On June 05 2015 04:48 Damdred wrote:
Case on kick start:
Posts are quite large but lack a lot of content that the length of posts shoud curtail.
Hounds people for reads but when confronted for his own reads he gives only smoke scum read that is rehashed fom others in the thread, sl scum read at this point is an afterthought and feels contrived.
When asks about a town read gives a weak list post, and when confronted on another read that doesn't make sense he backs off of it completely.
Shit fights me with for calling his posts out. Instead of concluding I'm scum from such things he concludes I just don't like him.
Talks to me like I'm town and just tunneled on him instead of one of his top scum reads.
Has sheeped thread sentiment almost at every turn.
condensed feelings
1. This is how I post, you can tell by my intro post and by looking at my previous games, which I linked as soon as there was concern over my 'posting style'. Not liking the way I post is not a reason for thinking I am scum.
2. I've given several reads, just for you I'll post them here since you are clearly not going to read through my filter even though you keep saying this point which is blatantly not true.
My initial long post when I put a vote on milo, give my SL suspicions, and give my ritocky and VE town reads. check my filter, it is impossible for me to figure out the formatting sorry.
On June 04 2015 03:26 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hmm, only 2 ish pages after being asleep forever =[. I did see that Onegu did actually post once yesterday upon rereading through the thread though  , totally missed it and thought he hadn't posted at all, to be fair though he may as well not have; here is his post, pretty void of any content (I do get an odd vibe from it though, seems he is doing an awful lot of "I am town look at me"): On June 03 2015 09:25 Onegu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok so here is the deal. I am the best player in this game. Yeah Damdred/VE are good, but no where near as awesome as me. So you guys are lucky I didnt roll scum or this game would be already over. Scum is lucky I didnt roll blue or this game would also already be over.
Ritoky is bad and knows it, SL gives everyone headaches.
The rest of you DONT KNOW WHO THE FUCK I AM. I AM ONEGU LEARN IT!!!! KNOW IT!!!
VE is scum trying to make someone look bad for saying someone is AFK comeon man.
Ritoky prolly town for doing the GIF thing since his last gif game was scum.
Rest of you I need more time.
Oh here is my claim...
I am shitty ass VT. I still stand by my initial two scum reads on milo and sicklucker for now but I have some reservations for each now, more so than I initially did when I made this post: On June 03 2015 09:59 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So my top scumread is still milo. On miloI of course posted earlier on but as I indicated earlier his posts since then I have still found suspect. I may be tunneling him way too hard but I am just being honest that he is still my main scum read. My main thoughts on him are here, most relevant parts are bolded: On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:33 Kickstart wrote:
Well, those that have played with ritoky, is he always like this? I suppose if he always does this he has to keep up his 'meta', however annoying and unhelpful it happens to be.
Also, I could of had time after roles were sent to write up that post, but I will be honest and admit I didn't =]. I had to edit it a bit though because there was quite a bit going on before and while the game started. My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote:
Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ miloCan you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote:
I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote:
Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature:
##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote. To summarize this post, his initial vote on ritocky I found suspect because he made it just because he didn't like his posting without first trying to figure out if this was normal. He had no way of knowing if this was normal from rickoty, but unlike me who tried to figure out if it was normal before making a decision, he straight up throws down a vote because he just doesn't like it. The editing in my post where I voted on him is so wonky I can't figure it out. Regardless, at that point my most relevant point is that milo was again contradicting himself: On June 03 2015 07:01 Kickstart wrote:
Unfortunatly milo this again makes no sense to me, you say you are not comfortable reading people scummy yet throw a vote on him because you just said you don't think (or you aren't convinced) that he is town, which means you DID in fact read him as scummy. But an even bigger issue than that for me is that that is not what you said when you threw down the vote, you threw down the vote because you didn't like his posting, and as I said, you had no way of knowing if this was his usual posting and thus the vote was NOT a vote on who you thought was scummy, even though now you seem to be trying to indicate that it was.
I do not like your actions and I do not find this explanation from you satisfactory.
