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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 30 2015 06:33 ruXxar wrote: Why shouldn't RS die over VA? VA hadn't outed the fact that he was jailkeeper at that point. I really like your point about keeping RS alive if HF is town and let her get the ML going. Scratch my first paragraph. I remembered wrong. | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 29 2015 10:38 Holyflare wrote: like i don't have to tell you how retarded it is to not be on a unanimous target regardless of what you think today Being on a unanimous target is a sign that we're voting off town or mafia bussing their teammate, with the first being more likely than the second. I don't like the feeling I get when a lynch goes through unanimously, unless there it's very clear that a target is going to be lynched. Which is why it's also important to look for the people that are pushing in opposite directions and discern their motivation for doing so. (maybe they are trying to save their mafia buddy from the train ?). | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 29 2015 10:44 Holyflare wrote: and I keep saying I won't get mislynched because I will simply not allow it to happen, I've only ever been mislynched once in 30 town games and it's quite apparent why when i'm pretty much universally town read despite having a red check on me This only means that you have a lot of experience playing mafia and know what it means to play towny. When you play up against people playing their 1st or second game, there's no wonder you'll appear more towny than them. This doesn't prove your innocence. | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 29 2015 10:55 NydusHerMain wrote: What the fuck? You think that if I'm mafia, you're the mislynch I try to land on? You think I'm going to run out of scummy people? Dude, if I'm scum, at least one of damdred, onegu, shockey is town. I can push damdred on inactivity, I can push onegu on inactivity and his LS push, I can push shockey for being scummy overall. Oh wait, I have been pushing on almost all of them this entire game. Everyone who's alive today? I've pushed on except for you until now. I also agree with nydus point here. Right now the absolutely easiest mislynch is Onegu(imo). If I was mafia and onegu was town I would make her my #1 target right now and push her very hard. This is sort of a dilemma because he actually does appear really scummy and I don't agree with the way he plays or the logic he uses. However, since no one else seems to be shitting down onegu's throat, it makes me more inclined to believe he's actually mafia(why wouldn't mafia be all over a target that is such an easy mislynch?!) In my last game I got fooled by the "too obvious to be scum" idea in that I felt a certain person made such obviously scummy moves that no one would make it so obvious that they are scum. It burned me in the end when it turned out the person was scum all along and I hard defended him as town. I learned from this and at this point "too scummy to be scum" is not a valid excuse for me to not push someone. | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 29 2015 11:04 Onegu wrote: Its in my filter. He knows there is a framer. He knows you were framed, he claimed being red saying that you are red. "Knows" is a pretty serious word to use here. Nowhere in LS filter does he say that he knows anything. I don't understand where you keep getting these ideas from. He didn't claim being red, he made up a scenario and explained what it entailed.... Here is the actual quote for those who missed it : | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 30 2015 04:04 Damdred wrote: And at the same time, we have to ask ourselves why would mig go out of his way to claim get gb lynched and lynch himself. There are only two answers at this point 1) Set up a mislynch on HF the next following day where a red check screwed up town and lost the game. 2) HF is the RB and is needed to block vayne so that the kill isn't blocked the next night. If we believe option 2 then rux is more than likely not mafia at all. Option one he still could be. #1 I don't agree. There's no way mig could've known that VA would out himself. Without the claim by VA, I'm fairly certain it would've failed. Why not just let HF die and get +1 townkill before he died himself? Seems like a really dumb move to me. #2 is possibility but it's sort of out there... what made you think of this? | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 30 2015 05:40 NydusHerMain wrote: Actually I think it has the chance to prove something. 1) if they were scum reading bugs, probably means that they thought it was a roleblocker meaning bugs would be mafia since if it was a town roleblocker they were hunting for, bugs is scum that carried kp 2) if they were town reading bugs, NAI because they could hunt for medic if bugs is saved or bugs could be roleblocked as mafia and still look for a jailer thinking that jailer will believe he is town Can you ELI 5? I have a hard time understand all the role stuff :<. | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 30 2015 06:42 Holyflare wrote: You've made several posts like these where you use extra knowledge that doesn't quite make sense. You declare that mafia must be on the wagon with Mig because mafia must need to support him. IF YOU BELIEVE THIS SCENARIO then it's almost IMPOSSIBLE for me to be mafia unless you think the mafia plan was to destroy 2 of their team. It's been laid out several times. You ignore all of this logic. You declare wild statements that mafia needed to do something but then never follow it up with what happens if i'm town or any other situation that could possibly happen. My logic has been really simple to follow and I've outlined it many times how I've been thinking, but I'll repeat it again since it seems I'm unable to make myself clear. This is how my world aligns. If you don't agree that's fine, but this is how I was thinking: - You were getting lynched. - Mig should be content with letting you die. - Despite this mig fake claims against GB. - IMO this is a stupid move, unless he has some confidence that he can take GB down. - To take GB down he needs supportive votes or else he's just getting himself lynched. (VA claim notwithstanding). And how would