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On June 23 2015 01:29 ruXxar wrote:
So wave, you said that you had something special planted earlier. Has it come to fruition yet?
I can explain what both of my 'traps' were if that concerns you for any reason, in the spirit of transparency.
On June 20 2015 00:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
There's also something I'm waiting for that's likely to happen later in the day.
Consider the Bat Trap™ set.
For this one at the time I actually didn't expect Scott to be lynched, especially as at that point I didn't think he was the most likely option for scum. It's rare for me to see a wagon pick up steam so early in a day and keep that steam basically unopposed throughout the entire day.
I wanted to have a look at who would start the most likely opposing wagon when it seemed Scott's was going to fail (which I assumed it would) and who immediately jumped on it and why. I felt that it wasn't likely for scum to start an opposing wagon, however scum would not necessarily be so quick to want to jump off a mislynch so i was going to be looking for any resistance to what I felt would be a natural switch off of scott. Obviously that never came and I changed my mind on scott personally as well.
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On June 18 2015 06:59 WaveofShadow wrote:
Lol just kidding!!
Ruxxar oats seem most likely just make sure you guys don't discount people like moosy and bats entirely
Gl guys!
This one less a trap and more an attempt to see if I could get scum to avoid killing me because Moosy was pretty obviously town (or likely a blue role) as we found out. By calling him scum maybe I could have WIFOMed scum into leaving him (and me) alive with the pretense that I would push him and mislynch the next day. I think my intentions may have been too obvious here tbh.
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On June 23 2015 01:50 ruXxar wrote:There was also one for today: Post.Or is that one still active?
No that one went to shit with the claim.
I was sitting back to see if an alternative wagon to Oats was started to attempt to save him (hence my hesitation to vote---wanted to see if anyone would see it as an opportunity to start something else in the hope that I would follow before I did it myself), but that's impossible at this point.
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On June 23 2015 01:55 ruXxar wrote:
I also need to hear why trfel omitted that one game from his list -_-
I mean I assume it was an oversight, but yeah, guy needs to explain it himself.
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On June 23 2015 02:32 Rels wrote:
OK WOS didn't answer my question immediately. Whatever his excuse is, negative point it is.
This really annoys me for the record.
Like if you want to lynch me and think Oats is actually the cop, fine, but to give out arbitrary 'negative points' AFTER you're already voting me because I'm not in front of my computer right when you want me to be is horseshit.
Again as I've mentioned before, by the PoE I've done today so far I'd guess last scum to be Ruxxar but that's not complete. My best course of action today in order to ensure this game continues is to make sure as many people as possible are on Oats to minimize the ability for last second shenanigans or switching, so I'll concern myself with that when he flips red.
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On June 23 2015 03:02 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2015 02:54 Trfel wrote:You're right, I missed that game somehow. See the spoiler for more power role analysis. + Show Spoiler +The game had town Roleblocker, Cop, and Mason pair versus mafia Roleblocker and Godfather.
So, this is four town power roles. However, a mason pair isn't very strong, the only real use is to claim (and even this can be unreliable). Overall, I'd say both masons are about the strength of one weaker normal blue role.
Furthermore, town Roleblockers are really weird. At the start of the game they are extremely weak, being as likely to hit town power roles as mafia carrying KP. Looking at the setup, the town has roleblocker as a possible role option, but no watcher/tracker. Therefore, in this setup mafia will be using their least suspected player to deliver KP, making the roleblocker extremely weak until there are few people left, when it's extremely strong.
Despite this game having four power roles, they're generally weaker. This game is balanced, despite mafia having the same, standard roleblocker/godfather setup as in all of the other, standard, two power role games.
Mad Hatter feels like a moderately strong role. Compare it to vigilante. When the Mad Hatter gets lynched, it's like a vigilante who gets to fire in the day. Otherwise, it's like a vigilante who gets to hold their bullet until the end of the game, but doesn't have to worry about being killed early. The disadvantage of the mad hatter is that their action is far less immediate than the vigilante's, and the vigilante can sometimes provide a confirmed town (which the mad hatter can rarely do).
Doctor is an extremely strong power role throughout the game. Can help confirm people, can help keep top townies alive, can block mafia KP, can force mafia to choose sub-optimal night kills. No downside to targeting town power roles (actually, an upside), and no downside to targeting mafia.
Cop is fairly strong, but I've heard that Doctor is a bit stronger.