##Vote: milo109 To be fair to milo he has explained these contradictions and even conceded them. Since then I also haven't liked that he said he didn't find ritocky voting for him scummy yet in my mind that is the only (or at least the main) reason that he reads me as scummy, but again I am biased here. I also found his claim that Chocolate was unable to defend himself weird but VE was able to point that out before me. Saying he is unable to defend himself just makes no sense in any situation at all, even if he was afk at the time its forum mafia, he could come back and read it. Anyways, aside from milo the next person I was suspicious of (slight scum read on) is sicklucker. On sickluckerHis very first part I found suspect: On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote:
##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town Since I've not played with him I don't know how much he was joking or whatever, which I tried to clarify by asking if people had played with each other and what the tictock voting was about but really I didn't get a real explanation on the tictock vote imo, I guess he kind of hinted that TT annoyed him in another game, not sure. Aside from the vote though, the immediate "I am ok with policy voting until he proves hes town" was weird to me. I guess talking about policy voting is not that unusual but for one TT has been active enough for a policy vote based on activity to not apply and secondly I think just coming out and trying to push policy vote is weird. I just read it as SL being ok with just voting on policy instead of hunting for scum. The fact that his vote remains on TT and he hasn't pushed anyone for information or anything just adds to my suspicion that he would rather vote based on policy than hunt for actual scum. My other main gripe is that he was quite active, but posting mostly one-liners with not much substance at all. He was clearly here the entire time at the start but didn't weigh in on what was going on, which I find weird since there was a lot of discussion happening. His only two posts sharing his thoughts were these: On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote:
I dont rly like kickstarter either. Way to tryhard for a first post for my liking. On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 07:37 Damdred wrote:
So, gut feeling is Milo stuff isn't as bad as it is being made out to,be. If you think,he's Scum Ok that's fine.
Don't tunnel him before he has tile to do anything else.
Answer me this why,can't his reasons be all he's said? Does town never contradict themselves? Are both these things only scum oriented I agree but its so unlike you to defend a person The first one is suspect because he doesn't like someone for being "too tryhard". How does that even make sense. Aside from it being me he is suspicious of, someone being "too tryhard" is actually good I would say. So that was weird. I guess his post directed at Damdred isn't as odd but even here he doesn't post any of his own thoughts, just says "I agree", he does say Damdred is doing something odd in defending another player. I do not know how true that statement is as I have not played with Damdred, maybe someone else can comment on if SL is correct here. TL:DR Top scum reads are milo and sicklucker atm (while im typing this I'm still checking the thread and milo just throwing "i Don't think you are town" at VE is funny too, but whatever). I don't really think town reads are important at this point, but I will just say who I get slight town reads from. Again though, this is just who I probably wouldn't vote on today as what they have done thus far doesn't indicate them being scummy to me, it doesn't mean I have them pegged as town and won't ever vote or pressure them. But so far I mostly like ritocky and VE. I know I was somewhat annoyed with ritocky's posting at the start but since then it has been fine, he has spurred a lot of discussion, asked good questions, and been forthright with his opinions and thoughts. VE has done the same as far as spurring discussion and being open with his thoughts, both of which I like and think are important. I think the fact that milo is new to forum mafia is giving me some reservations about how sure I can be that his actions indicate alignment, that said I still am suspicious of most of his actions thus far. Also my suspicions on sicklucker were addressed, tictock told me that my concerns about how sicklucker posted is actually typical of his posting, and that he posts like this as town, as with milo I still find it suspicious, but if this is his usual play (maybe someone other than just tictock can corroborate this) then it wouldn't be as suspicious. For now they would stay on my scum list but I am going to add another. GGTemplar is reading scum to me since he arrived in the thread and his overnight posting whilst I was asleep hasn't done anything to change this. On GGTemplarI announced my suspicions after he had only posted twice or so in these posts: On June 03 2015 10:03 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Also glad to see GGT has joined in now, but I must admit I don't find myself agreeing with any of his points and find his jump onto TT weird :/. I outlined above that I found SL scummy and he just goes "I think you are town", so to me that is weird; and I don't see what he sees on TT. On June 03 2015 10:10 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I second what TT is saying, to me GGs jump on him is so weird, almost as weird as his just giving SL a town read based on seemingly nothing. With that I would really want a more thorough explanation on both points from GG.
