH in the pile of non-lynchables. YEAH XATA, IT'S A BIT FUNNY. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF IT??? Shouldn't it be alignment indicative for you? I'm now at page 29 and I hardly see BH being suspicious of anyone. He is wasting too much time with this RNG shit. I don't like it. Although I can't actually call it scummy yet. This post makes me feel better about Xatalos: On October 23 2015 05:33 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 05:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is absolutely nothing alignment indicative in your rng Blazinghand, you know it, everyone should know it. "Figuring out" something regarding it is a waste of time. Well it's kind of like... Imagine player X. He has a great record of posting a lengthy introduction post as scum when he starts the game, and as town he's so far just immediately jumped in and started posting actual content. Now in a current game he immediately makes a lengthy introduction post. Could he have done it as town to make himself harder to read? Possibly. But I'd still take into account that maybe the meta is repeating itself, no? And if you read my posts, it's not just that about Blazinghand, but more like how he was so excited about the RNG when he's several times before said that it's pro-town. It would be harder to convey that excitement as scum when he think it's so pro-town clearly. I wouldn't give him a town read but it's enough to make me not want to lynch him On October 23 2015 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 06:34 Xatalos wrote:On October 23 2015 06:30 Chromatically wrote:
Here's a better question imo: do you really think that BH would have a problem arguing the benefits of RNG lynch as mafia?
He wouldn't have any problem doing that at all, given that he's done the exact same thing many times before and RNG lynch is by definition completely independent of BH's alignment. Well, read my last post.... Also, like I said, even if it might sound good in theory, he hasn't done that so far in his scumgames and it wouldn't probably be as easy in practise ESPECIALLY if the RNG hit his teammate. Do you feel like Blazinghand is pressuring me at the moment? Do you feel like i feel pressured? Do you thin kanyone whould feel pressured if the rng landed on them? I totally agree with this. It looks really bad. Basically, here is where I'm at: ~ Town: Chromatically
rayn
marv~ Null with town passes: ritoky (I thought he was town but after he got townread his play has been very lackluster) Xatalos (I hate his filter but I could see some townie posts and I'm never lynching a 8 pages filter on day1) yamato (I will never lynch yamato on day1 unless he is glaringly scummy, and I have yet to see something scummy in him) ~ Could lynch: gumshoe (I disliked most of his posts and he even scumread Xatalos for doing exactly what he has done most of the game: wasted it talking about RNG) Blazinghand (mostly talks about RNG and I have yet to see him getting any scumreads based on his reaction test - he said he won't lynch Chromatically today and that's all that's interesting I have seen him talking about) ~ Could lynch harder: Onegu (I can never read him and I hated that he said he would sheep me - gives me deja vu from last game where he was mafia against me - him being more invested in this game is usually a bad sign) Hopeless1der (useless - feels like his play in Avogadro's Mini Mafia)
Vivax (I disagree with everyone, being confident =/= being straight forward and giving unexplained town passes, especially from a guy that I remember seeing flipping his reads constantly based on tinfoil theories. Here I see a guy with static reads that are never updatedSpecial ? category: Slam (although people say slam is unreadable, I usually can read him better on later days so I don't really want to think about him on day1) On October 23 2015 16:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 16:01 GlowingBear wrote:
I seriously don't understand why I'm being scumread.
Could you please enlighten me? Because you are pushing a bad reasoned read. Because the way you defend yourself is exactly what you do as scum. Because you said you reda the thread but you actually didn't, not even close. On October 23 2015 16:21 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 16:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 23 2015 16:01 GlowingBear wrote:
I seriously don't understand why I'm being scumread.