It's hard to see town having the blue power of Cop/Doctor/Mad Hatter. Still, if Oatsmaster is the cop, then he's the cop. The setup analysis is something to use to help make a decision, but it's not a stand-alone argument. It's important, but much less important than standard forms of analysis. If the only reason you think that Oatsmaster is scum is because of the power role balance, then you need to rethink that read. Look, I kinda agree with your analysis. But I don't care for excuses. You did forget one game which convienently had 3 power roles. You can explain it all you want after, the fact you did is real and won't disappear. Anyway unless ruxxar or Kickstart can find some WOS scumslips, I'll stay like that.
And I'm pretty sure it's been explained to you already (and shown by the geript flip) that isolated scumslips are just not likely to come from scum as is. If you're to call me scum it should be blaring at you from the heavens. There should be something overarching about my play that feels wrong, or forced, or with a specific agenda in mind, or whatever. But I'm willing to bet you're not getting that, and I'm pretty sure I know why that is.
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Tomorrow we don't MYLO, we no lynch to make things easier. Oats flips now, then it's 4-1. Then scum kills me because I am confirmed town and it's 3-1, leaving you guys to make a decision between the 4 of you, but since you don't have any sure things to help you make that choice, you no lynch and force scum to kill one of you, making LYLO a 33% chance of hitting scum rather than 25%. There is TONS of time.
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On June 23 2015 03:10 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2015 03:08 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 23 2015 03:02 Rels wrote:On June 23 2015 02:54 Trfel wrote:You're right, I missed that game somehow. See the spoiler for more power role analysis. + Show Spoiler +The game had town Roleblocker, Cop, and Mason pair versus mafia Roleblocker and Godfather.
So, this is four town power roles. However, a mason pair isn't very strong, the only real use is to claim (and even this can be unreliable). Overall, I'd say both masons are about the strength of one weaker normal blue role.
Furthermore, town Roleblockers are really weird. At the start of the game they are extremely weak, being as likely to hit town power roles as mafia carrying KP. Looking at the setup, the town has roleblocker as a possible role option, but no watcher/tracker. Therefore, in this setup mafia will be using their least suspected player to deliver KP, making the roleblocker extremely weak until there are few people left, when it's extremely strong.
Despite this game having four power roles, they're generally weaker. This game is balanced, despite mafia having the same, standard roleblocker/godfather setup as in all of the other, standard, two power role games.
Mad Hatter feels like a moderately strong role. Compare it to vigilante. When the Mad Hatter gets lynched, it's like a vigilante who gets to fire in the day. Otherwise, it's like a vigilante who gets to hold their bullet until the end of the game, but doesn't have to worry about being killed early. The disadvantage of the mad hatter is that their action is far less immediate than the vigilante's, and the vigilante can sometimes provide a confirmed town (which the mad hatter can rarely do).
Doctor is an extremely strong power role throughout the game. Can help confirm people, can help keep top townies alive, can block mafia KP, can force mafia to choose sub-optimal night kills. No downside to targeting town power roles (actually, an upside), and no downside to targeting mafia.
Cop is fairly strong, but I've heard that Doctor is a bit stronger.
It's hard to see town having the blue power of Cop/Doctor/Mad Hatter. Still, if Oatsmaster is the cop, then he's the cop. The setup analysis is something to use to help make a decision, but it's not a stand-alone argument. It's important, but much less important than standard forms of analysis. If the only reason you think that Oatsmaster is scum is because of the power role balance, then you need to rethink that read. Look, I kinda agree with your analysis. But I don't care for excuses. You did forget one game which convienently had 3 power roles. You can explain it all you want after, the fact you did is real and won't disappear. Anyway unless ruxxar or Kickstart can find some WOS scumslips, I'll stay like that. And I'm pretty sure it's been explained to you already (and shown by the geript flip) that isolated scumslips are just not likely to come from scum as is. If you're to call me scum it should be blaring at you from the heavens. There should be something overarching about my play that feels wrong, or forced, or with a specific agenda in mind, or whatever. But I'm willing to bet you're not getting that, and I'm pretty sure I know why that is. You're actually so wrong. It's exactly the inverse. I HAVE the fucking feeling you're weird, but can't find any hints to that.
Then describe it.
What about me feels weird?
And if so, why do you only now feel weird about me once it has been pointed out to you that I have a potential redcheck on me? If I was there was something to make you feel that way previously, would you not have felt that way before?