Also I think the only person who hasn't said anything at all so far is Onegu, which is quite good as far as activity goes from my past experiences. As long as Onegu and a few others give some detailed thoughts in this day period (main people I want to hear from at this point I guess are Onegu and fidei as they have given us the least to work with imo. I also want to hear more actual reads and opinions from SL, Damdred, and scott). First issue I took with GG is that he came in and posted "Hi I am townie" and then town read someone without actually reading through the thread. Town reading someone when you clearly haven't read through everything is odd to me. Here is the post in question where he town reads me: On June 03 2015 09:47 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:02 Kickstart wrote:I just want to go ahead and get this out. A good town environment is one in which no one is allowed to lurk or be passive and not post much of their thoughts. While I honestly don't know any of the players in this game I believe some are new so to them and to everyone else, you have to post. Whether you are 100% sure in your reads or not, posting is good for town. Even if your reads are wrong, being active is good for town to figure out the game. I refuse to allow the game to be a passive one where several people are lurking and not being active and contributing to the conversation because that automatically makes the game harder on town and lessens town's win chance. The 10 post per cycle rule enacted by the host is a good first step but I think it is up to us to make sure that people don't abuse the rule by just posting the minimum number of times and saying nothing of substance. Now what I said applies to every game of course, an active town is always better than a passive town with several lurkers; but I particularly wanted to lead in with this point because I already feel like we might be heading in the direction of a passive/inactive town. So this is directed to everyone but specifically directed @ Damdred and Tictock: Damdred and Tictock already posted before the start of the game that they might not be active. Here are Dam's and TT's posts I am referring to: Thankfully they have both said that they are just sort of busy at the start but will have more time and be more active. I just want to urge them both to be as active as they can from the start, that way everyone can gets reads on them and we don't let them both through just because they aren't active in the first phase but might be in the phases after. Just to be clear though, I am not accusing either of you nor am I suspicious of you for it, because those statements are clearly not alignment indicative because they were made before the game began and people had their roles. I am just saying that I refuse to allow the game to devolve into a passive town game with people lurking and posting nothing of substance and those events already have me worried that we may find ourselves in that position. So I urge you, along with everyone else, to be as active as you can, even if you are strapped for time. Now that that is out of the way, could those who have played in games with some of the other people in the game (or if you know them) tell me who the strong players? I haven't played mafia on here since 2012 so I have no idea who the good players are and I think knowing this is helpful. I know this request seems a bit scummy ("Oh you wan't to know who the good players are so you can get rid of them!") but I will just concede that and say that knowing who is good tells everyone that those players: a) should not be lurking because if they are good they are usually always active in their games (so if they are lurking and posting not much substance it will be suspicious), and, b) they would be valuable assets (so we should expect strong town play from them and we would expect mafia to try and get rid of them), both good pieces of information for town. That is all I have for now, get to posting and being active everyone! :D Hi I am town. Your name is very fitting ^_^ I am inclined to believe the general tone of your post is townie, even though you do repeat yourself a little bit. And then what makes me fairly sure that he did that without even reading through things is that he retracts his read on me shortly after based on things that were said almost immediatly: On June 03 2015 10:08 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:29 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:24 Kickstart wrote:On June 03 2015 06:10 Tictock wrote:
@ Kick
It has always been my policy to deal with inactives by reading their actual posts that much harder.