Could you please enlighten me? Because you are pushing a bad reasoned read. Because the way you defend yourself is exactly what you do as scum. Because you said you reda the thread but you actually didn't, not even close. I've actually read this thread more closely than any recent games I've played. You should be able to tell by the time stamps. I've spent almost 3 hours reading and thinking about it. I think my reasons are fair enough to vote Vivax. He has yet to explain the townreads, his activity dropped, his reads are static. I think this makes Vivax mafia. If you don't, fair enough. But I don't understand how you can possibly believe I, as mafia, would call both you and marv town while disagreeing with your top town reads. I defended myself by using logic. Thinking someone is scum and asking questions doesn't make my read premeditated. I will always further investigate what I find suspicious. On October 23 2015 23:24 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 19:06 marvellosity wrote:
GB, why is Chrome your #1 townread above all others? Marv, I think he is being productive and trying to solve the game. He has been trying to push his scum reads. There was a particular post I liked and I've put it in the spoilered part of my list post. It's this one: + Show Spoiler +On October 22 2015 11:08 Chromatically wrote:
I'm back, I'm planning on rereading the thread and looking more into some people but here's where I'm at now:
- gumshoe feels really town, especially that last post. The way he rambles shows a town thought process in his posts.
- I don't think BH has done anything alignment indicative and I don't understand why people are reading him town.
- I liked when rayn said, "Chrom would be town if I hadn't been scum with him before", I think that statement usually comes from someone honestly trying to read me (i.e. town).
- Hopeless' entrance felt awkward to me, did not like it.
- Xatalos is town for driving discussion and the stuff he says comes from a town perspective, probably Vivax too for similar reasons.
If anyone has questions I'd love to hear them because an uncomfortable amount of people seem to think I'm mafia and I don't like it. The part where he talks about BH is exactly what I was thinking at that moment. Marv I asked you and Rayn if you like any of the lynch targets I proposed, can you take a look at it? It's easy to find in my filter because it's the only colored post. On October 24 2015 00:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 00:03 GlowingBear wrote:On October 23 2015 23:58 marvellosity wrote:On October 23 2015 23:57 GlowingBear wrote:On October 23 2015 23:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 23 2015 19:28 marvellosity wrote:
the funny thing is, one thing that makes me unsure about GB being mafia - both rayn and I stated pretty early that Vivax was town and I think it was kinda obvious we were serious about it. So I guess GB-mafia in that instance somehow decides to go against both me and rayn and push a very weak meta case? it's practically suicidal. maybe he's just town and believes it... dno right now and btw this is what GB does as scum. He basically does something that is "too scummy to be scum" then, when called out for it he says "mafia would never do that so i am not mafia". Hell he isn't even really defending his read (see Trfel/Damdred last game), he just says "i would not pick Vivax as my target as mafia because people are townreading him". No, that's not what I do every time, get your head off your ass, I just played a game where I was town and I defended myself the same way. If you think I'm not defending my read you should fucking read me instead of calling me scum. It's fucking annoying when someone call me mafia without even reading a two page filter. I fucking ASKED you if you liked one of my reads. great inacitivty lynch  I was at my night class when the game stared and I'm playing two games - when I've got the time I read the whole thread and gave my impressions on all players. no you didn't read the thread. if you did you would know what your townreads (chrom/me/marv) say about your lynch targets. you would also know i don't read you town at that point. so you didn't actually read the thread. On October 24 2015 00:41 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 00:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 24 2015 00:36 GlowingBear wrote:On October 24 2015 00:32 Xatalos wrote:
GB, if you're town, seriously don't just commit suicide here. Looks like it's heading towards you vs rayn and it'd be sad if you caused your own death there, like a certain player in my newbie game.... I'm not commiting suicide, I'm getting angry that such shitty scum read on me based on a read that I find very reasonable and I'm having a hard time believing good players can't possibly see I'm town. Then start playing as town, vote for slam, and stop asking questions about what you should already know instead of telling us you have read the thread. I HAVE READ THE THREAD I KNOW YOU "YOLO'ED" AND CALLED ONEGU TOWN FOR NO REASON I KNOW YOU META'ED HOPELESS AND CALLED HIM TOWN I KNOW MARV AND YOU HAD TWO INITIAL TOWNREADS - XATALOS AND VIVAX I KNOW YOU FUCKING HAD GUMSHOE AS MAFIA THEN FLIPPED YOUR READ WHY CAN'T I BRING WHAT I THINK ABOUT PLAYERS AND ASK YOU TO COMMENT ABOUT WHAT I'VE BROUGHT INSTEAD OF SAYING "OH OKAY RAYN SAID THESE GUYS ARE TOWN SO THEY ARE"????!?!?? JESUS CHRIST On October 24 2015 04:07 GlowingBear wrote:
I don't want to lynch chromatically. Especially now that Vivax is voting him.