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On June 23 2015 03:10 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2015 18:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
Look at the reaction from wave. Does that look like the reaction of a townie getting fake redchecked?
It looks like the reaction of mafia that got caught. Why does it look like this? He got mad, and yes that is scummy. But his post about the timing of your claim is a really good point and perfectly matches what town!WaveofShadow should be trying to do. Show nested quote +On June 22 2015 16:57 Oatsmaster wrote:
Let's go with bats first.I thought he was town during d1 but when geript flipped town, I thought I should check bats to make sure that he wasnt fooling me because it didn't look like he was gonna get lynched the next day anyway.
2nd day. I thought it was a bus because it would've be suspicious for people to lynch kickstart when sulph was really obvious mafia. I don't think mafia tried to lynch Kickstart over sulph. Knowing Kickstart's alignment then makes it easier to find the mafia team. Also he wasn't on the chopping block or shooting block so imo it was a great check. I didn't do jack with this in terms of analysing other dudes though. Life is tough
3rd day,
At this point, I'm running outta checks. It's still not lylo though so I'm not checking damdred, there are better check and I have explained why.
I set a trap for damdred earlier in the day though. I'm pretty sure Scott hasn't gotten lynched at that point so I was setting a trap just to confirm him for people who have no idea.
Ok, so you admit that you checked Kickstart to help with association reads but didn't actually follow through with this. Then Day 3, when you supposedly knew that Kickstart was town, why were you still yelling at people to not make association reads for the Sulfurus lynch? So there were some people who had no idea that Damdred was mafia. Then why did you say you didn't want to check Damdred because everyone knew he was mafia and it was too obvious?
I don't see why getting mad is scummy in the slightest tbh. When someone misrepresents your play and is posting lie about you, what is the natural reaction to that?
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On June 23 2015 03:16 Rels wrote:
No you were my 100% town read until a few hours ago.
When I found that Trfel's missing game I had the feeling I was missing something.
Like he did a case on everyone but not a "super scummy" Sulfurus.
You and Trfel had opposite opinions all game too. That's almost look like that's on purpose. On me, Damdred, Sulfurus, scott ... you were two of the most town read players, but never killed and never on the same page.
And lastly, I find weird that you had NO thoughts regarding the last scum, given that if you are really town, you must have thought about the game during 24 hours knowing Oats is mafia.
Voilà, here is my feeling.
That's not true, I was 100% on the same page about scott by the end of that day, and as I recall we also had similar thoughts regarding Moosy and maybe kickstart as well? I'm nto sure what having differing opinions from someone is supposed to say about me being scum.
And I don't have NO thoughts regarding last scum. I've been attempting to analyze while I've been here in between bouts of defending myself and responding to pressure, I just currently feel that ensuring I don't get lynched is the mroe important factor here since, you know, me getting lynched LOSES town the game.
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On June 23 2015 03:24 Kickstart wrote:
And I know this is a terrible fucking way to play and a complete non-reason as far as logic goes, but I would rather lose to anyone than a scum oats here. So meh.
I'm guilty of having done this before.
And lost as a result. To HF I think.
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I'm also heading out.
FOR THOSE CURIOUS: I have a couple errands to run, then I am picking my son up from daycare and don't usually have much time to post anything other than one-liner-y stuff until well after deadline when he goes to bed.
Stay the course gentlemen, this game is absolutely winnable.
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LOL OATS YOU FAKECLAIMED?
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You loveable moron.
I'm going to do a bit of a write up once I getntona computer
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We were discussing how imbalanced the setupbwas with a cop, at least we were right.
Newbies I recommend you read the scum qt and the paste bin link to our Skype conversations. Might give decent insight into mafia mindset.
Trfel gets mvp this game I think
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On June 23 2015 07:07 ruXxar wrote:
Wave I want to know, did you post that list at of EON of day 3 to frame damdred? Please tell me I was right about that.
No. It was just to stay consistent. We knew we were shooting the mad hatter. We took a huge risk and it paid off.
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And yeah anyone who knows oats at all would have read him as town I think. All that contradiction and jumping all over the place and sniping lol
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And also you guys should have no lynched for info imo
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Poor moosy.
That blue claim
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I almost want to do a podcast on this one, but maybe that's cause I was a part of it lol
I just feel like there are a lot of good general lessons to learn from this game.
Did you guys use your coaches?
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EPT