The idea is that if they are only willing to share a small amount of thoughts or thinking then we should take those posts even more literally/seriously. My point is that we need to foster an environment that doesn't allow inactivity, this is clearly the best environment to have and thus we should strive for it. How we will deal with people that are inactive anyways is another matter. Also people should, eventually, share most of their thoughts. Holding back your thoughts initially to build on them is fine, I already find some things scummy but I am waiting to add to this so as not to let the person/people I find scummy change what they are doing so soon. On June 03 2015 06:12 ritoky wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:02 Kickstart wrote:I just want to go ahead and get this out. A good town environment is one in which no one is allowed to lurk or be passive and not post much of their thoughts. While I honestly don't know any of the players in this game I believe some are new so to them and to everyone else, you have to post. Whether you are 100% sure in your reads or not, posting is good for town. Even if your reads are wrong, being active is good for town to figure out the game. I refuse to allow the game to be a passive one where several people are lurking and not being active and contributing to the conversation because that automatically makes the game harder on town and lessens town's win chance. The 10 post per cycle rule enacted by the host is a good first step but I think it is up to us to make sure that people don't abuse the rule by just posting the minimum number of times and saying nothing of substance. Now what I said applies to every game of course, an active town is always better than a passive town with several lurkers; but I particularly wanted to lead in with this point because I already feel like we might be heading in the direction of a passive/inactive town. So this is directed to everyone but specifically directed @ Damdred and Tictock: Damdred and Tictock already posted before the start of the game that they might not be active. Here are Dam's and TT's posts I am referring to: Thankfully they have both said that they are just sort of busy at the start but will have more time and be more active. I just want to urge them both to be as active as they can from the start, that way everyone can gets reads on them and we don't let them both through just because they aren't active in the first phase but might be in the phases after. Just to be clear though, I am not accusing either of you nor am I suspicious of you for it, because those statements are clearly not alignment indicative because they were made before the game began and people had their roles. I am just saying that I refuse to allow the game to devolve into a passive town game with people lurking and posting nothing of substance and those events already have me worried that we may find ourselves in that position. So I urge you, along with everyone else, to be as active as you can, even if you are strapped for time. Now that that is out of the way, could those who have played in games with some of the other people in the game (or if you know them) tell me who the strong players? I haven't played mafia on here since 2012 so I have no idea who the good players are and I think knowing this is helpful. I know this request seems a bit scummy ("Oh you wan't to know who the good players are so you can get rid of them!") but I will just concede that and say that knowing who is good tells everyone that those players: a) should not be lurking because if they are good they are usually always active in their games (so if they are lurking and posting not much substance it will be suspicious), and, b) they would be valuable assets (so we should expect strong town play from them and we would expect mafia to try and get rid of them), both good pieces of information for town. That is all I have for now, get to posting and being active everyone! :D saw good town environment, stopped reading. ![[image loading]](http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h38/mrcrapinson/GregFart.gif~original) Can you clarify please? I think you mean you basically eyerolled at my post at the second line and didn't bother reading it. Could you clarify what you meant, and in the future not post your thought in the form of GIFs and images? It was a long post made immediately after the day post, which means it was planned and probably planned regardless of alignment. It says nothing about your alignment and only about some bs intentions you plan to traffic cop about to appear like you're doing shit for the game. I don't really care about reading more than a paragraph because it won't teach me anything about your alignment. I will continue to post pictures, deal with it. I actually love the read in bold. It doesn't necessarily clear you as town but I am inclined to like you more for the honesty. I fully retract my read on Kickstart but after continuing to read ritoky's posting I just really want to say I believe he is town. He's just very forward and open about his thoughts in such a way that I believe would be very difficult and bold to do as a mafia. On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote:On June 03 2015 06:33 Kickstart wrote:
Well, those that have played with ritoky, is he always like this? I suppose if he always does this he has to keep up his 'meta', however annoying and unhelpful it happens to be.
Also, I could of had time after roles were sent to write up that post, but I will be honest and admit I didn't =]. I had to edit it a bit though because there was quite a bit going on before and while the game started. My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote:
Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ miloCan you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote:
I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote:
Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature:
##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote. I actually think your re-hashing what other people said much more concisely is scummy. I had the same initial thoughts with regards to 'annoying read' vs 'scum read' because as a general rule it is a scumtell, but something about the specific sentence structure of how he said it gave me like a 'townie vibe' as a new forum player for some reason. If you are town I encourage you to remember that while lurking is bad that being too drawn-out and repetitive in your posts is just as bad on the opposite extreme. I also found it weird that he says to me "I agree with everything you said but the way you say it makes you suspicious", I don't get that at all but I am probably biased as it is about me. Also note the trend of just saying everyone seems townie to him (that others have pointed out). Take a look through his filter and you will see that a large number of his posts are just him going "good point, I have a town read on you" to several people. The other issue I took with GGT was his immediate vote onto Ticktock which I didn't understand at all, here is his post throwing down his vote: On June 03 2015 09:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote:
##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town My gut tells me the specific diction you chose with regards to being 'morally' okay with it inclines me to believe you are townie. On June 03 2015 06:17 Tictock wrote:
In regards to kicks question.
I am pretty new to TL forums. Have played in 2 of the newbie games (the 2 most recent ones, including the ongoing one).
I see a few familiar names, but most of you I don't know... and am HIGHLY suspicious of...