this make you look more scummy? You already had a redcheck on you, you already were fighting for your life, and it's very understandable that a town person would do so in this position. He did not put you in any more danger by claiming. The only thing people have against you really is the redcheck. Not the fact that you voted for GB! On June 30 2015 06:42 Holyflare wrote: You ignore onegu being mafia (yes yes you scum read him at other points) but use the logic that mafia must have needed to support him to paint ME as mafia and NOT Onegu. It doesn't make a single bit of sense. I really am not ignoring onegu, but it's really hard to argue with someone that doesn't reply or come up with new thoughts. How do you have a discussion with someone that is afk all game? It's hard. Like, why doesn't he come here and try to refute the points made against him? It's frustrating because it only makes me scumread him more when he doesn't even defend himself. It's exactly the same situation I had in my newbie game which I just played prior. I really wanted to pressure a guy because he appeared scummy to everyone but me who thought he was "shitty town". Turns out he was scum that was just afk half the time and gave nonsensical answers the rest of the time. He acted exactly the same way that onegu is acting now, and I still thought it was "shitty town". If onegu doesn't step it up soon and contribute to the discussion I can't read it any other way than confirmation of him being mafia. This goes for everyone that's lurking btw. On June 30 2015 06:42 Holyflare wrote: I don't believe that a person that wants to win the game like you claim would stick to the red check when it's been proven that: a) it doesn't make any sense for me to be mafia with Mig unless he decided to be a dick and kill his team mate for no reason b) it's been said a million times by people more experienced with my play that i'm town c) you've even suggested you would do other things than flat out believe i was mafia from a red check and have failed to do so: a) Don't see how mig's claim hurts you at all, see above. b) Okay, so I'm not allowed to have my own opinion(especially when those people could be mafia). c) I am looking into other people, doesn't mean I've suddenly dropped you off the radar, it's just that people have such short filters it's like almost nothing to go on aside from what we've already discussed. We do have to find the rest of the mafia after all or we'll lose anyway. | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 30 2015 06:45 Holyflare wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2015 06:17 ruXxar wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2015 06:03 rsoultin wrote: -flicks- not true. i'm just opinionated lol >< being confirmed town is hella nice though okay let me break this down for people in an easy-to-follow format 1. We need to determine whether or not we believe Glowingbear's claim now as opposed to later. It's common sense, but if you're the real cop here and we're lynching GB's red check, you claim. 2. We need to determine whether or not we believe the red check is real. What I mean by this, is do we think Holyflare is actually scum? There is the potential for millers and a MAFIA FRAMER in the game, which means that GB's could be real but his results are still false. THE FLIP TO DETERMINE ALIGNMENT IS A BAD IDEA. SCUM CAN BUSS AND CLAIM A FAKE CHECK. THERE COULD BE A FRAMER. STOP BEING LAZY. Everyone needs to address these two questions separate of the check. Here's how I see it: This is the order of events: - GB claims DT. - GB claims greencheck on mig. - Night 1 ends. - GB does *not* die. This means that mig should be confirmed mafia since the mafia would KNOW the greencheck was false and not kill GB since they thought the claim was fake. This makes me think it's better to actually lynch mig first, since we have the strongest evidence for him being mafia. The check on HF could, as you said be either a framer or a miller, so it's better to go with the sure option first. Until someone CC's I'll believe GB's claim. ##Vote mig What changed from here to now? Lot's of evidence to suggest i'm town but now you need my mislynch because the poe is running out. PoE is not running out, you're just the more likely scum in my eyes. And the fact is that it's always better to lynch the more likely scumtarget first, because if it flips red you can look into associations from their play to find other likely scum targets. So what did we gather from Migs filter now that he's flipped red? Well, not very much. I looked through his filter and I really couldn't find any strong connections. Maybe I didn't look good enough, maybe I don't have enough experience to pick up on mafia ways of playing. Doesn't mean that it's not there. Nydus pointed out some things that may be worth looking into. This is what sucks when you flip red lurkers. They say so little that you can't really draw many conclusions from their filter. However, I'm not content just sitting on you until the day runs out, I want to find the other scum too. I can't rest thinking, oh yeah I found 1 scum, let's figure the rest out tomorrow. That's a terrible way to play when we're in such a tight situation. So if you want to prove your innocence, once again, help us find scum. That's the best way you can convince me at least that you're town. My vote is parked on you atm, but it may change as the day unfolds. | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 30 2015 06:45 NydusHerMain wrote: If we're not voting unanimously and even one town votes on another town, mafia can swap all their votes at eod and we lose. That's why we need to pick one target Hmm.. didn't think of that. good point. | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 30 2015 06:46 NydusHerMain wrote: At the end of the day, it's on Fidei to pick the final lynch because he's guaranteed town I strongly disagree. Just because he's confirmed town doesn't mean that his reads are *better* than our reads. We can be sure that his reads are *honest*, but not that they are necessarily better than everyone else's. They could be just as wrong as the reads that every other town person has had so far. That's why we've lynched so many town people up to this point. | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 30 2015 07:36 