And I've been putting thoughts on Rayn. His flip one is bad. He said it was very unlikely I was scum and that I was very level headed with my read in Vivax.
Then Vivax said something about me scum reading him before asking questions, and Rayn agreed and called me scum over the same posts he called me "very unlikely to be mafia". It doesn't make sense.
I'm voting rayn mmmmmmmmm..... and here... Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 00:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You literally had fucking 20 hours to re-evaluate, you called me town ALL THAT IME, then you suddenly think i am a better lynch than Slam who you had no read on.
Go GB, GO! The fact is this has nothing to do with either: 1) re-evaluating a read, or 2) not having read the thread GlowingBear calls me town, then calls me mafia 20 hours later while calling me town there all the time between. Nowhere there does he make any attempt to re-evaluate anything, also i asked him multiple times if he has read the thread properly. He says "yes i have". This is not re-evaluating something (in contrary to for what example i did regarding my reads on ritoky / GB on D1), because he never shows any process of re-evaluation. Then, he just ends up saying the same bullshit Xatalos is pushing. Now idk, maybe he expected Slam to get lynched and didn't want to be on a mislynch wagon, or maybe he expected Xatalos to be able to lynch me which would be a much better for mafia than Slam lynched. idk. But still, the fact is he ended up voting for his townread over someone who he "can't get a read on" (=null). That, is a fact, and he just made up reasons for the read, as shown above.
Hopeless is another scum since he just doesn't play anymore. He can also get lynched. Next thing is to read Onegu, and unless i come to the conclusion he is scum then the next thing is to read BH. Just because BH does not really take any stance on any lynch. He really does not, he goes onto his shennies which gives him outs left and right saying either "i was right", "i tried to lynch mafia", "i didn't want to lynch town", or if he hit mafia "i actually wanted to lynch that mafia". Shennies are bullshit and they don't even happen. Period. He is not trying to lynch anyone for reals.
Why not include GB here:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 28 2015 12:21 Onegu wrote:
Rayn scum reads Xata, and hopeless and then dies. Coincidence I think not.
Anyway I am going to bed.
We should lynch xata or hopeless today.
Just a really derpy post, he thinks GB is town contrary to what rayn posted last. And wtf is a clout?
+ Show Spoiler +On October 30 2015 01:32 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 00:44 Xatalos wrote:
Dunno... It just feels like he throws scum/townreads around too casually. This Xatalos/hopeless thing now too... Ignoring rayn's scumreads on GB/ritoky.... And instead pushing us two.. Why? The main reason is because I am scum reading you two more. GB needs looked at also, but I feel multiple people scum read GB maybe he shoots rayn, but only rayn and myself were scum reading you. Rayn had the clout that I dont to actually lynch you.
Then says he agreed with most of rayn's reads and later drops the vote on Hopeless over GB who is way more likely to be lynched.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 30 2015 01:42 Onegu wrote:
Rayns reads were correct and that is why he was killed. A serious rayn is capable of putting a legit case on scum even if he is being scum read getting that person lynched.
I wasnt surprised rayn was killed. I town read him hard. I agreed with most of his reads.
In a world where I am scum this game I dont kill Rayn, I am not going to kill the only person that is town reading me this game. It would be suicide for me. Killing rayn takes pressure off of the people he was scum reading and lets them put pressure on me. They want this mislynch on me it gets them to lylo.
Conclusion: Onegu really posts confused things.
Or he's mafia with GB and tries to push us all to hopeless, cause otherwise I can't explain why he's so hung up on rayn's reads when he misses or disregards the fattest of them.
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EPT