And of course I know SL, who I may have to ignore. I apologize in advance if I start tunneling him, I have a tendency to do that. I think your intentional emphasis on the fact that you are 'HIGHLY' suspicious of people is scum-indicative. You are making sure we all know you are 'suspicious' of people, aka have imperfect information aka are town. A very roundabout and subtle way to go about telling people you are town. I think this is an excellent policy vote. ##Vote Tictock A silly vote in my mind masked by some bullshit about "policy vote", whole thing makes no sense to me. Not to mention that he is giving someone flack for something he deems as them 'hinting being town' as he says, when his very first post was "Hi I am town". I just don't see what he sees at all. I suppose I should know from ticktock if you guys have a history similar to that of yours and sicklucker. You were able to explain the sicklucker vote on you which I also found odd, but GGTs is even stranger to me, especially if he has no history with ticktock. This post I also don't like because ticktock was definatly stating an opinion that most of the thread held at that point in time but GGT makes the claim that TT is scummy for saying it. He also makes the claim that TT isn't being genuine and doesn't actually believe what he is saying (or that that is how TTs post appeared to him), I don't like that either. Last thing, while not much, is the classic pure list post that is completely void of content: On June 04 2015 00:44 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Town:
Nydus
sicklucker
Milo89
Fideu86
Mafia:
Kickstark
Tictock I have already expressed that I don't like either of his "scum reads", if they can be called that. But what is stranger to me is the town list because again, a look through his filter will show that he has called several people townie, some of whom aren't even on the list (ritocky), and others who are on this list he hasn't even said anything about (milo, fideu). Given that I have some reservations about my previous scum reads, as I have outlined, I think now I feel that the order of most scummy is GGT, followed by milo and then sicklucker. Even though I still find milo and sicklucker suspicious for all the reasons I stated, I think GGT is far more likely to be scum at this point in time, and thus, my vote goes on him for now. ##Unvote
##Vote: GGTeMpLaRIf you could, I would like for you to explain your list post more GGT, specifically the town reads you've put on there when you didn't even mention those people or interact with them at all before. Would also like to know if you still find tictock and myself suspicious, if not then who, if so then why? Got to run for now, took me way longer than I expected to make this post and I'm probably going to be late for my appointment! Be back in like 90 minutes or so!
On June 05 2015 04:22 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Well I am back, took me a bit to reread through the thread. :waves at Damdred:. Don't like Damdred railing on me at all and I still don't think he has given us what he promised earlier in the day, but I will save that for cycle 2.
Don't know how much time we have so I will make this quick, I actually really like GGT's posting and defense recently, and on the complete opposite end I think Chocolate's has been just terrible. It doesn't seem like there will be enough support for a milo vote, and I agree that while SL does seem off, there should be enough information to work with to go for someone else at the moment. I would just like to say that I don't like Onegus posting either, but I asked about it and everyone who has played with him tells me that this is normal from him, so I won't vote him today but if he continues like this I would never allow it to get towards the end of the game if this is all his posting is like. Also wan't to note that my two town reads are both on Chocolate, and that chocolate has put his vote on Onegu which will tell us nothing, which I find odd.
I posted my initial concerns on him earlier and like I said his defense of himself has not been good at all, I can explain more later if necessary.
##Unvote
##Vote: Chocolate
None of that is 'rehashed' in my opinion, nor is my sl read 'contrived, I was the first to point it out and inquire about his posting imo.
3. I explained my ritocky and VE town reads several times, but again since you aren't reading my filter I'll explain just for you. They have driven discussion, put on pressure where I felt it was applicable, and have been open with their thoughts. My Nydus post was an admitted mistake, I explained that as well: people were putting pressure on me because I was like one of four people who were actually there at the time, I didn't handle it well and felt obligated to give more than what I had. This was a mistake from me and I rescinded what I said, nothing more I can do about it.
4. I'm fighting with you because I feel that you are either not reading what I am saying or are blatantly lying, as detailed above. I have also explained that I am taking you at your word and giving you time to give strong reads, so far you are making me doubt my decision.
5. Im talking to you like misguided town or mafia because that is what I think you are.
6. Only thing I can be remotely considered sheeping is a Chocolate vote, but I have no idea how much time is left so wanted to get it in and then could discuss it. All my other thoughts I have been first or at least second in my opinion, and even if not you can hardly say I've been sheeping.
So imo the only thing you say about me that is true is that I am a bit long winded, which is just how I play so get over it.
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EPT