Damdred wrote: I think this is a weird way to phrase what you actually mean about onegu? It looks weird to me at least. And whats your conclusion on all of this? My conclusion is that it makes looks onegu look even worse than no one's trying really hard to get him lynched. Or maybe the mafia is aware of this fact(not unlikely), and are not pushing onegu on purpose. Too much WIFOM if I follow that line of thought, so I rather not. Either way it doesn't excuse the fact that onegu looks scummy as hell to me. | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 30 2015 07:50 Damdred wrote: Ummmm I don't think you understand how #1 works. It doesn't revolve Vayne outing himself at all, however Scum knows that someone interacted in some way with Bugs night one. That's an added bonus. And honestly, Mig was outed as mafia anyway in gbs world 100% anyway. Theres no way he should of lived through the night as the cop just pure disbelief of the claim and no reason to let him get another check anyway. And actually his claim was perfect to draw out the rb or jk (even though they knew it was a jk anyway). And #2 happens all the time. Still not sure I understand #1. You're saying mig claimed without thinking he could take down GB because: - Mig gets lynched, flips red. - GB survives the night(saved by JK) and everyone believes GB is now DT. - Next day GB pushes HF and HF flips miller / framed. Is this correct? | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 30 2015 09:20 Holyflare wrote: The post you criticised me in had that exact line in it -.- -.- -.- I'm really finding it hard to believe you're actually thinking logically about this game at all when you nitpick individual points and try and turn it into me being scummy instead. LOL, not sure how I missed that. Really sorry HF  .You're right that I'm a little too stuck up on you though. There's really not much more to gain by reiterating that you have a red-check on you, and we've pretty much discussed most of the scenarios anyway. Help me find other scum will you?  | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
He went from LS to Boxerfred to GB to boxerfred. And he switched to GB simply because he was being ignored? I'll make a mini-case about it in a bit. I also find his posting lackluster in general, and he's been going under the radar quite a bit. | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 30 2015 09:18 Holyflare wrote: GB makes a play that reveals that Mig is mafia. Mig would have definitely died that day instead of me, especially when the 2 masons were on him and pushing for his lynch over mine. If he didn't die that day and I died (free mislynch for mafia) mafia then need to kill the cop/the jk/2 masons and whatever else there is there. Look at this from a mafia perspective. Mig does not counter claim and I get mislynched. Mig would die if I flipped miller the next day without a doubt in my mind. 1 mislynch, mig 100% dies, mafia need to kill 4 blue roles with 1kp each night, don't know who jk is either Mig does not counter claim and he dies. Mig dies, GB needs to be killed at night but might get saved, I get mislynched the next day, mafia don't have a role cop to find out who the jker is. 1 POTENTIAL mislynch, mig 100% dies, need to kill 4 blue roles and they don't know who jker is If mig counter claims, GB dies - 3 blues needed to be killed with 1kp each night - Mig 100% dies the next day, cop is revealed as true and holyflare gets lynched because of it as ANOTHER mislynch 2 mislynches, mig 100% dies, mafia need to kill 3 blue roles with 1kp each night, mybe jk claims and they know who it is If both me and mig are mafia and he cc's gb 1 POTENTIAL mislynch, BOTH ME AND MIG DIE when gb flips cop since mig is revealed from trap and i have been red checked, 3 more blues to find and potentially a jker outs or doesn't out 1 POTENTIAL mislynch, -2 mafia, potentially find out who jker is if they out themselves or use role cop 1 mislynch, -1 mafia, gb confirmed cop and maybe doesn't die and they need to medic dodge +1 confirmed 1 POTENTIAL mislynch 2 mislynches, -1 mafia, only 3 blues to kill and jker found which one do you think mafia takes? the one where they kill 2 of their team mates for 1 potential mislynch play on gb or the one where they get 2 mislynches in both me and gb and perhaps out the jker? I think it's quite obvious I would not allow the shit play to happen 10/10 times if I was mafia because it's fucking dumb When you put it like this it sort of makes sense. Hmm hmm hmm hmm.... .... ... | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
Actually it's not even that. This game is just boring if people can't be arsed to participate. Like, come on. It's almost like I want to town read people at this point just by being active since really, what's the point in playing if no one cares to give any effort. The core fundamental of the game relies on communication and interaction, and when people aren't even committed to that it's like.. What's the point anymore. At some point you just stop giving any shits when you see that people don't care anymore. I rather play a fun and action packed game where I lose, rather than a game full of Lurkers where I win in the end. There's no satisfaction in that. /endrant | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
So if you think my post is fake that's just fine. Right now I don't care anymore. I'm just going to spice things up to make the game more interesting for myself. | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
I'm parking my vote on scummy lurkers until they show up and defend themselves. Either play the game or get lynched. ##vote onegu | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
I lean slightly more towards onegu for total lack of rational thought process. Like he makes some weird ass statements I don't understand at all. Like saying you have TMI. Saying you claimed red. Saying he voted on gb because he wanted to consolidate. Tunneling you all game for no fucking reason, just because he has a personal vendetta against you? Then when you are actually green checked he makes up hilariously unlikely scenarios to fit his world. Not one solid read out of that guy and afk all game? Fuck that, I'm done. | ||
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so I gave a quick post before reading
